Chinese interested in Belgrade-Thessaloniki canal

It is not clear from this story that the Chinese are at all interested in this project. But it is good that Serbia is.

Serbia is blessed with navigable rivers which could be used to transfer goods from sea ports to the heart of Europe.

Serbia could finance this canal itself. The main costs are design, digging and concrete. These activities can be done by Serbian companies who are happy to be paid in Dinars. The canal will take 20 years to build and may cost 20 billion euros, which means that the Serbian National Bank needs to create 100 billion dinars (equivalent to 1 billion euros) a year for the next 20 years to pay for this project.

This 100 billion Dinars would be spent in Serbia and create demand for other Serbian products and services.

When the canal is finished Serbia will earn a fee every time a ship sails through it.

The canal might also be used to provide Serbian water to the Greeks and earn additional income.

This is a perfect infrastructure project that would bring benefits to Serbia, FYROM, Greece and the whole of Europe.

This project would make Serbia a more strategically vital place, and safer as well. It would be a huge boon for investment and business growth across Europe. I also like the idea of modernizing the railway as another poster suggested, I would not do that instead I would do it in addition to this or perhaps a means of doing it. Lets modernize the railroad first and use the profits towards this.

what a joke

You mention Zimbabwe, but why not also mention the European Central Bank, the Bank of England, the American Federal Reserve Bank and the Japanese Central Bank. These “western” central banks have created 20 trillion euros “out of thin air” over the past four years.

In the West they call money creation “Quantitative Easing,” but they are only “printing money.”

The difference between what I am suggesting for Serbia and what the Western nations are doing is that my “money printing” scheme helps ordinary people and the Western “Quantitative Easing” scheme helps the international financial elite.

Look at Greece, they now have a 400 billion euro debt and yet unemployment is soaring, wages are falling and prices increasing. Who is benefiting from the Greek bailout?

There is a Class War going on and the elite are fighting for their lives. The poor are kept in ignorance and blame each other for their poverty.

I don't know how this will benefit the economy in the short run. We are talking about a project that will take a generation to complete with few benefits to the Serbian nation. How do you justify the cost and who will pay? Serbia, Greece, the Chinese?
Why not start with something that will not take a generation to realise and is much needed. Modernising the railway network between Belgrade and Thessaloniki will be cheaper and faster to build and will benefit trade and tourism in both directions. A railway line that will eventually stretch all the way to Halkidiki or Katerini will be of huge economic value to both Serbia and Greece and will not result in yet an other 'white elephant' project.

This ties in with Chinese interest in Novi Sad Danube port where the intention is to create the largest Chinese distribution hub for all its goods entering into Europe.

Its a mid to long term perspective where over priced Dutch ports on the western limits of a pan European market (i.e. more than just EU if its still exists) is replaced with low cost central European hub for all Chinese goods across the whole of Europe and anything or any other countries goods from across the globe.

Totally agree that rail infrastructure could do with a great deal of investment though should seperate out potential use with reason for development - for instance high speed connections for passenger use is totally opposite need for goods/freight use.

cry me a river

One of the reasons people like you won’t accept my arguments is because you do not understand how the banking system works. I don’t mean to question your intelligence, but the truth about banking has been hidden from the public for at least 200 years, and perhaps for 2000 years.

All Western private banks and Central banks create money out of thin air. They do this by using a fraud called “Fractional Reserve Lending.” This means they can lend many times more money than they hold as deposits.

So, I deposit £100 in my local bank, the banking system as a whole will transform this £100 deposit into loans of £1000. Where did the extra £900 come from? It was created out of thin air using fractional reserve rules. The banks pay me 2% for my £100 deposit (£2 a year) and charge borrowers 10% on £1000 of loans (£100 per year). If things go wrong and the loans cannot be repaid, the governments will bail-out the banks. This is how the elites take money from us year after year.

What I have suggested is not some crazy Michael Thomas economics. I am only suggesting that we use the current financial system, but do so in the interests of the people and not the elites.

Serbs listen to Michael Thomas, his ideas on economics can send you places. Where we do not know. He follows the famous Zimbabwe economic tree. You know the one where a loaf of bread finally cost 3 million Zimbabwe dollars.
If you are self sustaining on an island somewhere and do not need to financially interact with other countries then you can place any value you want on your currency. However, once you go outside then you money is given a value by the international community. If you purchase products from the outside that is done with an international currency, so that loaf of bread that cost you 100 dinars today will cost you 10,000 dinars tomorrow.
So print away, at least you will become a topic on all the news channel.

If it were that easy there would be NO poor nations in the world and the US would be debt free.

2T, No country can prosper by being shortsighted.
Projects such as these will ensure our long term future survival.
We must leave a legacy for our children and our grandchildren which will benefit them.
This project is excellent and shows that Serbian politicians are thinking long term. Anyone can think short term but it takes a true visionary to think long term.

(what a joke, 24 December 2012 14:42)

Michael's ideas are not new,wild or untested.Any government can finance its entire debt through its central bank interest free.Borrowing interest-free from its central bank was done by Canada from 1939 to 1974, by France from 1946 to 1973, and by Australia and New Zealand in the first half of the 20th century, to excellent effect and without creating price inflation.

When using Zimbabwe as an example you've got to include other factors such as land re-distribution and agricultural production(Prior to Mugabe coming into power the country was one of the biggest exporters of agricultural commodities).

I will finish with a quote by Thomas Edison:

If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill. The element that makes the bond good, makes the bill good, also. The difference between the bond and the bill is the bond lets money brokers collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional 20%, whereas the currency pays nobody but those who contribute directly in some useful way. It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay, but one promise fattens the usurers and the other helps the people.

This is exactly the kind of European infrastructure project that would benefit from EU funds, as long as it is properly managed and audited.

Both Bulgaria and Romania have failed to make use of hundreds of millions of available euros for such projects because they were too corrupt in government and it is extremely difficult to find appropriately qualified citizens to run these projects (the most qualified already gone and made a life for themselves abroad). So much for taking full advantage of the EU...

Really Michael?
You just made Another SJ sound like a genius!
(cry me a river, 24 December 2012 15:25)
Sadly it’s obvious that your knowledge of finance is limited to receipt of social security payment and that money drops from the sky in plentiful supply.

Really Michael?
You just made Another SJ sound like a genius!

Serbs listen to Michael Thomas, his ideas on economics can send you places. Where we do not know. He follows the famous Zimbabwe economic tree. You know the one where a loaf of bread finally cost 3 million Zimbabwe dollars.
If you are self sustaining on an island somewhere and do not need to financially interact with other countries then you can place any value you want on your currency. However, once you go outside then you money is given a value by the international community. If you purchase products from the outside that is done with an international currency, so that loaf of bread that cost you 100 dinars today will cost you 10,000 dinars tomorrow.
So print away, at least you will become a topic on all the news channel.

If it were that easy there would be NO poor nations in the world and the US would be debt free.

Really Michael?
You just made Another SJ sound like a genius!

I don't know how this will benefit the economy in the short run. We are talking about a project that will take a generation to complete with few benefits to the Serbian nation. How do you justify the cost and who will pay? Serbia, Greece, the Chinese?
Why not start with something that will not take a generation to realise and is much needed. Modernising the railway network between Belgrade and Thessaloniki will be cheaper and faster to build and will benefit trade and tourism in both directions. A railway line that will eventually stretch all the way to Halkidiki or Katerini will be of huge economic value to both Serbia and Greece and will not result in yet an other 'white elephant' project.

It is not clear from this story that the Chinese are at all interested in this project. But it is good that Serbia is.

Serbia is blessed with navigable rivers which could be used to transfer goods from sea ports to the heart of Europe.

Serbia could finance this canal itself. The main costs are design, digging and concrete. These activities can be done by Serbian companies who are happy to be paid in Dinars. The canal will take 20 years to build and may cost 20 billion euros, which means that the Serbian National Bank needs to create 100 billion dinars (equivalent to 1 billion euros) a year for the next 20 years to pay for this project.

This 100 billion Dinars would be spent in Serbia and create demand for other Serbian products and services.

When the canal is finished Serbia will earn a fee every time a ship sails through it.

The canal might also be used to provide Serbian water to the Greeks and earn additional income.

This is a perfect infrastructure project that would bring benefits to Serbia, FYROM, Greece and the whole of Europe.

cry me a river

One of the reasons people like you won’t accept my arguments is because you do not understand how the banking system works. I don’t mean to question your intelligence, but the truth about banking has been hidden from the public for at least 200 years, and perhaps for 2000 years.

All Western private banks and Central banks create money out of thin air. They do this by using a fraud called “Fractional Reserve Lending.” This means they can lend many times more money than they hold as deposits.

So, I deposit £100 in my local bank, the banking system as a whole will transform this £100 deposit into loans of £1000. Where did the extra £900 come from? It was created out of thin air using fractional reserve rules. The banks pay me 2% for my £100 deposit (£2 a year) and charge borrowers 10% on £1000 of loans (£100 per year). If things go wrong and the loans cannot be repaid, the governments will bail-out the banks. This is how the elites take money from us year after year.

What I have suggested is not some crazy Michael Thomas economics. I am only suggesting that we use the current financial system, but do so in the interests of the people and not the elites.

This project would make Serbia a more strategically vital place, and safer as well. It would be a huge boon for investment and business growth across Europe. I also like the idea of modernizing the railway as another poster suggested, I would not do that instead I would do it in addition to this or perhaps a means of doing it. Lets modernize the railroad first and use the profits towards this.

what a joke

You mention Zimbabwe, but why not also mention the European Central Bank, the Bank of England, the American Federal Reserve Bank and the Japanese Central Bank. These “western” central banks have created 20 trillion euros “out of thin air” over the past four years.

In the West they call money creation “Quantitative Easing,” but they are only “printing money.”

The difference between what I am suggesting for Serbia and what the Western nations are doing is that my “money printing” scheme helps ordinary people and the Western “Quantitative Easing” scheme helps the international financial elite.

Look at Greece, they now have a 400 billion euro debt and yet unemployment is soaring, wages are falling and prices increasing. Who is benefiting from the Greek bailout?

There is a Class War going on and the elite are fighting for their lives. The poor are kept in ignorance and blame each other for their poverty.

This ties in with Chinese interest in Novi Sad Danube port where the intention is to create the largest Chinese distribution hub for all its goods entering into Europe.

Its a mid to long term perspective where over priced Dutch ports on the western limits of a pan European market (i.e. more than just EU if its still exists) is replaced with low cost central European hub for all Chinese goods across the whole of Europe and anything or any other countries goods from across the globe.

Totally agree that rail infrastructure could do with a great deal of investment though should seperate out potential use with reason for development - for instance high speed connections for passenger use is totally opposite need for goods/freight use.

2T, No country can prosper by being shortsighted.
Projects such as these will ensure our long term future survival.
We must leave a legacy for our children and our grandchildren which will benefit them.
This project is excellent and shows that Serbian politicians are thinking long term. Anyone can think short term but it takes a true visionary to think long term.

(what a joke, 24 December 2012 14:42)

Michael's ideas are not new,wild or untested.Any government can finance its entire debt through its central bank interest free.Borrowing interest-free from its central bank was done by Canada from 1939 to 1974, by France from 1946 to 1973, and by Australia and New Zealand in the first half of the 20th century, to excellent effect and without creating price inflation.

When using Zimbabwe as an example you've got to include other factors such as land re-distribution and agricultural production(Prior to Mugabe coming into power the country was one of the biggest exporters of agricultural commodities).

I will finish with a quote by Thomas Edison:

If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill. The element that makes the bond good, makes the bill good, also. The difference between the bond and the bill is the bond lets money brokers collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional 20%, whereas the currency pays nobody but those who contribute directly in some useful way. It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay, but one promise fattens the usurers and the other helps the people.

Really Michael?
You just made Another SJ sound like a genius!
(cry me a river, 24 December 2012 15:25)
Sadly it’s obvious that your knowledge of finance is limited to receipt of social security payment and that money drops from the sky in plentiful supply.

This is exactly the kind of European infrastructure project that would benefit from EU funds, as long as it is properly managed and audited.

Both Bulgaria and Romania have failed to make use of hundreds of millions of available euros for such projects because they were too corrupt in government and it is extremely difficult to find appropriately qualified citizens to run these projects (the most qualified already gone and made a life for themselves abroad). So much for taking full advantage of the EU...