Ban Ki-moon: Tribunals key for reconciliation

"[Ban said in the UN seat that supporting the tribunals and courts means respecting - and not calling into question - their independence, impartiality and integrity, and it also means implementing their decisions. ]

It means safeguarding them from those who seek to undermine them for reasons that may have more to do with politics than justice, Ban said. "

Now, whom could he have possibly had in mind?

"[Ban said in the UN seat that supporting the tribunals and courts means respecting - and not calling into question - their independence, impartiality and integrity, and it also means implementing their decisions. ]

It means safeguarding them from those who seek to undermine them for reasons that may have more to do with politics than justice, Ban said. "

Now, whom could he have possibly had in mind?
(Amer, 10 April 2013 19:59)

Exactly! Jeremic's attempt to attack those institutions totally backfired.

I agree with the Secretary General, however I believe it has the opposite affect when the punishments are one sided.
(robert1899, 10 April 2013 19:27)
So you feel the victims should be punished at the same rate as the criminals.
The thing you need to get through your head finally is Serbia is to blame for the unrest in Yugoslavia, others would have never ventured into war if it was not initiated by Serbias desire to be master of all. Thus more Serbs are guilty of war crimes. Serbia's acceptance of that will result in faster reconciliation and healing. Stunts such as this debate by Serbs are only delaying it.

Hague Appeals Judge Fausto Pocar said that the release of Gotovina and Markac “contradicts any sense of justice,”

"According to the data of the Veritas Documentation and Information Centre, out of 1,922 victims in the area of Krajina, 546 or 28 percent were women, two-thirds of them aged over 60. Civilians accounted for 62% of the victims.

Moreover, 19 people under 18 years of age were killed, nine of them under 14, while 1,772 children were left parentless.

Light is yet to be shed on the destiny of 975 people, 674 of them civilians, including 331 women, while Croatia still avoids exhumation of even known graves, with at least 413 remains.

Nearly 7,000 Serbs went missing and 404,887 were expelled from Croatia, 141,887 of them from cities in which there were no armed conflicts."

There is no reconciliation without justice.

"Reconciliation will come about when all the parties to a conflict are ready to speak the truth to each other. Honoring all the victims is at the heart of this endeavor. That is why it is so critically important to ensure atrocities are neither denied, nor bizarrely celebrated as national triumphs," said Jeremić.


Tell that to your fellow countrymen(Serbs),and not to anybody else.

"UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon stated in New York on Wednesday that reconciliation is one of the great essentials in the work for post-crisis healing."

I agree with the Secretary General, however I believe it has the opposite affect when the punishments are one sided.

"That is why it is so critically important to ensure atrocities are neither denied, nor bizarrely celebrated as national triumphs," said Jeremić.

Exactly, and thats why its good that Serbia admitted the Srebrenica massacre, though a lot of Serbs still nowadays are in denial or defend these horrible atrocities as 'defending' and glorify the responsible persons, namely Mladic and Karadzic, as heroes.

The article doesn't mention that Ban Ki Moon left the assembly after his rebuttal to Jeremic's grandstanding. Didn't stay to hear Predident of Serbia's tirade. I guess no one is interested in what he has to say. Except Drug Vuk. Peculiar that this event is not being covered in world media. I guess no one is interested in Serbia's interests. Maybe should check media from Russia, Iran, China, Venezeula and North Korea.

"supporting the tribunals and courts means respecting - and not calling into question - their independence, impartiality and integrity, and it also means implementing their decisions.
It means safeguarding them from those who seek to undermine them for reasons that may have more to do with politics than justice, Ban said"

I knew he would not support what went on today. Reconciliation cannot happen as long as the UN is used by the likes of Vuk Jeremic and Nikolic to put up shows like these where Nikolic gets the podium and the representative of Srebrenica is sent out of the room.

What limited western exposure this debate is getting is not good for Serbia, and especially not Jeremic. Several leaders are now saying Jeremic is exploiting the position for his own political agenda. US, Canada and Jordon boycotted because victims in Bosnia were not allowed. The incident with the Mothers of Srebrenica leader(who was allowed to attend as a silent observer) is very bad for Nikolic and Jeremic especially.
After the ICJ ruling one would think maybe Jeremic should think carefully his actions. Now it is kind of a shame that a UN document that will be filed away somewhere is the only thing to come out of this.
Not a good week for Serbs in the international arena, 1st the EU and now the UN.

"There were drafts to eliminate many Serb areas and move them out through ethnic cleansing and murde. That is what would have happened.
(Aleks, 11 April 2013 08:52)

I don't know if there have been those drafts and if that would have happened, like you claim. But I (and the whole world) knows the fact that this ethnic cleansing happened BY Serbs, murdering 10.000s and expelling 100.000s of non-Serbian people from what's nowadays the RS in Bosnia.

And about Croatia: When the 'Serbian Republic of Krajina' was installed, some 10.000s of ethnic Croats were expelled. The expelling of Serbs only came years later, in the Operation Storm.

Pictures say more than words, so please have a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Demographics_of_RSK.jpg

Thanks

"In my view, the paramount question is how international criminal justice can help reconcile former adversaries in post-conflict, transitioning societies," said Jeremić.

Oh, I see were little Vuk went wrong… According to the (unanimous) UNSC the purpose of the tribunal is to bring to justice persons responsible for crimes and to halt the commission of such crimes. Generally speaking, the purpose of punishment in criminal law is retribution, deterrence, incapacitation, rehabilitant and restitution. Reconciliation of former adversaries is the job of politicians not judges and failure of the former to do that is not a reason to blame the latter, even though we do understand that Serbs love to blame others for all their failures.
----------

“Ban said in the UN seat that supporting the tribunals and courts means respecting - and not calling into question - their independence, impartiality and integrity, and it also means implementing their decisions.”

I guess an adult was needed in the room; little Vuk could not prevent Ban from participating :)

To the commentor called 'think about it'......

Think about this...and you get to answer HONESTLY. Just what do you think the Croatians were going to do to the Serbs living in Croatia when they broke away in 1991? Serbs with any kind of ranking position in jobs were dismissed, nationalistic rhetoric was through the roof, Tudjman already had the drafts to get rid of the Serbs, and just 50 years earlier when Croatia went independent they slaughtered nearly one million Serbs. Did you think they weren't going to kill them again?

Also, Izetbegovic had similar plans in Bosnia to create an Islamic state where Serbs were to be second class citizens and basically slaves to the state. There were drafts to eliminate many Serb areas and move them out through ethnic cleansing and murde. That is what would have happened. If you think Bosnia would have just broken away and welcomed the Serbs with open armsyou're on crack.

Finally, think about this....how many Croats or Bosnian Muslims who were living in Serbia proper, (within the actual borders of Serbia), how many were ethnically cleansed or killed in Serbia? ZERO! So of the 3 entities, Croatians and Bosnian Muslims went to cleanse and kill Serbs, yet Serbia was the only one to not do any of that. The Serbs didn't start this, they did what they did because they were going to be attacked.

@(think about it) you got what you deserved you wanted a war ......

Comm. Parrison...again, I ask you the same question. An HONEST answer...what do you think Croats and Bosnian Muslims were going to do to the Serbs? You say you don't know? You throw out the facts of what happened, with 10's of thousands killed and 100's of thousands ethnically cleansed. What about the facts of what happened to the Serbian side? What about the history of what happened to Serbs from before? Nobody in their right mind was going to sit around and wait for that to happen again. Those are facts you never want to acknowledge.

I'm not going to dispute or deny the sufferings of anyone, it's quite obvious that Bosnian Muslims and Croats suffered from Serbs in the war. The Serbs were militarily stronger too. However, there were 10's of thousands of Serbs murdered and 100's of thousands ethnically cleansed too. And this all started well before operation storm, storm was the biggest single event of ethnic killing and cleansing of the whole war. This is what nobody talks about, nobody cares about. Well, you can't disregard any victims.

You want to know who started the war? Izetbegovic and Tudjman seceeded with their plans to eliminate the Serbs, the Serbs took up arms and fought before those plans were carried out. All 3 sides went to ridiculous extremes and should pay for what they did. But, the whole truth must be told, not just one side.

"Reconciliation will come about when all the parties to a conflict are ready to speak the truth to each other. Honoring all the victims is at the heart of this endeavor. That is why it is so critically important to ensure atrocities are neither denied, nor bizarrely celebrated as national triumphs," said Jeremić.


Tell that to your fellow countrymen(Serbs),and not to anybody else.

"UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon stated in New York on Wednesday that reconciliation is one of the great essentials in the work for post-crisis healing."

I agree with the Secretary General, however I believe it has the opposite affect when the punishments are one sided.

Hague Appeals Judge Fausto Pocar said that the release of Gotovina and Markac “contradicts any sense of justice,”

"According to the data of the Veritas Documentation and Information Centre, out of 1,922 victims in the area of Krajina, 546 or 28 percent were women, two-thirds of them aged over 60. Civilians accounted for 62% of the victims.

Moreover, 19 people under 18 years of age were killed, nine of them under 14, while 1,772 children were left parentless.

Light is yet to be shed on the destiny of 975 people, 674 of them civilians, including 331 women, while Croatia still avoids exhumation of even known graves, with at least 413 remains.

Nearly 7,000 Serbs went missing and 404,887 were expelled from Croatia, 141,887 of them from cities in which there were no armed conflicts."

There is no reconciliation without justice.

"[Ban said in the UN seat that supporting the tribunals and courts means respecting - and not calling into question - their independence, impartiality and integrity, and it also means implementing their decisions. ]

It means safeguarding them from those who seek to undermine them for reasons that may have more to do with politics than justice, Ban said. "

Now, whom could he have possibly had in mind?

To the commentor called 'think about it'......

Think about this...and you get to answer HONESTLY. Just what do you think the Croatians were going to do to the Serbs living in Croatia when they broke away in 1991? Serbs with any kind of ranking position in jobs were dismissed, nationalistic rhetoric was through the roof, Tudjman already had the drafts to get rid of the Serbs, and just 50 years earlier when Croatia went independent they slaughtered nearly one million Serbs. Did you think they weren't going to kill them again?

Also, Izetbegovic had similar plans in Bosnia to create an Islamic state where Serbs were to be second class citizens and basically slaves to the state. There were drafts to eliminate many Serb areas and move them out through ethnic cleansing and murde. That is what would have happened. If you think Bosnia would have just broken away and welcomed the Serbs with open armsyou're on crack.

Finally, think about this....how many Croats or Bosnian Muslims who were living in Serbia proper, (within the actual borders of Serbia), how many were ethnically cleansed or killed in Serbia? ZERO! So of the 3 entities, Croatians and Bosnian Muslims went to cleanse and kill Serbs, yet Serbia was the only one to not do any of that. The Serbs didn't start this, they did what they did because they were going to be attacked.

"[Ban said in the UN seat that supporting the tribunals and courts means respecting - and not calling into question - their independence, impartiality and integrity, and it also means implementing their decisions. ]

It means safeguarding them from those who seek to undermine them for reasons that may have more to do with politics than justice, Ban said. "

Now, whom could he have possibly had in mind?
(Amer, 10 April 2013 19:59)

Exactly! Jeremic's attempt to attack those institutions totally backfired.

I agree with the Secretary General, however I believe it has the opposite affect when the punishments are one sided.
(robert1899, 10 April 2013 19:27)
So you feel the victims should be punished at the same rate as the criminals.
The thing you need to get through your head finally is Serbia is to blame for the unrest in Yugoslavia, others would have never ventured into war if it was not initiated by Serbias desire to be master of all. Thus more Serbs are guilty of war crimes. Serbia's acceptance of that will result in faster reconciliation and healing. Stunts such as this debate by Serbs are only delaying it.

"That is why it is so critically important to ensure atrocities are neither denied, nor bizarrely celebrated as national triumphs," said Jeremić.

Exactly, and thats why its good that Serbia admitted the Srebrenica massacre, though a lot of Serbs still nowadays are in denial or defend these horrible atrocities as 'defending' and glorify the responsible persons, namely Mladic and Karadzic, as heroes.

Comm. Parrison...again, I ask you the same question. An HONEST answer...what do you think Croats and Bosnian Muslims were going to do to the Serbs? You say you don't know? You throw out the facts of what happened, with 10's of thousands killed and 100's of thousands ethnically cleansed. What about the facts of what happened to the Serbian side? What about the history of what happened to Serbs from before? Nobody in their right mind was going to sit around and wait for that to happen again. Those are facts you never want to acknowledge.

I'm not going to dispute or deny the sufferings of anyone, it's quite obvious that Bosnian Muslims and Croats suffered from Serbs in the war. The Serbs were militarily stronger too. However, there were 10's of thousands of Serbs murdered and 100's of thousands ethnically cleansed too. And this all started well before operation storm, storm was the biggest single event of ethnic killing and cleansing of the whole war. This is what nobody talks about, nobody cares about. Well, you can't disregard any victims.

You want to know who started the war? Izetbegovic and Tudjman seceeded with their plans to eliminate the Serbs, the Serbs took up arms and fought before those plans were carried out. All 3 sides went to ridiculous extremes and should pay for what they did. But, the whole truth must be told, not just one side.

@(think about it) you got what you deserved you wanted a war ......

The article doesn't mention that Ban Ki Moon left the assembly after his rebuttal to Jeremic's grandstanding. Didn't stay to hear Predident of Serbia's tirade. I guess no one is interested in what he has to say. Except Drug Vuk. Peculiar that this event is not being covered in world media. I guess no one is interested in Serbia's interests. Maybe should check media from Russia, Iran, China, Venezeula and North Korea.

"supporting the tribunals and courts means respecting - and not calling into question - their independence, impartiality and integrity, and it also means implementing their decisions.
It means safeguarding them from those who seek to undermine them for reasons that may have more to do with politics than justice, Ban said"

I knew he would not support what went on today. Reconciliation cannot happen as long as the UN is used by the likes of Vuk Jeremic and Nikolic to put up shows like these where Nikolic gets the podium and the representative of Srebrenica is sent out of the room.

What limited western exposure this debate is getting is not good for Serbia, and especially not Jeremic. Several leaders are now saying Jeremic is exploiting the position for his own political agenda. US, Canada and Jordon boycotted because victims in Bosnia were not allowed. The incident with the Mothers of Srebrenica leader(who was allowed to attend as a silent observer) is very bad for Nikolic and Jeremic especially.
After the ICJ ruling one would think maybe Jeremic should think carefully his actions. Now it is kind of a shame that a UN document that will be filed away somewhere is the only thing to come out of this.
Not a good week for Serbs in the international arena, 1st the EU and now the UN.

"In my view, the paramount question is how international criminal justice can help reconcile former adversaries in post-conflict, transitioning societies," said Jeremić.

Oh, I see were little Vuk went wrong… According to the (unanimous) UNSC the purpose of the tribunal is to bring to justice persons responsible for crimes and to halt the commission of such crimes. Generally speaking, the purpose of punishment in criminal law is retribution, deterrence, incapacitation, rehabilitant and restitution. Reconciliation of former adversaries is the job of politicians not judges and failure of the former to do that is not a reason to blame the latter, even though we do understand that Serbs love to blame others for all their failures.
----------

“Ban said in the UN seat that supporting the tribunals and courts means respecting - and not calling into question - their independence, impartiality and integrity, and it also means implementing their decisions.”

I guess an adult was needed in the room; little Vuk could not prevent Ban from participating :)

"There were drafts to eliminate many Serb areas and move them out through ethnic cleansing and murde. That is what would have happened.
(Aleks, 11 April 2013 08:52)

I don't know if there have been those drafts and if that would have happened, like you claim. But I (and the whole world) knows the fact that this ethnic cleansing happened BY Serbs, murdering 10.000s and expelling 100.000s of non-Serbian people from what's nowadays the RS in Bosnia.

And about Croatia: When the 'Serbian Republic of Krajina' was installed, some 10.000s of ethnic Croats were expelled. The expelling of Serbs only came years later, in the Operation Storm.

Pictures say more than words, so please have a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Demographics_of_RSK.jpg

Thanks