Albanian schools teach about "territorial injustices"

Albanian nationalism is being fueled and will be their downfall. One day they will be negotiating with Turks about the rightful ownership of rump Turkey.

It looks like the next balkan war is brewing for the next generation.

(Mirel from Albania, 22 March 2013 16:18)

Instead of you boasting about the invisible Albanians in the Balkans what about we start talking about the visible Greeks who built all the cities known today as Southern Albania.For example:Epidamnos, or Dyrrhachion, Argyrokastro,Vlora,Appolonia,Chimera,Agioi Saranda to name a few.

Albanians should be more than happy with what they've managed to steal from their neighbours but if they continue with their wild nationalist dreams they will definitely lose their loot.

The only thing on their minds is stealing more and more surrounding terrritories while lying and saying it's theirs. What a joke!

no Zoran, that is never going to happen. for what its worth, yes this is shameful and pathetic. there's a lot of bull when it comes to what Albanians know about their past. truth is, the feeling of being Albanian is not even 200 years old. Albanians used to identify in religious terms, so they were either Catholics, Orthodox or Muslims. its thanks to the Arberesh community in Italy and as well as the Albanian diaspora in Romania, Egypt and Italy that these religious barriers were overcome and Albanians rallied around a common language. whilst there is enough evidence to suggest that there were Albanians in Montenegro in the 1800's this does not mean that those territories belonged to Albania because there was no Albania to belong to. same for Janina, Shkup and the rest.
however, I will argue that coming to terms with the past is a Balkan necessity. there's a lot of bull in Serbian history books too. after all, you're taught that the majority of people in Kosova in 1912 were Serbs, and that is rubbish. some serbs still hold the weird belief that even as late as 1942, Kosova was still inhabited predominantly by Serbs. you'll notice that I have not mentioned anything as recent as what happened in Vukovar and Bosnia. there are also books in Greece that have the weird view, that all of Southern Albania is Greek, because we all know, you can't be an Orthodox Albanian!

Albanian nationalism is being fueled and will be their downfall. One day they will be negotiating with Turks about the rightful ownership of rump Turkey.
(Zoran, 22 March 2013 15:42)

LOL the one time I'll openly side with the Turks on rightful ownership of land and history :)

All kidding aside, I've always regarded Albania about 20 - 30 years behind everyone else. Nice to see education in Hoxhastan is enjoying the blissful ignorance of 1990s nationalism. I wonder if in their discussion of an unjust history for a state that never existed before it was created by international committee in 1912 that they at least discuss the injustice of Northern Epiriote Greeks living in Albania? Eh, probably not :)

What complete idiots!!!!

This is good news.

I can't wait for albanians to start a war. That is a truly great opportunity for countries to claim back land illegally occupied by albania.

Go ahead, start a war you morons! Give us the chance we are looking for!

Albanians arrived in the Balkans with the Turks. What they claim as "Albanian" land is really nothing other than former Ottoman possessions.

In their day the Ottoman Turks were a powerful military force which carved an empire out of other people's lands.

The ancestors of modern-day Albanians were nothing more than petty thieves and cutthroats who followed the Turkish army and occupied lands cleansed of their original inhabitants.

Without NATO protection, Albanians would soon find themselves back in Anatolia.

All of Serbia is Albanian land...it's that simple. You should be thanking us for allowing you to have your own country in the Balkan!
(Dardania, 22 March 2013 16:57)

I want the same drugs you are on right now!!!! You have to be really high on drugs right now, or you are truly insane!!!!!!

There was no injustice in giving towns such as Podgorica, Vranje, Pristina, Mitrovica or Medvedja to Slav people, given that the names of these towns are clearly of Slavic origin and the towns were founded by Slavs.

pretty soon albanians wont live in the balkans if they keep talking,because albania was not their lands because albanians were from the area of azerbajan and then moved in the balkas where the greeks and serbs and bulgarians gave them that land they live on today called albania.so they should watch what they say and teach.

There must be a mistake with this map.I was with the impression that all the continent of Europe descended from the master race called Albanians.Even the Turks are laughing,Hoxha is still alive.

"How and when did these areas secede from the geopolitical space of Albania?"

Geopolitical space of Albania? A new funny expression. Albanians must be really ashamed that an Albanian state only exist since 1912. Another symptom is that some of them claim to be ancestors 'Illyrians' or 'Dardanians' - but serious historians know that these are only unproven claims.

Who needs to worry about Al Queda when we have albanian schools being taught this?

This is good news.

I can't wait for albanians to start a war. That is a truly great opportunity for countries to claim back land illegally occupied by albania.

Go ahead, start a war you morons! Give us the chance we are looking for!
(Scepticism, 22 March 2013 16:31)

I do not know if you a true Serb, but if yes, no wonder that you have no clue about your neighboroughs. Albanians never started a war. They get the best from the situation. In that sense they are more clever than you. You pushed them with your stupid mithology, they came back. You made a deal with Atatur and pushed 1 million to Turkey, they extended their families. You send Rankovic to kill them, they become 2 million. You cancelled the autonomy, they bought all your land. You created Milosevic and followed him as Germans Hitler, today you know where you are. Do not hope that Albanians will provoke you to make your frustrated nation happy. You can find another population nation to start a war. E.g. Sanzak or Vojvodina. We learned from the history and from you. Better a clever enemy than a stupid friend. Unforunately for you Serbs were never a clever enemy. We are patient and flexible and demographically we will get what is the map

Our time will come, GOD WILLING.
(Avni, 22 March 2013 16:29)

LOL according to your mythology, you've been a compact ethnic and national identity for more than 2 thousand years. I'd say "whenever you're ready" but that would actually require half of you to get off the internet and the other half to come up with a plan other than drawing maps and making up stories of greatness based on those maps.

We should make a parkinglot out of Albania. A backward people who only want trouble.

"The whole Planet Naboo was, is, and will be part of Albania."

I was incorrect, that's Tatooine and not Naboo. Tatooine is under wise leadership of the Hutt mafia.

The whole Planet Naboo was, is, and will be part of Albania.

Our time will come, GOD WILLING.

@Leonidas

The problem with u greeks is that u assume that every orthodox is greek.U r wrong!
I am orthodox and I am Albanian and have been albanian at least since 1600 when one of my ancester decided to make the family tree.

The cities that u mentioned they were founded by greeks, but they were kicked out by illyrians under queen Teuta.

Anyway, we albanians and greeks have a lot of things in common and there is no need to fight each other.Even some of your great leaders(Venizelos,Pangalos) have mentioned an alliance with Albania would be the best option for Greece,since we r the oldest people in Balkans.

Albanian speakers gave a great cotribution in Greece independence,even today the Olympic Medals winners u got were from Albania,Manjani,Xhelili,Dimas etc.

Unfortunately,u choose serbs for alliance,which have nothing in common except the religion, pushing us toward Italy and Turkey.

Anyway,the all problems started when the international border commmision decided that several region were the majority of population speaks albanian to be under Serbia and Greece.
All those cities the article mentioned Albanians are 80-90%.
The Proclamation of Independence in 1912 was sign by the representatives from Preveza to Presheva.
Greek minority in Albania,my friend I can tell u with 100% certenty that there are 90 villages,and 10 villages with fyrom minority,and 3-4 villages with serbian/montenegrin minority.
If u call them majority sorry but u r wrong.

There must be a mistake with this map.I was with the impression that all the continent of Europe descended from the master race called Albanians.Even the Turks are laughing,Hoxha is still alive.
(Gotsefromohrid, 22 March 2013 17:42)

You may have missed the small print that B92 put by the image. It says: the map is not related to the article but we are putting it in here anyway.

All of Serbia is Albanian land...it's that simple. You should be thanking us for allowing you to have your own country in the Balkan!

I heard in some US American schools creationism is taught, too. I'm asking myself what is more ridiculous.

"Go ahead, start a war you morons! "

we've learned from Serbs in Krajina that starting a war is never a good thing :-)

... too believe that Greeks and Albanians have a lot in common and the Greek Arvanites are the link between the two people. Velizelos and Pangalos (an Arvanite himself) were in favor of a good neighboring relationship between the two countries and made a lot of concessions to Albania during the 1920s creating bitterness among the members of the greek minority in Albania...

Yes thats true,they sign 9 agreement with Albania aiming an patrnetship or a confederation heleno-illyric or -greek-albanian ( I have read those in Pangalos' memoirs).

Unfortunately Pangalos was 1 year in office and the next gonverment abolished 8 out of 9 agreements,leaving both countries to square one.So dont blame Albania on this.Read Pangalis' memoirs.

As for URSS we kicked them out of Vlora but it was Cold War.U were american puppets at the time,now u r with body in EU and with head in Russia.

C'mon Thanasis,u know that the confederation with Greece was brilliant idea started from Ali Pasha to Pangalos.
Unfortunately u choose serbs over Albanians,so we had to choose anti serb powers.
This is the Balkan,is not only albanians who are looking for Big Powers,Serbia is looking to Russia and China,Bulgaria,Croatia to USA,Greece to Rusia etc.
U can see in this page how many time serb comentators are saying: We r going to kill u all albanians, once Russia is stronger...

What a discovery!lol
I have leant those, since the 4rth grade about 35 years ago,in Albania.Everything except Cameria in Greece.
What has been changed now is the importance of the lessons and the depth of those historical periods in the book.When I was in school those have been mentioned but were not really important,because according to Hoxha communism will triumph and we will leave in peace with the neighbores.The most inmprtant part of the history was National Libration War 1939-44 in WWII which Hoxha come in power,the second was George Kastriot Scanderbeg period,and the third was Proclamantion of Independence but mentioning only Ismail Qemali and Isa Boletini and few others because the proclamation of independence act was orge by Hoxha.
Now those historical periods,sich as proclamation of Independennce and the events in Balkanic wars are being leraned with seriosity and are the most important part of the book, after Geogre Kastrioti Skanderbeg period which is the most important part of our history.Also has been included Cameria which was not before.

delon

If those cities were Albanian they would've had Albanian names historiography and archaeology and the simple reason is Albanians weren't around when they were built.There is ample evidence in wikipedia.

Mirel

If one takes into consideration any credible census of the Albanian population Muslims make the 58% mark whereas the Christian Orthodox the 6% one which is translated around to 170000 people.One would like think that these figures could be credible if one sums up the numbers of Greeks,Bulgarians,Serbs and Fyromians living in Albania.

Greece and Albania have nothing in common apart from the common borders.An alliance with Albania? You're having a laugh are you not?Your other claim Albanians being the oldest nation in the Balkans in not worth commenting because such a claim exists only in Albanians deluded minds and nowhere else.
Maybe a read on the Muslims settling in the Balkans during the rule of the Ottomans Murad IV and SuleimanII could help you to learn more about your race.

Did you ask Dimas or the others and told you they were Albanians?Why don't you look at his family tree.The Greek minority, though smaller because of emigration to Greece ,still exists and I have seen it myself.

BTW I am very impressed that you managed to trace your family tree more than 400 years ago.The Ottomans must've kept pretty accurate records on the Albanians probably because they knew where they came from.

Leonidas,

What are you talking about,what the lazy as" Greek build in Albania?!
what proves do you have that those were build from Greeks,other than those buildings are "Greek style"?!
You can clame those for greek as much as the USA can clame all the skyscrapers around the world as American build and American land.You guys are insane,Greek this Greek that,Greek skata.
Those kind of the buildings were in fashion at that time all over the region.
According to you logic(sic) all the nations of the world that use Latin alphabet have anything to do with Italy?

There was no injustice in giving towns such as Podgorica, Vranje, Pristina, Mitrovica or Medvedja to Slav people, given that the names of these towns are clearly of Slavic origin and the towns were founded by Slavs.
(Karl

Karl, sine you know so much, tell what Podogorica was called before it became knos as Podgorica?

I know. You don't know the answer. Google Birziminium or Doclea. You might learn something new.

I too believe that Greeks and Albanians have a lot in common and the Greek Arvanites are the link between the two people. Velizelos and Pangalos (an Arvanite himself) were in favor of a good neighboring relationship between the two countries and made a lot of concessions to Albania during the 1920s creating bitterness among the members of the greek minority in Albania. Unfortunately Albania decided to become a puppet state of Italy rather than have a good relationship with its neighbors. This is what Albanians have been doing best throughout their history: Side with the more powerful and become their stooges. First it was the Ottoman Empire, then Italy and Germany, then the Soviet Union and now the USA. They don't want free and emancipated Balkans with peace and common respect between its peoples. They want foreing interventions in their favor. I'm afraid that Albanians cannot escape this pattern and this comes as no surprise. So if they think that the whole balkan peninsula belongs to them there is only way, to start a crusade and conquer it. But on their own this time.
As for you, "Mirel from Albania", what am i to suppose about you? That you're a 45 year old Albanian who uses LOL in his writings?

THANASIS
Who gives you the right to tell “US” Albanians who to side with?
Do you know the expression Money Talks?
You shouldn't talk right now Thanasis

Who is wondering about this? This Albaninas are related with the idea of "Greater Albania", they know what they want.

Now I have seen it all, but perhaps the lads at the Education Minister in Albania have missed out Australia, New Zealand and perhaps Indonesia or why even Japan.
Keep up the good work soon you’ll out do the Croats who ruled all of the Ukraine and Poland but decided to live on the Adriatic so abandoned their empire for a simpler life in the Balkans.
Is it any wonder Albanians and Croats are the laughing stocks of this world?

To serbs and greeks here,a story:in a dinner we had serbian greek and albanian ambasadors.Serbian A said our country has the most powerful army,the brightest universities of balkan,we resists to germans,to russiato usa etc,etc .Greek A said our country has the brightest history,our culturecovers the world,our army resists to turks and germans etc etc .and both of them looking at albanian A with some contempt asked and what has done your country.The albanian A after a moment just said: my country just resisted to the countries that had the most powerful culture,the most powerfull armies,the brightest universities,the most etc etc.
This is quite remarquable for my small country ,don't you think so to resist to your powerfull and bright countries he added..
Konica.

we've learned from Serbs in Krajina that starting a war is never a good thing :-)
(Nikolle, 22 March 2013 17:35)
--
Not true, you learnt from "Kosova" that starting a war is a good thing. That is why your nationalism is being fueled. You provoked a war in FYROM and then in the Presevo valley and are now looking to expand.

One day you will overstep the boundary and you master won't be there to help. For every one of you, who believes there won't be a war, there are 100 nationalists who are preparing to unite "Albanian" lands. It reminds me of the mid to late 80s when nationalism spread across the former YU.

Albania, you are the least of Serbia's concern. You guys are weak and did not back your fellow Albanians during the kosovo war. Your lucky, grand master TITO granted you guys the privilege of having your own country.

Read a little Thanasis comments and enlight yourself about history.

(Mirel from Albania, 22 March 2013 23:42)

I don't think Thanasis is saying something different than I do.I've made myself clear on many occasions when the subject of Albanian-Illyrian connection comes up.I have said that Arbanites and Arberesh are Christians that once inhabited Illyria and then fled into Greece and Italy when Muslim Albanians arrived in the area and tried to assimilate them.Arbanites and Arberesh are simply not Albanians and thus their explicit hostility towards them.

Professor Wilkes,Albanian historians Dr Kaplan Resuli,Dr Adrian Qosi, Adrian Vebiu and Austrian linguists Stefan Schumacher and Joachim Matzinger all confirm what I've said above.ALBANIANS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ILLYRIANS.Even the Albanians favourite historian Malcolm finally admits that he cannot explain how Albanians came into Balkans.

Mirel have you ever wandered as to why there isn't any Illyrian inscription written in Albanian? Because Albanians weren't there.
Did you ask as to why all toponyms in Kosovo and Norhern Albania have Serbian names?The answer is Albanians simply weren't there.You just managed to construct your language 100 years ago.The whole charade of Albanian ancient glorification was nothing more than a communist ploy invented by Hoxha to legitimatise the land theft from his neighbours.

@Nikolle

There's no reason for you to get upset just because we disagree. So you put nationality above all other things. That makes you a nationalist and that's no medal of honor you know. If you ask me i'd rather have faith in a religion and unity through its church rather than faith in race, blood or nation, which is also a label if you ponder upon it. Religion may not be as important nowadays, but when we talk about the Middle Ages and the Ottoman period it was all that mattered. People back then were not interested in national identities, which had not even been forged as we know them today, and has it ever occured to you that maybe they were wiser than us? Nationalism is a very recent phenomenum in this part of the planet. It is a twisted western notion that has literally been planted to our region but as is seems it has poisoned our lives permanently.
As for the Muslims of Thrace, they haven't shown any signs of hostility towards Greece but they have been subjected to so much brainwashing and propaganda by the turkish consulate, that they could be a threat in the future. Not because they're Muslims but because they've been made to believe that they're Turks. If you ask them what they feel they will say Turks and that's what worries me.

Well Pangalos was not exactly in office because noone elected him there. He was a dictator and an admirer of Mussolini and so were his successors. The years 1922-36 were a period of political turmoil in Greece with continuous military regimes overthrowing one another. So i wouldn't be a big fan of Pangalos if i were you.
Mirel from your comment it seems as though Albania moves according to Greece's choises. You say that we abolished the treaties of 1926 so you sided with Italy, we chose the Serbs so you chose the anti-Serbs. I don't think that's the case. I think that the albanian political elite throughout the years is anti-Greek and purposedly cultivates sentiments of hatred for Greeks among the local population. Greece's choises is just the excuse they need.
I'm not so sure that a greek-albanian confederation would be such a great idea. A confederation between Greeks and Tosks maybe would work. But a confederation with Gheks and other Muslim Albanians would be a total disaster. It would be like inviting back Turkey and allowing it to control our political life as it does in Bulgaria.
To sum up i think that the Christian Albanians have been and still are friends of Greece, but the Muslim Albanians are Greece's worst enemies, worse even than the Turks. Whenever the sultans wanted to punish Greeks for their uprisings they sent the Albanians to do some looting. The word Turkalavanos still has a very negative meaning in my country.

So what really have you done more than others in the region in the last 2000 years??
(delon, 23 March 2013 01:59)

Let me think. Well we had an empire that lasted for 1000 years, which was of course multiethnic like any other empire but predominantly greek since anybody who wanted to be anybody in Byzantium had to have a greek education and be an Orthodox. We gave religion,culture and an alphabet to the Slavs through the missions of Cyril and Methodius. We revolted against the Ottomans and we were the first balkan nation to gain an independent state, thus showing the way to the other enslaved balkan nations. We expanded our borders by fighting in the battlefields in 2 Balkan and 2 World Wars and always on the winning side. In more recent years we have two Nobel prizes for litterature. Those are some of our humble achievements. Nothing much really.

History for Balkan Albo start in April 1042yr.
Today primitive albos dream is over and think all Balkan is his.

When the War beginns in the Middle East,
Albania will come for all Territories they think is Theirs.
At the same Time,
Hungary will come for Vojvodina,
Croatia for Bosnia,
and Austria will support the efforts of Croatia with military adventures into Bosnia and Montenegro.

All of those Northern Countries will be Supported by Germany who will enter into Polen to cover the back of Hungary.

Arn.Sweden.

what the hell is it with this Christian Albanians thenasis? there are Albanians period. christian, muslim, shaman, satanist, jew, pagan, atheist, deist, whatever....we choose not to be labelled in religious terms. we put our language and nationality above supernatural beliefs. out of curiosity do you view greek muslims as a threat to Greece? are you now going to swerve in the dangerous road of linking nationality with religion? well excuse me, maybe you are happy to discriminate against your fellow Muslim Greek citizens, we on the other hand, don't want that

Ahhhh, yes....the Albanians and the Albanian empire. The biggest and greatest empire in Europe to leave absolutely ZERO evidence behind of it's existence! Only they know about it. Oh, but don't worry, the answer to why there is no evidence of their European empire is they were Illyrians. No artifacts, no signs of anything Albanian in those regions. Eh, who needs little things like that, just make it up.

"
Maybe a read on the Muslims settling in the Balkans during the rule of the Ottomans Murad IV and SuleimanII could help you to learn more about your race. "

Albanians are Europeans by their DNA and their language, which is Indo-European, like almost every other language in Europe. (It's more closely related to the Romance languages than to Slavic.)

The Ottomans moved some Circassians into Kosovo after they were ejected from around the Black Sea by the Russians, which may be the source of the common Serbian claim that the Albanians came from somewhere far, far away.

OK Zoran, let me rephrase that. we've learned from Serbs of Krajina that its never good to start a war you're destined to lose

...To sum up i think that the Christian Albanians have been and still are friends of Greece, but the Muslim Albanians are Greece's worst enemies, worse even than the Turks. Whenever the sultans wanted to punish Greeks for their uprisings they sent the Albanians to do some looting. The word Turkalavanos still has a very negative meaning in my country.
(thanasis, 23 March 2013 11:37)...

...There is no other nation on Earth which the neighbores hate more than Albanians.Greeks dont consider Christaian Albanians as Christian,Turks dont consider Mulsim Albanians as Mulsims.May be Albanians are something between Christian and Muslim or neither Christian nor Muslim....
Lord Bayron.

"An Orthodox Albanian,can kill 10 greeks to save a Muslimor Catholic Albanian,an Muslim Albanian can kill 10 turks to save a Orthodox or Catholic Albanian."
U know damn well this sentence from a serbian PM in 1800s, is true.
As for the political elite that hates greeks,u know that most of political elite are Christian Orthodox.They come up with Natyral Albania Concept,Albanians schools,Albanian army etc,from Jani Vreto 1878 to today Koco Danaj.They fought greeks in 1916 in Korca where greeks were kicked out by albanian army most of them orthodox...

Leonidas,

Then , where do Albanians come from then? There is no record of an Albanian exodus, and we speak a unique ancient, indo-european language . Any other claim you make is pure speculation. All above mentioned scientist, agree that we are a ancient nation , they only disagree t on Illyrian origin. Furthermore, for any of them that deny the Illyrian origin, there are 2 that claim the opposite. If you care I can list them. There also others that deny Hellenic origin of Greeks, by stating that today Greeks only adapted their language. Also pointing out that Albanian language was spoken routinely accross the Greece in mid 19th century, although there was no Albanians school. Who knows? Should I claim that you were not there neither? You guys gotta stop the nonsense.

To all Greek and Serb commentators,

I understand that you think we don't belong here, and we should disappear. Also , you're used to Albanians being second class citizens. This days are over. There are almost 6 million Albanians in Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia , and Montenegro. And they are as free as they have ever been. Albanian economy is growing fast, Albania is member of NATO, and soon to become a EU candidate country. Major infrastructure objects are being build, making it easier than ever to traveling to Kosovo, Macedonia and Montenegro. You either get along with us in peace and harmony, or get over it. We will assert our existence and fight for our rights.

Greece and Albania have nothing in common apart from the common borders.
(Leonidas, 22 March 2013 22:04)

Than probably u have no idea about Albania.
U probably are greek pondes or somewhere far from Epiri.In the other words u r not greek,just u have become greek in 1922.
Read a little Thanasis comments and enlight yourself about history.
As for the census,the people who were couned were the people who ACTUALLY live in Albania.Several members of my family ,for example, didnt counted because they were in USA at the time when cesus was conducted.170000,orthodox ,taking in count that greeks have left in Greece since 1990,and 10 villages of fyroms live less than 3000 people,it seems OK to have 160000 Albanian orthodox.

Leonidas ,

Do you really want to go on the game of city names?
Ok. What Athens mean in Greek ,or even Greece itself as a name, what does it mean ?! What Corinthi ,joannina ,Egumenica, Preveza ... should I go further?
What Belgrade means in Serbian language?

Albanians new comers in the Balkans?,others don't think so.Older than all our naybours.

You can see that Alb. language is formed at least 5000 years ago in the Balkans.

Thanasis ,

What stooges are you talking about?
What you Greeks really did ?!
Let's start from Roman times,you fall to them,we fall much later than you.Constandinopolis was founded from Romans ,exacly,Constandine Illyrian origin,and not from Greeks.
The Bizantine times no one know who was who,you Greeks were calling yourselves Romios,till Germans and English told you that you should call yourself Greeks .

In the otoman times you fall first ,Albanians were last to fall to them.

WWI and WWII both our countries were invided from same fascists and nazis.
In modern times you love Russia we love USA.We have reason to love USA,don't know your reason for Rusia.We trying to join EU,wich you have already.
So what really have you done more than others in the region in the last 2000 years??

The fact that the Albanian pale of settlement includes most of Kosovo, Medvedja, Ulcinj, the villages of Rumija, and Macedonia from Kumanovo through Skopje and Tetovo to Struga is hardly news.
In our age of nation states, sooner or later these areas will have to be included in a larger Albanian state.
Or the states in question will have to remove the Albanians from their territory.
Serbia failed to do this in 1999, and Macedonia in 2001. Presumably, Montenegro does not have the stomach to do so either.
Only a question of time before a larger Albanian state comes into being.

...Even the Albanians favourite historian Malcolm finally admits that he cannot explain how Albanians came into Balkans. ...

@ Leonidas,
This is true,none can explain how Albanians come into Balkan,none.
Why?
Because they didnt come,they were there all the time together with greeks.

are you still persisting with that nonsense Leonidas? now the Arberesh don't have Albanian roots either? interesting. ask your fellow Arvanites why is it that I, a Gheg Albanian, understand their language without EVER having studied it. after all if we're two completely distinct ethnic groups, this would be reflected in language. it isn't. as for the Arberesh, well, its too stupid a comment to even bother to correct.

well thenasis, you choose to interlink nationality with faith. good for you. we don't do that for a very simple reason, we're of three different faiths. there's catholics among us, orthodox among us and muslims. this is the reason why Albanian Nationalism has always been secular. we hold our language dear and we unite around that. when Albanians of the Orthodox faith started to develop a national conscience, you had Greek priests do everything to try and suppress it. Patriarch Joachim IV of Constantinople even threatend to excommunicate anyone found reading and writing Albanain. of course, I assume you are familiar with the Hudson incident, where an Orthodox Greek priest refused to perform the funeral rites for Kristaq Dishnica, who was of course an Albanian Orthodox but who had fought on the side of the Albanian National Movement. finally Fan Noli told them to shove it and established the Albanian Orthodox Church, which is the best thing that they have done.

are you still persisting with that nonsense Leonidas? now the Arberesh don't have Albanian roots either? interesting. ask your fellow Arvanites why is it that I, a Gheg Albanian, understand their language without EVER having studied it. after all if we're two completely distinct ethnic groups, this would be reflected in language. it isn't. as for the Arberesh, well, its too stupid a comment to even bother to correct.
Nikolle, 23 March 2013 21:22)

It's you Nikolle that gets agitated and resorts to stupid comments.Albanians have moved to Greece,Italy,Germany and many other countries in the last 20 years yet they manage to speak the local language without being to school. That doesn't make them Greeks,Italians.Germans etc.What's your point?

The same thing happened with Muslim Albanians when they moved to your present lands and mixed with the indigenous populations.

I have said to you before the Arvanites I know in Greece find it very insulting to call them Albanians.

Brandon

The Greeks have been visible for the last 5000 years through history,archaeology,religion and culture and I can tell you that I understand,read and write the ancient Greek language as well as the modern which of course is based on the ancient one.

To all Greek and Serb commentators,

I understand that you think we don't belong here, and we should disappear. Also , you're used to Albanians being second class citizens. This days are over. There are almost 6 million Albanians in Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia , and Montenegro
=================================

Quantity does not make quality. And yes, it would be great if you would just leave and go back to Albania. If you were decent law abiding citizens when in other countries then nobody would feel this way, but the way you people behave who wants you around?

Then , where do Albanians come from then? There is no record of an Albanian exodus,
====================================
There is no record of anything about Albanians full stop.
You make a lot of claims but there is no proof of anything.

Pegy,
Repeating things over and over doesn't make them true. Obviously if all Serbs have the same prejudices toward Albanians, the reconciliation between both nations will be long and difficult. In the end of the day you have to come to terms with the reality in the ground. Albanians will not disappear, and have exercised their right for self-determination. You might not like it, but you'll have to get over it.

Skender - You're a joke buddy. You and your Albanian cohorts can't settle anything with swords, or should I say without your guardian angel's (US) swords. You guys can't even properly issue license plates in Kosovo.

The truth of the matter is you are a people searching for an identity. You claim to be of Iliryian origin, but there is no ethno-anthropological evidence that supports this claim. You claim that you are the indigenous people of Kosovo, but the historical architecture there is Serbian, even as you try to destroy all that you can.

Albanians are made up of 3 different religions, Muslim, Orthodox & Catholic. The Orthodox & Catholic Albanians of the Balkans quickly and enthusiastically converted to Islam during the Ottoman occupation so as to make their lives easier. Thus selling your souls and becoming Ottoman subjects led to the overwhelming Albanian population in the Balkans becoming Muslim.

A further look at Albanian history reveals an eager alliance with Nazi Germany during WWII, again joining the occupiers, rather than fighting Hitler's butchers. And had the Serbs & Montenegrins not been so generous after the Balkan War of 1912, the country of Albania would not exist today.

So your friends in Albania can rewrite all the history books they want, the civilized world will continue to teach the truth. I can't say that I blame you though, with a history like yours, I'd try to change it too. LOL

What a joke.

The most recent studies in genetics show that the Albanian people, who claim are the descendents of these mythological illyrians, are for about 85% are immigrants (Neolithic and Bronze age) from everywhere but Europe, and just 15% are true European (Mesolithic Europeans). You people are from all over the 3 continents, but are definitely not from illyrian descent.

The Serbian people are for about 40% true European (Mesolithic Europeans), 45% are Neolithic/Bronze age immigrants (BC) from all over but Europe, and just 15% are Balto-Slavic immigrants (AD).

So you have as much claim to these lands as Serbs have - None!

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

...Arbanites and Arberesh are simply not Albanians and thus their explicit hostility towards them.
@ Leonidas,

R u sure that Arberesh are hostile toward Albanians,because I know that they have been in the frontline of Albania couse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0xqSHZIwO0

U have hunderets pro Albanian videos made from Arberesh.They lobby in USA for Albanian couse.

Arvanites is a different story,they were braiwashed by greek church,so most of them are more greeks than greeks.Some of them who manage to say that Arvanites and Albanians are the same people ,got killed or vanished.

...when Muslim Albanians arrived in the area and tried to assimilate them...
So according to your logic,Muslim Albanisn come in Albanis and ended up speaking the same language as Arvanites and Arberesh???!!!There is no logic here.

Why is so difficult to accept that Muslim Albanisn were Christian till 200 yeears ago?There are thousands of documents where Christian Albanians,in order to pay less taxes converted to Muslim.There is no difference between an Muslim,orthodox and catholic Albanian.Probably for a greek point of view is difficult to undersand.

Go in Tirana and see that Muslim Albanians are even more emancipated than others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp-ckHwAQKg
90% of people in this video are Muslim.

Lastly,the Ethnic Albani and Illyrian-Albanian story didnt start with Hoxha but in early 1800s.

"Not because they're Muslims but because they've been made to believe that they're Turks."

this is what a lot of Greeks try and do in the South of Albania, where the Orthodox Albanians live, they try to 'Hellenize" them. of course not the beautiful hellenistic principlez of Socrates, but the modern hellenizm the one that has been hijacked by mad moronic priests

@Nikolle
You need to cool off a little because i detect a lot of anger from your part lately. Maybe you should take a break from being in the B92 and commenting on a daily basis since it's not good on your nerves. Noone is obliged to agree with you, you know, especially when you resort to insults. Mad moronic priests? How would you feel if i started offending the clergymen of your religion (whatever that is)? Anyway regain your calm and we'll chat again in the future. I'm sure we can find something to agree upon.

@Mirel
How can the Arvanites have been brainwashed by the greek church? Those people were already Orthodox when they arrived here in the 14th century. No Greek clergyman persuaded them to convert to Christianity. And it was for that reason that they were so well assimilated in the greek society becoming an inseparable part of it. You and Nikolle have this tendency to see the greek orthodox church behind all evil. I can assure you that it's not like that and if you don't believe me, ask your compatriots who have lived in Greece on how they've been treated by the greek church. The greek church helps anybody in need regardless of colour, ethnicity or religion and that's why it has received criticism by right-wing parties like Hrysi Avgi who claim that all of the church's charity goes to Albanians and Paqistanis. So if both Albanian and Greek nationalists criticize the greek church i'm sure that the greek church is doing the right thing.

my belief system? i don't have one, i'm an atheist. insult all clerics for all you're worth, you really won't be offending me. for what its worth, i have nothing against the greek church. i look at it with the same eyes that i do any other faith, wrong and bull, but some people believe it and i have to live with it. my objection to religious meddling, especially amongst Albanians is that it can be a major source of division for the simple reason that we are a nation of three faiths. if the religious concentrated on what their supposed mission is, to salvage souls it'd be all and good. they don't do that however, they want to dictate in politics.

What's wrong with our (Albanian) version of historical facts? What we teach our pupils is our business and Belgrade should mind it's own business. When it comes to media munipilation and brainwashing it's citizens - Serbia takes the grand prize. What took place with Kosova in the last 20 years was a form of regurgitation of sorts or for lack of a better word a form divine comeuppance. Stolen Albanian towns and lands should be returned to the rightful owners if future problems wish to be avoided. This way of thinking is not a form of expansionism, aggresion, or an attempted Albanian land grab of sorts but just a plea to right the historical wrongs that my people suffered and their offsprings still suffer due to cruel discrimination. We either use pens to resolve these matters or we shall use swords.

"I have said to you before the Arvanites I know in Greece find it very insulting to call them Albanians."

so now we should take peoples sensitivities into account when we discuss ethnology and language? how offended Arvanites are by their association with albanians does not matter to me. there is a very clear and demonstrable linguistic link between Albanians and Arvanites. this is why scholars today classify Arvanite as a spinoff of the Albanian language. let them dislike it till kingdom come, the connection is still there. of course this does not make Arvanites Albanian anymore than than it makes me a Greek, but there is no doubt that there is a link between the two.
now, are you actually claiming that Muslim Albanians spoke a different language to Christian Albanians? are you actually saying that?

Christian Arvanites? dear me, so to you, the fact that I can understand more than 90% Arvanite, without ever having studied it, is just sheer dumb luck. how about the Arberesh in Italy? I can understand an awful lot of their language too. dumb luck again? seriously you have weird ideas. what about the Catholic Albanians in the Malesia region of Montenegro, Northern Albania, Dukagjini region of Kosova, are they a separate ethnic group from the Muslim Albanians? or are they, what i insist they are, the same ethnic group but simply a Catholic one? deer me, you really write an awful lot of nonsense.

"There were no Christian Albanians but Christian Arvanites.I do not believe that Albanians were converted to Islam by the Ottomans but they were already converted centuries earlier prior to their arrival in the Balkans."

You're still left with the fact however that the Muslim Albanians still speak the same language as the Christian Albanians. so, who copied whom do you think? why did those Muslim Albanians assimilate with the Christian Albanians and not the Turks (linguistically speaking) ? i mean, i have read an awful lot of crap about the origin of my people, but yours is the best

Leonidas,
Even those two linguists, state in their theory that Albanian language is a distinctive Indo-European language originated around 2000 BC, somewhere in Northern Balkans. They base it on the influence Albanian has had in surrounding language. They also state that all other Balkan nations have created myths that link them to ancient civilizations in the area, in order to create a claim in the territory. Now, why should you disseminate such a misinformation. Furthermore considering that this is not an exact science, why should you take their theory as the sole one. The true scientists have their theories based on the evidences they find . In your case it seems that you have stated the theory first, and now you're trying the evidences that support it, even with the cost of making them up. You are certainly in title to your opinion, but not to your own facts. Worse, it's a shame that you have to resort to this methods.
Here are the links:
http://learnalbanianonline.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/the-albanian-ancient-long-live-the-legacy-of-a-dead-language/
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/austrian-scholars-leave-albania-lost-for-words

have read an awful lot of crap about the origin of my people, but yours is the best
(Nikolle, 24 March 2013 23:56)

My crap cannot be compared with the Albanian one about the Illyrian origin of Albanians everywhere.We are Illyrians’ and that’s that,no discussion allowed,no evidence presented and anybody daring to express a different point of view is crucified.

Yes Muslim Albanians like all the the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the Balkans were not indigenous but settlers from Turkey thus the millions of Albanians in Turkey.

now, are you actually claiming that Muslim Albanians spoke a different language to Christian Albanians? are you actually saying that?
(Nikolle, 24 March 2013 12:01)

There were no Christian Albanians but Christian Arvanites.I do not believe that Albanians were converted to Islam by the Ottomans but they were already converted centuries earlier prior to their arrival in the Balkans.The same argument applies to thousands of Muslims from Greece who were sent to Turkey during the population exchanges.They were not indigenous Greeks but settlers from Turkey.

We can continue to argue about the Albanian language for days but the evidence to date produced by the Austrian linguists Stefan Schumacher and Joachim Matzinger does not link the Albanian language to the ancient people of the Balkans and therefore one would deduce it's a newcomer.Furthermore,the fact that virtually all toponyms in North Albania and Kosovo are in fact Serbian re-enforces that view.

I forgot to reply to your claim about place names being slavic. naming of places says nothing about demographics, it only says who the ruling people were, northing else. why else is Constantinople called Instanbul? use logic next time

"My crap cannot be compared with the Albanian one "

you are absolutely right, it can't be compared, yours is an awful lot of worse.

Instead of finding out the " Nationalisem " in Albanian high schools
call to your conscience and roots to know who the native of Balkan are not only in the north but also in the south since the time of prehistory when there were no country and borders.You might happens to discover your own history as well and if you are intellectual enough you will know the great injustice (criminal) some to the others of same race in name of religion.Arbani

All of Serbia is Albanian land...it's that simple. You should be thanking us for allowing you to have your own country in the Balkan!

Our time will come, GOD WILLING.

pretty soon albanians wont live in the balkans if they keep talking,because albania was not their lands because albanians were from the area of azerbajan and then moved in the balkas where the greeks and serbs and bulgarians gave them that land they live on today called albania.so they should watch what they say and teach.

Albanian nationalism is being fueled and will be their downfall. One day they will be negotiating with Turks about the rightful ownership of rump Turkey.

no Zoran, that is never going to happen. for what its worth, yes this is shameful and pathetic. there's a lot of bull when it comes to what Albanians know about their past. truth is, the feeling of being Albanian is not even 200 years old. Albanians used to identify in religious terms, so they were either Catholics, Orthodox or Muslims. its thanks to the Arberesh community in Italy and as well as the Albanian diaspora in Romania, Egypt and Italy that these religious barriers were overcome and Albanians rallied around a common language. whilst there is enough evidence to suggest that there were Albanians in Montenegro in the 1800's this does not mean that those territories belonged to Albania because there was no Albania to belong to. same for Janina, Shkup and the rest.
however, I will argue that coming to terms with the past is a Balkan necessity. there's a lot of bull in Serbian history books too. after all, you're taught that the majority of people in Kosova in 1912 were Serbs, and that is rubbish. some serbs still hold the weird belief that even as late as 1942, Kosova was still inhabited predominantly by Serbs. you'll notice that I have not mentioned anything as recent as what happened in Vukovar and Bosnia. there are also books in Greece that have the weird view, that all of Southern Albania is Greek, because we all know, you can't be an Orthodox Albanian!

"Go ahead, start a war you morons! "

we've learned from Serbs in Krajina that starting a war is never a good thing :-)

This is good news.

I can't wait for albanians to start a war. That is a truly great opportunity for countries to claim back land illegally occupied by albania.

Go ahead, start a war you morons! Give us the chance we are looking for!
(Scepticism, 22 March 2013 16:31)

I do not know if you a true Serb, but if yes, no wonder that you have no clue about your neighboroughs. Albanians never started a war. They get the best from the situation. In that sense they are more clever than you. You pushed them with your stupid mithology, they came back. You made a deal with Atatur and pushed 1 million to Turkey, they extended their families. You send Rankovic to kill them, they become 2 million. You cancelled the autonomy, they bought all your land. You created Milosevic and followed him as Germans Hitler, today you know where you are. Do not hope that Albanians will provoke you to make your frustrated nation happy. You can find another population nation to start a war. E.g. Sanzak or Vojvodina. We learned from the history and from you. Better a clever enemy than a stupid friend. Unforunately for you Serbs were never a clever enemy. We are patient and flexible and demographically we will get what is the map

(Mirel from Albania, 22 March 2013 16:18)

Instead of you boasting about the invisible Albanians in the Balkans what about we start talking about the visible Greeks who built all the cities known today as Southern Albania.For example:Epidamnos, or Dyrrhachion, Argyrokastro,Vlora,Appolonia,Chimera,Agioi Saranda to name a few.

Albanians should be more than happy with what they've managed to steal from their neighbours but if they continue with their wild nationalist dreams they will definitely lose their loot.

What a discovery!lol
I have leant those, since the 4rth grade about 35 years ago,in Albania.Everything except Cameria in Greece.
What has been changed now is the importance of the lessons and the depth of those historical periods in the book.When I was in school those have been mentioned but were not really important,because according to Hoxha communism will triumph and we will leave in peace with the neighbores.The most inmprtant part of the history was National Libration War 1939-44 in WWII which Hoxha come in power,the second was George Kastriot Scanderbeg period,and the third was Proclamantion of Independence but mentioning only Ismail Qemali and Isa Boletini and few others because the proclamation of independence act was orge by Hoxha.
Now those historical periods,sich as proclamation of Independennce and the events in Balkanic wars are being leraned with seriosity and are the most important part of the book, after Geogre Kastrioti Skanderbeg period which is the most important part of our history.Also has been included Cameria which was not before.

Albanians arrived in the Balkans with the Turks. What they claim as "Albanian" land is really nothing other than former Ottoman possessions.

In their day the Ottoman Turks were a powerful military force which carved an empire out of other people's lands.

The ancestors of modern-day Albanians were nothing more than petty thieves and cutthroats who followed the Turkish army and occupied lands cleansed of their original inhabitants.

Without NATO protection, Albanians would soon find themselves back in Anatolia.

What complete idiots!!!!

This is good news.

I can't wait for albanians to start a war. That is a truly great opportunity for countries to claim back land illegally occupied by albania.

Go ahead, start a war you morons! Give us the chance we are looking for!

@Leonidas

The problem with u greeks is that u assume that every orthodox is greek.U r wrong!
I am orthodox and I am Albanian and have been albanian at least since 1600 when one of my ancester decided to make the family tree.

The cities that u mentioned they were founded by greeks, but they were kicked out by illyrians under queen Teuta.

Anyway, we albanians and greeks have a lot of things in common and there is no need to fight each other.Even some of your great leaders(Venizelos,Pangalos) have mentioned an alliance with Albania would be the best option for Greece,since we r the oldest people in Balkans.

Albanian speakers gave a great cotribution in Greece independence,even today the Olympic Medals winners u got were from Albania,Manjani,Xhelili,Dimas etc.

Unfortunately,u choose serbs for alliance,which have nothing in common except the religion, pushing us toward Italy and Turkey.

Anyway,the all problems started when the international border commmision decided that several region were the majority of population speaks albanian to be under Serbia and Greece.
All those cities the article mentioned Albanians are 80-90%.
The Proclamation of Independence in 1912 was sign by the representatives from Preveza to Presheva.
Greek minority in Albania,my friend I can tell u with 100% certenty that there are 90 villages,and 10 villages with fyrom minority,and 3-4 villages with serbian/montenegrin minority.
If u call them majority sorry but u r wrong.

I too believe that Greeks and Albanians have a lot in common and the Greek Arvanites are the link between the two people. Velizelos and Pangalos (an Arvanite himself) were in favor of a good neighboring relationship between the two countries and made a lot of concessions to Albania during the 1920s creating bitterness among the members of the greek minority in Albania. Unfortunately Albania decided to become a puppet state of Italy rather than have a good relationship with its neighbors. This is what Albanians have been doing best throughout their history: Side with the more powerful and become their stooges. First it was the Ottoman Empire, then Italy and Germany, then the Soviet Union and now the USA. They don't want free and emancipated Balkans with peace and common respect between its peoples. They want foreing interventions in their favor. I'm afraid that Albanians cannot escape this pattern and this comes as no surprise. So if they think that the whole balkan peninsula belongs to them there is only way, to start a crusade and conquer it. But on their own this time.
As for you, "Mirel from Albania", what am i to suppose about you? That you're a 45 year old Albanian who uses LOL in his writings?

The only thing on their minds is stealing more and more surrounding terrritories while lying and saying it's theirs. What a joke!

Leonidas,

What are you talking about,what the lazy as" Greek build in Albania?!
what proves do you have that those were build from Greeks,other than those buildings are "Greek style"?!
You can clame those for greek as much as the USA can clame all the skyscrapers around the world as American build and American land.You guys are insane,Greek this Greek that,Greek skata.
Those kind of the buildings were in fashion at that time all over the region.
According to you logic(sic) all the nations of the world that use Latin alphabet have anything to do with Italy?

We should make a parkinglot out of Albania. A backward people who only want trouble.

"How and when did these areas secede from the geopolitical space of Albania?"

Geopolitical space of Albania? A new funny expression. Albanians must be really ashamed that an Albanian state only exist since 1912. Another symptom is that some of them claim to be ancestors 'Illyrians' or 'Dardanians' - but serious historians know that these are only unproven claims.

Who needs to worry about Al Queda when we have albanian schools being taught this?

There was no injustice in giving towns such as Podgorica, Vranje, Pristina, Mitrovica or Medvedja to Slav people, given that the names of these towns are clearly of Slavic origin and the towns were founded by Slavs.
(Karl

Karl, sine you know so much, tell what Podogorica was called before it became knos as Podgorica?

I know. You don't know the answer. Google Birziminium or Doclea. You might learn something new.

THANASIS
Who gives you the right to tell “US” Albanians who to side with?
Do you know the expression Money Talks?
You shouldn't talk right now Thanasis

It looks like the next balkan war is brewing for the next generation.

Albanian nationalism is being fueled and will be their downfall. One day they will be negotiating with Turks about the rightful ownership of rump Turkey.
(Zoran, 22 March 2013 15:42)

LOL the one time I'll openly side with the Turks on rightful ownership of land and history :)

All kidding aside, I've always regarded Albania about 20 - 30 years behind everyone else. Nice to see education in Hoxhastan is enjoying the blissful ignorance of 1990s nationalism. I wonder if in their discussion of an unjust history for a state that never existed before it was created by international committee in 1912 that they at least discuss the injustice of Northern Epiriote Greeks living in Albania? Eh, probably not :)

All of Serbia is Albanian land...it's that simple. You should be thanking us for allowing you to have your own country in the Balkan!
(Dardania, 22 March 2013 16:57)

I want the same drugs you are on right now!!!! You have to be really high on drugs right now, or you are truly insane!!!!!!

... too believe that Greeks and Albanians have a lot in common and the Greek Arvanites are the link between the two people. Velizelos and Pangalos (an Arvanite himself) were in favor of a good neighboring relationship between the two countries and made a lot of concessions to Albania during the 1920s creating bitterness among the members of the greek minority in Albania...

Yes thats true,they sign 9 agreement with Albania aiming an patrnetship or a confederation heleno-illyric or -greek-albanian ( I have read those in Pangalos' memoirs).

Unfortunately Pangalos was 1 year in office and the next gonverment abolished 8 out of 9 agreements,leaving both countries to square one.So dont blame Albania on this.Read Pangalis' memoirs.

As for URSS we kicked them out of Vlora but it was Cold War.U were american puppets at the time,now u r with body in EU and with head in Russia.

C'mon Thanasis,u know that the confederation with Greece was brilliant idea started from Ali Pasha to Pangalos.
Unfortunately u choose serbs over Albanians,so we had to choose anti serb powers.
This is the Balkan,is not only albanians who are looking for Big Powers,Serbia is looking to Russia and China,Bulgaria,Croatia to USA,Greece to Rusia etc.
U can see in this page how many time serb comentators are saying: We r going to kill u all albanians, once Russia is stronger...

Our time will come, GOD WILLING.
(Avni, 22 March 2013 16:29)

LOL according to your mythology, you've been a compact ethnic and national identity for more than 2 thousand years. I'd say "whenever you're ready" but that would actually require half of you to get off the internet and the other half to come up with a plan other than drawing maps and making up stories of greatness based on those maps.

There was no injustice in giving towns such as Podgorica, Vranje, Pristina, Mitrovica or Medvedja to Slav people, given that the names of these towns are clearly of Slavic origin and the towns were founded by Slavs.

delon

If those cities were Albanian they would've had Albanian names historiography and archaeology and the simple reason is Albanians weren't around when they were built.There is ample evidence in wikipedia.

Mirel

If one takes into consideration any credible census of the Albanian population Muslims make the 58% mark whereas the Christian Orthodox the 6% one which is translated around to 170000 people.One would like think that these figures could be credible if one sums up the numbers of Greeks,Bulgarians,Serbs and Fyromians living in Albania.

Greece and Albania have nothing in common apart from the common borders.An alliance with Albania? You're having a laugh are you not?Your other claim Albanians being the oldest nation in the Balkans in not worth commenting because such a claim exists only in Albanians deluded minds and nowhere else.
Maybe a read on the Muslims settling in the Balkans during the rule of the Ottomans Murad IV and SuleimanII could help you to learn more about your race.

Did you ask Dimas or the others and told you they were Albanians?Why don't you look at his family tree.The Greek minority, though smaller because of emigration to Greece ,still exists and I have seen it myself.

BTW I am very impressed that you managed to trace your family tree more than 400 years ago.The Ottomans must've kept pretty accurate records on the Albanians probably because they knew where they came from.

There must be a mistake with this map.I was with the impression that all the continent of Europe descended from the master race called Albanians.Even the Turks are laughing,Hoxha is still alive.

To serbs and greeks here,a story:in a dinner we had serbian greek and albanian ambasadors.Serbian A said our country has the most powerful army,the brightest universities of balkan,we resists to germans,to russiato usa etc,etc .Greek A said our country has the brightest history,our culturecovers the world,our army resists to turks and germans etc etc .and both of them looking at albanian A with some contempt asked and what has done your country.The albanian A after a moment just said: my country just resisted to the countries that had the most powerful culture,the most powerfull armies,the brightest universities,the most etc etc.
This is quite remarquable for my small country ,don't you think so to resist to your powerfull and bright countries he added..
Konica.

OK Zoran, let me rephrase that. we've learned from Serbs of Krajina that its never good to start a war you're destined to lose

what the hell is it with this Christian Albanians thenasis? there are Albanians period. christian, muslim, shaman, satanist, jew, pagan, atheist, deist, whatever....we choose not to be labelled in religious terms. we put our language and nationality above supernatural beliefs. out of curiosity do you view greek muslims as a threat to Greece? are you now going to swerve in the dangerous road of linking nationality with religion? well excuse me, maybe you are happy to discriminate against your fellow Muslim Greek citizens, we on the other hand, don't want that

The whole Planet Naboo was, is, and will be part of Albania.

"Not because they're Muslims but because they've been made to believe that they're Turks."

this is what a lot of Greeks try and do in the South of Albania, where the Orthodox Albanians live, they try to 'Hellenize" them. of course not the beautiful hellenistic principlez of Socrates, but the modern hellenizm the one that has been hijacked by mad moronic priests

To all Greek and Serb commentators,

I understand that you think we don't belong here, and we should disappear. Also , you're used to Albanians being second class citizens. This days are over. There are almost 6 million Albanians in Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia , and Montenegro. And they are as free as they have ever been. Albanian economy is growing fast, Albania is member of NATO, and soon to become a EU candidate country. Major infrastructure objects are being build, making it easier than ever to traveling to Kosovo, Macedonia and Montenegro. You either get along with us in peace and harmony, or get over it. We will assert our existence and fight for our rights.

I heard in some US American schools creationism is taught, too. I'm asking myself what is more ridiculous.

Greece and Albania have nothing in common apart from the common borders.
(Leonidas, 22 March 2013 22:04)

Than probably u have no idea about Albania.
U probably are greek pondes or somewhere far from Epiri.In the other words u r not greek,just u have become greek in 1922.
Read a little Thanasis comments and enlight yourself about history.
As for the census,the people who were couned were the people who ACTUALLY live in Albania.Several members of my family ,for example, didnt counted because they were in USA at the time when cesus was conducted.170000,orthodox ,taking in count that greeks have left in Greece since 1990,and 10 villages of fyroms live less than 3000 people,it seems OK to have 160000 Albanian orthodox.

Leonidas ,

Do you really want to go on the game of city names?
Ok. What Athens mean in Greek ,or even Greece itself as a name, what does it mean ?! What Corinthi ,joannina ,Egumenica, Preveza ... should I go further?
What Belgrade means in Serbian language?

Albanians new comers in the Balkans?,others don't think so.Older than all our naybours.

You can see that Alb. language is formed at least 5000 years ago in the Balkans.

Thanasis ,

What stooges are you talking about?
What you Greeks really did ?!
Let's start from Roman times,you fall to them,we fall much later than you.Constandinopolis was founded from Romans ,exacly,Constandine Illyrian origin,and not from Greeks.
The Bizantine times no one know who was who,you Greeks were calling yourselves Romios,till Germans and English told you that you should call yourself Greeks .

In the otoman times you fall first ,Albanians were last to fall to them.

WWI and WWII both our countries were invided from same fascists and nazis.
In modern times you love Russia we love USA.We have reason to love USA,don't know your reason for Rusia.We trying to join EU,wich you have already.
So what really have you done more than others in the region in the last 2000 years??

So what really have you done more than others in the region in the last 2000 years??
(delon, 23 March 2013 01:59)

Let me think. Well we had an empire that lasted for 1000 years, which was of course multiethnic like any other empire but predominantly greek since anybody who wanted to be anybody in Byzantium had to have a greek education and be an Orthodox. We gave religion,culture and an alphabet to the Slavs through the missions of Cyril and Methodius. We revolted against the Ottomans and we were the first balkan nation to gain an independent state, thus showing the way to the other enslaved balkan nations. We expanded our borders by fighting in the battlefields in 2 Balkan and 2 World Wars and always on the winning side. In more recent years we have two Nobel prizes for litterature. Those are some of our humble achievements. Nothing much really.

Albania, you are the least of Serbia's concern. You guys are weak and did not back your fellow Albanians during the kosovo war. Your lucky, grand master TITO granted you guys the privilege of having your own country.

...Arbanites and Arberesh are simply not Albanians and thus their explicit hostility towards them.
@ Leonidas,

R u sure that Arberesh are hostile toward Albanians,because I know that they have been in the frontline of Albania couse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0xqSHZIwO0

U have hunderets pro Albanian videos made from Arberesh.They lobby in USA for Albanian couse.

Arvanites is a different story,they were braiwashed by greek church,so most of them are more greeks than greeks.Some of them who manage to say that Arvanites and Albanians are the same people ,got killed or vanished.

...when Muslim Albanians arrived in the area and tried to assimilate them...
So according to your logic,Muslim Albanisn come in Albanis and ended up speaking the same language as Arvanites and Arberesh???!!!There is no logic here.

Why is so difficult to accept that Muslim Albanisn were Christian till 200 yeears ago?There are thousands of documents where Christian Albanians,in order to pay less taxes converted to Muslim.There is no difference between an Muslim,orthodox and catholic Albanian.Probably for a greek point of view is difficult to undersand.

Go in Tirana and see that Muslim Albanians are even more emancipated than others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp-ckHwAQKg
90% of people in this video are Muslim.

Lastly,the Ethnic Albani and Illyrian-Albanian story didnt start with Hoxha but in early 1800s.

...Even the Albanians favourite historian Malcolm finally admits that he cannot explain how Albanians came into Balkans. ...

@ Leonidas,
This is true,none can explain how Albanians come into Balkan,none.
Why?
Because they didnt come,they were there all the time together with greeks.

...To sum up i think that the Christian Albanians have been and still are friends of Greece, but the Muslim Albanians are Greece's worst enemies, worse even than the Turks. Whenever the sultans wanted to punish Greeks for their uprisings they sent the Albanians to do some looting. The word Turkalavanos still has a very negative meaning in my country.
(thanasis, 23 March 2013 11:37)...

...There is no other nation on Earth which the neighbores hate more than Albanians.Greeks dont consider Christaian Albanians as Christian,Turks dont consider Mulsim Albanians as Mulsims.May be Albanians are something between Christian and Muslim or neither Christian nor Muslim....
Lord Bayron.

"An Orthodox Albanian,can kill 10 greeks to save a Muslimor Catholic Albanian,an Muslim Albanian can kill 10 turks to save a Orthodox or Catholic Albanian."
U know damn well this sentence from a serbian PM in 1800s, is true.
As for the political elite that hates greeks,u know that most of political elite are Christian Orthodox.They come up with Natyral Albania Concept,Albanians schools,Albanian army etc,from Jani Vreto 1878 to today Koco Danaj.They fought greeks in 1916 in Korca where greeks were kicked out by albanian army most of them orthodox...

are you still persisting with that nonsense Leonidas? now the Arberesh don't have Albanian roots either? interesting. ask your fellow Arvanites why is it that I, a Gheg Albanian, understand their language without EVER having studied it. after all if we're two completely distinct ethnic groups, this would be reflected in language. it isn't. as for the Arberesh, well, its too stupid a comment to even bother to correct.

well thenasis, you choose to interlink nationality with faith. good for you. we don't do that for a very simple reason, we're of three different faiths. there's catholics among us, orthodox among us and muslims. this is the reason why Albanian Nationalism has always been secular. we hold our language dear and we unite around that. when Albanians of the Orthodox faith started to develop a national conscience, you had Greek priests do everything to try and suppress it. Patriarch Joachim IV of Constantinople even threatend to excommunicate anyone found reading and writing Albanain. of course, I assume you are familiar with the Hudson incident, where an Orthodox Greek priest refused to perform the funeral rites for Kristaq Dishnica, who was of course an Albanian Orthodox but who had fought on the side of the Albanian National Movement. finally Fan Noli told them to shove it and established the Albanian Orthodox Church, which is the best thing that they have done.

To all Greek and Serb commentators,

I understand that you think we don't belong here, and we should disappear. Also , you're used to Albanians being second class citizens. This days are over. There are almost 6 million Albanians in Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia , and Montenegro
=================================

Quantity does not make quality. And yes, it would be great if you would just leave and go back to Albania. If you were decent law abiding citizens when in other countries then nobody would feel this way, but the way you people behave who wants you around?

"The whole Planet Naboo was, is, and will be part of Albania."

I was incorrect, that's Tatooine and not Naboo. Tatooine is under wise leadership of the Hutt mafia.

Who is wondering about this? This Albaninas are related with the idea of "Greater Albania", they know what they want.

Ahhhh, yes....the Albanians and the Albanian empire. The biggest and greatest empire in Europe to leave absolutely ZERO evidence behind of it's existence! Only they know about it. Oh, but don't worry, the answer to why there is no evidence of their European empire is they were Illyrians. No artifacts, no signs of anything Albanian in those regions. Eh, who needs little things like that, just make it up.

What a joke.

The most recent studies in genetics show that the Albanian people, who claim are the descendents of these mythological illyrians, are for about 85% are immigrants (Neolithic and Bronze age) from everywhere but Europe, and just 15% are true European (Mesolithic Europeans). You people are from all over the 3 continents, but are definitely not from illyrian descent.

The Serbian people are for about 40% true European (Mesolithic Europeans), 45% are Neolithic/Bronze age immigrants (BC) from all over but Europe, and just 15% are Balto-Slavic immigrants (AD).

So you have as much claim to these lands as Serbs have - None!

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

The fact that the Albanian pale of settlement includes most of Kosovo, Medvedja, Ulcinj, the villages of Rumija, and Macedonia from Kumanovo through Skopje and Tetovo to Struga is hardly news.
In our age of nation states, sooner or later these areas will have to be included in a larger Albanian state.
Or the states in question will have to remove the Albanians from their territory.
Serbia failed to do this in 1999, and Macedonia in 2001. Presumably, Montenegro does not have the stomach to do so either.
Only a question of time before a larger Albanian state comes into being.

Leonidas,

Then , where do Albanians come from then? There is no record of an Albanian exodus, and we speak a unique ancient, indo-european language . Any other claim you make is pure speculation. All above mentioned scientist, agree that we are a ancient nation , they only disagree t on Illyrian origin. Furthermore, for any of them that deny the Illyrian origin, there are 2 that claim the opposite. If you care I can list them. There also others that deny Hellenic origin of Greeks, by stating that today Greeks only adapted their language. Also pointing out that Albanian language was spoken routinely accross the Greece in mid 19th century, although there was no Albanians school. Who knows? Should I claim that you were not there neither? You guys gotta stop the nonsense.

History for Balkan Albo start in April 1042yr.
Today primitive albos dream is over and think all Balkan is his.

Now I have seen it all, but perhaps the lads at the Education Minister in Albania have missed out Australia, New Zealand and perhaps Indonesia or why even Japan.
Keep up the good work soon you’ll out do the Croats who ruled all of the Ukraine and Poland but decided to live on the Adriatic so abandoned their empire for a simpler life in the Balkans.
Is it any wonder Albanians and Croats are the laughing stocks of this world?

When the War beginns in the Middle East,
Albania will come for all Territories they think is Theirs.
At the same Time,
Hungary will come for Vojvodina,
Croatia for Bosnia,
and Austria will support the efforts of Croatia with military adventures into Bosnia and Montenegro.

All of those Northern Countries will be Supported by Germany who will enter into Polen to cover the back of Hungary.

Arn.Sweden.

we've learned from Serbs in Krajina that starting a war is never a good thing :-)
(Nikolle, 22 March 2013 17:35)
--
Not true, you learnt from "Kosova" that starting a war is a good thing. That is why your nationalism is being fueled. You provoked a war in FYROM and then in the Presevo valley and are now looking to expand.

One day you will overstep the boundary and you master won't be there to help. For every one of you, who believes there won't be a war, there are 100 nationalists who are preparing to unite "Albanian" lands. It reminds me of the mid to late 80s when nationalism spread across the former YU.

Read a little Thanasis comments and enlight yourself about history.

(Mirel from Albania, 22 March 2013 23:42)

I don't think Thanasis is saying something different than I do.I've made myself clear on many occasions when the subject of Albanian-Illyrian connection comes up.I have said that Arbanites and Arberesh are Christians that once inhabited Illyria and then fled into Greece and Italy when Muslim Albanians arrived in the area and tried to assimilate them.Arbanites and Arberesh are simply not Albanians and thus their explicit hostility towards them.

Professor Wilkes,Albanian historians Dr Kaplan Resuli,Dr Adrian Qosi, Adrian Vebiu and Austrian linguists Stefan Schumacher and Joachim Matzinger all confirm what I've said above.ALBANIANS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ILLYRIANS.Even the Albanians favourite historian Malcolm finally admits that he cannot explain how Albanians came into Balkans.

Mirel have you ever wandered as to why there isn't any Illyrian inscription written in Albanian? Because Albanians weren't there.
Did you ask as to why all toponyms in Kosovo and Norhern Albania have Serbian names?The answer is Albanians simply weren't there.You just managed to construct your language 100 years ago.The whole charade of Albanian ancient glorification was nothing more than a communist ploy invented by Hoxha to legitimatise the land theft from his neighbours.

@Nikolle

There's no reason for you to get upset just because we disagree. So you put nationality above all other things. That makes you a nationalist and that's no medal of honor you know. If you ask me i'd rather have faith in a religion and unity through its church rather than faith in race, blood or nation, which is also a label if you ponder upon it. Religion may not be as important nowadays, but when we talk about the Middle Ages and the Ottoman period it was all that mattered. People back then were not interested in national identities, which had not even been forged as we know them today, and has it ever occured to you that maybe they were wiser than us? Nationalism is a very recent phenomenum in this part of the planet. It is a twisted western notion that has literally been planted to our region but as is seems it has poisoned our lives permanently.
As for the Muslims of Thrace, they haven't shown any signs of hostility towards Greece but they have been subjected to so much brainwashing and propaganda by the turkish consulate, that they could be a threat in the future. Not because they're Muslims but because they've been made to believe that they're Turks. If you ask them what they feel they will say Turks and that's what worries me.

Then , where do Albanians come from then? There is no record of an Albanian exodus,
====================================
There is no record of anything about Albanians full stop.
You make a lot of claims but there is no proof of anything.

"I have said to you before the Arvanites I know in Greece find it very insulting to call them Albanians."

so now we should take peoples sensitivities into account when we discuss ethnology and language? how offended Arvanites are by their association with albanians does not matter to me. there is a very clear and demonstrable linguistic link between Albanians and Arvanites. this is why scholars today classify Arvanite as a spinoff of the Albanian language. let them dislike it till kingdom come, the connection is still there. of course this does not make Arvanites Albanian anymore than than it makes me a Greek, but there is no doubt that there is a link between the two.
now, are you actually claiming that Muslim Albanians spoke a different language to Christian Albanians? are you actually saying that?

now, are you actually claiming that Muslim Albanians spoke a different language to Christian Albanians? are you actually saying that?
(Nikolle, 24 March 2013 12:01)

There were no Christian Albanians but Christian Arvanites.I do not believe that Albanians were converted to Islam by the Ottomans but they were already converted centuries earlier prior to their arrival in the Balkans.The same argument applies to thousands of Muslims from Greece who were sent to Turkey during the population exchanges.They were not indigenous Greeks but settlers from Turkey.

We can continue to argue about the Albanian language for days but the evidence to date produced by the Austrian linguists Stefan Schumacher and Joachim Matzinger does not link the Albanian language to the ancient people of the Balkans and therefore one would deduce it's a newcomer.Furthermore,the fact that virtually all toponyms in North Albania and Kosovo are in fact Serbian re-enforces that view.

There must be a mistake with this map.I was with the impression that all the continent of Europe descended from the master race called Albanians.Even the Turks are laughing,Hoxha is still alive.
(Gotsefromohrid, 22 March 2013 17:42)

You may have missed the small print that B92 put by the image. It says: the map is not related to the article but we are putting it in here anyway.

"
Maybe a read on the Muslims settling in the Balkans during the rule of the Ottomans Murad IV and SuleimanII could help you to learn more about your race. "

Albanians are Europeans by their DNA and their language, which is Indo-European, like almost every other language in Europe. (It's more closely related to the Romance languages than to Slavic.)

The Ottomans moved some Circassians into Kosovo after they were ejected from around the Black Sea by the Russians, which may be the source of the common Serbian claim that the Albanians came from somewhere far, far away.

Well Pangalos was not exactly in office because noone elected him there. He was a dictator and an admirer of Mussolini and so were his successors. The years 1922-36 were a period of political turmoil in Greece with continuous military regimes overthrowing one another. So i wouldn't be a big fan of Pangalos if i were you.
Mirel from your comment it seems as though Albania moves according to Greece's choises. You say that we abolished the treaties of 1926 so you sided with Italy, we chose the Serbs so you chose the anti-Serbs. I don't think that's the case. I think that the albanian political elite throughout the years is anti-Greek and purposedly cultivates sentiments of hatred for Greeks among the local population. Greece's choises is just the excuse they need.
I'm not so sure that a greek-albanian confederation would be such a great idea. A confederation between Greeks and Tosks maybe would work. But a confederation with Gheks and other Muslim Albanians would be a total disaster. It would be like inviting back Turkey and allowing it to control our political life as it does in Bulgaria.
To sum up i think that the Christian Albanians have been and still are friends of Greece, but the Muslim Albanians are Greece's worst enemies, worse even than the Turks. Whenever the sultans wanted to punish Greeks for their uprisings they sent the Albanians to do some looting. The word Turkalavanos still has a very negative meaning in my country.

Pegy,
Repeating things over and over doesn't make them true. Obviously if all Serbs have the same prejudices toward Albanians, the reconciliation between both nations will be long and difficult. In the end of the day you have to come to terms with the reality in the ground. Albanians will not disappear, and have exercised their right for self-determination. You might not like it, but you'll have to get over it.

What's wrong with our (Albanian) version of historical facts? What we teach our pupils is our business and Belgrade should mind it's own business. When it comes to media munipilation and brainwashing it's citizens - Serbia takes the grand prize. What took place with Kosova in the last 20 years was a form of regurgitation of sorts or for lack of a better word a form divine comeuppance. Stolen Albanian towns and lands should be returned to the rightful owners if future problems wish to be avoided. This way of thinking is not a form of expansionism, aggresion, or an attempted Albanian land grab of sorts but just a plea to right the historical wrongs that my people suffered and their offsprings still suffer due to cruel discrimination. We either use pens to resolve these matters or we shall use swords.

Skender - You're a joke buddy. You and your Albanian cohorts can't settle anything with swords, or should I say without your guardian angel's (US) swords. You guys can't even properly issue license plates in Kosovo.

The truth of the matter is you are a people searching for an identity. You claim to be of Iliryian origin, but there is no ethno-anthropological evidence that supports this claim. You claim that you are the indigenous people of Kosovo, but the historical architecture there is Serbian, even as you try to destroy all that you can.

Albanians are made up of 3 different religions, Muslim, Orthodox & Catholic. The Orthodox & Catholic Albanians of the Balkans quickly and enthusiastically converted to Islam during the Ottoman occupation so as to make their lives easier. Thus selling your souls and becoming Ottoman subjects led to the overwhelming Albanian population in the Balkans becoming Muslim.

A further look at Albanian history reveals an eager alliance with Nazi Germany during WWII, again joining the occupiers, rather than fighting Hitler's butchers. And had the Serbs & Montenegrins not been so generous after the Balkan War of 1912, the country of Albania would not exist today.

So your friends in Albania can rewrite all the history books they want, the civilized world will continue to teach the truth. I can't say that I blame you though, with a history like yours, I'd try to change it too. LOL

Instead of finding out the " Nationalisem " in Albanian high schools
call to your conscience and roots to know who the native of Balkan are not only in the north but also in the south since the time of prehistory when there were no country and borders.You might happens to discover your own history as well and if you are intellectual enough you will know the great injustice (criminal) some to the others of same race in name of religion.Arbani

are you still persisting with that nonsense Leonidas? now the Arberesh don't have Albanian roots either? interesting. ask your fellow Arvanites why is it that I, a Gheg Albanian, understand their language without EVER having studied it. after all if we're two completely distinct ethnic groups, this would be reflected in language. it isn't. as for the Arberesh, well, its too stupid a comment to even bother to correct.
Nikolle, 23 March 2013 21:22)

It's you Nikolle that gets agitated and resorts to stupid comments.Albanians have moved to Greece,Italy,Germany and many other countries in the last 20 years yet they manage to speak the local language without being to school. That doesn't make them Greeks,Italians.Germans etc.What's your point?

The same thing happened with Muslim Albanians when they moved to your present lands and mixed with the indigenous populations.

I have said to you before the Arvanites I know in Greece find it very insulting to call them Albanians.

Brandon

The Greeks have been visible for the last 5000 years through history,archaeology,religion and culture and I can tell you that I understand,read and write the ancient Greek language as well as the modern which of course is based on the ancient one.

have read an awful lot of crap about the origin of my people, but yours is the best
(Nikolle, 24 March 2013 23:56)

My crap cannot be compared with the Albanian one about the Illyrian origin of Albanians everywhere.We are Illyrians’ and that’s that,no discussion allowed,no evidence presented and anybody daring to express a different point of view is crucified.

Yes Muslim Albanians like all the the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the Balkans were not indigenous but settlers from Turkey thus the millions of Albanians in Turkey.

"My crap cannot be compared with the Albanian one "

you are absolutely right, it can't be compared, yours is an awful lot of worse.

@Nikolle
You need to cool off a little because i detect a lot of anger from your part lately. Maybe you should take a break from being in the B92 and commenting on a daily basis since it's not good on your nerves. Noone is obliged to agree with you, you know, especially when you resort to insults. Mad moronic priests? How would you feel if i started offending the clergymen of your religion (whatever that is)? Anyway regain your calm and we'll chat again in the future. I'm sure we can find something to agree upon.

@Mirel
How can the Arvanites have been brainwashed by the greek church? Those people were already Orthodox when they arrived here in the 14th century. No Greek clergyman persuaded them to convert to Christianity. And it was for that reason that they were so well assimilated in the greek society becoming an inseparable part of it. You and Nikolle have this tendency to see the greek orthodox church behind all evil. I can assure you that it's not like that and if you don't believe me, ask your compatriots who have lived in Greece on how they've been treated by the greek church. The greek church helps anybody in need regardless of colour, ethnicity or religion and that's why it has received criticism by right-wing parties like Hrysi Avgi who claim that all of the church's charity goes to Albanians and Paqistanis. So if both Albanian and Greek nationalists criticize the greek church i'm sure that the greek church is doing the right thing.

my belief system? i don't have one, i'm an atheist. insult all clerics for all you're worth, you really won't be offending me. for what its worth, i have nothing against the greek church. i look at it with the same eyes that i do any other faith, wrong and bull, but some people believe it and i have to live with it. my objection to religious meddling, especially amongst Albanians is that it can be a major source of division for the simple reason that we are a nation of three faiths. if the religious concentrated on what their supposed mission is, to salvage souls it'd be all and good. they don't do that however, they want to dictate in politics.

Christian Arvanites? dear me, so to you, the fact that I can understand more than 90% Arvanite, without ever having studied it, is just sheer dumb luck. how about the Arberesh in Italy? I can understand an awful lot of their language too. dumb luck again? seriously you have weird ideas. what about the Catholic Albanians in the Malesia region of Montenegro, Northern Albania, Dukagjini region of Kosova, are they a separate ethnic group from the Muslim Albanians? or are they, what i insist they are, the same ethnic group but simply a Catholic one? deer me, you really write an awful lot of nonsense.

I forgot to reply to your claim about place names being slavic. naming of places says nothing about demographics, it only says who the ruling people were, northing else. why else is Constantinople called Instanbul? use logic next time

"There were no Christian Albanians but Christian Arvanites.I do not believe that Albanians were converted to Islam by the Ottomans but they were already converted centuries earlier prior to their arrival in the Balkans."

You're still left with the fact however that the Muslim Albanians still speak the same language as the Christian Albanians. so, who copied whom do you think? why did those Muslim Albanians assimilate with the Christian Albanians and not the Turks (linguistically speaking) ? i mean, i have read an awful lot of crap about the origin of my people, but yours is the best

Leonidas,
Even those two linguists, state in their theory that Albanian language is a distinctive Indo-European language originated around 2000 BC, somewhere in Northern Balkans. They base it on the influence Albanian has had in surrounding language. They also state that all other Balkan nations have created myths that link them to ancient civilizations in the area, in order to create a claim in the territory. Now, why should you disseminate such a misinformation. Furthermore considering that this is not an exact science, why should you take their theory as the sole one. The true scientists have their theories based on the evidences they find . In your case it seems that you have stated the theory first, and now you're trying the evidences that support it, even with the cost of making them up. You are certainly in title to your opinion, but not to your own facts. Worse, it's a shame that you have to resort to this methods.
Here are the links:
http://learnalbanianonline.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/the-albanian-ancient-long-live-the-legacy-of-a-dead-language/
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/austrian-scholars-leave-albania-lost-for-words