EU ministers: Talks date in January at latest

If Serbia begins accession negotiations in January 2014 the country will join the EU in 2022.

Just look at Croatia. Croatia began accession negotiations in October 2005 and will join the EU on 1 July 2013.

It will never happen! Serbia, has the remarkable ability to screw things up, she will defiantly fail! Just look at history, Serbia always causes some kind of great turmoil!

"Fule especially underlined that there are no new conditions for Serbia, nor there has been any shifting of the goalposts."

The Fule speaks too soon.

Romania will join Schengen in 2190 and fulfill the basic acquis communautaire in 2184 (but still before Bulgaria), something it should have done by 2010. Who still says the EU is not a giant joke?

If Serbia begins accession negotiations in January 2014 the country will join the EU in 2022.

Just look at Croatia. Croatia began accession negotiations in October 2005 and will join the EU on 1 July 2013.
(Mircea EU citizen, 26 June 2013 11:09)

True, but you are forgetting that whilst Croatia was negotiating with the EU, Serbia was carrying out reforms to bring its laws and living standards close to those of the EU...
Serbia can take a much lesser time.

Who still says the EU is not a giant joke?
(EU Dude, 26 June 2013 14:23)
An organization that says you need to do this, and Serbia says ok we will do this but then does not do it and the organization is a joke. They insist that Serbia honor its word and implements that which it says it WILL, but have not done so far. You think it is a joke that the EU or anyone does not really trust Serbia to keep its word without pressure to do so?
Serbia literally walked out of signing an agreement and then blocked Kosovo from attending a regional meeting, that act is probably one of the deciding factors in that it showed NO sincerity in its commitment to normalize relations.
As everyone knows no one is forcing Serbia to join the EU and you and others here strongly oppose it joining. The problem is the protests always come from Serbs who are living in the EU and for some reason they do not want other Serbs to have the same advantages they do. My thoughts are that if you can keep Serbia repressed then when you drive your fancy car home to visit and tell how successful you are then you maintain that extra status, if Serbia is allowed to catch up with the other countries then no one will notice you when you go for a visit.
Otherwise you all would be rushing home to that Utopia that has not yet been tainted by the EU.

@think again
the GDP numbers are taken from the IMF website

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2010/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2008&ey=2015&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=942&s=NGDP_R%2CNGDP_RPCH%2CNGDP%2CNGDPD%2CNGDP_D%2CNGDPRPC%2CNGDPPC%2CNGDPDPC%2CPPPGDP%2CPPPPC%2CPPPSH%2CPPPEX%2CPCPI%2CPCPIPCH%2CPCPIE%2CPCPIEPCH%2CLP%2CBCA%2CBCA_NGDPD&grp=0&a=&pr.x=46&pr.y=6

@Mircea EU citizen
Serbia is more ready for EU now than Croatia was when they started negotiating, the EC's assessment at start of Croatia's membership talks was clearly worse than the EC's assessment for Serbia now, to confirm this info you can read the articles of Serbia's and Croatia's EU accession bids on Wikipedia, go and see for yourself, just check the Colored table. One more thing, the standard of living of Serbian citizens is better than that of Romanians and Bulgarians which are already EU members. I did not make this up, I visited the 3 countries a month ago and clearly noticed the differences. The GDP per capita (nominal) of Serbia is already higher than that of Bulgaria ($7,136 vs $7,033), population bellow poverty line of Serbia is 9.2% way lower than Bulgaria or Romania (21% and 22.2%), GDP growth rate of Serbia is much higher, Average gross salary is also higher than both countries ($662 vs $608 and $509). The numbers say it all!

Serbia is more ready for EU now than Croatia was when they started negotiating, the EC's assessment at start of Croatia's membership talks was clearly worse than the EC's assessment for Serbia now, to confirm this info you can read the articles of Serbia's and Croatia's EU accession bids on Wikipedia, go and see for yourself, just check the Colored table. One more thing, the standard of living of Serbian citizens is better than that of Romanians and Bulgarians which are already EU members. I did not make this up, I visited the 3 countries a month ago and clearly noticed the differences. The GDP per capita (nominal) of Serbia is already higher than that of Bulgaria ($7,136 vs $7,033), population bellow poverty line of Serbia is 9.2% way lower than Bulgaria or Romania (21% and 22.2%), GDP growth rate of Serbia is much higher, Average gross salary is also higher than both countries ($662 vs $608 and $509). The numbers say it all!
(Austrian guy, 26 June 2013 19:18)

Everyone knows that Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU prematurely. The only reason they were allowed to join so early, was to stop Russia getting their hands on them. Bulgaria and Romania should be joining the EU in 2020-2022 with Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and possibly Turkey.

I think once Croatia joins the EU next week, it'll be a long time before the EU admits any more new members. The EU has a lot of problems which need resolving before further expansion is to take place.

Austrian guy, 26 June 2013 19:18)
I find no sources that support your claims about GDP not even remotely. Every month B92 publishes the average salary in Serbia which is about 25% below your claims. Only 9% below the poverty line?

@think again
the GDP numbers are taken from the IMF website

[link]
(Austrian guy, 27 June 2013 15:26)

Didn't you know, the Illyrians are descended from the Vulcans? Their logic and reasoning is perfect (as long as you are only an albanian) and why they have names like think again.

@think again
The population bellow poverty line is taken from the CIA website

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2046.html

other figures can be found here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_serbia

Or maybe Euro-sceptisism is at its strongest among the Serbian diaspora, because they have experienced first-hand themselves how the EU-system works in reality. Just as the most Euro-sceptic regions inside Serbia itselves is those districts in Southern-Serbia, which is close to Kosovo and Metohija. As we all know, these Southern-Serbs are the only ones which has been subjudged by the Eurocrats from Brussels' "EU-protectorate of Kosova" experiment. While the elite in Belgrade still live in their dream of fat-cats fluffy EU fantasy.

Lasse.

Everyone knows that Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU prematurely. The only reason they were allowed to join so early, was to stop Russia getting their hands on them."

No wonder the UK is incapable of winning the Eurovision. You can't get much more poorly informed than this.

Austrian Guy the IMF numbers you show are projections based off of 2008 numbers look at charts that are based off of 2010 or 2011 numbers and you will see Serbia way behind both countries and very far behind Romania.
Also on the website for the CIA you will note that poverty level varies from nation to nation. Serbia may have set their poverty level very high for the actual demographics(this I do not know but 9% sounds a little low when you have people trying to live on 50 euro a month pensions and an aging population)

Also if you look up GDP by country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

You will find Serbia far behind either Bulgaria or Romania.

True, but you are forgetting that whilst Croatia was negotiating with the EU, Serbia was carrying out reforms to bring its laws and living standards close to those of the EU...
Serbia can take a much lesser time.
(Heinz, 26 June 2013 15:29)
This is true it can go much quicker but will it? Or will the need for Serbs to show those pesky Albanians a thing or two and spend most of their energy trying to keep Kosovo repressed instead of advancing Serbia be the inhibiting factor?

The GDP per capita (nominal) of Serbia is already higher than that of Bulgaria ($7,136 vs $7,033), population bellow poverty line of Serbia is 9.2% way lower than Bulgaria or Romania (21% and 22.2%), GDP growth rate of Serbia is much higher, Average gross salary is also higher than both countries ($662 vs $608 and $509). The numbers say it all!
(Austrian guy, 26 June 2013 19:18)

When you compare countries, you have to do that appples-to-apples.... and GDP/capita (nominal) or avg salary is not apples-to-apples. A simple example for you to understand: if the avg salary in Serbia is $662 and in Bulgaria is $608, but 1kg of apples costs $2 in Serbia but $1 in Bulgaria, the avg salary being higher in Serbia does not help the apple eaters much, since the amount of apples you could buy with it is less than what you could buy with the lower salary in Bulgaria.

Which is why the (less distinguished) colleagues of the CE of B92 forums sj have invented this thing called PPP (purchasing power parity) to compare countries apples-to-apples, after adjusting for the cost of living. And here is the result from your same source (IMF) for the GDP/capita at PPP:

Bulgaria $ 14,312
Romania $ 12,808
Serbia $ 10,405

So, yes, Serbia has slightly higher wages and GDP/capita (nominal) but much higher cost of living, as well, which, in balance, make living standards in Serbia worse. The numbers say it all!

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

#think again
alright forget about GDP numbers, look at GDP growth rates. Also you do not define poverty the way you just did, poverty in economic terms is a state or condition in which a person or community lacks the financial resources and essentials to enjoy a minimum standard of life and well-being that's considered acceptable in society. In other words, they can't find good food to eat or a good place to stay, which makes 9% logical, of course more than 9% consider themselves poor but they really aren't, they have food and shelter guaranteed (as well as education and health insurance surely). You seem to insist that Bulgarians and Romanians are better of than Serbians, so I'd suggest you visit these 2 countries and see for yourself! Have a tour around the Roma areas and compare how they live there and how well-off they are in Serbia, they face much less discrimination and social exclusion in Serbia.
The GDP list in Wikipedia is outdated, though it gives higher numbers for Bulgaria and Romania, maybe the numbers are still higher but that doesn't matter much, they are VERY CLOSE, the numbers are estimates anyway. I believe Serbia's GDP per capita number was higher some years ago.
You can read these two links, they may convince you, they have some people's reviews on the comparison.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070619070718AAXJh3j
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080429120236AAnDi1F

@icj1
lol, I'd suggest the apple-eater in Serbia abandons eating apples and eats raspberries, or tell me they are cheaper in Bulgaria? Some goods are cheap in Bulgaria others are cheap in Serbia too. However go ask Bulgarians themselves, they will tell you they are poorer trust me. Austrian guy is right but his GDP numbers may not be accurate, but GDP numbers are just estimates.

@think again
It does not matter! Which country is richer? which citizens are happier? go ask anyone but Albanians and they'll tell you! *sigh* !

It will never happen! Serbia, has the remarkable ability to screw things up, she will defiantly fail! Just look at history, Serbia always causes some kind of great turmoil!

"Fule especially underlined that there are no new conditions for Serbia, nor there has been any shifting of the goalposts."

The Fule speaks too soon.

Romania will join Schengen in 2190 and fulfill the basic acquis communautaire in 2184 (but still before Bulgaria), something it should have done by 2010. Who still says the EU is not a giant joke?

If Serbia begins accession negotiations in January 2014 the country will join the EU in 2022.

Just look at Croatia. Croatia began accession negotiations in October 2005 and will join the EU on 1 July 2013.

If Serbia begins accession negotiations in January 2014 the country will join the EU in 2022.

Just look at Croatia. Croatia began accession negotiations in October 2005 and will join the EU on 1 July 2013.
(Mircea EU citizen, 26 June 2013 11:09)

True, but you are forgetting that whilst Croatia was negotiating with the EU, Serbia was carrying out reforms to bring its laws and living standards close to those of the EU...
Serbia can take a much lesser time.

Who still says the EU is not a giant joke?
(EU Dude, 26 June 2013 14:23)
An organization that says you need to do this, and Serbia says ok we will do this but then does not do it and the organization is a joke. They insist that Serbia honor its word and implements that which it says it WILL, but have not done so far. You think it is a joke that the EU or anyone does not really trust Serbia to keep its word without pressure to do so?
Serbia literally walked out of signing an agreement and then blocked Kosovo from attending a regional meeting, that act is probably one of the deciding factors in that it showed NO sincerity in its commitment to normalize relations.
As everyone knows no one is forcing Serbia to join the EU and you and others here strongly oppose it joining. The problem is the protests always come from Serbs who are living in the EU and for some reason they do not want other Serbs to have the same advantages they do. My thoughts are that if you can keep Serbia repressed then when you drive your fancy car home to visit and tell how successful you are then you maintain that extra status, if Serbia is allowed to catch up with the other countries then no one will notice you when you go for a visit.
Otherwise you all would be rushing home to that Utopia that has not yet been tainted by the EU.

@Mircea EU citizen
Serbia is more ready for EU now than Croatia was when they started negotiating, the EC's assessment at start of Croatia's membership talks was clearly worse than the EC's assessment for Serbia now, to confirm this info you can read the articles of Serbia's and Croatia's EU accession bids on Wikipedia, go and see for yourself, just check the Colored table. One more thing, the standard of living of Serbian citizens is better than that of Romanians and Bulgarians which are already EU members. I did not make this up, I visited the 3 countries a month ago and clearly noticed the differences. The GDP per capita (nominal) of Serbia is already higher than that of Bulgaria ($7,136 vs $7,033), population bellow poverty line of Serbia is 9.2% way lower than Bulgaria or Romania (21% and 22.2%), GDP growth rate of Serbia is much higher, Average gross salary is also higher than both countries ($662 vs $608 and $509). The numbers say it all!

Or maybe Euro-sceptisism is at its strongest among the Serbian diaspora, because they have experienced first-hand themselves how the EU-system works in reality. Just as the most Euro-sceptic regions inside Serbia itselves is those districts in Southern-Serbia, which is close to Kosovo and Metohija. As we all know, these Southern-Serbs are the only ones which has been subjudged by the Eurocrats from Brussels' "EU-protectorate of Kosova" experiment. While the elite in Belgrade still live in their dream of fat-cats fluffy EU fantasy.

Lasse.

Austrian guy, 26 June 2013 19:18)
I find no sources that support your claims about GDP not even remotely. Every month B92 publishes the average salary in Serbia which is about 25% below your claims. Only 9% below the poverty line?

Everyone knows that Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU prematurely. The only reason they were allowed to join so early, was to stop Russia getting their hands on them."

No wonder the UK is incapable of winning the Eurovision. You can't get much more poorly informed than this.

True, but you are forgetting that whilst Croatia was negotiating with the EU, Serbia was carrying out reforms to bring its laws and living standards close to those of the EU...
Serbia can take a much lesser time.
(Heinz, 26 June 2013 15:29)
This is true it can go much quicker but will it? Or will the need for Serbs to show those pesky Albanians a thing or two and spend most of their energy trying to keep Kosovo repressed instead of advancing Serbia be the inhibiting factor?

Serbia is more ready for EU now than Croatia was when they started negotiating, the EC's assessment at start of Croatia's membership talks was clearly worse than the EC's assessment for Serbia now, to confirm this info you can read the articles of Serbia's and Croatia's EU accession bids on Wikipedia, go and see for yourself, just check the Colored table. One more thing, the standard of living of Serbian citizens is better than that of Romanians and Bulgarians which are already EU members. I did not make this up, I visited the 3 countries a month ago and clearly noticed the differences. The GDP per capita (nominal) of Serbia is already higher than that of Bulgaria ($7,136 vs $7,033), population bellow poverty line of Serbia is 9.2% way lower than Bulgaria or Romania (21% and 22.2%), GDP growth rate of Serbia is much higher, Average gross salary is also higher than both countries ($662 vs $608 and $509). The numbers say it all!
(Austrian guy, 26 June 2013 19:18)

Everyone knows that Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU prematurely. The only reason they were allowed to join so early, was to stop Russia getting their hands on them. Bulgaria and Romania should be joining the EU in 2020-2022 with Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and possibly Turkey.

I think once Croatia joins the EU next week, it'll be a long time before the EU admits any more new members. The EU has a lot of problems which need resolving before further expansion is to take place.

@think again
the GDP numbers are taken from the IMF website

[link]
(Austrian guy, 27 June 2013 15:26)

Didn't you know, the Illyrians are descended from the Vulcans? Their logic and reasoning is perfect (as long as you are only an albanian) and why they have names like think again.

The GDP per capita (nominal) of Serbia is already higher than that of Bulgaria ($7,136 vs $7,033), population bellow poverty line of Serbia is 9.2% way lower than Bulgaria or Romania (21% and 22.2%), GDP growth rate of Serbia is much higher, Average gross salary is also higher than both countries ($662 vs $608 and $509). The numbers say it all!
(Austrian guy, 26 June 2013 19:18)

When you compare countries, you have to do that appples-to-apples.... and GDP/capita (nominal) or avg salary is not apples-to-apples. A simple example for you to understand: if the avg salary in Serbia is $662 and in Bulgaria is $608, but 1kg of apples costs $2 in Serbia but $1 in Bulgaria, the avg salary being higher in Serbia does not help the apple eaters much, since the amount of apples you could buy with it is less than what you could buy with the lower salary in Bulgaria.

Which is why the (less distinguished) colleagues of the CE of B92 forums sj have invented this thing called PPP (purchasing power parity) to compare countries apples-to-apples, after adjusting for the cost of living. And here is the result from your same source (IMF) for the GDP/capita at PPP:

Bulgaria $ 14,312
Romania $ 12,808
Serbia $ 10,405

So, yes, Serbia has slightly higher wages and GDP/capita (nominal) but much higher cost of living, as well, which, in balance, make living standards in Serbia worse. The numbers say it all!

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

Austrian Guy the IMF numbers you show are projections based off of 2008 numbers look at charts that are based off of 2010 or 2011 numbers and you will see Serbia way behind both countries and very far behind Romania.
Also on the website for the CIA you will note that poverty level varies from nation to nation. Serbia may have set their poverty level very high for the actual demographics(this I do not know but 9% sounds a little low when you have people trying to live on 50 euro a month pensions and an aging population)

Also if you look up GDP by country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

You will find Serbia far behind either Bulgaria or Romania.

@think again
the GDP numbers are taken from the IMF website

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2010/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2008&ey=2015&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=942&s=NGDP_R%2CNGDP_RPCH%2CNGDP%2CNGDPD%2CNGDP_D%2CNGDPRPC%2CNGDPPC%2CNGDPDPC%2CPPPGDP%2CPPPPC%2CPPPSH%2CPPPEX%2CPCPI%2CPCPIPCH%2CPCPIE%2CPCPIEPCH%2CLP%2CBCA%2CBCA_NGDPD&grp=0&a=&pr.x=46&pr.y=6

@think again
The population bellow poverty line is taken from the CIA website

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2046.html

other figures can be found here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_serbia

#think again
alright forget about GDP numbers, look at GDP growth rates. Also you do not define poverty the way you just did, poverty in economic terms is a state or condition in which a person or community lacks the financial resources and essentials to enjoy a minimum standard of life and well-being that's considered acceptable in society. In other words, they can't find good food to eat or a good place to stay, which makes 9% logical, of course more than 9% consider themselves poor but they really aren't, they have food and shelter guaranteed (as well as education and health insurance surely). You seem to insist that Bulgarians and Romanians are better of than Serbians, so I'd suggest you visit these 2 countries and see for yourself! Have a tour around the Roma areas and compare how they live there and how well-off they are in Serbia, they face much less discrimination and social exclusion in Serbia.
The GDP list in Wikipedia is outdated, though it gives higher numbers for Bulgaria and Romania, maybe the numbers are still higher but that doesn't matter much, they are VERY CLOSE, the numbers are estimates anyway. I believe Serbia's GDP per capita number was higher some years ago.
You can read these two links, they may convince you, they have some people's reviews on the comparison.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070619070718AAXJh3j
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080429120236AAnDi1F

@icj1
lol, I'd suggest the apple-eater in Serbia abandons eating apples and eats raspberries, or tell me they are cheaper in Bulgaria? Some goods are cheap in Bulgaria others are cheap in Serbia too. However go ask Bulgarians themselves, they will tell you they are poorer trust me. Austrian guy is right but his GDP numbers may not be accurate, but GDP numbers are just estimates.

@think again
It does not matter! Which country is richer? which citizens are happier? go ask anyone but Albanians and they'll tell you! *sigh* !