“President does not understand what reconciliation means”

Ah yes! The queen bee of Serbophobia, Natasa Kandic! The lady who's picture is hanging above Danilo's bed, she is his inspiration. From an outsider, you probably would have a hard time to process the fact that the most thriving industry in Serbia is Serbo-phobic NGO's. But yes, sadly there are a lot of people in Belgrade running around acting like Danilo. However all is not loss, although most media did not report it, there was a student protest against capitulation on Knez Mihajlova just yesterday.

Anyway, as far as Kandic goes, reconciliation is for Serbs to declare their nation was the supreme instigator in the wars of the 1990s, and anything other nations want from Serbs they must have for the sake of "reconciliation".

But other than a couple of these looney tunes, Nastasa Kandic does not have much respect among the general population in Serbia.

“Equalizing responsibility in a war is not reconciliation,” she stressed.

This is the core sentence of all discussion regarding reconciliation. Serbs were desperately trying to downplay their own crimes and guilt just in order to achieve this. They know that their denial of crimes in the 1990s failed epicly, so the new strategy is to equalize all crimes so in effect nobody is guilty. A very simply but also shameless attempt. But as the denial failed, that attempt is failing too. The Hague Tribunal makes very clear messages based on facts and since Serbs cannot counter those facts other than whining about an alleged Anti-Serbian world conspiracy. It is good to see that even within Serbia those lies fall short.

All sides committed crimes, but in magnitude and the primary source, guilt and responsibility lies in the Serbian people and their leaders.

@Ari Gold

you live in a different universe which has not much to do with reality. One can't take you seriously.

I think it is funny that he dares talk about "reconciliation" following the Yugolav Wars, when he denies war crimes and lays claim to the Croatian city of Vukovar.

I thought there were no smart people in Belgrade. I was wrong until I read what she said. Thank you! She is right about everything she said.

The guilt is 100%on the muslims and croats, serbs wanted to keep Yugoslavia as it was, the others wanted to destroy the country they already lived in. They turned their back on their own country and their own army. Just like Tito said, traitors should rot in hell.
(Daniel, 11 April 2013 14:59)

They didn't want to destroy their own country, they wanted to liberate and free their own country. After all Yugoslavia was "Greater Serbia" under the flag of "equality" for all. However in reality this wasn't the case as some were more "equal" than others with the Serbs controlling 4 of the 8 votes (Serbia, Vojvodina, Kosova and Montenegero), whereas the Croats only had one vote (Croatia), the Slovenes only had one vote (Slovenia), the Macedonians only had one vote (Macedonia) and the Bosniaks didn't have a vote, note even Bosnia's as it was always split. Serbs had all the high ranking jobs in Kosova, Vojvodina and Bosnian, never Albanians, Hungarians or Bosniaks. Later Vojvodina's and Kosova's autonomy was stripped, then after this the Serbs demanded autonomy in Croatia. When Slovenia and Croatia decided to leave this artifical Serb dominated state, Beograd sent in the army to preserve "Greater Serbia".

If Croats and Muslims are guilty of anything, they're guilty of not wanting to live in Greater Serbia!

Natasha Kandic comes from Kragujevac. Her father was a major in the Inspector Generals office of JNA and she grew up in an apartment opposite the current Serbian Parliament.
Her uncle, her dad’s brother, was prone to fits of strange behaviour. He made a coffin and would on occasions lie in it and light a candle and begin to cry and when questioned why he did this, he said he wanted to see what it would be like when he dies. This happened in the late 1940s.
So strange behaviour does run through her immediate family. How do I know, well a distant relative is married into the Kandic family.

would you/could you articulate what's "serbophobic" about anything in this article?
(Danilo, 11 April 2013 15:55)

If Ari disagrees with something, he automatically labels it "serbophobic".

To Ari Gold,

Aren't you even a bit ashame for inventing (lying would be the correct word but I'm trying to behave) "facts" as "Kandic is not concerned with the fate of Serbian victims from the 90s because she feels Serbs should be placed under collective guilt for the wars"?

If you allow yourself, read what I wrote to Dardania flag about Kandic.

I know Australia is far away you may be shortsighted, but then, get yourself glasses! Or a girlfriend so you have something more constructive to do than pis.ing in the wind.

"Equating responsibility in war is not reconciliation," said Kandic ... how come? So if I accept that the opponent and I we're both responsible for what happened and If we offere hands, that means that we are reconciled, realizing and admitting our mistakes, right? Of course, in accordance with the acceptance of responsibility is the division of punishment, right?...But only Serbs lend their hand to reconciliation so they are guilty... as the Croats did not admit anything....Today they are also encouraging fascism and no one warns them from the EU about that fact...not even our(Serbian) human rights activists :-) I guess that is ok, after all they don realy fight for the Serbian cause ... But ... we are already used to this ... we just hope for better days ...

I have no idea what she just said. I feel like I'm grading one of my student's papers.

Ari,

would you/could you articulate what's "serbophobic" about anything in this article?

I think it is funny that he dares talk about "reconciliation" following the Yugolav Wars, when he denies war crimes and lays claim to the Croatian city of Vukovar.
(Ian, UK, 11 April 2013 12:10)

Nikolic doesn’t care a hoot about reconciliation. He is using the same tactics the west uses. Can’t you recognise when someone is pulling your leg? You poor thing.

Luckily no one in Serbia cares what this brainwashed nobody has to say.

All sides committed crimes, but in magnitude and the primary source, guilt and responsibility lies in the Serbian people and their leaders.
(John, 11 April 2013 12:33)

The guilt is 100%on the muslims and croats, serbs wanted to keep Yugoslavia as it was, the others wanted to destroy the country they already lived in. They turned their back on their own country and their own army. Just like Tito said, traitors should rot in hell.

would you/could you articulate what's "serbophobic" about anything in this article?
(Danilo, 11 April 2013 15:55)

It is not the article that is Serbo-phobic, it is Natasa Kandic (your hero) who is Serbo-phobic. Kandic had a problem with the President's speech at the UN. This speech was a fairly moderate speech. It was not the least bit inflammatory nor did it spread hate. It did not condone or deny any crimes committed by Serbian combatants in the 1990's. He simply brought up the fact that those who purported crimes against Serbian civilian populations have not been brought to justice. This was a problem for Kandic.

She is of the view that Serbian victims do not actually count because Serbs were the ones to instigate the wars and therefore cannot expect Croatian, Albanian and Bosnian Muslim war criminals to be ever brought to justice as a part of any "reconciliation".

This is something Natasa Kandic is notorious in Serbia for. The fact that you are even defending her, well.. it tells me just about everything I need to know about you. You are a part of those small but loud groups in Belgrade who are anti-Serbian to their very teeth. Despise being Serbian and everything about the country you live in. I don't blame you though. I blame communist ideology, it psychologically set a lot of our people back. You ought to learn more about your nations history and put down your KPJ membership booklet.

Ok, Ari. Could you, then, explain exactly what's "Serbophobic' about her?

You say she's my hero, but I don't actually know a lot about her. She seems to talk a lot about reconciliation and naming victims. You have some sort of problem with that for some reason?

Ok, Ari. Could you, then, explain exactly what's "Serbophobic' about her?

You say she's my hero, but I don't actually know a lot about her. She seems to talk a lot about reconciliation and naming victims. You have some sort of problem with that for some reason?
(Danilo, 11 April 2013 18:25)

I've already stated. Kandic is not concerned with the fate of Serbian victims from the 90s because she feels Serbs should be placed under collective guilt for the wars. I am all for reconciliation but the Hague Tribunal has only served to make reconciliation much more difficult than it should have been. Kandic on the other hand supports the work of the Hague and thinks they have done an excellent job at handing out justice.

Furthermore, Kandic favors legitimizing the occupation of Kosovo i Metohija as an independent but doesn't hold that same reservation for Republika Srpska. This is at its core a very anti-Serbian policy.

But I don't feel too bad for her. She is banking in on a thriving industry in Belgrade- hating Serbs.

"the Croats were acquitted"

Momčilo Perišić, the Yugoslav general she was comparing them to was also acquitted.

Haitian, isn't it easy to have opinions without knowing a thing?
(Olli, 11 April 2013 19:23)

It is even easier to talk about one person and pretend that he represents the situation of all Albanians at that time. Leaving out what happened to those who were working in the schools, University, media, police, and other places.

Kandic, go back to Albania!

"I've already stated. Kandic is not concerned with the fate of Serbian victims from the 90s because she feels Serbs should be placed under collective guilt for the wars. "

Really? Could you provide an example of this, please? Everything I've read from her seems to indicate that she's for an accounting of victims regardless of ethnicity. Maybe you're seeing a boogeyman where there is none. I'm quite curious to see your examples.


"Kandic on the other hand supports the work of the Hague and thinks they have done an excellent job at handing out justice. "

Not according to what she said about the Gotovina appeal.

I agree with you Daniel, I also am not quite sure what she is saying. Maybe it's in the translation by B92 from Serbian, but what is she actually trying to say - especially the part about the Croat and Serbs generals? No, they did not get equal treatment, the Croats were acquitted.

I have no idea what she just said. I feel like I'm grading one of my student's papers.
(Daniel, 11 April 2013 13:31)

You have some really smart student's in your class.

Dear Dardania flag,

You wrote:
"She is right about everything she said."

What did Kandic say of the ICTY verdict that found two Ante Gotovina and Mladen Markac not guilty of war crimes against Serbs in Croatia? Well, she said the verdict did not bring justice to the victims of Operation Storm. She said that the first verdict "fitted the facts, that there was a state plan for expelling the Serbs". And she went on saying that now it will be harder to prosecute those who are responsible for war crimes before the Croatian courts.

Dardania flag, you are among first Albanians to admit that the not guilty verdict of Gotovina and Markac wasn't right. I see some progress here.

And Haitian,

I don't the origin of your alias but it sure reflects the very low educational level you've enjoyed. You write:

"Serbs had all the high ranking jobs in Kosova, [...] never Albanians."

I think you could start educating yourself, first reading for example Fadil Hoxha's biography "Fadil Hoxha në vetën e parë" (F.H. in the first person) based on interviews by Veton and Rexhai Surroi.

Hoxha held many high posts in Yugoslavia (and Kosovo). He was the President of the Assembly of the Kosovo Autonomous Province, a member of Yugoslav Communist Party Presidium, a member of the Federal Presidency, and the Vice President of the Federal Presidency (the highest leadership next to Tito in Yugoslavia).

Haitian, isn't it easy to have opinions without knowing a thing?

(Olli, 11 April 2013 22:08)

Funny Olli, you replied to another post talking about Albanians in general by bringing up a single case as a counterexample. If that is not generalization, I don't know what is. Thank you also for bringing into the plate what a Croatian friend of yours said about what he has heard from many other Croatians. That was a "very solid" point. That other thing about the ignorance of Albanians under the age of 35 was the cherry on top though. Your awareness of it is a "rock solid argument" in this discussion.

Hey Ari

How come you're declining the invitation to give examples of Kandic's "Serbophobia" and advocating for Serbian collective guilt?

perhaps you posted as "propaganda" and, however ironically, used the propaganda technique of merely repeating an allegation.

or maybe it was someone else being unintentionally clueless.

I'm genuinely curious as I don't actually know much about this women except what I've read on a few articles on this site. Since you accuse me of idolizing her and since your posts don't pass the sniff test, you've made me curious. Tell me about this villain, please.

Reader,

Can't you do better than that? Tell me where did I suggest that Hoxha represented "the situation of all Albanians at that time". I'm well passed my primary school, save your foolish contra argument to kids. NO-ONE EVER represents all of anything. Because this "all" doesn't exist. I can still send you to Albanians who had it perfectly even during Milosevic time.

I have no sympathies toward Milosevic. For me Serbia is 100% better off without Kosovo than having it as a ball and chain in leg. Well, in fact not in leg but around neck. I'm just aware of the ignorance that Kosovo Albanians (especially those under 35 years of age) have about Kosovo's history in Yugoslavia. I'm not saying it wasn't troublesome but there were times when situation was getting better (owing much to efforts and clever politics of Hoxha). And ignoring the role that extremist Albanians had in shooting down the progress does not serve the course of Kosovo Albanians in the long run. Like my Croatian friend from Dalmatia told me: "Funny those Kosovars, they think we're their friends. Like they can't remember that we absolutely hated to send them our moneys, and we wished them out always. The Catholic ones of us thanked God they weren't closer to us." I remember he told there were many Croatians who couldn't understand the popularity of Faruk Begolli and Bekim Fehmiu among Serbs.

So, this is all for this time about suggesting the situation of all Albanians at some given time in history...

This is the face of Serbophobia. She is the biggest traitor next to Sonja Biserko. All that money she recieves from the West must make her feel pretty good about herself.

And Haitian,

I don't the origin of your alias but it sure reflects the very low educational level you've enjoyed. You write:

"Serbs had all the high ranking jobs in Kosova, [...] never Albanians."

I think you could start educating yourself, first reading for example Fadil Hoxha's biography "Fadil Hoxha në vetën e parë" (F.H. in the first person) based on interviews by Veton and Rexhai Surroi.

Hoxha held many high posts in Yugoslavia (and Kosovo). He was the President of the Assembly of the Kosovo Autonomous Province, a member of Yugoslav Communist Party Presidium, a member of the Federal Presidency, and the Vice President of the Federal Presidency (the highest leadership next to Tito in Yugoslavia).

Haitian, isn't it easy to have opinions without knowing a thing?
(Olli, 11 April 2013 19:23)

I was referring to the Post-Tito period as my commnet was regarding the break up of Yugoslavia. In the Post-Tito period, (the period when Serbs generally dominated Yugoslavia), Serbs had all/ vast majority of the high ranking positions in Kosova, such as in Government, the Police, Military, Prishtina University, business jobs ect however I had to cut that bit out of my previous comment to fit the 1500 character limit therefore I apologize for unintentionally misleading you.

Olli, isn't it easy jumping to conclusions?

The guilt is 100%on the muslims and croats, serbs wanted to keep Yugoslavia as it was, the others wanted to destroy the country they already lived in. They turned their back on their own country and their own army. Just like Tito said, traitors should rot in hell.
(Daniel, 11 April 2013 14:59)

Well, dear Daniel, Yugoslavia was not equal to Serbia. The other entities of Yugoslavia had as much say as Serbia. So, if the other entities of Yugoslavia did not want to live together in Yugoslavia (as it was their right under SFRY's Constitution) than there is no more Yugoslavia. Only delusional Serbia can see that as treason because in Serbia's eye Yugoslavia was nothing else than an extension of Serbia.

As for the Yugoslav army, the moment that it started to act not per orders of its commander-in-chief, i.e. the majority (5) of the Presidency of Yugoslavia (the 6 republics + Kosovo and Vojvodina) it effectively destroyed Yugoslavia.

Here's what it means...SHUT UP!

I've already stated. Kandic is not concerned with the fate of Serbian victims from the 90s because she feels Serbs should be placed under collective guilt for the wars. I am all for reconciliation but the Hague Tribunal has only served to make reconciliation much more difficult than it should have been. Kandic on the other hand supports the work of the Hague and thinks they have done an excellent job at handing out justice.

Furthermore, Kandic favors legitimizing the occupation of Kosovo i Metohija as an independent but doesn't hold that same reservation for Republika Srpska. This is at its core a very anti-Serbian policy.
(Ari Gold, 11 April 2013 19:22)

Ah, OK... it the "furthermore" part that really troubles you :) It's like the brilliant analysis of the CE of B92 forums sj which shows that as soon as a country recognizes Kosovo, that country becomes bankrupt...

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

Reader,

I have no powers to stop your willful misspresentation of my intentions. I commented on Haitian's view ("Serbs had all the high ranking jobs in Kosova, [...] never Albanians"). I gave an example that opposed Haitians claim. He used two absolutes in his claim, "all" and "never", which I found not corresponding to the truth, and most likely reflecting either his poor knowledge of rather recent history or his disregard of it. If you really see this act of mine as an attempt of generalization... you really need to twist it and hard.

I offered one Kosovo Albanian as a contra argument, to start with, to suggest that Kosovo's history is a more than a continuous saga of Albanians as powerless victims. I should have given some more names, too, like Mahmut Bakolli, who with Hoxha played significant role in drafting Yugoslavia's 1974 constitution that approved Kosovo's greatly extended powers of self-government.

Kosovars should ask one day what did we do then with the power we had, with our own administration, judiciary, chair in Yugoslav collective presidency and veto right in both Serbian and Federal Parliaments? Were we really totally powerless or did we just miss our chances?

About views of some Croatian persons: I didn't present them as "rock solid arguments". That's your invention. They present attitudes that exist in Croatia to some extent, reminding of Croatian (and Slovenian) attitudes toward Kosovo in times of Yugoslavia: unwillingness to finance Kosovo.

Haitian,

Post-Tito period? O.K., that clears up things. Sorry for my rude language. I'm sometimes so depressed of "facts" presented here.

Ah yes! The queen bee of Serbophobia, Natasa Kandic! The lady who's picture is hanging above Danilo's bed, she is his inspiration. From an outsider, you probably would have a hard time to process the fact that the most thriving industry in Serbia is Serbo-phobic NGO's. But yes, sadly there are a lot of people in Belgrade running around acting like Danilo. However all is not loss, although most media did not report it, there was a student protest against capitulation on Knez Mihajlova just yesterday.

Anyway, as far as Kandic goes, reconciliation is for Serbs to declare their nation was the supreme instigator in the wars of the 1990s, and anything other nations want from Serbs they must have for the sake of "reconciliation".

But other than a couple of these looney tunes, Nastasa Kandic does not have much respect among the general population in Serbia.

“Equalizing responsibility in a war is not reconciliation,” she stressed.

This is the core sentence of all discussion regarding reconciliation. Serbs were desperately trying to downplay their own crimes and guilt just in order to achieve this. They know that their denial of crimes in the 1990s failed epicly, so the new strategy is to equalize all crimes so in effect nobody is guilty. A very simply but also shameless attempt. But as the denial failed, that attempt is failing too. The Hague Tribunal makes very clear messages based on facts and since Serbs cannot counter those facts other than whining about an alleged Anti-Serbian world conspiracy. It is good to see that even within Serbia those lies fall short.

All sides committed crimes, but in magnitude and the primary source, guilt and responsibility lies in the Serbian people and their leaders.

All sides committed crimes, but in magnitude and the primary source, guilt and responsibility lies in the Serbian people and their leaders.
(John, 11 April 2013 12:33)

The guilt is 100%on the muslims and croats, serbs wanted to keep Yugoslavia as it was, the others wanted to destroy the country they already lived in. They turned their back on their own country and their own army. Just like Tito said, traitors should rot in hell.

Natasha Kandic comes from Kragujevac. Her father was a major in the Inspector Generals office of JNA and she grew up in an apartment opposite the current Serbian Parliament.
Her uncle, her dad’s brother, was prone to fits of strange behaviour. He made a coffin and would on occasions lie in it and light a candle and begin to cry and when questioned why he did this, he said he wanted to see what it would be like when he dies. This happened in the late 1940s.
So strange behaviour does run through her immediate family. How do I know, well a distant relative is married into the Kandic family.

Luckily no one in Serbia cares what this brainwashed nobody has to say.

@Ari Gold

you live in a different universe which has not much to do with reality. One can't take you seriously.

I think it is funny that he dares talk about "reconciliation" following the Yugolav Wars, when he denies war crimes and lays claim to the Croatian city of Vukovar.

would you/could you articulate what's "serbophobic" about anything in this article?
(Danilo, 11 April 2013 15:55)

It is not the article that is Serbo-phobic, it is Natasa Kandic (your hero) who is Serbo-phobic. Kandic had a problem with the President's speech at the UN. This speech was a fairly moderate speech. It was not the least bit inflammatory nor did it spread hate. It did not condone or deny any crimes committed by Serbian combatants in the 1990's. He simply brought up the fact that those who purported crimes against Serbian civilian populations have not been brought to justice. This was a problem for Kandic.

She is of the view that Serbian victims do not actually count because Serbs were the ones to instigate the wars and therefore cannot expect Croatian, Albanian and Bosnian Muslim war criminals to be ever brought to justice as a part of any "reconciliation".

This is something Natasa Kandic is notorious in Serbia for. The fact that you are even defending her, well.. it tells me just about everything I need to know about you. You are a part of those small but loud groups in Belgrade who are anti-Serbian to their very teeth. Despise being Serbian and everything about the country you live in. I don't blame you though. I blame communist ideology, it psychologically set a lot of our people back. You ought to learn more about your nations history and put down your KPJ membership booklet.

I thought there were no smart people in Belgrade. I was wrong until I read what she said. Thank you! She is right about everything she said.

I think it is funny that he dares talk about "reconciliation" following the Yugolav Wars, when he denies war crimes and lays claim to the Croatian city of Vukovar.
(Ian, UK, 11 April 2013 12:10)

Nikolic doesn’t care a hoot about reconciliation. He is using the same tactics the west uses. Can’t you recognise when someone is pulling your leg? You poor thing.

Kandic, go back to Albania!

"Equating responsibility in war is not reconciliation," said Kandic ... how come? So if I accept that the opponent and I we're both responsible for what happened and If we offere hands, that means that we are reconciled, realizing and admitting our mistakes, right? Of course, in accordance with the acceptance of responsibility is the division of punishment, right?...But only Serbs lend their hand to reconciliation so they are guilty... as the Croats did not admit anything....Today they are also encouraging fascism and no one warns them from the EU about that fact...not even our(Serbian) human rights activists :-) I guess that is ok, after all they don realy fight for the Serbian cause ... But ... we are already used to this ... we just hope for better days ...

I have no idea what she just said. I feel like I'm grading one of my student's papers.

Here's what it means...SHUT UP!

Ok, Ari. Could you, then, explain exactly what's "Serbophobic' about her?

You say she's my hero, but I don't actually know a lot about her. She seems to talk a lot about reconciliation and naming victims. You have some sort of problem with that for some reason?
(Danilo, 11 April 2013 18:25)

I've already stated. Kandic is not concerned with the fate of Serbian victims from the 90s because she feels Serbs should be placed under collective guilt for the wars. I am all for reconciliation but the Hague Tribunal has only served to make reconciliation much more difficult than it should have been. Kandic on the other hand supports the work of the Hague and thinks they have done an excellent job at handing out justice.

Furthermore, Kandic favors legitimizing the occupation of Kosovo i Metohija as an independent but doesn't hold that same reservation for Republika Srpska. This is at its core a very anti-Serbian policy.

But I don't feel too bad for her. She is banking in on a thriving industry in Belgrade- hating Serbs.

Dear Dardania flag,

You wrote:
"She is right about everything she said."

What did Kandic say of the ICTY verdict that found two Ante Gotovina and Mladen Markac not guilty of war crimes against Serbs in Croatia? Well, she said the verdict did not bring justice to the victims of Operation Storm. She said that the first verdict "fitted the facts, that there was a state plan for expelling the Serbs". And she went on saying that now it will be harder to prosecute those who are responsible for war crimes before the Croatian courts.

Dardania flag, you are among first Albanians to admit that the not guilty verdict of Gotovina and Markac wasn't right. I see some progress here.

And Haitian,

I don't the origin of your alias but it sure reflects the very low educational level you've enjoyed. You write:

"Serbs had all the high ranking jobs in Kosova, [...] never Albanians."

I think you could start educating yourself, first reading for example Fadil Hoxha's biography "Fadil Hoxha në vetën e parë" (F.H. in the first person) based on interviews by Veton and Rexhai Surroi.

Hoxha held many high posts in Yugoslavia (and Kosovo). He was the President of the Assembly of the Kosovo Autonomous Province, a member of Yugoslav Communist Party Presidium, a member of the Federal Presidency, and the Vice President of the Federal Presidency (the highest leadership next to Tito in Yugoslavia).

Haitian, isn't it easy to have opinions without knowing a thing?

Reader,

Can't you do better than that? Tell me where did I suggest that Hoxha represented "the situation of all Albanians at that time". I'm well passed my primary school, save your foolish contra argument to kids. NO-ONE EVER represents all of anything. Because this "all" doesn't exist. I can still send you to Albanians who had it perfectly even during Milosevic time.

I have no sympathies toward Milosevic. For me Serbia is 100% better off without Kosovo than having it as a ball and chain in leg. Well, in fact not in leg but around neck. I'm just aware of the ignorance that Kosovo Albanians (especially those under 35 years of age) have about Kosovo's history in Yugoslavia. I'm not saying it wasn't troublesome but there were times when situation was getting better (owing much to efforts and clever politics of Hoxha). And ignoring the role that extremist Albanians had in shooting down the progress does not serve the course of Kosovo Albanians in the long run. Like my Croatian friend from Dalmatia told me: "Funny those Kosovars, they think we're their friends. Like they can't remember that we absolutely hated to send them our moneys, and we wished them out always. The Catholic ones of us thanked God they weren't closer to us." I remember he told there were many Croatians who couldn't understand the popularity of Faruk Begolli and Bekim Fehmiu among Serbs.

So, this is all for this time about suggesting the situation of all Albanians at some given time in history...

The guilt is 100%on the muslims and croats, serbs wanted to keep Yugoslavia as it was, the others wanted to destroy the country they already lived in. They turned their back on their own country and their own army. Just like Tito said, traitors should rot in hell.
(Daniel, 11 April 2013 14:59)

They didn't want to destroy their own country, they wanted to liberate and free their own country. After all Yugoslavia was "Greater Serbia" under the flag of "equality" for all. However in reality this wasn't the case as some were more "equal" than others with the Serbs controlling 4 of the 8 votes (Serbia, Vojvodina, Kosova and Montenegero), whereas the Croats only had one vote (Croatia), the Slovenes only had one vote (Slovenia), the Macedonians only had one vote (Macedonia) and the Bosniaks didn't have a vote, note even Bosnia's as it was always split. Serbs had all the high ranking jobs in Kosova, Vojvodina and Bosnian, never Albanians, Hungarians or Bosniaks. Later Vojvodina's and Kosova's autonomy was stripped, then after this the Serbs demanded autonomy in Croatia. When Slovenia and Croatia decided to leave this artifical Serb dominated state, Beograd sent in the army to preserve "Greater Serbia".

If Croats and Muslims are guilty of anything, they're guilty of not wanting to live in Greater Serbia!

Ari,

would you/could you articulate what's "serbophobic" about anything in this article?

I agree with you Daniel, I also am not quite sure what she is saying. Maybe it's in the translation by B92 from Serbian, but what is she actually trying to say - especially the part about the Croat and Serbs generals? No, they did not get equal treatment, the Croats were acquitted.

This is the face of Serbophobia. She is the biggest traitor next to Sonja Biserko. All that money she recieves from the West must make her feel pretty good about herself.

"the Croats were acquitted"

Momčilo Perišić, the Yugoslav general she was comparing them to was also acquitted.

Ok, Ari. Could you, then, explain exactly what's "Serbophobic' about her?

You say she's my hero, but I don't actually know a lot about her. She seems to talk a lot about reconciliation and naming victims. You have some sort of problem with that for some reason?

would you/could you articulate what's "serbophobic" about anything in this article?
(Danilo, 11 April 2013 15:55)

If Ari disagrees with something, he automatically labels it "serbophobic".

"I've already stated. Kandic is not concerned with the fate of Serbian victims from the 90s because she feels Serbs should be placed under collective guilt for the wars. "

Really? Could you provide an example of this, please? Everything I've read from her seems to indicate that she's for an accounting of victims regardless of ethnicity. Maybe you're seeing a boogeyman where there is none. I'm quite curious to see your examples.


"Kandic on the other hand supports the work of the Hague and thinks they have done an excellent job at handing out justice. "

Not according to what she said about the Gotovina appeal.

I have no idea what she just said. I feel like I'm grading one of my student's papers.
(Daniel, 11 April 2013 13:31)

You have some really smart student's in your class.

To Ari Gold,

Aren't you even a bit ashame for inventing (lying would be the correct word but I'm trying to behave) "facts" as "Kandic is not concerned with the fate of Serbian victims from the 90s because she feels Serbs should be placed under collective guilt for the wars"?

If you allow yourself, read what I wrote to Dardania flag about Kandic.

I know Australia is far away you may be shortsighted, but then, get yourself glasses! Or a girlfriend so you have something more constructive to do than pis.ing in the wind.

Reader,

I have no powers to stop your willful misspresentation of my intentions. I commented on Haitian's view ("Serbs had all the high ranking jobs in Kosova, [...] never Albanians"). I gave an example that opposed Haitians claim. He used two absolutes in his claim, "all" and "never", which I found not corresponding to the truth, and most likely reflecting either his poor knowledge of rather recent history or his disregard of it. If you really see this act of mine as an attempt of generalization... you really need to twist it and hard.

I offered one Kosovo Albanian as a contra argument, to start with, to suggest that Kosovo's history is a more than a continuous saga of Albanians as powerless victims. I should have given some more names, too, like Mahmut Bakolli, who with Hoxha played significant role in drafting Yugoslavia's 1974 constitution that approved Kosovo's greatly extended powers of self-government.

Kosovars should ask one day what did we do then with the power we had, with our own administration, judiciary, chair in Yugoslav collective presidency and veto right in both Serbian and Federal Parliaments? Were we really totally powerless or did we just miss our chances?

About views of some Croatian persons: I didn't present them as "rock solid arguments". That's your invention. They present attitudes that exist in Croatia to some extent, reminding of Croatian (and Slovenian) attitudes toward Kosovo in times of Yugoslavia: unwillingness to finance Kosovo.

Haitian, isn't it easy to have opinions without knowing a thing?
(Olli, 11 April 2013 19:23)

It is even easier to talk about one person and pretend that he represents the situation of all Albanians at that time. Leaving out what happened to those who were working in the schools, University, media, police, and other places.

(Olli, 11 April 2013 22:08)

Funny Olli, you replied to another post talking about Albanians in general by bringing up a single case as a counterexample. If that is not generalization, I don't know what is. Thank you also for bringing into the plate what a Croatian friend of yours said about what he has heard from many other Croatians. That was a "very solid" point. That other thing about the ignorance of Albanians under the age of 35 was the cherry on top though. Your awareness of it is a "rock solid argument" in this discussion.

Hey Ari

How come you're declining the invitation to give examples of Kandic's "Serbophobia" and advocating for Serbian collective guilt?

perhaps you posted as "propaganda" and, however ironically, used the propaganda technique of merely repeating an allegation.

or maybe it was someone else being unintentionally clueless.

I'm genuinely curious as I don't actually know much about this women except what I've read on a few articles on this site. Since you accuse me of idolizing her and since your posts don't pass the sniff test, you've made me curious. Tell me about this villain, please.

Haitian,

Post-Tito period? O.K., that clears up things. Sorry for my rude language. I'm sometimes so depressed of "facts" presented here.

The guilt is 100%on the muslims and croats, serbs wanted to keep Yugoslavia as it was, the others wanted to destroy the country they already lived in. They turned their back on their own country and their own army. Just like Tito said, traitors should rot in hell.
(Daniel, 11 April 2013 14:59)

Well, dear Daniel, Yugoslavia was not equal to Serbia. The other entities of Yugoslavia had as much say as Serbia. So, if the other entities of Yugoslavia did not want to live together in Yugoslavia (as it was their right under SFRY's Constitution) than there is no more Yugoslavia. Only delusional Serbia can see that as treason because in Serbia's eye Yugoslavia was nothing else than an extension of Serbia.

As for the Yugoslav army, the moment that it started to act not per orders of its commander-in-chief, i.e. the majority (5) of the Presidency of Yugoslavia (the 6 republics + Kosovo and Vojvodina) it effectively destroyed Yugoslavia.

I've already stated. Kandic is not concerned with the fate of Serbian victims from the 90s because she feels Serbs should be placed under collective guilt for the wars. I am all for reconciliation but the Hague Tribunal has only served to make reconciliation much more difficult than it should have been. Kandic on the other hand supports the work of the Hague and thinks they have done an excellent job at handing out justice.

Furthermore, Kandic favors legitimizing the occupation of Kosovo i Metohija as an independent but doesn't hold that same reservation for Republika Srpska. This is at its core a very anti-Serbian policy.
(Ari Gold, 11 April 2013 19:22)

Ah, OK... it the "furthermore" part that really troubles you :) It's like the brilliant analysis of the CE of B92 forums sj which shows that as soon as a country recognizes Kosovo, that country becomes bankrupt...

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

And Haitian,

I don't the origin of your alias but it sure reflects the very low educational level you've enjoyed. You write:

"Serbs had all the high ranking jobs in Kosova, [...] never Albanians."

I think you could start educating yourself, first reading for example Fadil Hoxha's biography "Fadil Hoxha në vetën e parë" (F.H. in the first person) based on interviews by Veton and Rexhai Surroi.

Hoxha held many high posts in Yugoslavia (and Kosovo). He was the President of the Assembly of the Kosovo Autonomous Province, a member of Yugoslav Communist Party Presidium, a member of the Federal Presidency, and the Vice President of the Federal Presidency (the highest leadership next to Tito in Yugoslavia).

Haitian, isn't it easy to have opinions without knowing a thing?
(Olli, 11 April 2013 19:23)

I was referring to the Post-Tito period as my commnet was regarding the break up of Yugoslavia. In the Post-Tito period, (the period when Serbs generally dominated Yugoslavia), Serbs had all/ vast majority of the high ranking positions in Kosova, such as in Government, the Police, Military, Prishtina University, business jobs ect however I had to cut that bit out of my previous comment to fit the 1500 character limit therefore I apologize for unintentionally misleading you.

Olli, isn't it easy jumping to conclusions?