I understand why you want the UK and NATO to be guilty of genocide, in some sort of sick way it'd make the attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s easier to digest; you think it'd erase some of the guilt. Trust me, if the UK and NATO had attempted a genocide in FR Yugoslavia, they'd have been significantly more civilian casualties than 3000; many of which were Albanians.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 14:29)
May I ask right honorable gentleman what are those "attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s"?
NATO's objective was to bomb Serbia because they did not accept military part of Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. Basically ground invasion. Than they started bombing with intention to commit genocide. Shame on you Ian! (Mendo, 28. mart 2013 21:25) Someone has escaped from the looney assylum.
NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 11:23)
NATO's objective was to bomb Serbia because they did not accept military part of Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. Basically ground invasion. Than they started bombing with intention to commit genocide. Shame on you Ian!
You were pushing mate for genocide but luckily US and UK did not get support from other NATO members, especially from French.You had a plan for ground invasion and Tony Blair was very keen on ground invasion. Just imagine what would you do to Serbian population if you managed to occupy us? Probably the same what you did in Iraq.
Only two countries which continued to use cluster ammunition outside Kosovo on civilian targets until the end of bombing were US and UK. Shame on you Ian! Genocide denier!
(Mendo, 28 March 2013 17:01)
You obviously do not understand what genocide is.
War is different from Genocide.
Also how can one deny something which never happened? You're the only person in the world who believes that Serbs are victim of a genocide by NATO.
Isn't it time for you to think of a new way to portray the Serb people as victims?
I understand why you want the UK and NATO to be guilty of genocide, in some sort of sick way it'd make the attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s easier to digest; you think it'd erase some of the guilt. Trust me, if the UK and NATO had attempted a genocide in FR Yugoslavia, they'd have been significantly more civilian casualties than 3000; many of which were Albanians.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 14:29)
You were pushing mate for genocide but luckily US and UK did not get support from other NATO members, especially from French.You had a plan for ground invasion and Tony Blair was very keen on ground invasion. Just imagine what would you do to Serbian population if you managed to occupy us? Probably the same what you did in Iraq.
Only two countries which continued to use cluster ammunition outside Kosovo on civilian targets until the end of bombing were US and UK. Shame on you Ian! Genocide denier!
On which basis you can make claim like that? First you wanted to occupy whole Serbia but as the Serbs did not want to sign Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. After we did not let you occupy us, your intention was to remove Serbs completely from Kosovo which is called ethnic cleansing. And you were successful in that Ian, we can still see the results of your actions.
(Res, 28 March 2013 14:36)
What basis? On the basis of logical, reality, truth and sensibility!
According to the 1991 Yugoslavia there were 194,190 Serbs in Kosovo.
There are currently around 140,000 Serbs in Kosovo.
Had NATO wanted to ethnically cleanse Kosovo of Serbs, more than 54,000 Serbs would have left Kosovo; besides most Serbs left before NATO intervened in the Kosovo War. This is just a fraction compared to the the amount of Albanians which left Kosovo. There are half a million in Germany alone and another 200,000 in Switzerland and over 100,000 in Macedonia. NATO hasn't ethnically cleansed Kosovo, instead NATO countries have spent millions on returning people to Kosovo; including Serbs.
Please stop regurgitating nationalist propaganda and lies.
lol @ Mendo claiming that the NATO action was "genocide".
$10 he'd say Srebrenica wasn't because not enough women were killed or the teenagers killed were potentially vulnerable to be conscripted as child soldiers so fair game.
It was not NATO's intention to edterminate the Serb population of Yugoslavia and the civilian casualties wers not systematic killimgs. NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 11:23)
On which basis you can make claim like that? First you wanted to occupy whole Serbia but as the Serbs did not want to sign Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. After we did not let you occupy us, your intention was to remove Serbs completely from Kosovo which is called ethnic cleansing. And you were successful in that Ian, we can still see the results of your actions.
I am not a fool! Ian, you bombed civilian targets, not only military ones. You also wanted to have ground invasion of Yugoslavia, perfect setting to commit genocide. Ian, you are not stranger to genocide and this is not the first one in history you committed.
(Mendo, 28 March 2013 13:43)
Yes Britain has been responsible for genocide, but not in the Balkans. So stop it with this self victimisation, no one else is buying it... well maybe the Russians.
Britain has one of the darkest histories in the world, I don't dispute that.
You're the sort of people that loosely uses the term "genocide"; just because civilians die during a war doesn't make it genocide, there will always be civilian casualties in war. War is not a nice thing.
There was no systematic attempt to exterminate all Serbs from FR Yugoslavia by NATO therefore there wasn't a genocide. Had there been a systematic attempt to exterminate all Serbs from FR Yugoslavia, then there would have been an attempted genocide.
I understand why you want the UK and NATO to be guilty of genocide, in some sort of sick way it'd make the attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s easier to digest; you think it'd erase some of the guilt. Trust me, if the UK and NATO had attempted a genocide in FR Yugoslavia, they'd have been significantly more civilian casualties than 3000; many of which were Albanians.
Just as many Albanians were killed during NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia. It was not NATO's intention to edterminate the Serb population of Yugoslavia and the civilian casualties wers not systematic killimgs. NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 11:23)
I am not a fool! Ian, you bombed civilian targets, not only military ones. You also wanted to have ground invasion of Yugoslavia, perfect setting to commit genocide. Ian, you are not stranger to genocide and this is not the first one in history you committed.
"God only knows where you have plucked the figure of 8800"
It's the figure of the International Commission on Missing Persons. You know... the people digging up the mass graves and doing DNA analysis since 1995. Never heard of them? Not surprising. You don't strike me as actually interested in finding out information.
Were these bones the of fallen fighters?
Maybe! And the fact that many of them were found in 3 different mass-graves only proves how crafty those fighters were! In the heat of battle, they buried themselves. Then they dug themselves up and re-buried themselves in a secondary grave. Then, they re-dug themselves into a tertiary grave (well, just some of them). And, all just to make Serbs look bad.
Ned TaylorThe killings of thousands of people in Iraq,Afganistan andin Libya were planned in advance and since the means justify the ends that constitutes genocide.The funny thing is the people on this site always use the term to describe the casualties of a civil war and at the same time are refusing even to condemn the torture and killings of millions of people of the countries above.This to me is sheer hypocrisy .Worse none has ever being brought to court for these crimes. (Gotsefromohrid, 28. mart 2013 00:41) The aim of the Iraq War was to find WMDs, regime change and natural resources. Please provide me with a reliable source which says the killing of civilians was "planned in advance" and/ or systematic. Yes torture is a war crime and Bush and Blair should be behind bars. Was 9/11 genocide according to your logic?
He tried to wipe out Serbs during 1999 Kosovo war. Bombing was aimed at Serbs not at Albanians. Neither he tried to protect Serbs from KLA. Same thing happened from 1992-1995, Bosnian Serbs were bombed, never Croats or Bosnian Muslims (although he is not responsible for Bosnian war as he came to power in 1997). Remember, RTS building bombing during Kosovo war, one of the targets he personally picked. (Mendo, 28. mart 2013 07:45) Just as many Albanians were killed during NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia. It was not NATO's intention to edterminate the Serb population of Yugoslavia and the civilian casualties wers not systematic killimgs. NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
The more pressure Jeremic gets and speaks about it, the more he elevates the importance of this day.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23
The ironic thing is Jeremic has said many times that he is under enormous pressure to cancel the debate. There is no evidence of the fact, the people that he is accusing of putting the pressure are slated to speak at the debate. He has mentioned a few people that originally signed up and then cancelled.
It sounds and I think it will be viewed as more of the now well known tactics of Serbia of the "boogey many behind the tree" claims.
You have to remember there is nothing that will come out of this debates other than some will make claims that can never be proven nor once the debate is over will they be asked to prove it.
Sometimes you have leaders who have to make real sacrifices for their people and then you have those that must create scenarios to make the impression that they have endured many sacrifices. Which is Jeremic?
Tony Blair is responsible for war crimes, however he is not responsible for genocide. If you disagree, please tell us which ethnic group(s) he tried to have wiped out/ exterminated? And the there was nothing systematic about the deaths of civilians he is responsible for. Please do the same for David Cameron as well.
(Ian, UK, 27 March 2013 16:22)
He tried to wipe out Serbs during 1999 Kosovo war. Bombing was aimed at Serbs not at Albanians. Neither he tried to protect Serbs from KLA. Same thing happened from 1992-1995, Bosnian Serbs were bombed, never Croats or Bosnian Muslims (although he is not responsible for Bosnian war as he came to power in 1997). Remember, RTS building bombing during Kosovo war, one of the targets he personally picked.
The more pressure Jeremic gets and speaks about it, the more he elevates the importance of this day.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Here I fully agree with you. Vuk does have to show to the world the enormous pressure he is facing and his heroic efforts to resist the pressure. Since this event is being ignored, it’s the only way to give the impression that anybody cares beside Vuk. The more Vuk speaks about the pressure he is facing, the more that indicates that the event is being ignored. As any child, Vuk is in need of attention :)
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So yes, it is time for the other side to be heard and it is great that it gets sealed into an official UN document. Enough of the manipulated crap that gets constantly repeated! Let the truth be known.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Let me know if you have any documents for which you want the UN seal on them. I can seal a few of them for you and I guarantee that the world will recognize them as the word of God after that :)
The point here is that we *finally* get to hear the other side of the story and it then gets sealed into a UN document, for historians and academics to reference!
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Ha, ha, ha… I’m sure that “academic” Zoran will write a treatise on international justice based on that which will be studied in universities across the globe. My doubt though is why “academic” Zoran has to wait for a UN letterhead to do that! A UN letterhead can’t certainly transform a lie into a truth or viceversa…
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We have heard enough of the propaganda coming from one side and if it gets repeated then nothing new there, we've heard it all before.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Ok, so you’re saying that we’ll hear some NEW propaganda from the other side and that’s the interesting part of the event :)
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What is new is that we finally get to hear about the farce the NATO court really is and it should open the eyes of many people and countries.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
You mean the farce Russia court… According to what's sealed into UN documents, it was Russia which proposed the court, approved it and approved and continues to approve the judges.
God only knows where you have plucked the figure of 8800 from, thats a first. The amount of bodies found cannot be verified to have all been muslims killed by Serb forces on 11/7/95 and some days after. Have you forgotten about Oric's crimes prior to 1995? I wonder how many of those dead ended up in mass graves around Srebrenica, but oh no as usual you decide to overlook any crimes against Serbs. You are a joke indeed.
The killings of thousands of people in Iraq,Afganistan and Libya were planned in advance and since the means justify the ends that constitutes genocide.The funny thing is the people on this site always use the term to describe the casualties of a civil war and at the same time are refusing even to condemn the torture and killings of millions of people of the countries above.This to me is sheer hypocrisy .Worse none has ever being brought to court for these crimes.
If I were you instead of finding excuses I would hang my head in shame and take the rest of Britain with you little man
(Gotsefromohrid, 27 March 2013 20:28)
What excuses? I am ashamed of Britain's involvement with the Iraq War. I've opposed it since day one.
This dude is a clown! Vuk go back to your roots. You gave up your religion for a political career in Serbia.
(Bridge, 27 March 2013 14:37)
===================================
When was he ever a Muslim and when did he convert to Orthodox?
To give up something means you had to have it first so when did he convert from Islam to Orthodox?
You made the statement so you have to now prove it.
I know what genocide is I read your comment too quick..
I wanted to say that I also don't believe genocide took place that's why I brought it up.
It would be more fair if more non Serbs would have been punished for crimes against Serbs and other ethnic groups. For that I believe that the court failed. And for the NATO bombings too, who is going to pay for the damages caused in Serbia/MNE and Kosovo? That also happened on the territory of Former Yugoslavia. I think no one will pay for it.. And that what happened in former YU and all the wars caused after, was all in the agenda of the elite. (bilderberg/illuminati etc).
(mick, 27 March 2013 20:23)
I agree that many crimes during the Yugoslav Wars have gone unpunished, many of which Serbs were victims of. I don't believe this to be the Court's failure, but I believe it to be due to a lack of evidence as well as the destruction of evidence. I think the case with Croats is that ICTY has not been able to prove that the crimes against Serbs came from the top senior officials down to the grass-roots soldiers. With Operation Storm there was most definitely crimes committed against Serbs, but it is one thing to prove they happened; it is another thing proving that Gotovina and Markac bare responsibility for the crimes which happened and that individual Croat soldiers didn't act of their own accordance.
I think NATO should compensate for civilian infrastructure destroyed such as housing, bridges ect but not for military targets.
I am not aware of any Albanian going on about the Balkan War left right and centre. its Serbs who always bring up WW2 in relation to anything. frankly, its boring. yes WW2 was horrible for the Serbs, it was horrible for a lot of others too, it doiesn't justify the grotesque acts that followed in the mid 90s.
@Think about it
You have proven MICK=Not objective, not ICTY.
Yeah I understand Serbs where were fighting on all fronts in the war while other groups on one front so that 10srb-10alb-10cro is exaggerated.
But What justice do the Serbian victims get from this when almost no one is punished for the crimes caused to the Serbs..
I try to be objective but when i see that the Croatian Generals are and Haradinaj acquitted then who did commit the crimes if those people didn't do that?
@Ian
I know what genocide is I read your comment too quick..
I wanted to say that I also don't believe genocide took place that's why I brought it up.
It would be more fair if more non Serbs would have been punished for crimes against Serbs and other ethnic groups. For that I believe that the court failed. And for the NATO bombings too, who is going to pay for the damages caused in Serbia/MNE and Kosovo? That also happened on the territory of Former Yugoslavia. I think no one will pay for it.. And that what happened in former YU and all the wars caused after, was all in the agenda of the elite. (bilderberg/illuminati etc).
I do not want priveliged treatement for my people. its serbs who go on about WW2 all the time. we get it, you suffered a lot at the hand of Nazis, it still doesn't justify your conducts in the 90's
(Nikolle, 27 March 2013 16:30)
--
You don't want privileged treatment but you got it. Your criminals are being protected by bigger criminals in the US. As for the conduct in the 90s, it was provoked by KLA terrorism. I'm not saying Serbs were angels but neither side can claim the moral high ground.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My point was that a number of Albanians do write about the injustice they faced - not during WW2 - but even before WW1! The year 1913 is constantly mentioned here in comments of Albanians as something that has to be taken in account. You write "its serbs who go on about WW2 all the time". I cannot understand why you are so one-eyed calling just Serbs pathetic bringing old times to the table. Will you admit that Albanians are as pathetic? Or you allow them some freedoms to be pathetic and don't call them by that name?
What about the killings of 10 thousand Iraqi Sunis in Basra Nd another 80 thousand in Falujah?What about the torture of many Iraqis?What about the deaths of nearly 100 Libyans?I guess those crimes do no count as genocide.
(Gotsefromohrid, 27 March 2013 17:42)
No they do not count as genocide. You clearly do not understand the term "genocide". Let me give you a definition of "genocide":
"The deliberate and systematic extermination of, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group".
At no point in the Iraq War did the US or UK attempt to exterminate a population on the grounds of "ethnicity, race, religion". Ethnicity, race, religion and national groups played no role in the UK's and US's bombing and occupation of Iraq. It isn't the amount that were killed that makes it genocide, it is the motive behind killing them that makes it genocide. The civilian casualties at the hands of British and American armed forces during the Iraq war were indiscriminate and collateral. The senior military leadership didn't care if there were civilian casualties and they certainly didn't care what race, ethnicity or religion they were. Iraqi civilians were not killed on the grounds of being an Arab, Kurd, Turkmen, Assyrian, Shi'a, Sunni or Christian ect. Had that been a motive and had their murders been systematic, then yes it would have been genocide.
Gotsefromohrid: I am no lawyer but I do know that genocide is not solely about statistics but about the intentions of the people doing the killing. The relevant 1948 convention describes the 'mental' and physical' elements required to be present in order for a crime to be deemed to be genocide. Did the allied forces intend to destroy in whole or part a national, ethnical (sic),racial or religious group? Were there measures to prevent births within the group and were children forcibly transferred from one group to another? The term genocide is thrown around willy nilly without a great deal of thought. That's not to say that I do not think that the acts to which you refer were genocide but I do not know enough about the intentions of those doing the killing to form this conclusion; neither, I suspect, do you.
What about the killings of 10 thousand Iraqi Sunis in Basra Nd another 80 thousand in Falujah?What about the torture of many Iraqis?What about the deaths of nearly 100 Libyans?I guess those crimes do no count as genocide.
Read this carefully, if an Albanian is proven to ave corraborated in criminal activity, he/she should get the maximum penalty for that act. I do not want priveliged treatement for my people. its serbs who go on about WW2 all the time. we get it, you suffered a lot at the hand of Nazis, it still doesn't justify your conducts in the 90's
Comical posting again from Ian.Do you know what the word genocide means?Well if you open a n Oxford dictionary you'll get it's definition (don't they have dictionaries in Bradistan?).genocide applies to the crimes committed by the likes of Blair and Cameron in the Middle East.
(Gotsefromohrid, 27 March 2013 15:36)
Of course I know what genocide is, I wasn't the one asking what genocide is; that was mick. Genocide is the intentional and systematic extermination of an ethnic group. I'm not the one who uses the term very loosely. I don't instantly scream the word "genocide" when someone is assualted unlike Ari Gold. Of course we have dictionaries in Islamabrad.
Tony Blair is responsible for war crimes, however he is not responsible for genocide. If you disagree, please tell us which ethnic group(s) he tried to have wiped out/ exterminated? And the there was nothing systematic about the deaths of civilians he is responsible for. Please do the same for David Cameron as well.
"not even the made up western figures of 7000 are enough for him"
it's 8800 not 7000. and they didn't make them up, they found the bones. They've identified 6500+ victims with DNA analysis and are still working on it. They identify about 2 bodies a day. You see, this work take a lot more time than it takes to type, "it didn't happen; it's a scam; it can't be true because it would hurt my feelings so please don't talk about it"
"do you want leniency for Serb suffering 70 years ago? such victim mentality, its pathetic"
That makes me to ask you what's the time limit for understanding the Albanian suffering that doesn't prove for Albanian victim mentality and that isn't pathetic? How old sufferings should not be mentioned anymore, how recent they must be to be still useable?
You might want to scratch the Serb part from your signature!!!
Why are Serbians from Serbia being punished if they aren't as nationalistic as a Canadian Serb?
I have a couple of questions for you I'm a Serb, a Croat and a Muslim.
Are Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Karadzic ethnic Serbs or Montenegrins?
Also, would Ratko Mladic be an ethnic Serb or an ethnic Bosnian?
(Another Canadian Serb, 27 March 2013 15:25)
I was born in Serbia to a Serb mother, that makes me more of a Serb than you'll ever be.
"Why are Serbians from Serbia being punished if they aren't as nationalistic as a Canadian Serb?" Because some Serbs from Serbia did some terrible things in the 1990s, as did Croats and Muslims.
"Are Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Karadzic ethnic Serbs or Montenegrins?" They are ethnic Serbs from Montenegero. Montenegero is to Serbia what Austria is to Germany.
"Also, would Ratko Mladic be an ethnic Serb or an ethnic Bosnian?" An ethnic Serb from Bosnia.
Ethnicties are not defined by political/ administrative borders.
ICTY= Not objective!
(mick, 27 March 2013 14:04)
You have proven MICK=Not objective, not ICTY.
Just because the court indicts and convicts more Serbs than anyone else shows that Serbia bears the brunt of responsibility of the crimes committed. It would be ludicrous if the court approached it by saying ok we convicted 10 Serbs so now we HAVE to convict 10 Croatians and 10 Albanians.
Comical posting again from Ian.Do you know what the word genocide means?Well if you open a n Oxford dictionary you'll get it's definition (don't they have dictionaries in Bradistan?).genocide applies to the crimes committed by the likes of Blair and Cameron in the Middle East.
Mr Jeremic is one of the bravest men on this planet. He fights impossible odds against a giant system designed to promote only their agenda and one that refuses to recognize the truth. God Bless you!
Nobody answered Bam Bam !?!
"I doubt this guy will mention the Serbian army marching into Srebrenica and slaughtering 15000 of Bosnians finest or ethnically cleansing 1000000 Albanians from Kosova forcing them to enter Albania proper(Bam Bam, 27 March 2013 10:41) "
Finest fighters who use to come out to attack Serbian villages and massacre civilians in the hills even at Christmas and go back to change cloths and mix in Srebrenica in order to look like non combatants.(The major conclusion from Morillon's testimony was this: The fall of Srebrenica in 1995 was the "direct reaction" to the massacres of Bosnian Serbs by Naser Oric's forces in 1992-1993. Morillon acknowledged that Oric's troops had committed war crimes in eastern Bosnia. Morillon personally witnessed the exhumation of the bodies of Bosnian Serb civilians and soldiers who had been tortured, mutilated, and executed. He saw with his own eyes the Serbian villages that had been burned to the ground in the Srebrenica pocket)
On the Albanians that had left when the Nato bombing started,they returned more numerous than when they had left (note that every civilian no matter the nationality flee combat zones and aerial bombing. BamBam,either you do it on purpose or you lack some education so here it is for you:
...Like many other nations, mine has travelled through ... Jeremic told a gathering of small states in October, 2012, shortly after starting his one-year term....
Around 140.000 deaths on all sides is not genocide!
200.000 Serbs killed in Bosnia WW2= Genocide 20% of the population
And Serbs of Croatia reduced by more then 50% from 1.2-1.3mil to 600.000 in WW2 1941-1945 that is an example of genocide!
Here a list of the 161 indicated persons http://www.icty.org/sections/TheCases/KeyFiguresoftheCases
But of those 161 most are Serbs, and of the people sentenced look at the difference of imprisonment what Serbs get and what non Serbs get..
ICTY= Not objective!
Around 140.000 deaths on all sides is not genocide!
200.000 Serbs killed in Bosnia WW2= Genocide 20% of the population
And Serbs of Croatia reduced by more then 50% from 1.2-1.3mil to 600.000 in WW2 1941-1945 that is an example of genocide!
Here a list of the 161 indicated persons [link]
But of those 161 most are Serbs, and of the people sentenced look at the difference of imprisonment what Serbs get and what non Serbs get..
ICTY= Not objective!
(mick, 27 March 2013 14:04)
If you don't know what genocide is, then why did you bring it up?
Did genocide happen in the former-Yugoslavia? I don't believe it did, but attempted genocide did happen.
Yes many Serb civilians were killed in an attempted genocide in Bosnia during WW2, but the ICTY doesn't deal with WW2.
Yes 161 were indicted by the ICTY and yes Serbs form the biggest ethnic group of those who were idicted. This is because A) They were involved in the most wars B) They committed the most war crimes.
How would you have it? Every time a Serb is indicted, a Bosniak and a Croat must also be indicted just to make sure it is "fair"? And if a Serb is senteced to 25 years imprisonment, a Bosniak and a Croat must also be sentenced to 25 years impisonmnet? Would that be "fair" and "objective"?
It is clear that Jeremic is 'using' his position but it is a stretch to say he is abusing it. He is entitled to schedule this debate and it can come as no surprise to those who supported his election that he has done so. He is perhaps treating some very intelligent people as idiots by not being honest about his reasons for wanting this debate and the timing thereof but I would have thought that they would have been better served appearing in the chamber and having their say than declining to attend. The work of international tribunals ought to come under regular scrutiny not least as there are continuing atrocities being committed in all parts of the world and such tribunals/courts are likely to be very busy in the future. Let him have his day in the sun and if he embarrasses himself then it's his own reputation and possibly Serbia's that is on the line not that of the UN itself.
There was 150000 of Bosnian's finest and 10000000 illegal aliens of Albanian ethnicity.
Didn't you learn how to round up your numbers at the University of Prishtina?
(Another Canadian Serb, 27 March 2013 13:30)
You're just another ultra-nationalist in the Serb Diaspora. Why aren't Serbs in Serbia as nationalist as the Serb Diaspora? Let me guess, your host country doesn't deem you an "illegal alien"? However what I can tell is that Canada has an amazing education system. I didn't realize there were 10 million Albanians in total across the world, but apparently there was 10 million 'illegal aliens of Albanian ethnicity' in Yugoslavia. You learn something new every day.
I believe that Vuk Jeremić's is self serving his own interests with this non-biding "debate", with the intention of releasing our national "heroes" from behind bars. I believe he should use his role as UN General Assembly President on achieving the return of refugees acordd the Balkans regardless of ethnicity. Instead Vuk Jeremić is starting a debate which will be another "who did what" debate and will achieve nothing.
"One quarter of our population perished in the First World War, at enormous cost to our development. In the Second World War, close to a million Serbs fell to defeat the scourge of fascism,"
excpet of course, that the Hague Tribunal has nothing to do with WW2. do you want leniency for Serb suffering 70 years ago? such victim mentality, its pathetic
"One quarter of our population perished in the First World War, at enormous cost to our development. In the Second World War, close to a million Serbs fell to defeat the scourge of fascism," Foreign Policy quoted him as saying.”
The quality of those losses is very high ! Most of them has sacrificed or fell down because of the atrocities against the Great partisan movement as the only real resistance on the continent outside the USSR before 1944. We Russians value it more than the others. Especially the resistance of 1941-42. All other partisan movements in Europe were not massive. Most of their achievements were invented after the war and helped us little. Only 3 peoples fought in Europe before 1944 the English plus some of the Yugoslavian peoples and us. This is the truth. 17 countries sent troops above 1 division ( 18 000 ) against the USSR. So you cannot blame only Adolf. And Serbs were in an even worse position in the heart of Europe. I feel pity for those who died in Auschwitz or Maidanek but I feel much more compassion and gratefulness for those who died on the battlefield. The first were just victims while the last were heroes to be remembered for centuries. So Serbs should take it easy when Europe “forget” those heroes. Enough is that we both know the truth.
Is your lot any better? First of all, all of the BRICS countries support Serbia's stand. It is simply incorrect to pretend as if only isolated rouge nations are on Serbia's side. And you mention right wing dictatorships but who are you to say anything at all? The U.K. spends money on "defense" as if it still is trying to maintain an empire. The U.S. and its NATO allies regularly engage in military conflict all over the world without any threat on their own citizens.
Trust me you guys are not much better. In the UK its simply more sophisticated than an outright dictatorship but in reality you have UKIP and you have the rest of the establishment that agrees on 99.99% of issues.
(Ari Gold, 27 March 2013 12:36)
Looks like I hit a nerve. Please keep your comments relevant to the article.
So yes, it is time for the other side to be heard and it is great that it gets sealed into an official UN document. Enough of the manipulated crap that gets constantly repeated! Let the truth be known.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23
And how many countries do you think is going to criticize the work of the ICTY, it is basically of interest to the nations of the UNSC and countries of the former Yugoslavia and Europe. Do you think that Lebanon has been following the cases of the ICTY. The debate scheduled for UN members is on the morning session. By the time Serbia parades their group and then US, Russia, China, France, UK, Croatia, Germany, maybe Slovenia, Bosnia. Your document is going to contain more praise than criticism.
Jeremic hijacking UN to make a name for himself in his home country. The internationals are begining to see that it was a mistake to let this clown in that position. With this debate he has dashed any hope he may have to become the UN General Secretary.
You Albanians & Anti-Serbs amaze me with your stupidity.
You think he is the biggest clown but he is in a position to lead a debate at the United Nations General Assembly. Hmmm, I'm not quite sure on the clowns you Albanians bring to your little parties but I'm sure they don't attend events by the UNGA.
Actually I'm certain they don't participate in events organised by the UNGA because there is no such state as Kosova.
Kosovo on the other hand will be at the debate as part of Vuk because it's his blood ;)
Sorry poor loser Albanians, you might get on the big stage one day, but it certainly won't include the name KosovA.
Is your lot any better? First of all, all of the BRICS countries support Serbia's stand. It is simply incorrect to pretend as if only isolated rouge nations are on Serbia's side. And you mention right wing dictatorships but who are you to say anything at all? The U.K. spends money on "defense" as if it still is trying to maintain an empire. The U.S. and its NATO allies regularly engage in military conflict all over the world without any threat on their own citizens.
Trust me you guys are not much better. In the UK its simply more sophisticated than an outright dictatorship but in reality you have UKIP and you have the rest of the establishment that agrees on 99.99% of issues.
The point here is that we *finally* get to hear the other side of the story and it then gets sealed into a UN document, for historians and academics to reference! We have heard enough of the propaganda coming from one side and if it gets repeated then nothing new there, we've heard it all before.
What is new is that we finally get to hear about the farce the NATO court really is and it should open the eyes of many people and countries. The more pressure Jeremic gets and speaks about it, the more he elevates the importance of this day.
So yes, it is time for the other side to be heard and it is great that it gets sealed into an official UN document. Enough of the manipulated crap that gets constantly repeated! Let the truth be known.
"Jeremić is facing a backlash from governments and international jurists who feel he has abused his position to advance his narrow national interests."
Jeremic's abuses of his offices are obvious. If he would be serious with what he says he would have chosen a recent event, e.g. the 11th July - the day of the Srebrenica genocide. The cancellation of high-ranking UN personnel definitely comes from the fact that there is no tolerance for those abuses any more. But I recommend to face that clown with simple facts and counter his primitive provocations. This day is perfect to explain in detail why it was inappropriate to use the Mrs na Drinu genocide song. But also to go in detail what happened in the last Balkan war 1989-99 so that to thwart Jeremic's real attempt, to rewrite history. At least in September that charade will be over and the UNGA has his basic dignity back.
I doubt this guy will mention the Serbian army marching into Srebrenica and slaughtering 15000 of Bosnians finest or ethnically cleansing 1000000 Albanians from Kosova forcing them to enter Albania proper
I can't wait for this debate. I can't wait for Serbia and a load of right wing dictatorships to talk about "justice" and "fairness". Despite the fact that the ICTY has statistically being in the favour of indicted Serbs. Far more Serbs have been acquitted/ had their Indictment withdrawn by the ICTY compared to Croats and Bosniaks. This is a list of Serbs:
Mirko Babic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Nenad Banovic: Indictment withdrawn 10 April 2002
Zdravko Govedarica: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Dragan Kondic: Indictment withdrawn 5 May 1998
Predag Kostic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Zoran Marinic: Indictment withdrawn 3 October 2002
Milan Milutinovic: Acquitted 26 February 2009
Nedeljko Paspalj: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Milan Pavlic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Momčilo Perišić: Acquitted 28 February 2013
Milutin Popovic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Draženko Predojevic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Miroslav Radic: Acquitted 27 September 2007
Željko Savic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Pero Skopljak: Indictment withdrawn 19 December 1997
Ivan Šantic: Indictment withdrawn 19 December 1997
Dragomir Šaponja: Indictment withdrawn 5 May 1998
Nedjeljko Timarac: Indictment withdrawn 5 May 1998
Milan Zec: Indictment withdrawn 26 July 2002
Even Radovan Karadzic was aquitted of one count of genocide in June last year. Plenty of Croats and Bosniaks are behind bars!
You Albanians & Anti-Serbs amaze me with your stupidity.
You think he is the biggest clown but he is in a position to lead a debate at the United Nations General Assembly. Hmmm, I'm not quite sure on the clowns you Albanians bring to your little parties but I'm sure they don't attend events by the UNGA.
Actually I'm certain they don't participate in events organised by the UNGA because there is no such state as Kosova.
Kosovo on the other hand will be at the debate as part of Vuk because it's his blood ;)
Sorry poor loser Albanians, you might get on the big stage one day, but it certainly won't include the name KosovA.
I doubt this guy will mention the Serbian army marching into Srebrenica and slaughtering 15000 of Bosnians finest or ethnically cleansing 1000000 Albanians from Kosova forcing them to enter Albania proper
Is your lot any better? First of all, all of the BRICS countries support Serbia's stand. It is simply incorrect to pretend as if only isolated rouge nations are on Serbia's side. And you mention right wing dictatorships but who are you to say anything at all? The U.K. spends money on "defense" as if it still is trying to maintain an empire. The U.S. and its NATO allies regularly engage in military conflict all over the world without any threat on their own citizens.
Trust me you guys are not much better. In the UK its simply more sophisticated than an outright dictatorship but in reality you have UKIP and you have the rest of the establishment that agrees on 99.99% of issues.
I can't wait for this debate. I can't wait for Serbia and a load of right wing dictatorships to talk about "justice" and "fairness". Despite the fact that the ICTY has statistically being in the favour of indicted Serbs. Far more Serbs have been acquitted/ had their Indictment withdrawn by the ICTY compared to Croats and Bosniaks. This is a list of Serbs:
Mirko Babic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Nenad Banovic: Indictment withdrawn 10 April 2002
Zdravko Govedarica: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Dragan Kondic: Indictment withdrawn 5 May 1998
Predag Kostic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Zoran Marinic: Indictment withdrawn 3 October 2002
Milan Milutinovic: Acquitted 26 February 2009
Nedeljko Paspalj: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Milan Pavlic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Momčilo Perišić: Acquitted 28 February 2013
Milutin Popovic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Draženko Predojevic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Miroslav Radic: Acquitted 27 September 2007
Željko Savic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Pero Skopljak: Indictment withdrawn 19 December 1997
Ivan Šantic: Indictment withdrawn 19 December 1997
Dragomir Šaponja: Indictment withdrawn 5 May 1998
Nedjeljko Timarac: Indictment withdrawn 5 May 1998
Milan Zec: Indictment withdrawn 26 July 2002
Even Radovan Karadzic was aquitted of one count of genocide in June last year. Plenty of Croats and Bosniaks are behind bars!
The point here is that we *finally* get to hear the other side of the story and it then gets sealed into a UN document, for historians and academics to reference! We have heard enough of the propaganda coming from one side and if it gets repeated then nothing new there, we've heard it all before.
What is new is that we finally get to hear about the farce the NATO court really is and it should open the eyes of many people and countries. The more pressure Jeremic gets and speaks about it, the more he elevates the importance of this day.
So yes, it is time for the other side to be heard and it is great that it gets sealed into an official UN document. Enough of the manipulated crap that gets constantly repeated! Let the truth be known.
Comical posting again from Ian.Do you know what the word genocide means?Well if you open a n Oxford dictionary you'll get it's definition (don't they have dictionaries in Bradistan?).genocide applies to the crimes committed by the likes of Blair and Cameron in the Middle East.
Mr Jeremic is one of the bravest men on this planet. He fights impossible odds against a giant system designed to promote only their agenda and one that refuses to recognize the truth. God Bless you!
"Jeremić is facing a backlash from governments and international jurists who feel he has abused his position to advance his narrow national interests."
Jeremic's abuses of his offices are obvious. If he would be serious with what he says he would have chosen a recent event, e.g. the 11th July - the day of the Srebrenica genocide. The cancellation of high-ranking UN personnel definitely comes from the fact that there is no tolerance for those abuses any more. But I recommend to face that clown with simple facts and counter his primitive provocations. This day is perfect to explain in detail why it was inappropriate to use the Mrs na Drinu genocide song. But also to go in detail what happened in the last Balkan war 1989-99 so that to thwart Jeremic's real attempt, to rewrite history. At least in September that charade will be over and the UNGA has his basic dignity back.
"One quarter of our population perished in the First World War, at enormous cost to our development. In the Second World War, close to a million Serbs fell to defeat the scourge of fascism,"
excpet of course, that the Hague Tribunal has nothing to do with WW2. do you want leniency for Serb suffering 70 years ago? such victim mentality, its pathetic
Around 140.000 deaths on all sides is not genocide!
200.000 Serbs killed in Bosnia WW2= Genocide 20% of the population
And Serbs of Croatia reduced by more then 50% from 1.2-1.3mil to 600.000 in WW2 1941-1945 that is an example of genocide!
Here a list of the 161 indicated persons [link]
But of those 161 most are Serbs, and of the people sentenced look at the difference of imprisonment what Serbs get and what non Serbs get..
ICTY= Not objective!
(mick, 27 March 2013 14:04)
If you don't know what genocide is, then why did you bring it up?
Did genocide happen in the former-Yugoslavia? I don't believe it did, but attempted genocide did happen.
Yes many Serb civilians were killed in an attempted genocide in Bosnia during WW2, but the ICTY doesn't deal with WW2.
Yes 161 were indicted by the ICTY and yes Serbs form the biggest ethnic group of those who were idicted. This is because A) They were involved in the most wars B) They committed the most war crimes.
How would you have it? Every time a Serb is indicted, a Bosniak and a Croat must also be indicted just to make sure it is "fair"? And if a Serb is senteced to 25 years imprisonment, a Bosniak and a Croat must also be sentenced to 25 years impisonmnet? Would that be "fair" and "objective"?
Nobody answered Bam Bam !?!
"I doubt this guy will mention the Serbian army marching into Srebrenica and slaughtering 15000 of Bosnians finest or ethnically cleansing 1000000 Albanians from Kosova forcing them to enter Albania proper(Bam Bam, 27 March 2013 10:41) "
Finest fighters who use to come out to attack Serbian villages and massacre civilians in the hills even at Christmas and go back to change cloths and mix in Srebrenica in order to look like non combatants.(The major conclusion from Morillon's testimony was this: The fall of Srebrenica in 1995 was the "direct reaction" to the massacres of Bosnian Serbs by Naser Oric's forces in 1992-1993. Morillon acknowledged that Oric's troops had committed war crimes in eastern Bosnia. Morillon personally witnessed the exhumation of the bodies of Bosnian Serb civilians and soldiers who had been tortured, mutilated, and executed. He saw with his own eyes the Serbian villages that had been burned to the ground in the Srebrenica pocket)
On the Albanians that had left when the Nato bombing started,they returned more numerous than when they had left (note that every civilian no matter the nationality flee combat zones and aerial bombing. BamBam,either you do it on purpose or you lack some education so here it is for you:
"One quarter of our population perished in the First World War, at enormous cost to our development. In the Second World War, close to a million Serbs fell to defeat the scourge of fascism," Foreign Policy quoted him as saying.”
The quality of those losses is very high ! Most of them has sacrificed or fell down because of the atrocities against the Great partisan movement as the only real resistance on the continent outside the USSR before 1944. We Russians value it more than the others. Especially the resistance of 1941-42. All other partisan movements in Europe were not massive. Most of their achievements were invented after the war and helped us little. Only 3 peoples fought in Europe before 1944 the English plus some of the Yugoslavian peoples and us. This is the truth. 17 countries sent troops above 1 division ( 18 000 ) against the USSR. So you cannot blame only Adolf. And Serbs were in an even worse position in the heart of Europe. I feel pity for those who died in Auschwitz or Maidanek but I feel much more compassion and gratefulness for those who died on the battlefield. The first were just victims while the last were heroes to be remembered for centuries. So Serbs should take it easy when Europe “forget” those heroes. Enough is that we both know the truth.
There was 150000 of Bosnian's finest and 10000000 illegal aliens of Albanian ethnicity.
Didn't you learn how to round up your numbers at the University of Prishtina?
(Another Canadian Serb, 27 March 2013 13:30)
You're just another ultra-nationalist in the Serb Diaspora. Why aren't Serbs in Serbia as nationalist as the Serb Diaspora? Let me guess, your host country doesn't deem you an "illegal alien"? However what I can tell is that Canada has an amazing education system. I didn't realize there were 10 million Albanians in total across the world, but apparently there was 10 million 'illegal aliens of Albanian ethnicity' in Yugoslavia. You learn something new every day.
I believe that Vuk Jeremić's is self serving his own interests with this non-biding "debate", with the intention of releasing our national "heroes" from behind bars. I believe he should use his role as UN General Assembly President on achieving the return of refugees acordd the Balkans regardless of ethnicity. Instead Vuk Jeremić is starting a debate which will be another "who did what" debate and will achieve nothing.
"do you want leniency for Serb suffering 70 years ago? such victim mentality, its pathetic"
That makes me to ask you what's the time limit for understanding the Albanian suffering that doesn't prove for Albanian victim mentality and that isn't pathetic? How old sufferings should not be mentioned anymore, how recent they must be to be still useable?
Is your lot any better? First of all, all of the BRICS countries support Serbia's stand. It is simply incorrect to pretend as if only isolated rouge nations are on Serbia's side. And you mention right wing dictatorships but who are you to say anything at all? The U.K. spends money on "defense" as if it still is trying to maintain an empire. The U.S. and its NATO allies regularly engage in military conflict all over the world without any threat on their own citizens.
Trust me you guys are not much better. In the UK its simply more sophisticated than an outright dictatorship but in reality you have UKIP and you have the rest of the establishment that agrees on 99.99% of issues.
(Ari Gold, 27 March 2013 12:36)
Looks like I hit a nerve. Please keep your comments relevant to the article.
What about the killings of 10 thousand Iraqi Sunis in Basra Nd another 80 thousand in Falujah?What about the torture of many Iraqis?What about the deaths of nearly 100 Libyans?I guess those crimes do no count as genocide.
Around 140.000 deaths on all sides is not genocide!
200.000 Serbs killed in Bosnia WW2= Genocide 20% of the population
And Serbs of Croatia reduced by more then 50% from 1.2-1.3mil to 600.000 in WW2 1941-1945 that is an example of genocide!
Here a list of the 161 indicated persons http://www.icty.org/sections/TheCases/KeyFiguresoftheCases
But of those 161 most are Serbs, and of the people sentenced look at the difference of imprisonment what Serbs get and what non Serbs get..
ICTY= Not objective!
You might want to scratch the Serb part from your signature!!!
Why are Serbians from Serbia being punished if they aren't as nationalistic as a Canadian Serb?
I have a couple of questions for you I'm a Serb, a Croat and a Muslim.
Are Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Karadzic ethnic Serbs or Montenegrins?
Also, would Ratko Mladic be an ethnic Serb or an ethnic Bosnian?
(Another Canadian Serb, 27 March 2013 15:25)
I was born in Serbia to a Serb mother, that makes me more of a Serb than you'll ever be.
"Why are Serbians from Serbia being punished if they aren't as nationalistic as a Canadian Serb?" Because some Serbs from Serbia did some terrible things in the 1990s, as did Croats and Muslims.
"Are Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Karadzic ethnic Serbs or Montenegrins?" They are ethnic Serbs from Montenegero. Montenegero is to Serbia what Austria is to Germany.
"Also, would Ratko Mladic be an ethnic Serb or an ethnic Bosnian?" An ethnic Serb from Bosnia.
Ethnicties are not defined by political/ administrative borders.
I am not aware of any Albanian going on about the Balkan War left right and centre. its Serbs who always bring up WW2 in relation to anything. frankly, its boring. yes WW2 was horrible for the Serbs, it was horrible for a lot of others too, it doiesn't justify the grotesque acts that followed in the mid 90s.
Jeremic hijacking UN to make a name for himself in his home country. The internationals are begining to see that it was a mistake to let this clown in that position. With this debate he has dashed any hope he may have to become the UN General Secretary.
I do not want priveliged treatement for my people. its serbs who go on about WW2 all the time. we get it, you suffered a lot at the hand of Nazis, it still doesn't justify your conducts in the 90's
(Nikolle, 27 March 2013 16:30)
--
You don't want privileged treatment but you got it. Your criminals are being protected by bigger criminals in the US. As for the conduct in the 90s, it was provoked by KLA terrorism. I'm not saying Serbs were angels but neither side can claim the moral high ground.
It is clear that Jeremic is 'using' his position but it is a stretch to say he is abusing it. He is entitled to schedule this debate and it can come as no surprise to those who supported his election that he has done so. He is perhaps treating some very intelligent people as idiots by not being honest about his reasons for wanting this debate and the timing thereof but I would have thought that they would have been better served appearing in the chamber and having their say than declining to attend. The work of international tribunals ought to come under regular scrutiny not least as there are continuing atrocities being committed in all parts of the world and such tribunals/courts are likely to be very busy in the future. Let him have his day in the sun and if he embarrasses himself then it's his own reputation and possibly Serbia's that is on the line not that of the UN itself.
ICTY= Not objective!
(mick, 27 March 2013 14:04)
You have proven MICK=Not objective, not ICTY.
Just because the court indicts and convicts more Serbs than anyone else shows that Serbia bears the brunt of responsibility of the crimes committed. It would be ludicrous if the court approached it by saying ok we convicted 10 Serbs so now we HAVE to convict 10 Croatians and 10 Albanians.
Read this carefully, if an Albanian is proven to ave corraborated in criminal activity, he/she should get the maximum penalty for that act. I do not want priveliged treatement for my people. its serbs who go on about WW2 all the time. we get it, you suffered a lot at the hand of Nazis, it still doesn't justify your conducts in the 90's
This dude is a clown! Vuk go back to your roots. You gave up your religion for a political career in Serbia.
(Bridge, 27 March 2013 14:37)
===================================
When was he ever a Muslim and when did he convert to Orthodox?
To give up something means you had to have it first so when did he convert from Islam to Orthodox?
You made the statement so you have to now prove it.
So yes, it is time for the other side to be heard and it is great that it gets sealed into an official UN document. Enough of the manipulated crap that gets constantly repeated! Let the truth be known.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23
And how many countries do you think is going to criticize the work of the ICTY, it is basically of interest to the nations of the UNSC and countries of the former Yugoslavia and Europe. Do you think that Lebanon has been following the cases of the ICTY. The debate scheduled for UN members is on the morning session. By the time Serbia parades their group and then US, Russia, China, France, UK, Croatia, Germany, maybe Slovenia, Bosnia. Your document is going to contain more praise than criticism.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My point was that a number of Albanians do write about the injustice they faced - not during WW2 - but even before WW1! The year 1913 is constantly mentioned here in comments of Albanians as something that has to be taken in account. You write "its serbs who go on about WW2 all the time". I cannot understand why you are so one-eyed calling just Serbs pathetic bringing old times to the table. Will you admit that Albanians are as pathetic? Or you allow them some freedoms to be pathetic and don't call them by that name?
Tony Blair is responsible for war crimes, however he is not responsible for genocide. If you disagree, please tell us which ethnic group(s) he tried to have wiped out/ exterminated? And the there was nothing systematic about the deaths of civilians he is responsible for. Please do the same for David Cameron as well.
(Ian, UK, 27 March 2013 16:22)
He tried to wipe out Serbs during 1999 Kosovo war. Bombing was aimed at Serbs not at Albanians. Neither he tried to protect Serbs from KLA. Same thing happened from 1992-1995, Bosnian Serbs were bombed, never Croats or Bosnian Muslims (although he is not responsible for Bosnian war as he came to power in 1997). Remember, RTS building bombing during Kosovo war, one of the targets he personally picked.
...Like many other nations, mine has travelled through ... Jeremic told a gathering of small states in October, 2012, shortly after starting his one-year term....
Comical posting again from Ian.Do you know what the word genocide means?Well if you open a n Oxford dictionary you'll get it's definition (don't they have dictionaries in Bradistan?).genocide applies to the crimes committed by the likes of Blair and Cameron in the Middle East.
(Gotsefromohrid, 27 March 2013 15:36)
Of course I know what genocide is, I wasn't the one asking what genocide is; that was mick. Genocide is the intentional and systematic extermination of an ethnic group. I'm not the one who uses the term very loosely. I don't instantly scream the word "genocide" when someone is assualted unlike Ari Gold. Of course we have dictionaries in Islamabrad.
Tony Blair is responsible for war crimes, however he is not responsible for genocide. If you disagree, please tell us which ethnic group(s) he tried to have wiped out/ exterminated? And the there was nothing systematic about the deaths of civilians he is responsible for. Please do the same for David Cameron as well.
@Think about it
You have proven MICK=Not objective, not ICTY.
Yeah I understand Serbs where were fighting on all fronts in the war while other groups on one front so that 10srb-10alb-10cro is exaggerated.
But What justice do the Serbian victims get from this when almost no one is punished for the crimes caused to the Serbs..
I try to be objective but when i see that the Croatian Generals are and Haradinaj acquitted then who did commit the crimes if those people didn't do that?
@Ian
I know what genocide is I read your comment too quick..
I wanted to say that I also don't believe genocide took place that's why I brought it up.
It would be more fair if more non Serbs would have been punished for crimes against Serbs and other ethnic groups. For that I believe that the court failed. And for the NATO bombings too, who is going to pay for the damages caused in Serbia/MNE and Kosovo? That also happened on the territory of Former Yugoslavia. I think no one will pay for it.. And that what happened in former YU and all the wars caused after, was all in the agenda of the elite. (bilderberg/illuminati etc).
God only knows where you have plucked the figure of 8800 from, thats a first. The amount of bodies found cannot be verified to have all been muslims killed by Serb forces on 11/7/95 and some days after. Have you forgotten about Oric's crimes prior to 1995? I wonder how many of those dead ended up in mass graves around Srebrenica, but oh no as usual you decide to overlook any crimes against Serbs. You are a joke indeed.
I am not a fool! Ian, you bombed civilian targets, not only military ones. You also wanted to have ground invasion of Yugoslavia, perfect setting to commit genocide. Ian, you are not stranger to genocide and this is not the first one in history you committed.
(Mendo, 28 March 2013 13:43)
Yes Britain has been responsible for genocide, but not in the Balkans. So stop it with this self victimisation, no one else is buying it... well maybe the Russians.
Britain has one of the darkest histories in the world, I don't dispute that.
You're the sort of people that loosely uses the term "genocide"; just because civilians die during a war doesn't make it genocide, there will always be civilian casualties in war. War is not a nice thing.
There was no systematic attempt to exterminate all Serbs from FR Yugoslavia by NATO therefore there wasn't a genocide. Had there been a systematic attempt to exterminate all Serbs from FR Yugoslavia, then there would have been an attempted genocide.
I understand why you want the UK and NATO to be guilty of genocide, in some sort of sick way it'd make the attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s easier to digest; you think it'd erase some of the guilt. Trust me, if the UK and NATO had attempted a genocide in FR Yugoslavia, they'd have been significantly more civilian casualties than 3000; many of which were Albanians.
If I were you instead of finding excuses I would hang my head in shame and take the rest of Britain with you little man
(Gotsefromohrid, 27 March 2013 20:28)
What excuses? I am ashamed of Britain's involvement with the Iraq War. I've opposed it since day one.
The killings of thousands of people in Iraq,Afganistan and Libya were planned in advance and since the means justify the ends that constitutes genocide.The funny thing is the people on this site always use the term to describe the casualties of a civil war and at the same time are refusing even to condemn the torture and killings of millions of people of the countries above.This to me is sheer hypocrisy .Worse none has ever being brought to court for these crimes.
"God only knows where you have plucked the figure of 8800"
It's the figure of the International Commission on Missing Persons. You know... the people digging up the mass graves and doing DNA analysis since 1995. Never heard of them? Not surprising. You don't strike me as actually interested in finding out information.
Were these bones the of fallen fighters?
Maybe! And the fact that many of them were found in 3 different mass-graves only proves how crafty those fighters were! In the heat of battle, they buried themselves. Then they dug themselves up and re-buried themselves in a secondary grave. Then, they re-dug themselves into a tertiary grave (well, just some of them). And, all just to make Serbs look bad.
On which basis you can make claim like that? First you wanted to occupy whole Serbia but as the Serbs did not want to sign Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. After we did not let you occupy us, your intention was to remove Serbs completely from Kosovo which is called ethnic cleansing. And you were successful in that Ian, we can still see the results of your actions.
(Res, 28 March 2013 14:36)
What basis? On the basis of logical, reality, truth and sensibility!
According to the 1991 Yugoslavia there were 194,190 Serbs in Kosovo.
There are currently around 140,000 Serbs in Kosovo.
Had NATO wanted to ethnically cleanse Kosovo of Serbs, more than 54,000 Serbs would have left Kosovo; besides most Serbs left before NATO intervened in the Kosovo War. This is just a fraction compared to the the amount of Albanians which left Kosovo. There are half a million in Germany alone and another 200,000 in Switzerland and over 100,000 in Macedonia. NATO hasn't ethnically cleansed Kosovo, instead NATO countries have spent millions on returning people to Kosovo; including Serbs.
Please stop regurgitating nationalist propaganda and lies.
"not even the made up western figures of 7000 are enough for him"
it's 8800 not 7000. and they didn't make them up, they found the bones. They've identified 6500+ victims with DNA analysis and are still working on it. They identify about 2 bodies a day. You see, this work take a lot more time than it takes to type, "it didn't happen; it's a scam; it can't be true because it would hurt my feelings so please don't talk about it"
What about the killings of 10 thousand Iraqi Sunis in Basra Nd another 80 thousand in Falujah?What about the torture of many Iraqis?What about the deaths of nearly 100 Libyans?I guess those crimes do no count as genocide.
(Gotsefromohrid, 27 March 2013 17:42)
No they do not count as genocide. You clearly do not understand the term "genocide". Let me give you a definition of "genocide":
"The deliberate and systematic extermination of, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group".
At no point in the Iraq War did the US or UK attempt to exterminate a population on the grounds of "ethnicity, race, religion". Ethnicity, race, religion and national groups played no role in the UK's and US's bombing and occupation of Iraq. It isn't the amount that were killed that makes it genocide, it is the motive behind killing them that makes it genocide. The civilian casualties at the hands of British and American armed forces during the Iraq war were indiscriminate and collateral. The senior military leadership didn't care if there were civilian casualties and they certainly didn't care what race, ethnicity or religion they were. Iraqi civilians were not killed on the grounds of being an Arab, Kurd, Turkmen, Assyrian, Shi'a, Sunni or Christian ect. Had that been a motive and had their murders been systematic, then yes it would have been genocide.
The point here is that we *finally* get to hear the other side of the story and it then gets sealed into a UN document, for historians and academics to reference!
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Ha, ha, ha… I’m sure that “academic” Zoran will write a treatise on international justice based on that which will be studied in universities across the globe. My doubt though is why “academic” Zoran has to wait for a UN letterhead to do that! A UN letterhead can’t certainly transform a lie into a truth or viceversa…
----------
We have heard enough of the propaganda coming from one side and if it gets repeated then nothing new there, we've heard it all before.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Ok, so you’re saying that we’ll hear some NEW propaganda from the other side and that’s the interesting part of the event :)
----------
What is new is that we finally get to hear about the farce the NATO court really is and it should open the eyes of many people and countries.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
You mean the farce Russia court… According to what's sealed into UN documents, it was Russia which proposed the court, approved it and approved and continues to approve the judges.
lol @ Mendo claiming that the NATO action was "genocide".
$10 he'd say Srebrenica wasn't because not enough women were killed or the teenagers killed were potentially vulnerable to be conscripted as child soldiers so fair game.
The more pressure Jeremic gets and speaks about it, the more he elevates the importance of this day.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Here I fully agree with you. Vuk does have to show to the world the enormous pressure he is facing and his heroic efforts to resist the pressure. Since this event is being ignored, it’s the only way to give the impression that anybody cares beside Vuk. The more Vuk speaks about the pressure he is facing, the more that indicates that the event is being ignored. As any child, Vuk is in need of attention :)
----------
So yes, it is time for the other side to be heard and it is great that it gets sealed into an official UN document. Enough of the manipulated crap that gets constantly repeated! Let the truth be known.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Let me know if you have any documents for which you want the UN seal on them. I can seal a few of them for you and I guarantee that the world will recognize them as the word of God after that :)
The more pressure Jeremic gets and speaks about it, the more he elevates the importance of this day.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23
The ironic thing is Jeremic has said many times that he is under enormous pressure to cancel the debate. There is no evidence of the fact, the people that he is accusing of putting the pressure are slated to speak at the debate. He has mentioned a few people that originally signed up and then cancelled.
It sounds and I think it will be viewed as more of the now well known tactics of Serbia of the "boogey many behind the tree" claims.
You have to remember there is nothing that will come out of this debates other than some will make claims that can never be proven nor once the debate is over will they be asked to prove it.
Sometimes you have leaders who have to make real sacrifices for their people and then you have those that must create scenarios to make the impression that they have endured many sacrifices. Which is Jeremic?
He tried to wipe out Serbs during 1999 Kosovo war. Bombing was aimed at Serbs not at Albanians. Neither he tried to protect Serbs from KLA. Same thing happened from 1992-1995, Bosnian Serbs were bombed, never Croats or Bosnian Muslims (although he is not responsible for Bosnian war as he came to power in 1997). Remember, RTS building bombing during Kosovo war, one of the targets he personally picked. (Mendo, 28. mart 2013 07:45) Just as many Albanians were killed during NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia. It was not NATO's intention to edterminate the Serb population of Yugoslavia and the civilian casualties wers not systematic killimgs. NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
Ned TaylorThe killings of thousands of people in Iraq,Afganistan andin Libya were planned in advance and since the means justify the ends that constitutes genocide.The funny thing is the people on this site always use the term to describe the casualties of a civil war and at the same time are refusing even to condemn the torture and killings of millions of people of the countries above.This to me is sheer hypocrisy .Worse none has ever being brought to court for these crimes. (Gotsefromohrid, 28. mart 2013 00:41) The aim of the Iraq War was to find WMDs, regime change and natural resources. Please provide me with a reliable source which says the killing of civilians was "planned in advance" and/ or systematic. Yes torture is a war crime and Bush and Blair should be behind bars. Was 9/11 genocide according to your logic?
You were pushing mate for genocide but luckily US and UK did not get support from other NATO members, especially from French.You had a plan for ground invasion and Tony Blair was very keen on ground invasion. Just imagine what would you do to Serbian population if you managed to occupy us? Probably the same what you did in Iraq.
Only two countries which continued to use cluster ammunition outside Kosovo on civilian targets until the end of bombing were US and UK. Shame on you Ian! Genocide denier!
(Mendo, 28 March 2013 17:01)
You obviously do not understand what genocide is.
War is different from Genocide.
Also how can one deny something which never happened? You're the only person in the world who believes that Serbs are victim of a genocide by NATO.
Isn't it time for you to think of a new way to portray the Serb people as victims?
NATO's objective was to bomb Serbia because they did not accept military part of Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. Basically ground invasion. Than they started bombing with intention to commit genocide. Shame on you Ian! (Mendo, 28. mart 2013 21:25) Someone has escaped from the looney assylum.
Gotsefromohrid: I am no lawyer but I do know that genocide is not solely about statistics but about the intentions of the people doing the killing. The relevant 1948 convention describes the 'mental' and physical' elements required to be present in order for a crime to be deemed to be genocide. Did the allied forces intend to destroy in whole or part a national, ethnical (sic),racial or religious group? Were there measures to prevent births within the group and were children forcibly transferred from one group to another? The term genocide is thrown around willy nilly without a great deal of thought. That's not to say that I do not think that the acts to which you refer were genocide but I do not know enough about the intentions of those doing the killing to form this conclusion; neither, I suspect, do you.
I know what genocide is I read your comment too quick..
I wanted to say that I also don't believe genocide took place that's why I brought it up.
It would be more fair if more non Serbs would have been punished for crimes against Serbs and other ethnic groups. For that I believe that the court failed. And for the NATO bombings too, who is going to pay for the damages caused in Serbia/MNE and Kosovo? That also happened on the territory of Former Yugoslavia. I think no one will pay for it.. And that what happened in former YU and all the wars caused after, was all in the agenda of the elite. (bilderberg/illuminati etc).
(mick, 27 March 2013 20:23)
I agree that many crimes during the Yugoslav Wars have gone unpunished, many of which Serbs were victims of. I don't believe this to be the Court's failure, but I believe it to be due to a lack of evidence as well as the destruction of evidence. I think the case with Croats is that ICTY has not been able to prove that the crimes against Serbs came from the top senior officials down to the grass-roots soldiers. With Operation Storm there was most definitely crimes committed against Serbs, but it is one thing to prove they happened; it is another thing proving that Gotovina and Markac bare responsibility for the crimes which happened and that individual Croat soldiers didn't act of their own accordance.
I think NATO should compensate for civilian infrastructure destroyed such as housing, bridges ect but not for military targets.
Just as many Albanians were killed during NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia. It was not NATO's intention to edterminate the Serb population of Yugoslavia and the civilian casualties wers not systematic killimgs. NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 11:23)
I am not a fool! Ian, you bombed civilian targets, not only military ones. You also wanted to have ground invasion of Yugoslavia, perfect setting to commit genocide. Ian, you are not stranger to genocide and this is not the first one in history you committed.
It was not NATO's intention to edterminate the Serb population of Yugoslavia and the civilian casualties wers not systematic killimgs. NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 11:23)
On which basis you can make claim like that? First you wanted to occupy whole Serbia but as the Serbs did not want to sign Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. After we did not let you occupy us, your intention was to remove Serbs completely from Kosovo which is called ethnic cleansing. And you were successful in that Ian, we can still see the results of your actions.
NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 11:23)
NATO's objective was to bomb Serbia because they did not accept military part of Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. Basically ground invasion. Than they started bombing with intention to commit genocide. Shame on you Ian!
I understand why you want the UK and NATO to be guilty of genocide, in some sort of sick way it'd make the attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s easier to digest; you think it'd erase some of the guilt. Trust me, if the UK and NATO had attempted a genocide in FR Yugoslavia, they'd have been significantly more civilian casualties than 3000; many of which were Albanians.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 14:29)
May I ask right honorable gentleman what are those "attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s"?
I understand why you want the UK and NATO to be guilty of genocide, in some sort of sick way it'd make the attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s easier to digest; you think it'd erase some of the guilt. Trust me, if the UK and NATO had attempted a genocide in FR Yugoslavia, they'd have been significantly more civilian casualties than 3000; many of which were Albanians.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 14:29)
You were pushing mate for genocide but luckily US and UK did not get support from other NATO members, especially from French.You had a plan for ground invasion and Tony Blair was very keen on ground invasion. Just imagine what would you do to Serbian population if you managed to occupy us? Probably the same what you did in Iraq.
Only two countries which continued to use cluster ammunition outside Kosovo on civilian targets until the end of bombing were US and UK. Shame on you Ian! Genocide denier!
I doubt this guy will mention the Serbian army marching into Srebrenica and slaughtering 15000 of Bosnians finest or ethnically cleansing 1000000 Albanians from Kosova forcing them to enter Albania proper
I can't wait for this debate. I can't wait for Serbia and a load of right wing dictatorships to talk about "justice" and "fairness". Despite the fact that the ICTY has statistically being in the favour of indicted Serbs. Far more Serbs have been acquitted/ had their Indictment withdrawn by the ICTY compared to Croats and Bosniaks. This is a list of Serbs:
Mirko Babic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Nenad Banovic: Indictment withdrawn 10 April 2002
Zdravko Govedarica: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Dragan Kondic: Indictment withdrawn 5 May 1998
Predag Kostic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Zoran Marinic: Indictment withdrawn 3 October 2002
Milan Milutinovic: Acquitted 26 February 2009
Nedeljko Paspalj: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Milan Pavlic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Momčilo Perišić: Acquitted 28 February 2013
Milutin Popovic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Draženko Predojevic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Miroslav Radic: Acquitted 27 September 2007
Željko Savic: Indictment withdrawn 8 May 1998
Pero Skopljak: Indictment withdrawn 19 December 1997
Ivan Šantic: Indictment withdrawn 19 December 1997
Dragomir Šaponja: Indictment withdrawn 5 May 1998
Nedjeljko Timarac: Indictment withdrawn 5 May 1998
Milan Zec: Indictment withdrawn 26 July 2002
Even Radovan Karadzic was aquitted of one count of genocide in June last year. Plenty of Croats and Bosniaks are behind bars!
"Jeremić is facing a backlash from governments and international jurists who feel he has abused his position to advance his narrow national interests."
Jeremic's abuses of his offices are obvious. If he would be serious with what he says he would have chosen a recent event, e.g. the 11th July - the day of the Srebrenica genocide. The cancellation of high-ranking UN personnel definitely comes from the fact that there is no tolerance for those abuses any more. But I recommend to face that clown with simple facts and counter his primitive provocations. This day is perfect to explain in detail why it was inappropriate to use the Mrs na Drinu genocide song. But also to go in detail what happened in the last Balkan war 1989-99 so that to thwart Jeremic's real attempt, to rewrite history. At least in September that charade will be over and the UNGA has his basic dignity back.
You Albanians & Anti-Serbs amaze me with your stupidity.
You think he is the biggest clown but he is in a position to lead a debate at the United Nations General Assembly. Hmmm, I'm not quite sure on the clowns you Albanians bring to your little parties but I'm sure they don't attend events by the UNGA.
Actually I'm certain they don't participate in events organised by the UNGA because there is no such state as Kosova.
Kosovo on the other hand will be at the debate as part of Vuk because it's his blood ;)
Sorry poor loser Albanians, you might get on the big stage one day, but it certainly won't include the name KosovA.
Is your lot any better? First of all, all of the BRICS countries support Serbia's stand. It is simply incorrect to pretend as if only isolated rouge nations are on Serbia's side. And you mention right wing dictatorships but who are you to say anything at all? The U.K. spends money on "defense" as if it still is trying to maintain an empire. The U.S. and its NATO allies regularly engage in military conflict all over the world without any threat on their own citizens.
Trust me you guys are not much better. In the UK its simply more sophisticated than an outright dictatorship but in reality you have UKIP and you have the rest of the establishment that agrees on 99.99% of issues.
"not even the made up western figures of 7000 are enough for him"
it's 8800 not 7000. and they didn't make them up, they found the bones. They've identified 6500+ victims with DNA analysis and are still working on it. They identify about 2 bodies a day. You see, this work take a lot more time than it takes to type, "it didn't happen; it's a scam; it can't be true because it would hurt my feelings so please don't talk about it"
Is your lot any better? First of all, all of the BRICS countries support Serbia's stand. It is simply incorrect to pretend as if only isolated rouge nations are on Serbia's side. And you mention right wing dictatorships but who are you to say anything at all? The U.K. spends money on "defense" as if it still is trying to maintain an empire. The U.S. and its NATO allies regularly engage in military conflict all over the world without any threat on their own citizens.
Trust me you guys are not much better. In the UK its simply more sophisticated than an outright dictatorship but in reality you have UKIP and you have the rest of the establishment that agrees on 99.99% of issues.
(Ari Gold, 27 March 2013 12:36)
Looks like I hit a nerve. Please keep your comments relevant to the article.
Around 140.000 deaths on all sides is not genocide!
200.000 Serbs killed in Bosnia WW2= Genocide 20% of the population
And Serbs of Croatia reduced by more then 50% from 1.2-1.3mil to 600.000 in WW2 1941-1945 that is an example of genocide!
Here a list of the 161 indicated persons http://www.icty.org/sections/TheCases/KeyFiguresoftheCases
But of those 161 most are Serbs, and of the people sentenced look at the difference of imprisonment what Serbs get and what non Serbs get..
ICTY= Not objective!
Around 140.000 deaths on all sides is not genocide!
200.000 Serbs killed in Bosnia WW2= Genocide 20% of the population
And Serbs of Croatia reduced by more then 50% from 1.2-1.3mil to 600.000 in WW2 1941-1945 that is an example of genocide!
Here a list of the 161 indicated persons [link]
But of those 161 most are Serbs, and of the people sentenced look at the difference of imprisonment what Serbs get and what non Serbs get..
ICTY= Not objective!
(mick, 27 March 2013 14:04)
If you don't know what genocide is, then why did you bring it up?
Did genocide happen in the former-Yugoslavia? I don't believe it did, but attempted genocide did happen.
Yes many Serb civilians were killed in an attempted genocide in Bosnia during WW2, but the ICTY doesn't deal with WW2.
Yes 161 were indicted by the ICTY and yes Serbs form the biggest ethnic group of those who were idicted. This is because A) They were involved in the most wars B) They committed the most war crimes.
How would you have it? Every time a Serb is indicted, a Bosniak and a Croat must also be indicted just to make sure it is "fair"? And if a Serb is senteced to 25 years imprisonment, a Bosniak and a Croat must also be sentenced to 25 years impisonmnet? Would that be "fair" and "objective"?
The point here is that we *finally* get to hear the other side of the story and it then gets sealed into a UN document, for historians and academics to reference! We have heard enough of the propaganda coming from one side and if it gets repeated then nothing new there, we've heard it all before.
What is new is that we finally get to hear about the farce the NATO court really is and it should open the eyes of many people and countries. The more pressure Jeremic gets and speaks about it, the more he elevates the importance of this day.
So yes, it is time for the other side to be heard and it is great that it gets sealed into an official UN document. Enough of the manipulated crap that gets constantly repeated! Let the truth be known.
"One quarter of our population perished in the First World War, at enormous cost to our development. In the Second World War, close to a million Serbs fell to defeat the scourge of fascism,"
excpet of course, that the Hague Tribunal has nothing to do with WW2. do you want leniency for Serb suffering 70 years ago? such victim mentality, its pathetic
Comical posting again from Ian.Do you know what the word genocide means?Well if you open a n Oxford dictionary you'll get it's definition (don't they have dictionaries in Bradistan?).genocide applies to the crimes committed by the likes of Blair and Cameron in the Middle East.
(Gotsefromohrid, 27 March 2013 15:36)
Of course I know what genocide is, I wasn't the one asking what genocide is; that was mick. Genocide is the intentional and systematic extermination of an ethnic group. I'm not the one who uses the term very loosely. I don't instantly scream the word "genocide" when someone is assualted unlike Ari Gold. Of course we have dictionaries in Islamabrad.
Tony Blair is responsible for war crimes, however he is not responsible for genocide. If you disagree, please tell us which ethnic group(s) he tried to have wiped out/ exterminated? And the there was nothing systematic about the deaths of civilians he is responsible for. Please do the same for David Cameron as well.
Read this carefully, if an Albanian is proven to ave corraborated in criminal activity, he/she should get the maximum penalty for that act. I do not want priveliged treatement for my people. its serbs who go on about WW2 all the time. we get it, you suffered a lot at the hand of Nazis, it still doesn't justify your conducts in the 90's
Jeremic hijacking UN to make a name for himself in his home country. The internationals are begining to see that it was a mistake to let this clown in that position. With this debate he has dashed any hope he may have to become the UN General Secretary.
...Like many other nations, mine has travelled through ... Jeremic told a gathering of small states in October, 2012, shortly after starting his one-year term....
"One quarter of our population perished in the First World War, at enormous cost to our development. In the Second World War, close to a million Serbs fell to defeat the scourge of fascism," Foreign Policy quoted him as saying.”
The quality of those losses is very high ! Most of them has sacrificed or fell down because of the atrocities against the Great partisan movement as the only real resistance on the continent outside the USSR before 1944. We Russians value it more than the others. Especially the resistance of 1941-42. All other partisan movements in Europe were not massive. Most of their achievements were invented after the war and helped us little. Only 3 peoples fought in Europe before 1944 the English plus some of the Yugoslavian peoples and us. This is the truth. 17 countries sent troops above 1 division ( 18 000 ) against the USSR. So you cannot blame only Adolf. And Serbs were in an even worse position in the heart of Europe. I feel pity for those who died in Auschwitz or Maidanek but I feel much more compassion and gratefulness for those who died on the battlefield. The first were just victims while the last were heroes to be remembered for centuries. So Serbs should take it easy when Europe “forget” those heroes. Enough is that we both know the truth.
It is clear that Jeremic is 'using' his position but it is a stretch to say he is abusing it. He is entitled to schedule this debate and it can come as no surprise to those who supported his election that he has done so. He is perhaps treating some very intelligent people as idiots by not being honest about his reasons for wanting this debate and the timing thereof but I would have thought that they would have been better served appearing in the chamber and having their say than declining to attend. The work of international tribunals ought to come under regular scrutiny not least as there are continuing atrocities being committed in all parts of the world and such tribunals/courts are likely to be very busy in the future. Let him have his day in the sun and if he embarrasses himself then it's his own reputation and possibly Serbia's that is on the line not that of the UN itself.
Mr Jeremic is one of the bravest men on this planet. He fights impossible odds against a giant system designed to promote only their agenda and one that refuses to recognize the truth. God Bless you!
I am not aware of any Albanian going on about the Balkan War left right and centre. its Serbs who always bring up WW2 in relation to anything. frankly, its boring. yes WW2 was horrible for the Serbs, it was horrible for a lot of others too, it doiesn't justify the grotesque acts that followed in the mid 90s.
There was 150000 of Bosnian's finest and 10000000 illegal aliens of Albanian ethnicity.
Didn't you learn how to round up your numbers at the University of Prishtina?
(Another Canadian Serb, 27 March 2013 13:30)
You're just another ultra-nationalist in the Serb Diaspora. Why aren't Serbs in Serbia as nationalist as the Serb Diaspora? Let me guess, your host country doesn't deem you an "illegal alien"? However what I can tell is that Canada has an amazing education system. I didn't realize there were 10 million Albanians in total across the world, but apparently there was 10 million 'illegal aliens of Albanian ethnicity' in Yugoslavia. You learn something new every day.
I believe that Vuk Jeremić's is self serving his own interests with this non-biding "debate", with the intention of releasing our national "heroes" from behind bars. I believe he should use his role as UN General Assembly President on achieving the return of refugees acordd the Balkans regardless of ethnicity. Instead Vuk Jeremić is starting a debate which will be another "who did what" debate and will achieve nothing.
ICTY= Not objective!
(mick, 27 March 2013 14:04)
You have proven MICK=Not objective, not ICTY.
Just because the court indicts and convicts more Serbs than anyone else shows that Serbia bears the brunt of responsibility of the crimes committed. It would be ludicrous if the court approached it by saying ok we convicted 10 Serbs so now we HAVE to convict 10 Croatians and 10 Albanians.
Comical posting again from Ian.Do you know what the word genocide means?Well if you open a n Oxford dictionary you'll get it's definition (don't they have dictionaries in Bradistan?).genocide applies to the crimes committed by the likes of Blair and Cameron in the Middle East.
You might want to scratch the Serb part from your signature!!!
Why are Serbians from Serbia being punished if they aren't as nationalistic as a Canadian Serb?
I have a couple of questions for you I'm a Serb, a Croat and a Muslim.
Are Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Karadzic ethnic Serbs or Montenegrins?
Also, would Ratko Mladic be an ethnic Serb or an ethnic Bosnian?
(Another Canadian Serb, 27 March 2013 15:25)
I was born in Serbia to a Serb mother, that makes me more of a Serb than you'll ever be.
"Why are Serbians from Serbia being punished if they aren't as nationalistic as a Canadian Serb?" Because some Serbs from Serbia did some terrible things in the 1990s, as did Croats and Muslims.
"Are Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Karadzic ethnic Serbs or Montenegrins?" They are ethnic Serbs from Montenegero. Montenegero is to Serbia what Austria is to Germany.
"Also, would Ratko Mladic be an ethnic Serb or an ethnic Bosnian?" An ethnic Serb from Bosnia.
Ethnicties are not defined by political/ administrative borders.
So yes, it is time for the other side to be heard and it is great that it gets sealed into an official UN document. Enough of the manipulated crap that gets constantly repeated! Let the truth be known.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23
And how many countries do you think is going to criticize the work of the ICTY, it is basically of interest to the nations of the UNSC and countries of the former Yugoslavia and Europe. Do you think that Lebanon has been following the cases of the ICTY. The debate scheduled for UN members is on the morning session. By the time Serbia parades their group and then US, Russia, China, France, UK, Croatia, Germany, maybe Slovenia, Bosnia. Your document is going to contain more praise than criticism.
I know what genocide is I read your comment too quick..
I wanted to say that I also don't believe genocide took place that's why I brought it up.
It would be more fair if more non Serbs would have been punished for crimes against Serbs and other ethnic groups. For that I believe that the court failed. And for the NATO bombings too, who is going to pay for the damages caused in Serbia/MNE and Kosovo? That also happened on the territory of Former Yugoslavia. I think no one will pay for it.. And that what happened in former YU and all the wars caused after, was all in the agenda of the elite. (bilderberg/illuminati etc).
(mick, 27 March 2013 20:23)
I agree that many crimes during the Yugoslav Wars have gone unpunished, many of which Serbs were victims of. I don't believe this to be the Court's failure, but I believe it to be due to a lack of evidence as well as the destruction of evidence. I think the case with Croats is that ICTY has not been able to prove that the crimes against Serbs came from the top senior officials down to the grass-roots soldiers. With Operation Storm there was most definitely crimes committed against Serbs, but it is one thing to prove they happened; it is another thing proving that Gotovina and Markac bare responsibility for the crimes which happened and that individual Croat soldiers didn't act of their own accordance.
I think NATO should compensate for civilian infrastructure destroyed such as housing, bridges ect but not for military targets.
I understand why you want the UK and NATO to be guilty of genocide, in some sort of sick way it'd make the attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s easier to digest; you think it'd erase some of the guilt. Trust me, if the UK and NATO had attempted a genocide in FR Yugoslavia, they'd have been significantly more civilian casualties than 3000; many of which were Albanians.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 14:29)
You were pushing mate for genocide but luckily US and UK did not get support from other NATO members, especially from French.You had a plan for ground invasion and Tony Blair was very keen on ground invasion. Just imagine what would you do to Serbian population if you managed to occupy us? Probably the same what you did in Iraq.
Only two countries which continued to use cluster ammunition outside Kosovo on civilian targets until the end of bombing were US and UK. Shame on you Ian! Genocide denier!
Nobody answered Bam Bam !?!
"I doubt this guy will mention the Serbian army marching into Srebrenica and slaughtering 15000 of Bosnians finest or ethnically cleansing 1000000 Albanians from Kosova forcing them to enter Albania proper(Bam Bam, 27 March 2013 10:41) "
Finest fighters who use to come out to attack Serbian villages and massacre civilians in the hills even at Christmas and go back to change cloths and mix in Srebrenica in order to look like non combatants.(The major conclusion from Morillon's testimony was this: The fall of Srebrenica in 1995 was the "direct reaction" to the massacres of Bosnian Serbs by Naser Oric's forces in 1992-1993. Morillon acknowledged that Oric's troops had committed war crimes in eastern Bosnia. Morillon personally witnessed the exhumation of the bodies of Bosnian Serb civilians and soldiers who had been tortured, mutilated, and executed. He saw with his own eyes the Serbian villages that had been burned to the ground in the Srebrenica pocket)
On the Albanians that had left when the Nato bombing started,they returned more numerous than when they had left (note that every civilian no matter the nationality flee combat zones and aerial bombing. BamBam,either you do it on purpose or you lack some education so here it is for you:
What about the killings of 10 thousand Iraqi Sunis in Basra Nd another 80 thousand in Falujah?What about the torture of many Iraqis?What about the deaths of nearly 100 Libyans?I guess those crimes do no count as genocide.
What about the killings of 10 thousand Iraqi Sunis in Basra Nd another 80 thousand in Falujah?What about the torture of many Iraqis?What about the deaths of nearly 100 Libyans?I guess those crimes do no count as genocide.
(Gotsefromohrid, 27 March 2013 17:42)
No they do not count as genocide. You clearly do not understand the term "genocide". Let me give you a definition of "genocide":
"The deliberate and systematic extermination of, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group".
At no point in the Iraq War did the US or UK attempt to exterminate a population on the grounds of "ethnicity, race, religion". Ethnicity, race, religion and national groups played no role in the UK's and US's bombing and occupation of Iraq. It isn't the amount that were killed that makes it genocide, it is the motive behind killing them that makes it genocide. The civilian casualties at the hands of British and American armed forces during the Iraq war were indiscriminate and collateral. The senior military leadership didn't care if there were civilian casualties and they certainly didn't care what race, ethnicity or religion they were. Iraqi civilians were not killed on the grounds of being an Arab, Kurd, Turkmen, Assyrian, Shi'a, Sunni or Christian ect. Had that been a motive and had their murders been systematic, then yes it would have been genocide.
If I were you instead of finding excuses I would hang my head in shame and take the rest of Britain with you little man
(Gotsefromohrid, 27 March 2013 20:28)
What excuses? I am ashamed of Britain's involvement with the Iraq War. I've opposed it since day one.
This dude is a clown! Vuk go back to your roots. You gave up your religion for a political career in Serbia.
(Bridge, 27 March 2013 14:37)
===================================
When was he ever a Muslim and when did he convert to Orthodox?
To give up something means you had to have it first so when did he convert from Islam to Orthodox?
You made the statement so you have to now prove it.
Gotsefromohrid: I am no lawyer but I do know that genocide is not solely about statistics but about the intentions of the people doing the killing. The relevant 1948 convention describes the 'mental' and physical' elements required to be present in order for a crime to be deemed to be genocide. Did the allied forces intend to destroy in whole or part a national, ethnical (sic),racial or religious group? Were there measures to prevent births within the group and were children forcibly transferred from one group to another? The term genocide is thrown around willy nilly without a great deal of thought. That's not to say that I do not think that the acts to which you refer were genocide but I do not know enough about the intentions of those doing the killing to form this conclusion; neither, I suspect, do you.
I do not want priveliged treatement for my people. its serbs who go on about WW2 all the time. we get it, you suffered a lot at the hand of Nazis, it still doesn't justify your conducts in the 90's
(Nikolle, 27 March 2013 16:30)
--
You don't want privileged treatment but you got it. Your criminals are being protected by bigger criminals in the US. As for the conduct in the 90s, it was provoked by KLA terrorism. I'm not saying Serbs were angels but neither side can claim the moral high ground.
It was not NATO's intention to edterminate the Serb population of Yugoslavia and the civilian casualties wers not systematic killimgs. NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 11:23)
On which basis you can make claim like that? First you wanted to occupy whole Serbia but as the Serbs did not want to sign Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. After we did not let you occupy us, your intention was to remove Serbs completely from Kosovo which is called ethnic cleansing. And you were successful in that Ian, we can still see the results of your actions.
NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 11:23)
NATO's objective was to bomb Serbia because they did not accept military part of Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. Basically ground invasion. Than they started bombing with intention to commit genocide. Shame on you Ian!
@Think about it
You have proven MICK=Not objective, not ICTY.
Yeah I understand Serbs where were fighting on all fronts in the war while other groups on one front so that 10srb-10alb-10cro is exaggerated.
But What justice do the Serbian victims get from this when almost no one is punished for the crimes caused to the Serbs..
I try to be objective but when i see that the Croatian Generals are and Haradinaj acquitted then who did commit the crimes if those people didn't do that?
@Ian
I know what genocide is I read your comment too quick..
I wanted to say that I also don't believe genocide took place that's why I brought it up.
It would be more fair if more non Serbs would have been punished for crimes against Serbs and other ethnic groups. For that I believe that the court failed. And for the NATO bombings too, who is going to pay for the damages caused in Serbia/MNE and Kosovo? That also happened on the territory of Former Yugoslavia. I think no one will pay for it.. And that what happened in former YU and all the wars caused after, was all in the agenda of the elite. (bilderberg/illuminati etc).
The killings of thousands of people in Iraq,Afganistan and Libya were planned in advance and since the means justify the ends that constitutes genocide.The funny thing is the people on this site always use the term to describe the casualties of a civil war and at the same time are refusing even to condemn the torture and killings of millions of people of the countries above.This to me is sheer hypocrisy .Worse none has ever being brought to court for these crimes.
God only knows where you have plucked the figure of 8800 from, thats a first. The amount of bodies found cannot be verified to have all been muslims killed by Serb forces on 11/7/95 and some days after. Have you forgotten about Oric's crimes prior to 1995? I wonder how many of those dead ended up in mass graves around Srebrenica, but oh no as usual you decide to overlook any crimes against Serbs. You are a joke indeed.
Tony Blair is responsible for war crimes, however he is not responsible for genocide. If you disagree, please tell us which ethnic group(s) he tried to have wiped out/ exterminated? And the there was nothing systematic about the deaths of civilians he is responsible for. Please do the same for David Cameron as well.
(Ian, UK, 27 March 2013 16:22)
He tried to wipe out Serbs during 1999 Kosovo war. Bombing was aimed at Serbs not at Albanians. Neither he tried to protect Serbs from KLA. Same thing happened from 1992-1995, Bosnian Serbs were bombed, never Croats or Bosnian Muslims (although he is not responsible for Bosnian war as he came to power in 1997). Remember, RTS building bombing during Kosovo war, one of the targets he personally picked.
The point here is that we *finally* get to hear the other side of the story and it then gets sealed into a UN document, for historians and academics to reference!
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Ha, ha, ha… I’m sure that “academic” Zoran will write a treatise on international justice based on that which will be studied in universities across the globe. My doubt though is why “academic” Zoran has to wait for a UN letterhead to do that! A UN letterhead can’t certainly transform a lie into a truth or viceversa…
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We have heard enough of the propaganda coming from one side and if it gets repeated then nothing new there, we've heard it all before.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Ok, so you’re saying that we’ll hear some NEW propaganda from the other side and that’s the interesting part of the event :)
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What is new is that we finally get to hear about the farce the NATO court really is and it should open the eyes of many people and countries.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
You mean the farce Russia court… According to what's sealed into UN documents, it was Russia which proposed the court, approved it and approved and continues to approve the judges.
The more pressure Jeremic gets and speaks about it, the more he elevates the importance of this day.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Here I fully agree with you. Vuk does have to show to the world the enormous pressure he is facing and his heroic efforts to resist the pressure. Since this event is being ignored, it’s the only way to give the impression that anybody cares beside Vuk. The more Vuk speaks about the pressure he is facing, the more that indicates that the event is being ignored. As any child, Vuk is in need of attention :)
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So yes, it is time for the other side to be heard and it is great that it gets sealed into an official UN document. Enough of the manipulated crap that gets constantly repeated! Let the truth be known.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23)
Let me know if you have any documents for which you want the UN seal on them. I can seal a few of them for you and I guarantee that the world will recognize them as the word of God after that :)
Just as many Albanians were killed during NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia. It was not NATO's intention to edterminate the Serb population of Yugoslavia and the civilian casualties wers not systematic killimgs. NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 11:23)
I am not a fool! Ian, you bombed civilian targets, not only military ones. You also wanted to have ground invasion of Yugoslavia, perfect setting to commit genocide. Ian, you are not stranger to genocide and this is not the first one in history you committed.
I am not a fool! Ian, you bombed civilian targets, not only military ones. You also wanted to have ground invasion of Yugoslavia, perfect setting to commit genocide. Ian, you are not stranger to genocide and this is not the first one in history you committed.
(Mendo, 28 March 2013 13:43)
Yes Britain has been responsible for genocide, but not in the Balkans. So stop it with this self victimisation, no one else is buying it... well maybe the Russians.
Britain has one of the darkest histories in the world, I don't dispute that.
You're the sort of people that loosely uses the term "genocide"; just because civilians die during a war doesn't make it genocide, there will always be civilian casualties in war. War is not a nice thing.
There was no systematic attempt to exterminate all Serbs from FR Yugoslavia by NATO therefore there wasn't a genocide. Had there been a systematic attempt to exterminate all Serbs from FR Yugoslavia, then there would have been an attempted genocide.
I understand why you want the UK and NATO to be guilty of genocide, in some sort of sick way it'd make the attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s easier to digest; you think it'd erase some of the guilt. Trust me, if the UK and NATO had attempted a genocide in FR Yugoslavia, they'd have been significantly more civilian casualties than 3000; many of which were Albanians.
"do you want leniency for Serb suffering 70 years ago? such victim mentality, its pathetic"
That makes me to ask you what's the time limit for understanding the Albanian suffering that doesn't prove for Albanian victim mentality and that isn't pathetic? How old sufferings should not be mentioned anymore, how recent they must be to be still useable?
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My point was that a number of Albanians do write about the injustice they faced - not during WW2 - but even before WW1! The year 1913 is constantly mentioned here in comments of Albanians as something that has to be taken in account. You write "its serbs who go on about WW2 all the time". I cannot understand why you are so one-eyed calling just Serbs pathetic bringing old times to the table. Will you admit that Albanians are as pathetic? Or you allow them some freedoms to be pathetic and don't call them by that name?
Ned TaylorThe killings of thousands of people in Iraq,Afganistan andin Libya were planned in advance and since the means justify the ends that constitutes genocide.The funny thing is the people on this site always use the term to describe the casualties of a civil war and at the same time are refusing even to condemn the torture and killings of millions of people of the countries above.This to me is sheer hypocrisy .Worse none has ever being brought to court for these crimes. (Gotsefromohrid, 28. mart 2013 00:41) The aim of the Iraq War was to find WMDs, regime change and natural resources. Please provide me with a reliable source which says the killing of civilians was "planned in advance" and/ or systematic. Yes torture is a war crime and Bush and Blair should be behind bars. Was 9/11 genocide according to your logic?
"God only knows where you have plucked the figure of 8800"
It's the figure of the International Commission on Missing Persons. You know... the people digging up the mass graves and doing DNA analysis since 1995. Never heard of them? Not surprising. You don't strike me as actually interested in finding out information.
Were these bones the of fallen fighters?
Maybe! And the fact that many of them were found in 3 different mass-graves only proves how crafty those fighters were! In the heat of battle, they buried themselves. Then they dug themselves up and re-buried themselves in a secondary grave. Then, they re-dug themselves into a tertiary grave (well, just some of them). And, all just to make Serbs look bad.
lol @ Mendo claiming that the NATO action was "genocide".
$10 he'd say Srebrenica wasn't because not enough women were killed or the teenagers killed were potentially vulnerable to be conscripted as child soldiers so fair game.
On which basis you can make claim like that? First you wanted to occupy whole Serbia but as the Serbs did not want to sign Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. After we did not let you occupy us, your intention was to remove Serbs completely from Kosovo which is called ethnic cleansing. And you were successful in that Ian, we can still see the results of your actions.
(Res, 28 March 2013 14:36)
What basis? On the basis of logical, reality, truth and sensibility!
According to the 1991 Yugoslavia there were 194,190 Serbs in Kosovo.
There are currently around 140,000 Serbs in Kosovo.
Had NATO wanted to ethnically cleanse Kosovo of Serbs, more than 54,000 Serbs would have left Kosovo; besides most Serbs left before NATO intervened in the Kosovo War. This is just a fraction compared to the the amount of Albanians which left Kosovo. There are half a million in Germany alone and another 200,000 in Switzerland and over 100,000 in Macedonia. NATO hasn't ethnically cleansed Kosovo, instead NATO countries have spent millions on returning people to Kosovo; including Serbs.
Please stop regurgitating nationalist propaganda and lies.
You were pushing mate for genocide but luckily US and UK did not get support from other NATO members, especially from French.You had a plan for ground invasion and Tony Blair was very keen on ground invasion. Just imagine what would you do to Serbian population if you managed to occupy us? Probably the same what you did in Iraq.
Only two countries which continued to use cluster ammunition outside Kosovo on civilian targets until the end of bombing were US and UK. Shame on you Ian! Genocide denier!
(Mendo, 28 March 2013 17:01)
You obviously do not understand what genocide is.
War is different from Genocide.
Also how can one deny something which never happened? You're the only person in the world who believes that Serbs are victim of a genocide by NATO.
Isn't it time for you to think of a new way to portray the Serb people as victims?
NATO's objective was to bomb Serbia because they did not accept military part of Rambouillet Accords which would give NATO unhindered right of passage for its troops on whole Yugoslav territory and immunity for NATO troops to Yugoslav law. Basically ground invasion. Than they started bombing with intention to commit genocide. Shame on you Ian! (Mendo, 28. mart 2013 21:25) Someone has escaped from the looney assylum.
I understand why you want the UK and NATO to be guilty of genocide, in some sort of sick way it'd make the attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s easier to digest; you think it'd erase some of the guilt. Trust me, if the UK and NATO had attempted a genocide in FR Yugoslavia, they'd have been significantly more civilian casualties than 3000; many of which were Albanians.
(Ian, UK, 28 March 2013 14:29)
May I ask right honorable gentleman what are those "attempted genocides by the Serbs in the 1990s"?
The more pressure Jeremic gets and speaks about it, the more he elevates the importance of this day.
(Zoran, 27 March 2013 11:23
The ironic thing is Jeremic has said many times that he is under enormous pressure to cancel the debate. There is no evidence of the fact, the people that he is accusing of putting the pressure are slated to speak at the debate. He has mentioned a few people that originally signed up and then cancelled.
It sounds and I think it will be viewed as more of the now well known tactics of Serbia of the "boogey many behind the tree" claims.
You have to remember there is nothing that will come out of this debates other than some will make claims that can never be proven nor once the debate is over will they be asked to prove it.
Sometimes you have leaders who have to make real sacrifices for their people and then you have those that must create scenarios to make the impression that they have endured many sacrifices. Which is Jeremic?
He tried to wipe out Serbs during 1999 Kosovo war. Bombing was aimed at Serbs not at Albanians. Neither he tried to protect Serbs from KLA. Same thing happened from 1992-1995, Bosnian Serbs were bombed, never Croats or Bosnian Muslims (although he is not responsible for Bosnian war as he came to power in 1997). Remember, RTS building bombing during Kosovo war, one of the targets he personally picked. (Mendo, 28. mart 2013 07:45) Just as many Albanians were killed during NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia. It was not NATO's intention to edterminate the Serb population of Yugoslavia and the civilian casualties wers not systematic killimgs. NATO's objective was to get Yugoslavia to cease military operations in Kosovo and this was achieved. It is daft to claim that NATO's bombing of Yugoslacia was 'genocide'. Don't be a fool.
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