23

Saturday, 25.05.2013.

15:12

DSS leader: EU asking Serbia to renounce part of territory

Serbia has had good intentions toward the EU but Brussels has taken advantage of it by setting conditions that no country has ever had to fulfill.

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23 Komentari

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icj1

pre 10 godina

legally kosovo is still a part of serbia under international law .. the icj only said that the DECELERATION didnt violate international law, which is fine it didn’t
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Ok, good, at least we agree that what Serbs shouted for two years that the declaration was illegal and bla, bla, bla… was all lies. As for the rest, you are more than welcome to continue searching for the international law that makes Kosovo part of Serbia. Let us know when you finish that research and publish the results for academic discussions… I’m sure it will be a hot debate :)
----------

however the ATTEMPTED SECESSION does violate international law under the un charter, resolution 1244 and the helsinki act as all three guarantee a nation's sovereignty and territorial integrity ..
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

The Declaration of Independence did not violate any of the things you mentioned above; therefore any act which is in accordance with that Declaration of Independence does not violate any of the above; simple logic.

icj1

pre 10 godina

you are a little confused i think, it was a unilateral deceleration because there was no agreement in place, it doesnt make a difference how many countries helped you, the only country that really mattered was serbia and there was no agreement in place with them so it was a unilateral deceleration
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Of course, the only country that matters for Serbia is Serbia. But unfortunately Serbia does not control what the other countries consider as what matters or not, despite the fact that Serbs might think they that they are the masters of the universe :)
----------

.. if there was not an issue with this then why is the west so desperate for serbia to concede this,
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Just a small correction; it’s Serbia that is so desperate to get the West to get desperate to do that!
----------

thats cuz it aint over and kosovo aint independent, its in limbo status and they know it ...
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

If Serbia is not controlling what happens in Kosovo means that “kosovo aint independent”, then Kosovo is just fine with “kosovo aint independent”.

icj1

pre 10 godina

think of it this way, if you say or declare that you will do something criminal, they aint illegal, but if you actually do it then it becomes illegal ..
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Really?! So if I threaten somebody that I’ll kill him I don’t commit a crime ?! What country do you live in dear where threating the life of somebody is not a crime? Sure, it is a lesser crime than actually doing it, but it is still a crime. Also don’t forget that Serbia considered the authors of the declaration of independence to have committed a crime, even though it was just a declaration. It is Serbia itself that has rejected all of this convoluted logic that you are coming up, dear :)
----------

like i said before kosovo is still legal seen as part of serbia which is why the other day us companies were negotiating with the serbian government about the trepeca mines in kosovo cuz if they didnt they could get sued no matter what the us government or kosovo authorities say
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Good for you. I really hope you are happy with that. If you wish I can tell you as many times as you want “Kosovo is Serbia” and so we can finally have Kosovo and Serbia live in peace as Serbia has nothing to complain about!

Dragan

pre 10 godina

Yeah Danilo, so I guess your approach is the Titoist commie 'brotherhood and unity' BS, which is what got us into this mess in the first place. Kosovo albanians were given everything, full rights, autonomy, their own language, even university in their own language, accepting of all their illegal immigrants, good jobs, and a way higher standard of living than where they came from - albania. And how did they thank Serbia for their kindness? Rapes, police brutality against Serbs, poisinong cattle of Serbian farmers, poisoning water supplies, church burning, desecrating graves, terrorism & separtism, flooding the area with 10 to 15 kids per family and then declaring squatters rights....etc. Never mind the organ snatching and murders of Serbian civilians on regular basis.
So yeah, the only way to deal with these terrorist organ snatchers is with an iron fist, because they've shown what they're all about - not just in Serbia, but in FYROM, Greece, and Montenegro too. Your approach doesn't work, it's failed, mine will work, just wait and see.
Cheers!!

Danilo

pre 10 godina

You would do the exact same thing Serbia tried only with a heavier hand.

The definition of 'crazy' - doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Trudeau may have sent in the army once in the 60s, but Canada stripped itself of the power to declare war measure after that. Shortly after, bilingualism became official in Canada. Then, since then until now, Canada has only tried to include Quebec.

You've learned the wrong things from your country :)

a New Day

pre 10 godina

Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59
Your Declaration is legal but actually doing it is illegal argument has never been tested in a court and if it were actually true Serbia would have run straight back to the ICJ for a clarification ruling.
I suppose you believe that when in Qz and Dorothy was told to click her heels three times and say "Theres no place like home" That it made it true, but alas just like in the movie it is merely a dream that you like to keep alive.
Remember Serbs swore up until the ICJ opinion was released that the declaration was illegal. If Serbs are so sure about this why is it not tested in the same way? Simple, you never want to hear the truth.

Dragan

pre 10 godina

Danilo, in 1989 Serbia should have kicked out all illegal immigrants from Kosovo. There are hundreds of thousands of Albanians who illegally crossed into Serbia for a better life, and stupid Titoist commies did nothing about it. Money should have been pumped into the resource sector to attract high paying jobs there at the same time.
The first sign of terrorism, dead mailmen, dead policemen...killed by separatist terrorists should have been treated the same way Pierre Trudeau treated the FLQ crisis in Canada - call martial law, capture and liquidate all terrorists.
Third,since you can not trust the ignorant and corrupt media to provide the truth, Serbia should have hired high priced PR firms like the Croats and Bosnian Muslims did. It may not have helped much since Russia was on her knees, Germany wanted to exact revenge on Serbia, and the Vatican was heavily supporting catholic nazis. Serbia was very exposed in the 90's, and no matter what they did, they would have been painted black by the NATO war criminals and the fourth reich. However, fighting Goebbels style anti-Serb lies with truth would have only helped.
Fourth, Serbia should have never allowed cameras into Kosovo, if you remember the Racak hoax, you will know why. That lie was used as an excuse to bomb.
Do you ever ask yourself why Croatia got away unpunished with committing two genocides? Germany & Tito, their protectors that's how. Once Russia is on top, things will change, we need to wait it out.
Cheers!!

Danilo

pre 10 godina

You know, Dragane, It's not always about what's right and what's wrong. Sometimes it's about what works and what doesn't.

What would be your assessment of Serbia's strategy in Kosovo in 1989.

How successful was it in correcting all the (real and perceived) injustices against Serbs for all these centuries?

How would you compare it with how Canada dealt with an existential crisis?

Serbia is really good at radicalizing and making opponents out of potential partners.

I wonder if anyone's learned anything.

It doesn't seem that you have.

You can think about the questions and answer, or you can get all huffy and call me the same names that you have been for years. Whatever works :)

J

pre 10 godina

@Alex

It is not unilateral as there was not only one side involved in it but many. There were multiple sides involved. By calling it unilateral you as Serbs are trying to give yourselves so much more importance in the decision making on this process than you actually have, and diminish the impact half of the world has on this process.
While Serbia is an important part of this process it is not the kingmaker. Things can move along without her. The clue is simple. Kosova is independent of Serbia. It is not a UN member and lacks certain features of UN members but it is independent of Serbia. That was the main goal and that was achieved without the need to involve Serbia. This speaks in a way of Serbia's un-importance.

Regarding the legality of it. If you're a Serb or in that camp then I guess it makes sense. The problem with that is that half of the world doesn't see it that way. This means those Helsinki and UN documents you hold as absolute truths are not really absolute truths. In fact they are quite relative since you have half of the world supporting self-determination in cases were a country (Serbia) imposes terror on a part of its territory. Then you have the other half that thinks you can decimate your population and still hold onto your territory. At this point it no longer is about absolute laws but rather about values. Do your values tell you it's better to let people free of a country that terrorized them or not? People's well-being or a country's territory?

J.Oker

pre 10 godina

"He underscored that it was clear that the EU would not change its attitude and policy toward Serbia “for numerous reasons” and that it would continue to use the policy of force."

Yes, force! I guess you all read about the invasion of EU army into Serbia last week, didn't you? LOL

Peggy

pre 10 godina

Might have something to do Serbia being the only country asking for membership that imposed an apartheid regime of ethnically-based minority rule on said territory for 10 years, but I could be wrong.
(Danilo, 25 May 2013 16:58)
=================================

Yes, you're wrong.

Peggy

pre 10 godina

This loser is still barking.
(Avni, 25 May 2013 18:32)
=======================
It's good of you to tell us what you are still doing.

Unilateral, bilateral or multilateral who cares. Kosovo has declared independence with the blessing of most Europe and US but that doesn't mean that Serbia has to go along with it.
We have always known what getting into EU meant. The politicians have been lying to us from the very beginning but I am sure most of us here have known that to get EU membership Serbia has to let go of Kosovo.

What I don't get is why have Serbs allowed these traitor politicians to get away with their deception. Why have the Serbs not reacted sooner. Even bringing in EULEX was a sign that Serbia was letting go of Kosovo. I knew it then and I even said I didn't like it as did others.

Poor Serbs, so wanting to trust that their politicians have their best interests at heart. I really feel for them but now that the cat's out of the bag, now is the time to get rid of the rubbish and bring in people who will stop EU process and say a firm no to recognition of Kosovo.

Aleks

pre 10 godina

@ j

you are a little confused i think, it was a unilateral deceleration because there was no agreement in place, it doesnt make a difference how many countries helped you, the only country that really mattered was serbia and there was no agreement in place with them so it was a unilateral deceleration .. if there was not an issue with this then why is the west so desperate for serbia to concede this, thats cuz it aint over and kosovo aint independent, its in limbo status and they know it ... legally kosovo is still a part of serbia under international law .. the icj only said that the DECELERATION didnt violate international law, which is fine it didnt, however the ATTEMPTED SECESSION does violate international law under the un charter, resolution 1244 and the helsinki act as all three guarantee a nation's sovereignty and territorial integrity .. think of it this way, if you say or declare that you will do something criminal, they aint illegal, but if you actually do it then it becomes illegal .. like i said before kosovo is still legal seen as part of serbia which is why the other day us companies were negotiating with the serbian government about the trepeca mines in kosovo cuz if they didnt they could get sued no matter what the us government or kosovo authorities say

Dragan

pre 10 godina

Might have something to do Serbia being the only country asking for membership that imposed an apartheid regime of ethnically-based minority rule on said territory for 10 years, but I could be wrong.
(Danilo, 25 May 2013 16:58)

You are wrong, as always. The Kosovo albanians have had a genocidal policy against the indigenous Serb population for not just decades, but for centuries. You need to actually read a book to know this, not get your information from 30 second CNN sound bites from Serb haters like that ugly %$#& Christiane Amanpour, or the even uglier Maddy Albright. However, a simpleton like you I would never expect to possess the curiosity to actually research where you come from. After all, you hate who you think you are and your whole purpose is to exploit the locals - I bet you'll be in Bangladesh once the Serbian economy improves and you actually have to pay sustainable wages.
People like you, who worship the dollar above all else are the real problem. Heck if I was you Danilo, I'd hate myself too.
Cheers!!

KOSO

pre 10 godina

Yes, the EU is such a bad guy for giving you access to their funds and assisting you during these economic hardships. I'm sure no other member was requested ("imposed") to meddle on neighbors affairs; Serbia must be unique. Of course, I'm being silly because the majority of the free world recognize GOK, but you don't, therefore neither should EU because Brussels is trying to join Belgrade -- not the other way around.


Tung,

Brian

pre 10 godina

All Serbs of Serbia are uniting in favor of kosova independence. The eu has asked for Serbia to give up kosova and Serbia answered absolutely yes we will!!! We will send ambassadors and abolish all links to kosova and do border guards and customs agents!!. It's all illustrated by 3000 people doing an anti kosova independence rally while hundreds of thousands turn out for swimmers and tennis players.

Nenad

pre 10 godina

Ivan, it's hardly a question of whether Americans like Kostunica -- most Serb voters don't. DSS are a fringe party with no clout. Anyway, 22 EU countries recognized Kosovo several years ago, so Voja can't really sell the argument that Serbia was swindled in this process. We've all known for quite some time what EU membership would mean for Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo.

j

pre 10 godina

"He added that a turning point for redefinition of relations between Serbia and the EU was 2008 when the EU and Albanian separatists coordinated declaration and recognition of Kosovo’s independence which grossly violated UN Security Council Resolution 1244, UN Charter and Helsinki Final Act."

--Two things here:

1. Here I was convinced on a daily basis that this declaration was a unilateral act of Albanians. It turns out that Kostunica knew all along that in fact it was multilateral since it seems all these EU countries were involved in the coordination of such declaration. Can we agree now and stop calling unilateral? You can't complain that we took this action all on our own and took unilateral steps yet complain at the same time that the EU countries and US coordinated with us the declaration. It is simply nonsensical. It can be either unilateral and we did all on our own or it was multilateral and we had all this help. Decide for once. You Serbs are a confused people.

2. UN courts found that the declaration did not violate any international law. The only law it violates was that of Serbia but that was the whole point. As a lawyer I think this guy would have updated itself with major international court decisions but I guess when it goes against your propaganda talking point why bother.

Questioner

pre 10 godina

"He added that a turning point for redefinition of relations between Serbia and the EU was 2008 when the EU and Albanian separatists coordinated declaration and recognition of Kosovo’s independence which grossly violated UN Security Council Resolution 1244, UN Charter and Helsinki Final Act."

I always thought it was the US that coordinated it?

Danilo

pre 10 godina

"He said that Serbia had been asked what no country had been asked – to destroy its statehood and renounce a part of its territory."



Might have something to do Serbia being the only country asking for membership that imposed an apartheid regime of ethnically-based minority rule on said territory for 10 years, but I could be wrong.

Danilo

pre 10 godina

"He said that Serbia had been asked what no country had been asked – to destroy its statehood and renounce a part of its territory."



Might have something to do Serbia being the only country asking for membership that imposed an apartheid regime of ethnically-based minority rule on said territory for 10 years, but I could be wrong.

j

pre 10 godina

"He added that a turning point for redefinition of relations between Serbia and the EU was 2008 when the EU and Albanian separatists coordinated declaration and recognition of Kosovo’s independence which grossly violated UN Security Council Resolution 1244, UN Charter and Helsinki Final Act."

--Two things here:

1. Here I was convinced on a daily basis that this declaration was a unilateral act of Albanians. It turns out that Kostunica knew all along that in fact it was multilateral since it seems all these EU countries were involved in the coordination of such declaration. Can we agree now and stop calling unilateral? You can't complain that we took this action all on our own and took unilateral steps yet complain at the same time that the EU countries and US coordinated with us the declaration. It is simply nonsensical. It can be either unilateral and we did all on our own or it was multilateral and we had all this help. Decide for once. You Serbs are a confused people.

2. UN courts found that the declaration did not violate any international law. The only law it violates was that of Serbia but that was the whole point. As a lawyer I think this guy would have updated itself with major international court decisions but I guess when it goes against your propaganda talking point why bother.

Nenad

pre 10 godina

Ivan, it's hardly a question of whether Americans like Kostunica -- most Serb voters don't. DSS are a fringe party with no clout. Anyway, 22 EU countries recognized Kosovo several years ago, so Voja can't really sell the argument that Serbia was swindled in this process. We've all known for quite some time what EU membership would mean for Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo.

Questioner

pre 10 godina

"He added that a turning point for redefinition of relations between Serbia and the EU was 2008 when the EU and Albanian separatists coordinated declaration and recognition of Kosovo’s independence which grossly violated UN Security Council Resolution 1244, UN Charter and Helsinki Final Act."

I always thought it was the US that coordinated it?

Dragan

pre 10 godina

Might have something to do Serbia being the only country asking for membership that imposed an apartheid regime of ethnically-based minority rule on said territory for 10 years, but I could be wrong.
(Danilo, 25 May 2013 16:58)

You are wrong, as always. The Kosovo albanians have had a genocidal policy against the indigenous Serb population for not just decades, but for centuries. You need to actually read a book to know this, not get your information from 30 second CNN sound bites from Serb haters like that ugly %$#& Christiane Amanpour, or the even uglier Maddy Albright. However, a simpleton like you I would never expect to possess the curiosity to actually research where you come from. After all, you hate who you think you are and your whole purpose is to exploit the locals - I bet you'll be in Bangladesh once the Serbian economy improves and you actually have to pay sustainable wages.
People like you, who worship the dollar above all else are the real problem. Heck if I was you Danilo, I'd hate myself too.
Cheers!!

KOSO

pre 10 godina

Yes, the EU is such a bad guy for giving you access to their funds and assisting you during these economic hardships. I'm sure no other member was requested ("imposed") to meddle on neighbors affairs; Serbia must be unique. Of course, I'm being silly because the majority of the free world recognize GOK, but you don't, therefore neither should EU because Brussels is trying to join Belgrade -- not the other way around.


Tung,

Dragan

pre 10 godina

Danilo, in 1989 Serbia should have kicked out all illegal immigrants from Kosovo. There are hundreds of thousands of Albanians who illegally crossed into Serbia for a better life, and stupid Titoist commies did nothing about it. Money should have been pumped into the resource sector to attract high paying jobs there at the same time.
The first sign of terrorism, dead mailmen, dead policemen...killed by separatist terrorists should have been treated the same way Pierre Trudeau treated the FLQ crisis in Canada - call martial law, capture and liquidate all terrorists.
Third,since you can not trust the ignorant and corrupt media to provide the truth, Serbia should have hired high priced PR firms like the Croats and Bosnian Muslims did. It may not have helped much since Russia was on her knees, Germany wanted to exact revenge on Serbia, and the Vatican was heavily supporting catholic nazis. Serbia was very exposed in the 90's, and no matter what they did, they would have been painted black by the NATO war criminals and the fourth reich. However, fighting Goebbels style anti-Serb lies with truth would have only helped.
Fourth, Serbia should have never allowed cameras into Kosovo, if you remember the Racak hoax, you will know why. That lie was used as an excuse to bomb.
Do you ever ask yourself why Croatia got away unpunished with committing two genocides? Germany & Tito, their protectors that's how. Once Russia is on top, things will change, we need to wait it out.
Cheers!!

Brian

pre 10 godina

All Serbs of Serbia are uniting in favor of kosova independence. The eu has asked for Serbia to give up kosova and Serbia answered absolutely yes we will!!! We will send ambassadors and abolish all links to kosova and do border guards and customs agents!!. It's all illustrated by 3000 people doing an anti kosova independence rally while hundreds of thousands turn out for swimmers and tennis players.

Peggy

pre 10 godina

This loser is still barking.
(Avni, 25 May 2013 18:32)
=======================
It's good of you to tell us what you are still doing.

Unilateral, bilateral or multilateral who cares. Kosovo has declared independence with the blessing of most Europe and US but that doesn't mean that Serbia has to go along with it.
We have always known what getting into EU meant. The politicians have been lying to us from the very beginning but I am sure most of us here have known that to get EU membership Serbia has to let go of Kosovo.

What I don't get is why have Serbs allowed these traitor politicians to get away with their deception. Why have the Serbs not reacted sooner. Even bringing in EULEX was a sign that Serbia was letting go of Kosovo. I knew it then and I even said I didn't like it as did others.

Poor Serbs, so wanting to trust that their politicians have their best interests at heart. I really feel for them but now that the cat's out of the bag, now is the time to get rid of the rubbish and bring in people who will stop EU process and say a firm no to recognition of Kosovo.

Peggy

pre 10 godina

Might have something to do Serbia being the only country asking for membership that imposed an apartheid regime of ethnically-based minority rule on said territory for 10 years, but I could be wrong.
(Danilo, 25 May 2013 16:58)
=================================

Yes, you're wrong.

J

pre 10 godina

@Alex

It is not unilateral as there was not only one side involved in it but many. There were multiple sides involved. By calling it unilateral you as Serbs are trying to give yourselves so much more importance in the decision making on this process than you actually have, and diminish the impact half of the world has on this process.
While Serbia is an important part of this process it is not the kingmaker. Things can move along without her. The clue is simple. Kosova is independent of Serbia. It is not a UN member and lacks certain features of UN members but it is independent of Serbia. That was the main goal and that was achieved without the need to involve Serbia. This speaks in a way of Serbia's un-importance.

Regarding the legality of it. If you're a Serb or in that camp then I guess it makes sense. The problem with that is that half of the world doesn't see it that way. This means those Helsinki and UN documents you hold as absolute truths are not really absolute truths. In fact they are quite relative since you have half of the world supporting self-determination in cases were a country (Serbia) imposes terror on a part of its territory. Then you have the other half that thinks you can decimate your population and still hold onto your territory. At this point it no longer is about absolute laws but rather about values. Do your values tell you it's better to let people free of a country that terrorized them or not? People's well-being or a country's territory?

Danilo

pre 10 godina

You know, Dragane, It's not always about what's right and what's wrong. Sometimes it's about what works and what doesn't.

What would be your assessment of Serbia's strategy in Kosovo in 1989.

How successful was it in correcting all the (real and perceived) injustices against Serbs for all these centuries?

How would you compare it with how Canada dealt with an existential crisis?

Serbia is really good at radicalizing and making opponents out of potential partners.

I wonder if anyone's learned anything.

It doesn't seem that you have.

You can think about the questions and answer, or you can get all huffy and call me the same names that you have been for years. Whatever works :)

Dragan

pre 10 godina

Yeah Danilo, so I guess your approach is the Titoist commie 'brotherhood and unity' BS, which is what got us into this mess in the first place. Kosovo albanians were given everything, full rights, autonomy, their own language, even university in their own language, accepting of all their illegal immigrants, good jobs, and a way higher standard of living than where they came from - albania. And how did they thank Serbia for their kindness? Rapes, police brutality against Serbs, poisinong cattle of Serbian farmers, poisoning water supplies, church burning, desecrating graves, terrorism & separtism, flooding the area with 10 to 15 kids per family and then declaring squatters rights....etc. Never mind the organ snatching and murders of Serbian civilians on regular basis.
So yeah, the only way to deal with these terrorist organ snatchers is with an iron fist, because they've shown what they're all about - not just in Serbia, but in FYROM, Greece, and Montenegro too. Your approach doesn't work, it's failed, mine will work, just wait and see.
Cheers!!

Aleks

pre 10 godina

@ j

you are a little confused i think, it was a unilateral deceleration because there was no agreement in place, it doesnt make a difference how many countries helped you, the only country that really mattered was serbia and there was no agreement in place with them so it was a unilateral deceleration .. if there was not an issue with this then why is the west so desperate for serbia to concede this, thats cuz it aint over and kosovo aint independent, its in limbo status and they know it ... legally kosovo is still a part of serbia under international law .. the icj only said that the DECELERATION didnt violate international law, which is fine it didnt, however the ATTEMPTED SECESSION does violate international law under the un charter, resolution 1244 and the helsinki act as all three guarantee a nation's sovereignty and territorial integrity .. think of it this way, if you say or declare that you will do something criminal, they aint illegal, but if you actually do it then it becomes illegal .. like i said before kosovo is still legal seen as part of serbia which is why the other day us companies were negotiating with the serbian government about the trepeca mines in kosovo cuz if they didnt they could get sued no matter what the us government or kosovo authorities say

J.Oker

pre 10 godina

"He underscored that it was clear that the EU would not change its attitude and policy toward Serbia “for numerous reasons” and that it would continue to use the policy of force."

Yes, force! I guess you all read about the invasion of EU army into Serbia last week, didn't you? LOL

a New Day

pre 10 godina

Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59
Your Declaration is legal but actually doing it is illegal argument has never been tested in a court and if it were actually true Serbia would have run straight back to the ICJ for a clarification ruling.
I suppose you believe that when in Qz and Dorothy was told to click her heels three times and say "Theres no place like home" That it made it true, but alas just like in the movie it is merely a dream that you like to keep alive.
Remember Serbs swore up until the ICJ opinion was released that the declaration was illegal. If Serbs are so sure about this why is it not tested in the same way? Simple, you never want to hear the truth.

Danilo

pre 10 godina

You would do the exact same thing Serbia tried only with a heavier hand.

The definition of 'crazy' - doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Trudeau may have sent in the army once in the 60s, but Canada stripped itself of the power to declare war measure after that. Shortly after, bilingualism became official in Canada. Then, since then until now, Canada has only tried to include Quebec.

You've learned the wrong things from your country :)

icj1

pre 10 godina

legally kosovo is still a part of serbia under international law .. the icj only said that the DECELERATION didnt violate international law, which is fine it didn’t
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Ok, good, at least we agree that what Serbs shouted for two years that the declaration was illegal and bla, bla, bla… was all lies. As for the rest, you are more than welcome to continue searching for the international law that makes Kosovo part of Serbia. Let us know when you finish that research and publish the results for academic discussions… I’m sure it will be a hot debate :)
----------

however the ATTEMPTED SECESSION does violate international law under the un charter, resolution 1244 and the helsinki act as all three guarantee a nation's sovereignty and territorial integrity ..
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

The Declaration of Independence did not violate any of the things you mentioned above; therefore any act which is in accordance with that Declaration of Independence does not violate any of the above; simple logic.

icj1

pre 10 godina

you are a little confused i think, it was a unilateral deceleration because there was no agreement in place, it doesnt make a difference how many countries helped you, the only country that really mattered was serbia and there was no agreement in place with them so it was a unilateral deceleration
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Of course, the only country that matters for Serbia is Serbia. But unfortunately Serbia does not control what the other countries consider as what matters or not, despite the fact that Serbs might think they that they are the masters of the universe :)
----------

.. if there was not an issue with this then why is the west so desperate for serbia to concede this,
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Just a small correction; it’s Serbia that is so desperate to get the West to get desperate to do that!
----------

thats cuz it aint over and kosovo aint independent, its in limbo status and they know it ...
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

If Serbia is not controlling what happens in Kosovo means that “kosovo aint independent”, then Kosovo is just fine with “kosovo aint independent”.

icj1

pre 10 godina

think of it this way, if you say or declare that you will do something criminal, they aint illegal, but if you actually do it then it becomes illegal ..
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Really?! So if I threaten somebody that I’ll kill him I don’t commit a crime ?! What country do you live in dear where threating the life of somebody is not a crime? Sure, it is a lesser crime than actually doing it, but it is still a crime. Also don’t forget that Serbia considered the authors of the declaration of independence to have committed a crime, even though it was just a declaration. It is Serbia itself that has rejected all of this convoluted logic that you are coming up, dear :)
----------

like i said before kosovo is still legal seen as part of serbia which is why the other day us companies were negotiating with the serbian government about the trepeca mines in kosovo cuz if they didnt they could get sued no matter what the us government or kosovo authorities say
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Good for you. I really hope you are happy with that. If you wish I can tell you as many times as you want “Kosovo is Serbia” and so we can finally have Kosovo and Serbia live in peace as Serbia has nothing to complain about!

Danilo

pre 10 godina

"He said that Serbia had been asked what no country had been asked – to destroy its statehood and renounce a part of its territory."



Might have something to do Serbia being the only country asking for membership that imposed an apartheid regime of ethnically-based minority rule on said territory for 10 years, but I could be wrong.

Peggy

pre 10 godina

Might have something to do Serbia being the only country asking for membership that imposed an apartheid regime of ethnically-based minority rule on said territory for 10 years, but I could be wrong.
(Danilo, 25 May 2013 16:58)
=================================

Yes, you're wrong.

j

pre 10 godina

"He added that a turning point for redefinition of relations between Serbia and the EU was 2008 when the EU and Albanian separatists coordinated declaration and recognition of Kosovo’s independence which grossly violated UN Security Council Resolution 1244, UN Charter and Helsinki Final Act."

--Two things here:

1. Here I was convinced on a daily basis that this declaration was a unilateral act of Albanians. It turns out that Kostunica knew all along that in fact it was multilateral since it seems all these EU countries were involved in the coordination of such declaration. Can we agree now and stop calling unilateral? You can't complain that we took this action all on our own and took unilateral steps yet complain at the same time that the EU countries and US coordinated with us the declaration. It is simply nonsensical. It can be either unilateral and we did all on our own or it was multilateral and we had all this help. Decide for once. You Serbs are a confused people.

2. UN courts found that the declaration did not violate any international law. The only law it violates was that of Serbia but that was the whole point. As a lawyer I think this guy would have updated itself with major international court decisions but I guess when it goes against your propaganda talking point why bother.

Dragan

pre 10 godina

Might have something to do Serbia being the only country asking for membership that imposed an apartheid regime of ethnically-based minority rule on said territory for 10 years, but I could be wrong.
(Danilo, 25 May 2013 16:58)

You are wrong, as always. The Kosovo albanians have had a genocidal policy against the indigenous Serb population for not just decades, but for centuries. You need to actually read a book to know this, not get your information from 30 second CNN sound bites from Serb haters like that ugly %$#& Christiane Amanpour, or the even uglier Maddy Albright. However, a simpleton like you I would never expect to possess the curiosity to actually research where you come from. After all, you hate who you think you are and your whole purpose is to exploit the locals - I bet you'll be in Bangladesh once the Serbian economy improves and you actually have to pay sustainable wages.
People like you, who worship the dollar above all else are the real problem. Heck if I was you Danilo, I'd hate myself too.
Cheers!!

Nenad

pre 10 godina

Ivan, it's hardly a question of whether Americans like Kostunica -- most Serb voters don't. DSS are a fringe party with no clout. Anyway, 22 EU countries recognized Kosovo several years ago, so Voja can't really sell the argument that Serbia was swindled in this process. We've all known for quite some time what EU membership would mean for Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo.

KOSO

pre 10 godina

Yes, the EU is such a bad guy for giving you access to their funds and assisting you during these economic hardships. I'm sure no other member was requested ("imposed") to meddle on neighbors affairs; Serbia must be unique. Of course, I'm being silly because the majority of the free world recognize GOK, but you don't, therefore neither should EU because Brussels is trying to join Belgrade -- not the other way around.


Tung,

Brian

pre 10 godina

All Serbs of Serbia are uniting in favor of kosova independence. The eu has asked for Serbia to give up kosova and Serbia answered absolutely yes we will!!! We will send ambassadors and abolish all links to kosova and do border guards and customs agents!!. It's all illustrated by 3000 people doing an anti kosova independence rally while hundreds of thousands turn out for swimmers and tennis players.

Peggy

pre 10 godina

This loser is still barking.
(Avni, 25 May 2013 18:32)
=======================
It's good of you to tell us what you are still doing.

Unilateral, bilateral or multilateral who cares. Kosovo has declared independence with the blessing of most Europe and US but that doesn't mean that Serbia has to go along with it.
We have always known what getting into EU meant. The politicians have been lying to us from the very beginning but I am sure most of us here have known that to get EU membership Serbia has to let go of Kosovo.

What I don't get is why have Serbs allowed these traitor politicians to get away with their deception. Why have the Serbs not reacted sooner. Even bringing in EULEX was a sign that Serbia was letting go of Kosovo. I knew it then and I even said I didn't like it as did others.

Poor Serbs, so wanting to trust that their politicians have their best interests at heart. I really feel for them but now that the cat's out of the bag, now is the time to get rid of the rubbish and bring in people who will stop EU process and say a firm no to recognition of Kosovo.

Dragan

pre 10 godina

Danilo, in 1989 Serbia should have kicked out all illegal immigrants from Kosovo. There are hundreds of thousands of Albanians who illegally crossed into Serbia for a better life, and stupid Titoist commies did nothing about it. Money should have been pumped into the resource sector to attract high paying jobs there at the same time.
The first sign of terrorism, dead mailmen, dead policemen...killed by separatist terrorists should have been treated the same way Pierre Trudeau treated the FLQ crisis in Canada - call martial law, capture and liquidate all terrorists.
Third,since you can not trust the ignorant and corrupt media to provide the truth, Serbia should have hired high priced PR firms like the Croats and Bosnian Muslims did. It may not have helped much since Russia was on her knees, Germany wanted to exact revenge on Serbia, and the Vatican was heavily supporting catholic nazis. Serbia was very exposed in the 90's, and no matter what they did, they would have been painted black by the NATO war criminals and the fourth reich. However, fighting Goebbels style anti-Serb lies with truth would have only helped.
Fourth, Serbia should have never allowed cameras into Kosovo, if you remember the Racak hoax, you will know why. That lie was used as an excuse to bomb.
Do you ever ask yourself why Croatia got away unpunished with committing two genocides? Germany & Tito, their protectors that's how. Once Russia is on top, things will change, we need to wait it out.
Cheers!!

Aleks

pre 10 godina

@ j

you are a little confused i think, it was a unilateral deceleration because there was no agreement in place, it doesnt make a difference how many countries helped you, the only country that really mattered was serbia and there was no agreement in place with them so it was a unilateral deceleration .. if there was not an issue with this then why is the west so desperate for serbia to concede this, thats cuz it aint over and kosovo aint independent, its in limbo status and they know it ... legally kosovo is still a part of serbia under international law .. the icj only said that the DECELERATION didnt violate international law, which is fine it didnt, however the ATTEMPTED SECESSION does violate international law under the un charter, resolution 1244 and the helsinki act as all three guarantee a nation's sovereignty and territorial integrity .. think of it this way, if you say or declare that you will do something criminal, they aint illegal, but if you actually do it then it becomes illegal .. like i said before kosovo is still legal seen as part of serbia which is why the other day us companies were negotiating with the serbian government about the trepeca mines in kosovo cuz if they didnt they could get sued no matter what the us government or kosovo authorities say

Danilo

pre 10 godina

You know, Dragane, It's not always about what's right and what's wrong. Sometimes it's about what works and what doesn't.

What would be your assessment of Serbia's strategy in Kosovo in 1989.

How successful was it in correcting all the (real and perceived) injustices against Serbs for all these centuries?

How would you compare it with how Canada dealt with an existential crisis?

Serbia is really good at radicalizing and making opponents out of potential partners.

I wonder if anyone's learned anything.

It doesn't seem that you have.

You can think about the questions and answer, or you can get all huffy and call me the same names that you have been for years. Whatever works :)

Danilo

pre 10 godina

You would do the exact same thing Serbia tried only with a heavier hand.

The definition of 'crazy' - doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Trudeau may have sent in the army once in the 60s, but Canada stripped itself of the power to declare war measure after that. Shortly after, bilingualism became official in Canada. Then, since then until now, Canada has only tried to include Quebec.

You've learned the wrong things from your country :)

J

pre 10 godina

@Alex

It is not unilateral as there was not only one side involved in it but many. There were multiple sides involved. By calling it unilateral you as Serbs are trying to give yourselves so much more importance in the decision making on this process than you actually have, and diminish the impact half of the world has on this process.
While Serbia is an important part of this process it is not the kingmaker. Things can move along without her. The clue is simple. Kosova is independent of Serbia. It is not a UN member and lacks certain features of UN members but it is independent of Serbia. That was the main goal and that was achieved without the need to involve Serbia. This speaks in a way of Serbia's un-importance.

Regarding the legality of it. If you're a Serb or in that camp then I guess it makes sense. The problem with that is that half of the world doesn't see it that way. This means those Helsinki and UN documents you hold as absolute truths are not really absolute truths. In fact they are quite relative since you have half of the world supporting self-determination in cases were a country (Serbia) imposes terror on a part of its territory. Then you have the other half that thinks you can decimate your population and still hold onto your territory. At this point it no longer is about absolute laws but rather about values. Do your values tell you it's better to let people free of a country that terrorized them or not? People's well-being or a country's territory?

icj1

pre 10 godina

think of it this way, if you say or declare that you will do something criminal, they aint illegal, but if you actually do it then it becomes illegal ..
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Really?! So if I threaten somebody that I’ll kill him I don’t commit a crime ?! What country do you live in dear where threating the life of somebody is not a crime? Sure, it is a lesser crime than actually doing it, but it is still a crime. Also don’t forget that Serbia considered the authors of the declaration of independence to have committed a crime, even though it was just a declaration. It is Serbia itself that has rejected all of this convoluted logic that you are coming up, dear :)
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like i said before kosovo is still legal seen as part of serbia which is why the other day us companies were negotiating with the serbian government about the trepeca mines in kosovo cuz if they didnt they could get sued no matter what the us government or kosovo authorities say
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Good for you. I really hope you are happy with that. If you wish I can tell you as many times as you want “Kosovo is Serbia” and so we can finally have Kosovo and Serbia live in peace as Serbia has nothing to complain about!

Questioner

pre 10 godina

"He added that a turning point for redefinition of relations between Serbia and the EU was 2008 when the EU and Albanian separatists coordinated declaration and recognition of Kosovo’s independence which grossly violated UN Security Council Resolution 1244, UN Charter and Helsinki Final Act."

I always thought it was the US that coordinated it?

J.Oker

pre 10 godina

"He underscored that it was clear that the EU would not change its attitude and policy toward Serbia “for numerous reasons” and that it would continue to use the policy of force."

Yes, force! I guess you all read about the invasion of EU army into Serbia last week, didn't you? LOL

a New Day

pre 10 godina

Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59
Your Declaration is legal but actually doing it is illegal argument has never been tested in a court and if it were actually true Serbia would have run straight back to the ICJ for a clarification ruling.
I suppose you believe that when in Qz and Dorothy was told to click her heels three times and say "Theres no place like home" That it made it true, but alas just like in the movie it is merely a dream that you like to keep alive.
Remember Serbs swore up until the ICJ opinion was released that the declaration was illegal. If Serbs are so sure about this why is it not tested in the same way? Simple, you never want to hear the truth.

icj1

pre 10 godina

you are a little confused i think, it was a unilateral deceleration because there was no agreement in place, it doesnt make a difference how many countries helped you, the only country that really mattered was serbia and there was no agreement in place with them so it was a unilateral deceleration
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Of course, the only country that matters for Serbia is Serbia. But unfortunately Serbia does not control what the other countries consider as what matters or not, despite the fact that Serbs might think they that they are the masters of the universe :)
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.. if there was not an issue with this then why is the west so desperate for serbia to concede this,
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Just a small correction; it’s Serbia that is so desperate to get the West to get desperate to do that!
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thats cuz it aint over and kosovo aint independent, its in limbo status and they know it ...
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

If Serbia is not controlling what happens in Kosovo means that “kosovo aint independent”, then Kosovo is just fine with “kosovo aint independent”.

icj1

pre 10 godina

legally kosovo is still a part of serbia under international law .. the icj only said that the DECELERATION didnt violate international law, which is fine it didn’t
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

Ok, good, at least we agree that what Serbs shouted for two years that the declaration was illegal and bla, bla, bla… was all lies. As for the rest, you are more than welcome to continue searching for the international law that makes Kosovo part of Serbia. Let us know when you finish that research and publish the results for academic discussions… I’m sure it will be a hot debate :)
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however the ATTEMPTED SECESSION does violate international law under the un charter, resolution 1244 and the helsinki act as all three guarantee a nation's sovereignty and territorial integrity ..
(Aleks, 26 May 2013 03:59)

The Declaration of Independence did not violate any of the things you mentioned above; therefore any act which is in accordance with that Declaration of Independence does not violate any of the above; simple logic.

Dragan

pre 10 godina

Yeah Danilo, so I guess your approach is the Titoist commie 'brotherhood and unity' BS, which is what got us into this mess in the first place. Kosovo albanians were given everything, full rights, autonomy, their own language, even university in their own language, accepting of all their illegal immigrants, good jobs, and a way higher standard of living than where they came from - albania. And how did they thank Serbia for their kindness? Rapes, police brutality against Serbs, poisinong cattle of Serbian farmers, poisoning water supplies, church burning, desecrating graves, terrorism & separtism, flooding the area with 10 to 15 kids per family and then declaring squatters rights....etc. Never mind the organ snatching and murders of Serbian civilians on regular basis.
So yeah, the only way to deal with these terrorist organ snatchers is with an iron fist, because they've shown what they're all about - not just in Serbia, but in FYROM, Greece, and Montenegro too. Your approach doesn't work, it's failed, mine will work, just wait and see.
Cheers!!