Serbia should leave it.
Biting into a rotten apple will only give you a bad taste in your mouth.
(Peggy, 19 March 2013 13:52)
I'm sure that a diaspora Serb like you will support that, since you don't have to deal with the consequences, but ok, this is your opinion.
Then why neither the PM nor the president says so? Did not Nikolic state that a referendum is necessary to determine the path? Now he is president and no referendum. In fact, all parties (except maybe for DSS) head for the EU, despite the clear statements that EU can only become true when Kosovo is recognized. Are Serbian politicians blind, stupid, naive or all together? Or are they not that stupid and try to hold this bargaining chip for the final stage? That reminds of Dacic statement:
This is why the options are as they are. Take it or leave it.
(John, 19 March 2013 09:16)
=================================
Serbia should leave it.
Biting into a rotten apple will only give you a bad taste in your mouth.
Whether Serbia chooses the former or the latter, it's good for Kosovo either way.
(icj1, 19 March 2013 04:41)
---------------------------
Why is that? According to you guys Serbia is insignificant and doesn't impact on Kosovo in any way.
So what does it matter and how can Kosovo benefit from either one?
You mean capitulate or give up on EU?
Any more concessions and it's capitulation. Which Serbia politician is brave enough to do that?
(Peggy, 18 March 2013 20:48)
Which concessions? Serbia is obstructing Kosovo wherever she can. Serbia's "concessions" are just bargaining chips for closing into the EU membership process. Everybody can see that. Now, the Albanian side has drawn a line that it is not accepting this any more which is completely understandable, especially when reflecting that the clear majority in EU and world-wide recognizes Kosovo's independence. Even officials in several EU states have stated numerous times that recognition is the last logical step before joining the EU and that a 2nd Cyprus disaster will not be accepted.
This is the red line of many EU states and they will not capitulate in front of Serbia. Why should they anyway? They don't need that Balkan country. It is Serbia who wants to to join.
This is why the options are as they are. Take it or leave it.
The biggest concession is having the guts to seat at the same table with Albanian hypocrites.
(MARY, 18 March 2013 19:15)
You could not have sum up in better words how few Serbs have given in this negotiations. You were just sitting there and hoping for a miracle. Please forward this statement to anybody who is involved in that talk.
Again and again and again. We here the Serbs speak with dignity, integrity and firmness. We see the concessions they make. The Albanians do nothing, they say nothing and they make no concessions. They just sit on Ashton's lap and let mommy take care of them and make big noises about how their Uncle Sam is going to beat up anyone up who makes do what they don't want to do.
@Captain America, 18 March 2013 17:28 - There's less going on here than meets the eye - with the withdrawal from Iraq and drawdown in Afghanistan, the Regular Army and the National Guard are simply returning to their normal roles, where the Army, Navy, etc. handle oversea assignments and the National Guard prepares to defend the homeland. That has always meant, in my experience, dealing with natural disasters and the occasional riot. The rules of engagement won't change simply because the units have. If they're told to shoot, they will, and if they're told not to, they won't.
So it is now up to you. You can give up EU path or start making real concessions. That are the only things on the table.
(John, 18 March 2013 13:33)
---------------------------------
You mean capitulate or give up on EU?
Any more concessions and it's capitulation. Which Serbia politician is brave enough to do that?
Some of the serbian commentators are writing that "serbia has made enough concessions". Pardon my ignorance, but it would be very informative if one of you would list these "many concessions" already done by Serbia.
Keep in mind that the EU is not trying to join Serbia. Its Serbia that is trying to join the EU, therefore rules of enganment are a prerequisite that unfortunately need to be fulfilled beforehand. Additionally, the arguments like "our government is working hard, therefore we deserve a start date" are at best naive if not insane.
Hi Serbian posters! Did your little government mention to you that Force 17 is on the way soon? This is a big deal to have US soldiers patrolling the north. Have fun causing trouble, erecting barricades, shooting at US soldiers. They will show you where your place is...
EU would like for the balkans as a whole to join but if Serbia does not it only means isolation for Serbia, which in turn makes it less attractive for business deals"
For the EU the Balkan except Croatia is of non-interest at all. There is no industry, no great agriculture, no educated people-only endless tensions among the villagers. In the West nobody has an idea how it looks in Serbia and other small places. The EU cannot bring Serbia out of its own mental isolationwith its strange ideas about the outside world. Also Russia and China are taking Serbia only as munition for their little games with US/EU.The key are the serbs to create a real Serb nation without permanent looking on the next village and putting all the little questions "Why it is allowed to them and not to us". The Serbs are wating for a Messiah in Brussels, but there are only selfish pure capitalists with global interests. No villagers with interest in smallest affairs.
This guy is so irrelevant in Serbian political leadership. He is trying to play the Serbia president,prime minister, chairman of parlament....Serbia's unilateral platform means nothing to parties involved in the so called talks and this doesnt seem to get it!
You have to wonder who they are making these statements too. Pristina has nothing to gain from the negotiations, the west has nothing to gain by continuing. EU would like for the balkans as a whole to join but if Serbia does not it only means isolation for Serbia, which in turn makes it less attractive for business deals with China and Russia or anywhere else. People on this forum keep saying Serbia should turn to China and Russia but unless it is a good business decision for them they will have nothing to do with it.
A stalemate has been reached. No further progress on the Kosovo dilemma can be made without concessions/compromises from either side.
Serbia has made it clear that it will never recognise an independent Kosovo and Kosovo is secure in the knowledge that it's quest for independence is being backed by the US and the EU.
Serbia now needs to make up the balance and decide where it wants to go from here.
Either give in and move on or keep spending political time and billions of Euros by hanging on to a pipe dream of reunification. I say pipe dream because everyone knows and as much as this maybe regrettable to the Serbian people, that this will never happen.
But now, according to Pantić, "Serbia is done with making concessions".
International negotiations are like with a private busines making a deal, both sides are giving something and getting something. Now we are informed that the Albanian side has nothing given but the Serb side was making concessions. But why? Little children are knowing this how to make deals with toys etc but not Dacic, Nikolic and Vucic. The declared many times what is nothing important to declare: the result of negotiations is a compromise. But the Serb leaders are declearing that they are ready to offer somethin which is "painful" for the Serbs. The Albanians would never say such stupid words. If you see the history of international agreements, each side will at the end only highlight what they gained in real terms. The Serb side is before the deal highlighting the loss (the "painful" decisions). For a good player, and this are the Albanians, he would not give anything to somebody who is showing you the weakness of his position. There are many textbooks how to negotiate. Possibly somebody could sent it to the Serb leaders, but the question is: would they read it, or understand the content (alos Kostunica with his religious believe in legal affairs could read some books)? My feeling is ot the best answering this questions.
Serbia demonstrated its readiness to make great concessions, he stated, and added that this was evident in the fact that the original Kosovo platform, drafted by President Tomislav Nikolić, had been "softened".
BS! The so-called platform is a maximum wishlist with no link to reality. Serbia has done nothing which can be called a concession, but slowly only recognized reality on the ground. There is no chance that there will be a change of Kosovo's stance when it comes to her interests and freedom is not negotiable.
So it is now up to you. You can give up EU path or start making real concessions. That are the only things on the table.
It's in the EU interest for Serbia to join. The more holes it fills within the body of Europe the more secure and stable it is. As a matter of fact, it needs to do so very quickly or risk further deterioration. One only needs to look to the rushed joining of Bulgaria/Romania and the fact that it did absolutely negligible harm to the EU, but actually enlaged it and secured it a little more. Serbia needs to be aware of that during these negotiations. Once it is, there will be a lot less stress on everyone.
Serbia demonstrated its readiness to make great concessions, he stated, and added that this was evident in the fact that the original Kosovo platform, drafted by President Tomislav Nikolić, had been "softened".
BS! The so-called platform is a maximum wishlist with no link to reality. Serbia has done nothing which can be called a concession, but slowly only recognized reality on the ground. There is no chance that there will be a change of Kosovo's stance when it comes to her interests and freedom is not negotiable.
So it is now up to you. You can give up EU path or start making real concessions. That are the only things on the table.
A stalemate has been reached. No further progress on the Kosovo dilemma can be made without concessions/compromises from either side.
Serbia has made it clear that it will never recognise an independent Kosovo and Kosovo is secure in the knowledge that it's quest for independence is being backed by the US and the EU.
Serbia now needs to make up the balance and decide where it wants to go from here.
Either give in and move on or keep spending political time and billions of Euros by hanging on to a pipe dream of reunification. I say pipe dream because everyone knows and as much as this maybe regrettable to the Serbian people, that this will never happen.
This guy is so irrelevant in Serbian political leadership. He is trying to play the Serbia president,prime minister, chairman of parlament....Serbia's unilateral platform means nothing to parties involved in the so called talks and this doesnt seem to get it!
You have to wonder who they are making these statements too. Pristina has nothing to gain from the negotiations, the west has nothing to gain by continuing. EU would like for the balkans as a whole to join but if Serbia does not it only means isolation for Serbia, which in turn makes it less attractive for business deals with China and Russia or anywhere else. People on this forum keep saying Serbia should turn to China and Russia but unless it is a good business decision for them they will have nothing to do with it.
EU would like for the balkans as a whole to join but if Serbia does not it only means isolation for Serbia, which in turn makes it less attractive for business deals"
For the EU the Balkan except Croatia is of non-interest at all. There is no industry, no great agriculture, no educated people-only endless tensions among the villagers. In the West nobody has an idea how it looks in Serbia and other small places. The EU cannot bring Serbia out of its own mental isolationwith its strange ideas about the outside world. Also Russia and China are taking Serbia only as munition for their little games with US/EU.The key are the serbs to create a real Serb nation without permanent looking on the next village and putting all the little questions "Why it is allowed to them and not to us". The Serbs are wating for a Messiah in Brussels, but there are only selfish pure capitalists with global interests. No villagers with interest in smallest affairs.
Hi Serbian posters! Did your little government mention to you that Force 17 is on the way soon? This is a big deal to have US soldiers patrolling the north. Have fun causing trouble, erecting barricades, shooting at US soldiers. They will show you where your place is...
But now, according to Pantić, "Serbia is done with making concessions".
International negotiations are like with a private busines making a deal, both sides are giving something and getting something. Now we are informed that the Albanian side has nothing given but the Serb side was making concessions. But why? Little children are knowing this how to make deals with toys etc but not Dacic, Nikolic and Vucic. The declared many times what is nothing important to declare: the result of negotiations is a compromise. But the Serb leaders are declearing that they are ready to offer somethin which is "painful" for the Serbs. The Albanians would never say such stupid words. If you see the history of international agreements, each side will at the end only highlight what they gained in real terms. The Serb side is before the deal highlighting the loss (the "painful" decisions). For a good player, and this are the Albanians, he would not give anything to somebody who is showing you the weakness of his position. There are many textbooks how to negotiate. Possibly somebody could sent it to the Serb leaders, but the question is: would they read it, or understand the content (alos Kostunica with his religious believe in legal affairs could read some books)? My feeling is ot the best answering this questions.
Some of the serbian commentators are writing that "serbia has made enough concessions". Pardon my ignorance, but it would be very informative if one of you would list these "many concessions" already done by Serbia.
Keep in mind that the EU is not trying to join Serbia. Its Serbia that is trying to join the EU, therefore rules of enganment are a prerequisite that unfortunately need to be fulfilled beforehand. Additionally, the arguments like "our government is working hard, therefore we deserve a start date" are at best naive if not insane.
It's in the EU interest for Serbia to join. The more holes it fills within the body of Europe the more secure and stable it is. As a matter of fact, it needs to do so very quickly or risk further deterioration. One only needs to look to the rushed joining of Bulgaria/Romania and the fact that it did absolutely negligible harm to the EU, but actually enlaged it and secured it a little more. Serbia needs to be aware of that during these negotiations. Once it is, there will be a lot less stress on everyone.
The biggest concession is having the guts to seat at the same table with Albanian hypocrites.
(MARY, 18 March 2013 19:15)
You could not have sum up in better words how few Serbs have given in this negotiations. You were just sitting there and hoping for a miracle. Please forward this statement to anybody who is involved in that talk.
Again and again and again. We here the Serbs speak with dignity, integrity and firmness. We see the concessions they make. The Albanians do nothing, they say nothing and they make no concessions. They just sit on Ashton's lap and let mommy take care of them and make big noises about how their Uncle Sam is going to beat up anyone up who makes do what they don't want to do.
So it is now up to you. You can give up EU path or start making real concessions. That are the only things on the table.
(John, 18 March 2013 13:33)
---------------------------------
You mean capitulate or give up on EU?
Any more concessions and it's capitulation. Which Serbia politician is brave enough to do that?
You mean capitulate or give up on EU?
Any more concessions and it's capitulation. Which Serbia politician is brave enough to do that?
(Peggy, 18 March 2013 20:48)
Which concessions? Serbia is obstructing Kosovo wherever she can. Serbia's "concessions" are just bargaining chips for closing into the EU membership process. Everybody can see that. Now, the Albanian side has drawn a line that it is not accepting this any more which is completely understandable, especially when reflecting that the clear majority in EU and world-wide recognizes Kosovo's independence. Even officials in several EU states have stated numerous times that recognition is the last logical step before joining the EU and that a 2nd Cyprus disaster will not be accepted.
This is the red line of many EU states and they will not capitulate in front of Serbia. Why should they anyway? They don't need that Balkan country. It is Serbia who wants to to join.
This is why the options are as they are. Take it or leave it.
Serbia should leave it.
Biting into a rotten apple will only give you a bad taste in your mouth.
(Peggy, 19 March 2013 13:52)
I'm sure that a diaspora Serb like you will support that, since you don't have to deal with the consequences, but ok, this is your opinion.
Then why neither the PM nor the president says so? Did not Nikolic state that a referendum is necessary to determine the path? Now he is president and no referendum. In fact, all parties (except maybe for DSS) head for the EU, despite the clear statements that EU can only become true when Kosovo is recognized. Are Serbian politicians blind, stupid, naive or all together? Or are they not that stupid and try to hold this bargaining chip for the final stage? That reminds of Dacic statement:
@Captain America, 18 March 2013 17:28 - There's less going on here than meets the eye - with the withdrawal from Iraq and drawdown in Afghanistan, the Regular Army and the National Guard are simply returning to their normal roles, where the Army, Navy, etc. handle oversea assignments and the National Guard prepares to defend the homeland. That has always meant, in my experience, dealing with natural disasters and the occasional riot. The rules of engagement won't change simply because the units have. If they're told to shoot, they will, and if they're told not to, they won't.
This is why the options are as they are. Take it or leave it.
(John, 19 March 2013 09:16)
=================================
Serbia should leave it.
Biting into a rotten apple will only give you a bad taste in your mouth.
Whether Serbia chooses the former or the latter, it's good for Kosovo either way.
(icj1, 19 March 2013 04:41)
---------------------------
Why is that? According to you guys Serbia is insignificant and doesn't impact on Kosovo in any way.
So what does it matter and how can Kosovo benefit from either one?
Serbia demonstrated its readiness to make great concessions, he stated, and added that this was evident in the fact that the original Kosovo platform, drafted by President Tomislav Nikolić, had been "softened".
BS! The so-called platform is a maximum wishlist with no link to reality. Serbia has done nothing which can be called a concession, but slowly only recognized reality on the ground. There is no chance that there will be a change of Kosovo's stance when it comes to her interests and freedom is not negotiable.
So it is now up to you. You can give up EU path or start making real concessions. That are the only things on the table.
A stalemate has been reached. No further progress on the Kosovo dilemma can be made without concessions/compromises from either side.
Serbia has made it clear that it will never recognise an independent Kosovo and Kosovo is secure in the knowledge that it's quest for independence is being backed by the US and the EU.
Serbia now needs to make up the balance and decide where it wants to go from here.
Either give in and move on or keep spending political time and billions of Euros by hanging on to a pipe dream of reunification. I say pipe dream because everyone knows and as much as this maybe regrettable to the Serbian people, that this will never happen.
This guy is so irrelevant in Serbian political leadership. He is trying to play the Serbia president,prime minister, chairman of parlament....Serbia's unilateral platform means nothing to parties involved in the so called talks and this doesnt seem to get it!
You have to wonder who they are making these statements too. Pristina has nothing to gain from the negotiations, the west has nothing to gain by continuing. EU would like for the balkans as a whole to join but if Serbia does not it only means isolation for Serbia, which in turn makes it less attractive for business deals with China and Russia or anywhere else. People on this forum keep saying Serbia should turn to China and Russia but unless it is a good business decision for them they will have nothing to do with it.
Some of the serbian commentators are writing that "serbia has made enough concessions". Pardon my ignorance, but it would be very informative if one of you would list these "many concessions" already done by Serbia.
Keep in mind that the EU is not trying to join Serbia. Its Serbia that is trying to join the EU, therefore rules of enganment are a prerequisite that unfortunately need to be fulfilled beforehand. Additionally, the arguments like "our government is working hard, therefore we deserve a start date" are at best naive if not insane.
Hi Serbian posters! Did your little government mention to you that Force 17 is on the way soon? This is a big deal to have US soldiers patrolling the north. Have fun causing trouble, erecting barricades, shooting at US soldiers. They will show you where your place is...
EU would like for the balkans as a whole to join but if Serbia does not it only means isolation for Serbia, which in turn makes it less attractive for business deals"
For the EU the Balkan except Croatia is of non-interest at all. There is no industry, no great agriculture, no educated people-only endless tensions among the villagers. In the West nobody has an idea how it looks in Serbia and other small places. The EU cannot bring Serbia out of its own mental isolationwith its strange ideas about the outside world. Also Russia and China are taking Serbia only as munition for their little games with US/EU.The key are the serbs to create a real Serb nation without permanent looking on the next village and putting all the little questions "Why it is allowed to them and not to us". The Serbs are wating for a Messiah in Brussels, but there are only selfish pure capitalists with global interests. No villagers with interest in smallest affairs.
It's in the EU interest for Serbia to join. The more holes it fills within the body of Europe the more secure and stable it is. As a matter of fact, it needs to do so very quickly or risk further deterioration. One only needs to look to the rushed joining of Bulgaria/Romania and the fact that it did absolutely negligible harm to the EU, but actually enlaged it and secured it a little more. Serbia needs to be aware of that during these negotiations. Once it is, there will be a lot less stress on everyone.
But now, according to Pantić, "Serbia is done with making concessions".
International negotiations are like with a private busines making a deal, both sides are giving something and getting something. Now we are informed that the Albanian side has nothing given but the Serb side was making concessions. But why? Little children are knowing this how to make deals with toys etc but not Dacic, Nikolic and Vucic. The declared many times what is nothing important to declare: the result of negotiations is a compromise. But the Serb leaders are declearing that they are ready to offer somethin which is "painful" for the Serbs. The Albanians would never say such stupid words. If you see the history of international agreements, each side will at the end only highlight what they gained in real terms. The Serb side is before the deal highlighting the loss (the "painful" decisions). For a good player, and this are the Albanians, he would not give anything to somebody who is showing you the weakness of his position. There are many textbooks how to negotiate. Possibly somebody could sent it to the Serb leaders, but the question is: would they read it, or understand the content (alos Kostunica with his religious believe in legal affairs could read some books)? My feeling is ot the best answering this questions.
Again and again and again. We here the Serbs speak with dignity, integrity and firmness. We see the concessions they make. The Albanians do nothing, they say nothing and they make no concessions. They just sit on Ashton's lap and let mommy take care of them and make big noises about how their Uncle Sam is going to beat up anyone up who makes do what they don't want to do.
So it is now up to you. You can give up EU path or start making real concessions. That are the only things on the table.
(John, 18 March 2013 13:33)
---------------------------------
You mean capitulate or give up on EU?
Any more concessions and it's capitulation. Which Serbia politician is brave enough to do that?
The biggest concession is having the guts to seat at the same table with Albanian hypocrites.
(MARY, 18 March 2013 19:15)
You could not have sum up in better words how few Serbs have given in this negotiations. You were just sitting there and hoping for a miracle. Please forward this statement to anybody who is involved in that talk.
You mean capitulate or give up on EU?
Any more concessions and it's capitulation. Which Serbia politician is brave enough to do that?
(Peggy, 18 March 2013 20:48)
Which concessions? Serbia is obstructing Kosovo wherever she can. Serbia's "concessions" are just bargaining chips for closing into the EU membership process. Everybody can see that. Now, the Albanian side has drawn a line that it is not accepting this any more which is completely understandable, especially when reflecting that the clear majority in EU and world-wide recognizes Kosovo's independence. Even officials in several EU states have stated numerous times that recognition is the last logical step before joining the EU and that a 2nd Cyprus disaster will not be accepted.
This is the red line of many EU states and they will not capitulate in front of Serbia. Why should they anyway? They don't need that Balkan country. It is Serbia who wants to to join.
This is why the options are as they are. Take it or leave it.
This is why the options are as they are. Take it or leave it.
(John, 19 March 2013 09:16)
=================================
Serbia should leave it.
Biting into a rotten apple will only give you a bad taste in your mouth.
Whether Serbia chooses the former or the latter, it's good for Kosovo either way.
(icj1, 19 March 2013 04:41)
---------------------------
Why is that? According to you guys Serbia is insignificant and doesn't impact on Kosovo in any way.
So what does it matter and how can Kosovo benefit from either one?
@Captain America, 18 March 2013 17:28 - There's less going on here than meets the eye - with the withdrawal from Iraq and drawdown in Afghanistan, the Regular Army and the National Guard are simply returning to their normal roles, where the Army, Navy, etc. handle oversea assignments and the National Guard prepares to defend the homeland. That has always meant, in my experience, dealing with natural disasters and the occasional riot. The rules of engagement won't change simply because the units have. If they're told to shoot, they will, and if they're told not to, they won't.
Serbia should leave it.
Biting into a rotten apple will only give you a bad taste in your mouth.
(Peggy, 19 March 2013 13:52)
I'm sure that a diaspora Serb like you will support that, since you don't have to deal with the consequences, but ok, this is your opinion.
Then why neither the PM nor the president says so? Did not Nikolic state that a referendum is necessary to determine the path? Now he is president and no referendum. In fact, all parties (except maybe for DSS) head for the EU, despite the clear statements that EU can only become true when Kosovo is recognized. Are Serbian politicians blind, stupid, naive or all together? Or are they not that stupid and try to hold this bargaining chip for the final stage? That reminds of Dacic statement:
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