PM urges intl. community "not to forget" Serbia's history

I can't think of any Serbian battle with the Turks that gave the Turks the message that they should turn around and go home. Yes, all that happened is that many Serbs fought for the Turks and continued to do so after the battle of Kosovo Polje. Not only that---the Serbs were happy to be rural farmers/serfs under the Turks for 500+ years and were definitely not the first to instigate revolution against them in the 1800's...so Mr. Dacic please stop your ridiculous LIES about Serb bravery when it is really Serb shame we should be talking about!

History filled with war criminals and protecting war criminals for years, what a history!

Strange this Serbia obsession with history.

Serbia lost a fight 600 years ago, so now they deserve something from Europe?

Because WW2? really, Dacic??

It would be funny if it weren't just sad.

Serbia has had a colorful history. Don't worry Mr. PM. The Intl community shall not forget your history, especially the 1990s.

History filled with war criminals and protecting war criminals for years, what a history!
(KOSOVA, 21 January 2013 17:24)

No, that's your history. What little made it to the history books.

Yes we stood up against muslim invaders however we serbs failed misserably when we weren't able to prevent albanians to settle Serbian lands. 200 years later we see how terrorist albanians thank their hosts by attacking and killing young and old serbs, desecrate their homes, places of worship and greaveyards. I honestly thing we can have peace with everyone but not albs. They are a people not of this planet. Backward and evil and with no grasp on reality. Where is Slobo when you need him?

oh dear!

Mr. Dacic please stop your ridiculous LIES about Serb bravery when it is really Serb shame we should be talking about!
(Meho, 21 January 2013 17:56)
===============================

So Meho, who was it that converted to Islam? Us or you?

"What is truly amazing is that you spit in the faces of Albanians and cannot possibly comprehend how they dare to hate you for it."

a New Day

You albanians don't need a reason to hate. Its in your blood. Besides your hate is contageous. The events of the last couple of days is proof of that. One more thing! You need to spend some time reading the comments of fellow albanians. There is a biblepassage that sums up the albanian mindset:

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Are you sure you want people to remember serb history...hint:war-crimes!
(KOSOVA, 21 January 2013 20:50)

There's far more to Serbian history than war crimes. Let's see, what's part of Albanian history?

.....

.....

.....

.....

oh there's got to be something here.....

Skenderbeg? Ok there's that. Oh wait, he died and the Turks took over and the Albanians became little Turks....

.....

.....

...... uh anything?

...... League of Prizren? Yeah, a Greater Albania within a Turkish Empire.

......

Long live Enver Hoxha! Albania strong! Pyramids!

....

....

NATO help us!

......

EU help us!

......

The present.

Serbia has had a colorful history. Don't worry Mr. PM. The Intl community shall not forget your history, especially the 1990s.
(cry me a river, 21 January 2013 18:30)

I think Ivica feels betrayed because the Holy Roman Emperor must have promised to the Serbs in the 14th century AD that they would be free to do whatever they want in the 1990s if they fought against the Turks in Kosovo in the 14th century AD :)

Are you sure you want people to remember serb history...hint:war-crimes!

"Where is Slobo when you need him?"

why did you get rid of him if you revered him oh so much :-) ?

The majority of EU citizens are struggling to make ends meet this month, January 2013. I can't imagine that they are expecting their leaders to hand out goodies to Serbia, or anyone else for that matter, based on their actions 70, 100 or even 600 years ago. It is the perceived Balkan turmoil, in Serbia and elsewhere, of the last 20 years that is uppermost in people's minds, along with the shenanigins of the Greeks (another Balkan state). I don't believe that Serbia should have to jump through additional hoops in order to join the EU but the notion that they are owed some special favourable treatment is laughable. Aside from all this, many don't want to join....

Yes we stood up against muslim invaders however we serbs failed misserably when we weren't able to prevent albanians to settle Serbian lands. 200 years later we see how terrorist albanians thank their hosts by attacking and killing young and old serbs, desecrate their homes, places of worship and greaveyards. I honestly thing we can have peace with everyone but not albs. They are a people not of this planet. Backward and evil and with no grasp on reality. Where is Slobo when you need him?
(MikeC, 21 January 2013 19:02)

No dude you didnt stand up to muslim invaders, you lost the very first battle you fought. Albanians resisted much longer and actually won 24 battles in the row. You woke up only when Russia came to your assistance. Albanians could have very well taken advantage of their superior status in the Turkish Empire and clean K-Serbs out of there, but they didnt. Big mistake.

You think you cant have peace with Albanians who indeed have caused no major harm to Serbs in history, while you know very well what you have suffered in the hands of your other neigbors.Maybe you need an Ante Pavelic, that guy knows how to treat you.

What are Albs suppose to do, roll over and die? You filled Kosovo and Serbia with mass graves, burned it to the ground, and you complain about albanians attacking graves and homes and churches? Huh how pathetic.

Yeah Serbia's History of killing thousands of innocent croat, bosnian and albanian civilians... A history that Dacic was part of it too.
History of hiding war criminals for years...
Serbia and other balkan nations lost the war against turks 600 years ago, so how can you say that you defended Europe when you actually lost the war? How can you defend something when you loose the war? This is absolutely unbelievable.
I trully feel sorry for the great serb nation that it allowed itself to be ruled again by a person who has a Milosevic type mentality.

(MikeC, 21 January 2013 19:02)

"I honestly thing we can have peace with everyone but not albs. They are a people not of this planet. Backward and evil and with no grasp on reality. Where is Slobo when you need him?"

Poor child, let me try and help: it is believed that there is life in other planets but the distances are as such that it is not possible for communication even less transportation of people to and from our Planet, so Albanians can not possible be from a different Planet.

As for as your question where is Slobo, it is documented he is dead and buried!

"I honestly thing we can have peace with everyone but not albs."

I agree, if you acknowledge the crimes you committed against the Croats & Bosnians you may have peace with them

(MikeC, 21 January 2013 19:02)
What is truly amazing is that you spit in the faces of Albanians and cannot possibly comprehend how they dare to hate you for it.

Unfortunately, the "victors" of the former Yugoslavia didn't learn from history. They ended up borrowing millions from the west and selling there country and their futures at the same time.

Serbian bravery ? I d rather say Serbian Slavery to war criminal and corrupted brainless politicians ! When politics try's to make people change perception of history, DICTATURE is coming ! For the sake of Serbia, President,,PM and deputy PM please resign, lying to your people and inventing a non existing pride is bad way ! Take example of former Federal republic of Germany !

"'Starting with the Turks - what happened 600 years ago, when we defended Europe from Turkish invasion, all the way to the First World War in which half of the male population was killed and the Second World War in which we lost one million inhabitants,' he said. "

I respect what Dacic says about World War I & II. But considering the modern national state Serbia the unrestricted successor of medieval Serbia shows how little he unfortunately knows about history.

It's strange the man can sing when he's obviously tone deaf.

"Yes we stood up against muslim invaders however we serbs failed misserably when we weren't able to prevent albanians to settle Serbian lands."

You just failed again with you attempt at comedy.

Because we fought against aggressive oppresion, the world should turn their heads when we want to commit aggressive oppresion.
Someone needs to tell Dacic that is not how life works.
Ihave to wonder what the rest of Europe was doing when Serbia was fighting to save it?

Daniel

its you are the alleged 'heavenly' people, take the first step. apologize to Croats & Bosnians for the horrid crimes of the 90's. claiming that Vukovar is Serbian and denying Srebrenica is not heavenly is it?

So Meho, who was it that converted to Islam? Us or you?
(Peggy, 21 January 2013 22:55)

and who was it that converted from paganism to orthodox ? You or they ?

"So Meho, who was it that converted to Islam? Us or you?
(Peggy, 21 January 2013 22:55) "

So what precisely's the problem with converting to Islam hundreds of years ago?

Here's a great definition for "nation":

A nation's a group of people that shares the same lies about its history.

"There's far more to Serbian history than war crimes."

yes, there's also celebrating the life of a fictional person like Milos Obolic. oh and sheltering war criminals.

Bugar from Skoplje

Is this why you yourself use the word Arnaut, because Bulgars are a Turkic people (directly related to the Turks) ?

Bugar from Skoplje

no point in pretending otherwise, i have no idea what you're on about, i strongly suspect that neither do you.

What history Dacicu? Myths, propaganda, mass killings and ethnic cleansing. Yeah right that is not working out anymore.

Peggy: your comments and alas those of Dacic betray the root cause of a lot of the problems in the Balkans today: you, and he, don't like muslims. You ask 'who was it that converted to Islam'? in the same way that you would ask a man if he has interfered with his children. Being a muslim is no crime or disgrace, it's a fact of life for a billion people(before you ask I'm a C of E Christian). If you have practical reasons for disliking Kosovo Albanians (or anyone else for that matter) then fill your boots, but to base your hatred on the fact that someone has had the temerity to stray from the 'true path' of orthodoxy is lame.

So Peggy who was that it converted from an Iranian muslim to orthodox,is it .US or YOU?

MikeC, 21 January 2013 23:15)That was a very good verse, you should try applying it in your life.
As I am not Albanian, I do not have this natural hate in my blood, you claim they have. But I do have a tendency to defend Albanians as I feel they have been persecuted by Serbs too long and an Independent Kosovo is the only way out of that.
I am not saying Albanians don't hate Serbs and some spew their venom in these forums but remembering what ethniticity edits the comments one can say without a doubt whose comments come through with a huge majority.

What is truly sad is that all these Albanian/croatian nicnames are all over the net from huff post to NYT and Washington post, you losers go around and insult Serbs in over 3 languages, including our own, Serbian. I'd say get a life but knowing how poor Albania is, there's no way for that to happen xD

Let's see, what's part of Albanian history?

I will add on your albo history list 2 important record:
#1 albo General George Maniakes(1042yr)
#2 Turks word "Arnaut"
#1 is the year when albo see Balkan first time.
#2 Turks recognise them and say "A....t" or "people who don't com back".
In reality poor Albo is not eble to erase this part of his history.



(Albo Troll Wrangler, 21 January 2013 23:53)

We always stood up and fought the nazis and fascism unlike the albanians that 100%sided with Hitler during ww2. Why are 90%of the comments on this news albanian when it has absolutely nothing to do with Kosovo?

I agree, if you acknowledge the crimes you committed against the Croats & Bosnians you may have peace with them
(Nikolle, 21 January 2013 21:03)

Funny you say this when all week the only thing we have been reading about on B92 is how Croatian, Bosnian and Serbian and even Montenegrin governments have been meeting and expressing their mutual desire for bettering their already quite stable relations, and then the articles about Albanians who attack serbian children, serbian cemetaries and grave stones, trying to destroy the beautiful serbian monestaries and the old lovely people inhabiting them, and disputably sickest of all destroyed a decades old monument for people who fought the nazis out of the balkans in world war 2 when Albania capitulated and was busy helping hitler, and this all in reaction to Serbian government taking action on serbian government controlled territory?

Holy cow is there anything inside your head at all besides a big lump of tar?

Look at all these Balkan arm chair, keyboard warriors.

People in the West look at all of you like some Neanderthals. You behave like you just evolved from monkeys. Forget about politics, please shave your backs and stand up on your back legs people...

I can't think of any Serbian battle with the Turks that gave the Turks the message that they should turn around and go home. Yes, all that happened is that many Serbs fought for the Turks and continued to do so after the battle of Kosovo Polje.

The ones that fought for the turks were once serbian children that were kidnapped from their parents that refused to obey the prima nocte law imposed in bosnia by the ottoman empire and refused to pay taxes to the local vezir. First learn something before you make a stupid comment.

And the reason why the serbs celebrate the battle of kosovo polje is that thousands of young, brave men had the guts to stand up against a superior power and fight for their families and their country even though the outcome of the battle was quite clear. That is something that you albanians will never ever understand because whenever a superior power conquered your territory the only thing you did was to turn your back and put your pants down to your ancles ready to be you know what.

Europe owes Serbia nothing.

Strange this Serbia obsession with history.

Serbia lost a fight 600 years ago, so now they deserve something from Europe?

Because WW2? really, Dacic??

It would be funny if it weren't just sad.
(Danilo, 21 January 2013 19:37)

Let me educate you a bit, because you are in great need of an education: The battle of Kosovo is where the Serbs, completely outnumbered by Turks, chose death instead of converting to islam. That is who we are, and that legacy lives with us today. The albanians and Bosnian muslims can not say the same now can they, for they converted. I am surprised your ancestors didn't convert Danilo, you seem like the type that would gladly convert for a few pennies even.
You're pathetic, and in the future, please don't insult us all by insinuating you have any blood ties to Serbia. You're an albanian at heart. And yes, that is an insult.
Cheers!!

JJ

I think the international community is so ashamed of their Kosovo creation that they are struggling to make sure the horrible news of what is going on there doesnt reach mainstream europe. They have unleashed pure evil. If I was Europe I would keep my mouth shut to about my creation.

The only things Serbs are taught as children is to call Croats Ustase, to deny any wrondoings to Albanians/Kosovars, to say all the former republics of Yugo attacked innocent Serbs, bring up their version of history and NEVER admit to a single criminal act that Serbs did on the world stage,,,NO...they say the PR teams created these pictures for the world...none of those atrocities happened in their minds!

someone mentioned Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro...are getting together and strengthening relations....but 6 weeks ago Serbia was claiming the Balkans are once again unstable beccause the Hague found Gotovina "not guilty"! Interesting...so the region is unstable because the Hague didnt find sufficient evidence...and Serbia has a hissy fit and claims the region unstable?

Someone here said it the best...Serbia was thriving when all the republics were together...today they are in the same category as North Korea...old habits die hard...we arent living in the past...but you certainly are!

Serbia has potential...incredibly intelligent people...great people actually...but they cant get out of their HATRED and FINGERPOINTING and continue to live in the past! I would love to see them move on...we dont even need to apologise to each other...actions speak louder than words...lets go...people need opportunities and the region needs to prosper before we all get left behind!

peggy - your comments are tiring...jasenovac...nazi gestures at tennis matches...you seem to be more interested in a "tit for tat" than you do about moving forward. we can go on for days, we wont solve those "problems" here on this site! i personally dont understand those clowns that make nazi gestures but at the same time they are irrelevant to me and a small portion of Croatia's population. you can say the same thing abot Serbs at soccer games and their well known hooligans. I dont like extremism from any side and to be honest...if you cant stop using Jasenovac to justify things that are part of today's discussions then you need help...something you wont get here in this site! I cant help you and I highly doubt anyone here can...maybe seek a psychiatrist...Dr Karadzic might be helpful for you!

Operation Storm is and forever will be part of history...once again, there are two sides to every story..."our side" seems to be internationally accepted..."your side" of the story is considered "sour grapes" and a result of your Serbia losing a war they started but couldnt finish! MOVE ON!

"pure" or "not pure"...whats the point? Croatia has a mix also...Austrians, Germans, Italians, Hungarians, Serbs....and so on...so what...again...you are talking about history and i think you need to let go and move forward!

I honestly thing we can have peace with everyone but not albs."

I agree, if you acknowledge the crimes you committed against the Croats & Bosnians you may have peace with them
(Nikolle, 21 January 2013 21:03

We will as soon as they acknowledge Jasenovac and all other crime that they committed against the serbs. The number of victims in the last war is about 100 000 on all sides of which more than 30%were serbs, but a serb civilian life means nothing to you right?Need I to remind you about the number of victims in the concentration camp Jasenovac?

Yeah Serbia's History of killing thousands of innocent croat, bosnian and albanian civilians... A history that Dacic was part of it too.
History of hiding war criminals for years...
Serbia and other balkan nations lost the war against turks 600 years ago, so how can you say that you defended Europe when you actually lost the war? How can you defend something when you loose the war? This is absolutely unbelievable.
I trully feel sorry for the great serb nation that it allowed itself to be ruled again by a person who has a Milosevic type mentality. Petar Petrovic Njegos, writer of "Gorski Vijenac"now thats a real crnogorac. Just like Radovan Karadzic by the way.

Of course we defended europe because we stopped the turks from moving on to the west and finally we drove them out after 600 years?Talking about warcrimes, did u forget that your fellow "montenegrins"ruined the city of Dubrovnik?Why dont u mention all the crimes committed by croats and bosniaks upon serbs?More than 30%of the total number of victims in the war were serbs, did u forget that?

"Is this why you yourself use the word Arnaut, because Bulgars are a Turkic people (directly related to the Turks)?"
@ (Nikolle, 22 January 2013 10:41)

Common Nikolle I don't invented this word "Arnaut" myself. Word "Arnaut" is very popular before 1912 Finally after WWI evrybody use modern name same us albo #1. Congratulation Albo #2 is 100 yr. old.

Daniel

its you are the alleged 'heavenly' people, take the first step. apologize to Croats & Bosnians for the horrid crimes of the 90's. claiming that Vukovar is Serbian and denying Srebrenica is not heavenly is it?
(Nikolle, 22 January 2013 15:01)

As I stated earlier I will after they apologize for all the civilians they killed. We have waited more than 60yrs for the croats to apologize about Jasenovac.

The only things Serbs are taught as children is to call Croats Ustase,
============================
Are we wrong about that?
You proudly displayed Nazi gestures not long ago at the Australia Open.
You flock to Thomson concerts and proudly sing Ustashe songs.
Now you complain about us calling you Ustashe?

You call us Chetniks all the time. Are you forgetting that?

Have you forgotten Jasenovac?
Have you forgotten Operation Storm where you killed many and ethnically cleansed Serbs from Krajina?

So who are you to complain about anything?
BTW, if you cared about Albanians and Bosnian Muslims you would've offered them safe haven in Croatia instead of just ushering them through to somewhere else. Tell me, how pure is Croatia and how pure is Serbia? The answer to that question will tell you who the real racists are.

Peggy: your comments and alas those of Dacic betray the root cause of a lot of the problems in the Balkans today: you, and he, don't like muslims. You ask 'who was it that converted to Islam'?
=====================================
My question was asked for a reason and not for hating Muslims.
A comment was made about Serbian shame in losing to Turks. I asked the question to highlight that Serbs had nothing to be ashamed of because they fought for their religion while some took the cowardly way and converted to stay safe.

In future, please don't try to distort what I say. You know that the question was my response to a specific statement made and not out of hatred.
If you pelple can't respond to my statement then don't but don't try to distort something I say in order to appear clever.

I think the international community is so ashamed of their Kosovo creation that they are struggling to make sure the horrible news of what is going on there doesnt reach mainstream europe.
(MikeC, 22 January 2013 22:28)

Yeah, but the West is not as technologically advanced as China to be able to prevent the masses from learning the truth. But I'm sure that if they ask, China would be glad to help with its expertise in this area...

"You proudly displayed Nazi gestures not long ago at the Australia Open"

Peggy,

you are looking in the mirror when you see these "croats" in Australia.

Canadian Hrvat - You ran away from our last debate without anwering many of my questions. Now I find you over here arguing with Peggy and spewing your propagandist drivel again. I find it interesting that you now take offense to Serbs referring to Croats as Ustasha, yet in one of our earlier convesations, you said many of your relatives fought proudly for the Ustasha. You contradict yourself.

And before you ran away like a little girl, I asked you some questions that you failed to answer. Here they are again: What happened to the 20,000 plus Serbs who lived in Mostar before the war? And if the Croats were right in their cause, why did they spend millions on US PR firms to influence the western media?

I'm sure you'll run away before answering just like last time. That's to be expected. After all, you were taugt by Ustasha relatives. Running away is in your blood.

From Canadian Hrvat: Hrvati have never run we just conquer...remember that...remember "Oluja"?

HA, HA, HA. What have Croats ever conquered...by themselves?? Without NATO, you guys are nothing. But having someone else fight your battles is nothing new for Croatians. While you guys were the stable boys of the Austro-Hungarian Empire the Serbs were given land in the Krajina by your masters in return for their military service. If not for the Serbs, you and the rest of your brave ancestors would be bowing to the east and praying to Allah 5 times a day.

And a little closer to home for you, the Ustasha ran like the cowards that they were when they realized they were on the losing side in WWII. Many thousands of them ran to the Croat commie leader Tito and joined the Partizans to save their skin. Perhaps some of your relatives were among them.

And your comment that you don't care about the 20,000 Serbs who were ethnically cleansed by Croats from Mostar in their quest to create the ethnically pure state of Herceg Bosna was very predictable. But it is precisely why Serbs & Croats are a long way from normalizing relations. You say the Ustasha fought proudly for Croatia's freedom. But you say nothing about their stated goal of exterminating the Serbs. I guess many die hard Germans still think the Third Reich was a good thing also.

You are a piece of work. It must really burn you to know that Novak Djokovic won the Australian Open where many Ustasha settled after WWII. LOL

Canadian Hrvat - For the 100th time, please tell me why the Croatian Gov't. paid millions of dollars to US PR firms to influence the western media? Did they have something to hide? Was their cause not as noble and honorable as you would have us believe? Or were they still trying to overcome the image that they created for themselves during WWII when they ran the most brutal concentration camp at Jasenovac and others dedicated to killing children? Ask your tata and djedo about that. I'd be interested in what they have to say...even though I can probably predict it pretty accurately.

From Canadian Hrvat: nobody needs a PR team for live footage on Vukovar, Dubrovnik and so on...

Then please tell me why the Croatian Gov't. paid millions of dollars to not 1 but 3 US PR firms? If as you imply, the Croats were such downtrodden victims, why did they need the help of PR firms to CREATE a public image? PLEASE ANSWER!

Here's some more handywork from the Croat & Muslim paid PR firms: At the end of 1992, it was widely reported that the Serbs had raped up to 50,000 Croat & Muslim women. When one does the math, this means that the Serbs would have had to rape 500 women a day! How then could they have committed all the other atrocities that they were accused of? There's only so many hours in a day. This is what your money bought - distortions of reality. The Serbs didn't lose the war on the ground, they lost it in the media.

Your denials don't surprise me, after all you were taught by Ustasha relatives who were part of the most barbaric and genocidal regime known to man. Even their Nazi partners were appalled by their savage brutality. Keep telling yourself they were freedom fighters to ease your conscious. What a joke....a sad joke.

From Canadian Hrvat: "...we wont agree so the bext thing to do is 1 of two things...discuss respectfully or continue insulting..." And then you go on to insult me. Very classy.

If you recall, our exchanges began with me responding to one of your many attacks, insults and general berating of Serbs. You try to rewrite history and when you are challenged and corrected, you suddenly don't want to talk about history anymore.

You claim that I insulted yor family and your country's history. Well, if you are referring to my comments about the murderous Ustasha regime that you claim your family members proudly fought for, then I am guilty as charged.

And as for you calling me a Chetnik, I'll take as a compliment. I have no problem whatsoever being associated with a group who saved more than 500 downed US airmen during WWII. President Truman awarded Draza Mihaijlovich with the Legion of Merit, the highest military award that a non-American can receive during war time.

So you can go on and believe in Ustasha war criminals like Ante Pavlic and Mile Budak and I'll line up on the right side of history and continue to stand behind the Chetniks. My conscience is clear, is yours?

Oh the PM is so stubborn, the international community doesn't like Serbia for many reasons which he's too proud to admit.

Nikolle Vukovar not Serbian??

I suggest you to read this:
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6811/antunradicnemahrvata.jpg

If you can't read Croatian i can translate a little:
A croatian writer/politician Antun radic wrote the following in his magazine DOM 1904 issue 19
"If you would say 20 years ago go a little further in to croatia for example Vinkovci!and you would tell those people you are croatian and that those people there are croatian--- you would be lucky if the whole world would laugh about you.
Because of that you would be easily beaten up"

then he continues it was not only the case with the nobles but with the (Sokci and Raci) Serbian tribes!!
anyway that article was about who are the croats and he proves that the nobles of Slavonia felt themselves better and to be better you were a croat while poor people kept their identity/ethnicity.

That proves that a Croat acknowledged that in those parts of Slavonia did not live Croats but were Serbian.

The writings of Croatian intellectuals have more value to many then your Garbage....

Daniel

Be the bigger man, apologize to the Bosnians and Croats. Show them you are not on their level

you said: "For the 100th time, please tell me why the Croatian Gov't. paid millions of dollars to US PR firms to influence the western media?"

PROVE IT! I am not surprised you dont admit anything....and for that reason I can see I am dealing with an uneducated little kid! why do you have soo much resentment and hatred njegos? why dont you leave the past behind you...does it bother you soo much that you feel the need to make up some created historical event that nobody has ever heard or believes? I'm actually scratching my head thinking why would you believe these things?

as per Novak...svaka mu cast...cestitam! I'm happy he's done well, he seems like a really good person and a good representative for Srbija unlike you!

20,000 Serbs dead? WHAT? I wont touch that one...you have some imagination that only you believe...and I could care less...ethnic cleansing was what your people did to Muslimane and Hrvati...and if you lost your lives attempting to do so that surely isnt my problem!

Hrvatska defended their own territory...simple as that! you can talk about Tito, Tudjman, Milosevic, Saddam, Al Qaeda...whoever you want...blame the world but in the end...you have yourselves to blame...we know it, the world knows it and you should just deal with it instead of trying to rewrite history!Croatia is going forward...hopefully Serbia as well...you are living in the past and thats sad to see...

zivjela....zivjela...zivjela croatiaaaaaaaa!!!!!

Canadian Hrvat - Over the course of our internet exchanges you have proven to be in over your head as you have dodged questions repeatedly, but for you to fabricate statements and attribute them to me is down right shameful. Your arguements have been weak at best, but please stop making things up. When have I ever stated that 20,000 Serbs from Mostar were killed by Croatians? They were driven from their homes by Croats and many, I am sure were killed, but I can't put a number on it because I have not seen it from a reliable source.

And asking me to 'prove' that the Croat gov't. paid US PR firms million of dollars to influence the western media is comical. Are you serious? Do you really think I'm making this up? There is so much reliable information out there on this subject, I don't know where to start. Read Diana Johnstone's piece @ www.sourcewatch.com entitled Ruder Finn's work for Croatia, sub-titled Murky History. She details how US congrssmen and western media outlets were deluged with press releases designed to 'create a public opinion.' Earlier, I referred you to Peter Brock's book, Media Cleansing. There he devotes an entire chapter on Croatia's & the Muslim's use of US PR firms.

I know you're intellectually challenged, but please do a little research and not rely only on your tata's & djedo's revisionst Ustasha propaganda.

You now have your assignment, happy reading!

Hrvat - I will type real slow and try not to use any big words so that this time you will understand, but I still have my doubts. The Croatian gov't. paid Ruder Finn, Hill & Knowlton and Waterman Associates millions to CREATE an image of the Serbs. Example: The Chicago Tribune ran a story with a picture of an old woman mourning her dead son at a freshly dug grave outside of a church. The caption read that her son was a Croat and was brutally killed and mutilated by separtist Serbs in Croatia. But the cross on the grave was an orthodox cross and the church clearly a Serbian church with its distinctive Byzintine architecture. But the average American would never know the distinction. This type of dishonest reporting was repeated thousands of times during the war. Years later when truthful books like Media Cleansing by award winning journalist, Peter Brock came out, it didn't matter. The damage was done and the western world had their bad guys. The PR firms knew that 30 second sound bites and pictures in papers resonated with the American public and they exploited that concept very deceitfully.

I never said that the Serbs were without blame, but neither were the Croats & Muslims. It was a brutal 3 way civil war. I am all in favor of prosecuting war criminals whatever their nationality. But it is just irresponsible of you to tell me that the Serbs were the only bad guys as the western media would have us believe. The truth is out there, but you're not interested in the truth.

njegos - you said "Then please tell me why the Croatian Gov't. paid millions of dollars" - and I already answered that for you...were you looking for another answer? here is is again for you..."to develop and carry out strategies and tactics for communication"! all they had to do was allow the opportunity to see what was happening..."strategies and tactics for communication"...you guys did the rest!

why do you have soo much hatred? I'll tell you how much I hate Serbs...next week the local mesar is making a new batch of suhe kubasice and several other smoked meat products...he is making me a special batch of grah...especially for me (my mother passed away several years ago and nobody was as good a cook as she was)...they dont make grah for the public but guess what...he's making it for me...here's the kicker...HE'S SERBIAN...HE KNOWS I'M CROATIAN AND HE ABSOLUTELY RESPECTS ME AND LIKES ME VERY MUCH! I'm gonna bring him a bottle of homemade loza...we'll have a shot together I'll say hvala vam najljepse gospodin...give him a hug and he'll say ma nema problema prijatelju...

I am proud of my heritage...the Ustase in my family were good people...none did any wrongdoings to anyone...not all Cetniks were savages and not all Ustase were either...live in the present, you may find you'll enjoy life a whole lot more!

You said the reason for paying PR firms was..."to develop and carry out strategies and tactics for communication". So I guess those strategies included distorting the truth and outright lying. The PR firms knew that they could get away with blatant lies because they would never be held accountable. There was no fact checking and verification of the truth. As long as the money kept flowing, they kept irresponsibly sensationalizing the news. The PR firms weren't paid to report the truth, they were paid to create public opinion. And they did.

And for your information, I don't hate Croatians. I have a good friend who is Croatian and it might surprise you to know that I have an Albanian buddy also. We have never spoken about the wars. My Croatian friend's aunt & uncle own a bar and we drink slivo and eat cevapcici there occasionally. My entire family is from Montenegro and when I'm with my Croatian & Albanian friends we talk about our similarities and not our differences. I don't paint people with a broad brush. There are good & bad in all groups of people. I would ask that you don't paint all Serbs with a broad brush as the media has.

njegos - first I will say this...you have always attacked me called me an Ustasa and accused my family of atrocities...you said i ran away from our conversation but I actually replied a few times and it wasnt posted for whatever reason when in fact there was nothing derogatory...you are accusatory and you enjoy the stance of pretending you are my educator! I have just as much pride as anyone does...I'm never going to cower to you...I have said several several times live for today not in the past but you seem to enjoy the rants of WWII and all your rehearsed and BS opinions which I could care less for...we will never agree...even with this PR thing...the PR team you talk about would have had nothing to report if none of it happened...if they embellished...everyone did BUT what was clear was who was the aggressor and just how much more damage they did!

Crnagora...FYI - two of my closest friends in Velez were Crno Gorci...1) Vukasin Petranovic...and his daughter is still my friend today...2) Dzevad Rastoder...and actually he was my roommate for a few weeks in '86...I consider Crnagorci good people...just like serbian people and makedonci and so on...we disagree on politics so dont impose your opinion and attempt to teach me what you think is truth...its just your version I and we have ours...we feel very wronged by you...btw...it was (I think if I am not wrong) crnagorci that pummeled Dubrovnik...it happened...its over...idemo naprijed!

Hrvat - We've been talking in circles for some now, so this will be my last post on this topic. I will correct you on one more thing, however. You said that I accused your family of atrocities. I never did that. I did accuse the regime they fought for of atrocities because it has been proven and documented. Your relatives fought for a regime whose stated policy was to exterminate Serbs living in Croatia. Ante Pavlic along with many of his henchmen were named as war criminals. Few, if any, paid for their crimes.

You ask why I continually bring up the past. The reason is that to understand the current/recent conflict, one must understand the history of the region. And from a Serbian perspective, Croats never acknowledged the crimes they committed against Serbs during WWII, but instead brought back Ustasha symbols and named streets in Zagreb after Ustasha leaders whose goal it was to eliminate Serbs. Could you imagine Germans naming streets after Nazi criminals and waving flags with swastikas on them? The world would be in an uproar.

Reconciliation cannot occur without acknowledgement of past sins. That would be the foundation for better relations between Serbs & Croats, but as evidenced by our exchanges, I'm afraid that's a long way off. Dovidjenja.

njegos - I am not asking for any explanations because i can tell you...we wont agree so the bext thing to do is 1 of two things...discuss respectfully or continue insulting...this would require you to self reflect...which as far as I have seen you dont have the ability to do that! I have seen many here exactly like you...you have that old balkan mentality...you can never be wrong!!!

your comment about your croatian and albanian friend...I call BS...I'd never be able to be a friend of someone that insults my family and our history...you cannot hide behind your so called "friend" screen....actions speak louder than words...you are a cetnik through and through!

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
(MikeC, 21 January 2013 23:15) MikeC finally seeing the lite hanging around me has done wonders for you.

njegos - I "ran away"...Hrvati have never run we just conquer...remember that...remember "Oluja"?

you asked another off topic question "What happened to the 20,000 plus Serbs who lived in Mostar before the war"...do you really think I care? Do you think it matters to me where they went since they started the war?

"you said many of your relatives fought proudly for the Ustasha" - YUP...why should I be embarassed to admit my family member fought for our freedom? none did wrong...they fought for our freedom!

this is the best quote njegos - "After all, you were taugt by Ustasha relatives. Running away is in your blood." - WHO RAN? Milosevic was disgusred in you people...we defended with primitive weapons and held for months...what happened when we gained the upper hand...you scattered in less that 48 hours....funny how that works right? you have some memory!

for arguement sake...why do you bring up the past? what does it do for you...deflect what your kind have recently done? we cant change what happened in the 30's and 40's but your people repeated history in the 90's...I sad kukas! Kukavica...you should think about tomorrow...remember yesterday and try to improve your life, NOT constantly live in the past and attempt to give history lessons that only you Srbi believe! Idemo naprijed...if you cant then get help...nobody cares about your delusional history we have the truth on the world scene!

FYI - I responded to you on the other comment but they didnt post it!

ajme...so you first said several weeks back that Croatian PR firms made up the story about how you attacked Dubrovnik and Zadar and now you are saying those things didnt happen because Croatia got the "US congrssmen and western media outlets were deluged with press releases designed to 'create a public opinion."??? do you have any idea of what you are talking about here? one thing is to hire a company to create awareness and ask for support...another is to fabricate...nobody fabricated when you attacked Croatians in Croatia...nobody fabricated Skabrnje, Dubrovnik, Zadar, Vukovar...or anywhere else....we were smart enough to use diplomatic means and try to create attantion of what was happening....HOW ON EARTH DO YOU CONFUSE "to develop and carry out strategies and tactics for communication" with FABRICATING?

I am seriously baffled about your intention regarding the PR firm? If I understand you correctly you are saying Serbs didnt attack anyone and the footage of the war was edited to make it look like Serbs attacked and bombarded...but it didnt happen...they were all actually in their homes eating sarma and drinking sljivovica...and the war was self inflicted...made to look like they were Serbs and you took the fall for someone else's lies...is that what you are saying? if you are...dont respond to me...you have serious issues!

this is what the world saw...serbs bombarding Dubrovnik...the massacre of Vukovar...the non stop bombarding of Sarajevo...most Americans and Canadians had no idea what Vukovar was or Slavonski Brod or Zadar, Skabrnje and so on....nobody really cared either...

Croatia and Slovenia were peaceful...the rest of European cummunism was falling and they the Croatian and Slovenian delegations demanded a looser federation, while the Serbian delegation, headed by Miloševic opposed this!...(Velika Srbija...of course!)

I watched the tanks roll out of the barracks towards Slovenia in 1991...and the funny things was on tv Beograd was showing the same exact footage and telling their citizens those were enemy tanks going into Serb populated towns and villages...I saw this...I was sitting in Dubrava a suburb of Zagreb and 3 days later left for Germany...you want to talk about propaganda but you twist what may be a mere 0.00000001% of what really happened! nobody cares for the "cross on the grave was an orthodox cross and the church clearly a Serbian church"...but how will you explain the massacre in Skabrnje where not a single thing (human or animal) was left alive...it was burned to the ground...Vukovar was devastated...and you're gonna bring up a story of a cross when all the other facts are sitting right there...how can you divert and deflect FACT and look in another direction?

njegos - nobody needs a PR team for live footage on Vukovar, Dubrovnik and so on...

History filled with war criminals and protecting war criminals for years, what a history!

I can't think of any Serbian battle with the Turks that gave the Turks the message that they should turn around and go home. Yes, all that happened is that many Serbs fought for the Turks and continued to do so after the battle of Kosovo Polje. Not only that---the Serbs were happy to be rural farmers/serfs under the Turks for 500+ years and were definitely not the first to instigate revolution against them in the 1800's...so Mr. Dacic please stop your ridiculous LIES about Serb bravery when it is really Serb shame we should be talking about!

Yes we stood up against muslim invaders however we serbs failed misserably when we weren't able to prevent albanians to settle Serbian lands. 200 years later we see how terrorist albanians thank their hosts by attacking and killing young and old serbs, desecrate their homes, places of worship and greaveyards. I honestly thing we can have peace with everyone but not albs. They are a people not of this planet. Backward and evil and with no grasp on reality. Where is Slobo when you need him?

Serbia has had a colorful history. Don't worry Mr. PM. The Intl community shall not forget your history, especially the 1990s.

Strange this Serbia obsession with history.

Serbia lost a fight 600 years ago, so now they deserve something from Europe?

Because WW2? really, Dacic??

It would be funny if it weren't just sad.

History filled with war criminals and protecting war criminals for years, what a history!
(KOSOVA, 21 January 2013 17:24)

No, that's your history. What little made it to the history books.

oh dear!

Are you sure you want people to remember serb history...hint:war-crimes!

"I honestly thing we can have peace with everyone but not albs."

I agree, if you acknowledge the crimes you committed against the Croats & Bosnians you may have peace with them

Yes we stood up against muslim invaders however we serbs failed misserably when we weren't able to prevent albanians to settle Serbian lands. 200 years later we see how terrorist albanians thank their hosts by attacking and killing young and old serbs, desecrate their homes, places of worship and greaveyards. I honestly thing we can have peace with everyone but not albs. They are a people not of this planet. Backward and evil and with no grasp on reality. Where is Slobo when you need him?
(MikeC, 21 January 2013 19:02)

No dude you didnt stand up to muslim invaders, you lost the very first battle you fought. Albanians resisted much longer and actually won 24 battles in the row. You woke up only when Russia came to your assistance. Albanians could have very well taken advantage of their superior status in the Turkish Empire and clean K-Serbs out of there, but they didnt. Big mistake.

You think you cant have peace with Albanians who indeed have caused no major harm to Serbs in history, while you know very well what you have suffered in the hands of your other neigbors.Maybe you need an Ante Pavelic, that guy knows how to treat you.

What are Albs suppose to do, roll over and die? You filled Kosovo and Serbia with mass graves, burned it to the ground, and you complain about albanians attacking graves and homes and churches? Huh how pathetic.

Yeah Serbia's History of killing thousands of innocent croat, bosnian and albanian civilians... A history that Dacic was part of it too.
History of hiding war criminals for years...
Serbia and other balkan nations lost the war against turks 600 years ago, so how can you say that you defended Europe when you actually lost the war? How can you defend something when you loose the war? This is absolutely unbelievable.
I trully feel sorry for the great serb nation that it allowed itself to be ruled again by a person who has a Milosevic type mentality.

"Where is Slobo when you need him?"

why did you get rid of him if you revered him oh so much :-) ?

Serbian bravery ? I d rather say Serbian Slavery to war criminal and corrupted brainless politicians ! When politics try's to make people change perception of history, DICTATURE is coming ! For the sake of Serbia, President,,PM and deputy PM please resign, lying to your people and inventing a non existing pride is bad way ! Take example of former Federal republic of Germany !

(MikeC, 21 January 2013 19:02)
What is truly amazing is that you spit in the faces of Albanians and cannot possibly comprehend how they dare to hate you for it.

Are you sure you want people to remember serb history...hint:war-crimes!
(KOSOVA, 21 January 2013 20:50)

There's far more to Serbian history than war crimes. Let's see, what's part of Albanian history?

.....

.....

.....

.....

oh there's got to be something here.....

Skenderbeg? Ok there's that. Oh wait, he died and the Turks took over and the Albanians became little Turks....

.....

.....

...... uh anything?

...... League of Prizren? Yeah, a Greater Albania within a Turkish Empire.

......

Long live Enver Hoxha! Albania strong! Pyramids!

....

....

NATO help us!

......

EU help us!

......

The present.

(MikeC, 21 January 2013 19:02)

"I honestly thing we can have peace with everyone but not albs. They are a people not of this planet. Backward and evil and with no grasp on reality. Where is Slobo when you need him?"

Poor child, let me try and help: it is believed that there is life in other planets but the distances are as such that it is not possible for communication even less transportation of people to and from our Planet, so Albanians can not possible be from a different Planet.

As for as your question where is Slobo, it is documented he is dead and buried!

Serbia has had a colorful history. Don't worry Mr. PM. The Intl community shall not forget your history, especially the 1990s.
(cry me a river, 21 January 2013 18:30)

I think Ivica feels betrayed because the Holy Roman Emperor must have promised to the Serbs in the 14th century AD that they would be free to do whatever they want in the 1990s if they fought against the Turks in Kosovo in the 14th century AD :)

"Yes we stood up against muslim invaders however we serbs failed misserably when we weren't able to prevent albanians to settle Serbian lands."

You just failed again with you attempt at comedy.

"'Starting with the Turks - what happened 600 years ago, when we defended Europe from Turkish invasion, all the way to the First World War in which half of the male population was killed and the Second World War in which we lost one million inhabitants,' he said. "

I respect what Dacic says about World War I & II. But considering the modern national state Serbia the unrestricted successor of medieval Serbia shows how little he unfortunately knows about history.

It's strange the man can sing when he's obviously tone deaf.

Because we fought against aggressive oppresion, the world should turn their heads when we want to commit aggressive oppresion.
Someone needs to tell Dacic that is not how life works.
Ihave to wonder what the rest of Europe was doing when Serbia was fighting to save it?

What history Dacicu? Myths, propaganda, mass killings and ethnic cleansing. Yeah right that is not working out anymore.

"There's far more to Serbian history than war crimes."

yes, there's also celebrating the life of a fictional person like Milos Obolic. oh and sheltering war criminals.

What is truly sad is that all these Albanian/croatian nicnames are all over the net from huff post to NYT and Washington post, you losers go around and insult Serbs in over 3 languages, including our own, Serbian. I'd say get a life but knowing how poor Albania is, there's no way for that to happen xD

The majority of EU citizens are struggling to make ends meet this month, January 2013. I can't imagine that they are expecting their leaders to hand out goodies to Serbia, or anyone else for that matter, based on their actions 70, 100 or even 600 years ago. It is the perceived Balkan turmoil, in Serbia and elsewhere, of the last 20 years that is uppermost in people's minds, along with the shenanigins of the Greeks (another Balkan state). I don't believe that Serbia should have to jump through additional hoops in order to join the EU but the notion that they are owed some special favourable treatment is laughable. Aside from all this, many don't want to join....

Mr. Dacic please stop your ridiculous LIES about Serb bravery when it is really Serb shame we should be talking about!
(Meho, 21 January 2013 17:56)
===============================

So Meho, who was it that converted to Islam? Us or you?

"What is truly amazing is that you spit in the faces of Albanians and cannot possibly comprehend how they dare to hate you for it."

a New Day

You albanians don't need a reason to hate. Its in your blood. Besides your hate is contageous. The events of the last couple of days is proof of that. One more thing! You need to spend some time reading the comments of fellow albanians. There is a biblepassage that sums up the albanian mindset:

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

MikeC, 21 January 2013 23:15)That was a very good verse, you should try applying it in your life.
As I am not Albanian, I do not have this natural hate in my blood, you claim they have. But I do have a tendency to defend Albanians as I feel they have been persecuted by Serbs too long and an Independent Kosovo is the only way out of that.
I am not saying Albanians don't hate Serbs and some spew their venom in these forums but remembering what ethniticity edits the comments one can say without a doubt whose comments come through with a huge majority.

I honestly thing we can have peace with everyone but not albs."

I agree, if you acknowledge the crimes you committed against the Croats & Bosnians you may have peace with them
(Nikolle, 21 January 2013 21:03

We will as soon as they acknowledge Jasenovac and all other crime that they committed against the serbs. The number of victims in the last war is about 100 000 on all sides of which more than 30%were serbs, but a serb civilian life means nothing to you right?Need I to remind you about the number of victims in the concentration camp Jasenovac?

The only things Serbs are taught as children is to call Croats Ustase, to deny any wrondoings to Albanians/Kosovars, to say all the former republics of Yugo attacked innocent Serbs, bring up their version of history and NEVER admit to a single criminal act that Serbs did on the world stage,,,NO...they say the PR teams created these pictures for the world...none of those atrocities happened in their minds!

someone mentioned Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro...are getting together and strengthening relations....but 6 weeks ago Serbia was claiming the Balkans are once again unstable beccause the Hague found Gotovina "not guilty"! Interesting...so the region is unstable because the Hague didnt find sufficient evidence...and Serbia has a hissy fit and claims the region unstable?

Someone here said it the best...Serbia was thriving when all the republics were together...today they are in the same category as North Korea...old habits die hard...we arent living in the past...but you certainly are!

Serbia has potential...incredibly intelligent people...great people actually...but they cant get out of their HATRED and FINGERPOINTING and continue to live in the past! I would love to see them move on...we dont even need to apologise to each other...actions speak louder than words...lets go...people need opportunities and the region needs to prosper before we all get left behind!

So Meho, who was it that converted to Islam? Us or you?
(Peggy, 21 January 2013 22:55)

and who was it that converted from paganism to orthodox ? You or they ?

I agree, if you acknowledge the crimes you committed against the Croats & Bosnians you may have peace with them
(Nikolle, 21 January 2013 21:03)

Funny you say this when all week the only thing we have been reading about on B92 is how Croatian, Bosnian and Serbian and even Montenegrin governments have been meeting and expressing their mutual desire for bettering their already quite stable relations, and then the articles about Albanians who attack serbian children, serbian cemetaries and grave stones, trying to destroy the beautiful serbian monestaries and the old lovely people inhabiting them, and disputably sickest of all destroyed a decades old monument for people who fought the nazis out of the balkans in world war 2 when Albania capitulated and was busy helping hitler, and this all in reaction to Serbian government taking action on serbian government controlled territory?

Holy cow is there anything inside your head at all besides a big lump of tar?

Bugar from Skoplje

Is this why you yourself use the word Arnaut, because Bulgars are a Turkic people (directly related to the Turks) ?

Look at all these Balkan arm chair, keyboard warriors.

People in the West look at all of you like some Neanderthals. You behave like you just evolved from monkeys. Forget about politics, please shave your backs and stand up on your back legs people...

Unfortunately, the "victors" of the former Yugoslavia didn't learn from history. They ended up borrowing millions from the west and selling there country and their futures at the same time.

So Peggy who was that it converted from an Iranian muslim to orthodox,is it .US or YOU?

Let's see, what's part of Albanian history?

I will add on your albo history list 2 important record:
#1 albo General George Maniakes(1042yr)
#2 Turks word "Arnaut"
#1 is the year when albo see Balkan first time.
#2 Turks recognise them and say "A....t" or "people who don't com back".
In reality poor Albo is not eble to erase this part of his history.



(Albo Troll Wrangler, 21 January 2013 23:53)

"So Meho, who was it that converted to Islam? Us or you?
(Peggy, 21 January 2013 22:55) "

So what precisely's the problem with converting to Islam hundreds of years ago?

Peggy: your comments and alas those of Dacic betray the root cause of a lot of the problems in the Balkans today: you, and he, don't like muslims. You ask 'who was it that converted to Islam'? in the same way that you would ask a man if he has interfered with his children. Being a muslim is no crime or disgrace, it's a fact of life for a billion people(before you ask I'm a C of E Christian). If you have practical reasons for disliking Kosovo Albanians (or anyone else for that matter) then fill your boots, but to base your hatred on the fact that someone has had the temerity to stray from the 'true path' of orthodoxy is lame.

We always stood up and fought the nazis and fascism unlike the albanians that 100%sided with Hitler during ww2. Why are 90%of the comments on this news albanian when it has absolutely nothing to do with Kosovo?

I can't think of any Serbian battle with the Turks that gave the Turks the message that they should turn around and go home. Yes, all that happened is that many Serbs fought for the Turks and continued to do so after the battle of Kosovo Polje.

The ones that fought for the turks were once serbian children that were kidnapped from their parents that refused to obey the prima nocte law imposed in bosnia by the ottoman empire and refused to pay taxes to the local vezir. First learn something before you make a stupid comment.

And the reason why the serbs celebrate the battle of kosovo polje is that thousands of young, brave men had the guts to stand up against a superior power and fight for their families and their country even though the outcome of the battle was quite clear. That is something that you albanians will never ever understand because whenever a superior power conquered your territory the only thing you did was to turn your back and put your pants down to your ancles ready to be you know what.

Yeah Serbia's History of killing thousands of innocent croat, bosnian and albanian civilians... A history that Dacic was part of it too.
History of hiding war criminals for years...
Serbia and other balkan nations lost the war against turks 600 years ago, so how can you say that you defended Europe when you actually lost the war? How can you defend something when you loose the war? This is absolutely unbelievable.
I trully feel sorry for the great serb nation that it allowed itself to be ruled again by a person who has a Milosevic type mentality. Petar Petrovic Njegos, writer of "Gorski Vijenac"now thats a real crnogorac. Just like Radovan Karadzic by the way.

Of course we defended europe because we stopped the turks from moving on to the west and finally we drove them out after 600 years?Talking about warcrimes, did u forget that your fellow "montenegrins"ruined the city of Dubrovnik?Why dont u mention all the crimes committed by croats and bosniaks upon serbs?More than 30%of the total number of victims in the war were serbs, did u forget that?

"Is this why you yourself use the word Arnaut, because Bulgars are a Turkic people (directly related to the Turks)?"
@ (Nikolle, 22 January 2013 10:41)

Common Nikolle I don't invented this word "Arnaut" myself. Word "Arnaut" is very popular before 1912 Finally after WWI evrybody use modern name same us albo #1. Congratulation Albo #2 is 100 yr. old.

Daniel

its you are the alleged 'heavenly' people, take the first step. apologize to Croats & Bosnians for the horrid crimes of the 90's. claiming that Vukovar is Serbian and denying Srebrenica is not heavenly is it?

peggy - your comments are tiring...jasenovac...nazi gestures at tennis matches...you seem to be more interested in a "tit for tat" than you do about moving forward. we can go on for days, we wont solve those "problems" here on this site! i personally dont understand those clowns that make nazi gestures but at the same time they are irrelevant to me and a small portion of Croatia's population. you can say the same thing abot Serbs at soccer games and their well known hooligans. I dont like extremism from any side and to be honest...if you cant stop using Jasenovac to justify things that are part of today's discussions then you need help...something you wont get here in this site! I cant help you and I highly doubt anyone here can...maybe seek a psychiatrist...Dr Karadzic might be helpful for you!

Operation Storm is and forever will be part of history...once again, there are two sides to every story..."our side" seems to be internationally accepted..."your side" of the story is considered "sour grapes" and a result of your Serbia losing a war they started but couldnt finish! MOVE ON!

"pure" or "not pure"...whats the point? Croatia has a mix also...Austrians, Germans, Italians, Hungarians, Serbs....and so on...so what...again...you are talking about history and i think you need to let go and move forward!

Here's a great definition for "nation":

A nation's a group of people that shares the same lies about its history.

Bugar from Skoplje

no point in pretending otherwise, i have no idea what you're on about, i strongly suspect that neither do you.

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
(MikeC, 21 January 2013 23:15) MikeC finally seeing the lite hanging around me has done wonders for you.

Daniel

its you are the alleged 'heavenly' people, take the first step. apologize to Croats & Bosnians for the horrid crimes of the 90's. claiming that Vukovar is Serbian and denying Srebrenica is not heavenly is it?
(Nikolle, 22 January 2013 15:01)

As I stated earlier I will after they apologize for all the civilians they killed. We have waited more than 60yrs for the croats to apologize about Jasenovac.

JJ

I think the international community is so ashamed of their Kosovo creation that they are struggling to make sure the horrible news of what is going on there doesnt reach mainstream europe. They have unleashed pure evil. If I was Europe I would keep my mouth shut to about my creation.

Europe owes Serbia nothing.

Nikolle Vukovar not Serbian??

I suggest you to read this:
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/6811/antunradicnemahrvata.jpg

If you can't read Croatian i can translate a little:
A croatian writer/politician Antun radic wrote the following in his magazine DOM 1904 issue 19
"If you would say 20 years ago go a little further in to croatia for example Vinkovci!and you would tell those people you are croatian and that those people there are croatian--- you would be lucky if the whole world would laugh about you.
Because of that you would be easily beaten up"

then he continues it was not only the case with the nobles but with the (Sokci and Raci) Serbian tribes!!
anyway that article was about who are the croats and he proves that the nobles of Slavonia felt themselves better and to be better you were a croat while poor people kept their identity/ethnicity.

That proves that a Croat acknowledged that in those parts of Slavonia did not live Croats but were Serbian.

The writings of Croatian intellectuals have more value to many then your Garbage....

The only things Serbs are taught as children is to call Croats Ustase,
============================
Are we wrong about that?
You proudly displayed Nazi gestures not long ago at the Australia Open.
You flock to Thomson concerts and proudly sing Ustashe songs.
Now you complain about us calling you Ustashe?

You call us Chetniks all the time. Are you forgetting that?

Have you forgotten Jasenovac?
Have you forgotten Operation Storm where you killed many and ethnically cleansed Serbs from Krajina?

So who are you to complain about anything?
BTW, if you cared about Albanians and Bosnian Muslims you would've offered them safe haven in Croatia instead of just ushering them through to somewhere else. Tell me, how pure is Croatia and how pure is Serbia? The answer to that question will tell you who the real racists are.

Peggy: your comments and alas those of Dacic betray the root cause of a lot of the problems in the Balkans today: you, and he, don't like muslims. You ask 'who was it that converted to Islam'?
=====================================
My question was asked for a reason and not for hating Muslims.
A comment was made about Serbian shame in losing to Turks. I asked the question to highlight that Serbs had nothing to be ashamed of because they fought for their religion while some took the cowardly way and converted to stay safe.

In future, please don't try to distort what I say. You know that the question was my response to a specific statement made and not out of hatred.
If you pelple can't respond to my statement then don't but don't try to distort something I say in order to appear clever.

I think the international community is so ashamed of their Kosovo creation that they are struggling to make sure the horrible news of what is going on there doesnt reach mainstream europe.
(MikeC, 22 January 2013 22:28)

Yeah, but the West is not as technologically advanced as China to be able to prevent the masses from learning the truth. But I'm sure that if they ask, China would be glad to help with its expertise in this area...

Daniel

Be the bigger man, apologize to the Bosnians and Croats. Show them you are not on their level

"You proudly displayed Nazi gestures not long ago at the Australia Open"

Peggy,

you are looking in the mirror when you see these "croats" in Australia.

you said: "For the 100th time, please tell me why the Croatian Gov't. paid millions of dollars to US PR firms to influence the western media?"

PROVE IT! I am not surprised you dont admit anything....and for that reason I can see I am dealing with an uneducated little kid! why do you have soo much resentment and hatred njegos? why dont you leave the past behind you...does it bother you soo much that you feel the need to make up some created historical event that nobody has ever heard or believes? I'm actually scratching my head thinking why would you believe these things?

as per Novak...svaka mu cast...cestitam! I'm happy he's done well, he seems like a really good person and a good representative for Srbija unlike you!

20,000 Serbs dead? WHAT? I wont touch that one...you have some imagination that only you believe...and I could care less...ethnic cleansing was what your people did to Muslimane and Hrvati...and if you lost your lives attempting to do so that surely isnt my problem!

Hrvatska defended their own territory...simple as that! you can talk about Tito, Tudjman, Milosevic, Saddam, Al Qaeda...whoever you want...blame the world but in the end...you have yourselves to blame...we know it, the world knows it and you should just deal with it instead of trying to rewrite history!Croatia is going forward...hopefully Serbia as well...you are living in the past and thats sad to see...

zivjela....zivjela...zivjela croatiaaaaaaaa!!!!!

njegos - I am not asking for any explanations because i can tell you...we wont agree so the bext thing to do is 1 of two things...discuss respectfully or continue insulting...this would require you to self reflect...which as far as I have seen you dont have the ability to do that! I have seen many here exactly like you...you have that old balkan mentality...you can never be wrong!!!

your comment about your croatian and albanian friend...I call BS...I'd never be able to be a friend of someone that insults my family and our history...you cannot hide behind your so called "friend" screen....actions speak louder than words...you are a cetnik through and through!

Oh the PM is so stubborn, the international community doesn't like Serbia for many reasons which he's too proud to admit.

njegos - I "ran away"...Hrvati have never run we just conquer...remember that...remember "Oluja"?

you asked another off topic question "What happened to the 20,000 plus Serbs who lived in Mostar before the war"...do you really think I care? Do you think it matters to me where they went since they started the war?

"you said many of your relatives fought proudly for the Ustasha" - YUP...why should I be embarassed to admit my family member fought for our freedom? none did wrong...they fought for our freedom!

this is the best quote njegos - "After all, you were taugt by Ustasha relatives. Running away is in your blood." - WHO RAN? Milosevic was disgusred in you people...we defended with primitive weapons and held for months...what happened when we gained the upper hand...you scattered in less that 48 hours....funny how that works right? you have some memory!

for arguement sake...why do you bring up the past? what does it do for you...deflect what your kind have recently done? we cant change what happened in the 30's and 40's but your people repeated history in the 90's...I sad kukas! Kukavica...you should think about tomorrow...remember yesterday and try to improve your life, NOT constantly live in the past and attempt to give history lessons that only you Srbi believe! Idemo naprijed...if you cant then get help...nobody cares about your delusional history we have the truth on the world scene!

FYI - I responded to you on the other comment but they didnt post it!

Canadian Hrvat - For the 100th time, please tell me why the Croatian Gov't. paid millions of dollars to US PR firms to influence the western media? Did they have something to hide? Was their cause not as noble and honorable as you would have us believe? Or were they still trying to overcome the image that they created for themselves during WWII when they ran the most brutal concentration camp at Jasenovac and others dedicated to killing children? Ask your tata and djedo about that. I'd be interested in what they have to say...even though I can probably predict it pretty accurately.

ajme...so you first said several weeks back that Croatian PR firms made up the story about how you attacked Dubrovnik and Zadar and now you are saying those things didnt happen because Croatia got the "US congrssmen and western media outlets were deluged with press releases designed to 'create a public opinion."??? do you have any idea of what you are talking about here? one thing is to hire a company to create awareness and ask for support...another is to fabricate...nobody fabricated when you attacked Croatians in Croatia...nobody fabricated Skabrnje, Dubrovnik, Zadar, Vukovar...or anywhere else....we were smart enough to use diplomatic means and try to create attantion of what was happening....HOW ON EARTH DO YOU CONFUSE "to develop and carry out strategies and tactics for communication" with FABRICATING?

I am seriously baffled about your intention regarding the PR firm? If I understand you correctly you are saying Serbs didnt attack anyone and the footage of the war was edited to make it look like Serbs attacked and bombarded...but it didnt happen...they were all actually in their homes eating sarma and drinking sljivovica...and the war was self inflicted...made to look like they were Serbs and you took the fall for someone else's lies...is that what you are saying? if you are...dont respond to me...you have serious issues!

this is what the world saw...serbs bombarding Dubrovnik...the massacre of Vukovar...the non stop bombarding of Sarajevo...most Americans and Canadians had no idea what Vukovar was or Slavonski Brod or Zadar, Skabrnje and so on....nobody really cared either...

Croatia and Slovenia were peaceful...the rest of European cummunism was falling and they the Croatian and Slovenian delegations demanded a looser federation, while the Serbian delegation, headed by Miloševic opposed this!...(Velika Srbija...of course!)

I watched the tanks roll out of the barracks towards Slovenia in 1991...and the funny things was on tv Beograd was showing the same exact footage and telling their citizens those were enemy tanks going into Serb populated towns and villages...I saw this...I was sitting in Dubrava a suburb of Zagreb and 3 days later left for Germany...you want to talk about propaganda but you twist what may be a mere 0.00000001% of what really happened! nobody cares for the "cross on the grave was an orthodox cross and the church clearly a Serbian church"...but how will you explain the massacre in Skabrnje where not a single thing (human or animal) was left alive...it was burned to the ground...Vukovar was devastated...and you're gonna bring up a story of a cross when all the other facts are sitting right there...how can you divert and deflect FACT and look in another direction?

njegos - nobody needs a PR team for live footage on Vukovar, Dubrovnik and so on...

njegos - you said "Then please tell me why the Croatian Gov't. paid millions of dollars" - and I already answered that for you...were you looking for another answer? here is is again for you..."to develop and carry out strategies and tactics for communication"! all they had to do was allow the opportunity to see what was happening..."strategies and tactics for communication"...you guys did the rest!

why do you have soo much hatred? I'll tell you how much I hate Serbs...next week the local mesar is making a new batch of suhe kubasice and several other smoked meat products...he is making me a special batch of grah...especially for me (my mother passed away several years ago and nobody was as good a cook as she was)...they dont make grah for the public but guess what...he's making it for me...here's the kicker...HE'S SERBIAN...HE KNOWS I'M CROATIAN AND HE ABSOLUTELY RESPECTS ME AND LIKES ME VERY MUCH! I'm gonna bring him a bottle of homemade loza...we'll have a shot together I'll say hvala vam najljepse gospodin...give him a hug and he'll say ma nema problema prijatelju...

I am proud of my heritage...the Ustase in my family were good people...none did any wrongdoings to anyone...not all Cetniks were savages and not all Ustase were either...live in the present, you may find you'll enjoy life a whole lot more!

You said the reason for paying PR firms was..."to develop and carry out strategies and tactics for communication". So I guess those strategies included distorting the truth and outright lying. The PR firms knew that they could get away with blatant lies because they would never be held accountable. There was no fact checking and verification of the truth. As long as the money kept flowing, they kept irresponsibly sensationalizing the news. The PR firms weren't paid to report the truth, they were paid to create public opinion. And they did.

And for your information, I don't hate Croatians. I have a good friend who is Croatian and it might surprise you to know that I have an Albanian buddy also. We have never spoken about the wars. My Croatian friend's aunt & uncle own a bar and we drink slivo and eat cevapcici there occasionally. My entire family is from Montenegro and when I'm with my Croatian & Albanian friends we talk about our similarities and not our differences. I don't paint people with a broad brush. There are good & bad in all groups of people. I would ask that you don't paint all Serbs with a broad brush as the media has.

Hrvat - We've been talking in circles for some now, so this will be my last post on this topic. I will correct you on one more thing, however. You said that I accused your family of atrocities. I never did that. I did accuse the regime they fought for of atrocities because it has been proven and documented. Your relatives fought for a regime whose stated policy was to exterminate Serbs living in Croatia. Ante Pavlic along with many of his henchmen were named as war criminals. Few, if any, paid for their crimes.

You ask why I continually bring up the past. The reason is that to understand the current/recent conflict, one must understand the history of the region. And from a Serbian perspective, Croats never acknowledged the crimes they committed against Serbs during WWII, but instead brought back Ustasha symbols and named streets in Zagreb after Ustasha leaders whose goal it was to eliminate Serbs. Could you imagine Germans naming streets after Nazi criminals and waving flags with swastikas on them? The world would be in an uproar.

Reconciliation cannot occur without acknowledgement of past sins. That would be the foundation for better relations between Serbs & Croats, but as evidenced by our exchanges, I'm afraid that's a long way off. Dovidjenja.

Strange this Serbia obsession with history.

Serbia lost a fight 600 years ago, so now they deserve something from Europe?

Because WW2? really, Dacic??

It would be funny if it weren't just sad.
(Danilo, 21 January 2013 19:37)

Let me educate you a bit, because you are in great need of an education: The battle of Kosovo is where the Serbs, completely outnumbered by Turks, chose death instead of converting to islam. That is who we are, and that legacy lives with us today. The albanians and Bosnian muslims can not say the same now can they, for they converted. I am surprised your ancestors didn't convert Danilo, you seem like the type that would gladly convert for a few pennies even.
You're pathetic, and in the future, please don't insult us all by insinuating you have any blood ties to Serbia. You're an albanian at heart. And yes, that is an insult.
Cheers!!

Canadian Hrvat - You ran away from our last debate without anwering many of my questions. Now I find you over here arguing with Peggy and spewing your propagandist drivel again. I find it interesting that you now take offense to Serbs referring to Croats as Ustasha, yet in one of our earlier convesations, you said many of your relatives fought proudly for the Ustasha. You contradict yourself.

And before you ran away like a little girl, I asked you some questions that you failed to answer. Here they are again: What happened to the 20,000 plus Serbs who lived in Mostar before the war? And if the Croats were right in their cause, why did they spend millions on US PR firms to influence the western media?

I'm sure you'll run away before answering just like last time. That's to be expected. After all, you were taugt by Ustasha relatives. Running away is in your blood.

From Canadian Hrvat: Hrvati have never run we just conquer...remember that...remember "Oluja"?

HA, HA, HA. What have Croats ever conquered...by themselves?? Without NATO, you guys are nothing. But having someone else fight your battles is nothing new for Croatians. While you guys were the stable boys of the Austro-Hungarian Empire the Serbs were given land in the Krajina by your masters in return for their military service. If not for the Serbs, you and the rest of your brave ancestors would be bowing to the east and praying to Allah 5 times a day.

And a little closer to home for you, the Ustasha ran like the cowards that they were when they realized they were on the losing side in WWII. Many thousands of them ran to the Croat commie leader Tito and joined the Partizans to save their skin. Perhaps some of your relatives were among them.

And your comment that you don't care about the 20,000 Serbs who were ethnically cleansed by Croats from Mostar in their quest to create the ethnically pure state of Herceg Bosna was very predictable. But it is precisely why Serbs & Croats are a long way from normalizing relations. You say the Ustasha fought proudly for Croatia's freedom. But you say nothing about their stated goal of exterminating the Serbs. I guess many die hard Germans still think the Third Reich was a good thing also.

You are a piece of work. It must really burn you to know that Novak Djokovic won the Australian Open where many Ustasha settled after WWII. LOL

Canadian Hrvat - Over the course of our internet exchanges you have proven to be in over your head as you have dodged questions repeatedly, but for you to fabricate statements and attribute them to me is down right shameful. Your arguements have been weak at best, but please stop making things up. When have I ever stated that 20,000 Serbs from Mostar were killed by Croatians? They were driven from their homes by Croats and many, I am sure were killed, but I can't put a number on it because I have not seen it from a reliable source.

And asking me to 'prove' that the Croat gov't. paid US PR firms million of dollars to influence the western media is comical. Are you serious? Do you really think I'm making this up? There is so much reliable information out there on this subject, I don't know where to start. Read Diana Johnstone's piece @ www.sourcewatch.com entitled Ruder Finn's work for Croatia, sub-titled Murky History. She details how US congrssmen and western media outlets were deluged with press releases designed to 'create a public opinion.' Earlier, I referred you to Peter Brock's book, Media Cleansing. There he devotes an entire chapter on Croatia's & the Muslim's use of US PR firms.

I know you're intellectually challenged, but please do a little research and not rely only on your tata's & djedo's revisionst Ustasha propaganda.

You now have your assignment, happy reading!

Hrvat - I will type real slow and try not to use any big words so that this time you will understand, but I still have my doubts. The Croatian gov't. paid Ruder Finn, Hill & Knowlton and Waterman Associates millions to CREATE an image of the Serbs. Example: The Chicago Tribune ran a story with a picture of an old woman mourning her dead son at a freshly dug grave outside of a church. The caption read that her son was a Croat and was brutally killed and mutilated by separtist Serbs in Croatia. But the cross on the grave was an orthodox cross and the church clearly a Serbian church with its distinctive Byzintine architecture. But the average American would never know the distinction. This type of dishonest reporting was repeated thousands of times during the war. Years later when truthful books like Media Cleansing by award winning journalist, Peter Brock came out, it didn't matter. The damage was done and the western world had their bad guys. The PR firms knew that 30 second sound bites and pictures in papers resonated with the American public and they exploited that concept very deceitfully.

I never said that the Serbs were without blame, but neither were the Croats & Muslims. It was a brutal 3 way civil war. I am all in favor of prosecuting war criminals whatever their nationality. But it is just irresponsible of you to tell me that the Serbs were the only bad guys as the western media would have us believe. The truth is out there, but you're not interested in the truth.

From Canadian Hrvat: nobody needs a PR team for live footage on Vukovar, Dubrovnik and so on...

Then please tell me why the Croatian Gov't. paid millions of dollars to not 1 but 3 US PR firms? If as you imply, the Croats were such downtrodden victims, why did they need the help of PR firms to CREATE a public image? PLEASE ANSWER!

Here's some more handywork from the Croat & Muslim paid PR firms: At the end of 1992, it was widely reported that the Serbs had raped up to 50,000 Croat & Muslim women. When one does the math, this means that the Serbs would have had to rape 500 women a day! How then could they have committed all the other atrocities that they were accused of? There's only so many hours in a day. This is what your money bought - distortions of reality. The Serbs didn't lose the war on the ground, they lost it in the media.

Your denials don't surprise me, after all you were taught by Ustasha relatives who were part of the most barbaric and genocidal regime known to man. Even their Nazi partners were appalled by their savage brutality. Keep telling yourself they were freedom fighters to ease your conscious. What a joke....a sad joke.

njegos - first I will say this...you have always attacked me called me an Ustasa and accused my family of atrocities...you said i ran away from our conversation but I actually replied a few times and it wasnt posted for whatever reason when in fact there was nothing derogatory...you are accusatory and you enjoy the stance of pretending you are my educator! I have just as much pride as anyone does...I'm never going to cower to you...I have said several several times live for today not in the past but you seem to enjoy the rants of WWII and all your rehearsed and BS opinions which I could care less for...we will never agree...even with this PR thing...the PR team you talk about would have had nothing to report if none of it happened...if they embellished...everyone did BUT what was clear was who was the aggressor and just how much more damage they did!

Crnagora...FYI - two of my closest friends in Velez were Crno Gorci...1) Vukasin Petranovic...and his daughter is still my friend today...2) Dzevad Rastoder...and actually he was my roommate for a few weeks in '86...I consider Crnagorci good people...just like serbian people and makedonci and so on...we disagree on politics so dont impose your opinion and attempt to teach me what you think is truth...its just your version I and we have ours...we feel very wronged by you...btw...it was (I think if I am not wrong) crnagorci that pummeled Dubrovnik...it happened...its over...idemo naprijed!

From Canadian Hrvat: "...we wont agree so the bext thing to do is 1 of two things...discuss respectfully or continue insulting..." And then you go on to insult me. Very classy.

If you recall, our exchanges began with me responding to one of your many attacks, insults and general berating of Serbs. You try to rewrite history and when you are challenged and corrected, you suddenly don't want to talk about history anymore.

You claim that I insulted yor family and your country's history. Well, if you are referring to my comments about the murderous Ustasha regime that you claim your family members proudly fought for, then I am guilty as charged.

And as for you calling me a Chetnik, I'll take as a compliment. I have no problem whatsoever being associated with a group who saved more than 500 downed US airmen during WWII. President Truman awarded Draza Mihaijlovich with the Legion of Merit, the highest military award that a non-American can receive during war time.

So you can go on and believe in Ustasha war criminals like Ante Pavlic and Mile Budak and I'll line up on the right side of history and continue to stand behind the Chetniks. My conscience is clear, is yours?