"Serbia cooperates, Šešelj trial should be stepped up"

Ned, I hear what your are saying however, I have been following this case for most of the time he has been in Hague, and 11 years is way too long for his side of "non obeyance". That said, I remember one thing that made me truly question the integrity of the Hague and that was when Dr. Seselj said "you will kill me in here.. I'm already ill and had 10 litres of fluid built in me without the Doctors picking up on it...." I'm not trusting the Hague any longer for proper processing of Justice. They are quite frankly a Joke.

Cheers

Better solution: Just abolish the ICTY.

Of course the ICTY court is not genuinely interested in crimes against Serbs - there have been Croats, Muslims, including Mujahideen who have been candid about torturing and murdering Serbs, but the ICTY nor the mainstream press will not touch those cases. They know that even mentioning them might wake up a few sheeple or endanger their narrative against Serbs, so they ignore or even suppress that kind of evidence. Meanwhile, Seselj, who has a big mouth and often just says things for effect or attention, is tried for things he's said but didn't literally mean.

Eleven years is clearly a very long time for anyone to spend in detention without a verdict being reached in their case. However, one needs to look at the reasons why this has happened. Failure to participate in the court process, reading out of statements including that the judge was only fit to suck him off, two contempt convictions, witness intimidation, Seselj's health............I agree that it is high time that the whole process was brought to a conclusion but that requires Seselj to a) be fit enough to appear in court or b) give permission for proceedings to continue in his absence. Karadzic and Mladic are playing the same games, as did Milosevic. It is their right to do so but they can hardly then complain if this delays the whole procedure. As to whether or not they should have been indicted/arrested in the first place, which will no doubt be the subject of other comments on this post, that long ceased to be relevant. They are not going to be un-indicted or un-arrested.

well, because the law is such a way that it allows for this sort of tomfoolery, it is then well within the rights of the accused to use every option offered to them within the structures of the legal system. it is then a condition upon the accusor to work within the system and loopholes to complete their job in a timely fashion. this is the crux of the point. the prosecution can't have it all their way and blame the accused each time a loop hole, or technicality is found or brought up. the prosecution should be very aware of the system they're working in and know how to navigate its pitfalls effectively.
11 years is not an effective navigation of a prosecutor who knows both what the destination is and how to arrive there. the prosecution looks lost if its still trying arrive at a verdict after 11 years of looking.
sometimes the system helps, and sometimes it hurts. however, the prosecution cannot take things personally, and must at some point either finalize their attempt to paint the picture their way or simply accept defeat and give up.

"Milanović also pointed to the importance of allowing ICTY inmates to serve their sentences in their native countries on the former Yugoslavia territory. "
Can someone ask Mr.Milanovic if he is joking in relation to this statement; as Seselj will not serve is term in Serbia as he was not born their. He would see out his day's in a jail in Sarajevo in his native Bosna i Herzegovina

With politicans and diplomates like this, one could say Serbia is a circus and it's president is the ring master and it's diplomates are all clowns. Keep it up guys!

Three contempt convictions totaling 57 months' worth of sentencing (that's half of the 11 years right there), hunger strikes and other forms of obstruction, poor health, an insistence on defending himself in court...and people wonder why he's been there so long. And someone on here calls ICTY supporters "sheeple"?? What about all Serbs who continue to buy all the BS spewed by their criminal politicians and military leaders? Seselj is a fork-tongued, twisted thug who led psychopath paramilitaries on a killing spree through Croatia and Bosnia at the very start of the wars in the early 90s. You can easily see the video footage for yourself online. Let's talk about facts, folks, not anti-Western fantasy.

"We truly believe that the trial is damaging the reputation of The Hague-based tribunal.

The Hague based tribunal doesn't have a reputation you idiot,when are you people going to stop collaborating with the people who attacked Serbia?

The latest delay is because Seselj asked for one judge to be removed. So they removed him, and now the judge appointed to replace him needs time to read everything that has been presented over the years. (A matter of months, not days.) Otherwise, you can imagine what kind of objection Seselj's defense team would make to a guilty sentence - one judge wasn't familiar with all the evidence, I want a retrial.

Cheers
(Amelia Marks, 6 December 2013, 18:36)
I don't quite understand why you took that particular statement to heart, if you truly have been following the case for all this time it is just another day another accusation he has thrown at the court to try and cause yet another delay. His health claims have always been a ploy to try to get a furlough from the Hague to disappear like his fellow defendants who were able to hide out the years he was in detention.

Mr Nelson Mandella passes away, leaving legacy of forgivness, hope and an example of how reconcilaition can overcome hate and injustice - the world mourns and sees ths great man as a hero.

Mr Vojislav Seselj was an instrument of hate towards non Serbs, led a paramilitary force that committed war crimes, supported genocide, division and ethnic cleaninsing, tells a judge he can "suck his c#@K" -and Serbs see him as a hero.

Kind of puts things in perspective dont you think.

Id suggest that certain Serbs reevaluate their definition of "Heroes".

Ans again you wonder why the rest of the world rolls their eyes!

Where it mentioned that "helpers must be punished" in this article that got me thinking that if someone in North America were harboring war criminals/fugitives that they should evidently be arrested so therefore and in this case if an American or a fellow Canadian is penalized for harboring war criminals/fugitives why should they get my sympathy when they don't deserve my sympathy.

I agree they need to end the trial of Seselj. They have 2 judges left that went through the whole trial. It takes 2out of three for a verdict. They only really need the third judge if they are in disagreement.
If they find him guilty they need to do so that the families can have closure, if they find him not guilty they need to move on and deal with his contempt convictions then let him go. They need to schedule a day for the verdict and if he feigns illness or other excuses not to be there, read the verdict in absentia. Enough games just get it over.

I have read all the transcripts http://www.icty.org/case/seselj/4#trans and if you merely read just the first four years, ( not very much to read ) you can hardly blame Seselj for delaying his trial. Although he had at times health problems, he never missed a day due to his illnesses and he participated all the time. He never intimidated witnesses, which you can easily see by reading the contempt trial transcripts. Instead it was a helpless attempt by the the prosecution to embellish Seselj's endless detainment. If you have the time to read all the transcripts, you will never again say it was Seselj's fault, that he had to endure 11 years of imprisonment. Just the last fact shows it all. The judges reserved themselves one and a half year to deliberate about the judgement. And they had already 5 years to think about all the facts. Did you ever hear about such a long time of deliberation? And then judge Hahrhoff who clearly wanted to end his participation in this disaster of a trial by sending his letter to 50 !!! people. Clearly, judge Harhoff knew, that one of them would make it public. What can you keep secret, when fifty randomly selected people know about it. Nothing., He wanted to get out of this trial, which was a disaster from the beginning till the end

Basically they have no case against any of these people.They defended the Serb nation as any patriot would do.There's no crime there in my view. More importantly the Serbian indictees have shown remarkable patience with these buffoons who sit in judgement on them.In terms of intelligence they appear to have been found wanting when exposed by Dr.Seselj's wonderfully powerful and humourous representations. By the way, where are those buggers from Amnesty International? They quick to cry foul if it's some Yank or Brit is detained for longer than a week!!

@Englishman:

Exactly who's side are you on??

since when is this about 'sides', New Brunswicker?

He would see out his day's in a jail in Sarajevo in his native Bosna i Herzegovina


You are the joke, Seselj was born in Yugoslavia and since Serbia is the predecessor of Yugoslavia and he is a serbian Citizen he would serve his sentence in Serbia.

@Danilo:

Perhaps you could explain to me why 'Englishman' is defending or staunchly defending Serbia? If you read or reread what he typed than you should realize what I mean by him taking sides.

Daniel,
Does it really matter? One of the original rules established when the ICTY was created was that no defendants would serve time in the Balkan region, so Seselj will not serve his time in either Bosnia, nor Serbia.
Serbia has been campaigning for this for some time but if you notice it has not received any support from the international community and the chances of the UNSC ordering a change is up there with Russia becoming a US territory.

Eleven years is clearly a very long time for anyone to spend in detention without a verdict being reached in their case. However, one needs to look at the reasons why this has happened. Failure to participate in the court process, reading out of statements including that the judge was only fit to suck him off, two contempt convictions, witness intimidation, Seselj's health............I agree that it is high time that the whole process was brought to a conclusion but that requires Seselj to a) be fit enough to appear in court or b) give permission for proceedings to continue in his absence. Karadzic and Mladic are playing the same games, as did Milosevic. It is their right to do so but they can hardly then complain if this delays the whole procedure. As to whether or not they should have been indicted/arrested in the first place, which will no doubt be the subject of other comments on this post, that long ceased to be relevant. They are not going to be un-indicted or un-arrested.

Ned, I hear what your are saying however, I have been following this case for most of the time he has been in Hague, and 11 years is way too long for his side of "non obeyance". That said, I remember one thing that made me truly question the integrity of the Hague and that was when Dr. Seselj said "you will kill me in here.. I'm already ill and had 10 litres of fluid built in me without the Doctors picking up on it...." I'm not trusting the Hague any longer for proper processing of Justice. They are quite frankly a Joke.

Cheers

Better solution: Just abolish the ICTY.

Of course the ICTY court is not genuinely interested in crimes against Serbs - there have been Croats, Muslims, including Mujahideen who have been candid about torturing and murdering Serbs, but the ICTY nor the mainstream press will not touch those cases. They know that even mentioning them might wake up a few sheeple or endanger their narrative against Serbs, so they ignore or even suppress that kind of evidence. Meanwhile, Seselj, who has a big mouth and often just says things for effect or attention, is tried for things he's said but didn't literally mean.

well, because the law is such a way that it allows for this sort of tomfoolery, it is then well within the rights of the accused to use every option offered to them within the structures of the legal system. it is then a condition upon the accusor to work within the system and loopholes to complete their job in a timely fashion. this is the crux of the point. the prosecution can't have it all their way and blame the accused each time a loop hole, or technicality is found or brought up. the prosecution should be very aware of the system they're working in and know how to navigate its pitfalls effectively.
11 years is not an effective navigation of a prosecutor who knows both what the destination is and how to arrive there. the prosecution looks lost if its still trying arrive at a verdict after 11 years of looking.
sometimes the system helps, and sometimes it hurts. however, the prosecution cannot take things personally, and must at some point either finalize their attempt to paint the picture their way or simply accept defeat and give up.

"Milanović also pointed to the importance of allowing ICTY inmates to serve their sentences in their native countries on the former Yugoslavia territory. "
Can someone ask Mr.Milanovic if he is joking in relation to this statement; as Seselj will not serve is term in Serbia as he was not born their. He would see out his day's in a jail in Sarajevo in his native Bosna i Herzegovina

With politicans and diplomates like this, one could say Serbia is a circus and it's president is the ring master and it's diplomates are all clowns. Keep it up guys!

Three contempt convictions totaling 57 months' worth of sentencing (that's half of the 11 years right there), hunger strikes and other forms of obstruction, poor health, an insistence on defending himself in court...and people wonder why he's been there so long. And someone on here calls ICTY supporters "sheeple"?? What about all Serbs who continue to buy all the BS spewed by their criminal politicians and military leaders? Seselj is a fork-tongued, twisted thug who led psychopath paramilitaries on a killing spree through Croatia and Bosnia at the very start of the wars in the early 90s. You can easily see the video footage for yourself online. Let's talk about facts, folks, not anti-Western fantasy.

"We truly believe that the trial is damaging the reputation of The Hague-based tribunal.

The Hague based tribunal doesn't have a reputation you idiot,when are you people going to stop collaborating with the people who attacked Serbia?

The latest delay is because Seselj asked for one judge to be removed. So they removed him, and now the judge appointed to replace him needs time to read everything that has been presented over the years. (A matter of months, not days.) Otherwise, you can imagine what kind of objection Seselj's defense team would make to a guilty sentence - one judge wasn't familiar with all the evidence, I want a retrial.

Cheers
(Amelia Marks, 6 December 2013, 18:36)
I don't quite understand why you took that particular statement to heart, if you truly have been following the case for all this time it is just another day another accusation he has thrown at the court to try and cause yet another delay. His health claims have always been a ploy to try to get a furlough from the Hague to disappear like his fellow defendants who were able to hide out the years he was in detention.

Mr Nelson Mandella passes away, leaving legacy of forgivness, hope and an example of how reconcilaition can overcome hate and injustice - the world mourns and sees ths great man as a hero.

Mr Vojislav Seselj was an instrument of hate towards non Serbs, led a paramilitary force that committed war crimes, supported genocide, division and ethnic cleaninsing, tells a judge he can "suck his c#@K" -and Serbs see him as a hero.

Kind of puts things in perspective dont you think.

Id suggest that certain Serbs reevaluate their definition of "Heroes".

Ans again you wonder why the rest of the world rolls their eyes!

Where it mentioned that "helpers must be punished" in this article that got me thinking that if someone in North America were harboring war criminals/fugitives that they should evidently be arrested so therefore and in this case if an American or a fellow Canadian is penalized for harboring war criminals/fugitives why should they get my sympathy when they don't deserve my sympathy.

I agree they need to end the trial of Seselj. They have 2 judges left that went through the whole trial. It takes 2out of three for a verdict. They only really need the third judge if they are in disagreement.
If they find him guilty they need to do so that the families can have closure, if they find him not guilty they need to move on and deal with his contempt convictions then let him go. They need to schedule a day for the verdict and if he feigns illness or other excuses not to be there, read the verdict in absentia. Enough games just get it over.

I have read all the transcripts http://www.icty.org/case/seselj/4#trans and if you merely read just the first four years, ( not very much to read ) you can hardly blame Seselj for delaying his trial. Although he had at times health problems, he never missed a day due to his illnesses and he participated all the time. He never intimidated witnesses, which you can easily see by reading the contempt trial transcripts. Instead it was a helpless attempt by the the prosecution to embellish Seselj's endless detainment. If you have the time to read all the transcripts, you will never again say it was Seselj's fault, that he had to endure 11 years of imprisonment. Just the last fact shows it all. The judges reserved themselves one and a half year to deliberate about the judgement. And they had already 5 years to think about all the facts. Did you ever hear about such a long time of deliberation? And then judge Hahrhoff who clearly wanted to end his participation in this disaster of a trial by sending his letter to 50 !!! people. Clearly, judge Harhoff knew, that one of them would make it public. What can you keep secret, when fifty randomly selected people know about it. Nothing., He wanted to get out of this trial, which was a disaster from the beginning till the end

Basically they have no case against any of these people.They defended the Serb nation as any patriot would do.There's no crime there in my view. More importantly the Serbian indictees have shown remarkable patience with these buffoons who sit in judgement on them.In terms of intelligence they appear to have been found wanting when exposed by Dr.Seselj's wonderfully powerful and humourous representations. By the way, where are those buggers from Amnesty International? They quick to cry foul if it's some Yank or Brit is detained for longer than a week!!

@Englishman:

Exactly who's side are you on??

since when is this about 'sides', New Brunswicker?

He would see out his day's in a jail in Sarajevo in his native Bosna i Herzegovina


You are the joke, Seselj was born in Yugoslavia and since Serbia is the predecessor of Yugoslavia and he is a serbian Citizen he would serve his sentence in Serbia.

@Danilo:

Perhaps you could explain to me why 'Englishman' is defending or staunchly defending Serbia? If you read or reread what he typed than you should realize what I mean by him taking sides.

Daniel,
Does it really matter? One of the original rules established when the ICTY was created was that no defendants would serve time in the Balkan region, so Seselj will not serve his time in either Bosnia, nor Serbia.
Serbia has been campaigning for this for some time but if you notice it has not received any support from the international community and the chances of the UNSC ordering a change is up there with Russia becoming a US territory.