“Macedonian Church wants recognition”

Build a church in Kosovo,the albo will recognise and then burn it down.

O common you Serbs ... Can't even recognize a church this should be a new EU condition ;-) . Freedom of religion for MACs o wait I think , I just resolved the name dispute MACs, or Big MACs

Listen people
An Albanian orthodox Christian is explaining this to you. Listen.

Nationalism has been the rot of our church. The major problem we have is nationalism.
Just look at the naming: Greek Orthodox Church, Serbian Orthodox Church, Albanian Orthodox Church. THIS IS WRONG.

The correct one is the one in USA: Orthodox church .....in...America.
The correct naming must be: Orthodox Church ...in...Serbia. Orthodox Church ...in...Albania. Orthodox Church ....in...Russia.

The church is for everybody, not serbians, not Albanians, not greeks.
Nationalization of the churches is DISGUSTING.

Merry Christmas to the old calendar canonical orthodox Christians.

According to Veljanovski, the establishment of the MPC in 1967, “200 years after it was illegally abolished” was not a political or a nationalistic but a spiritual act “in accordance with the wishes of the Orthodox people to renew autocephalous spaces for their salvation.

Yes i'm sure that the Tito communist regime was very interested in the spiritual well-being and salvation of its orthodox citizens. Its motive wasn't the weakening of the influence of the Serbian Church or of anything serbian within Yugoslavia.

“The MPC is always ready for a dialogue with the Serbian Orthodox Church (SPC) about the dispute that does not bring anything good to anyone,” he stressed and added that he had sent a letter to Belgrade.

So then why would you go directly to Turkey and talk to B.Bartholomew, instead of trying to respecfully and directly request it from Belgrade?
It seems that the MPC tries to get everybody else's permission, instead of its' Mother church??

As with any other organization, you need to swim through the bureaucratic ocean and get official recognition. Only then, will there be an autocephalous church..

What the heck does Nikolic have to do with any of this??

According to B92:

"Other, canonical Orthodox churches in the world do not recognize the MPC."

The canonical Albanian Orthodox churches in both Albania and the USA do recognize the Macedonian Orthodox church.

Their church has always been the Bulgarian Church!

Don't start with Serbia church. Bulgarian church is the oldest and 1st Serbian patriarch and his church got recognized by being backed by Bulgaria. Accusing Macedonia of re-writing history is rich by Serbs here, when they do it themselves! Just because you stole Macedonia last century n lost it in the 90's, you think that the last issue, church, is some way for you to get it back? Serbs n "Macedonians" in their own ways trying to rewrite church history, bunch of clowns!

I quote,
The Ottoman government restored the Bulgarian Patriarchate under the name of "Bulgarian Exarchate" by a decree (firman) of the Sultan promulgated on February 28, 1870. The original Exarchate extended over present-day northern Bulgaria (Moesia), Thrace without the Vilayet of Adrianople, as well as over north-eastern Macedonia. After the Christian population of the bishoprics of Skopje and Ohrid voted in 1874 overwhelmingly in favour of joining the Exarchate (Skopje by 91%, Ohrid by 97%), the Bulgarian Exarchate became in control of the whole of Vardar and Pirin Macedonia. The Bulgarian Exarchate was partially represented in southern Macedonia and the Vilayet of Adrianople by vicars. Thus, the borders of the Exarchate included all Bulgarian districts in the Ottoman Empire.

Why doesn't the Serbs recognise the Church? Aren't the Serbs, Slavic brothers with FYROMANIANS? Let them have their church.

I wonder if my church, the Greek Orthodox Church of Albania recognise the FYROM church?? Anyone know??
I am an ethnic Greek of Albania (many would think I'd be anti FYROM church), but I don't see why politics should interfere with religion, and certainly not nationalism.

Listen people
An Albanian orthodox Christian is explaining this to you. Listen.

Nationalism has been the rot of our church. The major problem we have is nationalism.
Just look at the naming: Greek Orthodox Church, Serbian Orthodox Church, Albanian Orthodox Church. THIS IS WRONG.

The correct one is the one in USA: Orthodox church .....in...America.
The correct naming must be: Orthodox Church ...in...Serbia. Orthodox Church ...in...Albania. Orthodox Church ....in...Russia.

The church is for everybody, not serbians, not Albanians, not greeks.
Nationalization of the churches is DISGUSTING.

Merry Christmas to the old calendar canonical orthodox Christians.
(kris, 5 January 2013 23:12)

Well put Kris. Thank you for your meaningful comment.
One of the best comments this site has ever seen.

We already have a Macedonian church vre. it's on the menu under cheesburgers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=guQzlA86BJA

"Other, canonical Orthodox churches in the world do not recognize the MPC."
============================
So why is Serbia getting all the blame then?
I suggest FYRM talk to Greece and Russia. Maybe if they get their backing Serbia will be easy to crack.
Even if Serbia gives her blessing the others will hold out.
I wish everyone would just stop pointing fingers at Serbia. It clearly states that none of other Orthodox churches are going to play along.

"The canonical Albanian Orthodox churches in both Albania and the USA do recognize the Macedonian Orthodox church."
(The Count of Kosova, 5 January 2013 21:24)

Long time ago, today Canonical Orthodox Albanian church is former Serbian church... see your root when albo com from Sicily in 1042.You do same policy with Makedonian orthodox church to be separated with Tito policy " Smaler Serbia beter Yugoslavija".

Well if anyone doesn't like the way the orthodox world is organised they can always change dogma or religion. The orthodox world, which of course is not a world of saints, consists of national independent churches and that's how it's been since the Middle Ages. One of the good things about Orthodoxy is that we do not have a pope and the ecumenical patriarch is just primus inter pares in the orthodox hierarchy. As for the issue of the so-called Macedonian Church that's an internal issue of the Serbian Church and it should be resolved by clergymen without the interference of politicians. However i think that an apology is in order for the mistreatment and persecutions of archbishop Jovan and his followers.

"The correct one is the one in USA: Orthodox church .....in...America.
The correct naming must be: Orthodox Church ...in...Serbia. Orthodox Church ...in...Albania. Orthodox Church ....in...Russia.

The church is for everybody, not serbians, not Albanians, not greeks.
Nationalization of the churches is DISGUSTING. "

(kris, 5 January 2013 23:12)

I totally agree, though now I wonder why some Albo poster below talked about the 'Albanian orthodox church of USA'

"Nationalization of the churches is DISGUSTING. "

So is nationalization of Greek's Alexander the Great and his horse by FYROM.

Evangelis

Greek from Albania?How could that be?The Albanians on this site keep telling us there no Greeks in Albania but only orthodox Albanians pretending to be Greeks in order to get monthly payments from the Greek state.Any Albanian comment?

"Nationalization of the churches is DISGUSTING. "

a very good sentiment, sadly for you though this has always happened with the Orthodox Church. the only reason why the Albanian Orthodox Church was set up, is because of the Hudson incident. a greek priest refused to read the last rights to an Orthodox Albanian because he had fought on the side of the Albanian National Movement. finally Fan Noli told greek priests to shove it, one of the best things Orthodox Albanians have ever done.

Evangelis

Greek from Albania?How could that be?The Albanians on this site keep telling us there no Greeks in Albania but only orthodox Albanians pretending to be Greeks in order to get monthly payments from the Greek state.Any Albanian comment?

@Gotsefromohrid

I guess you lack the knowledge of Albania or Greece. Don't worry it's typical. But I suggest in order not to make yourself like a fool that you read deeply. Greeks have existed in Albania for a long time. Some mixed, some full. We have bonds that a lot of people are surprised about. As for the census, pfft. It's obvious that the census are a fraud to hide the true Greek numbers in Albania. Hence it is not the truth. But please, leave Greeks and Albanians alone, for we have so much things that makes us one, its a shame a lot fail to recognise. And lets focus on the topic of the MPC church because that's what the article is about.

P.S what you said about payments is a false belief, the Hellenic government needs deep proof of documents to believe everyone who says they are Greek and only Greek and to be entitled to that. The thought of what you said is a typical nationalistic view of an Albanian who for some reasons doesn't like Greeks and can't accept we live in Albania in very large numbers. Failing to see we are exactly the same.

To get the message straight here, the Slavic Macedonians are Bulgarians.
I don't know what got into their mind about Alexander the Great.

Beside trying to steal unsuccessfully Alexander the Great from the Greeks, they are trying to steal unsuccessfully Mother Teresa from Albanians.

Those guys should slow down a little. The least harmful way is for them to accept that they are Bulgarians and all problems will be solved.

The Balkan peninsular ought to be divided spiritually according to the 1939 borders, between the four Orthodox churches of Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and a united Orthodox community within the 1939-41 territory of Yugoslavia (except for the Banovina of Croatia).
Orthodox christians living east of the Southern Bug river ought to be subjects of the Pathriarchate of Moscow.

According to B92:

"Other, canonical Orthodox churches in the world do not recognize the MPC."

The canonical Albanian Orthodox churches in both Albania and the USA do recognize the Macedonian Orthodox church.

Build a church in Kosovo,the albo will recognise and then burn it down.

Their church has always been the Bulgarian Church!

Don't start with Serbia church. Bulgarian church is the oldest and 1st Serbian patriarch and his church got recognized by being backed by Bulgaria. Accusing Macedonia of re-writing history is rich by Serbs here, when they do it themselves! Just because you stole Macedonia last century n lost it in the 90's, you think that the last issue, church, is some way for you to get it back? Serbs n "Macedonians" in their own ways trying to rewrite church history, bunch of clowns!

I quote,
The Ottoman government restored the Bulgarian Patriarchate under the name of "Bulgarian Exarchate" by a decree (firman) of the Sultan promulgated on February 28, 1870. The original Exarchate extended over present-day northern Bulgaria (Moesia), Thrace without the Vilayet of Adrianople, as well as over north-eastern Macedonia. After the Christian population of the bishoprics of Skopje and Ohrid voted in 1874 overwhelmingly in favour of joining the Exarchate (Skopje by 91%, Ohrid by 97%), the Bulgarian Exarchate became in control of the whole of Vardar and Pirin Macedonia. The Bulgarian Exarchate was partially represented in southern Macedonia and the Vilayet of Adrianople by vicars. Thus, the borders of the Exarchate included all Bulgarian districts in the Ottoman Empire.

According to Veljanovski, the establishment of the MPC in 1967, “200 years after it was illegally abolished” was not a political or a nationalistic but a spiritual act “in accordance with the wishes of the Orthodox people to renew autocephalous spaces for their salvation.

Yes i'm sure that the Tito communist regime was very interested in the spiritual well-being and salvation of its orthodox citizens. Its motive wasn't the weakening of the influence of the Serbian Church or of anything serbian within Yugoslavia.

“The MPC is always ready for a dialogue with the Serbian Orthodox Church (SPC) about the dispute that does not bring anything good to anyone,” he stressed and added that he had sent a letter to Belgrade.

So then why would you go directly to Turkey and talk to B.Bartholomew, instead of trying to respecfully and directly request it from Belgrade?
It seems that the MPC tries to get everybody else's permission, instead of its' Mother church??

As with any other organization, you need to swim through the bureaucratic ocean and get official recognition. Only then, will there be an autocephalous church..

What the heck does Nikolic have to do with any of this??

We already have a Macedonian church vre. it's on the menu under cheesburgers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=guQzlA86BJA

O common you Serbs ... Can't even recognize a church this should be a new EU condition ;-) . Freedom of religion for MACs o wait I think , I just resolved the name dispute MACs, or Big MACs

Listen people
An Albanian orthodox Christian is explaining this to you. Listen.

Nationalism has been the rot of our church. The major problem we have is nationalism.
Just look at the naming: Greek Orthodox Church, Serbian Orthodox Church, Albanian Orthodox Church. THIS IS WRONG.

The correct one is the one in USA: Orthodox church .....in...America.
The correct naming must be: Orthodox Church ...in...Serbia. Orthodox Church ...in...Albania. Orthodox Church ....in...Russia.

The church is for everybody, not serbians, not Albanians, not greeks.
Nationalization of the churches is DISGUSTING.

Merry Christmas to the old calendar canonical orthodox Christians.

"Nationalization of the churches is DISGUSTING. "

a very good sentiment, sadly for you though this has always happened with the Orthodox Church. the only reason why the Albanian Orthodox Church was set up, is because of the Hudson incident. a greek priest refused to read the last rights to an Orthodox Albanian because he had fought on the side of the Albanian National Movement. finally Fan Noli told greek priests to shove it, one of the best things Orthodox Albanians have ever done.

"Other, canonical Orthodox churches in the world do not recognize the MPC."
============================
So why is Serbia getting all the blame then?
I suggest FYRM talk to Greece and Russia. Maybe if they get their backing Serbia will be easy to crack.
Even if Serbia gives her blessing the others will hold out.
I wish everyone would just stop pointing fingers at Serbia. It clearly states that none of other Orthodox churches are going to play along.

To get the message straight here, the Slavic Macedonians are Bulgarians.
I don't know what got into their mind about Alexander the Great.

Beside trying to steal unsuccessfully Alexander the Great from the Greeks, they are trying to steal unsuccessfully Mother Teresa from Albanians.

Those guys should slow down a little. The least harmful way is for them to accept that they are Bulgarians and all problems will be solved.

Well if anyone doesn't like the way the orthodox world is organised they can always change dogma or religion. The orthodox world, which of course is not a world of saints, consists of national independent churches and that's how it's been since the Middle Ages. One of the good things about Orthodoxy is that we do not have a pope and the ecumenical patriarch is just primus inter pares in the orthodox hierarchy. As for the issue of the so-called Macedonian Church that's an internal issue of the Serbian Church and it should be resolved by clergymen without the interference of politicians. However i think that an apology is in order for the mistreatment and persecutions of archbishop Jovan and his followers.

Listen people
An Albanian orthodox Christian is explaining this to you. Listen.

Nationalism has been the rot of our church. The major problem we have is nationalism.
Just look at the naming: Greek Orthodox Church, Serbian Orthodox Church, Albanian Orthodox Church. THIS IS WRONG.

The correct one is the one in USA: Orthodox church .....in...America.
The correct naming must be: Orthodox Church ...in...Serbia. Orthodox Church ...in...Albania. Orthodox Church ....in...Russia.

The church is for everybody, not serbians, not Albanians, not greeks.
Nationalization of the churches is DISGUSTING.

Merry Christmas to the old calendar canonical orthodox Christians.
(kris, 5 January 2013 23:12)

Well put Kris. Thank you for your meaningful comment.
One of the best comments this site has ever seen.

"The canonical Albanian Orthodox churches in both Albania and the USA do recognize the Macedonian Orthodox church."
(The Count of Kosova, 5 January 2013 21:24)

Long time ago, today Canonical Orthodox Albanian church is former Serbian church... see your root when albo com from Sicily in 1042.You do same policy with Makedonian orthodox church to be separated with Tito policy " Smaler Serbia beter Yugoslavija".

Why doesn't the Serbs recognise the Church? Aren't the Serbs, Slavic brothers with FYROMANIANS? Let them have their church.

I wonder if my church, the Greek Orthodox Church of Albania recognise the FYROM church?? Anyone know??
I am an ethnic Greek of Albania (many would think I'd be anti FYROM church), but I don't see why politics should interfere with religion, and certainly not nationalism.

"The correct one is the one in USA: Orthodox church .....in...America.
The correct naming must be: Orthodox Church ...in...Serbia. Orthodox Church ...in...Albania. Orthodox Church ....in...Russia.

The church is for everybody, not serbians, not Albanians, not greeks.
Nationalization of the churches is DISGUSTING. "

(kris, 5 January 2013 23:12)

I totally agree, though now I wonder why some Albo poster below talked about the 'Albanian orthodox church of USA'

Evangelis

Greek from Albania?How could that be?The Albanians on this site keep telling us there no Greeks in Albania but only orthodox Albanians pretending to be Greeks in order to get monthly payments from the Greek state.Any Albanian comment?

Evangelis

Greek from Albania?How could that be?The Albanians on this site keep telling us there no Greeks in Albania but only orthodox Albanians pretending to be Greeks in order to get monthly payments from the Greek state.Any Albanian comment?

"Nationalization of the churches is DISGUSTING. "

So is nationalization of Greek's Alexander the Great and his horse by FYROM.

@Gotsefromohrid

I guess you lack the knowledge of Albania or Greece. Don't worry it's typical. But I suggest in order not to make yourself like a fool that you read deeply. Greeks have existed in Albania for a long time. Some mixed, some full. We have bonds that a lot of people are surprised about. As for the census, pfft. It's obvious that the census are a fraud to hide the true Greek numbers in Albania. Hence it is not the truth. But please, leave Greeks and Albanians alone, for we have so much things that makes us one, its a shame a lot fail to recognise. And lets focus on the topic of the MPC church because that's what the article is about.

P.S what you said about payments is a false belief, the Hellenic government needs deep proof of documents to believe everyone who says they are Greek and only Greek and to be entitled to that. The thought of what you said is a typical nationalistic view of an Albanian who for some reasons doesn't like Greeks and can't accept we live in Albania in very large numbers. Failing to see we are exactly the same.

The Balkan peninsular ought to be divided spiritually according to the 1939 borders, between the four Orthodox churches of Greece, Bulgaria, Romania and a united Orthodox community within the 1939-41 territory of Yugoslavia (except for the Banovina of Croatia).
Orthodox christians living east of the Southern Bug river ought to be subjects of the Pathriarchate of Moscow.