Russian parliament approves sending troops to Ukraine

Hitler sent in the troops to "protect" the ethnic Germans living in the Sudetenland. Now Putin is sending in troops to "protect" ethnic Russians.

History does repeat itself!
(Ian, UK, 1 March 2014 17:25)
======================
Putin is sending in troopes to protect his own people, the Russians, what was America doing sending in planes to bomb Belgrade?

This is on par with Nazi Germany sending in troops to the Sudetenland in 1938.

Hitler sent in the troops to "protect" the ethnic Germans living in the Sudetenland. Now Putin is sending in troops to "protect" ethnic Russians.

History does repeat itself!

Great news. To Rote and any other Russians who may be reading this, good luck and may God be with you! Serbia is behind you, please go and start the reversal in Ukraine, get rid of the fascists in power, and restore democracy. I love seeing the Russian people rising up to defend their people. It is inspiring, and Vladimir Putin is definitely the leader of the free world. Samo napred !!
Cheers!!

History does repeat itself!
(Ian, UK, 1 2014 17:25)
--
Poor Ian, the problem being that the NAZI supporters are in western Ukraine and Germany is supporting them. They have already torn down statues erected to celebrate the victory over Nazism. Your spin is pathetic. Russia is protecting its own people. It will not interfere with western Ukraine. The west can have it along with the many hungry mouths to feed.

There are Russian citizens who are under threat from right wing skin heads who idolize Hitler! Putin is doing what he was voted to do and that is to protect his people, i mean its no different from the Falklands war is it when Britain sent troops in?! Typical hypocritical Brit!

You’re a sick man if you offer Russia the Nazi role. Russia has once almost alone destroyed the Nazi and now we are decisive enough to refrain. For your information the Maidan people every day greet each other with “Heil” shouts and hang around Kiev hundreds of pictures of Stefan Bendera , Roman Shuhevich and other Waffen SS and Abwher officers. By the way Adolf Hitler personally awarded Bendera with the Iron Cross Order. Earlier in 1939 the Germans had set him free from a Warsaw prison. Ask Peter Sudyka about the people mentioned. He will tell you how many thousands of Poles mostly women and children they killed in Volin Region in 1943. Be ready he will say something between 80 000 and 250 000. Ask also the Jews who killed 35 000 of the Jews in Babi Yar ect. Then ask yourself if you are just an idiot or a finished moron !

PS Don’t deceive yourself that we’ll be satisfied with Crimea only coz half of the Ukraine is on the stake. We’ve warned you many times that Kosovo may become a precedent. But clonus all over Europe were not only deaf and blind but also blunt enough to obey their overseas master. So nobody cares what those castrated sheep thinks today with their sheep brains.

Amazing how the quislings in the west talk a good fight but are powerless to take on the Russians be they right or wrong.If the ethnic majority areas of any country want to secede they can by all means necessary. if it was ok for the albanians in kosovo its set a precedent elsewhere. scotland go for it.

Russians and Serbs are brothers!
Please do not forejudge Russia!

No Ian this is tantamount to NATO (including the poodle UK) sending in troops to Kosovo to protect the "populace" except the Serbs, of course, who NATO helped ethnically cleanse. And so according to NATO's past actions, the Russians would be entitled to drive out the disloyal Tartars. Except Russia is not as barbaric as NATO war criminals.

Ian

the supporter of fascists in Ukraine, oh how the dead British of WWII must be turning in their graves now seeing their government support the Ukrainian NAZIS just so they can have a poke at Russia. You betray the memory of the millions who died at the hands of the fascists including your own countrymen. Britain has truly lost its way.

Oh yes, I.ve forgotten that it is America's exclusive And only right to protect their folk in Syria, Irak, Lybia...

Nazis are your politicians and army generals responsible for their genocide in Iraq and ths thousands they killed in Libya and Afganistan
Hold your head in shame you rightewing biggot.

It was Ukraine that started hostilities, now they will have to pay for poking the bear. Long live Russia! Long live Bulgaria! Long live Serbia!

Gunmen from Kiev attempted to seize Crimea's Interior Ministry overnight - Russia
Published time: March 01, 2014 09:13
http://rt.com/news/russia-crimea-sieze-gunmen-344/

It's funny how one can easily become the very thing they supposedly hate.

Yes, yes, you're regurgitating the right wing hate speeches from the Russian government owned/ sponsored media which says that Ukrainians and Euromaiden are all "fascists" because the Right Sector & a small minority of Svoboda (who themselves are a small minority of Euromaiden) admire Stepan Bandera. Oh & one bloke threw a Molotov cocktail in the general direction of a Synagogue, which according to Russian media means that Euromaiden is "anti-semitic". It would be laughable if the Kremlin weren't so serious about this propaganda. Well Batkivshchyna & UDAR are liberal conservatives & liberals (the main force behind Euromaiden); they aren't "fascists" like the Russian media would like you to believe.

Who are the real "fascists"? The ones who overthrew a right wing nationalist foreign occupation, or the one with the little right wing nationalist with no regards to civil liberties and oppressed with territorial expansist colonialism?

With the inevitable Russian invasion where thousands of Ukranians and Crimean Tatars will die, who is supposedly being "protected"? According to Russian/ Putinist media, it is the ethnic Russians who need "protecting"; but it is the Ukrainians & Tatars who are being beaten up and murdered. But somehow, I don't think the Russian forces want to "protect" them? Do you?

What if Putin bit more than he can chew?!

What if Putin bit more than he can chew?!
(cry me a river, 2 March 2014 00:20)

Doubt that, loud minorities don't talk for the majority. Russia has much support, do not be fooled thinking this is an east vs west Ukraine battle. Many Ukrainians in the centre and east are partial to assimilating with slav brothers more than many think.

http://dy1m18dp41gup.cloudfront.net/cdn/farfuture/qilyua3fl5uV0gFdE_K9_kneUR-agdLp5UQ5Dm31myE/mtime:1391567627/files/Map%20of%20langues.jpg

Also the GDP, industry and famed black earth is located in the Eastern half, the far east of the country is generally economically backward and offers nothing.

http://ukrmap.su/program2010/g8/g8_26_files/image008.gif


Russia can easily take the whole of Ukraine back in a formal commonwealth if it chooses to preserve it's integrity, provides for it's security, rids corruptive politicians to the same level as western European counterparts and assist in destroying extreme nationalists and their warpath of cleansing Ukraine of any (what they deem) foreign cultural elements.

Ukranians know money, good life and a meal on the table speaks louder than ultra nationalism.

Already the Ukranian naval flagship has deserted the illegitimate Ukraine government and is flying the Russian naval flag in support of the legitimate government. The Chinese are threatening also to withdraw 8 billion in pledges and loans as a result of instability.

Way to go Ukranian ultra-nationalists.

Putin, the new Milosevic. Last I checked, Ukraine was a sovereign nation, with defined borders. How would Putin react if other nations invaded Russia to protect its minorities. This is a blantant breach of international law. Let's see how the West reponds.

Not the same thing Ian. There was no governmet take over in Czechoslovakia when the Nazis invaded

Ian

Maybe Russia and Russians are preventing what happened to them during WWII I mean you did say history repeats its self! I mean after all the president was democratically elected then western backed NGOS and other anti Russian opposition protested and rioted and was deemed by western media as freedom fighters and martyrs! Where have we heard that before?! Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan in the 80s, Libya, Bosnia and Kosovo?! But yet when Russians in Ukraine are moving to defend themselves its classed as armed men not simply people protecting themselves you cant have double standards... Pretty much what Serbia did in 90s we defended ourselves and we was labeled all kinds of things and for what not wanting to be controlled a government that idolized fascism that was responsible for over 500,000 Serbs in WWII?! I mean if you want to meet me in Halifax sometime i ll easily tell you my families history i mean i must be here for a reason and its not a good one is it?! By the way did you know a lot of Tartars and Ukrainians killed a lot of Russians in WWII! People don't give and forget do they i mean look at Ireland and the IRA!

The 'Nazi' comments are being made here to push a propaganda stance - I think the democratic voice of Ukrainian people is being belittled because of Serb Nationalist bigotry and not because of any really intelligent comment about the reality for the people of Ukraine. I am sure that Ukrainians will not love Serbs if they are being accused of being 'Nazi' when they try to assert their democratic voice and it is stomped on by Putin.

The Russian 'brothers' stance is also nonsense - Croats are more Serbia's brothers in terms of DNA than are the Russians. Why not praise them for their brilliant support :-) ?

Ukraine needs to sort itself out - there is no ethnic cleansing like in Bosnia and Kosovo. It doesn't need the Russian boot. Putin has shown his colours - he is not to be respected for this opportunism. He has about the same level of diplomatic IQ that was displayed by Milosevic - approximately zero. He has taken a chance to invade. He won't leave. Time to reenter a cold war?

Right on, Ian, only Putin will have this action crack on his head a lot sooner than it did Hitler's.

A range of comments, dragging up a lot of history.Perhaps it's worth appraising the situation in 2014 Ukraine and Crimea without throwing around cliches like fascism, Nazis, Stalin and other dated cold war rhetoric.Maybe its a country with two polarised opinions and neither is actually wrong. Time for a bit of diplomacy.

The EU looks a little silly talking about Ukranian Sovergnty after two decades of ignoring Serbia's soverngnty. That is the trouble with abandoning the law, you can't rely on it only when it conveniences you. In any case I pray for peace and lawful order.

The west talks of sovereignty, borders etc, but the same West allowed Kosovo separatism. Ok they said it was a one off. However in practical terms it opens up the gates to others. we in the west have backed a coup but now there is a counter coup or a coup within a coup. I think this is going to get very messey, I wouldn't be suprised if some pro Russian members of the Ukraine armed forces start to defect. A big problem with the west is it's in ability to act. I persoanlly hope the UK keeps out of it. By the way Ian UK does not speak for all Brits.

That could be WW III. The last one.

Andy UK.
I fully agree. All should excerscise restraint in this situation, and try to reduce tensions.

The strange thing is that nobody is supporting Russia in this adventure... Not even Serbia, Russia's strongest ally. I'm sure Russia will remember this betrayal from the Serbia "brothers"

It's funny how one can easily become the very thing they supposedly hate.

Yes, you're regurgitating the right wing hate speeches from the Russian government owned/ sponsored media which says that Ukrainians and Euromaiden are all "fascists" because the Right Sector and a small minority of Svoboda (who are a small minority of Euromaiden) admire Stepan Bandera. Oh and one bloke threw a Molotov cocktail in the general direction of a Synagogue, which according to Russian media means that Euromaiden is "anti-sematic". It I'd be laughable if the Kremlin weren't so serious about this propaganda. Well Batkivshchyna and UDAR are liberal conservatives and liberals (the main force behind Euromaiden), not fascists are Russian media has brainwashed you.

Who are the real "fascists"? The ones who overthrew a right wing nationalist foreign occupation, or the one with the little right wing nationalist with no regards to civil liberties is oppressed with territorial expansion colonialism? The Greater Russian Reich?

With the inevitable Russian invasion where thousands of Ukranians and Crimean Tatars will die, who is supposedly being "protected"? According to Russian/ Putinist media, it is the ethnic Russians who need "protecting"; but it is the Ukrainians and Tatars who are being beaten up and murdered. But somehow, I don't think the Russian forces want to "protect" them? Do you?

I'll end this comment with one statement: Ukraine isn't Georgia, Ukraine is much bigger than Georgia!

I fear that maintaining Ukraine's territorial integrity when it is made up in part of other peoples' land and has a massive non-Ukrainian minority is just not possible. A military intervention by NATO would be an act of aggression and Russia is in the fortunate position of having the right to defend his citizens that may come under harm.

What needs to be done is a definite mutual agreement of sphere of influence in Ukraine, as in until where is Russia's sphere and where is the West's sphere.

Sadly, the people that will get hit hardest are the Western Ukrainians. That part is too big and too poor to be able to stand on its own two legs, is underdeveloped and will doubtfully be offered the EU integration (expansion fatigue) that they were fighting for. I see another poor black hole in Eastern Europe, like a much larger South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transdniester or Kosovo, except without the support of one of the large powers like all of the latter do, to some degree.

The Eastern part is fortunate enough to be supported by Russia (whose economy is in good shape and growing), so they will come off better.

My heart goes out to those poor Western Ukrainians. All they wanted was a better government and better life. Now, I fear they will come off worse than before the rebellion. I know people here shout "fascists!" when it comes to them (and trust me, as a Pole I wish for all Banderists to burn in hell!), but most of them are just normal people like you or me.

The Putin lovers here deserve Putin, could not agree with you more Ian. Always enjoy popping into this site to see what the fascists are supporting now. Who is the fool below who says that Putin is leader of the free world? I would laugh if it didnt scare me that most of the people here believe that. With their inflexible and myopic world view. The west is 100% evil. Anyone who is Anti west is 100% good. That Said seeing these posters have half a brain call between them, at least it is simple. And let me say it, not all Serbia has behaved like innocent angels all the time have they? Oh don't look so shocked. World is a complex place. Deal with it.

>>> Putin, the new Milosevic.
(winston, 2 March 2014 20:02)

Nope. Most important: Ludmila Putina is NOT Mira Markovic! Any doubts, who's the boss in the Putin family?


>>>Last I checked, Ukraine was a sovereign nation, with defined borders. How would Putin react if other nations invaded Russia to protect its minorities. This is a blantant breach of international law. Let's see how the West responds.
(winston, 2 March 2014 20:02)


Last I checked, Yugoslavia was a sovereign nation, with defined borders. How would Milosevic react if other nations invaded Yugoslavia to protect its minorities. This is a blantant breach of international law. Let's see how Yeltsin responds.

To those of you brainwashed sheep who believe in 'American Exceptionalism', ie. that the US can invade who it wants whenever it wants, give support to neo-Nazis or jhiadists and not have to obey any international laws or answer any questions....
http://disinfo.com/2014/03/jeremy-scahill-one-party-state-war-party/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
This is why Vladimir Putin is the leader of the free world. He doesn't invade countries to prop up profits for the military industrial complex which controls the US, or because some arms lobbyist twisted his arm to do so. He does it to defend his people when they come under real danger, such as in Georgia and now Ukraine.
Cheers!!

Its always dirty politics and tactics from Russia.Its hard being neighbor to Russia or Serbia.

Is it any surprise many commenters on here are on Putin's side? What Putin is doing to Ukraine is what Milosovic was doing to Croatia. On differnece is hopefully this will not escelate to violnce as it did in the 90s.

"The 'Nazi' comments are being made here to push a propaganda stance - I think the democratic voice of Ukrainian people is being belittled because of Serb Nationalist bigotry and not because of any really intelligent comment about the reality for the people of Ukraine."
(Bob, 2 March 2014 19:59)

Yes, it always amazes me when Serbs yelling 'Nazi', though they probably have more right wing parties and other national extremists in their own country than in Germany and probably Ukraine, too.

Maybe they simply don't know that 'Nazi' doesn't translate to 'German', but means 'national socialists'?

Time will tell, maybe it was not so bad that Russia invaded parts of Ukraine right on time tom protect a threatened ethnic minority? Maybe this should have done in Serbia when Milosevic started to ban Albanian language in universities in Kosovo, to discriminate ethnic Albanians and coming up with his nationalist hate speeches? Who knows, maybe some war could have been avoided? The only problem was that Albania cannot compared to Russia with his military force.

My heart goes out to those poor Western Ukrainians. All they wanted was a better government and better life. Now, I fear they will come off worse than before the rebellion. I know people here shout "fascists!" when it comes to them (and trust me, as a Pole I wish for all Banderists to burn in hell!), but most of them are just normal people like you or me.
(Peter Sudyka, 2 March 2014 13:41)

I think you are right. Same applies to the Russian population in the Russian-speaking regions.

But Banderists are much stronger than I did expect. The proof is not very much mentioned in the West - except in Hungary.

One of the first acts the new government in Kiev did was to abolish the minority languages. Was done by "banderists" with Russians in mind... but the Hungarians took the hit:

http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140224_Visszavontak_a_nyelvtorvenyt_Karpataljan
http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140227_Sikorski_hiba_volt_a_nyelvtorveny_eltorle
http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140223_Ne_szukitsek_az_ukrajnai_magyarok_jogait

http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140223_Ne_szukitsek_az_ukrajnai_magyarok_jogait

Banderist hooligans in Beregovo, anti-Hungarian action of some "democrats":

http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140225_Beregszaszi_eroszak_megszolalt_a_magyar_k

And the official Hungarian media (radio Kossuth) called the Maidan-people "terrorists".

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20140221_Bajnai_nem_hitte_el_amig_nem_hallotta_a_K

"a rendvédelmi erõk megkezdték a terroristák felkutatását és ártalmatlanná tételét"

...This is why Vladimir Putin is the leader of the free world...
(Dragan, 3 March 2014 15:50)

I advice you to stop, whatever you are smoking.It's bad for your brain.

How's this any different to what the America does all the time to some other country? They're always sending troops to bomb something or kill someone. Military personnel in 130 nations and over 900 overseas military bases? That's not ''peacekeeping'' folks, that's an empire. So lay off the Russians as it's grossly hypocritical.

I am fascinated by the fixation of many in Serbia with Putin and their desire for a leader like him. True, I agree with much (though not all) of the criticism of the West full of hypocrisy, division and weakness. I generally agree that the Ukraine crisis was in part due to Ashton. The West keeps calling bluff and it is getting a bit embarrassing... By the way, many reader comments in Westen news media are more critical of the West than Russia. But at least that is allowed, unlikely in Putin's Russia. back to my point. Corruption is everywhere in different forms. Serbia has been trying to clean this up a bit. Putin and his cronies would seem to be the worst state thieves of anywhere. Yet many Serbs idolise him. OK he wants to look, tough, macho, topless, and these adoring Serbs like the strong leader. Hard for me to get it but OK, i can go with it. Stop portraying this uber criminal as a hero. The Wet is weak, divided, imperfect, hypocritical etc. But not fascists in the true sense of the time. And before you start to go off on one again, look up fascism. And I am not saying that these people in Serbia should supported and com plemenit the West. Just don't hero worship this guy and what he represents. Is he truly a brother in Orthodoxy, carine for Serbia in his heart. Or is he just a smart, realist geopolitical player, who sees opportunities to provoke his enemy, just as his enemies seek to provoke him? My guess is this last one. Stop lusting after him.

Not the same thing Ian. There was no governmet take over in Czechoslovakia when the Nazis invaded
(Sam D, 1 March 2014 19:23)

The Polish and Cze-slovak governments were regarded as "Anti-German" while Hitler claimed that he was protecting German rights. So absolutely the same words which Putin and Russia use today.

Btw. why Russia did not "protect" his citizens in Estonia when it came to the war memorial? Wetting pants because of NATO?

Well, looks like that NATO has a reason. And Ukraine should start re-building his nuclear arsenal. Russia anyway vioded the treaty when invading Crimea.

Putin is sending in troopes to protect his own people, the Russians, what was America doing sending in planes to bomb Belgrade?
(Peggy, 1 March 2014 22:56)
Putin sent in troops to "protect" Russians although no threat had yet materialized. US sent in its forces to stop a slaughter already in process.

The strange thing is that nobody is supporting Russia in this adventure... Not even Serbia, Russia's strongest ally. I'm sure Russia will remember this betrayal from the Serbia "brothers"
(icj1, 2 March 2014 15:00)
==============================
You have totally lost it.

Putin sent in troops to "protect" Russians although no threat had yet materialized. US sent in its forces to stop a slaughter already in process.
(a New Day, 2 March 2014 14:16)
==============================
You Albanans are all playing smart arases.
You know very well that Ukraine was going to send their own troops there to squash any Russian supporters. It was only a matter of time.
Why wait for slaughter?
Now, you also know that the "slaughter" was not happening unless you count the slaugher of Serbs for their organs.

The hysteria and hypocrisy of the NATO stooges is comical. Russia is simply engaging in a "humanitarian" intervention. Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are in danger and Russia is simply saving lives, as requested by the populations of these regions. This is more legitimate than the pro-jihadist interventions by NATO war criminals in Bosnia and Kosovo or for the sodomite Nazis now in Kiev. God bless Orthodox Russia.

Oh and one bloke threw a Molotov cocktail in the general direction of a Synagogue, which according to Russian media means that Euromaiden is "anti-sematic"
(Ian, UK, 2 March 2014 01:24)

Aha, and "few" more blokes stormed the municipal building in Beregszász / Beregovo on the Ukrainian / Hungarian border.

http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140225_Beregszaszi_eroszak_megszolalt_a_magyar_k

In that city NO ONE, again NO ONE, not a single soul does speak Ukrainian. The minority of the population is Russian, the majority is Hungarian. They get along OK with each other, the (usual) issue is the relatively poor Roma minority - but they tend to be underdogs and their self-consciousness is on a very low scale.

Than out of sudden the municipality building is being stormed by banderists, total outsiders. They have nothing to do with Beregszász / Beregovo.

So as far as I understand you, if one Serbian bloke goes postal in Kosovo, than Belgrade should be bombed ("just in case"). If one Ukrainian bloke goes postal on a Synagogue, than Moscow should be bombed - and ("just in case") Belgrade, too. Won't work that way.

Peter Sudyka

“to be split by greedy imperialist powers”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism

What signs of imperialism can you see in Russia ? In what part of the world ? Peter you are always reasonable before it comes to Russia. Then you start to hint us that “Cartagena must be destroyed”. You are not a low educated Albanian taxist from Pristina not to know that those are Russian lands and those are Russian people that are discriminated in this country for 24 years. You also know that the Ukrainian nation as well as the language had artificially been created by the Austrians and partly by the Poles. You also know that half of this state has nothing to do even with this artificial nation torn apart from the Russian world. Piece by piece it was composed of the Russian , Polish, Moldavian, Romanian , Slovak and Hungarian lands. Gallitzin people can merely be called Ukrainians as they lost contact with the Orthodox world 500 years ago. But as I had told you we need only 12 pure Russian regions. Neither do we ask for the rest of the Russian lands. Only those who shout and cry for being home to mainland Russia. So how dare you call us a “greedy imperialist power” ! I guess Ukraine is idea-fix not only of the two Z.Brzezinskies but of all the Poles. It must be the biggest figure on the Great Chess Desk but if you succeed your overseas master will need you even less than today. Just because there will be no more demand for Russophobia.

Russia is the aggressor and we see that we - the West - used way to much appeasement towards Russia and her quissilings. It is time to step up and show Putin that he overstreched, by removing all Russian influence in the Middle East and Balkans (Serbia, Southstream).

Putin, the new Clinton. Last I checked, Serbia was a sovereign nation, with defined borders. How would Clinton react if other nations invaded the US to protect its minorities. This is a blantant breach of international law. Let's see how the West reponds.
(winston, 2 March 2014 20:02)
========================
You see, I just changed a few words and it's obvious how the US has done worse. Russia is protecting their own people in Ukraine. What was the US protecting? Oh, yes, Camp Bondsteel idea.

That could be WW III. The last one.
(adrian.timisoara.romania, 2 March 2014 00:02)

Typical little eichmans' response--soiling themselves and already planning under which color of rock to crawl under until the coast is clear.

Speaking of coasts, I am starting to get a more pronounced whiff of that Croat Ustasha seacoast.
Is it my imagination, or are the times really changin' this time? If not--THEY WILL--sooner or later.
Check out this newest short film with Dylan's lyrics in the background: "Who is Crying Over There???" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7K28ZJS-Ic

I have said it before that when China and Russia were ready they will make their moves and it looks like they are ready. What will the EU, US or even NATO do over Ukraine? Nothing at all. It’s very easy to attack small nations like school yard bullies, but it’s another thing to fight someone who can bloody your nose.
It’s so amusing to watch the hand wringing, the hollow threats of isolation from Washington, as if they could isolate Russia or China. In the hall ways of NATO the only arguments going on is who lost the cork bottle opener because that’s all they can do. If you think for a moment that NATO would not take action if it could then stop dreaming. If it had the capacity it would take on Russia, but the wars in Afghanistan have finished off NATO as a serious contender and now it’s only good for debating situations.
A far right winged radio commentator in Sydney was talking about this situation in the Ukraine this morning and when he mentioned the US his statement was “they are totally bloody useless and the EU is not much better”.
What does Russia’s taking of Crimea mean? It will control all the black sea and have unrestricted access to the Danube as well.
Why doesn’t Serbia openly support Russia? They are a very small nation and currently ruled by weak boot licking politicians, but all this will change as a new master takes over Europe and don’t be fooled they are taking over.

Sadly, the people that will get hit hardest are the Western Ukrainians. That part is too big and too poor to be able to stand on its own two legs, is underdeveloped and will doubtfully be offered the EU integration (expansion fatigue) that they were fighting for. I see another poor black hole in Eastern Europe, like a much larger South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transdniester or Kosovo, except without the support of one of the large powers like all of the latter do, to some degree.

The Eastern part is fortunate enough to be supported by Russia (whose economy is in good shape and growing), so they will come off better.
(Peter Sudyka, 2 March 2014 13:41)

haha...if that split East-West were to happen, 50 years from now the Est will be like North Korea (supported by Russia) and the West will be like South Korea (supported by the West). But I'm sure Serb patriots would still tell us that everybody (except, of course, Serb patriots themselves) should be happy to live in North Korea, just for the sake of patriotism:)

I can't believe Russia has invaded a sovereign country on the pretext of preventing a humanitarian disaster! How would they like it if the USA and NATO would invade a sovereign country like Serbia and setup military bases in one of its provinces! Oh wait...

PS Don’t deceive yourself that we’ll be satisfied with Crimea only coz half of the Ukraine is on the stake. We’ve warned you many times that Kosovo may become a precedent. But clonus all over Europe were not only deaf and blind but also blunt enough to obey their overseas master. So nobody cares what those castrated sheep thinks today with their sheep brains.
(rote, 1 March 2014 20:19)


rote,

How easily you forget what happened to the Russian troops that tried to take over the airport outside Prishtina, Kosova in 1999. They were begging KFOR for food after a few days of being surrounded by NATO military. After being humiliated they were sent home to Russia with bruises to prove the failure of their misadventure. This time the Russians will not be so lucky for invading the Ukraine. It is a move of desperation on the part of Putin, as he is, in fact, showing weakness. He will live to regret this fascist act of aggression on a sovereign country. This belligerent action will result in Russia being punished with economic sanctions and being expelled from the G8. Putin and his cronies will have their personal assets frozen in Western banks. This foolish act, by a little angry man, will isolate Russia and set her back twenty years. Finally, the emperor will be shown not to wear any clothes.

Its laughable reading the same comments from many of the same commenters with no proper education in history and blindly throwing out labels of "Hitler" and "Fascism" on the Russian minority in Ukraine protecting key strategic interests of Russia.

Hitler invaded the Sudetenland in 1938 does not have any parallels to the events in the Ukraine. Prime Minister Benes and all of Czechoslovakia was fully united in the condemnation of the invasion and Hitler’s Ultimatum to protect the "German Minority" a small proportion influenced by the Nazi's did rebel. Betrayed by France and England, all Benes could do is watch his country fall as the Nazi's invaded and later the Hungarians who took other pieces.

Today's Ukraine was a Coup d’état supported by Ukrainian fascists who undemocratically took control of the Country with a large Russian minority. The entire country of Ukraine is not united in condemnation of the so called Russian aggression to protect its national interest.

I encourage so called historical commenters as a start to read William Shirer, the fall and Rise of the Third Reich, the best account of the Nazi regime.

Once again the CIA and friends at thier best trying to isolate the Russians.
First in Checheyna - failed
Georgia - Failed
Syria - Failed
Ukraine another likely fail.
How they wish that drunken Yelstin was still in power.

I pray for peace between Orthodox brothers. I do not celebrate the overthrow of an elected government by facists, but I do not want an invasion either. That would be trading tyrany for foriegn occupation. Today is the Sunday of Forgiveness and this week is the begining of Great Lent. Let us pray to God and beg for the intercesion of Saints Cyril and Methodius.


Troparion — Tone 4

Divinely-wise Cyril and Methodius, / equals-to-the-apostles and teachers of the Slavs, / entreat the Master of all / to strengthen all nations in Orthodoxy and unity of mind, / to grant peace to the world and to save our souls.
Kontakion — Tone 3

Let us honor the sacred pair, who translated divine scripture / pouring forth a fountain of divine knowledge from which we still draw today. / Now as you stand before the throne of the Most-high / we call you blessed, Cyril and Methodius, / as you fervently pray for our souls.

I'm 100% Serbian and I back Putin 100%

Putin is sending in troopes to protect his own people
(Peggy, 1 March 2014 22:56)

protect his own people from what, dear? From Putin himself. The only Russians whose human rights were violated so far were those protesting in Moscow against Russia starting a war in Ukraine! Those Russians surely need protection.

Russia can easily take the whole of Ukraine back in a formal commonwealth
(Omega, 2 March 2014 16:55)

No doubt about that, but there is a small problem that Ukrainians don't want that, because that commonwealth could bring everything except for wealth. But I'm sure Russia is strong enough to force Ukrainians to love Russia - that's the only way Russia can achieve it!

Ukrainian ultra-nationalists have caused intolerance and their intentions are very well known with such greatest top hits as, introducing criminal penalties for their version of Ukrainophobia, ensure within 3 months Ukraine becomes a nuclear armed power, unlawful and unconstitutional 5 minute process to usurp the presidency and a few others below,

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/120329/ukraine-svoboda-nationalist-party-nazi-echoes-hitler-pt-2

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/02/24/Ukraine-Appoints-New-Posts-in-Government-Includes-Controversial-Svoboda-Party

Not propaganda but fact, some are too quick to be dismissive, but, where does that leave them.

Genetic/DNA comparisons are also useless, as the distinguishing ethnic marker between Croats and Serbs is their adherence to which faith they profess. Many Croats of South Dalmatia have often been referred to as Catholic Serbs by themselves and historical texts. Orthodox Ukrainians have also intermixed to a huge extent with Russians in the center, east, north and south whilst the far western Ukrainians are intermixed with Catholic Poles, Lithuanians etc. Forget the DNA. Consistent polls of Ukrainians show that between 2/3 to 90% have a positive opinion on Russia.


Correction on my previous post, it is the economically backward far west Ukraine.

The strange thing is that nobody is supporting Russia in this adventure... Not even Serbia, Russia's strongest ally. I'm sure Russia will remember this betrayal from the Serbia "brothers"
(icj1, 2 March 2014 15:00)
===…==
You have totally lost it.
(Peggy, 2 March 2014 20:58)

Why you have secret information that Serbia will support Russia's cause :) Waiting impatiently for that to happen. It would be the greatest news for Kosovo haha

No, it's not that simple and not a good comparison. South Korea has an open market and close economic trade links with US, Japan and China, while North Korea is totally isolated from everyone, including Russia and China. All they have is their brand of communist isolationism and as a result, are what they are: a completely failed state, while South Korea is an economic powerhouse.

In the case of the Ukraine, it is different in that the East has the largest share of the major infrastructure (heavy industry, coastline/ports and a great deal of the agriculture), while the West really only has Kiev. Of course, the West is not totally helpless, but the disparity is big and in the case of a split, the Eastern part of the Ukraine will not be as hit as the Western part, who will be a charity case for the West and not integrated into the EU for MANY years.

While I wish all the best for Ukraine as a whole country and not one to be split by greedy imperialist powers, I fear the worst.
(Peter Sudyka, 3 March 2014 10:48)

Sure, sure.... Even if the Est of Ukraine is such a paradise, I'm sure Russia will make it look like.... well, Russia in a few years :)

Sorry, but can't accept the thanks because I did not offer any insight. Indeed it's impossible for anybody to offer any insight to the statement that flying the flag of country A shows support for the government of country B! Still waiting for your insights on that incoherent statement :)
(icj1, 3 March 2014 14:11)

Well, no insight your aware of. We are talking military flags just so you don't get off track.

The pilots of the 303 squadron fought with the British roundel yet took an oath to the legitimate Polish government. They took an oath to King George as well and later flew Polish roundels. Sometimes both at the same time.

Australian Navy fought and displayed St George's ensign till 1967 (that's the British naval flag). They had their own National flag and independent government in 1901.

Is it impossible they didn't have loyalty or support to either one of A: UK or B: Australia?

(The Count of Kosova, 3 March 2014 04:13)

That was 1999, today is 2014 and how the times have changed. Where is NATO now? As I said before the only discussions going in the corridors of NATO is who lost the cork screw bottle opener and nothing else. Yes, finally the US emperor has been shown as having no cloths as I have been saying for years – it’s broke as evident with the laughable offer to Ukraine of $1 billion in loans – yes only $1billion from the world’s biggest windbag. John Kerry went to Ukraine and offered hot air, but no military assistance. Why? When your in the process of closing bases …..money is an issue.
Let’s look at reality mate. As Russia supplies Europe with energy the EU should immediately cut off the gas to show Putin the errors of his ways? You have been smoking too much hooch if you think that is going to happen. The Germans are undermining any US efforts, as meagre as they are, of trying “to punish” Russia.
Here is another piece of very bad news lads, Russia now controls the Black Sea and entrance to the Danube River, but what most important it really does not really on selling energy to Europe as it can sell all it can produce to China.
The G8, what a joke, it’s nothing more than a bunch of former wealthy countries getting together for feel good drink.
A new master is taking over Europe.

Well, no insight your aware of. We are talking military flags just so you don't get off track.
(Omega, 3 March 2014 16:36)

Not sure that track provides any more insights that make sense :)
----------

The pilots of the 303 squadron fought with the British roundel yet took an oath to the legitimate Polish government. They took an oath to King George as well and later flew Polish roundels. Sometimes both at the same time.
(Omega, 3 March 2014 16:36)

Because the 303 squadron was part of RAF and, in any case, created by an agreement between the British and Polish governments.
----------

Australian Navy fought and displayed St George's ensign till 1967 (that's the British naval flag). They had their own National flag and independent government in 1901.
(Omega, 3 March 2014 16:36)

Well, Australia still has the British monarch as the Head of State. I'm not aware of Putin being the Head of State in Ukraine.

So, we still have not got any insights which make sense explaining how could a Ukranian naval flagship flying the Russian naval flag support a Ukrainian government!

Already the Ukranian naval flagship has deserted the illegitimate Ukraine government and is flying the Russian naval flag in support of the legitimate government.
(Omega, 2 March 2014 16:55)

If the Ukranian naval flagship is flying the Russian naval flag, that means that it support the government of Russia but not any (legitimate or illegitimate) Ukrainian government.

Some people here have really lost the ability to think coherently, it appears, otherwise it is hard to explain how flying the flag of country A shows support for the government of country B!

in my view as you go back in history Crimea wasn't part of Ukrain until Krushov make that a part of it when was USSR even he was a ukranian but probably he never dream USSR will break in peace's and as today the only think Russians are rushing they should play smarter as Germans did with them getting back the democratic Germany ..always the smart move wins never the war maybe you think you win but the pain and hate will stay forever....

"haha...if that split East-West were to happen, 50 years from now the Est will be like North Korea (supported by Russia) and the West will be like South Korea (supported by the West). But I'm sure Serb patriots would still tell us that everybody (except, of course, Serb patriots themselves) should be happy to live in North Korea, just for the sake of patriotism:)
(icj1, 2 March 2014 22:52)"

No, it's not that simple and not a good comparison. South Korea has an open market and close economic trade links with US, Japan and China, while North Korea is totally isolated from everyone, including Russia and China. All they have is their brand of communist isolationism and as a result, are what they are: a completely failed state, while South Korea is an economic powerhouse.

In the case of the Ukraine, it is different in that the East has the largest share of the major infrastructure (heavy industry, coastline/ports and a great deal of the agriculture), while the West really only has Kiev. Of course, the West is not totally helpless, but the disparity is big and in the case of a split, the Eastern part of the Ukraine will not be as hit as the Western part, who will be a charity case for the West and not integrated into the EU for MANY years.

While I wish all the best for Ukraine as a whole country and not one to be split by greedy imperialist powers, I fear the worst.

If the Ukranian naval flagship is flying the Russian naval flag, that means that it support the government of Russia but not any (legitimate or illegitimate) Ukrainian government.
---------------------

Similar to these guys,

http://histmag.org/grafika/nws/spitfire.jpg


Some people here have really lost the ability to think coherently, it appears, otherwise it is hard to explain how flying the flag of country A shows support for the government of country B!
(icj1, 2 March 2014 22:46)

Thanks for the insight of whats going on, but, please it would be much healthier if you would cease speaking in the third person about yourself.

If you need any other material to help your coherence by all means drop me another post, i'm always here to help the challenged.

(Ataman, 3 March 2014 10:27)
We have bibsis and banderist scumbags playing in the same team.A good reflection of true Dohány street spirit.One day good hitlerists the other day big mouth stalinist just to turn good democrats the next week.They will side even with the devil if it helps their wallet become thicker.

Some people here have really lost the ability to think coherently, it appears, otherwise it is hard to explain how flying the flag of country A shows support for the government of country B!
(icj1, 2 March 2014 22:46)

Thanks for the insight of whats going on, but, please it would be much healthier if you would cease speaking in the third person about yourself.
(Omega, 3 March 2014 12:35)

Sorry, but can't accept the thanks because I did not offer any insight. Indeed it's impossible for anybody to offer any insight to the statement that flying the flag of country A shows support for the government of country B! Still waiting for your insights on that incoherent statement :)

rote

I know that it is correct to claim that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians share common origins from the same root from the times of Kievan Rus', and that Russia is de-facto operating within the boundaries of internal affairs (sort of like if Germans would in Austria, Serbs in Montenegro or Romanians in Moldova), but I am talking about imperialism from the perspective of intervention in the affairs of a sovereign and independent state, which the Russian state itself officially recognizes.

I know that much of Ukraine is pieced together from land of other countries, including Russian Novorossiya, Crimea and Donbass, but were not Novorossiya and Crimea only added to Russia in the 17th/18th Centuries and were they not subjected to Russification by Catherine the Great? Does this not make the whole of Southern Ukraine an imperial addition to Russia just three centuries ago?

While indeed Russians are a large minority in Eastern and Southern Ukraine, they are only the majority in Crimea, so would it not be imperialist to then further extend military intervention to other parts of Southeastern Ukraine and risk splitting the internationally recognized borders of Ukraine?

Also, I believe Aleksandr Dugin's and Vladimir Zhirinovsky's viewpoints regarding Ukraine are commonplace among many Russians, which also strengthens my argument.

For these reasons I called Russians imperialists in this case. And also because I am Polish. ;)

Peter

“And also because I am Polish”

AS SIMPLE AS THAT AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS !!!!!!!

Szemi

WHAT I TOLD YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is why Vladimir Putin is the leader of the free world.
(Dragan, 3 March 2014 15:50)

Haha, this made my day. The most laughable phrase we've seen today :)

If Vladimir is the leader of the free world, how comes that no country in the world, not even Serbia, Russia's closest ally, has voiced support for what Russia is doing in Ukraine. It's weird that nobody is supporting the leader!
----------

He doesn't invade countries to prop up profits for the military industrial complex which controls the US, or because some arms lobbyist twisted his arm to do so. He does it to defend his people when they come under real danger, such as in Georgia and now Ukraine.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 3 March 2014 15:50)

You mean imaginary danger! The only Russians in real danger in the last few days have been the ones thrown in jail in Moscow for protesting against the war. Hopefully Vladimir will defend them, as well - it should be much easier as he is in Moscow, too :)

So, we still have not got any insights which make sense explaining how could a Ukranian naval flagship flying the Russian naval flag support a Ukrainian government!
(icj1, 4 March 2014 06:12)

Here is how it works, The legitimate head of the Ukrainian Gov't gave the order for this ship to return to Crimea and not partake in the illegitimate Gov't order to mobilize.

At a time of brikmanship and confusion the Naval commander flew the Russian ensign to announce no ill intentions against members of the Russian army in Crimea under treaty or ARC territorial units. He faithfully executed the legitimate gov't order and has since moved on from his post.

This event has to a similar extent been repeated across the country with Ukrainian special forces and Ukrainian regular army units refusing the illegitimate government's mobilization order. As far as I'm aware the Ukrainian air force has stayed grounded and reservists have unanimously ignored the barking of the illegitimate gov't. The majority of Ukrainians don't want to be a far right wing fifth column it seems.

Just have to wait for the next elections instead of mass carnage thanks in part to those loyal actions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Y_wjT-530

Now, you also know that the "slaughter" was not happening unless you count the slaugher of Serbs for their organs.
(Peggy, 2 March 2014 21:01)
Didn't get that memo, nor did the rest of the world. Maybe you should resend it but don't get your hopes up as no one is going to believe it. You might get a few ultranationalists sitting around in the bars of Belgrade that may agree with you but still they know the truth.

Where is NATO now?
(sj, 3 March 2014 22:09)

NATO is in Brussels leaving it to Russia to humiliate itself in Ukraine by showing a total lack of influence in the world. Ukraine is not a NATO member. However when we saw violations of human rights of Russian citizens in Estonia (actual violations, not imaginary ones like in Ukraine) we did not see Russia do anything like this, even though Estonia is a much weaker country compared to Ukraine. Sorry that I'm about make an heretic statement, but it appears being a NATO member makes a difference :)
----------

Here is another piece of very bad news lads, Russia now controls the Black Sea and entrance to the Danube River, but what most important it really does not really on selling energy to Europe as it can sell all it can produce to China.
(sj, 3 March 2014 22:09)

Thanks, but that's old news.... Russia controlled the Black Sea already so the Russians could have a place where to go to the beach; the Black Sea is very good for that.
----------

A new master is taking over Europe.
(sj, 3 March 2014 22:09)

That's great, if it makes you happy :) Your happiness is very important for us. A happy CE of B92 forums benefits all as it improves the quality of his/her thoughts and the resulting analysis.

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

rote

Hahaha, come on, you know I was just pulling your leg with that comment. ;)

Not sure that track provides any more insights that make sense :)
(icj1, 4 March 2014 06:12)

You wittingly or not tried to phony up my statement. Give yourself some rereading time and see if you can spot it. Just a bit of insightful clarification for you :)

----------

"Because the 303 squadron was part of RAF and, in any case, created by an agreement between the British and Polish governments."


Terrific, an example of a unit being loyal to both governments no matter how it was formed.

----------

"Well, Australia still has the British monarch as the Head of State. I'm not aware of Putin being the Head of State in Ukraine."

And yet they since saw fit to remove the ensign, how disloyal then. Do those scallywags realize the British monarch is still the head of state.

F.Y.I. the USS Winston Churchill is a ship under the command of the US head of State and flies the English ensign too.

Just when I thought the revolutionary war was long gone, those damn redcoats start making a late comeback. :)

Peter you were pulling more than just his leg...…..
(azir, 5 March 2014 19:21)

Don't know much about Peter, but If he is an Albanian and he thinks like you, he would most likely be pulling out the guys kidneys to sell.

Sure, sure.... Even if the Est of Ukraine is such a paradise, I'm sure Russia will make it look like.... well, Russia in a few years :)
(icj1, 3 March 2014 14:14)

I never said it was a paradise. Far from it. It is still one of the poorest parts of Europe. Russia's economy is comparable to Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Croatia and the Baltic countries, so it's not paradise either, but not a tragedy either.

Anyway, my point was only that the East side will be in a better state than the West side, though both will still be poor. Ukraine is a mess economically speaking because of decades of corruption (especially the $70-billion stolen by Yanukovich's government in the last three years).

The G8, what a joke, it’s nothing more than a bunch of former wealthy countries getting together for feel good drink.
A new master is taking over Europe.
(sj, 3 March 2014 22:09)
maybe you Wright or not in your comment but one think regarding the G8 maybe a joke for you but the 80% of the world wealth comes from there or short is there and they control the money if you like it or not and also I don't LIKE IT also but unfortunately its THE TRUTH......

For these reasons I called Russians imperialists in this case. And also because I am Polish. ;)
(Peter Sudyka, 3 March 2014 14:56)

For that name-calling I have no other choice - but to ask you to settle the case with one bottle of Zubrowka if we ever meet. On my side - as a sign of good will I can bring you a "Barack" (NOT talking bout Obama here). Alternatively, a bottle of Stoli will work out, too (your choice).

We will need a third person of course because this kind of settlement is done "на троих" in RU and "за троицу" in SRB. Kind of hard - as I am in the States at this moment.

Szemi

WHAT I TOLD YOU !!!…!!
(rote, 3 March 2014 20:33)

Being Polish is not a sin. Unfortunately there was a great deal of quarrel in the last 500 years. Not our fault and not the fault of the people I personally know. But some on their side are extremely protective. I know some (in an unrelated place) who demonstrated much less maturity, are far more aggressive and direct their aggression towards their Russian peers who try their best to please the potential Polish guests. These imbeciles have to be told, their Russian hosts in SPB have nothing to do with the current crisis in UA and most likely have nothing to do with Putin himself. I really got upset at these smartasses. And guess what, they are normally nice people, fairly well-off, too, driving in Poland better cars than I drive in the States and having far better jobs (high-profile doctors) than I do as a programmer.

Anyway, I am happy to see both Szemi and Peter acting much more normal.

How's this any different to what the America does all the time to some other country? They're always sending troops to bomb something or kill someone. Military personnel in 130 nations and over 900 overseas military bases? That's not ''peacekeeping'' folks, that's an empire. So lay off the Russians as it's grossly hypocritical.
(Al Mualima, 4 March 2014 17:12)

Well, we've not heard those 130 countries complaining about it :)

But even if you were to be correct and let's say that America is evil, that means that what you're saying is that Russia is evil too!

Peter you were pulling more than just his leg...............

Here is how it works, The legitimate head of the Ukrainian Gov't gave the order for this ship to return to Crimea and not partake in the illegitimate Gov't order to mobilize.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 22:08)

I'm not aware that Yatsenyuk, the head of the Ukrainian Gov't, has given that order. Can you illuminate us where you saw that order?!
----------

At a time of brikmanship and confusion the Naval commander flew the Russian ensign to announce no ill intentions against members of the Russian army in Crimea under treaty or ARC territorial units.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 22:08)

Assuming it is as you say, that does not explain how flying the Russian naval flag supports a Ukrainian government!
----------

He faithfully executed the legitimate gov't order and has since moved on from his post.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 22:08)

You still have not shown the order :)
----------

This event has to a similar extent been repeated across the country with Ukrainian special forces and Ukrainian regular army units refusing the illegitimate government's mobilization order. As far as I'm aware the Ukrainian air force has stayed grounded and reservists have unanimously ignored the barking of the illegitimate gov't. The majority of Ukrainians don't want to be a far right wing fifth column it seems.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 22:08)

Ok, assuming all the above is as you say, you still did not explain how flying the flag of country A means showing support for country B!

Terrific, an example of a unit being loyal to both governments no matter how it was formed.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 15:32)

OK, and then what ?!
----------

And yet they since saw fit to remove the ensign, how disloyal then. Do those scallywags realize the British monarch is still the head of state.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 15:32)

You can ask them, but still it does not show how flying the naval flag of Country A shows support for Country B
----------

F.Y.I. the USS Winston Churchill is a ship under the command of the US head of State and flies the English ensign too.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 15:32)

Nice info... so how does that show that flying the Russian Naval flag, means showing support for a Ukrainian government. Why not fly the Ukrainian flag?! We have some very serious lapses here which defy logical thinking :)

This is on par with Nazi Germany sending in troops to the Sudetenland in 1938.

Hitler sent in the troops to "protect" the ethnic Germans living in the Sudetenland. Now Putin is sending in troops to "protect" ethnic Russians.

History does repeat itself!

It's funny how one can easily become the very thing they supposedly hate.

Yes, yes, you're regurgitating the right wing hate speeches from the Russian government owned/ sponsored media which says that Ukrainians and Euromaiden are all "fascists" because the Right Sector & a small minority of Svoboda (who themselves are a small minority of Euromaiden) admire Stepan Bandera. Oh & one bloke threw a Molotov cocktail in the general direction of a Synagogue, which according to Russian media means that Euromaiden is "anti-semitic". It would be laughable if the Kremlin weren't so serious about this propaganda. Well Batkivshchyna & UDAR are liberal conservatives & liberals (the main force behind Euromaiden); they aren't "fascists" like the Russian media would like you to believe.

Who are the real "fascists"? The ones who overthrew a right wing nationalist foreign occupation, or the one with the little right wing nationalist with no regards to civil liberties and oppressed with territorial expansist colonialism?

With the inevitable Russian invasion where thousands of Ukranians and Crimean Tatars will die, who is supposedly being "protected"? According to Russian/ Putinist media, it is the ethnic Russians who need "protecting"; but it is the Ukrainians & Tatars who are being beaten up and murdered. But somehow, I don't think the Russian forces want to "protect" them? Do you?

Putin, the new Milosevic. Last I checked, Ukraine was a sovereign nation, with defined borders. How would Putin react if other nations invaded Russia to protect its minorities. This is a blantant breach of international law. Let's see how the West reponds.

Right on, Ian, only Putin will have this action crack on his head a lot sooner than it did Hitler's.

Great news. To Rote and any other Russians who may be reading this, good luck and may God be with you! Serbia is behind you, please go and start the reversal in Ukraine, get rid of the fascists in power, and restore democracy. I love seeing the Russian people rising up to defend their people. It is inspiring, and Vladimir Putin is definitely the leader of the free world. Samo napred !!
Cheers!!

The 'Nazi' comments are being made here to push a propaganda stance - I think the democratic voice of Ukrainian people is being belittled because of Serb Nationalist bigotry and not because of any really intelligent comment about the reality for the people of Ukraine. I am sure that Ukrainians will not love Serbs if they are being accused of being 'Nazi' when they try to assert their democratic voice and it is stomped on by Putin.

The Russian 'brothers' stance is also nonsense - Croats are more Serbia's brothers in terms of DNA than are the Russians. Why not praise them for their brilliant support :-) ?

Ukraine needs to sort itself out - there is no ethnic cleansing like in Bosnia and Kosovo. It doesn't need the Russian boot. Putin has shown his colours - he is not to be respected for this opportunism. He has about the same level of diplomatic IQ that was displayed by Milosevic - approximately zero. He has taken a chance to invade. He won't leave. Time to reenter a cold war?

History does repeat itself!
(Ian, UK, 1 2014 17:25)
--
Poor Ian, the problem being that the NAZI supporters are in western Ukraine and Germany is supporting them. They have already torn down statues erected to celebrate the victory over Nazism. Your spin is pathetic. Russia is protecting its own people. It will not interfere with western Ukraine. The west can have it along with the many hungry mouths to feed.

What if Putin bit more than he can chew?!

There are Russian citizens who are under threat from right wing skin heads who idolize Hitler! Putin is doing what he was voted to do and that is to protect his people, i mean its no different from the Falklands war is it when Britain sent troops in?! Typical hypocritical Brit!

No Ian this is tantamount to NATO (including the poodle UK) sending in troops to Kosovo to protect the "populace" except the Serbs, of course, who NATO helped ethnically cleanse. And so according to NATO's past actions, the Russians would be entitled to drive out the disloyal Tartars. Except Russia is not as barbaric as NATO war criminals.

Hitler sent in the troops to "protect" the ethnic Germans living in the Sudetenland. Now Putin is sending in troops to "protect" ethnic Russians.

History does repeat itself!
(Ian, UK, 1 March 2014 17:25)
======================
Putin is sending in troopes to protect his own people, the Russians, what was America doing sending in planes to bomb Belgrade?

Putin is sending in troopes to protect his own people, the Russians, what was America doing sending in planes to bomb Belgrade?
(Peggy, 1 March 2014 22:56)
Putin sent in troops to "protect" Russians although no threat had yet materialized. US sent in its forces to stop a slaughter already in process.

The Putin lovers here deserve Putin, could not agree with you more Ian. Always enjoy popping into this site to see what the fascists are supporting now. Who is the fool below who says that Putin is leader of the free world? I would laugh if it didnt scare me that most of the people here believe that. With their inflexible and myopic world view. The west is 100% evil. Anyone who is Anti west is 100% good. That Said seeing these posters have half a brain call between them, at least it is simple. And let me say it, not all Serbia has behaved like innocent angels all the time have they? Oh don't look so shocked. World is a complex place. Deal with it.

It was Ukraine that started hostilities, now they will have to pay for poking the bear. Long live Russia! Long live Bulgaria! Long live Serbia!

Gunmen from Kiev attempted to seize Crimea's Interior Ministry overnight - Russia
Published time: March 01, 2014 09:13
http://rt.com/news/russia-crimea-sieze-gunmen-344/

Nazis are your politicians and army generals responsible for their genocide in Iraq and ths thousands they killed in Libya and Afganistan
Hold your head in shame you rightewing biggot.

Ian

the supporter of fascists in Ukraine, oh how the dead British of WWII must be turning in their graves now seeing their government support the Ukrainian NAZIS just so they can have a poke at Russia. You betray the memory of the millions who died at the hands of the fascists including your own countrymen. Britain has truly lost its way.

The strange thing is that nobody is supporting Russia in this adventure... Not even Serbia, Russia's strongest ally. I'm sure Russia will remember this betrayal from the Serbia "brothers"

You’re a sick man if you offer Russia the Nazi role. Russia has once almost alone destroyed the Nazi and now we are decisive enough to refrain. For your information the Maidan people every day greet each other with “Heil” shouts and hang around Kiev hundreds of pictures of Stefan Bendera , Roman Shuhevich and other Waffen SS and Abwher officers. By the way Adolf Hitler personally awarded Bendera with the Iron Cross Order. Earlier in 1939 the Germans had set him free from a Warsaw prison. Ask Peter Sudyka about the people mentioned. He will tell you how many thousands of Poles mostly women and children they killed in Volin Region in 1943. Be ready he will say something between 80 000 and 250 000. Ask also the Jews who killed 35 000 of the Jews in Babi Yar ect. Then ask yourself if you are just an idiot or a finished moron !

PS Don’t deceive yourself that we’ll be satisfied with Crimea only coz half of the Ukraine is on the stake. We’ve warned you many times that Kosovo may become a precedent. But clonus all over Europe were not only deaf and blind but also blunt enough to obey their overseas master. So nobody cares what those castrated sheep thinks today with their sheep brains.

Russians and Serbs are brothers!
Please do not forejudge Russia!

It's funny how one can easily become the very thing they supposedly hate.

Yes, you're regurgitating the right wing hate speeches from the Russian government owned/ sponsored media which says that Ukrainians and Euromaiden are all "fascists" because the Right Sector and a small minority of Svoboda (who are a small minority of Euromaiden) admire Stepan Bandera. Oh and one bloke threw a Molotov cocktail in the general direction of a Synagogue, which according to Russian media means that Euromaiden is "anti-sematic". It I'd be laughable if the Kremlin weren't so serious about this propaganda. Well Batkivshchyna and UDAR are liberal conservatives and liberals (the main force behind Euromaiden), not fascists are Russian media has brainwashed you.

Who are the real "fascists"? The ones who overthrew a right wing nationalist foreign occupation, or the one with the little right wing nationalist with no regards to civil liberties is oppressed with territorial expansion colonialism? The Greater Russian Reich?

With the inevitable Russian invasion where thousands of Ukranians and Crimean Tatars will die, who is supposedly being "protected"? According to Russian/ Putinist media, it is the ethnic Russians who need "protecting"; but it is the Ukrainians and Tatars who are being beaten up and murdered. But somehow, I don't think the Russian forces want to "protect" them? Do you?

I'll end this comment with one statement: Ukraine isn't Georgia, Ukraine is much bigger than Georgia!

Oh yes, I.ve forgotten that it is America's exclusive And only right to protect their folk in Syria, Irak, Lybia...

Amazing how the quislings in the west talk a good fight but are powerless to take on the Russians be they right or wrong.If the ethnic majority areas of any country want to secede they can by all means necessary. if it was ok for the albanians in kosovo its set a precedent elsewhere. scotland go for it.

Russia is the aggressor and we see that we - the West - used way to much appeasement towards Russia and her quissilings. It is time to step up and show Putin that he overstreched, by removing all Russian influence in the Middle East and Balkans (Serbia, Southstream).

Not the same thing Ian. There was no governmet take over in Czechoslovakia when the Nazis invaded

Its always dirty politics and tactics from Russia.Its hard being neighbor to Russia or Serbia.

...This is why Vladimir Putin is the leader of the free world...
(Dragan, 3 March 2014 15:50)

I advice you to stop, whatever you are smoking.It's bad for your brain.

Not the same thing Ian. There was no governmet take over in Czechoslovakia when the Nazis invaded
(Sam D, 1 March 2014 19:23)

The Polish and Cze-slovak governments were regarded as "Anti-German" while Hitler claimed that he was protecting German rights. So absolutely the same words which Putin and Russia use today.

Btw. why Russia did not "protect" his citizens in Estonia when it came to the war memorial? Wetting pants because of NATO?

Well, looks like that NATO has a reason. And Ukraine should start re-building his nuclear arsenal. Russia anyway vioded the treaty when invading Crimea.

PS Don’t deceive yourself that we’ll be satisfied with Crimea only coz half of the Ukraine is on the stake. We’ve warned you many times that Kosovo may become a precedent. But clonus all over Europe were not only deaf and blind but also blunt enough to obey their overseas master. So nobody cares what those castrated sheep thinks today with their sheep brains.
(rote, 1 March 2014 20:19)


rote,

How easily you forget what happened to the Russian troops that tried to take over the airport outside Prishtina, Kosova in 1999. They were begging KFOR for food after a few days of being surrounded by NATO military. After being humiliated they were sent home to Russia with bruises to prove the failure of their misadventure. This time the Russians will not be so lucky for invading the Ukraine. It is a move of desperation on the part of Putin, as he is, in fact, showing weakness. He will live to regret this fascist act of aggression on a sovereign country. This belligerent action will result in Russia being punished with economic sanctions and being expelled from the G8. Putin and his cronies will have their personal assets frozen in Western banks. This foolish act, by a little angry man, will isolate Russia and set her back twenty years. Finally, the emperor will be shown not to wear any clothes.

That could be WW III. The last one.

The EU looks a little silly talking about Ukranian Sovergnty after two decades of ignoring Serbia's soverngnty. That is the trouble with abandoning the law, you can't rely on it only when it conveniences you. In any case I pray for peace and lawful order.

I am fascinated by the fixation of many in Serbia with Putin and their desire for a leader like him. True, I agree with much (though not all) of the criticism of the West full of hypocrisy, division and weakness. I generally agree that the Ukraine crisis was in part due to Ashton. The West keeps calling bluff and it is getting a bit embarrassing... By the way, many reader comments in Westen news media are more critical of the West than Russia. But at least that is allowed, unlikely in Putin's Russia. back to my point. Corruption is everywhere in different forms. Serbia has been trying to clean this up a bit. Putin and his cronies would seem to be the worst state thieves of anywhere. Yet many Serbs idolise him. OK he wants to look, tough, macho, topless, and these adoring Serbs like the strong leader. Hard for me to get it but OK, i can go with it. Stop portraying this uber criminal as a hero. The Wet is weak, divided, imperfect, hypocritical etc. But not fascists in the true sense of the time. And before you start to go off on one again, look up fascism. And I am not saying that these people in Serbia should supported and com plemenit the West. Just don't hero worship this guy and what he represents. Is he truly a brother in Orthodoxy, carine for Serbia in his heart. Or is he just a smart, realist geopolitical player, who sees opportunities to provoke his enemy, just as his enemies seek to provoke him? My guess is this last one. Stop lusting after him.

What if Putin bit more than he can chew?!
(cry me a river, 2 March 2014 00:20)

Doubt that, loud minorities don't talk for the majority. Russia has much support, do not be fooled thinking this is an east vs west Ukraine battle. Many Ukrainians in the centre and east are partial to assimilating with slav brothers more than many think.

http://dy1m18dp41gup.cloudfront.net/cdn/farfuture/qilyua3fl5uV0gFdE_K9_kneUR-agdLp5UQ5Dm31myE/mtime:1391567627/files/Map%20of%20langues.jpg

Also the GDP, industry and famed black earth is located in the Eastern half, the far east of the country is generally economically backward and offers nothing.

http://ukrmap.su/program2010/g8/g8_26_files/image008.gif


Russia can easily take the whole of Ukraine back in a formal commonwealth if it chooses to preserve it's integrity, provides for it's security, rids corruptive politicians to the same level as western European counterparts and assist in destroying extreme nationalists and their warpath of cleansing Ukraine of any (what they deem) foreign cultural elements.

Ukranians know money, good life and a meal on the table speaks louder than ultra nationalism.

Already the Ukranian naval flagship has deserted the illegitimate Ukraine government and is flying the Russian naval flag in support of the legitimate government. The Chinese are threatening also to withdraw 8 billion in pledges and loans as a result of instability.

Way to go Ukranian ultra-nationalists.

>>> Putin, the new Milosevic.
(winston, 2 March 2014 20:02)

Nope. Most important: Ludmila Putina is NOT Mira Markovic! Any doubts, who's the boss in the Putin family?


>>>Last I checked, Ukraine was a sovereign nation, with defined borders. How would Putin react if other nations invaded Russia to protect its minorities. This is a blantant breach of international law. Let's see how the West responds.
(winston, 2 March 2014 20:02)


Last I checked, Yugoslavia was a sovereign nation, with defined borders. How would Milosevic react if other nations invaded Yugoslavia to protect its minorities. This is a blantant breach of international law. Let's see how Yeltsin responds.

My heart goes out to those poor Western Ukrainians. All they wanted was a better government and better life. Now, I fear they will come off worse than before the rebellion. I know people here shout "fascists!" when it comes to them (and trust me, as a Pole I wish for all Banderists to burn in hell!), but most of them are just normal people like you or me.
(Peter Sudyka, 2 March 2014 13:41)

I think you are right. Same applies to the Russian population in the Russian-speaking regions.

But Banderists are much stronger than I did expect. The proof is not very much mentioned in the West - except in Hungary.

One of the first acts the new government in Kiev did was to abolish the minority languages. Was done by "banderists" with Russians in mind... but the Hungarians took the hit:

http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140224_Visszavontak_a_nyelvtorvenyt_Karpataljan
http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140227_Sikorski_hiba_volt_a_nyelvtorveny_eltorle
http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140223_Ne_szukitsek_az_ukrajnai_magyarok_jogait

http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140223_Ne_szukitsek_az_ukrajnai_magyarok_jogait

Banderist hooligans in Beregovo, anti-Hungarian action of some "democrats":

http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140225_Beregszaszi_eroszak_megszolalt_a_magyar_k

And the official Hungarian media (radio Kossuth) called the Maidan-people "terrorists".

http://hvg.hu/itthon/20140221_Bajnai_nem_hitte_el_amig_nem_hallotta_a_K

"a rendvédelmi erõk megkezdték a terroristák felkutatását és ártalmatlanná tételét"

I pray for peace between Orthodox brothers. I do not celebrate the overthrow of an elected government by facists, but I do not want an invasion either. That would be trading tyrany for foriegn occupation. Today is the Sunday of Forgiveness and this week is the begining of Great Lent. Let us pray to God and beg for the intercesion of Saints Cyril and Methodius.


Troparion — Tone 4

Divinely-wise Cyril and Methodius, / equals-to-the-apostles and teachers of the Slavs, / entreat the Master of all / to strengthen all nations in Orthodoxy and unity of mind, / to grant peace to the world and to save our souls.
Kontakion — Tone 3

Let us honor the sacred pair, who translated divine scripture / pouring forth a fountain of divine knowledge from which we still draw today. / Now as you stand before the throne of the Most-high / we call you blessed, Cyril and Methodius, / as you fervently pray for our souls.

The west talks of sovereignty, borders etc, but the same West allowed Kosovo separatism. Ok they said it was a one off. However in practical terms it opens up the gates to others. we in the west have backed a coup but now there is a counter coup or a coup within a coup. I think this is going to get very messey, I wouldn't be suprised if some pro Russian members of the Ukraine armed forces start to defect. A big problem with the west is it's in ability to act. I persoanlly hope the UK keeps out of it. By the way Ian UK does not speak for all Brits.

Sadly, the people that will get hit hardest are the Western Ukrainians. That part is too big and too poor to be able to stand on its own two legs, is underdeveloped and will doubtfully be offered the EU integration (expansion fatigue) that they were fighting for. I see another poor black hole in Eastern Europe, like a much larger South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transdniester or Kosovo, except without the support of one of the large powers like all of the latter do, to some degree.

The Eastern part is fortunate enough to be supported by Russia (whose economy is in good shape and growing), so they will come off better.
(Peter Sudyka, 2 March 2014 13:41)

haha...if that split East-West were to happen, 50 years from now the Est will be like North Korea (supported by Russia) and the West will be like South Korea (supported by the West). But I'm sure Serb patriots would still tell us that everybody (except, of course, Serb patriots themselves) should be happy to live in North Korea, just for the sake of patriotism:)

I can't believe Russia has invaded a sovereign country on the pretext of preventing a humanitarian disaster! How would they like it if the USA and NATO would invade a sovereign country like Serbia and setup military bases in one of its provinces! Oh wait...

Once again the CIA and friends at thier best trying to isolate the Russians.
First in Checheyna - failed
Georgia - Failed
Syria - Failed
Ukraine another likely fail.
How they wish that drunken Yelstin was still in power.

Oh and one bloke threw a Molotov cocktail in the general direction of a Synagogue, which according to Russian media means that Euromaiden is "anti-sematic"
(Ian, UK, 2 March 2014 01:24)

Aha, and "few" more blokes stormed the municipal building in Beregszász / Beregovo on the Ukrainian / Hungarian border.

http://hvg.hu/vilag/20140225_Beregszaszi_eroszak_megszolalt_a_magyar_k

In that city NO ONE, again NO ONE, not a single soul does speak Ukrainian. The minority of the population is Russian, the majority is Hungarian. They get along OK with each other, the (usual) issue is the relatively poor Roma minority - but they tend to be underdogs and their self-consciousness is on a very low scale.

Than out of sudden the municipality building is being stormed by banderists, total outsiders. They have nothing to do with Beregszász / Beregovo.

So as far as I understand you, if one Serbian bloke goes postal in Kosovo, than Belgrade should be bombed ("just in case"). If one Ukrainian bloke goes postal on a Synagogue, than Moscow should be bombed - and ("just in case") Belgrade, too. Won't work that way.

To those of you brainwashed sheep who believe in 'American Exceptionalism', ie. that the US can invade who it wants whenever it wants, give support to neo-Nazis or jhiadists and not have to obey any international laws or answer any questions....
http://disinfo.com/2014/03/jeremy-scahill-one-party-state-war-party/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
This is why Vladimir Putin is the leader of the free world. He doesn't invade countries to prop up profits for the military industrial complex which controls the US, or because some arms lobbyist twisted his arm to do so. He does it to defend his people when they come under real danger, such as in Georgia and now Ukraine.
Cheers!!

Sure, sure.... Even if the Est of Ukraine is such a paradise, I'm sure Russia will make it look like.... well, Russia in a few years :)
(icj1, 3 March 2014 14:14)

I never said it was a paradise. Far from it. It is still one of the poorest parts of Europe. Russia's economy is comparable to Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Croatia and the Baltic countries, so it's not paradise either, but not a tragedy either.

Anyway, my point was only that the East side will be in a better state than the West side, though both will still be poor. Ukraine is a mess economically speaking because of decades of corruption (especially the $70-billion stolen by Yanukovich's government in the last three years).

This is why Vladimir Putin is the leader of the free world.
(Dragan, 3 March 2014 15:50)

Haha, this made my day. The most laughable phrase we've seen today :)

If Vladimir is the leader of the free world, how comes that no country in the world, not even Serbia, Russia's closest ally, has voiced support for what Russia is doing in Ukraine. It's weird that nobody is supporting the leader!
----------

He doesn't invade countries to prop up profits for the military industrial complex which controls the US, or because some arms lobbyist twisted his arm to do so. He does it to defend his people when they come under real danger, such as in Georgia and now Ukraine.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 3 March 2014 15:50)

You mean imaginary danger! The only Russians in real danger in the last few days have been the ones thrown in jail in Moscow for protesting against the war. Hopefully Vladimir will defend them, as well - it should be much easier as he is in Moscow, too :)

A range of comments, dragging up a lot of history.Perhaps it's worth appraising the situation in 2014 Ukraine and Crimea without throwing around cliches like fascism, Nazis, Stalin and other dated cold war rhetoric.Maybe its a country with two polarised opinions and neither is actually wrong. Time for a bit of diplomacy.

I fear that maintaining Ukraine's territorial integrity when it is made up in part of other peoples' land and has a massive non-Ukrainian minority is just not possible. A military intervention by NATO would be an act of aggression and Russia is in the fortunate position of having the right to defend his citizens that may come under harm.

What needs to be done is a definite mutual agreement of sphere of influence in Ukraine, as in until where is Russia's sphere and where is the West's sphere.

Sadly, the people that will get hit hardest are the Western Ukrainians. That part is too big and too poor to be able to stand on its own two legs, is underdeveloped and will doubtfully be offered the EU integration (expansion fatigue) that they were fighting for. I see another poor black hole in Eastern Europe, like a much larger South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transdniester or Kosovo, except without the support of one of the large powers like all of the latter do, to some degree.

The Eastern part is fortunate enough to be supported by Russia (whose economy is in good shape and growing), so they will come off better.

My heart goes out to those poor Western Ukrainians. All they wanted was a better government and better life. Now, I fear they will come off worse than before the rebellion. I know people here shout "fascists!" when it comes to them (and trust me, as a Pole I wish for all Banderists to burn in hell!), but most of them are just normal people like you or me.

Ian

Maybe Russia and Russians are preventing what happened to them during WWII I mean you did say history repeats its self! I mean after all the president was democratically elected then western backed NGOS and other anti Russian opposition protested and rioted and was deemed by western media as freedom fighters and martyrs! Where have we heard that before?! Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan in the 80s, Libya, Bosnia and Kosovo?! But yet when Russians in Ukraine are moving to defend themselves its classed as armed men not simply people protecting themselves you cant have double standards... Pretty much what Serbia did in 90s we defended ourselves and we was labeled all kinds of things and for what not wanting to be controlled a government that idolized fascism that was responsible for over 500,000 Serbs in WWII?! I mean if you want to meet me in Halifax sometime i ll easily tell you my families history i mean i must be here for a reason and its not a good one is it?! By the way did you know a lot of Tartars and Ukrainians killed a lot of Russians in WWII! People don't give and forget do they i mean look at Ireland and the IRA!

Putin is sending in troopes to protect his own people
(Peggy, 1 March 2014 22:56)

protect his own people from what, dear? From Putin himself. The only Russians whose human rights were violated so far were those protesting in Moscow against Russia starting a war in Ukraine! Those Russians surely need protection.

The hysteria and hypocrisy of the NATO stooges is comical. Russia is simply engaging in a "humanitarian" intervention. Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are in danger and Russia is simply saving lives, as requested by the populations of these regions. This is more legitimate than the pro-jihadist interventions by NATO war criminals in Bosnia and Kosovo or for the sodomite Nazis now in Kiev. God bless Orthodox Russia.

Already the Ukranian naval flagship has deserted the illegitimate Ukraine government and is flying the Russian naval flag in support of the legitimate government.
(Omega, 2 March 2014 16:55)

If the Ukranian naval flagship is flying the Russian naval flag, that means that it support the government of Russia but not any (legitimate or illegitimate) Ukrainian government.

Some people here have really lost the ability to think coherently, it appears, otherwise it is hard to explain how flying the flag of country A shows support for the government of country B!

Its laughable reading the same comments from many of the same commenters with no proper education in history and blindly throwing out labels of "Hitler" and "Fascism" on the Russian minority in Ukraine protecting key strategic interests of Russia.

Hitler invaded the Sudetenland in 1938 does not have any parallels to the events in the Ukraine. Prime Minister Benes and all of Czechoslovakia was fully united in the condemnation of the invasion and Hitler’s Ultimatum to protect the "German Minority" a small proportion influenced by the Nazi's did rebel. Betrayed by France and England, all Benes could do is watch his country fall as the Nazi's invaded and later the Hungarians who took other pieces.

Today's Ukraine was a Coup d’état supported by Ukrainian fascists who undemocratically took control of the Country with a large Russian minority. The entire country of Ukraine is not united in condemnation of the so called Russian aggression to protect its national interest.

I encourage so called historical commenters as a start to read William Shirer, the fall and Rise of the Third Reich, the best account of the Nazi regime.

The strange thing is that nobody is supporting Russia in this adventure... Not even Serbia, Russia's strongest ally. I'm sure Russia will remember this betrayal from the Serbia "brothers"
(icj1, 2 March 2014 15:00)
===…==
You have totally lost it.
(Peggy, 2 March 2014 20:58)

Why you have secret information that Serbia will support Russia's cause :) Waiting impatiently for that to happen. It would be the greatest news for Kosovo haha

Some people here have really lost the ability to think coherently, it appears, otherwise it is hard to explain how flying the flag of country A shows support for the government of country B!
(icj1, 2 March 2014 22:46)

Thanks for the insight of whats going on, but, please it would be much healthier if you would cease speaking in the third person about yourself.
(Omega, 3 March 2014 12:35)

Sorry, but can't accept the thanks because I did not offer any insight. Indeed it's impossible for anybody to offer any insight to the statement that flying the flag of country A shows support for the government of country B! Still waiting for your insights on that incoherent statement :)

No, it's not that simple and not a good comparison. South Korea has an open market and close economic trade links with US, Japan and China, while North Korea is totally isolated from everyone, including Russia and China. All they have is their brand of communist isolationism and as a result, are what they are: a completely failed state, while South Korea is an economic powerhouse.

In the case of the Ukraine, it is different in that the East has the largest share of the major infrastructure (heavy industry, coastline/ports and a great deal of the agriculture), while the West really only has Kiev. Of course, the West is not totally helpless, but the disparity is big and in the case of a split, the Eastern part of the Ukraine will not be as hit as the Western part, who will be a charity case for the West and not integrated into the EU for MANY years.

While I wish all the best for Ukraine as a whole country and not one to be split by greedy imperialist powers, I fear the worst.
(Peter Sudyka, 3 March 2014 10:48)

Sure, sure.... Even if the Est of Ukraine is such a paradise, I'm sure Russia will make it look like.... well, Russia in a few years :)

I'm 100% Serbian and I back Putin 100%

Putin, the new Clinton. Last I checked, Serbia was a sovereign nation, with defined borders. How would Clinton react if other nations invaded the US to protect its minorities. This is a blantant breach of international law. Let's see how the West reponds.
(winston, 2 March 2014 20:02)
========================
You see, I just changed a few words and it's obvious how the US has done worse. Russia is protecting their own people in Ukraine. What was the US protecting? Oh, yes, Camp Bondsteel idea.

The strange thing is that nobody is supporting Russia in this adventure... Not even Serbia, Russia's strongest ally. I'm sure Russia will remember this betrayal from the Serbia "brothers"
(icj1, 2 March 2014 15:00)
==============================
You have totally lost it.

I have said it before that when China and Russia were ready they will make their moves and it looks like they are ready. What will the EU, US or even NATO do over Ukraine? Nothing at all. It’s very easy to attack small nations like school yard bullies, but it’s another thing to fight someone who can bloody your nose.
It’s so amusing to watch the hand wringing, the hollow threats of isolation from Washington, as if they could isolate Russia or China. In the hall ways of NATO the only arguments going on is who lost the cork bottle opener because that’s all they can do. If you think for a moment that NATO would not take action if it could then stop dreaming. If it had the capacity it would take on Russia, but the wars in Afghanistan have finished off NATO as a serious contender and now it’s only good for debating situations.
A far right winged radio commentator in Sydney was talking about this situation in the Ukraine this morning and when he mentioned the US his statement was “they are totally bloody useless and the EU is not much better”.
What does Russia’s taking of Crimea mean? It will control all the black sea and have unrestricted access to the Danube as well.
Why doesn’t Serbia openly support Russia? They are a very small nation and currently ruled by weak boot licking politicians, but all this will change as a new master takes over Europe and don’t be fooled they are taking over.

Is it any surprise many commenters on here are on Putin's side? What Putin is doing to Ukraine is what Milosovic was doing to Croatia. On differnece is hopefully this will not escelate to violnce as it did in the 90s.

(Ataman, 3 March 2014 10:27)
We have bibsis and banderist scumbags playing in the same team.A good reflection of true Dohány street spirit.One day good hitlerists the other day big mouth stalinist just to turn good democrats the next week.They will side even with the devil if it helps their wallet become thicker.

Peter Sudyka

“to be split by greedy imperialist powers”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism

What signs of imperialism can you see in Russia ? In what part of the world ? Peter you are always reasonable before it comes to Russia. Then you start to hint us that “Cartagena must be destroyed”. You are not a low educated Albanian taxist from Pristina not to know that those are Russian lands and those are Russian people that are discriminated in this country for 24 years. You also know that the Ukrainian nation as well as the language had artificially been created by the Austrians and partly by the Poles. You also know that half of this state has nothing to do even with this artificial nation torn apart from the Russian world. Piece by piece it was composed of the Russian , Polish, Moldavian, Romanian , Slovak and Hungarian lands. Gallitzin people can merely be called Ukrainians as they lost contact with the Orthodox world 500 years ago. But as I had told you we need only 12 pure Russian regions. Neither do we ask for the rest of the Russian lands. Only those who shout and cry for being home to mainland Russia. So how dare you call us a “greedy imperialist power” ! I guess Ukraine is idea-fix not only of the two Z.Brzezinskies but of all the Poles. It must be the biggest figure on the Great Chess Desk but if you succeed your overseas master will need you even less than today. Just because there will be no more demand for Russophobia.

rote

I know that it is correct to claim that Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians share common origins from the same root from the times of Kievan Rus', and that Russia is de-facto operating within the boundaries of internal affairs (sort of like if Germans would in Austria, Serbs in Montenegro or Romanians in Moldova), but I am talking about imperialism from the perspective of intervention in the affairs of a sovereign and independent state, which the Russian state itself officially recognizes.

I know that much of Ukraine is pieced together from land of other countries, including Russian Novorossiya, Crimea and Donbass, but were not Novorossiya and Crimea only added to Russia in the 17th/18th Centuries and were they not subjected to Russification by Catherine the Great? Does this not make the whole of Southern Ukraine an imperial addition to Russia just three centuries ago?

While indeed Russians are a large minority in Eastern and Southern Ukraine, they are only the majority in Crimea, so would it not be imperialist to then further extend military intervention to other parts of Southeastern Ukraine and risk splitting the internationally recognized borders of Ukraine?

Also, I believe Aleksandr Dugin's and Vladimir Zhirinovsky's viewpoints regarding Ukraine are commonplace among many Russians, which also strengthens my argument.

For these reasons I called Russians imperialists in this case. And also because I am Polish. ;)

Where is NATO now?
(sj, 3 March 2014 22:09)

NATO is in Brussels leaving it to Russia to humiliate itself in Ukraine by showing a total lack of influence in the world. Ukraine is not a NATO member. However when we saw violations of human rights of Russian citizens in Estonia (actual violations, not imaginary ones like in Ukraine) we did not see Russia do anything like this, even though Estonia is a much weaker country compared to Ukraine. Sorry that I'm about make an heretic statement, but it appears being a NATO member makes a difference :)
----------

Here is another piece of very bad news lads, Russia now controls the Black Sea and entrance to the Danube River, but what most important it really does not really on selling energy to Europe as it can sell all it can produce to China.
(sj, 3 March 2014 22:09)

Thanks, but that's old news.... Russia controlled the Black Sea already so the Russians could have a place where to go to the beach; the Black Sea is very good for that.
----------

A new master is taking over Europe.
(sj, 3 March 2014 22:09)

That's great, if it makes you happy :) Your happiness is very important for us. A happy CE of B92 forums benefits all as it improves the quality of his/her thoughts and the resulting analysis.

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

Well, no insight your aware of. We are talking military flags just so you don't get off track.
(Omega, 3 March 2014 16:36)

Not sure that track provides any more insights that make sense :)
----------

The pilots of the 303 squadron fought with the British roundel yet took an oath to the legitimate Polish government. They took an oath to King George as well and later flew Polish roundels. Sometimes both at the same time.
(Omega, 3 March 2014 16:36)

Because the 303 squadron was part of RAF and, in any case, created by an agreement between the British and Polish governments.
----------

Australian Navy fought and displayed St George's ensign till 1967 (that's the British naval flag). They had their own National flag and independent government in 1901.
(Omega, 3 March 2014 16:36)

Well, Australia still has the British monarch as the Head of State. I'm not aware of Putin being the Head of State in Ukraine.

So, we still have not got any insights which make sense explaining how could a Ukranian naval flagship flying the Russian naval flag support a Ukrainian government!

How's this any different to what the America does all the time to some other country? They're always sending troops to bomb something or kill someone. Military personnel in 130 nations and over 900 overseas military bases? That's not ''peacekeeping'' folks, that's an empire. So lay off the Russians as it's grossly hypocritical.
(Al Mualima, 4 March 2014 17:12)

Well, we've not heard those 130 countries complaining about it :)

But even if you were to be correct and let's say that America is evil, that means that what you're saying is that Russia is evil too!

Putin sent in troops to "protect" Russians although no threat had yet materialized. US sent in its forces to stop a slaughter already in process.
(a New Day, 2 March 2014 14:16)
==============================
You Albanans are all playing smart arases.
You know very well that Ukraine was going to send their own troops there to squash any Russian supporters. It was only a matter of time.
Why wait for slaughter?
Now, you also know that the "slaughter" was not happening unless you count the slaugher of Serbs for their organs.

Russia can easily take the whole of Ukraine back in a formal commonwealth
(Omega, 2 March 2014 16:55)

No doubt about that, but there is a small problem that Ukrainians don't want that, because that commonwealth could bring everything except for wealth. But I'm sure Russia is strong enough to force Ukrainians to love Russia - that's the only way Russia can achieve it!

That could be WW III. The last one.
(adrian.timisoara.romania, 2 March 2014 00:02)

Typical little eichmans' response--soiling themselves and already planning under which color of rock to crawl under until the coast is clear.

Speaking of coasts, I am starting to get a more pronounced whiff of that Croat Ustasha seacoast.
Is it my imagination, or are the times really changin' this time? If not--THEY WILL--sooner or later.
Check out this newest short film with Dylan's lyrics in the background: "Who is Crying Over There???" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7K28ZJS-Ic

in my view as you go back in history Crimea wasn't part of Ukrain until Krushov make that a part of it when was USSR even he was a ukranian but probably he never dream USSR will break in peace's and as today the only think Russians are rushing they should play smarter as Germans did with them getting back the democratic Germany ..always the smart move wins never the war maybe you think you win but the pain and hate will stay forever....

"The 'Nazi' comments are being made here to push a propaganda stance - I think the democratic voice of Ukrainian people is being belittled because of Serb Nationalist bigotry and not because of any really intelligent comment about the reality for the people of Ukraine."
(Bob, 2 March 2014 19:59)

Yes, it always amazes me when Serbs yelling 'Nazi', though they probably have more right wing parties and other national extremists in their own country than in Germany and probably Ukraine, too.

Maybe they simply don't know that 'Nazi' doesn't translate to 'German', but means 'national socialists'?

Time will tell, maybe it was not so bad that Russia invaded parts of Ukraine right on time tom protect a threatened ethnic minority? Maybe this should have done in Serbia when Milosevic started to ban Albanian language in universities in Kosovo, to discriminate ethnic Albanians and coming up with his nationalist hate speeches? Who knows, maybe some war could have been avoided? The only problem was that Albania cannot compared to Russia with his military force.

"haha...if that split East-West were to happen, 50 years from now the Est will be like North Korea (supported by Russia) and the West will be like South Korea (supported by the West). But I'm sure Serb patriots would still tell us that everybody (except, of course, Serb patriots themselves) should be happy to live in North Korea, just for the sake of patriotism:)
(icj1, 2 March 2014 22:52)"

No, it's not that simple and not a good comparison. South Korea has an open market and close economic trade links with US, Japan and China, while North Korea is totally isolated from everyone, including Russia and China. All they have is their brand of communist isolationism and as a result, are what they are: a completely failed state, while South Korea is an economic powerhouse.

In the case of the Ukraine, it is different in that the East has the largest share of the major infrastructure (heavy industry, coastline/ports and a great deal of the agriculture), while the West really only has Kiev. Of course, the West is not totally helpless, but the disparity is big and in the case of a split, the Eastern part of the Ukraine will not be as hit as the Western part, who will be a charity case for the West and not integrated into the EU for MANY years.

While I wish all the best for Ukraine as a whole country and not one to be split by greedy imperialist powers, I fear the worst.

(The Count of Kosova, 3 March 2014 04:13)

That was 1999, today is 2014 and how the times have changed. Where is NATO now? As I said before the only discussions going in the corridors of NATO is who lost the cork screw bottle opener and nothing else. Yes, finally the US emperor has been shown as having no cloths as I have been saying for years – it’s broke as evident with the laughable offer to Ukraine of $1 billion in loans – yes only $1billion from the world’s biggest windbag. John Kerry went to Ukraine and offered hot air, but no military assistance. Why? When your in the process of closing bases …..money is an issue.
Let’s look at reality mate. As Russia supplies Europe with energy the EU should immediately cut off the gas to show Putin the errors of his ways? You have been smoking too much hooch if you think that is going to happen. The Germans are undermining any US efforts, as meagre as they are, of trying “to punish” Russia.
Here is another piece of very bad news lads, Russia now controls the Black Sea and entrance to the Danube River, but what most important it really does not really on selling energy to Europe as it can sell all it can produce to China.
The G8, what a joke, it’s nothing more than a bunch of former wealthy countries getting together for feel good drink.
A new master is taking over Europe.

Ukrainian ultra-nationalists have caused intolerance and their intentions are very well known with such greatest top hits as, introducing criminal penalties for their version of Ukrainophobia, ensure within 3 months Ukraine becomes a nuclear armed power, unlawful and unconstitutional 5 minute process to usurp the presidency and a few others below,

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/120329/ukraine-svoboda-nationalist-party-nazi-echoes-hitler-pt-2

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/02/24/Ukraine-Appoints-New-Posts-in-Government-Includes-Controversial-Svoboda-Party

Not propaganda but fact, some are too quick to be dismissive, but, where does that leave them.

Genetic/DNA comparisons are also useless, as the distinguishing ethnic marker between Croats and Serbs is their adherence to which faith they profess. Many Croats of South Dalmatia have often been referred to as Catholic Serbs by themselves and historical texts. Orthodox Ukrainians have also intermixed to a huge extent with Russians in the center, east, north and south whilst the far western Ukrainians are intermixed with Catholic Poles, Lithuanians etc. Forget the DNA. Consistent polls of Ukrainians show that between 2/3 to 90% have a positive opinion on Russia.


Correction on my previous post, it is the economically backward far west Ukraine.

If the Ukranian naval flagship is flying the Russian naval flag, that means that it support the government of Russia but not any (legitimate or illegitimate) Ukrainian government.
---------------------

Similar to these guys,

http://histmag.org/grafika/nws/spitfire.jpg


Some people here have really lost the ability to think coherently, it appears, otherwise it is hard to explain how flying the flag of country A shows support for the government of country B!
(icj1, 2 March 2014 22:46)

Thanks for the insight of whats going on, but, please it would be much healthier if you would cease speaking in the third person about yourself.

If you need any other material to help your coherence by all means drop me another post, i'm always here to help the challenged.

For these reasons I called Russians imperialists in this case. And also because I am Polish. ;)
(Peter Sudyka, 3 March 2014 14:56)

For that name-calling I have no other choice - but to ask you to settle the case with one bottle of Zubrowka if we ever meet. On my side - as a sign of good will I can bring you a "Barack" (NOT talking bout Obama here). Alternatively, a bottle of Stoli will work out, too (your choice).

We will need a third person of course because this kind of settlement is done "на троих" in RU and "за троицу" in SRB. Kind of hard - as I am in the States at this moment.

Szemi

WHAT I TOLD YOU !!!…!!
(rote, 3 March 2014 20:33)

Being Polish is not a sin. Unfortunately there was a great deal of quarrel in the last 500 years. Not our fault and not the fault of the people I personally know. But some on their side are extremely protective. I know some (in an unrelated place) who demonstrated much less maturity, are far more aggressive and direct their aggression towards their Russian peers who try their best to please the potential Polish guests. These imbeciles have to be told, their Russian hosts in SPB have nothing to do with the current crisis in UA and most likely have nothing to do with Putin himself. I really got upset at these smartasses. And guess what, they are normally nice people, fairly well-off, too, driving in Poland better cars than I drive in the States and having far better jobs (high-profile doctors) than I do as a programmer.

Anyway, I am happy to see both Szemi and Peter acting much more normal.

Now, you also know that the "slaughter" was not happening unless you count the slaugher of Serbs for their organs.
(Peggy, 2 March 2014 21:01)
Didn't get that memo, nor did the rest of the world. Maybe you should resend it but don't get your hopes up as no one is going to believe it. You might get a few ultranationalists sitting around in the bars of Belgrade that may agree with you but still they know the truth.

rote

Hahaha, come on, you know I was just pulling your leg with that comment. ;)

How's this any different to what the America does all the time to some other country? They're always sending troops to bomb something or kill someone. Military personnel in 130 nations and over 900 overseas military bases? That's not ''peacekeeping'' folks, that's an empire. So lay off the Russians as it's grossly hypocritical.

Peter you were pulling more than just his leg...............

Peter you were pulling more than just his leg...…..
(azir, 5 March 2014 19:21)

Don't know much about Peter, but If he is an Albanian and he thinks like you, he would most likely be pulling out the guys kidneys to sell.

Andy UK.
I fully agree. All should excerscise restraint in this situation, and try to reduce tensions.

Sorry, but can't accept the thanks because I did not offer any insight. Indeed it's impossible for anybody to offer any insight to the statement that flying the flag of country A shows support for the government of country B! Still waiting for your insights on that incoherent statement :)
(icj1, 3 March 2014 14:11)

Well, no insight your aware of. We are talking military flags just so you don't get off track.

The pilots of the 303 squadron fought with the British roundel yet took an oath to the legitimate Polish government. They took an oath to King George as well and later flew Polish roundels. Sometimes both at the same time.

Australian Navy fought and displayed St George's ensign till 1967 (that's the British naval flag). They had their own National flag and independent government in 1901.

Is it impossible they didn't have loyalty or support to either one of A: UK or B: Australia?

Peter

“And also because I am Polish”

AS SIMPLE AS THAT AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS !!!!!!!

Szemi

WHAT I TOLD YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The G8, what a joke, it’s nothing more than a bunch of former wealthy countries getting together for feel good drink.
A new master is taking over Europe.
(sj, 3 March 2014 22:09)
maybe you Wright or not in your comment but one think regarding the G8 maybe a joke for you but the 80% of the world wealth comes from there or short is there and they control the money if you like it or not and also I don't LIKE IT also but unfortunately its THE TRUTH......

Not sure that track provides any more insights that make sense :)
(icj1, 4 March 2014 06:12)

You wittingly or not tried to phony up my statement. Give yourself some rereading time and see if you can spot it. Just a bit of insightful clarification for you :)

----------

"Because the 303 squadron was part of RAF and, in any case, created by an agreement between the British and Polish governments."


Terrific, an example of a unit being loyal to both governments no matter how it was formed.

----------

"Well, Australia still has the British monarch as the Head of State. I'm not aware of Putin being the Head of State in Ukraine."

And yet they since saw fit to remove the ensign, how disloyal then. Do those scallywags realize the British monarch is still the head of state.

F.Y.I. the USS Winston Churchill is a ship under the command of the US head of State and flies the English ensign too.

Just when I thought the revolutionary war was long gone, those damn redcoats start making a late comeback. :)

So, we still have not got any insights which make sense explaining how could a Ukranian naval flagship flying the Russian naval flag support a Ukrainian government!
(icj1, 4 March 2014 06:12)

Here is how it works, The legitimate head of the Ukrainian Gov't gave the order for this ship to return to Crimea and not partake in the illegitimate Gov't order to mobilize.

At a time of brikmanship and confusion the Naval commander flew the Russian ensign to announce no ill intentions against members of the Russian army in Crimea under treaty or ARC territorial units. He faithfully executed the legitimate gov't order and has since moved on from his post.

This event has to a similar extent been repeated across the country with Ukrainian special forces and Ukrainian regular army units refusing the illegitimate government's mobilization order. As far as I'm aware the Ukrainian air force has stayed grounded and reservists have unanimously ignored the barking of the illegitimate gov't. The majority of Ukrainians don't want to be a far right wing fifth column it seems.

Just have to wait for the next elections instead of mass carnage thanks in part to those loyal actions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Y_wjT-530

Here is how it works, The legitimate head of the Ukrainian Gov't gave the order for this ship to return to Crimea and not partake in the illegitimate Gov't order to mobilize.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 22:08)

I'm not aware that Yatsenyuk, the head of the Ukrainian Gov't, has given that order. Can you illuminate us where you saw that order?!
----------

At a time of brikmanship and confusion the Naval commander flew the Russian ensign to announce no ill intentions against members of the Russian army in Crimea under treaty or ARC territorial units.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 22:08)

Assuming it is as you say, that does not explain how flying the Russian naval flag supports a Ukrainian government!
----------

He faithfully executed the legitimate gov't order and has since moved on from his post.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 22:08)

You still have not shown the order :)
----------

This event has to a similar extent been repeated across the country with Ukrainian special forces and Ukrainian regular army units refusing the illegitimate government's mobilization order. As far as I'm aware the Ukrainian air force has stayed grounded and reservists have unanimously ignored the barking of the illegitimate gov't. The majority of Ukrainians don't want to be a far right wing fifth column it seems.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 22:08)

Ok, assuming all the above is as you say, you still did not explain how flying the flag of country A means showing support for country B!

Terrific, an example of a unit being loyal to both governments no matter how it was formed.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 15:32)

OK, and then what ?!
----------

And yet they since saw fit to remove the ensign, how disloyal then. Do those scallywags realize the British monarch is still the head of state.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 15:32)

You can ask them, but still it does not show how flying the naval flag of Country A shows support for Country B
----------

F.Y.I. the USS Winston Churchill is a ship under the command of the US head of State and flies the English ensign too.
(Omega, 5 March 2014 15:32)

Nice info... so how does that show that flying the Russian Naval flag, means showing support for a Ukrainian government. Why not fly the Ukrainian flag?! We have some very serious lapses here which defy logical thinking :)