24

Wednesday, 13.03.2013.

14:35

"Serbia's top priority is to break free from EU blackmail"

Opposition Democratic Party of Serbia (DSS) leader Vojislav Koštunica has once again warned that Serbia must reject EU's "ultimatums".

Izvor: Beta

"Serbia's top priority is to break free from EU blackmail" IMAGE SOURCE
IMAGE DESCRIPTION

24 Komentari

Sortiraj po:

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

If you went up against the Turks, why then did your lot change their religion?
Does the resistance join the other side?
(Peggy,
After 35 years of resistance,where 1/3 of albanians were killed the other 1/3 moved to Italy,Greece even as far as Ukraine,the rest of albanians had two alternatives to convert to Islam or to be killed.
30-40% of Greek population converted to Islam.Creta for example was islam for 300 years.
The fact that my family didnt convert to Islam is that we moved in mountains and formed new villages there,turks didnt set foot there for more 100-150 years.
Several parts of Albania where turks didnt set foot or was to expensieve to figh against natives,they left the people to be what they were.
In the cities or subarbs,was no other choice but to convert or die.

We didnt have the authonomy that serbs had.We were directly under Sultan while u guys had your nobels as buffer.
Our language was forbiden by Sultan and cursed.Only after 400 years Sultan decided to give the permition to open the firts school in Albanian in 1887.
Our price for the resistance was very high.

Before start badmouthing albanians again,I suggest u to go to Kruje and see with your eyes the castle and the museum of George Kastrioti and probably u may change your mind about albanians and their resistance against turks.

Peggy

pre 11 godina

@ Peggy,

U r wrong.I am an Orthodox Christian.
=========================

So were the rest of Albanians until they capitulated.
If you went up against the Turks, why then did your lot change their religion?
Does the resistance join the other side?

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

Mirel from Albania

You forgot to mention how many times Kastrioti served Murat and other Ottomans.He only went against them when it served his own interests.
(Leonidas, 14 March 2013 20:29)

@Leonidas,
I am not going to argue about the motives of George Kastriot, but he managed to unite albanian people and its leaders and beat ottomans every chance he had.

As for Ali Pasha,he is a positive figure in Greece,there is still a museum in Yannina to honour Ali Pasha.As for killing he killed more albanians than greeks,that's why he is not very popular in Albania.
If Ali Pasha was orthodox he would have been Greece National Hero.

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

(Mirel from Albania

You forgot to mention how many times Kastrioti served Murat and other Ottomans.He only went against them when it served his own interests.


Nikolle

You sound like the Turkish foreign minister Ahmed Davutoglu who has said many times the Ottoman empire was a multicultural and peaceful one.The massacres committed by the Ottomans gainst the Greek populations on the island of Chios,Crete,Peloponnese and the Pontian Greeks are second to none and even the Allies of World War I condemned the Ottoman government-sponsored massacres as crimes against humanity.

Ibrahim pasha was of Greek descent but you forgot to mention is the circumstances which led him into Turkey.He was abducted from Greece and sold as a slave to a palace in Anatolia.The rest is history.

The Ottoman empire was an unequal multicultural society but certainly not a peaceful one considering the genocides it committed against the Greeks,Armenians and Assyrians.

Dragan

pre 11 godina

There is no blackmail.

The club has rules - that's the way it works.
(Bob, 13 March 2013 19:46)

Yes, it has certain rules for Croats, albanians, and any other German bootlickers who helped them in the past. It has a different set of rules for Serbs, who helped destoy Nazism and collapse their empire twice in the last century.
Nice try Bob, but it's easy to see through your warped anti-Serb rubbish.
Cheers!!

Nikolle

pre 11 godina

At the risk of upsetting many here, truth is, ALL in the Balkans helped the Ottoman Empire. After all Leonidas, was it not Kantakouzenos who asked Orhan for help against Kalekas? He even gave him his own daughters hand in marriage. What ethnicity was Ibrahim Pasha do you think, Suleiman the Magnificent's grand vizier? Truth is, the Ottomans were a lot more tolerant than people in the Balkans will EVER care to admit. Many Western historians argue that life in Ottoman Greece, Ottoman Albania or for that matter Ottoman Serbia was a lot better than before they arrived. History should have no need for nationalism, it should just be a study of the past

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

@ Peggy,

U r wrong.I am an Orthodox Christian.
And George Kastriot was albanian,who fought for 25 years against turks till he died in Kruja and buried in Lezha heartland of Albania.
Albanians resisted 10 years after Kastrioti's death.

George Kastrioti waged 37 battles with turks winning 36 of them.He won even when the turks were led by Sultans,and he defeted 2 Sultans,Murat and Bajazit...

Everybony who has elementary education knows that.

Today albanians celebrate the Spring day,an acient pagan Day.Do you celebrate this in Serbia?No I dont think so

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

Rocky, 14 March 2013 02:09

Here is again the world renown Albanian historian Rocky stipulationg the Enver Hoxha concept of Balkan history.You're right Rocky,all Balkan nations are cowards apart from the brave and glorious Albanians who fought galliantly to liberate the Balkans from the Ottomans and we're deeply indebted to you.

Peggy

pre 11 godina

Albanians were the only people who fought fiercly against Ottomans for 35 years in the raw,and they paied the haviest price for their resistance.1/3 dead,1/3 in exile.
============================
You guys fought so hard that you spat on Christianity and converted to Islam as directed by the Turks.
Give me a break. It is us, Serbs who fought them. You capitulated and renounced Christ in order to please them.
Tell me I am wrong. You can't because you are Muslim and we are still Christian.

Rocky

pre 11 godina

Cheap Albanian aka modern Turks propaganda ???

The Greeks as all the Christian nations in the Balkans survived centuries of inhuman treatment by your Ottoman brothers and will survived the EU crisis.
(Leonidas, 13 March 2013 20:34)

Leo, when my Albanian forefathers took on the mighty ottomans head on, your Greek forefathers, which in my opinion were a lot of cowards, were bathing in luxury, after they were paid off by the Ottoman Empire, for Greek treachery & collaboration! It was the Greeks, & also the Serbs led by George. Brankovic which allowed passage thru lands controlled by them, in-order that the ottomans could mount their attacks on Albanian inhabited lands! In 1453, When our mighty & nobel king-warrior Gjergi Kastrioti AKA- Scanderbeg, led a force of Albanian fighters to go and defend Constantinople, it was George brankovic in a passage way thru a gorge in Serbia, which thru a act of treachery, denied Scanderbeg passage thru Serbia, because brankovic had entered into a alliance with his like-kind Turk Cowards! Brankovic, even arranged for his daughter to wed the sultan himself, as a token of his allegiance to the ottomans! He even sent many serbian fighters to bring about the downfall of Constantinople! Here is a couple of links for you to educate your brain Leo! I'll be back! http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Albulena#section_1
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanderbeg#section_3
http://www.wegm.com/coins/georgebrankovic.htm

Schlomo

pre 11 godina

Kostunica is right. In any case, this so-called independance is only temporary, before everyone forgets about Albania once again.

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

(Mirel from Albania, 13 March 2013 21:39)

Muslim Albanians enjoyed certain financial privileges under the Ottomans and acted mainly as their military enforcers against Christian populations.There were several atrocities carried out by the Turks against Greeks, often with the collaboration of Albanian units of the Ottoman army during the Greek war of independence.The Albanians decided to declare independence in 1912 after they concluded that Greece,Serbia,Montenegro and Bulgaria had already finished the Ottomans off.As for Kastriotis,he was first and formost a champion against Turkism and Islam, who loved Byzantium and made its flag his own.

Now,to portray Ali Pasha(his name betrays his loyalties)as the initiator of Greek independence is like implying Hitler was the saviour of the Jews.But then again this what Enver Hoxha's history books are teaching Albanians.You forget the atrocities he committed against the revolting Greeks and French in Preveza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preveza

The seeds of the Greek revolution were planted much earlier in various places around the world by Greek diaspora people like Rigas Feraios,Kosmas Aitolos ,the creation of the friendly society(Filiki Eteria)and Alexander Ypsilantis.

If Albanians think that Greeks are bad what should Greeks think about Albanians? You acted on behalf of the Ottomans and later the Italians and Germans against the Greek populations causing thousands of deaths and deportations.Try to learn your history Mirel.

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

@Leonidas,

I am not arguing about greeks and their connection with acient greeks.
But you better take back the words about albanians and their "ottoman brothers".
Albanians were the only people who fought fiercly against Ottomans for 35 years in the raw,and they paied the haviest price for their resistance.1/3 dead,1/3 in exile.
While the othen christian nations in Balkan either were sabotaging George Kastriot Scanderbeg or were totally quiet at the time.
It was Ali Pasha of Yannina,an albanian, who planted the seeds for the Greek Revolution and suliotes or arvanites who did carry out what Ali Pasha started.They were all albanian by blood and language at the time.
And in 1831 because turks were afraid that albanians will rise after Greek Revolution excecuted ALL albanian Nobles in Manastiri (Bitola),after they traped them by gathering them in a "meeting" for negotiations.
Turky has the same bad reputation among albanians as has Greece or Serbia.
So please take back the word "ottoman brothers"

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

Rocky, 13 March

Greek politicians,like their Western counterparts, will promise anything just to get elected.They will pay people off, particularly government workers and constituents,in the form of generous benefits or pet projects but these clientelistic practices and the tax evasion committed by Greeks and immigrants still do not explain the huge debts incurred by the country.Corrupt politicians existed before Greece became an EU member but national debt was less than 50% of GDP.

I don't have any doubt in my mind the EU was created for the benefit of the few.Germany in particular acts as a vampire sucking the blood of the rest by lending them cheap money initially to buy their products and loading those countries with debt.The single currency is just an unmitigated disaster for the majority.

As to our Greekness Rocky modern Greeks landed from a spaceship 190 years ago.At the same time all ancient Greeks boarded in when it left the first cargo down and this is how they disappeared.

Cheap Albanian aka modern Turks propaganda and almost identical by the Fyromian government.The Greek nation is one Rocky,we continue the same culture as the ancient ones,we can speak,read,write their language and we honour them.The Greek nation is the oldest and probably the most glorious in Europe but it is still one.

The Greeks as all the Christian nations in the Balkans survived centuries of inhuman treatment by your Ottoman brothers and will survived the EU crisis.

Wellesley

pre 11 godina

As for Serbia rolling its sleeves, and protecting its fairytale interests in Kosova, that's just you wanting to instigate Serbia into more isolation!
(Rocky, 13 March 2013 18:52)

What about other countries that have repeatedly refused to join the EU because their own national interests were at stake? Switzerland? Iceland? Norway? Not to mention that the UK and Denmark are packing up.

Serbia is no Switzerland (worlds apart from it), but it is currently being underestimated by the EU, while the EU is overestimated by Serbians. And I support most views here, Serbia does not stand a chance in the EU, but don't think even for a second that FYROM, Kosovo, Bosnia and Albania are going anywhere either.

Lenard

pre 11 godina

The EU of 2013 with its immense economic problems is not the EU of the 70s and has no financial appeal to any potential entrant(shrinking budget)and one finds difficult to understand the reasons of the Serbian elites to join such a waning club. The streets in Brussels are paved with paving stones and not with gold and anyone telling you otherwise is lying. Leonidas very simple the have been politicians/bureaucrats will get a second chance in the unelected EU bureaucratic heaven. The political elite don't care about their country's only take care of their fat asses. Willing to sell out their country's and put the citizens in slavery as long as they get their ill-gotten slavery share. A lot will get 500-1000% increase in their EU incompetence salary. Like the old saying you rise to the level of your incompetence. Look at my Croatia barely 30% voted to join http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGA5SsrfJkE the EU out of all the eligible voters.

Rocky

pre 11 godina

Now now Leo, you need to relax a bit, tu might have a aneurism, the only reason your country is bankrupt, is because the citizens of Greece allow for corrupted politicians to take office, and then they do as they please! I'll bet the majority of Greek politicians in key governmental positions, are actually very wealthy!
As for Serbia rolling its sleeves, and protecting its fairytale interests in Kosova, that's just you wanting to instigate Serbia into more isolation! As a matter of fact, its your very own Greek government that is for allowing Kosova in becoming a EU member! Maybe not right at this time, but it won't be to much longer! Oh and Leo, please minus the nidas, Leonidas was a Spartan, a lot different from a Greek!
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/diplomacy-greece.msb

Veljko

pre 11 godina

@Leonidas
You are absolutely right, time is showing this to be true.
As for these Albanian posters here, man you guys are so brainwashed, I really feel sorry for you, your "allies" don't care for you my friends!

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

Getting that date is nothing but the start of a new round of blackmails of Serbia, and devastation of its economy and national interests. It doesn't take too much to understand that with this balance of power any solution of the Kosovo issue must go against Serbia's interests. EU the U.S. are direct sponsors in creating an independent Kosovo,"
B92


He's been saying the same things for some years now and to date he's been proved right.Daily statements by EU bueaucrats endorsed with new conditions testify to that.One thing certain is that Serbia will not be allowed even to start accession negotiations without agreeing with its aggressors the loss of Kosovo .

The EU of 2013 with its immense economic problems is not the EU of the 70s and has no financial appeal to any potential entrant(shrinking budget)and one finds difficult to understand the reasons of the Serbian elites to join such a waning club.The streets in Brussels are paved with paving stones and not with gold and anyone telling you otherwise is lying.

Serbia has only got to take a look at my country Greece and see the results of 30 years of EU membership.A debt default,more than 30% unemployment and 2 million of undocumented Islamist immigrants.

My advice to Serbs is roll your sleeves up and start working to build your country without endangering your national interests in Kosovo.The province has become a black hole for the West and they need an urgent solution for obvious reasons.There are more alternatives to EU.

Rocky

pre 11 godina

The EU and the U.S. are direct sponsors in creating an independent Kosovo," Koštunica stated.
No No, Kostunica you've got it all wrong! The people of Kosova are the original sponsors of a independent Kosova! The EU, and USA have only recognized Kosova as a independent nation once it was declared in 2008, and yes, now they support us! That's what allies do, they support each other!

EA

pre 11 godina

The USA and the EU are sponsors of Kosovo independence. Now it is tbe time for Koshtunica and Serbian polititins to either shut up or.........put up with it!

azir

pre 11 godina

Kosova has INDEPENDENCE?

THAT CAN'T BE.........

The Serb Diaspora had me believing this but now another Serb leader admits
Kosova is independent.

And here I was led to believe that Kosova could never have independence with out SERBIA'S RECOGNITION OR BLESSING............

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

Getting that date is nothing but the start of a new round of blackmails of Serbia, and devastation of its economy and national interests. It doesn't take too much to understand that with this balance of power any solution of the Kosovo issue must go against Serbia's interests. EU the U.S. are direct sponsors in creating an independent Kosovo,"
B92


He's been saying the same things for some years now and to date he's been proved right.Daily statements by EU bueaucrats endorsed with new conditions testify to that.One thing certain is that Serbia will not be allowed even to start accession negotiations without agreeing with its aggressors the loss of Kosovo .

The EU of 2013 with its immense economic problems is not the EU of the 70s and has no financial appeal to any potential entrant(shrinking budget)and one finds difficult to understand the reasons of the Serbian elites to join such a waning club.The streets in Brussels are paved with paving stones and not with gold and anyone telling you otherwise is lying.

Serbia has only got to take a look at my country Greece and see the results of 30 years of EU membership.A debt default,more than 30% unemployment and 2 million of undocumented Islamist immigrants.

My advice to Serbs is roll your sleeves up and start working to build your country without endangering your national interests in Kosovo.The province has become a black hole for the West and they need an urgent solution for obvious reasons.There are more alternatives to EU.

azir

pre 11 godina

Kosova has INDEPENDENCE?

THAT CAN'T BE.........

The Serb Diaspora had me believing this but now another Serb leader admits
Kosova is independent.

And here I was led to believe that Kosova could never have independence with out SERBIA'S RECOGNITION OR BLESSING............

Rocky

pre 11 godina

The EU and the U.S. are direct sponsors in creating an independent Kosovo," Koštunica stated.
No No, Kostunica you've got it all wrong! The people of Kosova are the original sponsors of a independent Kosova! The EU, and USA have only recognized Kosova as a independent nation once it was declared in 2008, and yes, now they support us! That's what allies do, they support each other!

EA

pre 11 godina

The USA and the EU are sponsors of Kosovo independence. Now it is tbe time for Koshtunica and Serbian polititins to either shut up or.........put up with it!

Veljko

pre 11 godina

@Leonidas
You are absolutely right, time is showing this to be true.
As for these Albanian posters here, man you guys are so brainwashed, I really feel sorry for you, your "allies" don't care for you my friends!

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

Rocky, 13 March

Greek politicians,like their Western counterparts, will promise anything just to get elected.They will pay people off, particularly government workers and constituents,in the form of generous benefits or pet projects but these clientelistic practices and the tax evasion committed by Greeks and immigrants still do not explain the huge debts incurred by the country.Corrupt politicians existed before Greece became an EU member but national debt was less than 50% of GDP.

I don't have any doubt in my mind the EU was created for the benefit of the few.Germany in particular acts as a vampire sucking the blood of the rest by lending them cheap money initially to buy their products and loading those countries with debt.The single currency is just an unmitigated disaster for the majority.

As to our Greekness Rocky modern Greeks landed from a spaceship 190 years ago.At the same time all ancient Greeks boarded in when it left the first cargo down and this is how they disappeared.

Cheap Albanian aka modern Turks propaganda and almost identical by the Fyromian government.The Greek nation is one Rocky,we continue the same culture as the ancient ones,we can speak,read,write their language and we honour them.The Greek nation is the oldest and probably the most glorious in Europe but it is still one.

The Greeks as all the Christian nations in the Balkans survived centuries of inhuman treatment by your Ottoman brothers and will survived the EU crisis.

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

@Leonidas,

I am not arguing about greeks and their connection with acient greeks.
But you better take back the words about albanians and their "ottoman brothers".
Albanians were the only people who fought fiercly against Ottomans for 35 years in the raw,and they paied the haviest price for their resistance.1/3 dead,1/3 in exile.
While the othen christian nations in Balkan either were sabotaging George Kastriot Scanderbeg or were totally quiet at the time.
It was Ali Pasha of Yannina,an albanian, who planted the seeds for the Greek Revolution and suliotes or arvanites who did carry out what Ali Pasha started.They were all albanian by blood and language at the time.
And in 1831 because turks were afraid that albanians will rise after Greek Revolution excecuted ALL albanian Nobles in Manastiri (Bitola),after they traped them by gathering them in a "meeting" for negotiations.
Turky has the same bad reputation among albanians as has Greece or Serbia.
So please take back the word "ottoman brothers"

Wellesley

pre 11 godina

As for Serbia rolling its sleeves, and protecting its fairytale interests in Kosova, that's just you wanting to instigate Serbia into more isolation!
(Rocky, 13 March 2013 18:52)

What about other countries that have repeatedly refused to join the EU because their own national interests were at stake? Switzerland? Iceland? Norway? Not to mention that the UK and Denmark are packing up.

Serbia is no Switzerland (worlds apart from it), but it is currently being underestimated by the EU, while the EU is overestimated by Serbians. And I support most views here, Serbia does not stand a chance in the EU, but don't think even for a second that FYROM, Kosovo, Bosnia and Albania are going anywhere either.

Lenard

pre 11 godina

The EU of 2013 with its immense economic problems is not the EU of the 70s and has no financial appeal to any potential entrant(shrinking budget)and one finds difficult to understand the reasons of the Serbian elites to join such a waning club. The streets in Brussels are paved with paving stones and not with gold and anyone telling you otherwise is lying. Leonidas very simple the have been politicians/bureaucrats will get a second chance in the unelected EU bureaucratic heaven. The political elite don't care about their country's only take care of their fat asses. Willing to sell out their country's and put the citizens in slavery as long as they get their ill-gotten slavery share. A lot will get 500-1000% increase in their EU incompetence salary. Like the old saying you rise to the level of your incompetence. Look at my Croatia barely 30% voted to join http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGA5SsrfJkE the EU out of all the eligible voters.

Peggy

pre 11 godina

Albanians were the only people who fought fiercly against Ottomans for 35 years in the raw,and they paied the haviest price for their resistance.1/3 dead,1/3 in exile.
============================
You guys fought so hard that you spat on Christianity and converted to Islam as directed by the Turks.
Give me a break. It is us, Serbs who fought them. You capitulated and renounced Christ in order to please them.
Tell me I am wrong. You can't because you are Muslim and we are still Christian.

Rocky

pre 11 godina

Now now Leo, you need to relax a bit, tu might have a aneurism, the only reason your country is bankrupt, is because the citizens of Greece allow for corrupted politicians to take office, and then they do as they please! I'll bet the majority of Greek politicians in key governmental positions, are actually very wealthy!
As for Serbia rolling its sleeves, and protecting its fairytale interests in Kosova, that's just you wanting to instigate Serbia into more isolation! As a matter of fact, its your very own Greek government that is for allowing Kosova in becoming a EU member! Maybe not right at this time, but it won't be to much longer! Oh and Leo, please minus the nidas, Leonidas was a Spartan, a lot different from a Greek!
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/diplomacy-greece.msb

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

Rocky, 14 March 2013 02:09

Here is again the world renown Albanian historian Rocky stipulationg the Enver Hoxha concept of Balkan history.You're right Rocky,all Balkan nations are cowards apart from the brave and glorious Albanians who fought galliantly to liberate the Balkans from the Ottomans and we're deeply indebted to you.

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

(Mirel from Albania, 13 March 2013 21:39)

Muslim Albanians enjoyed certain financial privileges under the Ottomans and acted mainly as their military enforcers against Christian populations.There were several atrocities carried out by the Turks against Greeks, often with the collaboration of Albanian units of the Ottoman army during the Greek war of independence.The Albanians decided to declare independence in 1912 after they concluded that Greece,Serbia,Montenegro and Bulgaria had already finished the Ottomans off.As for Kastriotis,he was first and formost a champion against Turkism and Islam, who loved Byzantium and made its flag his own.

Now,to portray Ali Pasha(his name betrays his loyalties)as the initiator of Greek independence is like implying Hitler was the saviour of the Jews.But then again this what Enver Hoxha's history books are teaching Albanians.You forget the atrocities he committed against the revolting Greeks and French in Preveza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preveza

The seeds of the Greek revolution were planted much earlier in various places around the world by Greek diaspora people like Rigas Feraios,Kosmas Aitolos ,the creation of the friendly society(Filiki Eteria)and Alexander Ypsilantis.

If Albanians think that Greeks are bad what should Greeks think about Albanians? You acted on behalf of the Ottomans and later the Italians and Germans against the Greek populations causing thousands of deaths and deportations.Try to learn your history Mirel.

Schlomo

pre 11 godina

Kostunica is right. In any case, this so-called independance is only temporary, before everyone forgets about Albania once again.

Dragan

pre 11 godina

There is no blackmail.

The club has rules - that's the way it works.
(Bob, 13 March 2013 19:46)

Yes, it has certain rules for Croats, albanians, and any other German bootlickers who helped them in the past. It has a different set of rules for Serbs, who helped destoy Nazism and collapse their empire twice in the last century.
Nice try Bob, but it's easy to see through your warped anti-Serb rubbish.
Cheers!!

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

@ Peggy,

U r wrong.I am an Orthodox Christian.
And George Kastriot was albanian,who fought for 25 years against turks till he died in Kruja and buried in Lezha heartland of Albania.
Albanians resisted 10 years after Kastrioti's death.

George Kastrioti waged 37 battles with turks winning 36 of them.He won even when the turks were led by Sultans,and he defeted 2 Sultans,Murat and Bajazit...

Everybony who has elementary education knows that.

Today albanians celebrate the Spring day,an acient pagan Day.Do you celebrate this in Serbia?No I dont think so

Rocky

pre 11 godina

Cheap Albanian aka modern Turks propaganda ???

The Greeks as all the Christian nations in the Balkans survived centuries of inhuman treatment by your Ottoman brothers and will survived the EU crisis.
(Leonidas, 13 March 2013 20:34)

Leo, when my Albanian forefathers took on the mighty ottomans head on, your Greek forefathers, which in my opinion were a lot of cowards, were bathing in luxury, after they were paid off by the Ottoman Empire, for Greek treachery & collaboration! It was the Greeks, & also the Serbs led by George. Brankovic which allowed passage thru lands controlled by them, in-order that the ottomans could mount their attacks on Albanian inhabited lands! In 1453, When our mighty & nobel king-warrior Gjergi Kastrioti AKA- Scanderbeg, led a force of Albanian fighters to go and defend Constantinople, it was George brankovic in a passage way thru a gorge in Serbia, which thru a act of treachery, denied Scanderbeg passage thru Serbia, because brankovic had entered into a alliance with his like-kind Turk Cowards! Brankovic, even arranged for his daughter to wed the sultan himself, as a token of his allegiance to the ottomans! He even sent many serbian fighters to bring about the downfall of Constantinople! Here is a couple of links for you to educate your brain Leo! I'll be back! http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Albulena#section_1
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanderbeg#section_3
http://www.wegm.com/coins/georgebrankovic.htm

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

(Mirel from Albania

You forgot to mention how many times Kastrioti served Murat and other Ottomans.He only went against them when it served his own interests.


Nikolle

You sound like the Turkish foreign minister Ahmed Davutoglu who has said many times the Ottoman empire was a multicultural and peaceful one.The massacres committed by the Ottomans gainst the Greek populations on the island of Chios,Crete,Peloponnese and the Pontian Greeks are second to none and even the Allies of World War I condemned the Ottoman government-sponsored massacres as crimes against humanity.

Ibrahim pasha was of Greek descent but you forgot to mention is the circumstances which led him into Turkey.He was abducted from Greece and sold as a slave to a palace in Anatolia.The rest is history.

The Ottoman empire was an unequal multicultural society but certainly not a peaceful one considering the genocides it committed against the Greeks,Armenians and Assyrians.

Peggy

pre 11 godina

@ Peggy,

U r wrong.I am an Orthodox Christian.
=========================

So were the rest of Albanians until they capitulated.
If you went up against the Turks, why then did your lot change their religion?
Does the resistance join the other side?

Nikolle

pre 11 godina

At the risk of upsetting many here, truth is, ALL in the Balkans helped the Ottoman Empire. After all Leonidas, was it not Kantakouzenos who asked Orhan for help against Kalekas? He even gave him his own daughters hand in marriage. What ethnicity was Ibrahim Pasha do you think, Suleiman the Magnificent's grand vizier? Truth is, the Ottomans were a lot more tolerant than people in the Balkans will EVER care to admit. Many Western historians argue that life in Ottoman Greece, Ottoman Albania or for that matter Ottoman Serbia was a lot better than before they arrived. History should have no need for nationalism, it should just be a study of the past

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

Mirel from Albania

You forgot to mention how many times Kastrioti served Murat and other Ottomans.He only went against them when it served his own interests.
(Leonidas, 14 March 2013 20:29)

@Leonidas,
I am not going to argue about the motives of George Kastriot, but he managed to unite albanian people and its leaders and beat ottomans every chance he had.

As for Ali Pasha,he is a positive figure in Greece,there is still a museum in Yannina to honour Ali Pasha.As for killing he killed more albanians than greeks,that's why he is not very popular in Albania.
If Ali Pasha was orthodox he would have been Greece National Hero.

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

If you went up against the Turks, why then did your lot change their religion?
Does the resistance join the other side?
(Peggy,
After 35 years of resistance,where 1/3 of albanians were killed the other 1/3 moved to Italy,Greece even as far as Ukraine,the rest of albanians had two alternatives to convert to Islam or to be killed.
30-40% of Greek population converted to Islam.Creta for example was islam for 300 years.
The fact that my family didnt convert to Islam is that we moved in mountains and formed new villages there,turks didnt set foot there for more 100-150 years.
Several parts of Albania where turks didnt set foot or was to expensieve to figh against natives,they left the people to be what they were.
In the cities or subarbs,was no other choice but to convert or die.

We didnt have the authonomy that serbs had.We were directly under Sultan while u guys had your nobels as buffer.
Our language was forbiden by Sultan and cursed.Only after 400 years Sultan decided to give the permition to open the firts school in Albanian in 1887.
Our price for the resistance was very high.

Before start badmouthing albanians again,I suggest u to go to Kruje and see with your eyes the castle and the museum of George Kastrioti and probably u may change your mind about albanians and their resistance against turks.

Rocky

pre 11 godina

The EU and the U.S. are direct sponsors in creating an independent Kosovo," Koštunica stated.
No No, Kostunica you've got it all wrong! The people of Kosova are the original sponsors of a independent Kosova! The EU, and USA have only recognized Kosova as a independent nation once it was declared in 2008, and yes, now they support us! That's what allies do, they support each other!

azir

pre 11 godina

Kosova has INDEPENDENCE?

THAT CAN'T BE.........

The Serb Diaspora had me believing this but now another Serb leader admits
Kosova is independent.

And here I was led to believe that Kosova could never have independence with out SERBIA'S RECOGNITION OR BLESSING............

EA

pre 11 godina

The USA and the EU are sponsors of Kosovo independence. Now it is tbe time for Koshtunica and Serbian polititins to either shut up or.........put up with it!

Rocky

pre 11 godina

Now now Leo, you need to relax a bit, tu might have a aneurism, the only reason your country is bankrupt, is because the citizens of Greece allow for corrupted politicians to take office, and then they do as they please! I'll bet the majority of Greek politicians in key governmental positions, are actually very wealthy!
As for Serbia rolling its sleeves, and protecting its fairytale interests in Kosova, that's just you wanting to instigate Serbia into more isolation! As a matter of fact, its your very own Greek government that is for allowing Kosova in becoming a EU member! Maybe not right at this time, but it won't be to much longer! Oh and Leo, please minus the nidas, Leonidas was a Spartan, a lot different from a Greek!
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/diplomacy-greece.msb

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

Getting that date is nothing but the start of a new round of blackmails of Serbia, and devastation of its economy and national interests. It doesn't take too much to understand that with this balance of power any solution of the Kosovo issue must go against Serbia's interests. EU the U.S. are direct sponsors in creating an independent Kosovo,"
B92


He's been saying the same things for some years now and to date he's been proved right.Daily statements by EU bueaucrats endorsed with new conditions testify to that.One thing certain is that Serbia will not be allowed even to start accession negotiations without agreeing with its aggressors the loss of Kosovo .

The EU of 2013 with its immense economic problems is not the EU of the 70s and has no financial appeal to any potential entrant(shrinking budget)and one finds difficult to understand the reasons of the Serbian elites to join such a waning club.The streets in Brussels are paved with paving stones and not with gold and anyone telling you otherwise is lying.

Serbia has only got to take a look at my country Greece and see the results of 30 years of EU membership.A debt default,more than 30% unemployment and 2 million of undocumented Islamist immigrants.

My advice to Serbs is roll your sleeves up and start working to build your country without endangering your national interests in Kosovo.The province has become a black hole for the West and they need an urgent solution for obvious reasons.There are more alternatives to EU.

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

@Leonidas,

I am not arguing about greeks and their connection with acient greeks.
But you better take back the words about albanians and their "ottoman brothers".
Albanians were the only people who fought fiercly against Ottomans for 35 years in the raw,and they paied the haviest price for their resistance.1/3 dead,1/3 in exile.
While the othen christian nations in Balkan either were sabotaging George Kastriot Scanderbeg or were totally quiet at the time.
It was Ali Pasha of Yannina,an albanian, who planted the seeds for the Greek Revolution and suliotes or arvanites who did carry out what Ali Pasha started.They were all albanian by blood and language at the time.
And in 1831 because turks were afraid that albanians will rise after Greek Revolution excecuted ALL albanian Nobles in Manastiri (Bitola),after they traped them by gathering them in a "meeting" for negotiations.
Turky has the same bad reputation among albanians as has Greece or Serbia.
So please take back the word "ottoman brothers"

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

Rocky, 13 March

Greek politicians,like their Western counterparts, will promise anything just to get elected.They will pay people off, particularly government workers and constituents,in the form of generous benefits or pet projects but these clientelistic practices and the tax evasion committed by Greeks and immigrants still do not explain the huge debts incurred by the country.Corrupt politicians existed before Greece became an EU member but national debt was less than 50% of GDP.

I don't have any doubt in my mind the EU was created for the benefit of the few.Germany in particular acts as a vampire sucking the blood of the rest by lending them cheap money initially to buy their products and loading those countries with debt.The single currency is just an unmitigated disaster for the majority.

As to our Greekness Rocky modern Greeks landed from a spaceship 190 years ago.At the same time all ancient Greeks boarded in when it left the first cargo down and this is how they disappeared.

Cheap Albanian aka modern Turks propaganda and almost identical by the Fyromian government.The Greek nation is one Rocky,we continue the same culture as the ancient ones,we can speak,read,write their language and we honour them.The Greek nation is the oldest and probably the most glorious in Europe but it is still one.

The Greeks as all the Christian nations in the Balkans survived centuries of inhuman treatment by your Ottoman brothers and will survived the EU crisis.

Veljko

pre 11 godina

@Leonidas
You are absolutely right, time is showing this to be true.
As for these Albanian posters here, man you guys are so brainwashed, I really feel sorry for you, your "allies" don't care for you my friends!

Lenard

pre 11 godina

The EU of 2013 with its immense economic problems is not the EU of the 70s and has no financial appeal to any potential entrant(shrinking budget)and one finds difficult to understand the reasons of the Serbian elites to join such a waning club. The streets in Brussels are paved with paving stones and not with gold and anyone telling you otherwise is lying. Leonidas very simple the have been politicians/bureaucrats will get a second chance in the unelected EU bureaucratic heaven. The political elite don't care about their country's only take care of their fat asses. Willing to sell out their country's and put the citizens in slavery as long as they get their ill-gotten slavery share. A lot will get 500-1000% increase in their EU incompetence salary. Like the old saying you rise to the level of your incompetence. Look at my Croatia barely 30% voted to join http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGA5SsrfJkE the EU out of all the eligible voters.

Rocky

pre 11 godina

Cheap Albanian aka modern Turks propaganda ???

The Greeks as all the Christian nations in the Balkans survived centuries of inhuman treatment by your Ottoman brothers and will survived the EU crisis.
(Leonidas, 13 March 2013 20:34)

Leo, when my Albanian forefathers took on the mighty ottomans head on, your Greek forefathers, which in my opinion were a lot of cowards, were bathing in luxury, after they were paid off by the Ottoman Empire, for Greek treachery & collaboration! It was the Greeks, & also the Serbs led by George. Brankovic which allowed passage thru lands controlled by them, in-order that the ottomans could mount their attacks on Albanian inhabited lands! In 1453, When our mighty & nobel king-warrior Gjergi Kastrioti AKA- Scanderbeg, led a force of Albanian fighters to go and defend Constantinople, it was George brankovic in a passage way thru a gorge in Serbia, which thru a act of treachery, denied Scanderbeg passage thru Serbia, because brankovic had entered into a alliance with his like-kind Turk Cowards! Brankovic, even arranged for his daughter to wed the sultan himself, as a token of his allegiance to the ottomans! He even sent many serbian fighters to bring about the downfall of Constantinople! Here is a couple of links for you to educate your brain Leo! I'll be back! http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Albulena#section_1
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skanderbeg#section_3
http://www.wegm.com/coins/georgebrankovic.htm

Peggy

pre 11 godina

Albanians were the only people who fought fiercly against Ottomans for 35 years in the raw,and they paied the haviest price for their resistance.1/3 dead,1/3 in exile.
============================
You guys fought so hard that you spat on Christianity and converted to Islam as directed by the Turks.
Give me a break. It is us, Serbs who fought them. You capitulated and renounced Christ in order to please them.
Tell me I am wrong. You can't because you are Muslim and we are still Christian.

Nikolle

pre 11 godina

At the risk of upsetting many here, truth is, ALL in the Balkans helped the Ottoman Empire. After all Leonidas, was it not Kantakouzenos who asked Orhan for help against Kalekas? He even gave him his own daughters hand in marriage. What ethnicity was Ibrahim Pasha do you think, Suleiman the Magnificent's grand vizier? Truth is, the Ottomans were a lot more tolerant than people in the Balkans will EVER care to admit. Many Western historians argue that life in Ottoman Greece, Ottoman Albania or for that matter Ottoman Serbia was a lot better than before they arrived. History should have no need for nationalism, it should just be a study of the past

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

Mirel from Albania

You forgot to mention how many times Kastrioti served Murat and other Ottomans.He only went against them when it served his own interests.
(Leonidas, 14 March 2013 20:29)

@Leonidas,
I am not going to argue about the motives of George Kastriot, but he managed to unite albanian people and its leaders and beat ottomans every chance he had.

As for Ali Pasha,he is a positive figure in Greece,there is still a museum in Yannina to honour Ali Pasha.As for killing he killed more albanians than greeks,that's why he is not very popular in Albania.
If Ali Pasha was orthodox he would have been Greece National Hero.

Schlomo

pre 11 godina

Kostunica is right. In any case, this so-called independance is only temporary, before everyone forgets about Albania once again.

Dragan

pre 11 godina

There is no blackmail.

The club has rules - that's the way it works.
(Bob, 13 March 2013 19:46)

Yes, it has certain rules for Croats, albanians, and any other German bootlickers who helped them in the past. It has a different set of rules for Serbs, who helped destoy Nazism and collapse their empire twice in the last century.
Nice try Bob, but it's easy to see through your warped anti-Serb rubbish.
Cheers!!

Wellesley

pre 11 godina

As for Serbia rolling its sleeves, and protecting its fairytale interests in Kosova, that's just you wanting to instigate Serbia into more isolation!
(Rocky, 13 March 2013 18:52)

What about other countries that have repeatedly refused to join the EU because their own national interests were at stake? Switzerland? Iceland? Norway? Not to mention that the UK and Denmark are packing up.

Serbia is no Switzerland (worlds apart from it), but it is currently being underestimated by the EU, while the EU is overestimated by Serbians. And I support most views here, Serbia does not stand a chance in the EU, but don't think even for a second that FYROM, Kosovo, Bosnia and Albania are going anywhere either.

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

(Mirel from Albania, 13 March 2013 21:39)

Muslim Albanians enjoyed certain financial privileges under the Ottomans and acted mainly as their military enforcers against Christian populations.There were several atrocities carried out by the Turks against Greeks, often with the collaboration of Albanian units of the Ottoman army during the Greek war of independence.The Albanians decided to declare independence in 1912 after they concluded that Greece,Serbia,Montenegro and Bulgaria had already finished the Ottomans off.As for Kastriotis,he was first and formost a champion against Turkism and Islam, who loved Byzantium and made its flag his own.

Now,to portray Ali Pasha(his name betrays his loyalties)as the initiator of Greek independence is like implying Hitler was the saviour of the Jews.But then again this what Enver Hoxha's history books are teaching Albanians.You forget the atrocities he committed against the revolting Greeks and French in Preveza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preveza

The seeds of the Greek revolution were planted much earlier in various places around the world by Greek diaspora people like Rigas Feraios,Kosmas Aitolos ,the creation of the friendly society(Filiki Eteria)and Alexander Ypsilantis.

If Albanians think that Greeks are bad what should Greeks think about Albanians? You acted on behalf of the Ottomans and later the Italians and Germans against the Greek populations causing thousands of deaths and deportations.Try to learn your history Mirel.

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

Rocky, 14 March 2013 02:09

Here is again the world renown Albanian historian Rocky stipulationg the Enver Hoxha concept of Balkan history.You're right Rocky,all Balkan nations are cowards apart from the brave and glorious Albanians who fought galliantly to liberate the Balkans from the Ottomans and we're deeply indebted to you.

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

@ Peggy,

U r wrong.I am an Orthodox Christian.
And George Kastriot was albanian,who fought for 25 years against turks till he died in Kruja and buried in Lezha heartland of Albania.
Albanians resisted 10 years after Kastrioti's death.

George Kastrioti waged 37 battles with turks winning 36 of them.He won even when the turks were led by Sultans,and he defeted 2 Sultans,Murat and Bajazit...

Everybony who has elementary education knows that.

Today albanians celebrate the Spring day,an acient pagan Day.Do you celebrate this in Serbia?No I dont think so

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

(Mirel from Albania

You forgot to mention how many times Kastrioti served Murat and other Ottomans.He only went against them when it served his own interests.


Nikolle

You sound like the Turkish foreign minister Ahmed Davutoglu who has said many times the Ottoman empire was a multicultural and peaceful one.The massacres committed by the Ottomans gainst the Greek populations on the island of Chios,Crete,Peloponnese and the Pontian Greeks are second to none and even the Allies of World War I condemned the Ottoman government-sponsored massacres as crimes against humanity.

Ibrahim pasha was of Greek descent but you forgot to mention is the circumstances which led him into Turkey.He was abducted from Greece and sold as a slave to a palace in Anatolia.The rest is history.

The Ottoman empire was an unequal multicultural society but certainly not a peaceful one considering the genocides it committed against the Greeks,Armenians and Assyrians.

Peggy

pre 11 godina

@ Peggy,

U r wrong.I am an Orthodox Christian.
=========================

So were the rest of Albanians until they capitulated.
If you went up against the Turks, why then did your lot change their religion?
Does the resistance join the other side?

Mirel from Albania

pre 11 godina

If you went up against the Turks, why then did your lot change their religion?
Does the resistance join the other side?
(Peggy,
After 35 years of resistance,where 1/3 of albanians were killed the other 1/3 moved to Italy,Greece even as far as Ukraine,the rest of albanians had two alternatives to convert to Islam or to be killed.
30-40% of Greek population converted to Islam.Creta for example was islam for 300 years.
The fact that my family didnt convert to Islam is that we moved in mountains and formed new villages there,turks didnt set foot there for more 100-150 years.
Several parts of Albania where turks didnt set foot or was to expensieve to figh against natives,they left the people to be what they were.
In the cities or subarbs,was no other choice but to convert or die.

We didnt have the authonomy that serbs had.We were directly under Sultan while u guys had your nobels as buffer.
Our language was forbiden by Sultan and cursed.Only after 400 years Sultan decided to give the permition to open the firts school in Albanian in 1887.
Our price for the resistance was very high.

Before start badmouthing albanians again,I suggest u to go to Kruje and see with your eyes the castle and the museum of George Kastrioti and probably u may change your mind about albanians and their resistance against turks.