Serbia, China, Hungary agree on railway deal

The EU is a disaster.
(Zoran, 26 November 2013 13:32

I couldn't agree with you more Zoran.But politician are not listening. They are doing the exact opposite of fixing the problem by allowing the production of more debt and not allowing the failing organisations to fail.There is no way back, no recovery , no fix , no resolution, no cure, you cannot solve a debt crisis by creating more debt.

But the most frustrating and perplexing for ordinary Greeks trying to discern is from where the political counter-attack will come, and led by whom? In particular, how has the entire Greek political class become so inveigled by the monster that is the European Union; by the tyranny of the Lisbon Treaty?

You know what? I have greater contempt for our own politicians than I have for the apparatchiks and bankers who make up 'The Troika" and who are now crushing the Greek people.

This is certainly the future. One where both China and Russia dominates this part of Europe and one where Serbia is the key to these investments.

Serbia is transit land and that mean that she must have an excellent railways and highways. This agreement is extremely important if Serbia want to become a modern state.

"Are you for real?"

Indeed he is and so are all of us who don´t believe in the "success story" of €USSR/Titanic. The 90´s are sooo far away, don't be shy little Otporista™, get real and break free you too....

Are you for real?
(self-fulfilling prophecy, 26 November 2013 12:25)
--
Of course I am, why wouldn't I be? Russia and China are making major investments in the regions while EU members are struggling to survive. So much so that Greeks are injecting themselves with HIV to get government benefits. Check -> http://rt.com/news/greece-hiv-euro-benefits-298

Russia and China are our future. The EU is a disaster. Will Scotland be independent next year? What about Catalonia, Basque and Flanders?

(Michael Thomas, 26 November 2013 14:56)

Although agreeing with your posting I have to clarify that neither the US nor the UK governments can create "interest free money" because both the Federal Reserve and Bank of England are private entities and money creation is their prerogative.Whenever the U.S. government wants to spend more money than it takes in taxes(which happens constantly), it has to go ask the Federal Reserve for it.The federal government gives U.S. Treasury bonds to the Federal Reserve, and the Federal Reserve gives the U.S. government "Federal Reserve Notes" in return. Usually this is just done electronically.When this new debt is created, the amount of interest that the U.S. government will eventually pay on that debt is not also created.So where will that money come from? Well, eventually the U.S. government will have to go back to the Federal Reserve to get even more money to finance the ever expanding debt that it has gotten itself trapped into.It is a debt spiral that is designed to go on perpetually like a Ponzi scheme.

The difference with the Chinese Central bank is that it's publicly owned and can print fresh interest-free money on the instructions of the Chinese government.

You're right of course in saying the Serbian Central bank cannot print interest free monies.

“China has said that it will set aside USD 10 billion for projects in Central and Eastern Europe.”

This is not as generous as it appears. Independent countries like China can print as much of its own currency as it chooses. So it can type 60,000,000,000 into its bank computer system and magically that money becomes real. 60 billion Yuan have been created out of nothing. This Chinese bank can then swap this money for $10 billion. This $10 billion was also created out of thin air by America, another independent country.

The Chinese then lend this $10 billion to Serbians and Hungarians at interest on condition that Chinese firms, employing Chinese workers, do these works.

Why don’t the Serbs and Hungarians just create their own money and employ their own people to do this work? Because Serbia and Hungary are not independent nations. Money creation is done by China, America, Britain, Germany, Russia and Brazil, and is forbidden for vassal states like Serbia and Hungary.

The interest paid for these unnecessary loans is a form of tribute that occupied nations pay to their masters.

If Serbia wants to be free and independent then it must take control over its own money.

Mirel from Albania

Are you suggesting that people in Greece in general have a better quality of life the Balkan countries or just the upper class? You are missinformed about the EU. A chech today works more per week then before the chech republic joined the EU but is still making the same amount of money. Romanian, bulgarian and slovak gypsies are flooding scandinavia coming here to beg and collect cans. That's how benifitial a EU membership has been for them. The EU is benificial only for the few.

(Mirel from Albania, 26 November 2013 16:17)

I am sorry to say that you've elevated the phrase "talking through my backside " to a new level and you sound like a total bag of bile.
Here are some ugly facts about Greece:
-There is no welfare office in Greece. Those that lose their jobs, find themselves in the streets.
-Health care is only for the working. The 28% of unemployed have lost their health care coverage.
Minimum wages and pensions have dropped to below subsistence levels and Greek purchasing power has dropped by 50% and this aggravates poverty. Basic necessities are simply out of reach for a large number of the population.
-Families have been the hardest as unemployment between young people (who usually have young children) stands at 65%.
-50% of the Greek net government income goes towards servicing the debt to German banks which leaves little room to the state to help the citizens of the country.
Presumably you also don't believe that there are Greeks who are having to pick through rubbish tips for food to feed themselves and their families.It also suffices to say that birth rates have declined by nearly 15%(amongst Greeks is a lot higher).

Get your facts right before you post your nonsense. Greece's per capita GDP in 1980 was $5621 Whereas Albania's was $831.

The EU won't pay, so what is wrong with Chinese money??? In Africa they actually build roads, hospitals, schools and infrastructure. All the west did since decolonization was to keep their former colonies in orbit by throwing money at corrupt dictators who kept it all and built almost nothing. Or is the EU like Jesus? You just have to wait (forever) until he rises?

If the deal is bad, then that is simply incompetence, but then again the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund have a long history of giving with one hand, and taking with the other.

(Emanuel from Romania, 26 November 2013 17:20)

Why do these countries want in? Simply because their politicians have promised the people that once in you will all be rich and live a happy life. The countries you mention are poor with high unemployment levels so the politicians (who by the way are paid by the EU to sing the praises of European Union) continue to dangle a carrot just out of reach. Romania has been in the Union for years now; why isn’t it a model of success?
“Why are there pro-EU demonstrations in the Ukraine these days?”
Simple, these are paid for and organised by the EU. Much like what happened in Serbia during the 1990s. The opposition would get money from western intelligence services and they promise people who go to the demos they will get free transport to and from the event, lunch plus money (when I was in Serbia during the 1990s I was offered transport, lunch and 30 Euros just to turn up). The demos in Ukraine are not about the EU. It’s a fight between the EU and Russia and Russia has won.
Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are beggar states that can’t live unless someone supports them.

China doesn’t have any loans; it prints the money it needs. The Americans organise things a little differently, their private banksters create money out of nothing and lend this to the American government at interest. This is just a racket as the govt could have created its own money for free.

Serbia could print as much of its own currency as it needs to be spent on infrastructure projects in Serbia, it doesn’t need “the confidence and trust of the world financial community” to do this.

No doubt Soros, Goldman Sachs and other members of the global banking Mafiosi would try to attack the Serbian Dinar to create the impression of “inflation.” To prevent this, the Dinar should be fixed and Serbia banks (mostly foreign owned) forbidden to trade it.

@Zoran

Are you for real?

"Russia and China are our future."

..and you are welcome to it. Hope it works out for you.

Isn't it time we all grew up. What is good for Serbia is good for the region and vice versa. JFK said we all care for our children's future. China, and Russia to a lesser extent, are major players, and Serbia would like all to benefit from our very good relations with these countries, as well as well as withhe Gulf states. The hand of friendship is out, are you big enough to take it? Personally, I am sick of trying.

"...Greeks are injecting themselves with HIV to get government benefits"

i don't for a second believe that this story is true (what sane human being would willingly inject him/herself with HIV), but if it is, it says a lot more about the principles of the individual Greeks than t ever does about the EU.

The EU is a disaster.
(Zoran, 26 November 2013 13:32

I couldn't agree with you more Zoran.(Leonidas, 26 November 2013 15:01)

Meanwhile, even in the mids of the crisis the living standard of an ordinary greek is at least 20 times higher than a russian,chinese,serb,indian,brasilian,cuban etc.

Is that because greeks are in EU?I think so!
EU may have a lot of shortcomings but they have made Greece a modern developed state.Remember before Greece entered in EU they used to live more or less like albanians under Hoxha and far worse than jugoslavians.

Some people forget to quick and just dont know how to judge.
Greece in EU was and is a good thing,my friends like it or not.If you dont like EU,just leave and go to Russia's union where people are living with 2-3 $/day.

Ironically,people like you who want to join Russia or China,are leaving conforably in EU or USA and they don't want to move back to Serbia or Greece.

(The Count of Kosova, 26 November 2013 23:55)

Your comparing Serbia and Greece with the U.S and China. Both Russia and China have acquired huge reserves of gold just in case. The Chinese have 4 trillion in foreign currency in reserve.
Well I can tell you now that US is not solvent since it now has a debt of 18 trillion and an economy that is supposed to be $16 trillion, but the facts are its more like a $9 trillion economy. The US economy has remained stagnant since 2008 despite the weekly BS of housing prices rising or employment increasing or stock market increasing. You have to remember that only 1% of US population own 90% of shares on the US stock market.
The US has an unemployment level of anywhere between 23% to 26% and this is a fact substantiated even be Nobel Prize winning US economists – they now openly speak of the US being in a depression.
Now hear is another word that is seeping out of the US academic halls of knowledge – Hyperinflation. Printing all this money for so long a period of time this is looking more a likely scenario than ever. Regardless of what is going on the US is not surviving this. It seems that about a dozen US sates want to declare bankruptcy with Utah leading the charge. Washington has threatened them with legal action if they try and do that, because once they do that then even their own rating agencies will have to down grade the US credit rating.

God help us all. Just go to youtube and look for videos regarding bridges collapsing and rail road accidents in China. The label "Made in China" means disaster in the making.

Zoran,

Why is Serbia desperate to start accession negotiations with the EU?

Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Albania all want to join the EU. Why is that?

Why do Moldova and Georgia want to initial an Association Agreement with the EU at the Vilnius Summit on 28 and 29 November?

Why are there pro-EU demonstrations in the Ukraine these days?

The EU is doing well and it is becoming stronger. Furthermore, the EU's common currency, the Euro, is a strong and attractive currency.

Latvia will adopt the Euro on 1 January 2014. The Eurozone will have 18 Member States on 1 January 2014.

Lithuania plans to adopt the Euro on 1 January 2015.

The interest paid for these unnecessary loans is a form of tribute that occupied nations pay to their masters.

If Serbia wants to be free and independent then it must take control over its own money.
(Michael Thomas, 26 November 2013 14:56)


Poor Michael,

I see you've been listening to "sj", the Serb-Australian financial whiz, channeling his "information" from a sage in Malaysia. This is your biggest mistake. Acquiring a basic education rather than relying on the Web Witchdoctor, sj, would benefit you greatly.

Just for your information, money does not become available to a country simply by turning on the Printing Press.
Unlike Serbia and Greece, the U.S, China and other financially solvent countries have the confidence and trust of the world financial community to be able to repay their debts. That is why Serbia can't "make" money out of thin air. And, that is why, my little idiot, Serbia's loans and the interest due on said loans are necessary and are not any form of tribute to your imaginary Masters.

The Chinese have 4 trillion in foreign currency in reserve.
Well I can tell you now that US is not solvent
(sj, 28 November 2013 00:32)

hmm, that's very bad news for those Chinese foreign currency reserves. Why do you hate the Chinese so much ?!

The EU is a disaster.
(Zoran, 26 November 2013 13:32

I couldn't agree with you more Zoran.(Leonidas, 26 November 2013 15:01)

Meanwhile, even in the mids of the crisis the living standard of an ordinary greek is at least 20 times higher than a russian,chinese,serb,indian,brasilian,cuban etc.

Is that because greeks are in EU?I think so!
EU may have a lot of shortcomings but they have made Greece a modern developed state.Remember before Greece entered in EU they used to live more or less like albanians under Hoxha and far worse than jugoslavians.

Some people forget to quick and just dont know how to judge.
Greece in EU was and is a good thing,my friends like it or not.If you dont like EU,just leave and go to Russia's union where people are living with 2-3 $/day.

Ironically,people like you who want to join Russia or China,are leaving conforably in EU or USA and they don't want to move back to Serbia or Greece.

@Zoran

Are you for real?

The interest paid for these unnecessary loans is a form of tribute that occupied nations pay to their masters.

If Serbia wants to be free and independent then it must take control over its own money.
(Michael Thomas, 26 November 2013 14:56)


Poor Michael,

I see you've been listening to "sj", the Serb-Australian financial whiz, channeling his "information" from a sage in Malaysia. This is your biggest mistake. Acquiring a basic education rather than relying on the Web Witchdoctor, sj, would benefit you greatly.

Just for your information, money does not become available to a country simply by turning on the Printing Press.
Unlike Serbia and Greece, the U.S, China and other financially solvent countries have the confidence and trust of the world financial community to be able to repay their debts. That is why Serbia can't "make" money out of thin air. And, that is why, my little idiot, Serbia's loans and the interest due on said loans are necessary and are not any form of tribute to your imaginary Masters.

"...Greeks are injecting themselves with HIV to get government benefits"

i don't for a second believe that this story is true (what sane human being would willingly inject him/herself with HIV), but if it is, it says a lot more about the principles of the individual Greeks than t ever does about the EU.

Zoran,

Why is Serbia desperate to start accession negotiations with the EU?

Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Albania all want to join the EU. Why is that?

Why do Moldova and Georgia want to initial an Association Agreement with the EU at the Vilnius Summit on 28 and 29 November?

Why are there pro-EU demonstrations in the Ukraine these days?

The EU is doing well and it is becoming stronger. Furthermore, the EU's common currency, the Euro, is a strong and attractive currency.

Latvia will adopt the Euro on 1 January 2014. The Eurozone will have 18 Member States on 1 January 2014.

Lithuania plans to adopt the Euro on 1 January 2015.

This is certainly the future. One where both China and Russia dominates this part of Europe and one where Serbia is the key to these investments.

Are you for real?
(self-fulfilling prophecy, 26 November 2013 12:25)
--
Of course I am, why wouldn't I be? Russia and China are making major investments in the regions while EU members are struggling to survive. So much so that Greeks are injecting themselves with HIV to get government benefits. Check -> http://rt.com/news/greece-hiv-euro-benefits-298

Russia and China are our future. The EU is a disaster. Will Scotland be independent next year? What about Catalonia, Basque and Flanders?

"Russia and China are our future."

..and you are welcome to it. Hope it works out for you.

"Are you for real?"

Indeed he is and so are all of us who don´t believe in the "success story" of €USSR/Titanic. The 90´s are sooo far away, don't be shy little Otporista™, get real and break free you too....

The EU is a disaster.
(Zoran, 26 November 2013 13:32

I couldn't agree with you more Zoran.But politician are not listening. They are doing the exact opposite of fixing the problem by allowing the production of more debt and not allowing the failing organisations to fail.There is no way back, no recovery , no fix , no resolution, no cure, you cannot solve a debt crisis by creating more debt.

But the most frustrating and perplexing for ordinary Greeks trying to discern is from where the political counter-attack will come, and led by whom? In particular, how has the entire Greek political class become so inveigled by the monster that is the European Union; by the tyranny of the Lisbon Treaty?

You know what? I have greater contempt for our own politicians than I have for the apparatchiks and bankers who make up 'The Troika" and who are now crushing the Greek people.

Isn't it time we all grew up. What is good for Serbia is good for the region and vice versa. JFK said we all care for our children's future. China, and Russia to a lesser extent, are major players, and Serbia would like all to benefit from our very good relations with these countries, as well as well as withhe Gulf states. The hand of friendship is out, are you big enough to take it? Personally, I am sick of trying.

(Emanuel from Romania, 26 November 2013 17:20)

Why do these countries want in? Simply because their politicians have promised the people that once in you will all be rich and live a happy life. The countries you mention are poor with high unemployment levels so the politicians (who by the way are paid by the EU to sing the praises of European Union) continue to dangle a carrot just out of reach. Romania has been in the Union for years now; why isn’t it a model of success?
“Why are there pro-EU demonstrations in the Ukraine these days?”
Simple, these are paid for and organised by the EU. Much like what happened in Serbia during the 1990s. The opposition would get money from western intelligence services and they promise people who go to the demos they will get free transport to and from the event, lunch plus money (when I was in Serbia during the 1990s I was offered transport, lunch and 30 Euros just to turn up). The demos in Ukraine are not about the EU. It’s a fight between the EU and Russia and Russia has won.
Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are beggar states that can’t live unless someone supports them.

“China has said that it will set aside USD 10 billion for projects in Central and Eastern Europe.”

This is not as generous as it appears. Independent countries like China can print as much of its own currency as it chooses. So it can type 60,000,000,000 into its bank computer system and magically that money becomes real. 60 billion Yuan have been created out of nothing. This Chinese bank can then swap this money for $10 billion. This $10 billion was also created out of thin air by America, another independent country.

The Chinese then lend this $10 billion to Serbians and Hungarians at interest on condition that Chinese firms, employing Chinese workers, do these works.

Why don’t the Serbs and Hungarians just create their own money and employ their own people to do this work? Because Serbia and Hungary are not independent nations. Money creation is done by China, America, Britain, Germany, Russia and Brazil, and is forbidden for vassal states like Serbia and Hungary.

The interest paid for these unnecessary loans is a form of tribute that occupied nations pay to their masters.

If Serbia wants to be free and independent then it must take control over its own money.

God help us all. Just go to youtube and look for videos regarding bridges collapsing and rail road accidents in China. The label "Made in China" means disaster in the making.

Mirel from Albania

Are you suggesting that people in Greece in general have a better quality of life the Balkan countries or just the upper class? You are missinformed about the EU. A chech today works more per week then before the chech republic joined the EU but is still making the same amount of money. Romanian, bulgarian and slovak gypsies are flooding scandinavia coming here to beg and collect cans. That's how benifitial a EU membership has been for them. The EU is benificial only for the few.

(The Count of Kosova, 26 November 2013 23:55)

Your comparing Serbia and Greece with the U.S and China. Both Russia and China have acquired huge reserves of gold just in case. The Chinese have 4 trillion in foreign currency in reserve.
Well I can tell you now that US is not solvent since it now has a debt of 18 trillion and an economy that is supposed to be $16 trillion, but the facts are its more like a $9 trillion economy. The US economy has remained stagnant since 2008 despite the weekly BS of housing prices rising or employment increasing or stock market increasing. You have to remember that only 1% of US population own 90% of shares on the US stock market.
The US has an unemployment level of anywhere between 23% to 26% and this is a fact substantiated even be Nobel Prize winning US economists – they now openly speak of the US being in a depression.
Now hear is another word that is seeping out of the US academic halls of knowledge – Hyperinflation. Printing all this money for so long a period of time this is looking more a likely scenario than ever. Regardless of what is going on the US is not surviving this. It seems that about a dozen US sates want to declare bankruptcy with Utah leading the charge. Washington has threatened them with legal action if they try and do that, because once they do that then even their own rating agencies will have to down grade the US credit rating.

Serbia is transit land and that mean that she must have an excellent railways and highways. This agreement is extremely important if Serbia want to become a modern state.

(Michael Thomas, 26 November 2013 14:56)

Although agreeing with your posting I have to clarify that neither the US nor the UK governments can create "interest free money" because both the Federal Reserve and Bank of England are private entities and money creation is their prerogative.Whenever the U.S. government wants to spend more money than it takes in taxes(which happens constantly), it has to go ask the Federal Reserve for it.The federal government gives U.S. Treasury bonds to the Federal Reserve, and the Federal Reserve gives the U.S. government "Federal Reserve Notes" in return. Usually this is just done electronically.When this new debt is created, the amount of interest that the U.S. government will eventually pay on that debt is not also created.So where will that money come from? Well, eventually the U.S. government will have to go back to the Federal Reserve to get even more money to finance the ever expanding debt that it has gotten itself trapped into.It is a debt spiral that is designed to go on perpetually like a Ponzi scheme.

The difference with the Chinese Central bank is that it's publicly owned and can print fresh interest-free money on the instructions of the Chinese government.

You're right of course in saying the Serbian Central bank cannot print interest free monies.

(Mirel from Albania, 26 November 2013 16:17)

I am sorry to say that you've elevated the phrase "talking through my backside " to a new level and you sound like a total bag of bile.
Here are some ugly facts about Greece:
-There is no welfare office in Greece. Those that lose their jobs, find themselves in the streets.
-Health care is only for the working. The 28% of unemployed have lost their health care coverage.
Minimum wages and pensions have dropped to below subsistence levels and Greek purchasing power has dropped by 50% and this aggravates poverty. Basic necessities are simply out of reach for a large number of the population.
-Families have been the hardest as unemployment between young people (who usually have young children) stands at 65%.
-50% of the Greek net government income goes towards servicing the debt to German banks which leaves little room to the state to help the citizens of the country.
Presumably you also don't believe that there are Greeks who are having to pick through rubbish tips for food to feed themselves and their families.It also suffices to say that birth rates have declined by nearly 15%(amongst Greeks is a lot higher).

Get your facts right before you post your nonsense. Greece's per capita GDP in 1980 was $5621 Whereas Albania's was $831.

China doesn’t have any loans; it prints the money it needs. The Americans organise things a little differently, their private banksters create money out of nothing and lend this to the American government at interest. This is just a racket as the govt could have created its own money for free.

Serbia could print as much of its own currency as it needs to be spent on infrastructure projects in Serbia, it doesn’t need “the confidence and trust of the world financial community” to do this.

No doubt Soros, Goldman Sachs and other members of the global banking Mafiosi would try to attack the Serbian Dinar to create the impression of “inflation.” To prevent this, the Dinar should be fixed and Serbia banks (mostly foreign owned) forbidden to trade it.

The EU won't pay, so what is wrong with Chinese money??? In Africa they actually build roads, hospitals, schools and infrastructure. All the west did since decolonization was to keep their former colonies in orbit by throwing money at corrupt dictators who kept it all and built almost nothing. Or is the EU like Jesus? You just have to wait (forever) until he rises?

If the deal is bad, then that is simply incompetence, but then again the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund have a long history of giving with one hand, and taking with the other.

The Chinese have 4 trillion in foreign currency in reserve.
Well I can tell you now that US is not solvent
(sj, 28 November 2013 00:32)

hmm, that's very bad news for those Chinese foreign currency reserves. Why do you hate the Chinese so much ?!