Thursday, 04.04.2013.
12:36
The dialogue’s failure is not only Serbia’s failure but also Kosovo and the EU’s, analysts Ognjen Pribićević and Vesna Pešić have stated.
Izvor: B92
IMAGE SOURCE
pre 11 godina
if Serbia is willing to grant the same rights to the Albanian majority of "Presevo & Bujonovac"
Actually in BujanoVac there is a huge serb majority and in Presevo its 50/50 and last but not least Serbia is a country, Kosovo isn´t. No Un seat remember?
pre 11 godina
Serbia cannot solve the issue without recognizing Kosova. It's impossible since Prishtina will not accept less than an recognition from Belgrade.
Serbia cannot solve the issue without Kosova.
(Demi, 4 April 2013 13:58)
Who cares about what Pristina says, recognition is not a condition from EU but to solve the issue with the institutions in the north. I wipe my ass with Pristinas opinion on anything.
pre 11 godina
So Pešič is saying that Serbia is showing that it is determined to solve the Kosovo issue but in fact Serbia is the one who is not agreeing to solve the problem.
It is a very well known fact that Serbia lost Kosovo in the war of 1999 and therefore Serbia should stop wasting time and money trying to get her hands involved in Kosovo.
Serbia has forgotten about the serbs living in South of Ibar river and it should also forget about the serbs north of Ibar river. Are the lives of serbs living in north of Ibar more important than the lives of those living in south? No, they are the same.
The more Serbia wants to be involved in Kosovo the more people's money will be wasted.
pre 11 godina
“Serbia cannot be without the EU. Only Norway and Switzerland are outside the system but they are full of oil and money. We have neither oil nor money. Look at Serbia. We do not have a potential to attract great European powers to invest here so we could develop,” Pribićević pointed out.
Yep, maybe this helps to stop the silly comparison between Serbia and Switzerland/Norway which indeed do fine outside EU (though their economy is tightly coupled, and they are members of the Schengen Treaty)
pre 11 godina
"a New Day"
If you want to understand the world and how it works, then you must take some time to study Money & Credit and who controls them.
"Money" is the coins and bank notes you have in your wallet. I have about £15 in "Money" on me at the moment. I also have a bank account, credit cards, and a mortgage (house loan). These bank-created funds are called "Credit" and amount to hundreds of thousands of pounds.
So here is a statement of my finances:
Money = £15
Credit = £500,000
The £15 "Money" was created by the government - it printed the bank notes and stamped the coins but it did not borrow this "Money" so no interest is payable.
The £500,000 "Credit" was created by private banks. These private banks did not have "Money" in their accounts when they offered this "Credit" they merely used banking tricks to create "Credit" out of thin air and they charge interest for this "Credit."
The global elite control "Credit" and have run the world for hundreds of years using this trick.
To study Money & Credit is a revolutionary act. Knowing how the "Credit" system works and who benefits from it is the first step to liberation.
pre 11 godina
"Serbian goods are wanted in Africa, the Middle East and Russia."
(Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 17:10)
- Serbia, Africa, the Middle East and Russia. Wow! You have quite a winning team there Mr.Thomasevic. Good luck when you join that league of nations.
However if you asked them if it was wise to join the EU and Euro in the first place, then I am sure a clear majority would say NO! WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT OUR INDEPENDENCE.
(Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 17:11)
- I know you're sitting comfortable somewhere in Canada or Australia while promoting "your" independence. How about you let the locals decide if you actually care about them?
Serbia should grant autonomy to Kosovo for 100 years.
(Bob, 4 April 2013 15:33)
- Bob, thank you for your contribution :)
Albanians keep equating the status of Serbs in Kosovo with the status of Albanians in Serbia proper. That is like equating the status of Turks in Kurdish entity with the status of Kurds in Turkey proper. Turkey is an internationally recognised country and a member of all international bodies, and hence subject to international rules when it comes to her law and order. Kurdish entity is not, so nothing can be legally guaranteed nor enforced by the international bodies. The same with Kosovo.
(Teslavio, 4 April 2013 14:36)
- You call that an argument? Come on, I know you can do better
pre 11 godina
Yes Michael print money, we all saw how well that went for Serbia in the nineties. Granted, it seems that was orchestrated by Milosevic to rob the Serbs of all their deutchmarks and other worthy cash and send it to banks in Cyprus, still it was really fun to see it happening. Print trillions of dinars for all we care. I would go back to getting a Serbian passport just to vote for you as president of Serbia if you run for office. Here is one Albanian Serbia would gain back in its books if you do that. Truly.
pre 11 godina
Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 19:11
One question, please do you have an accountant that handles your financial transactions? If not your family and heirs if there are any have my sympathies.
pre 11 godina
Danilo said, "Mixing and mingling in life's rich pageantry is a good thing - better than various isolated bubbles."
Rich pageantry? One only needs to read your comments here to appreciate the hypocrisy. You move to Serbia-(I doubt you do a lot of mingling)- and then express(endlessly)your general disdain for all things Serbian.
pre 11 godina
Alex
Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are as ruined as Greece, Cyprus and Spain. Young people are leaving the Baltic states in droves. You are wrong about Poles; millions of young Poles have left their homeland and few return. They make new lives for themselves and their families in foreign countries. This is what the EU offers Serbia. You will be offered the chance to travel to Germany to do menial tasks. Wow! That has got to be worth giving away Kosovo with its wealth of history and trillions of euros of metals and minerals.
If I remind you of a right-wing politician, then you remind me of those pathetic DOS students who, for a few dollars, sold their nation to NATO.
pre 11 godina
Micheal
You sound very much like right wing politicians in Norway, Holland and particularly in Britain.
We must aspire to do better. There is a chance we must not miss it with the EU. Yes Europe is having its difficulties but we must try and overcome the difficulties not leave it and ignore it.
There are countries in the East who have prospered look at Poland. An economic power today. Look at Hungary, Check republic, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia etc.
These countries in the South; Italy,Portugal, Greece, Cypress have no-one but their own government to blame for borrowing much more than they could pay. The crises in Spain and Ireland are different; we should not mix them here.
When it comes to Serbia’s goods I believe it has a better chance within the EU. Just like Poland and Germany, Serbia has a much more balanced economy; with a range of products at high quality manufacturing at cheaper rates. I believe that Serbia’s products are sellable in the EU as well as to the other countries that you suggest; Russia, Africa Asia.
As for you, you sound like a right wing politicians in either; Holland, Norway or Britain. Yet Norway, Holland and Britain all three have as a head of state a monarch. I believe in meritocracy.
In the EU we have hopes! What do you offer? A monarch! Something that is more fitting in the middle ages. Thank you, I rather go with the EU and hope for a better tomorrow.
pre 11 godina
Seems Germans aren't happy with welcoming their new EU neighbors.
German Interior Minister: 'We'll Veto Schengen for Romania and Bulgaria'
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/interior-minister-friedrich-says-no-schengen-for-bulgaria-and-romania-a-886704.html
"Social worker Rolf Karling remarked, Those idiots in Brussels had absolutely no idea what they were doing," he said. They wanted Romania and Bulgaria to be part of the EU because they were scared Russia might get its claws into them – but they never thought it through. Now we are faced with this. And it's going to get worse – two, three, four million will come. You open the floodgates from a very poor country to very rich ones. Wouldn't you move?"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9919552/Romanian-and-Bulgarian-migration-into-Germany-They-come-to-look-for-a-better-life.-But-someone-must-pay-for-that.html
"The homeless population in Germany has grown sharply in recent years, partly because of a growing influx of destitute Romanians, Bulgarians and other Eastern Europeans. Since their native countries joined the European Union in 2007, Bulgarians and Romanians have been able to enter Germany without visas or residence permits."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-cities-struggle-to-accommodate-rise-in-homeless-a-885484.html
pre 11 godina
you're the one that said Bulgarians and Romanians don't have visa-free travel. I was addressing that.
It's good for people to leave and come back to their contries. Poland is a good example. Lots of people left, many returned. Mixing and mingling in life's rich pageantry is a good thing - better than various isolated bubbles.
pre 11 godina
Danilo
Serbs don't have visa-free travel to the UK and Bulgarians and Romanians, despite being in the EU for 6 years, still cannot work in the UK.
Anyway, why all the focus on freedom of movement? Surely the EU exists to help countries develop so that their populations are happy to stay where they are?
Clearly the east European and Southern European EU members are not top priority for the EU's Germanic master race. Romanians and Bulgarians are nothing more than Gastarbeiter doing the jobs that the "advanced" western Europeans believe are beneath them.
The EU is nothing more than a scam designed to rob and enslave all Europeans.
pre 11 godina
"Belgrade gets loans and sells bonds with German interest rates to pay the pensions, police, the Serbs in northern Kosovo, etc etc etc."
(Reader, 4 April 2013 17:27)
Does the Serbian govt pay pensions, police, etc in Euros or Dinars? Why does the Serbian govt need to borrow from German banks? The German banks are all technically bankrupt, so how come they can lend money to Serbia?
The magic is that banks are allowed to create loans out of nothing. Why doesn't the Serbian govt create Dinars debt-free to pay pensions and its other expenses.
Will this cause inflation? It wouldn't cause any more inflation if the Serbian govt created Dinars than if private banks create Euros.
pre 11 godina
You really do live in some parallel universe, Michel.
Romanians, Bulgarians, Croats and Serbs for that matter have visa-free travel within the EU. This year restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians working were lifted in most EU countries.
I've never met a Romanian or Bulgarian that thinks joining the EU was a mistake. Mind you, my sample isn't huge. Same with Baltic states. When I visited Estonia, for example, people seemed pretty keen about the EU. I think they voted 87% or something. Basically everyone but their Russian minority.
pre 11 godina
BOB........ if anyone deserves a penny, it would be you! believe me.
pre 11 godina
Bob said :"Serbia should grant autonomy to Kosovo for 100 years"
Kosovo had it's autonomy under Tito's regime (and honestly at those times the life conditions of Kosovars were much better compared to the albanians living in the communist Albania.
Has no sense talking about "autonomy": after the Kosovo Polje speech!
Why kosovars should beleieve to the "good intentions" of Belgrade after being killed,raped,burned and driven out from Kosova in the 99?
Autonomy can be good for Vojvodine but for Kosova is too late to talk about.
pre 11 godina
Darko
The things you mention are not on the EU’s agenda. Serbs are Cyrillic-using, Orthodox Slavs, just like the Russians. As the EU hates Russia it hates Serbia, too.
Investment in Serbia will be determined by private businesses, not the EU. Serbia is in a good location in the centre of Europe and is attractive to Asian investors. But of course foreign investment will only ever be a small part of total investment. Most jobs in Serbia will be with Serbia businesses, and that will have very little to do with the EU.
The Romanians and Bulgarians don’t have visa-free travel, and neither will the Croats. Why would you expect Serbia to be any different?
Good relations with neighbouring states, better education, and a cleaner environment are all good things, but they don’t depend on the EU. These things should be done now regardless of whether Serbia joins the EU.
If you asked the people in Bulgaria, Romania Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania if they want to leave the EU, then perhaps, as you say, a small majority would want to stay in the EU. Change is always a little frightening. However if you asked them if it was wise to join the EU and Euro in the first place, then I am sure a clear majority would say NO! WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT OUR INDEPENDENCE.
pre 11 godina
Alex
Serbian goods are wanted in Africa, the Middle East and Russia. While in the EU many do not meet the restrictive standards and so could not be exported even were Serbia a member. I don’t see any east European country prospering in the EU. Why would Serbia be any different? Indeed one would expect Serbia to be treated worse than NATO members Bulgaria and Romania.
Freedom of movement is a mirage. The Romanians and Bulgarians don’t have it, why would Serbs get it? There is however another freedom of movement that you wont want – the freedom of foreigners to come to Serbia and settle wherever it suits them. How will Croatia stop Third World immigrants who have been given some resident status somewhere in the EU from settling on the Dalmatian coast? They can’t stop this and
I fully expect it to happen. Most commentators who talk about freedom of movement appear to be suggesting that Serbs should be free to leave Serbia and work in the West. Is this what Serbs want, to abandon their homeland and work as third-class citizens in the West. Is this the allure of the EU?
Access to cheaper credit! You got to be joking? While Germany pays 1.85%, Greece pays 29.24%. What rate do you think Serbia will pay?
pre 11 godina
Koko
Freedom of movement
You are deluded if you believe that Serbs will have freedom of movement in the EU. Romanians and Bulgarians still can’t move to every EU country and we will see similar restriction imposed on the Croats. Serbs are the Untermensch of Europe and will not be allowed anywhere.
Freedom of trade
Much of Serbian agriculture and industry does not meet EU standards, which have been designed to restrict competition from cheaper east European countries. Some items (e.g. frozen fruit) are needed by the EU and can be exported without restriction regardless of Serbian membership.
The rest of you commentary is unintelligible, although I would say when it comes to stealing people’s saving and pensions, the EU is pretty good at that, too. If you have any cash in an EU bank, then I recommend you withdraw it before it is confiscated.
pre 11 godina
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU member?
Belgrade gets loans and sells bonds with German interest rates to pay the pensions, police, the Serbs in northern Kosovo, etc etc etc. Like Greece was doing. But its future governments have to be smarter and more responsible than Greek ones, who may have ruined the "free money, fifteen salaries a year party" for all of us others in the Balkans. But this only much much later, once you enter the Euro. You do not even have a date to start talking about it yet.
pre 11 godina
The situation in Cyprus and the double standard imposed upon them by Germany should be a telling that Serbia will not gain entry so easily. For now, the price for "talks" is recognition of Kosovo. For later, one could easily see that Germany and the US will impose further demands down the road. The politicians in Serbia know this but they are unwilling to discuss it in public. Perhaps if the EU bailouts didn't happen, then Serbia may have been dealt a different hand by the EU and could have reconcilled with Kosovo in a different way.The pre-entry monies and access to trade are very enticing, but at a time of austerity and a dominating Germany and US against Serbia,the time is not right for discussion in the EU sphere were they have no friends but a UN sphere where they have a chance.
pre 11 godina
Serbia should grant autonomy to Kosovo for 100 years.
pre 11 godina
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU member?
Simple answer:
inverstments, more rights, access to EU funds, being an effective country in europe, end of isolation, freedom of movement and work opportunities in other EU states, better reputation of serbia in the world for both individuals and businesses, more countries welcome you (many countries grant EU citizens visa-free access), reconciliation with former yugoslav states, stability, higher growth in economy, better education, better enviroment, better future for out kids, end of conflicts, more trade with european countries.... go ask a romanian or a bulgarian if they support the EU i dare any to say no, and both countries' people have higher income than serbians. Check polls in montenegro and macedonia EU-suuporters are not less than 75% of their populations. Maybe countries like iceland, switzerland, norway dont need the EU, simply because they are so rich that the EU will actually take away they resources and make them poorer, but the balkan states are the exact opposite.
pre 11 godina
Rocky, weeding through your comment, I think I understand what you are trying to say. But you are wrong. Parts of Southern Serbia, i.e., Presevo, was never mentioned, to my knowledge, in the Brussels talks. What does Presevo have to do with the situation Northern Kosovo? Is it mainly because Albanians live there? If that is the case, maybe Ms. Ashton should have invited some leadership from Macedonia and from Montenegro, and resolve all the matters in the Balkans where Albanians have issues? Belgrade is seeking to protect its citizens in the North of KiM, as much as they can, obviously the poor Serbs in the enclaves are on their own, and will soon be cleansed from their homes. You care about the welfare of Albanians, don't you believe that the Serbs should have that same privilege, and care for their own?
(winston, 4 April 2013 14:17)
You catch on quick Winston! It is only a few ways for this issue to be resolved! Option-1, Serbia gets what she wants "guarantees for her Serbs in northern Kosova" and Kosova gets what she wants "guarantees for her Albanians in southern Serbia" Option-2, An exchange between the 2 territory's! Or Option-3! If the 2 previous options fail! It's quite simple
As for resolving any issues with Macedonia & Montenegro? If they come up in the future, then we can sit down and try and resolve them as well, in due course! At the moment, they are pretty much contained!
pre 11 godina
Rocky, weeding through your comment, I think I understand what you are trying to say. But you are wrong. Parts of Southern Serbia, i.e., Presevo, was never mentioned, to my knowledge, in the Brussels talks. What does Presevo have to do with the situation Northern Kosovo? Is it mainly because Albanians live there? If that is the case, maybe Ms. Ashton should have invited some leadership from Macedonia and from Montenegro, and resolve all the matters in the Balkans where Albanians have issues? Belgrade is seeking to protect its citizens in the North of KiM, as much as they can, obviously the poor Serbs in the enclaves are on their own, and will soon be cleansed from their homes. You care about the welfare of Albanians, don't you believe that the Serbs should have that same privilege, and care for their own?
pre 11 godina
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU membership?
(Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 13:20)
1. Serbia’s goods (which are generally good quality comparing to the price) to reach the vast EU markets. Serbia is another Germany when it comes to production of goods. It produces ranges of things; from heavy weapons, cars to pencils. Manufacturing in Serbia is the best comparing to the prices in the region wider than Balkans and it will improve more if in the EU.
2. Freedom of movement for businesses and people.
3. Access to cheaper credits.
What Serbia has to lose? Kosovo… but we lost the province long time ago…
pre 11 godina
Albanians keep equating the status of Serbs in Kosovo with the status of Albanians in Serbia proper. That is like equating the status of Turks in Kurdish entity with the status of Kurds in Turkey proper. Turkey is an internationally recognised country and a member of all international bodies, and hence subject to international rules when it comes to her law and order. Kurdish entity is not, so nothing can be legally guaranteed nor enforced by the international bodies. The same with Kosovo.
pre 11 godina
Daniel said :"Regognition will never happen as a serbian citizen I can assure you that".
I too newer believed in the 90-s to go to Kosova and not to find a serbian policeman at Prishtina airport ;)
But this happens and i have a stamp in my passport : "REPUBLIKA E KOSOVES"
pre 11 godina
DEMI....Serbia stuck also means Kosovo stuck...Europe stuck...development stuck for ALL..
(Vladimir, 4 April 2013 13:36)
Haha, Vladimir. "Serbia is stuck" means "Serbia is stuck". It is so refreshing to see how you portray Serbia with her 40bn economy (compared to EU: 10 000bn) as the center of the world.
pre 11 godina
(Daniel, 4 April 2013 13:21)
Serbia cannot solve the issue without recognizing Kosova. It's impossible since Prishtina will not accept less than an recognition from Belgrade.
Serbia cannot solve the issue without Kosova.
pre 11 godina
This was defiantly a failure for Serbia! Kosova, has all the time on the world, actually for Kosova its a definite +! She has more time to get more recognitions, from countries that have been waiting to see the outcome of the dialog! It should be much easier to secure recognitions from these county's, they will clearly see that Serbia is to blame for the dialogs failure!!!
As for the Serbs in the north of Kosova getting autonomy & their own police and judiciary, if Serbia is willing to grant the same rights to the Albanian majority of "Presevo & Bujonovac" then it is possible to come to an mutually accepted agreement! This also goes for the military presence, Serbia will have to withdraw all military bases, & presence in "Presevo & Bujonovac" In turn, Northern Kosova will not have a Kosovar military presence! Serbia cannot just ask for, she must also give! It is better to come to an agreement with each other, rather then going to war with each other, wouldn't you agree?
pre 11 godina
DEMI....Serbia stuck also means Kosovo stuck...Europe stuck...development stuck for ALL..
pre 11 godina
Why not Demi? Why should Serbia recognise Kosovo before joining EU if existing members have not recognised it? EU can only demand from Serbia to accept common EU policy towards Kosovo, and recognition is certainly not in that policy. And it will not be until all members recognise it, which effectively means never. Kosovo and their supporters simply have to learn to live with that fact.
pre 11 godina
If Serbia is not ready for such an solution then we could not solve anything. Do not expect do be an EU member without recognizing Kosova as independent.
(Demi, 4 April 2013 12:49)
5 eu members dont recognize Kosovo and you think that Serbia will?The eu demands Serbia to solve the issue and not to recognize Kosovo independent, that will never happen as a serbian citizen I can assure you that.
pre 11 godina
I have been on this site many times and have asked the same question, but none of the EU-supporters think this question is worth answering.
Nevertheless, here it is again:
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU membership?
pre 11 godina
"Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU membership?
(Michael Thomas"
Freedom of movement. Freedom of trade. Freedom to go live in a less violent country, just as all the Serb and Kosovar expats have done.
Freedom not to pay their savings to wounded grown children aka communists and nationalists.
Give up your foreign passport, and go live in Serbia, maybe than you can tell people of not get what you got.
Why dont you do that?
pre 11 godina
The only way to solve the " Kosova issue" is for Serbia to recognize Kosova. Just like the majority of EU member country's do.
If Serbia is not ready for such an solution then we could not solve anything. Do not expect do be an EU member without recognizing Kosova as independent.
pre 11 godina
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU membership?
(Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 13:20)
1. Serbia’s goods (which are generally good quality comparing to the price) to reach the vast EU markets. Serbia is another Germany when it comes to production of goods. It produces ranges of things; from heavy weapons, cars to pencils. Manufacturing in Serbia is the best comparing to the prices in the region wider than Balkans and it will improve more if in the EU.
2. Freedom of movement for businesses and people.
3. Access to cheaper credits.
What Serbia has to lose? Kosovo… but we lost the province long time ago…
pre 11 godina
The only way to solve the " Kosova issue" is for Serbia to recognize Kosova. Just like the majority of EU member country's do.
If Serbia is not ready for such an solution then we could not solve anything. Do not expect do be an EU member without recognizing Kosova as independent.
pre 11 godina
This was defiantly a failure for Serbia! Kosova, has all the time on the world, actually for Kosova its a definite +! She has more time to get more recognitions, from countries that have been waiting to see the outcome of the dialog! It should be much easier to secure recognitions from these county's, they will clearly see that Serbia is to blame for the dialogs failure!!!
As for the Serbs in the north of Kosova getting autonomy & their own police and judiciary, if Serbia is willing to grant the same rights to the Albanian majority of "Presevo & Bujonovac" then it is possible to come to an mutually accepted agreement! This also goes for the military presence, Serbia will have to withdraw all military bases, & presence in "Presevo & Bujonovac" In turn, Northern Kosova will not have a Kosovar military presence! Serbia cannot just ask for, she must also give! It is better to come to an agreement with each other, rather then going to war with each other, wouldn't you agree?
pre 11 godina
Daniel said :"Regognition will never happen as a serbian citizen I can assure you that".
I too newer believed in the 90-s to go to Kosova and not to find a serbian policeman at Prishtina airport ;)
But this happens and i have a stamp in my passport : "REPUBLIKA E KOSOVES"
pre 11 godina
Rocky, weeding through your comment, I think I understand what you are trying to say. But you are wrong. Parts of Southern Serbia, i.e., Presevo, was never mentioned, to my knowledge, in the Brussels talks. What does Presevo have to do with the situation Northern Kosovo? Is it mainly because Albanians live there? If that is the case, maybe Ms. Ashton should have invited some leadership from Macedonia and from Montenegro, and resolve all the matters in the Balkans where Albanians have issues? Belgrade is seeking to protect its citizens in the North of KiM, as much as they can, obviously the poor Serbs in the enclaves are on their own, and will soon be cleansed from their homes. You care about the welfare of Albanians, don't you believe that the Serbs should have that same privilege, and care for their own?
pre 11 godina
If Serbia is not ready for such an solution then we could not solve anything. Do not expect do be an EU member without recognizing Kosova as independent.
(Demi, 4 April 2013 12:49)
5 eu members dont recognize Kosovo and you think that Serbia will?The eu demands Serbia to solve the issue and not to recognize Kosovo independent, that will never happen as a serbian citizen I can assure you that.
pre 11 godina
"Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU membership?
(Michael Thomas"
Freedom of movement. Freedom of trade. Freedom to go live in a less violent country, just as all the Serb and Kosovar expats have done.
Freedom not to pay their savings to wounded grown children aka communists and nationalists.
Give up your foreign passport, and go live in Serbia, maybe than you can tell people of not get what you got.
Why dont you do that?
pre 11 godina
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU member?
Simple answer:
inverstments, more rights, access to EU funds, being an effective country in europe, end of isolation, freedom of movement and work opportunities in other EU states, better reputation of serbia in the world for both individuals and businesses, more countries welcome you (many countries grant EU citizens visa-free access), reconciliation with former yugoslav states, stability, higher growth in economy, better education, better enviroment, better future for out kids, end of conflicts, more trade with european countries.... go ask a romanian or a bulgarian if they support the EU i dare any to say no, and both countries' people have higher income than serbians. Check polls in montenegro and macedonia EU-suuporters are not less than 75% of their populations. Maybe countries like iceland, switzerland, norway dont need the EU, simply because they are so rich that the EU will actually take away they resources and make them poorer, but the balkan states are the exact opposite.
pre 11 godina
DEMI....Serbia stuck also means Kosovo stuck...Europe stuck...development stuck for ALL..
pre 11 godina
Albanians keep equating the status of Serbs in Kosovo with the status of Albanians in Serbia proper. That is like equating the status of Turks in Kurdish entity with the status of Kurds in Turkey proper. Turkey is an internationally recognised country and a member of all international bodies, and hence subject to international rules when it comes to her law and order. Kurdish entity is not, so nothing can be legally guaranteed nor enforced by the international bodies. The same with Kosovo.
pre 11 godina
DEMI....Serbia stuck also means Kosovo stuck...Europe stuck...development stuck for ALL..
(Vladimir, 4 April 2013 13:36)
Haha, Vladimir. "Serbia is stuck" means "Serbia is stuck". It is so refreshing to see how you portray Serbia with her 40bn economy (compared to EU: 10 000bn) as the center of the world.
pre 11 godina
The situation in Cyprus and the double standard imposed upon them by Germany should be a telling that Serbia will not gain entry so easily. For now, the price for "talks" is recognition of Kosovo. For later, one could easily see that Germany and the US will impose further demands down the road. The politicians in Serbia know this but they are unwilling to discuss it in public. Perhaps if the EU bailouts didn't happen, then Serbia may have been dealt a different hand by the EU and could have reconcilled with Kosovo in a different way.The pre-entry monies and access to trade are very enticing, but at a time of austerity and a dominating Germany and US against Serbia,the time is not right for discussion in the EU sphere were they have no friends but a UN sphere where they have a chance.
pre 11 godina
I have been on this site many times and have asked the same question, but none of the EU-supporters think this question is worth answering.
Nevertheless, here it is again:
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU membership?
pre 11 godina
Why not Demi? Why should Serbia recognise Kosovo before joining EU if existing members have not recognised it? EU can only demand from Serbia to accept common EU policy towards Kosovo, and recognition is certainly not in that policy. And it will not be until all members recognise it, which effectively means never. Kosovo and their supporters simply have to learn to live with that fact.
pre 11 godina
(Daniel, 4 April 2013 13:21)
Serbia cannot solve the issue without recognizing Kosova. It's impossible since Prishtina will not accept less than an recognition from Belgrade.
Serbia cannot solve the issue without Kosova.
pre 11 godina
Rocky, weeding through your comment, I think I understand what you are trying to say. But you are wrong. Parts of Southern Serbia, i.e., Presevo, was never mentioned, to my knowledge, in the Brussels talks. What does Presevo have to do with the situation Northern Kosovo? Is it mainly because Albanians live there? If that is the case, maybe Ms. Ashton should have invited some leadership from Macedonia and from Montenegro, and resolve all the matters in the Balkans where Albanians have issues? Belgrade is seeking to protect its citizens in the North of KiM, as much as they can, obviously the poor Serbs in the enclaves are on their own, and will soon be cleansed from their homes. You care about the welfare of Albanians, don't you believe that the Serbs should have that same privilege, and care for their own?
(winston, 4 April 2013 14:17)
You catch on quick Winston! It is only a few ways for this issue to be resolved! Option-1, Serbia gets what she wants "guarantees for her Serbs in northern Kosova" and Kosova gets what she wants "guarantees for her Albanians in southern Serbia" Option-2, An exchange between the 2 territory's! Or Option-3! If the 2 previous options fail! It's quite simple
As for resolving any issues with Macedonia & Montenegro? If they come up in the future, then we can sit down and try and resolve them as well, in due course! At the moment, they are pretty much contained!
pre 11 godina
Koko
Freedom of movement
You are deluded if you believe that Serbs will have freedom of movement in the EU. Romanians and Bulgarians still can’t move to every EU country and we will see similar restriction imposed on the Croats. Serbs are the Untermensch of Europe and will not be allowed anywhere.
Freedom of trade
Much of Serbian agriculture and industry does not meet EU standards, which have been designed to restrict competition from cheaper east European countries. Some items (e.g. frozen fruit) are needed by the EU and can be exported without restriction regardless of Serbian membership.
The rest of you commentary is unintelligible, although I would say when it comes to stealing people’s saving and pensions, the EU is pretty good at that, too. If you have any cash in an EU bank, then I recommend you withdraw it before it is confiscated.
pre 11 godina
Alex
Serbian goods are wanted in Africa, the Middle East and Russia. While in the EU many do not meet the restrictive standards and so could not be exported even were Serbia a member. I don’t see any east European country prospering in the EU. Why would Serbia be any different? Indeed one would expect Serbia to be treated worse than NATO members Bulgaria and Romania.
Freedom of movement is a mirage. The Romanians and Bulgarians don’t have it, why would Serbs get it? There is however another freedom of movement that you wont want – the freedom of foreigners to come to Serbia and settle wherever it suits them. How will Croatia stop Third World immigrants who have been given some resident status somewhere in the EU from settling on the Dalmatian coast? They can’t stop this and
I fully expect it to happen. Most commentators who talk about freedom of movement appear to be suggesting that Serbs should be free to leave Serbia and work in the West. Is this what Serbs want, to abandon their homeland and work as third-class citizens in the West. Is this the allure of the EU?
Access to cheaper credit! You got to be joking? While Germany pays 1.85%, Greece pays 29.24%. What rate do you think Serbia will pay?
pre 11 godina
Darko
The things you mention are not on the EU’s agenda. Serbs are Cyrillic-using, Orthodox Slavs, just like the Russians. As the EU hates Russia it hates Serbia, too.
Investment in Serbia will be determined by private businesses, not the EU. Serbia is in a good location in the centre of Europe and is attractive to Asian investors. But of course foreign investment will only ever be a small part of total investment. Most jobs in Serbia will be with Serbia businesses, and that will have very little to do with the EU.
The Romanians and Bulgarians don’t have visa-free travel, and neither will the Croats. Why would you expect Serbia to be any different?
Good relations with neighbouring states, better education, and a cleaner environment are all good things, but they don’t depend on the EU. These things should be done now regardless of whether Serbia joins the EU.
If you asked the people in Bulgaria, Romania Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania if they want to leave the EU, then perhaps, as you say, a small majority would want to stay in the EU. Change is always a little frightening. However if you asked them if it was wise to join the EU and Euro in the first place, then I am sure a clear majority would say NO! WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT OUR INDEPENDENCE.
pre 11 godina
You really do live in some parallel universe, Michel.
Romanians, Bulgarians, Croats and Serbs for that matter have visa-free travel within the EU. This year restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians working were lifted in most EU countries.
I've never met a Romanian or Bulgarian that thinks joining the EU was a mistake. Mind you, my sample isn't huge. Same with Baltic states. When I visited Estonia, for example, people seemed pretty keen about the EU. I think they voted 87% or something. Basically everyone but their Russian minority.
pre 11 godina
Serbia should grant autonomy to Kosovo for 100 years.
pre 11 godina
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU member?
Belgrade gets loans and sells bonds with German interest rates to pay the pensions, police, the Serbs in northern Kosovo, etc etc etc. Like Greece was doing. But its future governments have to be smarter and more responsible than Greek ones, who may have ruined the "free money, fifteen salaries a year party" for all of us others in the Balkans. But this only much much later, once you enter the Euro. You do not even have a date to start talking about it yet.
pre 11 godina
Bob said :"Serbia should grant autonomy to Kosovo for 100 years"
Kosovo had it's autonomy under Tito's regime (and honestly at those times the life conditions of Kosovars were much better compared to the albanians living in the communist Albania.
Has no sense talking about "autonomy": after the Kosovo Polje speech!
Why kosovars should beleieve to the "good intentions" of Belgrade after being killed,raped,burned and driven out from Kosova in the 99?
Autonomy can be good for Vojvodine but for Kosova is too late to talk about.
pre 11 godina
"Belgrade gets loans and sells bonds with German interest rates to pay the pensions, police, the Serbs in northern Kosovo, etc etc etc."
(Reader, 4 April 2013 17:27)
Does the Serbian govt pay pensions, police, etc in Euros or Dinars? Why does the Serbian govt need to borrow from German banks? The German banks are all technically bankrupt, so how come they can lend money to Serbia?
The magic is that banks are allowed to create loans out of nothing. Why doesn't the Serbian govt create Dinars debt-free to pay pensions and its other expenses.
Will this cause inflation? It wouldn't cause any more inflation if the Serbian govt created Dinars than if private banks create Euros.
pre 11 godina
Micheal
You sound very much like right wing politicians in Norway, Holland and particularly in Britain.
We must aspire to do better. There is a chance we must not miss it with the EU. Yes Europe is having its difficulties but we must try and overcome the difficulties not leave it and ignore it.
There are countries in the East who have prospered look at Poland. An economic power today. Look at Hungary, Check republic, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia etc.
These countries in the South; Italy,Portugal, Greece, Cypress have no-one but their own government to blame for borrowing much more than they could pay. The crises in Spain and Ireland are different; we should not mix them here.
When it comes to Serbia’s goods I believe it has a better chance within the EU. Just like Poland and Germany, Serbia has a much more balanced economy; with a range of products at high quality manufacturing at cheaper rates. I believe that Serbia’s products are sellable in the EU as well as to the other countries that you suggest; Russia, Africa Asia.
As for you, you sound like a right wing politicians in either; Holland, Norway or Britain. Yet Norway, Holland and Britain all three have as a head of state a monarch. I believe in meritocracy.
In the EU we have hopes! What do you offer? A monarch! Something that is more fitting in the middle ages. Thank you, I rather go with the EU and hope for a better tomorrow.
pre 11 godina
you're the one that said Bulgarians and Romanians don't have visa-free travel. I was addressing that.
It's good for people to leave and come back to their contries. Poland is a good example. Lots of people left, many returned. Mixing and mingling in life's rich pageantry is a good thing - better than various isolated bubbles.
pre 11 godina
Alex
Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are as ruined as Greece, Cyprus and Spain. Young people are leaving the Baltic states in droves. You are wrong about Poles; millions of young Poles have left their homeland and few return. They make new lives for themselves and their families in foreign countries. This is what the EU offers Serbia. You will be offered the chance to travel to Germany to do menial tasks. Wow! That has got to be worth giving away Kosovo with its wealth of history and trillions of euros of metals and minerals.
If I remind you of a right-wing politician, then you remind me of those pathetic DOS students who, for a few dollars, sold their nation to NATO.
pre 11 godina
Danilo said, "Mixing and mingling in life's rich pageantry is a good thing - better than various isolated bubbles."
Rich pageantry? One only needs to read your comments here to appreciate the hypocrisy. You move to Serbia-(I doubt you do a lot of mingling)- and then express(endlessly)your general disdain for all things Serbian.
pre 11 godina
"a New Day"
If you want to understand the world and how it works, then you must take some time to study Money & Credit and who controls them.
"Money" is the coins and bank notes you have in your wallet. I have about £15 in "Money" on me at the moment. I also have a bank account, credit cards, and a mortgage (house loan). These bank-created funds are called "Credit" and amount to hundreds of thousands of pounds.
So here is a statement of my finances:
Money = £15
Credit = £500,000
The £15 "Money" was created by the government - it printed the bank notes and stamped the coins but it did not borrow this "Money" so no interest is payable.
The £500,000 "Credit" was created by private banks. These private banks did not have "Money" in their accounts when they offered this "Credit" they merely used banking tricks to create "Credit" out of thin air and they charge interest for this "Credit."
The global elite control "Credit" and have run the world for hundreds of years using this trick.
To study Money & Credit is a revolutionary act. Knowing how the "Credit" system works and who benefits from it is the first step to liberation.
pre 11 godina
Danilo
Serbs don't have visa-free travel to the UK and Bulgarians and Romanians, despite being in the EU for 6 years, still cannot work in the UK.
Anyway, why all the focus on freedom of movement? Surely the EU exists to help countries develop so that their populations are happy to stay where they are?
Clearly the east European and Southern European EU members are not top priority for the EU's Germanic master race. Romanians and Bulgarians are nothing more than Gastarbeiter doing the jobs that the "advanced" western Europeans believe are beneath them.
The EU is nothing more than a scam designed to rob and enslave all Europeans.
pre 11 godina
Seems Germans aren't happy with welcoming their new EU neighbors.
German Interior Minister: 'We'll Veto Schengen for Romania and Bulgaria'
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/interior-minister-friedrich-says-no-schengen-for-bulgaria-and-romania-a-886704.html
"Social worker Rolf Karling remarked, Those idiots in Brussels had absolutely no idea what they were doing," he said. They wanted Romania and Bulgaria to be part of the EU because they were scared Russia might get its claws into them – but they never thought it through. Now we are faced with this. And it's going to get worse – two, three, four million will come. You open the floodgates from a very poor country to very rich ones. Wouldn't you move?"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9919552/Romanian-and-Bulgarian-migration-into-Germany-They-come-to-look-for-a-better-life.-But-someone-must-pay-for-that.html
"The homeless population in Germany has grown sharply in recent years, partly because of a growing influx of destitute Romanians, Bulgarians and other Eastern Europeans. Since their native countries joined the European Union in 2007, Bulgarians and Romanians have been able to enter Germany without visas or residence permits."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-cities-struggle-to-accommodate-rise-in-homeless-a-885484.html
pre 11 godina
"Serbian goods are wanted in Africa, the Middle East and Russia."
(Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 17:10)
- Serbia, Africa, the Middle East and Russia. Wow! You have quite a winning team there Mr.Thomasevic. Good luck when you join that league of nations.
However if you asked them if it was wise to join the EU and Euro in the first place, then I am sure a clear majority would say NO! WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT OUR INDEPENDENCE.
(Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 17:11)
- I know you're sitting comfortable somewhere in Canada or Australia while promoting "your" independence. How about you let the locals decide if you actually care about them?
Serbia should grant autonomy to Kosovo for 100 years.
(Bob, 4 April 2013 15:33)
- Bob, thank you for your contribution :)
Albanians keep equating the status of Serbs in Kosovo with the status of Albanians in Serbia proper. That is like equating the status of Turks in Kurdish entity with the status of Kurds in Turkey proper. Turkey is an internationally recognised country and a member of all international bodies, and hence subject to international rules when it comes to her law and order. Kurdish entity is not, so nothing can be legally guaranteed nor enforced by the international bodies. The same with Kosovo.
(Teslavio, 4 April 2013 14:36)
- You call that an argument? Come on, I know you can do better
pre 11 godina
Yes Michael print money, we all saw how well that went for Serbia in the nineties. Granted, it seems that was orchestrated by Milosevic to rob the Serbs of all their deutchmarks and other worthy cash and send it to banks in Cyprus, still it was really fun to see it happening. Print trillions of dinars for all we care. I would go back to getting a Serbian passport just to vote for you as president of Serbia if you run for office. Here is one Albanian Serbia would gain back in its books if you do that. Truly.
pre 11 godina
“Serbia cannot be without the EU. Only Norway and Switzerland are outside the system but they are full of oil and money. We have neither oil nor money. Look at Serbia. We do not have a potential to attract great European powers to invest here so we could develop,” Pribićević pointed out.
Yep, maybe this helps to stop the silly comparison between Serbia and Switzerland/Norway which indeed do fine outside EU (though their economy is tightly coupled, and they are members of the Schengen Treaty)
pre 11 godina
Serbia cannot solve the issue without recognizing Kosova. It's impossible since Prishtina will not accept less than an recognition from Belgrade.
Serbia cannot solve the issue without Kosova.
(Demi, 4 April 2013 13:58)
Who cares about what Pristina says, recognition is not a condition from EU but to solve the issue with the institutions in the north. I wipe my ass with Pristinas opinion on anything.
pre 11 godina
if Serbia is willing to grant the same rights to the Albanian majority of "Presevo & Bujonovac"
Actually in BujanoVac there is a huge serb majority and in Presevo its 50/50 and last but not least Serbia is a country, Kosovo isn´t. No Un seat remember?
pre 11 godina
BOB........ if anyone deserves a penny, it would be you! believe me.
pre 11 godina
Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 19:11
One question, please do you have an accountant that handles your financial transactions? If not your family and heirs if there are any have my sympathies.
pre 11 godina
So Pešič is saying that Serbia is showing that it is determined to solve the Kosovo issue but in fact Serbia is the one who is not agreeing to solve the problem.
It is a very well known fact that Serbia lost Kosovo in the war of 1999 and therefore Serbia should stop wasting time and money trying to get her hands involved in Kosovo.
Serbia has forgotten about the serbs living in South of Ibar river and it should also forget about the serbs north of Ibar river. Are the lives of serbs living in north of Ibar more important than the lives of those living in south? No, they are the same.
The more Serbia wants to be involved in Kosovo the more people's money will be wasted.
pre 11 godina
The only way to solve the " Kosova issue" is for Serbia to recognize Kosova. Just like the majority of EU member country's do.
If Serbia is not ready for such an solution then we could not solve anything. Do not expect do be an EU member without recognizing Kosova as independent.
pre 11 godina
This was defiantly a failure for Serbia! Kosova, has all the time on the world, actually for Kosova its a definite +! She has more time to get more recognitions, from countries that have been waiting to see the outcome of the dialog! It should be much easier to secure recognitions from these county's, they will clearly see that Serbia is to blame for the dialogs failure!!!
As for the Serbs in the north of Kosova getting autonomy & their own police and judiciary, if Serbia is willing to grant the same rights to the Albanian majority of "Presevo & Bujonovac" then it is possible to come to an mutually accepted agreement! This also goes for the military presence, Serbia will have to withdraw all military bases, & presence in "Presevo & Bujonovac" In turn, Northern Kosova will not have a Kosovar military presence! Serbia cannot just ask for, she must also give! It is better to come to an agreement with each other, rather then going to war with each other, wouldn't you agree?
pre 11 godina
I have been on this site many times and have asked the same question, but none of the EU-supporters think this question is worth answering.
Nevertheless, here it is again:
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU membership?
pre 11 godina
If Serbia is not ready for such an solution then we could not solve anything. Do not expect do be an EU member without recognizing Kosova as independent.
(Demi, 4 April 2013 12:49)
5 eu members dont recognize Kosovo and you think that Serbia will?The eu demands Serbia to solve the issue and not to recognize Kosovo independent, that will never happen as a serbian citizen I can assure you that.
pre 11 godina
(Daniel, 4 April 2013 13:21)
Serbia cannot solve the issue without recognizing Kosova. It's impossible since Prishtina will not accept less than an recognition from Belgrade.
Serbia cannot solve the issue without Kosova.
pre 11 godina
DEMI....Serbia stuck also means Kosovo stuck...Europe stuck...development stuck for ALL..
pre 11 godina
Why not Demi? Why should Serbia recognise Kosovo before joining EU if existing members have not recognised it? EU can only demand from Serbia to accept common EU policy towards Kosovo, and recognition is certainly not in that policy. And it will not be until all members recognise it, which effectively means never. Kosovo and their supporters simply have to learn to live with that fact.
pre 11 godina
DEMI....Serbia stuck also means Kosovo stuck...Europe stuck...development stuck for ALL..
(Vladimir, 4 April 2013 13:36)
Haha, Vladimir. "Serbia is stuck" means "Serbia is stuck". It is so refreshing to see how you portray Serbia with her 40bn economy (compared to EU: 10 000bn) as the center of the world.
pre 11 godina
Albanians keep equating the status of Serbs in Kosovo with the status of Albanians in Serbia proper. That is like equating the status of Turks in Kurdish entity with the status of Kurds in Turkey proper. Turkey is an internationally recognised country and a member of all international bodies, and hence subject to international rules when it comes to her law and order. Kurdish entity is not, so nothing can be legally guaranteed nor enforced by the international bodies. The same with Kosovo.
pre 11 godina
Daniel said :"Regognition will never happen as a serbian citizen I can assure you that".
I too newer believed in the 90-s to go to Kosova and not to find a serbian policeman at Prishtina airport ;)
But this happens and i have a stamp in my passport : "REPUBLIKA E KOSOVES"
pre 11 godina
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU membership?
(Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 13:20)
1. Serbia’s goods (which are generally good quality comparing to the price) to reach the vast EU markets. Serbia is another Germany when it comes to production of goods. It produces ranges of things; from heavy weapons, cars to pencils. Manufacturing in Serbia is the best comparing to the prices in the region wider than Balkans and it will improve more if in the EU.
2. Freedom of movement for businesses and people.
3. Access to cheaper credits.
What Serbia has to lose? Kosovo… but we lost the province long time ago…
pre 11 godina
Serbia should grant autonomy to Kosovo for 100 years.
pre 11 godina
Alex
Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are as ruined as Greece, Cyprus and Spain. Young people are leaving the Baltic states in droves. You are wrong about Poles; millions of young Poles have left their homeland and few return. They make new lives for themselves and their families in foreign countries. This is what the EU offers Serbia. You will be offered the chance to travel to Germany to do menial tasks. Wow! That has got to be worth giving away Kosovo with its wealth of history and trillions of euros of metals and minerals.
If I remind you of a right-wing politician, then you remind me of those pathetic DOS students who, for a few dollars, sold their nation to NATO.
pre 11 godina
Rocky, weeding through your comment, I think I understand what you are trying to say. But you are wrong. Parts of Southern Serbia, i.e., Presevo, was never mentioned, to my knowledge, in the Brussels talks. What does Presevo have to do with the situation Northern Kosovo? Is it mainly because Albanians live there? If that is the case, maybe Ms. Ashton should have invited some leadership from Macedonia and from Montenegro, and resolve all the matters in the Balkans where Albanians have issues? Belgrade is seeking to protect its citizens in the North of KiM, as much as they can, obviously the poor Serbs in the enclaves are on their own, and will soon be cleansed from their homes. You care about the welfare of Albanians, don't you believe that the Serbs should have that same privilege, and care for their own?
pre 11 godina
Rocky, weeding through your comment, I think I understand what you are trying to say. But you are wrong. Parts of Southern Serbia, i.e., Presevo, was never mentioned, to my knowledge, in the Brussels talks. What does Presevo have to do with the situation Northern Kosovo? Is it mainly because Albanians live there? If that is the case, maybe Ms. Ashton should have invited some leadership from Macedonia and from Montenegro, and resolve all the matters in the Balkans where Albanians have issues? Belgrade is seeking to protect its citizens in the North of KiM, as much as they can, obviously the poor Serbs in the enclaves are on their own, and will soon be cleansed from their homes. You care about the welfare of Albanians, don't you believe that the Serbs should have that same privilege, and care for their own?
(winston, 4 April 2013 14:17)
You catch on quick Winston! It is only a few ways for this issue to be resolved! Option-1, Serbia gets what she wants "guarantees for her Serbs in northern Kosova" and Kosova gets what she wants "guarantees for her Albanians in southern Serbia" Option-2, An exchange between the 2 territory's! Or Option-3! If the 2 previous options fail! It's quite simple
As for resolving any issues with Macedonia & Montenegro? If they come up in the future, then we can sit down and try and resolve them as well, in due course! At the moment, they are pretty much contained!
pre 11 godina
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU member?
Simple answer:
inverstments, more rights, access to EU funds, being an effective country in europe, end of isolation, freedom of movement and work opportunities in other EU states, better reputation of serbia in the world for both individuals and businesses, more countries welcome you (many countries grant EU citizens visa-free access), reconciliation with former yugoslav states, stability, higher growth in economy, better education, better enviroment, better future for out kids, end of conflicts, more trade with european countries.... go ask a romanian or a bulgarian if they support the EU i dare any to say no, and both countries' people have higher income than serbians. Check polls in montenegro and macedonia EU-suuporters are not less than 75% of their populations. Maybe countries like iceland, switzerland, norway dont need the EU, simply because they are so rich that the EU will actually take away they resources and make them poorer, but the balkan states are the exact opposite.
pre 11 godina
Bob said :"Serbia should grant autonomy to Kosovo for 100 years"
Kosovo had it's autonomy under Tito's regime (and honestly at those times the life conditions of Kosovars were much better compared to the albanians living in the communist Albania.
Has no sense talking about "autonomy": after the Kosovo Polje speech!
Why kosovars should beleieve to the "good intentions" of Belgrade after being killed,raped,burned and driven out from Kosova in the 99?
Autonomy can be good for Vojvodine but for Kosova is too late to talk about.
pre 11 godina
Alex
Serbian goods are wanted in Africa, the Middle East and Russia. While in the EU many do not meet the restrictive standards and so could not be exported even were Serbia a member. I don’t see any east European country prospering in the EU. Why would Serbia be any different? Indeed one would expect Serbia to be treated worse than NATO members Bulgaria and Romania.
Freedom of movement is a mirage. The Romanians and Bulgarians don’t have it, why would Serbs get it? There is however another freedom of movement that you wont want – the freedom of foreigners to come to Serbia and settle wherever it suits them. How will Croatia stop Third World immigrants who have been given some resident status somewhere in the EU from settling on the Dalmatian coast? They can’t stop this and
I fully expect it to happen. Most commentators who talk about freedom of movement appear to be suggesting that Serbs should be free to leave Serbia and work in the West. Is this what Serbs want, to abandon their homeland and work as third-class citizens in the West. Is this the allure of the EU?
Access to cheaper credit! You got to be joking? While Germany pays 1.85%, Greece pays 29.24%. What rate do you think Serbia will pay?
pre 11 godina
Koko
Freedom of movement
You are deluded if you believe that Serbs will have freedom of movement in the EU. Romanians and Bulgarians still can’t move to every EU country and we will see similar restriction imposed on the Croats. Serbs are the Untermensch of Europe and will not be allowed anywhere.
Freedom of trade
Much of Serbian agriculture and industry does not meet EU standards, which have been designed to restrict competition from cheaper east European countries. Some items (e.g. frozen fruit) are needed by the EU and can be exported without restriction regardless of Serbian membership.
The rest of you commentary is unintelligible, although I would say when it comes to stealing people’s saving and pensions, the EU is pretty good at that, too. If you have any cash in an EU bank, then I recommend you withdraw it before it is confiscated.
pre 11 godina
Darko
The things you mention are not on the EU’s agenda. Serbs are Cyrillic-using, Orthodox Slavs, just like the Russians. As the EU hates Russia it hates Serbia, too.
Investment in Serbia will be determined by private businesses, not the EU. Serbia is in a good location in the centre of Europe and is attractive to Asian investors. But of course foreign investment will only ever be a small part of total investment. Most jobs in Serbia will be with Serbia businesses, and that will have very little to do with the EU.
The Romanians and Bulgarians don’t have visa-free travel, and neither will the Croats. Why would you expect Serbia to be any different?
Good relations with neighbouring states, better education, and a cleaner environment are all good things, but they don’t depend on the EU. These things should be done now regardless of whether Serbia joins the EU.
If you asked the people in Bulgaria, Romania Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania if they want to leave the EU, then perhaps, as you say, a small majority would want to stay in the EU. Change is always a little frightening. However if you asked them if it was wise to join the EU and Euro in the first place, then I am sure a clear majority would say NO! WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT OUR INDEPENDENCE.
pre 11 godina
Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU member?
Belgrade gets loans and sells bonds with German interest rates to pay the pensions, police, the Serbs in northern Kosovo, etc etc etc. Like Greece was doing. But its future governments have to be smarter and more responsible than Greek ones, who may have ruined the "free money, fifteen salaries a year party" for all of us others in the Balkans. But this only much much later, once you enter the Euro. You do not even have a date to start talking about it yet.
pre 11 godina
"Belgrade gets loans and sells bonds with German interest rates to pay the pensions, police, the Serbs in northern Kosovo, etc etc etc."
(Reader, 4 April 2013 17:27)
Does the Serbian govt pay pensions, police, etc in Euros or Dinars? Why does the Serbian govt need to borrow from German banks? The German banks are all technically bankrupt, so how come they can lend money to Serbia?
The magic is that banks are allowed to create loans out of nothing. Why doesn't the Serbian govt create Dinars debt-free to pay pensions and its other expenses.
Will this cause inflation? It wouldn't cause any more inflation if the Serbian govt created Dinars than if private banks create Euros.
pre 11 godina
"Q. Will one of the EU-supporters on this site please advise what concrete benefits Serbia can expect to achieve through EU membership?
(Michael Thomas"
Freedom of movement. Freedom of trade. Freedom to go live in a less violent country, just as all the Serb and Kosovar expats have done.
Freedom not to pay their savings to wounded grown children aka communists and nationalists.
Give up your foreign passport, and go live in Serbia, maybe than you can tell people of not get what you got.
Why dont you do that?
pre 11 godina
The situation in Cyprus and the double standard imposed upon them by Germany should be a telling that Serbia will not gain entry so easily. For now, the price for "talks" is recognition of Kosovo. For later, one could easily see that Germany and the US will impose further demands down the road. The politicians in Serbia know this but they are unwilling to discuss it in public. Perhaps if the EU bailouts didn't happen, then Serbia may have been dealt a different hand by the EU and could have reconcilled with Kosovo in a different way.The pre-entry monies and access to trade are very enticing, but at a time of austerity and a dominating Germany and US against Serbia,the time is not right for discussion in the EU sphere were they have no friends but a UN sphere where they have a chance.
pre 11 godina
You really do live in some parallel universe, Michel.
Romanians, Bulgarians, Croats and Serbs for that matter have visa-free travel within the EU. This year restrictions on Bulgarians and Romanians working were lifted in most EU countries.
I've never met a Romanian or Bulgarian that thinks joining the EU was a mistake. Mind you, my sample isn't huge. Same with Baltic states. When I visited Estonia, for example, people seemed pretty keen about the EU. I think they voted 87% or something. Basically everyone but their Russian minority.
pre 11 godina
Danilo
Serbs don't have visa-free travel to the UK and Bulgarians and Romanians, despite being in the EU for 6 years, still cannot work in the UK.
Anyway, why all the focus on freedom of movement? Surely the EU exists to help countries develop so that their populations are happy to stay where they are?
Clearly the east European and Southern European EU members are not top priority for the EU's Germanic master race. Romanians and Bulgarians are nothing more than Gastarbeiter doing the jobs that the "advanced" western Europeans believe are beneath them.
The EU is nothing more than a scam designed to rob and enslave all Europeans.
pre 11 godina
you're the one that said Bulgarians and Romanians don't have visa-free travel. I was addressing that.
It's good for people to leave and come back to their contries. Poland is a good example. Lots of people left, many returned. Mixing and mingling in life's rich pageantry is a good thing - better than various isolated bubbles.
pre 11 godina
"a New Day"
If you want to understand the world and how it works, then you must take some time to study Money & Credit and who controls them.
"Money" is the coins and bank notes you have in your wallet. I have about £15 in "Money" on me at the moment. I also have a bank account, credit cards, and a mortgage (house loan). These bank-created funds are called "Credit" and amount to hundreds of thousands of pounds.
So here is a statement of my finances:
Money = £15
Credit = £500,000
The £15 "Money" was created by the government - it printed the bank notes and stamped the coins but it did not borrow this "Money" so no interest is payable.
The £500,000 "Credit" was created by private banks. These private banks did not have "Money" in their accounts when they offered this "Credit" they merely used banking tricks to create "Credit" out of thin air and they charge interest for this "Credit."
The global elite control "Credit" and have run the world for hundreds of years using this trick.
To study Money & Credit is a revolutionary act. Knowing how the "Credit" system works and who benefits from it is the first step to liberation.
pre 11 godina
Micheal
You sound very much like right wing politicians in Norway, Holland and particularly in Britain.
We must aspire to do better. There is a chance we must not miss it with the EU. Yes Europe is having its difficulties but we must try and overcome the difficulties not leave it and ignore it.
There are countries in the East who have prospered look at Poland. An economic power today. Look at Hungary, Check republic, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia etc.
These countries in the South; Italy,Portugal, Greece, Cypress have no-one but their own government to blame for borrowing much more than they could pay. The crises in Spain and Ireland are different; we should not mix them here.
When it comes to Serbia’s goods I believe it has a better chance within the EU. Just like Poland and Germany, Serbia has a much more balanced economy; with a range of products at high quality manufacturing at cheaper rates. I believe that Serbia’s products are sellable in the EU as well as to the other countries that you suggest; Russia, Africa Asia.
As for you, you sound like a right wing politicians in either; Holland, Norway or Britain. Yet Norway, Holland and Britain all three have as a head of state a monarch. I believe in meritocracy.
In the EU we have hopes! What do you offer? A monarch! Something that is more fitting in the middle ages. Thank you, I rather go with the EU and hope for a better tomorrow.
pre 11 godina
Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 19:11
One question, please do you have an accountant that handles your financial transactions? If not your family and heirs if there are any have my sympathies.
pre 11 godina
"Serbian goods are wanted in Africa, the Middle East and Russia."
(Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 17:10)
- Serbia, Africa, the Middle East and Russia. Wow! You have quite a winning team there Mr.Thomasevic. Good luck when you join that league of nations.
However if you asked them if it was wise to join the EU and Euro in the first place, then I am sure a clear majority would say NO! WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT OUR INDEPENDENCE.
(Michael Thomas, 4 April 2013 17:11)
- I know you're sitting comfortable somewhere in Canada or Australia while promoting "your" independence. How about you let the locals decide if you actually care about them?
Serbia should grant autonomy to Kosovo for 100 years.
(Bob, 4 April 2013 15:33)
- Bob, thank you for your contribution :)
Albanians keep equating the status of Serbs in Kosovo with the status of Albanians in Serbia proper. That is like equating the status of Turks in Kurdish entity with the status of Kurds in Turkey proper. Turkey is an internationally recognised country and a member of all international bodies, and hence subject to international rules when it comes to her law and order. Kurdish entity is not, so nothing can be legally guaranteed nor enforced by the international bodies. The same with Kosovo.
(Teslavio, 4 April 2013 14:36)
- You call that an argument? Come on, I know you can do better
pre 11 godina
So Pešič is saying that Serbia is showing that it is determined to solve the Kosovo issue but in fact Serbia is the one who is not agreeing to solve the problem.
It is a very well known fact that Serbia lost Kosovo in the war of 1999 and therefore Serbia should stop wasting time and money trying to get her hands involved in Kosovo.
Serbia has forgotten about the serbs living in South of Ibar river and it should also forget about the serbs north of Ibar river. Are the lives of serbs living in north of Ibar more important than the lives of those living in south? No, they are the same.
The more Serbia wants to be involved in Kosovo the more people's money will be wasted.
pre 11 godina
BOB........ if anyone deserves a penny, it would be you! believe me.
pre 11 godina
Seems Germans aren't happy with welcoming their new EU neighbors.
German Interior Minister: 'We'll Veto Schengen for Romania and Bulgaria'
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/interior-minister-friedrich-says-no-schengen-for-bulgaria-and-romania-a-886704.html
"Social worker Rolf Karling remarked, Those idiots in Brussels had absolutely no idea what they were doing," he said. They wanted Romania and Bulgaria to be part of the EU because they were scared Russia might get its claws into them – but they never thought it through. Now we are faced with this. And it's going to get worse – two, three, four million will come. You open the floodgates from a very poor country to very rich ones. Wouldn't you move?"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9919552/Romanian-and-Bulgarian-migration-into-Germany-They-come-to-look-for-a-better-life.-But-someone-must-pay-for-that.html
"The homeless population in Germany has grown sharply in recent years, partly because of a growing influx of destitute Romanians, Bulgarians and other Eastern Europeans. Since their native countries joined the European Union in 2007, Bulgarians and Romanians have been able to enter Germany without visas or residence permits."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-cities-struggle-to-accommodate-rise-in-homeless-a-885484.html
pre 11 godina
Danilo said, "Mixing and mingling in life's rich pageantry is a good thing - better than various isolated bubbles."
Rich pageantry? One only needs to read your comments here to appreciate the hypocrisy. You move to Serbia-(I doubt you do a lot of mingling)- and then express(endlessly)your general disdain for all things Serbian.
pre 11 godina
Yes Michael print money, we all saw how well that went for Serbia in the nineties. Granted, it seems that was orchestrated by Milosevic to rob the Serbs of all their deutchmarks and other worthy cash and send it to banks in Cyprus, still it was really fun to see it happening. Print trillions of dinars for all we care. I would go back to getting a Serbian passport just to vote for you as president of Serbia if you run for office. Here is one Albanian Serbia would gain back in its books if you do that. Truly.
pre 11 godina
“Serbia cannot be without the EU. Only Norway and Switzerland are outside the system but they are full of oil and money. We have neither oil nor money. Look at Serbia. We do not have a potential to attract great European powers to invest here so we could develop,” Pribićević pointed out.
Yep, maybe this helps to stop the silly comparison between Serbia and Switzerland/Norway which indeed do fine outside EU (though their economy is tightly coupled, and they are members of the Schengen Treaty)
pre 11 godina
Serbia cannot solve the issue without recognizing Kosova. It's impossible since Prishtina will not accept less than an recognition from Belgrade.
Serbia cannot solve the issue without Kosova.
(Demi, 4 April 2013 13:58)
Who cares about what Pristina says, recognition is not a condition from EU but to solve the issue with the institutions in the north. I wipe my ass with Pristinas opinion on anything.
pre 11 godina
if Serbia is willing to grant the same rights to the Albanian majority of "Presevo & Bujonovac"
Actually in BujanoVac there is a huge serb majority and in Presevo its 50/50 and last but not least Serbia is a country, Kosovo isn´t. No Un seat remember?
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