Serbia’s Office for Kosovo Director Aleksandar Vulin has urged the international community to make it clear for Priština that threats of war are “too much“.
I got one word for you guys.. and that is Ylliria. don't ask us stupid questions about iliria, go read as I did. Albanians are direct descendents of the ilirans, kosova than called Dardania is an Illyrian reagon or tribe of Illyria. go read and find out how all the wars went on and how we came to these modern day names. see we still have illirian words, serbs DONT FYROM don't, slavs DONT, and thers so much proof that Albanians are illirians, one is the Arbresht that moved to Italy< theris illirian-albanian and so on. o yea and oviosly serbs aren't illirians, their language is close to Russian, they came from Russia into Balkans in around 5 century. what elese do serbians want? well nobody cares what they want,poworful democratic countries that have brains understand this, that's why they made kosova independent, and they still have more plans on favor of Albanians decendent of illirans ;)
@renato
Skopje was a Serbian capital, Skopje was a Bulgarian capital, Skopje was a Byzantine province capital!
Even Elbasan was not albanian!
The Turks established that city and the first inhabitants were people from Skopje/Ohrid/Bitola/Thessaloniki/Kastoria/Serres
Meaning: Serbs/Macedonians/Bulgarians/Greeks/Vlachs
Here skopje 1953:
122,143 people lived in Skopje, of whom 74,686 or 61.1% were Macedonian, 22,562 or 18.5% were Turks, 8,650 or 7.1% were Serbian, 7,829 or 6.4% were Roma and 3,166 or 2.6% were Albanian
Also this:
Uskub was a key player in the Ilinden Uprising of August 1903 when the native population of the region declared the emergence of the Krusevo Republic.
Anyway in the Ottoman empire Skopje was a Majority Muslim city!
But most Muslims were slavic (Srb/Bul/Mkd)
As in many villages in Macedonia many Muslim Macedonians and Turks started speaking Albanian and identify themselves as such now...
As i read once that since WW2 more then 80.000 Macedonian-Muslims were Albania!
(Sides story) same with the Serbs in the Metochia region of Kosovo!
but that does not mean Skopje or other towns were Albanians live were Albanian that was clearly not the case!
can you please come up with any link of a research done from a scholars that back your claims?
Noel Malcolm is a scholar and his work can't be put down.
but he is not the only one scholar .Like him there are many more scholars put albanians as indigenous people .I can put here hundreds academic work from all over the world that soupport that .
Can you bring only one link to back up your clams?
Bugar,One thing I know for sure there were no Bugars or Maqedon in city of Shkup until 1933.
(Renato, 16 January 2013 22:09)
Hang on a second, I have to pull you up here on this one. Are you honestly trying to tell us that there were no Macedonians or Bulgarians living in Skopje at all until 1933? I think you are stretching it a bit here.
illirian is not an albanian word, todays albanians have taken illyrian words since they were always only bystanders, the albanian language is made up by borrowed words from all other languages, so there is not much left of a socalled authentic "albanian language" anyway.
and those remarks about 3000 years... well, needless to say that you make yourself publicly a fool...
you may believe this crap, but, rest assured... modern history knows better who and what you are.
and, the last scientific attempt to prove that socalled illyrian theory was in the late 1980ies, made by archeologists from Chicago, ...and they came to the conclusion that this theory is just a nice theory at best.
there are no artifacts, no written documents mentioning you...there is nothing at all, and still you claim to be the descendants of the illyrians!
actually, you´re beating the record for the longest period of time that someone is believing in an illusion that has already been disproved.
but as long some smart guys like Noel Malcolm can make some bucks , at least some others will take profit of your dreams. =)
I really hope that every Albanian buys this kind of "real books", more easy money to Mr.Malcolm
Nori:Lying is not a quality..
(Dragan, 16 January 2013 14:41)
No Dragan, lying is absolutely not a quality by my measures either. But i dont really understand what it was i was lying about. I agree that today we albanians are making mistakes but those mistakes are put upon us because of the situation we find ourself in. As i said if Serbia would have recognized Kosovo from the beginning, all of us would be in a better situation today. I grew up in Kosovo so i am not lying when i say that you treated us like crap and threatened our very existence, i experienced that personally so i know what im talking about, i did not read that on B92. So did my father mother grandfather and so on. You are probably a decent human being and if you knew everything that was going in KS i think that you would have told your government that they should stop what they were doing. With Ibrahim Rugova we tried for decades the peaceful way but that only gave us more suffering. You gave us no other choice then to take to arms. Its not a lie when i tell you that during 98/99, 12000 thousand albanian civilians were murderd in KS, that over 1 million were expelled and that ALL of our homes and mosques and albanian catholic churches were burnt down by serb forces. As always you put us in a extremely difficult position, of course nationalism will derive from that, what do you expect? We all share to some extent responsibility, but some of us are more guilty then other and are the cause of the suffering.
Albanian sure names are a good indication of what kingdom you might derive from(although since its so long ago that principle has to some extent been washed of but there are still many sure names that refer to the Kingdoms)but none the less we are all the same namely albanians, you should be aware of the fact that this "tradition" of a people being fragmented into kingdom/clans is the very essence of all kind of races. Its only about 300 years ago that the Swedes finally got together under a single kingdom. This unification that has occurred with other races, did not have a chance to have a natural development with Albanian, and the answer to that is simple. Simply because balkan has essentially always found its self in war, ever since the greek, roman, slav and turkish empire and we albanians have found ourself right in the middle of it. Granted that we are a small people i often wonder how we were able to survive, but here we are still alive today. I do not ignore your serbian history so please do not ignore my history either. You must know that history is not picture clear, obviously many years have passed, and you must also know that these invasive empires probably had the intention of taking over so it was in their interest to wipe out as much of albanian traces as possible and this especially is something that you serbs have done very well, but there is still evidence left which no one can deny, and its me, i am an albanian
For one there is no question about that albanians belong to the area. We did not magically drop down from the sky in 1940 as many of you serbs claim. No historian with self respect would claim that, granted albanian history is fragmented, but they would also with 100% assurance tell you that albanians were born in balkan. Albanians are not and have never been a migrational people like the slavs for instants. You want evidence?, no problem, read a book, read about albanian language and its development, the answers are all there, i have personally read french, british among many other and albanian history about albanians and they all tell you the same thing mor or less. Since the beginning of albanians we have always been made up of small kingdoms, that is what you in current history call clans, and traces of that are still visible today.
Bugar,One thing I know for sure there were no Bugars or Maqedon in city of Shkup until 1933.And another thing in 1992 the so called Macedonia or FYROM did not know what shape or color was their own flag.Make up your mind are you Macedon,Bugar,FYROM,Serb or...? I am not going to go in details but Illirian is an Albanian word.And Mother Theresa and Skenderbeu (Gjon Kastioti) were Albanians.Read real books not propaganda.We'll come back sooner than you think for our Shkup and be ready for a trip to your previous place.
Let's see if Dacic has it too remove that Monument tomorrow can't wait!
Hope it wasn't a lie.
@Renato
Ok explain to me these 3000 years?
What you normally say it's Illirians this and that 500-200 BC then nothing for some time ......
and then Skenderbeg -.- with a huge gap of 1500 years and tell me what you know about the Illirians how did they get on the balkans?
Like I once said here on B92 in Macedonian you can find more then 20 National (epics)songs about Skenderbeg (Georgija Kastriot) and in Albanian NONE! I thing that explains what his origins were.
In the 19th C and before it was common for foreigners to identify Serbs as Illirians! Why would they do that?
Etruscans who moved from Turkey to Italy in 800-700 BC had to pass by the Balkans so even then there were Serbs!
Etruscans reffer to themselves as Rassena/Rasseni an alternative ethnic name for serbs is raci/rassi/rasseni
And I read some text in etruscan on one side and serbian on the other it resembles each other great! Plus the Etruscans reffer to themselves Slavs!
Don't forget Nino Belov/Nineveh/Ninus/Nimrod a Serbian Emperor born in Nis around 2500 BC!
Also look at the place names with SAR and RAS you can find them from India to North Africa and all the way up to Scandinavia!
What is slav again--> Glory Gloryious people
Celt also means Glory
And I know that Illirians/Gauls/Celts have the same origin
"Dragan,In Preshevo I am at least 3000 years before Serbia.You are a guest in my place.I will respect the rules of a country when a country respect the host otherwise the guest is out of my house."
(Renato, 16 January 2013 15:03)
Rento did you know anithing about Albo History in the past,not mitology.
Also you are gest in the Serbia house. If you wanted to retorn to your home,ask Turks and tell them here is ARNAUT.They will tell you rod to your home.
At End: Be happy, your home is on another place not with the Balkan mitology what you claim. Poor Albo is totaly confused and last.
"Albanian fighters of UÇPMB never targeted civilians or civilian infrastructure so they were considered as "combatants" falling under the rules of the Geneva Convention."
Diplomaticus, 16 January 2013 15:03)
Last wk. did you found any military Serb in cementery? Don't tell us "this infrastructure is cosidered as combants and must go down. Yes, you ruin them for what... war is over few year ago not last wk.
Jimbo,If you read Serbian History yes Romans and Greeks were there first but if you read European History Illyrians were there 2000 years before any one existed in the Balkans.I know one thing very well that the first Serb moved to Presheva 1958 and in Nish 1321.
Well,B92 did not post my comment twice,But I'll give another try,I never said we should never respect the rule of a country if a country respect of who you are which in this case Serbia did not and we will not of course.What do you think Albanians should have thrown flowers at this Serbian police and soldiers when they came to steal ,rape,burn,kill and deport the whole population like they tried in Croatia,Bosnia and Kosova ??? Or might be you should think why your Brothers from Montenegro,Macedonia,Bosnia,Croatia or Slovenia do not want to live with you ??? This Albanians died fighting against the same regime you your self arrested and sent him to Hague.Now how come this Albanians are Terrorist but the Serbian population is not,they demonstrated against the same Criminal,so The Albanians helped you Serbs become a free Nation of Criminals and should appritiated and declare them as a HEROS.
renato,
firstly might i say that im mightily impressed that you've managed to make it to 3000 years, and are able to recall everything that passed before your eyes.
however the romans and greeks were there before you. so, perhaps you should be asking athens or rome as guests in their house.
Diplomaticus, just move the monument out of the city center, to a courtyard of a mosque, and the problem is solved. The non-Albanian citizens in the Presevo Valley, as well as the Serbian citizens of Serbia consider the KLA terrorists, that is their perspective. As for the UCPMB "combatants" as you call them, they did attack civilians, it's all under the history of UCPMB on Wikipedia. The armed group took advantage of the demilitarized zone that was created by NATO after the bombing stopped, to do their "combating" southern Serbia.
Please explain, Renato, how is Presevo your home, and that Serbs are guests there? Are you saying that wherever Albanians live in the Balkans, it's their land? How many of you are there, anyway, why would you need all this land? If you are going by the "descendants of illyrian theory", well, that's never been 100% proven. But even if true, it does give Albanians the rights to all this territory. There are well established borders, and states in the Balkans, as well as everywhere in the world, and the laws of that country must be respected. I have a question, Renato, does North America belong to the American indians, or to the people that came later and settled it? Are Americans guests of the Indians? Do you see how foolish this all sounds?
If my memory serves me right I think it was Dadic who said "we will remove it at all costs" that sounds to me like the prime minister fired the first volley in this frenzy over bircks and stones. Remebering very recent history what serbs did to albanians they are right to mobilise.
Where is my Whole comment ? Dragan ,with all my due respect ,the terrorists in France came to France from another country (Continent) .None of the Police killed was from Preshevo.
Dragan,In Preshevo I am at least 3000 years before Serbia.You are a guest in my place.I will respect the rules of a country when a country respect the host otherwise the guest is out of my house.
Both sides are threatening each-other with violence and it is wrong! The war ended in 2000 with an agreement for democratization and equal rights as citizens of Serbia for the Albanian minority. What has happened since then? Militarization through the expropriation of Albanian owned land for the construction of the biggest military base in Serbia: "Jug." NO other economic opportunities or investments have been noticed. There is clear discrimination when it comes to the national budget.
The issue is not just the monument, but the nature of the conflict. The Serbs call the fallen as "terrorists" while the Albanians as "freedom fighters." This distinction occurs throughout the world. Its a matter of perspective. Yet even the majority of the Serbs agree that the Milosevic regime was evil and undemocratic to everyone. Albanian fighters of UÇPMB never targeted civilians or civilian infrastructure so they were considered as "combatants" falling under the rules of the Geneva Convention. Both this group and the UCK prior to it refused to consider carrying out attacks in Belgrade or other civilian targets. Anyone thinks that they couldn't?
It is not in Serb or Albanian tradition to not honor the dead. We can't blame the Albanian fighters or the Serb Police and Army in 2000 for fighting, but we can blame today's politicians who threaten violence at a time of economic crisis. This is not good for Serbia and the region because of the nasty impact it would have on the economy and FDI.
@Renato. According to Darwin's theory,well, hope you will not also take yourself for one of them. The point is that Albanians live in Serbia a sovereign country and like any other citizen are supposed to respect that country. Like i said , in my country which is France, terrorists would be already in jail and their monument crshed down. The rest is of no importance at all.
Belgrade did what it should have done (recognize Kosovo) when the war ended none of us would be in this situation.
Of course thats what u albos want but sadly for you it will never happen. Do u also think that US should recognize Texas, that Spain should recognize Baskia or that Berlin should be independent from Germany?
@ John, Nori :Lying is not a quality, although you might think it is.First of all the terrorist group UCPBM openly threatened Serbian authorities with war if the so called "monument" is touched or displaced. Now be honest and saywhere do those Albanians live. In Great Albania or in Serbia which is supposed to be also their country? The country they live in is not a place where you make laws but the place where you respect laws and order and all the rest. Obviously you prefer making laws then to respect them.But the question is why do you want to impose your laws to the other while you do not want to respect the same rule in the country you live. In USA, France, Germany and elsewhere the monument would be already crashed down and removed and those who raised it in prison. So do not pretend that the Serbian legal government is wrong.
The compromise is having an intact and independent Kosovo with a minority living freely and unhindered, thus albanians get what they deserve freedom under self rule and serbs get what albanians never got under serbian rule, also freedom to live in peace!
Albanians had every right during Milosevic, newspapers and tv on ther own language and even universitys. What are you talking about?Yes I can see the freedom to live in peace, thats why you burn churches and kps police detend and beat innocent youngsters for christmas. Not to mention that serbian children cant go to school and are beaten and harassed on a daily basis because of their nationality. Albanian version of freedom I guess.
Nori what are you talking about?Yes you tormented serbs and expelled hundreds of thousands of serbs from Kosovo, you burn churches and monesterys on a daily basis and desecrate serbian graves. Last example was yesterday and yet you expect us to allow you to put up a monument over your terrorists that attacked our police force?Are you out of your mind?Need I to remind you that Presevo is Serbia not albania?YOu should respect the country you live in. You are the ones trying to steal and divide serbian land like you have with Kosovo and now your trying with the Presevo valley in order to create greater Albania but fortunately the west will never allow it. How would you react to a monument of the serbian hero and peoples hero of Jugoslavija general Rankovic in pristina?It wouldnt last a second.
YOu just think that you can get away with anything without getting punished for it.
Secondly you must also agonoledge the pain and suffering you inflicted on us. I agree peace is won by compromise, but you should honestly ask yourself what would the appropriate compromise be, having in mind what you done to us (i know you truly think you are angles but please do something about that). And please dont get in to history, although there is no question about "who was here first" . You cannot ask the beaten one to give even more of himself! The compromise is having an intact and independent Kosovo with a minority living freely and unhindered, thus albanians get what they deserve freedom under self rule and serbs get what albanians never got under serbian rule, also freedom to live in peace! Thats the only compromise i am willing to make as an albanian, and if Thaci agrees on something other than that, then i would personally hand him to Belgrade and you are free to do what you want with him.
John, in that case the albanians started it since they were the ones putting up this monument honoring terrorists that killed serb policemen from the start. Any serbian action would only be a reciprocity to this horrible provocatio. Imagine a monument to Bin Laden in the Us or anywhere in europe and you will maybe understand how we feel about this monument.
(Daniel, 16 January 2013 12:59)
Daniel i agree with you Albanians are equal to terrorist because they for decades tormented Serbs in the whole territory of Serbia and killed thousand and expelled over one million of serbs etc etc. Daniel i swear to god i thought it was the other way around, thank you for enlightening me. And on top of all that hardship now serbs are erecting monuments to remember their sons who bravely fought the terrorist Albanians, but the albanians are seeing that monument as an terrorist act and will bring it down with force. Albanians now also want to divide your territory, giving huge chunks of land to albanians were they will practically be independent but the albanians will not recognize serbia as an independent country, wow these albanians are something else arent they?
Firstly. There are so many examples of made by man tragedy in this world both historic and current, are we the young generation meant to repeat the mistakes of our fathers? It seems to me that we are deliberately choosing that path, cursed to repeat mistakes!? At least thats what i gather from the commentators here. We live in times of information and one would think that truth and justice is easy to fall on, but at the same time occasionally it seems like there is no way to resolve our despytes. We are blaming you and you in turn blame us, but whos fault is it?, because surly one of us must bare the blame.? I agonoledge that today to some point serbs in Kosovo have a hard time, but i argue strongly that the albanian in question who is causing hardship has probably lost if not his hole at least a big part of his family in ways that its hard for you to understand, though that doesnt make it right, and i personally condemn it and would not allow it if it was in my power. But i also strongly argue that this polarization between albanians and serbs in Kosovo is caused by Belgrade. If Belgrade did what it should have done (recognize Kosovo) when the war ended none of us would be in this situation.
Albanian authorities said that they will respect the verdict of a Serbian (not an Albanian!) court, if expressed. I would not call that violent. Vulin ignores that and we know why. It does not fit to his "Black & White" drawing.
So, come with a verdict, Vulin, and prove your "peacefulness". And if not and in case you try to use force than it is YOU who started war. Not by words, but by means, which is real problem.
John, in that case the albanians started it since they were the ones putting up this monument honoring terrorists that killed serb policemen from the start. Any serbian action would only be a reciprocity to this horrible provocatio. Imagine a monument to Bin Laden in the Us or anywhere in europe and you will maybe understand how we feel about this monument.
Albanian authorities said that they will respect the verdict of a Serbian (not an Albanian!) court, if expressed. I would not call that violent. Vulin ignores that and we know why. It does not fit to his "Black & White" drawing.
So, come with a verdict, Vulin, and prove your "peacefulness". And if not and in case you try to use force than it is YOU who started war. Not by words, but by means, which is real problem.
(John, 16 January 2013 12:20)
Sorry, but do you have dirt of serbian graves in your eyes?
John, in that case the albanians started it since they were the ones putting up this monument honoring terrorists that killed serb policemen from the start. Any serbian action would only be a reciprocity to this horrible provocatio. Imagine a monument to Bin Laden in the Us or anywhere in europe and you will maybe understand how we feel about this monument.
Albanian authorities said that they will respect the verdict of a Serbian (not an Albanian!) court, if expressed. I would not call that violent. Vulin ignores that and we know why. It does not fit to his "Black & White" drawing.
So, come with a verdict, Vulin, and prove your "peacefulness". And if not and in case you try to use force than it is YOU who started war. Not by words, but by means, which is real problem.
@ John, Nori :Lying is not a quality, although you might think it is.First of all the terrorist group UCPBM openly threatened Serbian authorities with war if the so called "monument" is touched or displaced. Now be honest and saywhere do those Albanians live. In Great Albania or in Serbia which is supposed to be also their country? The country they live in is not a place where you make laws but the place where you respect laws and order and all the rest. Obviously you prefer making laws then to respect them.But the question is why do you want to impose your laws to the other while you do not want to respect the same rule in the country you live. In USA, France, Germany and elsewhere the monument would be already crashed down and removed and those who raised it in prison. So do not pretend that the Serbian legal government is wrong.
Nori what are you talking about?Yes you tormented serbs and expelled hundreds of thousands of serbs from Kosovo, you burn churches and monesterys on a daily basis and desecrate serbian graves. Last example was yesterday and yet you expect us to allow you to put up a monument over your terrorists that attacked our police force?Are you out of your mind?Need I to remind you that Presevo is Serbia not albania?YOu should respect the country you live in. You are the ones trying to steal and divide serbian land like you have with Kosovo and now your trying with the Presevo valley in order to create greater Albania but fortunately the west will never allow it. How would you react to a monument of the serbian hero and peoples hero of Jugoslavija general Rankovic in pristina?It wouldnt last a second.
YOu just think that you can get away with anything without getting punished for it.
@Renato. According to Darwin's theory,well, hope you will not also take yourself for one of them. The point is that Albanians live in Serbia a sovereign country and like any other citizen are supposed to respect that country. Like i said , in my country which is France, terrorists would be already in jail and their monument crshed down. The rest is of no importance at all.
Please explain, Renato, how is Presevo your home, and that Serbs are guests there? Are you saying that wherever Albanians live in the Balkans, it's their land? How many of you are there, anyway, why would you need all this land? If you are going by the "descendants of illyrian theory", well, that's never been 100% proven. But even if true, it does give Albanians the rights to all this territory. There are well established borders, and states in the Balkans, as well as everywhere in the world, and the laws of that country must be respected. I have a question, Renato, does North America belong to the American indians, or to the people that came later and settled it? Are Americans guests of the Indians? Do you see how foolish this all sounds?
Albanian authorities said that they will respect the verdict of a Serbian (not an Albanian!) court, if expressed. I would not call that violent. Vulin ignores that and we know why. It does not fit to his "Black & White" drawing.
So, come with a verdict, Vulin, and prove your "peacefulness". And if not and in case you try to use force than it is YOU who started war. Not by words, but by means, which is real problem.
(John, 16 January 2013 12:20)
Sorry, but do you have dirt of serbian graves in your eyes?
Firstly. There are so many examples of made by man tragedy in this world both historic and current, are we the young generation meant to repeat the mistakes of our fathers? It seems to me that we are deliberately choosing that path, cursed to repeat mistakes!? At least thats what i gather from the commentators here. We live in times of information and one would think that truth and justice is easy to fall on, but at the same time occasionally it seems like there is no way to resolve our despytes. We are blaming you and you in turn blame us, but whos fault is it?, because surly one of us must bare the blame.? I agonoledge that today to some point serbs in Kosovo have a hard time, but i argue strongly that the albanian in question who is causing hardship has probably lost if not his hole at least a big part of his family in ways that its hard for you to understand, though that doesnt make it right, and i personally condemn it and would not allow it if it was in my power. But i also strongly argue that this polarization between albanians and serbs in Kosovo is caused by Belgrade. If Belgrade did what it should have done (recognize Kosovo) when the war ended none of us would be in this situation.
John, in that case the albanians started it since they were the ones putting up this monument honoring terrorists that killed serb policemen from the start. Any serbian action would only be a reciprocity to this horrible provocatio. Imagine a monument to Bin Laden in the Us or anywhere in europe and you will maybe understand how we feel about this monument.
(Daniel, 16 January 2013 12:59)
Daniel i agree with you Albanians are equal to terrorist because they for decades tormented Serbs in the whole territory of Serbia and killed thousand and expelled over one million of serbs etc etc. Daniel i swear to god i thought it was the other way around, thank you for enlightening me. And on top of all that hardship now serbs are erecting monuments to remember their sons who bravely fought the terrorist Albanians, but the albanians are seeing that monument as an terrorist act and will bring it down with force. Albanians now also want to divide your territory, giving huge chunks of land to albanians were they will practically be independent but the albanians will not recognize serbia as an independent country, wow these albanians are something else arent they?
Where is my Whole comment ? Dragan ,with all my due respect ,the terrorists in France came to France from another country (Continent) .None of the Police killed was from Preshevo.
"Dragan,In Preshevo I am at least 3000 years before Serbia.You are a guest in my place.I will respect the rules of a country when a country respect the host otherwise the guest is out of my house."
(Renato, 16 January 2013 15:03)
Rento did you know anithing about Albo History in the past,not mitology.
Also you are gest in the Serbia house. If you wanted to retorn to your home,ask Turks and tell them here is ARNAUT.They will tell you rod to your home.
At End: Be happy, your home is on another place not with the Balkan mitology what you claim. Poor Albo is totaly confused and last.
Secondly you must also agonoledge the pain and suffering you inflicted on us. I agree peace is won by compromise, but you should honestly ask yourself what would the appropriate compromise be, having in mind what you done to us (i know you truly think you are angles but please do something about that). And please dont get in to history, although there is no question about "who was here first" . You cannot ask the beaten one to give even more of himself! The compromise is having an intact and independent Kosovo with a minority living freely and unhindered, thus albanians get what they deserve freedom under self rule and serbs get what albanians never got under serbian rule, also freedom to live in peace! Thats the only compromise i am willing to make as an albanian, and if Thaci agrees on something other than that, then i would personally hand him to Belgrade and you are free to do what you want with him.
The compromise is having an intact and independent Kosovo with a minority living freely and unhindered, thus albanians get what they deserve freedom under self rule and serbs get what albanians never got under serbian rule, also freedom to live in peace!
Albanians had every right during Milosevic, newspapers and tv on ther own language and even universitys. What are you talking about?Yes I can see the freedom to live in peace, thats why you burn churches and kps police detend and beat innocent youngsters for christmas. Not to mention that serbian children cant go to school and are beaten and harassed on a daily basis because of their nationality. Albanian version of freedom I guess.
Dragan,In Preshevo I am at least 3000 years before Serbia.You are a guest in my place.I will respect the rules of a country when a country respect the host otherwise the guest is out of my house.
renato,
firstly might i say that im mightily impressed that you've managed to make it to 3000 years, and are able to recall everything that passed before your eyes.
however the romans and greeks were there before you. so, perhaps you should be asking athens or rome as guests in their house.
Both sides are threatening each-other with violence and it is wrong! The war ended in 2000 with an agreement for democratization and equal rights as citizens of Serbia for the Albanian minority. What has happened since then? Militarization through the expropriation of Albanian owned land for the construction of the biggest military base in Serbia: "Jug." NO other economic opportunities or investments have been noticed. There is clear discrimination when it comes to the national budget.
The issue is not just the monument, but the nature of the conflict. The Serbs call the fallen as "terrorists" while the Albanians as "freedom fighters." This distinction occurs throughout the world. Its a matter of perspective. Yet even the majority of the Serbs agree that the Milosevic regime was evil and undemocratic to everyone. Albanian fighters of UÇPMB never targeted civilians or civilian infrastructure so they were considered as "combatants" falling under the rules of the Geneva Convention. Both this group and the UCK prior to it refused to consider carrying out attacks in Belgrade or other civilian targets. Anyone thinks that they couldn't?
It is not in Serb or Albanian tradition to not honor the dead. We can't blame the Albanian fighters or the Serb Police and Army in 2000 for fighting, but we can blame today's politicians who threaten violence at a time of economic crisis. This is not good for Serbia and the region because of the nasty impact it would have on the economy and FDI.
Diplomaticus, just move the monument out of the city center, to a courtyard of a mosque, and the problem is solved. The non-Albanian citizens in the Presevo Valley, as well as the Serbian citizens of Serbia consider the KLA terrorists, that is their perspective. As for the UCPMB "combatants" as you call them, they did attack civilians, it's all under the history of UCPMB on Wikipedia. The armed group took advantage of the demilitarized zone that was created by NATO after the bombing stopped, to do their "combating" southern Serbia.
Belgrade did what it should have done (recognize Kosovo) when the war ended none of us would be in this situation.
Of course thats what u albos want but sadly for you it will never happen. Do u also think that US should recognize Texas, that Spain should recognize Baskia or that Berlin should be independent from Germany?
If my memory serves me right I think it was Dadic who said "we will remove it at all costs" that sounds to me like the prime minister fired the first volley in this frenzy over bircks and stones. Remebering very recent history what serbs did to albanians they are right to mobilise.
Well,B92 did not post my comment twice,But I'll give another try,I never said we should never respect the rule of a country if a country respect of who you are which in this case Serbia did not and we will not of course.What do you think Albanians should have thrown flowers at this Serbian police and soldiers when they came to steal ,rape,burn,kill and deport the whole population like they tried in Croatia,Bosnia and Kosova ??? Or might be you should think why your Brothers from Montenegro,Macedonia,Bosnia,Croatia or Slovenia do not want to live with you ??? This Albanians died fighting against the same regime you your self arrested and sent him to Hague.Now how come this Albanians are Terrorist but the Serbian population is not,they demonstrated against the same Criminal,so The Albanians helped you Serbs become a free Nation of Criminals and should appritiated and declare them as a HEROS.
"Albanian fighters of UÇPMB never targeted civilians or civilian infrastructure so they were considered as "combatants" falling under the rules of the Geneva Convention."
Diplomaticus, 16 January 2013 15:03)
Last wk. did you found any military Serb in cementery? Don't tell us "this infrastructure is cosidered as combants and must go down. Yes, you ruin them for what... war is over few year ago not last wk.
illirian is not an albanian word, todays albanians have taken illyrian words since they were always only bystanders, the albanian language is made up by borrowed words from all other languages, so there is not much left of a socalled authentic "albanian language" anyway.
and those remarks about 3000 years... well, needless to say that you make yourself publicly a fool...
you may believe this crap, but, rest assured... modern history knows better who and what you are.
and, the last scientific attempt to prove that socalled illyrian theory was in the late 1980ies, made by archeologists from Chicago, ...and they came to the conclusion that this theory is just a nice theory at best.
there are no artifacts, no written documents mentioning you...there is nothing at all, and still you claim to be the descendants of the illyrians!
actually, you´re beating the record for the longest period of time that someone is believing in an illusion that has already been disproved.
but as long some smart guys like Noel Malcolm can make some bucks , at least some others will take profit of your dreams. =)
I really hope that every Albanian buys this kind of "real books", more easy money to Mr.Malcolm
Bugar,One thing I know for sure there were no Bugars or Maqedon in city of Shkup until 1933.
(Renato, 16 January 2013 22:09)
Hang on a second, I have to pull you up here on this one. Are you honestly trying to tell us that there were no Macedonians or Bulgarians living in Skopje at all until 1933? I think you are stretching it a bit here.
Let's see if Dacic has it too remove that Monument tomorrow can't wait!
Hope it wasn't a lie.
@Renato
Ok explain to me these 3000 years?
What you normally say it's Illirians this and that 500-200 BC then nothing for some time ......
and then Skenderbeg -.- with a huge gap of 1500 years and tell me what you know about the Illirians how did they get on the balkans?
Like I once said here on B92 in Macedonian you can find more then 20 National (epics)songs about Skenderbeg (Georgija Kastriot) and in Albanian NONE! I thing that explains what his origins were.
In the 19th C and before it was common for foreigners to identify Serbs as Illirians! Why would they do that?
Etruscans who moved from Turkey to Italy in 800-700 BC had to pass by the Balkans so even then there were Serbs!
Etruscans reffer to themselves as Rassena/Rasseni an alternative ethnic name for serbs is raci/rassi/rasseni
And I read some text in etruscan on one side and serbian on the other it resembles each other great! Plus the Etruscans reffer to themselves Slavs!
Don't forget Nino Belov/Nineveh/Ninus/Nimrod a Serbian Emperor born in Nis around 2500 BC!
Also look at the place names with SAR and RAS you can find them from India to North Africa and all the way up to Scandinavia!
What is slav again--> Glory Gloryious people
Celt also means Glory
And I know that Illirians/Gauls/Celts have the same origin
Nori:Lying is not a quality..
(Dragan, 16 January 2013 14:41)
No Dragan, lying is absolutely not a quality by my measures either. But i dont really understand what it was i was lying about. I agree that today we albanians are making mistakes but those mistakes are put upon us because of the situation we find ourself in. As i said if Serbia would have recognized Kosovo from the beginning, all of us would be in a better situation today. I grew up in Kosovo so i am not lying when i say that you treated us like crap and threatened our very existence, i experienced that personally so i know what im talking about, i did not read that on B92. So did my father mother grandfather and so on. You are probably a decent human being and if you knew everything that was going in KS i think that you would have told your government that they should stop what they were doing. With Ibrahim Rugova we tried for decades the peaceful way but that only gave us more suffering. You gave us no other choice then to take to arms. Its not a lie when i tell you that during 98/99, 12000 thousand albanian civilians were murderd in KS, that over 1 million were expelled and that ALL of our homes and mosques and albanian catholic churches were burnt down by serb forces. As always you put us in a extremely difficult position, of course nationalism will derive from that, what do you expect? We all share to some extent responsibility, but some of us are more guilty then other and are the cause of the suffering.
Jimbo,If you read Serbian History yes Romans and Greeks were there first but if you read European History Illyrians were there 2000 years before any one existed in the Balkans.I know one thing very well that the first Serb moved to Presheva 1958 and in Nish 1321.
Bugar,One thing I know for sure there were no Bugars or Maqedon in city of Shkup until 1933.And another thing in 1992 the so called Macedonia or FYROM did not know what shape or color was their own flag.Make up your mind are you Macedon,Bugar,FYROM,Serb or...? I am not going to go in details but Illirian is an Albanian word.And Mother Theresa and Skenderbeu (Gjon Kastioti) were Albanians.Read real books not propaganda.We'll come back sooner than you think for our Shkup and be ready for a trip to your previous place.
can you please come up with any link of a research done from a scholars that back your claims?
Noel Malcolm is a scholar and his work can't be put down.
but he is not the only one scholar .Like him there are many more scholars put albanians as indigenous people .I can put here hundreds academic work from all over the world that soupport that .
Can you bring only one link to back up your clams?
For one there is no question about that albanians belong to the area. We did not magically drop down from the sky in 1940 as many of you serbs claim. No historian with self respect would claim that, granted albanian history is fragmented, but they would also with 100% assurance tell you that albanians were born in balkan. Albanians are not and have never been a migrational people like the slavs for instants. You want evidence?, no problem, read a book, read about albanian language and its development, the answers are all there, i have personally read french, british among many other and albanian history about albanians and they all tell you the same thing mor or less. Since the beginning of albanians we have always been made up of small kingdoms, that is what you in current history call clans, and traces of that are still visible today.
Albanian sure names are a good indication of what kingdom you might derive from(although since its so long ago that principle has to some extent been washed of but there are still many sure names that refer to the Kingdoms)but none the less we are all the same namely albanians, you should be aware of the fact that this "tradition" of a people being fragmented into kingdom/clans is the very essence of all kind of races. Its only about 300 years ago that the Swedes finally got together under a single kingdom. This unification that has occurred with other races, did not have a chance to have a natural development with Albanian, and the answer to that is simple. Simply because balkan has essentially always found its self in war, ever since the greek, roman, slav and turkish empire and we albanians have found ourself right in the middle of it. Granted that we are a small people i often wonder how we were able to survive, but here we are still alive today. I do not ignore your serbian history so please do not ignore my history either. You must know that history is not picture clear, obviously many years have passed, and you must also know that these invasive empires probably had the intention of taking over so it was in their interest to wipe out as much of albanian traces as possible and this especially is something that you serbs have done very well, but there is still evidence left which no one can deny, and its me, i am an albanian
@renato
Skopje was a Serbian capital, Skopje was a Bulgarian capital, Skopje was a Byzantine province capital!
Even Elbasan was not albanian!
The Turks established that city and the first inhabitants were people from Skopje/Ohrid/Bitola/Thessaloniki/Kastoria/Serres
Meaning: Serbs/Macedonians/Bulgarians/Greeks/Vlachs
Here skopje 1953:
122,143 people lived in Skopje, of whom 74,686 or 61.1% were Macedonian, 22,562 or 18.5% were Turks, 8,650 or 7.1% were Serbian, 7,829 or 6.4% were Roma and 3,166 or 2.6% were Albanian
Also this:
Uskub was a key player in the Ilinden Uprising of August 1903 when the native population of the region declared the emergence of the Krusevo Republic.
Anyway in the Ottoman empire Skopje was a Majority Muslim city!
But most Muslims were slavic (Srb/Bul/Mkd)
As in many villages in Macedonia many Muslim Macedonians and Turks started speaking Albanian and identify themselves as such now...
As i read once that since WW2 more then 80.000 Macedonian-Muslims were Albania!
(Sides story) same with the Serbs in the Metochia region of Kosovo!
but that does not mean Skopje or other towns were Albanians live were Albanian that was clearly not the case!
I got one word for you guys.. and that is Ylliria. don't ask us stupid questions about iliria, go read as I did. Albanians are direct descendents of the ilirans, kosova than called Dardania is an Illyrian reagon or tribe of Illyria. go read and find out how all the wars went on and how we came to these modern day names. see we still have illirian words, serbs DONT FYROM don't, slavs DONT, and thers so much proof that Albanians are illirians, one is the Arbresht that moved to Italy< theris illirian-albanian and so on. o yea and oviosly serbs aren't illirians, their language is close to Russian, they came from Russia into Balkans in around 5 century. what elese do serbians want? well nobody cares what they want,poworful democratic countries that have brains understand this, that's why they made kosova independent, and they still have more plans on favor of Albanians decendent of illirans ;)
John, in that case the albanians started it since they were the ones putting up this monument honoring terrorists that killed serb policemen from the start. Any serbian action would only be a reciprocity to this horrible provocatio. Imagine a monument to Bin Laden in the Us or anywhere in europe and you will maybe understand how we feel about this monument.
(Daniel, 16 January 2013 12:59)
Daniel i agree with you Albanians are equal to terrorist because they for decades tormented Serbs in the whole territory of Serbia and killed thousand and expelled over one million of serbs etc etc. Daniel i swear to god i thought it was the other way around, thank you for enlightening me. And on top of all that hardship now serbs are erecting monuments to remember their sons who bravely fought the terrorist Albanians, but the albanians are seeing that monument as an terrorist act and will bring it down with force. Albanians now also want to divide your territory, giving huge chunks of land to albanians were they will practically be independent but the albanians will not recognize serbia as an independent country, wow these albanians are something else arent they?
Albanian authorities said that they will respect the verdict of a Serbian (not an Albanian!) court, if expressed. I would not call that violent. Vulin ignores that and we know why. It does not fit to his "Black & White" drawing.
So, come with a verdict, Vulin, and prove your "peacefulness". And if not and in case you try to use force than it is YOU who started war. Not by words, but by means, which is real problem.
Firstly. There are so many examples of made by man tragedy in this world both historic and current, are we the young generation meant to repeat the mistakes of our fathers? It seems to me that we are deliberately choosing that path, cursed to repeat mistakes!? At least thats what i gather from the commentators here. We live in times of information and one would think that truth and justice is easy to fall on, but at the same time occasionally it seems like there is no way to resolve our despytes. We are blaming you and you in turn blame us, but whos fault is it?, because surly one of us must bare the blame.? I agonoledge that today to some point serbs in Kosovo have a hard time, but i argue strongly that the albanian in question who is causing hardship has probably lost if not his hole at least a big part of his family in ways that its hard for you to understand, though that doesnt make it right, and i personally condemn it and would not allow it if it was in my power. But i also strongly argue that this polarization between albanians and serbs in Kosovo is caused by Belgrade. If Belgrade did what it should have done (recognize Kosovo) when the war ended none of us would be in this situation.
The compromise is having an intact and independent Kosovo with a minority living freely and unhindered, thus albanians get what they deserve freedom under self rule and serbs get what albanians never got under serbian rule, also freedom to live in peace!
Albanians had every right during Milosevic, newspapers and tv on ther own language and even universitys. What are you talking about?Yes I can see the freedom to live in peace, thats why you burn churches and kps police detend and beat innocent youngsters for christmas. Not to mention that serbian children cant go to school and are beaten and harassed on a daily basis because of their nationality. Albanian version of freedom I guess.
Dragan,In Preshevo I am at least 3000 years before Serbia.You are a guest in my place.I will respect the rules of a country when a country respect the host otherwise the guest is out of my house.
Secondly you must also agonoledge the pain and suffering you inflicted on us. I agree peace is won by compromise, but you should honestly ask yourself what would the appropriate compromise be, having in mind what you done to us (i know you truly think you are angles but please do something about that). And please dont get in to history, although there is no question about "who was here first" . You cannot ask the beaten one to give even more of himself! The compromise is having an intact and independent Kosovo with a minority living freely and unhindered, thus albanians get what they deserve freedom under self rule and serbs get what albanians never got under serbian rule, also freedom to live in peace! Thats the only compromise i am willing to make as an albanian, and if Thaci agrees on something other than that, then i would personally hand him to Belgrade and you are free to do what you want with him.
John, in that case the albanians started it since they were the ones putting up this monument honoring terrorists that killed serb policemen from the start. Any serbian action would only be a reciprocity to this horrible provocatio. Imagine a monument to Bin Laden in the Us or anywhere in europe and you will maybe understand how we feel about this monument.
Albanian authorities said that they will respect the verdict of a Serbian (not an Albanian!) court, if expressed. I would not call that violent. Vulin ignores that and we know why. It does not fit to his "Black & White" drawing.
So, come with a verdict, Vulin, and prove your "peacefulness". And if not and in case you try to use force than it is YOU who started war. Not by words, but by means, which is real problem.
(John, 16 January 2013 12:20)
Sorry, but do you have dirt of serbian graves in your eyes?
Please explain, Renato, how is Presevo your home, and that Serbs are guests there? Are you saying that wherever Albanians live in the Balkans, it's their land? How many of you are there, anyway, why would you need all this land? If you are going by the "descendants of illyrian theory", well, that's never been 100% proven. But even if true, it does give Albanians the rights to all this territory. There are well established borders, and states in the Balkans, as well as everywhere in the world, and the laws of that country must be respected. I have a question, Renato, does North America belong to the American indians, or to the people that came later and settled it? Are Americans guests of the Indians? Do you see how foolish this all sounds?
Belgrade did what it should have done (recognize Kosovo) when the war ended none of us would be in this situation.
Of course thats what u albos want but sadly for you it will never happen. Do u also think that US should recognize Texas, that Spain should recognize Baskia or that Berlin should be independent from Germany?
Nori what are you talking about?Yes you tormented serbs and expelled hundreds of thousands of serbs from Kosovo, you burn churches and monesterys on a daily basis and desecrate serbian graves. Last example was yesterday and yet you expect us to allow you to put up a monument over your terrorists that attacked our police force?Are you out of your mind?Need I to remind you that Presevo is Serbia not albania?YOu should respect the country you live in. You are the ones trying to steal and divide serbian land like you have with Kosovo and now your trying with the Presevo valley in order to create greater Albania but fortunately the west will never allow it. How would you react to a monument of the serbian hero and peoples hero of Jugoslavija general Rankovic in pristina?It wouldnt last a second.
YOu just think that you can get away with anything without getting punished for it.
@Renato. According to Darwin's theory,well, hope you will not also take yourself for one of them. The point is that Albanians live in Serbia a sovereign country and like any other citizen are supposed to respect that country. Like i said , in my country which is France, terrorists would be already in jail and their monument crshed down. The rest is of no importance at all.
Where is my Whole comment ? Dragan ,with all my due respect ,the terrorists in France came to France from another country (Continent) .None of the Police killed was from Preshevo.
If my memory serves me right I think it was Dadic who said "we will remove it at all costs" that sounds to me like the prime minister fired the first volley in this frenzy over bircks and stones. Remebering very recent history what serbs did to albanians they are right to mobilise.
renato,
firstly might i say that im mightily impressed that you've managed to make it to 3000 years, and are able to recall everything that passed before your eyes.
however the romans and greeks were there before you. so, perhaps you should be asking athens or rome as guests in their house.
Jimbo,If you read Serbian History yes Romans and Greeks were there first but if you read European History Illyrians were there 2000 years before any one existed in the Balkans.I know one thing very well that the first Serb moved to Presheva 1958 and in Nish 1321.
@ John, Nori :Lying is not a quality, although you might think it is.First of all the terrorist group UCPBM openly threatened Serbian authorities with war if the so called "monument" is touched or displaced. Now be honest and saywhere do those Albanians live. In Great Albania or in Serbia which is supposed to be also their country? The country they live in is not a place where you make laws but the place where you respect laws and order and all the rest. Obviously you prefer making laws then to respect them.But the question is why do you want to impose your laws to the other while you do not want to respect the same rule in the country you live. In USA, France, Germany and elsewhere the monument would be already crashed down and removed and those who raised it in prison. So do not pretend that the Serbian legal government is wrong.
Both sides are threatening each-other with violence and it is wrong! The war ended in 2000 with an agreement for democratization and equal rights as citizens of Serbia for the Albanian minority. What has happened since then? Militarization through the expropriation of Albanian owned land for the construction of the biggest military base in Serbia: "Jug." NO other economic opportunities or investments have been noticed. There is clear discrimination when it comes to the national budget.
The issue is not just the monument, but the nature of the conflict. The Serbs call the fallen as "terrorists" while the Albanians as "freedom fighters." This distinction occurs throughout the world. Its a matter of perspective. Yet even the majority of the Serbs agree that the Milosevic regime was evil and undemocratic to everyone. Albanian fighters of UÇPMB never targeted civilians or civilian infrastructure so they were considered as "combatants" falling under the rules of the Geneva Convention. Both this group and the UCK prior to it refused to consider carrying out attacks in Belgrade or other civilian targets. Anyone thinks that they couldn't?
It is not in Serb or Albanian tradition to not honor the dead. We can't blame the Albanian fighters or the Serb Police and Army in 2000 for fighting, but we can blame today's politicians who threaten violence at a time of economic crisis. This is not good for Serbia and the region because of the nasty impact it would have on the economy and FDI.
Diplomaticus, just move the monument out of the city center, to a courtyard of a mosque, and the problem is solved. The non-Albanian citizens in the Presevo Valley, as well as the Serbian citizens of Serbia consider the KLA terrorists, that is their perspective. As for the UCPMB "combatants" as you call them, they did attack civilians, it's all under the history of UCPMB on Wikipedia. The armed group took advantage of the demilitarized zone that was created by NATO after the bombing stopped, to do their "combating" southern Serbia.
Well,B92 did not post my comment twice,But I'll give another try,I never said we should never respect the rule of a country if a country respect of who you are which in this case Serbia did not and we will not of course.What do you think Albanians should have thrown flowers at this Serbian police and soldiers when they came to steal ,rape,burn,kill and deport the whole population like they tried in Croatia,Bosnia and Kosova ??? Or might be you should think why your Brothers from Montenegro,Macedonia,Bosnia,Croatia or Slovenia do not want to live with you ??? This Albanians died fighting against the same regime you your self arrested and sent him to Hague.Now how come this Albanians are Terrorist but the Serbian population is not,they demonstrated against the same Criminal,so The Albanians helped you Serbs become a free Nation of Criminals and should appritiated and declare them as a HEROS.
"Dragan,In Preshevo I am at least 3000 years before Serbia.You are a guest in my place.I will respect the rules of a country when a country respect the host otherwise the guest is out of my house."
(Renato, 16 January 2013 15:03)
Rento did you know anithing about Albo History in the past,not mitology.
Also you are gest in the Serbia house. If you wanted to retorn to your home,ask Turks and tell them here is ARNAUT.They will tell you rod to your home.
At End: Be happy, your home is on another place not with the Balkan mitology what you claim. Poor Albo is totaly confused and last.
Bugar,One thing I know for sure there were no Bugars or Maqedon in city of Shkup until 1933.And another thing in 1992 the so called Macedonia or FYROM did not know what shape or color was their own flag.Make up your mind are you Macedon,Bugar,FYROM,Serb or...? I am not going to go in details but Illirian is an Albanian word.And Mother Theresa and Skenderbeu (Gjon Kastioti) were Albanians.Read real books not propaganda.We'll come back sooner than you think for our Shkup and be ready for a trip to your previous place.
"Albanian fighters of UÇPMB never targeted civilians or civilian infrastructure so they were considered as "combatants" falling under the rules of the Geneva Convention."
Diplomaticus, 16 January 2013 15:03)
Last wk. did you found any military Serb in cementery? Don't tell us "this infrastructure is cosidered as combants and must go down. Yes, you ruin them for what... war is over few year ago not last wk.
Let's see if Dacic has it too remove that Monument tomorrow can't wait!
Hope it wasn't a lie.
@Renato
Ok explain to me these 3000 years?
What you normally say it's Illirians this and that 500-200 BC then nothing for some time ......
and then Skenderbeg -.- with a huge gap of 1500 years and tell me what you know about the Illirians how did they get on the balkans?
Like I once said here on B92 in Macedonian you can find more then 20 National (epics)songs about Skenderbeg (Georgija Kastriot) and in Albanian NONE! I thing that explains what his origins were.
In the 19th C and before it was common for foreigners to identify Serbs as Illirians! Why would they do that?
Etruscans who moved from Turkey to Italy in 800-700 BC had to pass by the Balkans so even then there were Serbs!
Etruscans reffer to themselves as Rassena/Rasseni an alternative ethnic name for serbs is raci/rassi/rasseni
And I read some text in etruscan on one side and serbian on the other it resembles each other great! Plus the Etruscans reffer to themselves Slavs!
Don't forget Nino Belov/Nineveh/Ninus/Nimrod a Serbian Emperor born in Nis around 2500 BC!
Also look at the place names with SAR and RAS you can find them from India to North Africa and all the way up to Scandinavia!
What is slav again--> Glory Gloryious people
Celt also means Glory
And I know that Illirians/Gauls/Celts have the same origin
For one there is no question about that albanians belong to the area. We did not magically drop down from the sky in 1940 as many of you serbs claim. No historian with self respect would claim that, granted albanian history is fragmented, but they would also with 100% assurance tell you that albanians were born in balkan. Albanians are not and have never been a migrational people like the slavs for instants. You want evidence?, no problem, read a book, read about albanian language and its development, the answers are all there, i have personally read french, british among many other and albanian history about albanians and they all tell you the same thing mor or less. Since the beginning of albanians we have always been made up of small kingdoms, that is what you in current history call clans, and traces of that are still visible today.
can you please come up with any link of a research done from a scholars that back your claims?
Noel Malcolm is a scholar and his work can't be put down.
but he is not the only one scholar .Like him there are many more scholars put albanians as indigenous people .I can put here hundreds academic work from all over the world that soupport that .
Can you bring only one link to back up your clams?
Albanian sure names are a good indication of what kingdom you might derive from(although since its so long ago that principle has to some extent been washed of but there are still many sure names that refer to the Kingdoms)but none the less we are all the same namely albanians, you should be aware of the fact that this "tradition" of a people being fragmented into kingdom/clans is the very essence of all kind of races. Its only about 300 years ago that the Swedes finally got together under a single kingdom. This unification that has occurred with other races, did not have a chance to have a natural development with Albanian, and the answer to that is simple. Simply because balkan has essentially always found its self in war, ever since the greek, roman, slav and turkish empire and we albanians have found ourself right in the middle of it. Granted that we are a small people i often wonder how we were able to survive, but here we are still alive today. I do not ignore your serbian history so please do not ignore my history either. You must know that history is not picture clear, obviously many years have passed, and you must also know that these invasive empires probably had the intention of taking over so it was in their interest to wipe out as much of albanian traces as possible and this especially is something that you serbs have done very well, but there is still evidence left which no one can deny, and its me, i am an albanian
Nori:Lying is not a quality..
(Dragan, 16 January 2013 14:41)
No Dragan, lying is absolutely not a quality by my measures either. But i dont really understand what it was i was lying about. I agree that today we albanians are making mistakes but those mistakes are put upon us because of the situation we find ourself in. As i said if Serbia would have recognized Kosovo from the beginning, all of us would be in a better situation today. I grew up in Kosovo so i am not lying when i say that you treated us like crap and threatened our very existence, i experienced that personally so i know what im talking about, i did not read that on B92. So did my father mother grandfather and so on. You are probably a decent human being and if you knew everything that was going in KS i think that you would have told your government that they should stop what they were doing. With Ibrahim Rugova we tried for decades the peaceful way but that only gave us more suffering. You gave us no other choice then to take to arms. Its not a lie when i tell you that during 98/99, 12000 thousand albanian civilians were murderd in KS, that over 1 million were expelled and that ALL of our homes and mosques and albanian catholic churches were burnt down by serb forces. As always you put us in a extremely difficult position, of course nationalism will derive from that, what do you expect? We all share to some extent responsibility, but some of us are more guilty then other and are the cause of the suffering.
illirian is not an albanian word, todays albanians have taken illyrian words since they were always only bystanders, the albanian language is made up by borrowed words from all other languages, so there is not much left of a socalled authentic "albanian language" anyway.
and those remarks about 3000 years... well, needless to say that you make yourself publicly a fool...
you may believe this crap, but, rest assured... modern history knows better who and what you are.
and, the last scientific attempt to prove that socalled illyrian theory was in the late 1980ies, made by archeologists from Chicago, ...and they came to the conclusion that this theory is just a nice theory at best.
there are no artifacts, no written documents mentioning you...there is nothing at all, and still you claim to be the descendants of the illyrians!
actually, you´re beating the record for the longest period of time that someone is believing in an illusion that has already been disproved.
but as long some smart guys like Noel Malcolm can make some bucks , at least some others will take profit of your dreams. =)
I really hope that every Albanian buys this kind of "real books", more easy money to Mr.Malcolm
@renato
Skopje was a Serbian capital, Skopje was a Bulgarian capital, Skopje was a Byzantine province capital!
Even Elbasan was not albanian!
The Turks established that city and the first inhabitants were people from Skopje/Ohrid/Bitola/Thessaloniki/Kastoria/Serres
Meaning: Serbs/Macedonians/Bulgarians/Greeks/Vlachs
Here skopje 1953:
122,143 people lived in Skopje, of whom 74,686 or 61.1% were Macedonian, 22,562 or 18.5% were Turks, 8,650 or 7.1% were Serbian, 7,829 or 6.4% were Roma and 3,166 or 2.6% were Albanian
Also this:
Uskub was a key player in the Ilinden Uprising of August 1903 when the native population of the region declared the emergence of the Krusevo Republic.
Anyway in the Ottoman empire Skopje was a Majority Muslim city!
But most Muslims were slavic (Srb/Bul/Mkd)
As in many villages in Macedonia many Muslim Macedonians and Turks started speaking Albanian and identify themselves as such now...
As i read once that since WW2 more then 80.000 Macedonian-Muslims were Albania!
(Sides story) same with the Serbs in the Metochia region of Kosovo!
but that does not mean Skopje or other towns were Albanians live were Albanian that was clearly not the case!
I got one word for you guys.. and that is Ylliria. don't ask us stupid questions about iliria, go read as I did. Albanians are direct descendents of the ilirans, kosova than called Dardania is an Illyrian reagon or tribe of Illyria. go read and find out how all the wars went on and how we came to these modern day names. see we still have illirian words, serbs DONT FYROM don't, slavs DONT, and thers so much proof that Albanians are illirians, one is the Arbresht that moved to Italy< theris illirian-albanian and so on. o yea and oviosly serbs aren't illirians, their language is close to Russian, they came from Russia into Balkans in around 5 century. what elese do serbians want? well nobody cares what they want,poworful democratic countries that have brains understand this, that's why they made kosova independent, and they still have more plans on favor of Albanians decendent of illirans ;)
Bugar,One thing I know for sure there were no Bugars or Maqedon in city of Shkup until 1933.
(Renato, 16 January 2013 22:09)
Hang on a second, I have to pull you up here on this one. Are you honestly trying to tell us that there were no Macedonians or Bulgarians living in Skopje at all until 1933? I think you are stretching it a bit here.
IMAGE SOURCE
37 Komentari
Sortiraj po: