- Turkish economy? Yes, it is growing fast, but from a very low level, it may take 10-20 years of this growth until average western European numbers are reached. If this 'economy' is not only a bubble that might burst soon is another question.-
Fast. It is booming. It would already be the 6th biggest economy if it was in the EU. And if GDP were 30 K as you supposed it would be the 2nd biggest economy right after Germany.
And for the migration. Currently thousands of Greeks migrated to Istanbul to find jobs. Dont expects Turks to move anywhere these days. You are welcome though.
- By all means. Say goodbye once and for all. Anf if Turkey is such a strong economy with such a high growth rate, why do illegal immigrants come swimming from the turkish coast to the greek islands or risk their lives through minefields in Evros? Why don't they just stay and work in Turkey?-
Because they are not Turkish immigrants. They are people from all over Africa and Asia and just passing by. I had my military duty in Greece border. Every year there were more than 10.000 immigrants held by Turkish authorities and send back. And that was just in one town.
-They are a nation that is historically engulfed in aggression and conflict.-
How pathetic you are. I suppose England, France and Germany were all peaceful countries which did no harm to each other. Angels on earth! And you are recommending China and Russia two most democratic and peaceful countries in the world not to take that aggressive and conflict lover country to their ranks.
Oh! Now I tremble to this fact. You are a holy man. Who can say the contrary, and who can object your truly serene comments.
Teach us more facts. Enlighten the world.
well thenasis, there's no point in pretending that Tureky is on the same democratic wavelength as its Western European counterparts. it obviously isn't. however, i hardly think Greece is the state to compare it to. according to last years Transparency International figures, Greece is actually more corrupt. not my problem. if you think they're wrong that's something else. however, i will stay say, having never been to either place, i can't possibly comment on where i'd prefer to live.
I'm not talking about mentalities of peoples dear Nikolle. I'm comparing the two states and there's much more to a state than economic figures. Greece is a democratic state with many imperfections but democratic nonetheless. Turkey on the other hand has a mountain to climb in order to become a western type democracy and i don't think it's in its best interest to do that. The economic figures may flourish in Turkey but that doesn't say much about the standard of living in Turkey or the level of its democracy. The problem with Turks is that they consider themselves a special case due to their size and geopolitical value. They want to join the EU but on their own terms without fulfilling any of the conditions required for other candidate states. In other words they want to remain a non democratic state and still join the EU. Well if the EU still stands for something other than economic figures this should not happen.
Some politicians in EU are afraid that if they accept Turkey in EU that would mean that Turkey would be put on wheels and all of a sudden Ankara will be 30km north of Paris.
"True, but the current government under Erdogan tries hard to change the constitution and secularism step by step and turn Turkey into an Islamist state."
True. And the best response to that is to engage with Turkey to support its progressive, secular elements. Saying "f-you Turkey" is the best thing you can to if you want to push Turkey into the arms of the Islamists.
"BTW, Arn, you write some bizarre stuff. Do you live in the 21st century?"
-I would say that he does yes and he mostly write ok. comments, but the confusion is why this Serb living in Sweden is so ashamed of his ancestry that he mixes up himself with a fictional figure from Swedish medieval history? That is the first we expect an Albanian to do, if they makes it into €USSR...
Never been to either Greece or Turkey so can't compare. I was mentioning economic data, Turkey is a lot more powerful than many EU states already. Fact. Not talking about the mentality of its people.
"Why would Turkey move to Mecca? Turkey is a secular state. Its secularism is defined in its constitution. "
(Danilo, 3 February 2013 19:24)
True, but the current government under Erdogan tries hard to change the constitution and secularism step by step and turn Turkey into an Islamist state.
"If Turks won't finally say goodbye to Erdogan and his neo-Islamist party and choose a modern, secular and democratic government, then there won't be any chance for an EU membership", Questioner warns.
Bizarre: I am not against Turkey joining the EU, I simply don't give a toss. The implication from what the Turkish PM said is that the EU needs to change its behaviour towards Turkey or they won't join. My point is the same as it is for Serbia; if you don't want join don't join.
Well Erdogan, you can't have your cake and eat it. If, say, Turkey did become a member it would be more powerful than France and Germany combined. I am not sure if that is a good thing.
Why would Turkey move to Mecca? Turkey is a secular state. Its secularism is defined in its constitution. You can't go to school, for example, or work in a government institution if you want to wear a headscarf or some symbol of Islam. Plus, it's an economic powerhouse these days, so I'm not sure how you infer that it's "going down"
Wow so many posters who have preached the evils of the EU and how Serbia would be better off not joining, are against Turkey joining. Very bizarre in the least.
(Bizarre, 3 February 2013 15:04)
Though i understand your confusion, it's different. If Turkey joins that entails an incredibly huge influx of actual turks into EU countries.
Why Serbia is better off without the EU is because that way they will have a bigger chance of getting their problems solved one way or another. It would improve the very moment they would revoke their status as candidate member as even candidate members have to meet ridiculous requirements like importing mass amounts of consumer goods at the cost of your own domnestic production sales and export, while the EU isnt obliged to import a single thing and even subsides their own export.
If serbia however were to join the EU i would welcome serbs in my country with open arms, we can celebrate the similarities between the Dutch and Serbian culture with a lot of Heineken and Rakija ^^
Hope that clears some of the confusion up about why at least I have this seemingly conflicting opinion.
Wow so many posters who have preached the evils of the EU and how Serbia would be better off not joining, are against Turkey joining. Very bizarre in the least.
No one i've ever spoken to in the Netherlands wants turkey to join, so if Turkey is to join the EU this has to go in against the will of at least 17000000 people.
actually, from what i can tell, there's mostly 'cultural' hesitation on the part of the EU that is keeping Turkey out. truth is, Turkey is one of the up and coming countries. its economy dwarfs that of many other EU states already, and unlike Greece, its not on the brink of bankruptcy. there is no denying that its lagging behind in many other aspects, none of them economical however (frankly so are Romania and Bulgaria but that didn't stop them being admitted in) but no sane person would seek to deny that we're talking about one powerful state
By all means. Say goodbye once and for all. Anf if Turkey is such a strong economy with such a high growth rate, why do illegal immigrants come swimming from the turkish coast to the greek islands or risk their lives through minefields in Evros? Why don't they just stay and work in Turkey?
Turkey is not in Europe, so why would it be in the EU? Most of the country lies in Asia, not to mention the Asian/Middle Eastern backward mentality of its people. Besides, the conflicts that Turkey has with Greece, the Kurds, the Armenians, the Israelis, and most recently Syria, would be quite a handful of disputes to bring with it into the EU. Like Germany says to Serbia in regards to Kosovo, you cannot bring your unresolved problems with you into the Union. But then, I do not see why the Russians and Chinese would want the Turks in their club either. They are a nation that is historically engulfed in aggression and conflict.
It's not only the Cyprus issue. There are many more points where Turkey under Islamist Erdogan is miles away from European standards, like religious freedom (no same rights for Christians), freedom of expression (100s of imprisoned journalists and opposition politicians), treatment of ethnic minorities (Kurds), the Armenian genocide denial, and many more.
But yes, Austrian politicians (and not only they, but people and politicians in many other EU countries, too) are quite happy that Turkey doesn't fulfill the conditions and progress regarding EU membership is stalled.
Turkish economy? Yes, it is growing fast, but from a very low level, it may take 10-20 years of this growth until average western European numbers are reached. If this 'economy' is not only a bubble that might burst soon is another question.
Turkey is not in Europe, so why would it be in the EU? Most of the country lies in Asia, not to mention the Asian/Middle Eastern backward mentality of its people. Besides, the conflicts that Turkey has with Greece, the Kurds, the Armenians, the Israelis, and most recently Syria, would be quite a handful of disputes to bring with it into the EU. Like Germany says to Serbia in regards to Kosovo, you cannot bring your unresolved problems with you into the Union. But then, I do not see why the Russians and Chinese would want the Turks in their club either. They are a nation that is historically engulfed in aggression and conflict.
By all means. Say goodbye once and for all. Anf if Turkey is such a strong economy with such a high growth rate, why do illegal immigrants come swimming from the turkish coast to the greek islands or risk their lives through minefields in Evros? Why don't they just stay and work in Turkey?
It's not only the Cyprus issue. There are many more points where Turkey under Islamist Erdogan is miles away from European standards, like religious freedom (no same rights for Christians), freedom of expression (100s of imprisoned journalists and opposition politicians), treatment of ethnic minorities (Kurds), the Armenian genocide denial, and many more.
But yes, Austrian politicians (and not only they, but people and politicians in many other EU countries, too) are quite happy that Turkey doesn't fulfill the conditions and progress regarding EU membership is stalled.
Turkish economy? Yes, it is growing fast, but from a very low level, it may take 10-20 years of this growth until average western European numbers are reached. If this 'economy' is not only a bubble that might burst soon is another question.
No one i've ever spoken to in the Netherlands wants turkey to join, so if Turkey is to join the EU this has to go in against the will of at least 17000000 people.
Wow so many posters who have preached the evils of the EU and how Serbia would be better off not joining, are against Turkey joining. Very bizarre in the least.
"Why would Turkey move to Mecca? Turkey is a secular state. Its secularism is defined in its constitution. "
(Danilo, 3 February 2013 19:24)
True, but the current government under Erdogan tries hard to change the constitution and secularism step by step and turn Turkey into an Islamist state.
actually, from what i can tell, there's mostly 'cultural' hesitation on the part of the EU that is keeping Turkey out. truth is, Turkey is one of the up and coming countries. its economy dwarfs that of many other EU states already, and unlike Greece, its not on the brink of bankruptcy. there is no denying that its lagging behind in many other aspects, none of them economical however (frankly so are Romania and Bulgaria but that didn't stop them being admitted in) but no sane person would seek to deny that we're talking about one powerful state
"If Turks won't finally say goodbye to Erdogan and his neo-Islamist party and choose a modern, secular and democratic government, then there won't be any chance for an EU membership", Questioner warns.
Wow so many posters who have preached the evils of the EU and how Serbia would be better off not joining, are against Turkey joining. Very bizarre in the least.
(Bizarre, 3 February 2013 15:04)
Though i understand your confusion, it's different. If Turkey joins that entails an incredibly huge influx of actual turks into EU countries.
Why Serbia is better off without the EU is because that way they will have a bigger chance of getting their problems solved one way or another. It would improve the very moment they would revoke their status as candidate member as even candidate members have to meet ridiculous requirements like importing mass amounts of consumer goods at the cost of your own domnestic production sales and export, while the EU isnt obliged to import a single thing and even subsides their own export.
If serbia however were to join the EU i would welcome serbs in my country with open arms, we can celebrate the similarities between the Dutch and Serbian culture with a lot of Heineken and Rakija ^^
Hope that clears some of the confusion up about why at least I have this seemingly conflicting opinion.
Bizarre: I am not against Turkey joining the EU, I simply don't give a toss. The implication from what the Turkish PM said is that the EU needs to change its behaviour towards Turkey or they won't join. My point is the same as it is for Serbia; if you don't want join don't join.
Why would Turkey move to Mecca? Turkey is a secular state. Its secularism is defined in its constitution. You can't go to school, for example, or work in a government institution if you want to wear a headscarf or some symbol of Islam. Plus, it's an economic powerhouse these days, so I'm not sure how you infer that it's "going down"
Well Erdogan, you can't have your cake and eat it. If, say, Turkey did become a member it would be more powerful than France and Germany combined. I am not sure if that is a good thing.
Never been to either Greece or Turkey so can't compare. I was mentioning economic data, Turkey is a lot more powerful than many EU states already. Fact. Not talking about the mentality of its people.
"True, but the current government under Erdogan tries hard to change the constitution and secularism step by step and turn Turkey into an Islamist state."
True. And the best response to that is to engage with Turkey to support its progressive, secular elements. Saying "f-you Turkey" is the best thing you can to if you want to push Turkey into the arms of the Islamists.
Some politicians in EU are afraid that if they accept Turkey in EU that would mean that Turkey would be put on wheels and all of a sudden Ankara will be 30km north of Paris.
"BTW, Arn, you write some bizarre stuff. Do you live in the 21st century?"
-I would say that he does yes and he mostly write ok. comments, but the confusion is why this Serb living in Sweden is so ashamed of his ancestry that he mixes up himself with a fictional figure from Swedish medieval history? That is the first we expect an Albanian to do, if they makes it into €USSR...
I'm not talking about mentalities of peoples dear Nikolle. I'm comparing the two states and there's much more to a state than economic figures. Greece is a democratic state with many imperfections but democratic nonetheless. Turkey on the other hand has a mountain to climb in order to become a western type democracy and i don't think it's in its best interest to do that. The economic figures may flourish in Turkey but that doesn't say much about the standard of living in Turkey or the level of its democracy. The problem with Turks is that they consider themselves a special case due to their size and geopolitical value. They want to join the EU but on their own terms without fulfilling any of the conditions required for other candidate states. In other words they want to remain a non democratic state and still join the EU. Well if the EU still stands for something other than economic figures this should not happen.
well thenasis, there's no point in pretending that Tureky is on the same democratic wavelength as its Western European counterparts. it obviously isn't. however, i hardly think Greece is the state to compare it to. according to last years Transparency International figures, Greece is actually more corrupt. not my problem. if you think they're wrong that's something else. however, i will stay say, having never been to either place, i can't possibly comment on where i'd prefer to live.
- By all means. Say goodbye once and for all. Anf if Turkey is such a strong economy with such a high growth rate, why do illegal immigrants come swimming from the turkish coast to the greek islands or risk their lives through minefields in Evros? Why don't they just stay and work in Turkey?-
Because they are not Turkish immigrants. They are people from all over Africa and Asia and just passing by. I had my military duty in Greece border. Every year there were more than 10.000 immigrants held by Turkish authorities and send back. And that was just in one town.
-They are a nation that is historically engulfed in aggression and conflict.-
How pathetic you are. I suppose England, France and Germany were all peaceful countries which did no harm to each other. Angels on earth! And you are recommending China and Russia two most democratic and peaceful countries in the world not to take that aggressive and conflict lover country to their ranks.
Oh! Now I tremble to this fact. You are a holy man. Who can say the contrary, and who can object your truly serene comments.
Teach us more facts. Enlighten the world.
- Turkish economy? Yes, it is growing fast, but from a very low level, it may take 10-20 years of this growth until average western European numbers are reached. If this 'economy' is not only a bubble that might burst soon is another question.-
Fast. It is booming. It would already be the 6th biggest economy if it was in the EU. And if GDP were 30 K as you supposed it would be the 2nd biggest economy right after Germany.
And for the migration. Currently thousands of Greeks migrated to Istanbul to find jobs. Dont expects Turks to move anywhere these days. You are welcome though.
actually, from what i can tell, there's mostly 'cultural' hesitation on the part of the EU that is keeping Turkey out. truth is, Turkey is one of the up and coming countries. its economy dwarfs that of many other EU states already, and unlike Greece, its not on the brink of bankruptcy. there is no denying that its lagging behind in many other aspects, none of them economical however (frankly so are Romania and Bulgaria but that didn't stop them being admitted in) but no sane person would seek to deny that we're talking about one powerful state
Why would Turkey move to Mecca? Turkey is a secular state. Its secularism is defined in its constitution. You can't go to school, for example, or work in a government institution if you want to wear a headscarf or some symbol of Islam. Plus, it's an economic powerhouse these days, so I'm not sure how you infer that it's "going down"
Turkey is not in Europe, so why would it be in the EU? Most of the country lies in Asia, not to mention the Asian/Middle Eastern backward mentality of its people. Besides, the conflicts that Turkey has with Greece, the Kurds, the Armenians, the Israelis, and most recently Syria, would be quite a handful of disputes to bring with it into the EU. Like Germany says to Serbia in regards to Kosovo, you cannot bring your unresolved problems with you into the Union. But then, I do not see why the Russians and Chinese would want the Turks in their club either. They are a nation that is historically engulfed in aggression and conflict.
By all means. Say goodbye once and for all. Anf if Turkey is such a strong economy with such a high growth rate, why do illegal immigrants come swimming from the turkish coast to the greek islands or risk their lives through minefields in Evros? Why don't they just stay and work in Turkey?
No one i've ever spoken to in the Netherlands wants turkey to join, so if Turkey is to join the EU this has to go in against the will of at least 17000000 people.
It's not only the Cyprus issue. There are many more points where Turkey under Islamist Erdogan is miles away from European standards, like religious freedom (no same rights for Christians), freedom of expression (100s of imprisoned journalists and opposition politicians), treatment of ethnic minorities (Kurds), the Armenian genocide denial, and many more.
But yes, Austrian politicians (and not only they, but people and politicians in many other EU countries, too) are quite happy that Turkey doesn't fulfill the conditions and progress regarding EU membership is stalled.
Turkish economy? Yes, it is growing fast, but from a very low level, it may take 10-20 years of this growth until average western European numbers are reached. If this 'economy' is not only a bubble that might burst soon is another question.
Well Erdogan, you can't have your cake and eat it. If, say, Turkey did become a member it would be more powerful than France and Germany combined. I am not sure if that is a good thing.
Wow so many posters who have preached the evils of the EU and how Serbia would be better off not joining, are against Turkey joining. Very bizarre in the least.
(Bizarre, 3 February 2013 15:04)
Though i understand your confusion, it's different. If Turkey joins that entails an incredibly huge influx of actual turks into EU countries.
Why Serbia is better off without the EU is because that way they will have a bigger chance of getting their problems solved one way or another. It would improve the very moment they would revoke their status as candidate member as even candidate members have to meet ridiculous requirements like importing mass amounts of consumer goods at the cost of your own domnestic production sales and export, while the EU isnt obliged to import a single thing and even subsides their own export.
If serbia however were to join the EU i would welcome serbs in my country with open arms, we can celebrate the similarities between the Dutch and Serbian culture with a lot of Heineken and Rakija ^^
Hope that clears some of the confusion up about why at least I have this seemingly conflicting opinion.
Never been to either Greece or Turkey so can't compare. I was mentioning economic data, Turkey is a lot more powerful than many EU states already. Fact. Not talking about the mentality of its people.
Wow so many posters who have preached the evils of the EU and how Serbia would be better off not joining, are against Turkey joining. Very bizarre in the least.
Bizarre: I am not against Turkey joining the EU, I simply don't give a toss. The implication from what the Turkish PM said is that the EU needs to change its behaviour towards Turkey or they won't join. My point is the same as it is for Serbia; if you don't want join don't join.
"Why would Turkey move to Mecca? Turkey is a secular state. Its secularism is defined in its constitution. "
(Danilo, 3 February 2013 19:24)
True, but the current government under Erdogan tries hard to change the constitution and secularism step by step and turn Turkey into an Islamist state.
"BTW, Arn, you write some bizarre stuff. Do you live in the 21st century?"
-I would say that he does yes and he mostly write ok. comments, but the confusion is why this Serb living in Sweden is so ashamed of his ancestry that he mixes up himself with a fictional figure from Swedish medieval history? That is the first we expect an Albanian to do, if they makes it into €USSR...
Some politicians in EU are afraid that if they accept Turkey in EU that would mean that Turkey would be put on wheels and all of a sudden Ankara will be 30km north of Paris.
"If Turks won't finally say goodbye to Erdogan and his neo-Islamist party and choose a modern, secular and democratic government, then there won't be any chance for an EU membership", Questioner warns.
"True, but the current government under Erdogan tries hard to change the constitution and secularism step by step and turn Turkey into an Islamist state."
True. And the best response to that is to engage with Turkey to support its progressive, secular elements. Saying "f-you Turkey" is the best thing you can to if you want to push Turkey into the arms of the Islamists.
I'm not talking about mentalities of peoples dear Nikolle. I'm comparing the two states and there's much more to a state than economic figures. Greece is a democratic state with many imperfections but democratic nonetheless. Turkey on the other hand has a mountain to climb in order to become a western type democracy and i don't think it's in its best interest to do that. The economic figures may flourish in Turkey but that doesn't say much about the standard of living in Turkey or the level of its democracy. The problem with Turks is that they consider themselves a special case due to their size and geopolitical value. They want to join the EU but on their own terms without fulfilling any of the conditions required for other candidate states. In other words they want to remain a non democratic state and still join the EU. Well if the EU still stands for something other than economic figures this should not happen.
- Turkish economy? Yes, it is growing fast, but from a very low level, it may take 10-20 years of this growth until average western European numbers are reached. If this 'economy' is not only a bubble that might burst soon is another question.-
Fast. It is booming. It would already be the 6th biggest economy if it was in the EU. And if GDP were 30 K as you supposed it would be the 2nd biggest economy right after Germany.
And for the migration. Currently thousands of Greeks migrated to Istanbul to find jobs. Dont expects Turks to move anywhere these days. You are welcome though.
well thenasis, there's no point in pretending that Tureky is on the same democratic wavelength as its Western European counterparts. it obviously isn't. however, i hardly think Greece is the state to compare it to. according to last years Transparency International figures, Greece is actually more corrupt. not my problem. if you think they're wrong that's something else. however, i will stay say, having never been to either place, i can't possibly comment on where i'd prefer to live.
-They are a nation that is historically engulfed in aggression and conflict.-
How pathetic you are. I suppose England, France and Germany were all peaceful countries which did no harm to each other. Angels on earth! And you are recommending China and Russia two most democratic and peaceful countries in the world not to take that aggressive and conflict lover country to their ranks.
Oh! Now I tremble to this fact. You are a holy man. Who can say the contrary, and who can object your truly serene comments.
Teach us more facts. Enlighten the world.
- By all means. Say goodbye once and for all. Anf if Turkey is such a strong economy with such a high growth rate, why do illegal immigrants come swimming from the turkish coast to the greek islands or risk their lives through minefields in Evros? Why don't they just stay and work in Turkey?-
Because they are not Turkish immigrants. They are people from all over Africa and Asia and just passing by. I had my military duty in Greece border. Every year there were more than 10.000 immigrants held by Turkish authorities and send back. And that was just in one town.
IMAGE SOURCE
34 Komentari
Sortiraj po: