EPS to get "indirect moral support", but no money

Unbelievable, all these advisors talk about market framework, in other words EU market prices for products and services, but what about the salaries? Why don't they ever mention that? Serbia, which has higher food costs than many EU countries, pays equivalent cell and phone costs, clothing, etc., is expected to pay the same as the EU with a fraction of EU salaries. I think these public companies should find a better framework for the way they operate, to bring down their costs of operation - like stop hiring unnecessary employees as favors to friends and families, reduce high salaries that are out of line with the rest of the country, especially for senior management, and expand proficiency. There are plenty of way to save money in a public company, if one looks and really needs to. Personally, I would privatize the electric company. When there are managers that must answer to shareholders, it becomes a whole new ballgame. RTS, that is another money pit that should either be sold to private holders, or canned.

Danilo there is a difference between the bus service and electricity supply.

With the former people are disinclined to pay if the service is poor, the rolling stock is old, the buses are full or one is forced to breathe carcinogenic toxins like carbon monoxide inside the bus - thats not a joke btw.

But you are right that the price of electricity is low in Serbia, however, wages are also low. Its not always possible or desirable to set the world market rate for a product in countries that can't afford it. Then the taxpayer has to make up the difference.

On the other hand if the jobs were out there and wages were being paid...

Electricity in Serbia is cheap.

Locals here don't realize it, but it is.

At night, you pay as little as $0.015 USD/KWh

Electricity isn't that cheap.

So, the state is subsidizing it.

Prices will have to go up.

Seeing how people reacted when they were forced to actually pay for the bus, this probably won't work out well.

I wonder if another reason why the Minister of Economy & Finance refuses to loan the money to EPS is because even though Serbia has the money to bail out EPS doesn't mean that it can afford to bail out every single company or organization that's struggling financial wise,having mentioned that, Serbia is not a wealthy nation being the reason why it has to be careful in how to handle its finances.

Danilo, stop playing the fool. There are many people in Serbia, yes taxpayers, that cannot afford utilities. That is very sad. But there are also people in developed nations that cannot afford electricity, heating, etc. In that case, the government steps in, and helps. People that cannot pay for electricity are not left out in the cold or dark. In Serbia, the social system for assistance is not that good. You either have, or you do without. That is the problem. I don't care what they (EPS) charges for electricity, as long as Serbian salaries can afford it. At present, they cannot. It costs 72 dinars today to ride a bus/streetcar in BG, that's close to a dollar. Multiply that by 5 rides a week, round trip, and you have close to 3000 dinars a month, on and average salary of 30,000 dinars. Now, if you are already paying 10% of your wages simply to ride a streetcar, yes, any increase in your electricity bill will be a factor. Include your communal heating charges, phone, FOOD, etc., etc., and I think you get the picture. So please, stop with the electricity rate going up is justified, it is just another burden on citizens that already cannot survive.

Booking may be up for Croatian coastal holidays, Lenard, but most of those bookings are at hotels and resorts owned by foreign conglomerates, not Croatians. Yes, Croatia will get some tax revenue, but it will not get the majority of the money spent. Well, that's life in the EU. Did you think that Brussels would give you membership without a price to pay? Ziveli!

'What "taxpayer"?

you mean that the people who can't pay what it costs to really produce electricity because their wages are too low, should be taxed more to pay for that which they can't pay?'

Yes, and those people who can afford to pay are also taxed more to pay for the government effectively purchasing energy in order for the general public to have cheaper electricity bills.
That is the way taxes work, as you know.

Are you suggesting Danilo that we should adopt neo-liberalism where the government doesn't intervene and utility bills are set by the market?

And if the poor are unable to afford it, do you suggest cutting off their water and electricity supply?

You know things may not function here, but the answer is not some kind of free market utopia that wouldn't succeed anywhere in the world, let alone Serbia.

The end is close ...Serbia will crash as all the Balkan states...than we follow...Deutchland uber alles !

What "taxpayer"?

you mean that the people who can't pay what it costs to really produce electricity because their wages are too low, should be taxed more to pay for that which they can't pay?

oh.

It would make more sense to charge the real price, then give people welfare, if they need it.

either way, there's no magic money tree.

Danilo if the taxpayer pays either way then I'm really not sure what your point is. Sometimes I think you overreact, I hope you realise there are no simple solutions - even if you are correct in thinking that precious solutions are even attempted.

If you are suggesting privatisation for EPS then your argument makes more sense. However, welfare in Serbia would need to be expanded massively to make up for the shortfall.

Questioner yes the communistic system of water / heating is still in effect. Since there is no way to turn down the radiators, yes if they get it wrong that day and put it on full blast one has no choice but to open a window. That is only in cities and not everywhere though.

They trumpeted some special device that once could attach to the radiator to regulate its temperature, but to rent / use it turned out to be as if not more expensive than the current system for the end user. Haven't heard more about it, wouldn't be surprised if that lightbulb idea vanished into dust.

The end is close ...Serbia will crash as all the Balkan states...than we follow...Deutchland uber alles !
(Luigi, 7 February 2013 14:44) Luigi Italians never left following Deutchland as uber alles. Good news Luigi Holiday bookings to Croatia up 43% in 2013 from 2012 which was then the best year ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCxulFgT938 . Better hurry Luigi and make a booking before all is reserved to beautiful Croatia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hCazYqft-Y&NR=1. Even Serbs are coming 100% increase of schedule flights this year to Croatian coastal cities from Serbia.

One thing is clear: If prices are too low, people don't care for saving energy. A question: Is it still common in Serbia that people pay a fixed fee for water and heating? And still regulate the room temperature by opening the windows instead of turning down the heating?

Bganon.

You're saying that electricity prices should be subsidized to help the poor.

If you do that, you end up subsidizing the rich more than the poor, because they use more electricity (bigger houses, more toys).

The end is close ...Serbia will crash as all the Balkan states...than we follow...Deutchland uber alles !

What "taxpayer"?

you mean that the people who can't pay what it costs to really produce electricity because their wages are too low, should be taxed more to pay for that which they can't pay?

oh.

The end is close ...Serbia will crash as all the Balkan states...than we follow...Deutchland uber alles !
(Luigi, 7 February 2013 14:44) Luigi Italians never left following Deutchland as uber alles. Good news Luigi Holiday bookings to Croatia up 43% in 2013 from 2012 which was then the best year ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCxulFgT938 . Better hurry Luigi and make a booking before all is reserved to beautiful Croatia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hCazYqft-Y&NR=1. Even Serbs are coming 100% increase of schedule flights this year to Croatian coastal cities from Serbia.

Electricity in Serbia is cheap.

Locals here don't realize it, but it is.

At night, you pay as little as $0.015 USD/KWh

Electricity isn't that cheap.

So, the state is subsidizing it.

Prices will have to go up.

Seeing how people reacted when they were forced to actually pay for the bus, this probably won't work out well.

Booking may be up for Croatian coastal holidays, Lenard, but most of those bookings are at hotels and resorts owned by foreign conglomerates, not Croatians. Yes, Croatia will get some tax revenue, but it will not get the majority of the money spent. Well, that's life in the EU. Did you think that Brussels would give you membership without a price to pay? Ziveli!

'What "taxpayer"?

you mean that the people who can't pay what it costs to really produce electricity because their wages are too low, should be taxed more to pay for that which they can't pay?'

Yes, and those people who can afford to pay are also taxed more to pay for the government effectively purchasing energy in order for the general public to have cheaper electricity bills.
That is the way taxes work, as you know.

Are you suggesting Danilo that we should adopt neo-liberalism where the government doesn't intervene and utility bills are set by the market?

And if the poor are unable to afford it, do you suggest cutting off their water and electricity supply?

You know things may not function here, but the answer is not some kind of free market utopia that wouldn't succeed anywhere in the world, let alone Serbia.

Danilo there is a difference between the bus service and electricity supply.

With the former people are disinclined to pay if the service is poor, the rolling stock is old, the buses are full or one is forced to breathe carcinogenic toxins like carbon monoxide inside the bus - thats not a joke btw.

But you are right that the price of electricity is low in Serbia, however, wages are also low. Its not always possible or desirable to set the world market rate for a product in countries that can't afford it. Then the taxpayer has to make up the difference.

On the other hand if the jobs were out there and wages were being paid...

It would make more sense to charge the real price, then give people welfare, if they need it.

either way, there's no magic money tree.

One thing is clear: If prices are too low, people don't care for saving energy. A question: Is it still common in Serbia that people pay a fixed fee for water and heating? And still regulate the room temperature by opening the windows instead of turning down the heating?

Unbelievable, all these advisors talk about market framework, in other words EU market prices for products and services, but what about the salaries? Why don't they ever mention that? Serbia, which has higher food costs than many EU countries, pays equivalent cell and phone costs, clothing, etc., is expected to pay the same as the EU with a fraction of EU salaries. I think these public companies should find a better framework for the way they operate, to bring down their costs of operation - like stop hiring unnecessary employees as favors to friends and families, reduce high salaries that are out of line with the rest of the country, especially for senior management, and expand proficiency. There are plenty of way to save money in a public company, if one looks and really needs to. Personally, I would privatize the electric company. When there are managers that must answer to shareholders, it becomes a whole new ballgame. RTS, that is another money pit that should either be sold to private holders, or canned.

I wonder if another reason why the Minister of Economy & Finance refuses to loan the money to EPS is because even though Serbia has the money to bail out EPS doesn't mean that it can afford to bail out every single company or organization that's struggling financial wise,having mentioned that, Serbia is not a wealthy nation being the reason why it has to be careful in how to handle its finances.

Danilo, stop playing the fool. There are many people in Serbia, yes taxpayers, that cannot afford utilities. That is very sad. But there are also people in developed nations that cannot afford electricity, heating, etc. In that case, the government steps in, and helps. People that cannot pay for electricity are not left out in the cold or dark. In Serbia, the social system for assistance is not that good. You either have, or you do without. That is the problem. I don't care what they (EPS) charges for electricity, as long as Serbian salaries can afford it. At present, they cannot. It costs 72 dinars today to ride a bus/streetcar in BG, that's close to a dollar. Multiply that by 5 rides a week, round trip, and you have close to 3000 dinars a month, on and average salary of 30,000 dinars. Now, if you are already paying 10% of your wages simply to ride a streetcar, yes, any increase in your electricity bill will be a factor. Include your communal heating charges, phone, FOOD, etc., etc., and I think you get the picture. So please, stop with the electricity rate going up is justified, it is just another burden on citizens that already cannot survive.

Danilo if the taxpayer pays either way then I'm really not sure what your point is. Sometimes I think you overreact, I hope you realise there are no simple solutions - even if you are correct in thinking that precious solutions are even attempted.

If you are suggesting privatisation for EPS then your argument makes more sense. However, welfare in Serbia would need to be expanded massively to make up for the shortfall.

Questioner yes the communistic system of water / heating is still in effect. Since there is no way to turn down the radiators, yes if they get it wrong that day and put it on full blast one has no choice but to open a window. That is only in cities and not everywhere though.

They trumpeted some special device that once could attach to the radiator to regulate its temperature, but to rent / use it turned out to be as if not more expensive than the current system for the end user. Haven't heard more about it, wouldn't be surprised if that lightbulb idea vanished into dust.

Bganon.

You're saying that electricity prices should be subsidized to help the poor.

If you do that, you end up subsidizing the rich more than the poor, because they use more electricity (bigger houses, more toys).