KPS suspend members over WW2 memorial incident

Hmmm destroying a monument to people who fought the Nazi's, can't wait to see how the trolls are going to defend this one.

No comment - only stupid. And the police is at the scene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p56x40z-q3I

I am really surprised that Albanians behave in this matter. I gave them too much credit, and believed they were rational and just human beings. And if this monument offended them so much, why was it not removed way before the Presevo monument incident? And why was not carried away in tact, and not destroyed?

Well miles there is no need to defend anything here and frankly my answer is simple and its spelled reciprocity. Although i absolutely do not support actions of this kind, mainly because its not worth it and there is no gain in it what so ever. But this is what you get when you let your feeling guide your action, then you will get the reaction of feeling as an answer to your action!

Reciprocity for what?Albanians put up a monument over terrorists that killed serbian policemen in the heart of Serbia, does that seem logical to you?How would you react if serbs put up a monument over Arkan or Yugoslav national hero Aleksandar Rankovic somewhere in Albania?Would you approve of that and let it bet?I dont think so. Secondly, this has been going on in Kosovo for more than ten years, as late as a couple of days ago you demolished 27 gravestones in the cemetery in Kosovo Polje. Was that also "reciprocity". Now I need to ask you what do u think the proper reciprocity for serbs will be for you putting the sveta bogorodica on fire 2004 and launching a rocket attack against the monestery Visoki Decani?

Hmmm destroying a monument to people who fought the Nazi's, can't wait to see how the trolls are going to defend this one.
(miles, 22 January 2013 12:08)

Very easy; your enemy is not my enemy logic, that's if you have one (logic that is)!
==========================
Well, at least you admit that Nazis were not your enemy.
Then stop lying about saving all those Jews.

Dont lose faith my friend, personally i am absolutely dismayed over these actions and this should not be done by any albanian, but unfortunately the few and stupid are bringing down with them the many. And for gods sake do not touch the cemitarys. Be more constructive with your dis-satisfaction, Serbia has always provoked us and you are acting precisely as the serbs calculated. The very fact that these memorials have been standing there ever since serbia got kickt out of kosovo shows that we really are a more tolerable people.
(Nori, 22 January 2013 13:27

You are the ones that are provoking, you are the ones that put up a monument over terrorists just to provoke. You are the ones that attacked the decani monestery and put sveta bogorodica on fire 2004. Youa re the ones that destroyed 27 grave stones in Kosovo POlje last week and on a daily bais.

Well, at least you admit that Nazis were not your enemy.
Then stop lying about saving all those Jews.
(Peggy, 22 January 2013 13:31)

It is obvious that this monument has been knocked down for the assumption that it is a Serbian monument. It won't be useful for your twisted revisionism and your blatant propaganda. Otherwise you show me the prove that the saving of Jews is a lie. I have only proof that it happened, confirmed by all relevant sources and shown in the documentary "Besa - the Promise". So I call you are liar, with obvious intentions. Short, fail..

As a Serb I am not actually bothered about them tearing down a partizan monument which represented communist Yugoslavia. I would actually be in favour of all partizan monuments in Serbia being pulled down, reason being is that it is thanks to Tito's regime that Serbs are faced with the problems in Kosovo. Tito's government gave albanians extensive rights over Serbs and often turned a blind eye to acts of ethnic hatred against the Serbs in order to contain Serb demographic dominance, so really all Kosovo separatist albanians should thank Tito because without him and his allowance of mass immigration from albania the current albanian demographic dominance in Kosovo wouldn't exist as it does now, I'm sure many albanians fought in the partizans along side ethnic Serbs who stupidly joined.

According to the news agency, "a group of about 100 citizens led by the president of the organization of veterans of the former KLA" yesterday attacked and brought down the memorial.

Someone really expect that KPS (remember, most of them recruited from former KLA 'freedom fighters') would do anything against their former comrades? No, they don't care for laws and doing their job professionally.

But a good sign is that they were suspended. Though, why only suspended? They should be fired immediately, it shows that they are not able or willing to do what is expected from police officers.

And, what about the vandals who destoyed the monument? Have they been arrested in the meanwhile and sued to compensate the damage?

"You must understand that in Preseva serbs did not only take down a monument they took down something much more valuable, they took down our freedom."

Nori

Nobody understands your reason because it doesnt make any sense. Its always what albanians want and need. Do you ever think about what that monument in Presevo means to the serbs livring there? In a civil society people living together need to show respect and understanding. These two words albanians don't know the meaning of.

Imagine if the terrorist (Albanian) memorial in Serbia was taken down this way (demolished). Albos would be crying to the world that they are being discriminated and claim this is ethnic cleansing. Terrorize is all you do.

Albanians were Nazis, its a fact. Not only did the openly side with them, they loved being loyal servants to the Germans. Just as they do now. What's chamged? The swastika has been replaced with the Nato flag. Google it; Albanians in WW2. Dont believe propoganda written only a few years ago to try and repair their discraceful history. Read all that was written during and after the war. When the facts were told without any PR damage control being released trying to rewrite history.

I have seen the video... now they can put a monument to their stupidity... Watch carefully the faces of these people. They are primitive people who should be let alone. And I enjoy the fact the support they seemed to have in the world is melting as snow under the sun

Hmmm destroying a monument to people who fought the Nazi's, can't wait to see how the trolls are going to defend this one.
(miles, 22 January 2013 12:08)

Very easy; your enemy is not my enemy logic, that's if you have one (logic that is)!

We've learned this in a hard way dealing with kinds like you.

Hmmm destroying a monument to people who fought the Nazi's, can't wait to see how the trolls are going to defend this one.
(miles, 22 January 2013 12:08)

Well miles there is no need to defend anything here and frankly my answer is simple and its spelled reciprocity. Although i absolutely do not support actions of this kind, mainly because its not worth it and there is no gain in it what so ever. But this is what you get when you let your feeling guide your action, then you will get the reaction of feeling as an answer to your action!

This whole mess breaks my heart because i know that both people are very nobel. I think the problem is politics and ignorance of the people.

I have news here for everyone: people are not good or bad based on ethnicity! The slurs flying here are just trash. Does anyone here knows why Serb churches survived there for 500 years of Ottoman rule? Does anyone here know the names of those Albanian families who for centuries held the keys to this churches and had sworn a "besa" to protect them with their lives? "Besa" was offered to every single Jew during WW2 as well Peggy!! All survived and there were 3 times more Jews in Albania after the war than before it.

What I'm trying to say is that people are not so black and white. There are criminals and ignorants everywhere, in Serbia as in Kosovo.

I am against tearing down of monuments to the dead. The parallel with Osama and his terrorists is particularly disturbing and deeply offensive to Albanians. The dead of the Presevo memorial were locals not mujahideens from Afghanistan.

I am for honoring the dead of both sides; the Serb police and army who had a duty to their country and the Albanian fighters who wanted their rights and split from Serbia and join Kosovo, but who in the end laid down the weapons through negotiations, got amnesty (therefor no longer 'terrorists') and agreed to live in peace, as they have for 12 years.

I am really surprised that Albanians behave in this matter. I gave them too much credit, and believed they were rational and just human beings. And if this monument offended them so much, why was it not removed way before the Presevo monument incident? And why was not carried away in tact, and not destroyed?
(winston, 22 January 2013 12:39)

Dont lose faith my friend, personally i am absolutely dismayed over these actions and this should not be done by any albanian, but unfortunately the few and stupid are bringing down with them the many. And for gods sake do not touch the cemitarys. Be more constructive with your dis-satisfaction, Serbia has always provoked us and you are acting precisely as the serbs calculated. The very fact that these memorials have been standing there ever since serbia got kickt out of kosovo shows that we really are a more tolerable people.

Well, at least you admit that Nazis were not your enemy.
Then stop lying about saving all those Jews.
(Peggy, 22 January 2013 13:31)

Good one!

I have only proof that it happened, confirmed by all relevant sources and shown in the documentary "Besa - the Promise". So I call you are liar, with obvious intentions. Short, fail..
(John, 22 January 2013 15:12)

No one gives a rat's behind about your primitive honor code. A lot of good it's done you since you're all still living 300 years behind everyone else.

Another proud moment in sqip history. Other nations built societies, are successful in science, arts, sport. Albanians are the complete oposite. For a people who claims to have been in the balkans for the last 70 gazillion years their acheivements are equal to none. Their only talent is to desecrate graves, churches and destroy lives. Albania and Kosovo has become a time machine. It takes you back 5000 years in time.

When they rebuild it, then they better use Latin letters.

Well i see no other reason then to "one up on the serbs", this serb monument has been standing there ever since it was erected and now suddenly some of them are being torn down. You must understand that in Preseva serbs did not only take down a monument they took down something much more valuable, they took down our freedom, and thats why the albanians are pissed about it, albanians under serb rule are not allowed to be free or express them selfs in any way.
(Nori, 22 January 2013 18:23)

Serb children under albanian rule are not even allowed to go to school without getting stones thrown at them.

"On April 17,1944, pursuant to instructions by Reichsfuehrer-SS Heinrich Himmler, an Albanian Waffen SS Division, the 21st Waffen Gebirgs Division der SS "Skanderbeg" or "Skenderbeg" (Albanische Nr.1), was formed, which occupied and ethnically cleansed Kosovo-Metohija of Orthodox Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, and other non-Albanians. Himmler envisioned the formation of two Albanian SS Divisions, but the war ended before the second could be formed. Approximately 300 Albanian troops in the Bosnian Muslim 13th Waffen Gebirgs Division der SS "Handzar" or "Handschar" were transferred to the newly forming SS division. The Skanderbeg Division was made up of 6,491 ethnic Albanian Muslims, two-thirds of whom were from Kosovo-Metohija, "Kosovars". To this Albanian Muslims core were added German troops,Reichdeutsche from Austria and Volkdeutsche officers,NCOs and enlisted men transferred from the 7th SS Mountain Division "Prinz Eugen" or "Princ Eugen", then stationed in Bosnia-Hercegovina.The Skanderbeg Division was made up of Albanian Muslims of the Bektashi and Sunni sects of Wahhabi Islam. The total strength of the Skanderbeg Division was 8,500-9,000 men. The Kosovar Albanian Muslim Skanderbeg Nazi SS Division was created to establish a Greater Albania. In fact, from 1941 to 1944, there was a Greater Albania which Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini created."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbP2EyF8d34

But why are these monuments knocked down now, Nori? This monument was dedicated to soldiers that fought against fascism during the WW's, they have nothing to do with Albanians, except for the ones that fought for Hitler. And again, why was this offensive monument not removed, why was it destroyed? Did this group of retaliators want to one up the Serbs?

"It is obvious that this monument has been knocked down for the assumption that it is a Serbian monument. It won't be useful for your twisted revisionism and your blatant propaganda. Otherwise you show me the prove that the saving of Jews is a lie. I have only proof that it happened, confirmed by all relevant sources and shown in the documentary "Besa - the Promise". So I call you are liar, with obvious intentions. Short, fail.. -John"

Seriously if your name is John then you must've seriously ignored your education. Anyways, for the sake of argument. How can what Peggy wrote possibly be called propaganda. Albanians collaborating with Nazi's isn't exactly a secret now is it?

Albanians showing their true colors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kybaXR4nZU

No further comment necessary.
(Commentator, 22 January 2013 20:07)
=====================

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1927

Yep, you were saving Jews.

You rank among N Korea, Iran, Sadam's Iraq. You are nowhere close to what you were under Tito. You are a sick shadow of what you used to be under him.
(J, 22 January 2013 15:37)

You're still a sick shadow of what you were under Hoxha. You'll continue to be a sick shadow for many decades to come as well.

Please feel free to ask me anytime should you wish further literature on this topic.
(Fikret, 22 January 2013 19:29)
=======================

Your grandpa did the same thing you know.

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/recruited.html

You must understand that in Preseva serbs did not only take down a monument they took down something much more valuable, they took down our freedom, and thats why the albanians are pissed about it, albanians under serb rule are not allowed to be free or express them selfs in any way.
(Nori, 22 January 2013 18:23)

Really? Last I checked you can

a) speak your language
b) fly the Albanian flag
c) use school books printed in Albania for your children
d) erect all sorts of monuments that give you the impression you're living somewhere other than Serbia
e) elect local Albanian leaders to office
f) enjoy unfettered communication with Albania

Now you're either lying about the state of affairs in Presevo because you don't live there and have no frame of reference or you're just plain stupid. One monument - ONE MONUMENT - is moved and you're crying cultural genocide. Get a grip.

Can minorities in Albania do any of the above? Without international pressure can minorities in Kosovo do any of the above?

Quit your pathetic pity rant. No one's buying it. You people have more rights than you know what to do with and you're still not happy. In any other country you'd have been subjected either to forced assimilation or forced expulsion decades ago.

"so really all Kosovo separatist albanians should thank Tito because without him and his allowance of mass immigration from albania the current albanian demographic dominance in Kosovo wouldn't exist as it does now, I'm sure many albanians fought in the partizans along side ethnic Serbs who stupidly joined."

--Let's cut through the BS here. At that time Albania itself had around 800 thousand inhabitants. This was from a census as soon as the war was over. Now only in the mind of a Serb this magical math works. Mass migration from Albania leads to an actual growth of the population of Albania.

Also dude, as a Serb you should be most thankful to Tito. Look at Serbia when he was in power economically and it's status in the world. Look at Serbia now under Serb leaders. Economically destroyed, a pariah among nations. You rank among N Korea, Iran, Sadam's Iraq. You are nowhere close to what you were under Tito. You are a sick shadow of what you used to be under him.

Then stop lying about saving all those Jews.
(Peggy, 22 January 2013 13:31)

http://besathepromise.com/

No further comment necessary.

Alright, alright, alright. And here's some nice reading for Peggy:

- Harvey Sarner: Rescue in Albania: One hundred percent of Jews in Albania rescued from Holocaust. Cathedral City: Brunswick Press 1997.

Please feel free to ask me anytime should you wish further literature on this topic.

We've learned this in a hard way dealing with kinds like you.
(Pls say it ain't so!!!, 22 January 2013 12:41)

When Roman pay Albo to make war with Greaks (1042) George Maniakes learned hard way from greaks - not Serbs.
Presevo is just albo clear mask for 100 yr old legaly build monument.

You are the ones that are provoking, you are the ones that put up a monument over terrorists just to provoke. You are the ones that attacked the decani monestery and put sveta bogorodica on fire 2004. Youa re the ones that destroyed 27 grave stones in Kosovo POlje last week and on a daily bais.
(Daniel, 22 January 2013 14:38)

I had an answer to you about one other question that you directed to me but B92 is not posting it, i guess that educated answers from peaceful albanians are not welcome here, only radical ones. But no matter how much you try you can not change the fact that i am peaceful and i will never be the terrorist you accuse me of being just because i am albanian. Well i guess that there is no point for me in talking to you. The only thing i see in your comment is you, you, you ie blaming the albanians. I think that it would be useful if you were able to see things in a brooder perspective then you might be able to figure out who here really bares the blame, ill give you a hint, its not the albanians. I would also like to see a little more me, me ,me in your comments that would be proof of that you actually recognize what you are guilty of. Iam able to recognize the mistakes that the albanians are doing and have done that helps me se things in a broad perspective, but that is something that you obviously are not capable of doing.

But why are these monuments knocked down now, Nori? This monument was dedicated to soldiers that fought against fascism during the WW's, they have nothing to do with Albanians, except for the ones that fought for Hitler. And again, why was this offensive monument not removed, why was it destroyed? Did this group of retaliators want to one up the Serbs?
(winston, 22 January 2013 15:21)

Well i see no other reason then to "one up on the serbs", this serb monument has been standing there ever since it was erected and now suddenly some of them are being torn down. You must understand that in Preseva serbs did not only take down a monument they took down something much more valuable, they took down our freedom, and thats why the albanians are pissed about it, albanians under serb rule are not allowed to be free or express them selfs in any way.

Maybe Serbs should put a monument up in the heart of Pristina to honor the VJ and Slobodan Milosevic as NATIONAL HEROES in the battle for Kosovo in 1999.

By the way, the source used by "Truth" is Carl Savich, an extremely controversial historian: http://www.bosniak.org/university-of-minnesota-responds-to-cnab-re-carl-savich-controversy/

Nevertheless, I can only repeat myself: Yes, the predominantly Kosovo Albanian SS Division Skanderbeg existed.

However, one certainly cannot generalize things. Particularly the protection of Jews in Albania and - unfortunately to a lesser degree - in Kosovo clearly shows strong differences in the ideology of nazis and Albanians of that time.
=====================
Why don't you teach those ungrateful Jews who really saved them. They really don't know their own history.

Listen to what's coming out of their own mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGDTsiuxwrM

Why don't you just keep quiet? You may not like the truth and history but you cannot change either one.

Peggy, I'm not surprised to see you don't like the concept of free speach. Neither am I surprised that you cannot differentiate between scientifically sound sources and extremist propaganda.

In a civil society people living together need to show respect and understanding. These two words albanians don't know the meaning of.
(MikeC, 22 January 2013 22:11)

Do you or the clowns in bg know the meaning of the sentence which you typed? For the past century you have plagued the Balkans with wars

Tung,

Nobody's denying the existance of SS Division Skanderbeg and their crimes. Neither is anyone denying the collaboration between Bosnian Muslims and the Ustasha.

However, one certainly cannot generalize things. Particularly the protection of Jews in Albania and - unfortunately to a lesser degree - in Kosovo clearly shows strong differences in the ideology of nazis and Albanians of that time.

As far as Bosnian Muslims are concerned, please let's not forget there were Partisan fighters among them just like among Serbs and Croats. As a matter of fact, there were also Kosovo Albanian Partisan fighters.

"Do you or the clowns in bg know the meaning of the sentens which you typed? For the past century you have plagued the Balkans with wars "

Tung,
KOSO

And of course you answere the only way you can, by bringing up the war of the '90s. If we serbs started the war then you talialbanians are doing a fine job continuing it.

"Can minorities in Albania do any of the above? Without international pressure can minorities in Kosovo do any of the above? "

Yes they can. They also have their own monuments for their combatants. Take the Serb glasses off for a minute. You will find out the world is less evil without them on.

Peggy, I'm not surprised to see you don't like the concept of free speach. Neither am I surprised that you cannot differentiate between scientifically sound sources and extremist propaganda.
(Fikret, 23 January 2013 16:51)
============================
Free speech is fine, but when you use it to spread BS then you really should rethink using that as an excuse.

Extremist propaganda? Are you denying that's what happened then?
You think you can change history?

Think again. Listen to this if you think the Jews don't know who killed them.

There are people in America and the rest of the world who know the truth and the truth is slowly coming out.
Here is someone else who knows what's going on and is speaking out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5BLPVt_bz4

Here is another one for you.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/168/36491.html

For a start, I therefore suggest you should buy yourself some books about the basic principles of scientific work & accurate journalism.
==========================

You want more?
Here is someone you might actually respect. Read who Gregory Clark is at the bottom of the article.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yugoslaviainfo/message/7029

http://de-construct.net/?p=327

How about this?

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/index.html

Are you seriously denying your Nazi past? Really?
Which sources do you have that show how Muslims were with the allies?

It's like the personnel in charge at the KP HQ read my mind. I completely agree with their ruling.


Tung,

Albanians were Nazis, its a fact. Not only did the openly side with them, they loved being loyal servants to the Germans. Just as they do now. What's chamged? The swastika has been replaced with the Nato flag. Google it; Albanians in WW2. Dont believe propoganda written only a few years ago to try and repair their discraceful history. Read all that was written during and after the war. When the facts were told without any PR damage control being released trying to rewrite history.
(truth, 22 January 2013 16:58)

Why is it so damn hard for you serb to say it like it is. Yes there is no doubt about it at all that albanians were allied with Nazis, its 100% true, but the reason for that is really not that we loved Nazis or even sympathized with them. The reason was "my enemies enemy is my friend". Nazis had issues with you slavs ie serbs and that suited our purpose of gaining freedom, you see even back then you were making our lives a living hell and we wanted to be free of you. But please it is getting beyond ridiculous when even your own leaders try to portray to americans (or any other ally) that Albanians fought against them during ww2. We only joined Nazis against serbia and we did not fight anyone else, sheltering jews is a strong evidence of that. Yet another truth to this story is that at that time albanians were split in two caps, there were a lot of albanians who joined the partisans and therefore we had brothers shooting at each other.

You're still a sick shadow of what you were under Hoxha. You'll continue to be a sick shadow for many decades to come as well.
(Q, 22 January 2013 20:38)

Sorry, reciprocity doesn't work here. Hoxha's Albania is like Serbia when it comes to status. You have fallen badly and you are in denial.

"Maybe Serbs should put a monument up in the heart of Pristina to honor the VJ and Slobodan Milosevic as NATIONAL HEROES in the battle for Kosovo in 1999."
(Hmm, 22 January 2013 23:57)

Why Pristina? Mitrovica would be a nice place for that. But I wonder how long such a monument would stay untouched.

On one hand, there's no functioning state in Kosovo, so it couldn't be officially removed. But I could imagine some Albanian terrorists would blow it up with a bomb.

Suspended with pay. Eh....

Now that we could clarify this, it's time for you to acknowledge the heroic protection of Jews in Albania during WWII as acknowledged by Yad Vashem.
(Fikret, 24 January 2013 14:05)
-------------------------------

Sure I will.

But take a look at this.

Israel recognized gentiles who helped Jews escape the Holocaust as early as 1963, and honored 443 Germans at the Yad Vashem Memorial as ”Righteous among the Nations.” But similar honors have been long delayed at home.

You see, Germans in Germany also saved Jews too and are honoured in the same place but just like Germans, Albanians had SS division which hunted them and killed them too.
This kind of reverses the good that some did.

http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/press/museum-created-germans-hid/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_xf1opdhg&bpctr=1358885956

I think this pretty much sums it up.

Peggy, the first link leads to yet another highly controversial author (Michael Savage) while the second one leads to an article about a different topic than the one we're currently discussing.

For a start, I therefore suggest you should buy yourself some books about the basic principles of scientific work & accurate journalism.

Once you have enough money, you might also want to think about a trip to Israel where Yad Vashem officially acknowledges the brave role of Albanians during the holocaust:
http://www1.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteous/stories/historical_background/albania.asp

You know what Yad Vashem is, don't you?

Oh, Peggy! I already acknowledged the cooperation between Bosnian Muslims and the Ustasha just like I acknowledged the predominantly Kosovo Albanian SS division Skanderbeg. Their crimes are completly undesputed.

Now that we could clarify this, it's time for you to acknowledge the heroic protection of Jews in Albania during WWII as acknowledged by Yad Vashem.

Hmmm destroying a monument to people who fought the Nazi's, can't wait to see how the trolls are going to defend this one.
(miles, 22 January 2013 12:08)

Well miles there is no need to defend anything here and frankly my answer is simple and its spelled reciprocity. Although i absolutely do not support actions of this kind, mainly because its not worth it and there is no gain in it what so ever. But this is what you get when you let your feeling guide your action, then you will get the reaction of feeling as an answer to your action!

Hmmm destroying a monument to people who fought the Nazi's, can't wait to see how the trolls are going to defend this one.
(miles, 22 January 2013 12:08)

Very easy; your enemy is not my enemy logic, that's if you have one (logic that is)!

We've learned this in a hard way dealing with kinds like you.

Well miles there is no need to defend anything here and frankly my answer is simple and its spelled reciprocity. Although i absolutely do not support actions of this kind, mainly because its not worth it and there is no gain in it what so ever. But this is what you get when you let your feeling guide your action, then you will get the reaction of feeling as an answer to your action!

Reciprocity for what?Albanians put up a monument over terrorists that killed serbian policemen in the heart of Serbia, does that seem logical to you?How would you react if serbs put up a monument over Arkan or Yugoslav national hero Aleksandar Rankovic somewhere in Albania?Would you approve of that and let it bet?I dont think so. Secondly, this has been going on in Kosovo for more than ten years, as late as a couple of days ago you demolished 27 gravestones in the cemetery in Kosovo Polje. Was that also "reciprocity". Now I need to ask you what do u think the proper reciprocity for serbs will be for you putting the sveta bogorodica on fire 2004 and launching a rocket attack against the monestery Visoki Decani?

I am really surprised that Albanians behave in this matter. I gave them too much credit, and believed they were rational and just human beings. And if this monument offended them so much, why was it not removed way before the Presevo monument incident? And why was not carried away in tact, and not destroyed?
(winston, 22 January 2013 12:39)

Dont lose faith my friend, personally i am absolutely dismayed over these actions and this should not be done by any albanian, but unfortunately the few and stupid are bringing down with them the many. And for gods sake do not touch the cemitarys. Be more constructive with your dis-satisfaction, Serbia has always provoked us and you are acting precisely as the serbs calculated. The very fact that these memorials have been standing there ever since serbia got kickt out of kosovo shows that we really are a more tolerable people.

Hmmm destroying a monument to people who fought the Nazi's, can't wait to see how the trolls are going to defend this one.
(miles, 22 January 2013 12:08)

Very easy; your enemy is not my enemy logic, that's if you have one (logic that is)!
==========================
Well, at least you admit that Nazis were not your enemy.
Then stop lying about saving all those Jews.

Well, at least you admit that Nazis were not your enemy.
Then stop lying about saving all those Jews.
(Peggy, 22 January 2013 13:31)

It is obvious that this monument has been knocked down for the assumption that it is a Serbian monument. It won't be useful for your twisted revisionism and your blatant propaganda. Otherwise you show me the prove that the saving of Jews is a lie. I have only proof that it happened, confirmed by all relevant sources and shown in the documentary "Besa - the Promise". So I call you are liar, with obvious intentions. Short, fail..

When they rebuild it, then they better use Latin letters.

As a Serb I am not actually bothered about them tearing down a partizan monument which represented communist Yugoslavia. I would actually be in favour of all partizan monuments in Serbia being pulled down, reason being is that it is thanks to Tito's regime that Serbs are faced with the problems in Kosovo. Tito's government gave albanians extensive rights over Serbs and often turned a blind eye to acts of ethnic hatred against the Serbs in order to contain Serb demographic dominance, so really all Kosovo separatist albanians should thank Tito because without him and his allowance of mass immigration from albania the current albanian demographic dominance in Kosovo wouldn't exist as it does now, I'm sure many albanians fought in the partizans along side ethnic Serbs who stupidly joined.

But why are these monuments knocked down now, Nori? This monument was dedicated to soldiers that fought against fascism during the WW's, they have nothing to do with Albanians, except for the ones that fought for Hitler. And again, why was this offensive monument not removed, why was it destroyed? Did this group of retaliators want to one up the Serbs?
(winston, 22 January 2013 15:21)

Well i see no other reason then to "one up on the serbs", this serb monument has been standing there ever since it was erected and now suddenly some of them are being torn down. You must understand that in Preseva serbs did not only take down a monument they took down something much more valuable, they took down our freedom, and thats why the albanians are pissed about it, albanians under serb rule are not allowed to be free or express them selfs in any way.

I am really surprised that Albanians behave in this matter. I gave them too much credit, and believed they were rational and just human beings. And if this monument offended them so much, why was it not removed way before the Presevo monument incident? And why was not carried away in tact, and not destroyed?

"so really all Kosovo separatist albanians should thank Tito because without him and his allowance of mass immigration from albania the current albanian demographic dominance in Kosovo wouldn't exist as it does now, I'm sure many albanians fought in the partizans along side ethnic Serbs who stupidly joined."

--Let's cut through the BS here. At that time Albania itself had around 800 thousand inhabitants. This was from a census as soon as the war was over. Now only in the mind of a Serb this magical math works. Mass migration from Albania leads to an actual growth of the population of Albania.

Also dude, as a Serb you should be most thankful to Tito. Look at Serbia when he was in power economically and it's status in the world. Look at Serbia now under Serb leaders. Economically destroyed, a pariah among nations. You rank among N Korea, Iran, Sadam's Iraq. You are nowhere close to what you were under Tito. You are a sick shadow of what you used to be under him.

Hmmm destroying a monument to people who fought the Nazi's, can't wait to see how the trolls are going to defend this one.

Dont lose faith my friend, personally i am absolutely dismayed over these actions and this should not be done by any albanian, but unfortunately the few and stupid are bringing down with them the many. And for gods sake do not touch the cemitarys. Be more constructive with your dis-satisfaction, Serbia has always provoked us and you are acting precisely as the serbs calculated. The very fact that these memorials have been standing there ever since serbia got kickt out of kosovo shows that we really are a more tolerable people.
(Nori, 22 January 2013 13:27

You are the ones that are provoking, you are the ones that put up a monument over terrorists just to provoke. You are the ones that attacked the decani monestery and put sveta bogorodica on fire 2004. Youa re the ones that destroyed 27 grave stones in Kosovo POlje last week and on a daily bais.

Albanians were Nazis, its a fact. Not only did the openly side with them, they loved being loyal servants to the Germans. Just as they do now. What's chamged? The swastika has been replaced with the Nato flag. Google it; Albanians in WW2. Dont believe propoganda written only a few years ago to try and repair their discraceful history. Read all that was written during and after the war. When the facts were told without any PR damage control being released trying to rewrite history.

Albanians were Nazis, its a fact. Not only did the openly side with them, they loved being loyal servants to the Germans. Just as they do now. What's chamged? The swastika has been replaced with the Nato flag. Google it; Albanians in WW2. Dont believe propoganda written only a few years ago to try and repair their discraceful history. Read all that was written during and after the war. When the facts were told without any PR damage control being released trying to rewrite history.
(truth, 22 January 2013 16:58)

Why is it so damn hard for you serb to say it like it is. Yes there is no doubt about it at all that albanians were allied with Nazis, its 100% true, but the reason for that is really not that we loved Nazis or even sympathized with them. The reason was "my enemies enemy is my friend". Nazis had issues with you slavs ie serbs and that suited our purpose of gaining freedom, you see even back then you were making our lives a living hell and we wanted to be free of you. But please it is getting beyond ridiculous when even your own leaders try to portray to americans (or any other ally) that Albanians fought against them during ww2. We only joined Nazis against serbia and we did not fight anyone else, sheltering jews is a strong evidence of that. Yet another truth to this story is that at that time albanians were split in two caps, there were a lot of albanians who joined the partisans and therefore we had brothers shooting at each other.

Well, at least you admit that Nazis were not your enemy.
Then stop lying about saving all those Jews.
(Peggy, 22 January 2013 13:31)

Good one!

I have only proof that it happened, confirmed by all relevant sources and shown in the documentary "Besa - the Promise". So I call you are liar, with obvious intentions. Short, fail..
(John, 22 January 2013 15:12)

No one gives a rat's behind about your primitive honor code. A lot of good it's done you since you're all still living 300 years behind everyone else.

According to the news agency, "a group of about 100 citizens led by the president of the organization of veterans of the former KLA" yesterday attacked and brought down the memorial.

Someone really expect that KPS (remember, most of them recruited from former KLA 'freedom fighters') would do anything against their former comrades? No, they don't care for laws and doing their job professionally.

But a good sign is that they were suspended. Though, why only suspended? They should be fired immediately, it shows that they are not able or willing to do what is expected from police officers.

And, what about the vandals who destoyed the monument? Have they been arrested in the meanwhile and sued to compensate the damage?

Alright, alright, alright. And here's some nice reading for Peggy:

- Harvey Sarner: Rescue in Albania: One hundred percent of Jews in Albania rescued from Holocaust. Cathedral City: Brunswick Press 1997.

Please feel free to ask me anytime should you wish further literature on this topic.

We've learned this in a hard way dealing with kinds like you.
(Pls say it ain't so!!!, 22 January 2013 12:41)

When Roman pay Albo to make war with Greaks (1042) George Maniakes learned hard way from greaks - not Serbs.
Presevo is just albo clear mask for 100 yr old legaly build monument.

You are the ones that are provoking, you are the ones that put up a monument over terrorists just to provoke. You are the ones that attacked the decani monestery and put sveta bogorodica on fire 2004. Youa re the ones that destroyed 27 grave stones in Kosovo POlje last week and on a daily bais.
(Daniel, 22 January 2013 14:38)

I had an answer to you about one other question that you directed to me but B92 is not posting it, i guess that educated answers from peaceful albanians are not welcome here, only radical ones. But no matter how much you try you can not change the fact that i am peaceful and i will never be the terrorist you accuse me of being just because i am albanian. Well i guess that there is no point for me in talking to you. The only thing i see in your comment is you, you, you ie blaming the albanians. I think that it would be useful if you were able to see things in a brooder perspective then you might be able to figure out who here really bares the blame, ill give you a hint, its not the albanians. I would also like to see a little more me, me ,me in your comments that would be proof of that you actually recognize what you are guilty of. Iam able to recognize the mistakes that the albanians are doing and have done that helps me se things in a broad perspective, but that is something that you obviously are not capable of doing.

Suspended with pay. Eh....

Then stop lying about saving all those Jews.
(Peggy, 22 January 2013 13:31)

http://besathepromise.com/

No further comment necessary.

Imagine if the terrorist (Albanian) memorial in Serbia was taken down this way (demolished). Albos would be crying to the world that they are being discriminated and claim this is ethnic cleansing. Terrorize is all you do.

No comment - only stupid. And the police is at the scene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p56x40z-q3I

"It is obvious that this monument has been knocked down for the assumption that it is a Serbian monument. It won't be useful for your twisted revisionism and your blatant propaganda. Otherwise you show me the prove that the saving of Jews is a lie. I have only proof that it happened, confirmed by all relevant sources and shown in the documentary "Besa - the Promise". So I call you are liar, with obvious intentions. Short, fail.. -John"

Seriously if your name is John then you must've seriously ignored your education. Anyways, for the sake of argument. How can what Peggy wrote possibly be called propaganda. Albanians collaborating with Nazi's isn't exactly a secret now is it?

This whole mess breaks my heart because i know that both people are very nobel. I think the problem is politics and ignorance of the people.

I have news here for everyone: people are not good or bad based on ethnicity! The slurs flying here are just trash. Does anyone here knows why Serb churches survived there for 500 years of Ottoman rule? Does anyone here know the names of those Albanian families who for centuries held the keys to this churches and had sworn a "besa" to protect them with their lives? "Besa" was offered to every single Jew during WW2 as well Peggy!! All survived and there were 3 times more Jews in Albania after the war than before it.

What I'm trying to say is that people are not so black and white. There are criminals and ignorants everywhere, in Serbia as in Kosovo.

I am against tearing down of monuments to the dead. The parallel with Osama and his terrorists is particularly disturbing and deeply offensive to Albanians. The dead of the Presevo memorial were locals not mujahideens from Afghanistan.

I am for honoring the dead of both sides; the Serb police and army who had a duty to their country and the Albanian fighters who wanted their rights and split from Serbia and join Kosovo, but who in the end laid down the weapons through negotiations, got amnesty (therefor no longer 'terrorists') and agreed to live in peace, as they have for 12 years.

It's like the personnel in charge at the KP HQ read my mind. I completely agree with their ruling.


Tung,

Well i see no other reason then to "one up on the serbs", this serb monument has been standing there ever since it was erected and now suddenly some of them are being torn down. You must understand that in Preseva serbs did not only take down a monument they took down something much more valuable, they took down our freedom, and thats why the albanians are pissed about it, albanians under serb rule are not allowed to be free or express them selfs in any way.
(Nori, 22 January 2013 18:23)

Serb children under albanian rule are not even allowed to go to school without getting stones thrown at them.

"You must understand that in Preseva serbs did not only take down a monument they took down something much more valuable, they took down our freedom."

Nori

Nobody understands your reason because it doesnt make any sense. Its always what albanians want and need. Do you ever think about what that monument in Presevo means to the serbs livring there? In a civil society people living together need to show respect and understanding. These two words albanians don't know the meaning of.

In a civil society people living together need to show respect and understanding. These two words albanians don't know the meaning of.
(MikeC, 22 January 2013 22:11)

Do you or the clowns in bg know the meaning of the sentence which you typed? For the past century you have plagued the Balkans with wars

Tung,

Another proud moment in sqip history. Other nations built societies, are successful in science, arts, sport. Albanians are the complete oposite. For a people who claims to have been in the balkans for the last 70 gazillion years their acheivements are equal to none. Their only talent is to desecrate graves, churches and destroy lives. Albania and Kosovo has become a time machine. It takes you back 5000 years in time.

I have seen the video... now they can put a monument to their stupidity... Watch carefully the faces of these people. They are primitive people who should be let alone. And I enjoy the fact the support they seemed to have in the world is melting as snow under the sun

Albanians showing their true colors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kybaXR4nZU

Please feel free to ask me anytime should you wish further literature on this topic.
(Fikret, 22 January 2013 19:29)
=======================

Your grandpa did the same thing you know.

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/recruited.html

You're still a sick shadow of what you were under Hoxha. You'll continue to be a sick shadow for many decades to come as well.
(Q, 22 January 2013 20:38)

Sorry, reciprocity doesn't work here. Hoxha's Albania is like Serbia when it comes to status. You have fallen badly and you are in denial.

"Can minorities in Albania do any of the above? Without international pressure can minorities in Kosovo do any of the above? "

Yes they can. They also have their own monuments for their combatants. Take the Serb glasses off for a minute. You will find out the world is less evil without them on.

But why are these monuments knocked down now, Nori? This monument was dedicated to soldiers that fought against fascism during the WW's, they have nothing to do with Albanians, except for the ones that fought for Hitler. And again, why was this offensive monument not removed, why was it destroyed? Did this group of retaliators want to one up the Serbs?

You rank among N Korea, Iran, Sadam's Iraq. You are nowhere close to what you were under Tito. You are a sick shadow of what you used to be under him.
(J, 22 January 2013 15:37)

You're still a sick shadow of what you were under Hoxha. You'll continue to be a sick shadow for many decades to come as well.

No further comment necessary.
(Commentator, 22 January 2013 20:07)
=====================

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1927

Yep, you were saving Jews.

However, one certainly cannot generalize things. Particularly the protection of Jews in Albania and - unfortunately to a lesser degree - in Kosovo clearly shows strong differences in the ideology of nazis and Albanians of that time.
=====================
Why don't you teach those ungrateful Jews who really saved them. They really don't know their own history.

Listen to what's coming out of their own mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGDTsiuxwrM

Why don't you just keep quiet? You may not like the truth and history but you cannot change either one.

Oh, Peggy! I already acknowledged the cooperation between Bosnian Muslims and the Ustasha just like I acknowledged the predominantly Kosovo Albanian SS division Skanderbeg. Their crimes are completly undesputed.

Now that we could clarify this, it's time for you to acknowledge the heroic protection of Jews in Albania during WWII as acknowledged by Yad Vashem.

"On April 17,1944, pursuant to instructions by Reichsfuehrer-SS Heinrich Himmler, an Albanian Waffen SS Division, the 21st Waffen Gebirgs Division der SS "Skanderbeg" or "Skenderbeg" (Albanische Nr.1), was formed, which occupied and ethnically cleansed Kosovo-Metohija of Orthodox Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, and other non-Albanians. Himmler envisioned the formation of two Albanian SS Divisions, but the war ended before the second could be formed. Approximately 300 Albanian troops in the Bosnian Muslim 13th Waffen Gebirgs Division der SS "Handzar" or "Handschar" were transferred to the newly forming SS division. The Skanderbeg Division was made up of 6,491 ethnic Albanian Muslims, two-thirds of whom were from Kosovo-Metohija, "Kosovars". To this Albanian Muslims core were added German troops,Reichdeutsche from Austria and Volkdeutsche officers,NCOs and enlisted men transferred from the 7th SS Mountain Division "Prinz Eugen" or "Princ Eugen", then stationed in Bosnia-Hercegovina.The Skanderbeg Division was made up of Albanian Muslims of the Bektashi and Sunni sects of Wahhabi Islam. The total strength of the Skanderbeg Division was 8,500-9,000 men. The Kosovar Albanian Muslim Skanderbeg Nazi SS Division was created to establish a Greater Albania. In fact, from 1941 to 1944, there was a Greater Albania which Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini created."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbP2EyF8d34

You must understand that in Preseva serbs did not only take down a monument they took down something much more valuable, they took down our freedom, and thats why the albanians are pissed about it, albanians under serb rule are not allowed to be free or express them selfs in any way.
(Nori, 22 January 2013 18:23)

Really? Last I checked you can

a) speak your language
b) fly the Albanian flag
c) use school books printed in Albania for your children
d) erect all sorts of monuments that give you the impression you're living somewhere other than Serbia
e) elect local Albanian leaders to office
f) enjoy unfettered communication with Albania

Now you're either lying about the state of affairs in Presevo because you don't live there and have no frame of reference or you're just plain stupid. One monument - ONE MONUMENT - is moved and you're crying cultural genocide. Get a grip.

Can minorities in Albania do any of the above? Without international pressure can minorities in Kosovo do any of the above?

Quit your pathetic pity rant. No one's buying it. You people have more rights than you know what to do with and you're still not happy. In any other country you'd have been subjected either to forced assimilation or forced expulsion decades ago.

Nobody's denying the existance of SS Division Skanderbeg and their crimes. Neither is anyone denying the collaboration between Bosnian Muslims and the Ustasha.

However, one certainly cannot generalize things. Particularly the protection of Jews in Albania and - unfortunately to a lesser degree - in Kosovo clearly shows strong differences in the ideology of nazis and Albanians of that time.

As far as Bosnian Muslims are concerned, please let's not forget there were Partisan fighters among them just like among Serbs and Croats. As a matter of fact, there were also Kosovo Albanian Partisan fighters.

By the way, the source used by "Truth" is Carl Savich, an extremely controversial historian: http://www.bosniak.org/university-of-minnesota-responds-to-cnab-re-carl-savich-controversy/

Nevertheless, I can only repeat myself: Yes, the predominantly Kosovo Albanian SS Division Skanderbeg existed.

Peggy, I'm not surprised to see you don't like the concept of free speach. Neither am I surprised that you cannot differentiate between scientifically sound sources and extremist propaganda.

"Do you or the clowns in bg know the meaning of the sentens which you typed? For the past century you have plagued the Balkans with wars "

Tung,
KOSO

And of course you answere the only way you can, by bringing up the war of the '90s. If we serbs started the war then you talialbanians are doing a fine job continuing it.

Peggy, the first link leads to yet another highly controversial author (Michael Savage) while the second one leads to an article about a different topic than the one we're currently discussing.

For a start, I therefore suggest you should buy yourself some books about the basic principles of scientific work & accurate journalism.

Once you have enough money, you might also want to think about a trip to Israel where Yad Vashem officially acknowledges the brave role of Albanians during the holocaust:
http://www1.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteous/stories/historical_background/albania.asp

You know what Yad Vashem is, don't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_xf1opdhg&bpctr=1358885956

I think this pretty much sums it up.

Maybe Serbs should put a monument up in the heart of Pristina to honor the VJ and Slobodan Milosevic as NATIONAL HEROES in the battle for Kosovo in 1999.

"Maybe Serbs should put a monument up in the heart of Pristina to honor the VJ and Slobodan Milosevic as NATIONAL HEROES in the battle for Kosovo in 1999."
(Hmm, 22 January 2013 23:57)

Why Pristina? Mitrovica would be a nice place for that. But I wonder how long such a monument would stay untouched.

On one hand, there's no functioning state in Kosovo, so it couldn't be officially removed. But I could imagine some Albanian terrorists would blow it up with a bomb.

Peggy, I'm not surprised to see you don't like the concept of free speach. Neither am I surprised that you cannot differentiate between scientifically sound sources and extremist propaganda.
(Fikret, 23 January 2013 16:51)
============================
Free speech is fine, but when you use it to spread BS then you really should rethink using that as an excuse.

Extremist propaganda? Are you denying that's what happened then?
You think you can change history?

Think again. Listen to this if you think the Jews don't know who killed them.

There are people in America and the rest of the world who know the truth and the truth is slowly coming out.
Here is someone else who knows what's going on and is speaking out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5BLPVt_bz4

Here is another one for you.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/168/36491.html

For a start, I therefore suggest you should buy yourself some books about the basic principles of scientific work & accurate journalism.
==========================

You want more?
Here is someone you might actually respect. Read who Gregory Clark is at the bottom of the article.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yugoslaviainfo/message/7029

http://de-construct.net/?p=327

How about this?

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/index.html

Are you seriously denying your Nazi past? Really?
Which sources do you have that show how Muslims were with the allies?

Now that we could clarify this, it's time for you to acknowledge the heroic protection of Jews in Albania during WWII as acknowledged by Yad Vashem.
(Fikret, 24 January 2013 14:05)
-------------------------------

Sure I will.

But take a look at this.

Israel recognized gentiles who helped Jews escape the Holocaust as early as 1963, and honored 443 Germans at the Yad Vashem Memorial as ”Righteous among the Nations.” But similar honors have been long delayed at home.

You see, Germans in Germany also saved Jews too and are honoured in the same place but just like Germans, Albanians had SS division which hunted them and killed them too.
This kind of reverses the good that some did.

http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/press/museum-created-germans-hid/