@cj there's 1200 churches and 600 mosques in albania and they are beautifu despite the fact that 57% of albanians are muslim l. We alb Christians feel right at home with our brothers we won't be going anywhere especially NOT grease or Serbia .
oh dear, the irony. tell me again Peggy, who is it that is responsible for the worst massacre on European soil since world war 2? i'll give you a clue, its not Albanians
(Nikolle, 17 December 2012 10:39)
==========================
Not officially, no, but you are a protected species right now. Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians have been able to get away with everything so far but the truth will come out eventually.
Never forget this: Zaklela se zemlja raju da se tajne sve odaju.
All in good time.
That was before the turks finished up byzantium.
You have a lot of history to read.
This is a starter only.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Uro%C5%A1_II_Milutin_of_Serbia
The school system if for brainwashing, not only in the balkans, but everywhere in the world.
@the Albanian who in all seriousness believes he has "hit a nerve"...
my dear, you may call KiM how ever you wish, it stays serbian territory, until the Serbs do not give it away. I am not exactly sure whether you understand at all what I am talking about, since ...many Albanians are leading a life I´d call rather less-influenced by morale, justice and law - and therefore you might not get it if someone tells you that you live on serbian soil.
you are free to believe and even dream of your "natural Albania" or "Albania B" ... but in the end, you are only albanian settlers on serbian land.
the consequences for you will be that most of you will have to make a decision when the time has come, and I think it won´t take that incredibly long until you Albanians will be shown where your place is.
last but not least, to answer your rather naive question, although I think you wanted to pose a "rhetorical" question though, no, you didn´t hit any nerve at all. you´re amusing me. and I think not only me.
but that´s another story.
fact is, you´ll be surprised how short-lived your littel freak-creation on our land will be and furthermore: not only you, but all of you Albanians arguing here on this site, ...you have NEVER presented any REAL facts for your claims to be the descendants of the "illyrians".. you only talk, but do not come up with hard facts.
where are those artifacts, insriptions, documents and so on? come on, boy, don´t lie to yourself, you´re humiliating yourselves...
oh dear, the irony. tell me again Peggy, who is it that is responsible for the worst massacre on European soil since world war 2? i'll give you a clue, its not Albanians
Rocky
Thankyou for your reply,I did enjoy reading it, only problem is that it is just "SIMPLY" based on a theory from India's Dr Bhubaneshwar, rather than than factual historical evidence, but more importantly it has nothing to do with my original question. My argument is not that Sebs/Croats/Slavs did not migrate to the region(Kosovo) at some point in history but rather that there was no advanced or influental civilization inhabiting the area at the time. Dr.Bhubanshewar also states in his findings that
"The Croats and Serbs arrived in the Balkans in the 620s, a land already occupied by the Slavs"
No where in your link does it mention that Illyrians or Dardanians the indeginous inhabitants in Kosovo
Brandon
I believe that all people have the right for self determination, wholeheartedley in fact, but not when it takes away those same rights from others, not if those others are segregated in their ancestral homeland, not when slowly all of their sacred sites, heritage and history is being desecrated, erased to the point that all traces of their existance will one day be gone, and they eventually become a myth.
Illyrians did exist but as for Albanians being their direct decendants,well, I can also give you links all day long claiming otherwise, yes they were on the western coast of the adriatic and eastern tip of Italy, they were also in Bosnia and there are artifacts found in Slovenia, but NOTHING in Kosovo, and that was my question, show me the evidence found in Kosovo!
And what is the Albanian connection with the ancient Illyrians?Absolutely none.Taking into consideration that more than 5 million Albanians live in Turkey and since there is no any literature about Albanian migrations from Albania to Turkey one would reasonably assume that Albanians arrived into Turkey from somewhere else.Caucasus?
(Leonidas, 16 December 2012 16:42)
Leonidas, you should not worry yourself about us Albanians proving our ancestral roots to you, or anybody else for that matter! We have nothing to prove to anybody!! We Albanians & many others know our true ancestral roots, are of the Illyrian race!!! You however, should prove your claims to these sacred land? As for the Turks, when they invaded the Balkans they found out who we Albanians were first hand! Many other cowardly peoples of the Balkans were seeking out places to hide, while we Albanian's were in-fact one of the first to confront the Ottoman threat, head on! As for the Albanians that migrated to Turkey, the answer is very simple. The Ottoman Empire was a economic powerhouse at the time, and many Albanians migrated there for economic opportunity's! You have close to 1 million Albanians living in Greece, you also have close to 1 million Albanians living in Italy, you have nearly 1 million Albanians living in the U.S.A., how about in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, etc. Have we Albanians come from these places also, only to come and settle in the Balkans? Your argument is weak, & has NO foundation!
When the serbians or bulgarians finally withdrew, many of those names remained. Kosovo is one of them.
(kris, 16 December 2012 19:53)
========================
What on earth are you talking about?
Are you forgetting that Serbs were under Ottoman occupation for centuries? When did they have time then to occupy Kosovo?
This means that Kosovo was and is Serbian. When did Serbs withdraw from Kosovo leaving all Serbian names there? Was it during the Ottoman occupation that they withdrew and nobody else built anything there while they had a chance? Nobody changed any names there while they had a chance? Are you talking about the recent withdrawal due to NATO bombing?
What withdrawal are you talking about?
You hate us Albanians and that's not good for you. It's not good to hate anybody.I recommend you go to church for confession.
(kris, 16 December 2012 19:43)
==================================
Gee I wonder why there is a strong dislike of Albanians. Maybe if you Albanians stopped being expansionists and stopped grabbing land that is not yours, you would have friends. Now you only have partners in crime.
As far as going to church for confession, that's a Catholic thing but even if we Orthodox did that on regular basis like the Catholics I wouldn't recommend it. God knows what is in your heart and mind and nobody here on earth can absolve you. It is strictly for him to forgive or not to forgive.
World citizen with Albanian roots answer to origin of Kosovo
pre 11 godina
The region was populated first by the ancestors of Albanians (Dardans or Illirians). Do they have anything common with current KAlb? None knows this but the fact is that Albanians are descendants of them. Serbs came after in 5-6th century. They named the region Kosovo during the battle of Kosovo field (which was carried by Serbs and ALbanias in alliance against turks) but so did the Spanish named San Diego, San-Fran etc. Actually KAlbs have outnumbered Serbs, so have the Chinese and Indians outnumbered the rest of the world. It is not the fault of Albanians that Serbs do not reproduce. However, if you make a DNA genealogy experiment and study haplo-groups you will find that Serbs and Albanians of Kosovo have very much in common maybe more than KAlbanians and Albanians. However, is a fact that now Kosovo has more Albanians than Serbs. If you consider democracy the best system we have to govern a country, this region does not want to be under Serbia. To add to this, the fact that some serb idiots created a lot of trouble (not only for Albanians) that destroyed the only multicultural country in Europe, Yugoslavia it is loss of time to discuss the independence of Kosovo or who was first... There is a dynamics on the world borders that will continue till the humanity disappears. US did not existed at the time when the name Kosovo appeared, while the Germans were barbarians but now they are leaders of the world. Tomorrow will be China, India...
Where on Earth did you get this 5 mill Albanians in Turkey figure from? From what I read, there are 1.5 mill people in Turkey who claim Albanian ancestry. That's it, they're no more Albanian today than the Arbanasi of Croatia (they too have Albanian ancestry) or the Albanians of Ukraine.
As for your Ottoman brothes, well, there's no point in pretending, undoubtedly there were people of Albanian ethnicity who progressed in the ranks of the Ottoman Empire and became Grand Viziers. So were Greeks however, Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha being one of them. In fact when Constantinople was taken, it was taken through Greek mercinaries who fought on the Ottoman side. Deny it all you like, its the truth. I know you have been indoctrinated by your priests to think different, but the past is the past.
As for the origin of the Albanians, well, different ideas from different people. The majority of academics however, in fact a very large percentage of linguists, classify Albanian as an Indo European langauge, distinct from any other, so it means its not Caucasion. Most of them believe its either Thracian, Dacian or Illyrian. If you think them to be wrong, do the following, enroll to study Albanology and show where they are wrong. Dont just write things because of some misguided loyalty for your Orthodox brothers (of course many Greeks point blank refuse to see an Albanian Orthodox as an Albanian, they look at them as Greek). Bizarre
All across balkans where the former byzantine empire existed, there are slavic names of towns and cities still used.Former serbian and bulgarian empires attacked the empire and were close to invading Constantinople. They destroyed many orthodox byzantine churches on the way and renamed many places. Many of those churches were in albanian spoken lands.
As a matter of fact, FYROM claims that because of those slavic names, the province of macedonia in greece belongs to FYROM.
When the serbians or bulgarians finally withdrew, many of those names remained. Kosovo is one of them.
Very simple, Enjoy! You people need some history lesson!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani
Here is another link to help you find your way thru your own created fog!
[link]
(Rocky, 16 December 2012 14:39)
And what is the Albanian connection with the ancient Illyrians?Absolutely none.Taking into consideration that more than 5 million Albanians live in Turkey and since there is no any literature about Albanian migrations from Albania to Turkey one would reasonably assume that Albanians arrived into Turkey from somewhere else.Caucasus?
Leonidas,
What's your point. Thanasis asked for dates and places of Greek atrocities at the beginning the 20th century, and I provided them. The fact is that Albania is the only country in Balkans surrounded by Albanians(whom speak a distinguished and unique language). For a small nation that Ottoman empire didn't allow to teach and write its own language until the end of 19th century,that's quite unusual. Don't you think?
(Brandon, 16 December 2012 05:37)
My point is that Albanians present themselves as victims of ahistorical atrocities committed by other people against them when in fact the Albanian tribes have been the perpetrators themselves.Have you read about the massacres of the Greek populations on the islands of Limnos and Crete commited by the Albanian Ottoman Koprulu dynasty?Have you read about the massacre of Greek Panariots in 1821 in Constantinople committed by Albanian irregulars of the Ottoman army?Have you read of the presecusion and atrocities committed by the Albanian Al Pasha of Tepelena against the local Greek populations?What about 1941, when the Greek army pushed the Italian army back to Albania , Albanian army small units joined the Italians (with promises of annexation of Greek territory to Albania) and attacked Greece.The crimes of the Chams are well known and in my opinion they got away lightly considering that all Nazi collaborators in Europe were executed.
BTW Albanians never fought their Ottoman brothers.
(What difference does my name make!, 16 December 2012 07:44)
Very simple, Enjoy! You people need some history lesson!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani
Here is another link to help you find your way thru your own created fog!
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php
If you believe in evolution and that all people came from Africa, as an educated man you probably believe in the right of people for self-determination. This last argument, in my opinion,supersede any other one. Well since you asked about Albanians theses for Kosovo, it's very simple. Kosovo used to be inhabited by the Illyrians, and called Dardania as the name of that specific tribe. The linguistic similarities are used as evidence between pelazgians-Illyrians-Albanians. For more detailed evidence click the link.
http://www.thelosttruth.altervista.org/SitoEnglish/pelasgian_etruscan_english.html
Hundreds of year of serbian occupation determined many of the name of the places,cult objects, and many cultural aspects of the life in Kosovo, including the name. For more on this subject you can click below.
@brandon
Leonidas's point if i may speak on his behalf is that when it comes to atrocities, massacres and even genocide, Greeks have more often been the victims than the culprits of such actions. If we held a grudge against people who have harmed us in the past we would have to cut all relations with Turks, Bulgarians, Germans, Italians, Albanians and the list is endless. The fact is that Greece won its freedom in the battlefields fighting against the Ottoman Empire along with the other balkan people. The only people who were absent in that endeavour were of course the Albanians who had provided the Ottoman Empire with many of its elite members throughout the centuries. As for Albania being surrounded by Albanians, you should know that Bulgarians say exactly the same thing about their country and in general it's a commonplace when it comes to aggressive nationalism and expansionist aspirations. If you want peace in the Balkans you should stop thinking like that unless you don't live in the Balkans and you don't give a damn.
We have been over all of that sj, no need to go over it here. As for Prishtina, it's looking a whole lot better than it ever did in the 90's when Sloba ruled e roost :-) as an Aussie you can come and see for yourself
"Now since you claim to be in "Kosova"*, I'm sure you'll notice all signs are both in Albanian and Serbian."
what can I say...we're a lot more tolerant than you :-) there are signs in Italian and Albanian in the Arberesh villages, it doesn't make them Albanian run does it? As for Gracanica and the isolated Serbain enclaves, they're not a problem for the simple reason that they're surrounded by Albanians. they have no choice BUT to integrate. have you seen the population demographic of those enclaves? its populated by the elderly, the youth have left long ago. the only real challenge to Kosova's territory is the North, which is adjacent to Serbia, the rest, non issues.
As for Kosova and Albania uniting, there is no doubt that it is going to happen, most likely not in my lifetime, but it will take place. Truth is, a unification of some sort has already taken place. The border is more or less nonexistent, a great deal of communication between the two peoples has already taken place (a lot of Albanians from Albania live in Prishtina and have invested in Kosova and vice versa) and this is where it all begins. Unions do not happen because politicians tell you so, they happen when people will them.
Just a general question to all Albanians, please help me understand, you claim Kosovo and Metohija as not being Serbian but Albanian, yet the actual word "Kosovo" is a Serbian word, right? Correct me if i'm wrong, but only if you can, and please provide the Albanian meaning by definition for the actual word "Kosovo", I know what it means in Serbian, anyone can google it,, yet the the word "Kosova", which is what all Albanians and Westerners with no interest or knowledge about the subject call it, has no meaning in Albanian and is only an Albanianised translation of a Serbian word.
I dont want an imature vindictive slagfest, or tit for tat come backs, I am seeking an honest intelligent answer, surely at least one of the many Albanians who are constantly on this site can put this question to rest.
Please answer with an answer, and not another question. If you believe in Evolution- we all came from Africa, if your Religious -we are all decendants of Adem and Eve. I just want to know if Albanians were living in Kosovo for thousands of years, as they claim, where is the archeological evidence ie. castles, towns, places of worship, written script, names of ancient figures, monuments, ancient burial sites, or even stone piles and cave paintings, and also why is the name of the place an actual Serbian word. Maybe modern day Kosovo Albanians are decendants of Serbs?, or the only other possible explanation is that they migrated and overpopulated a foreign region, and are now Kosovars!
Leonidas,
What's your point. Thanasis asked for dates and places of Greek atrocities at the beginning the 20th century, and I provided them. The fact is that Albania is the only country in Balkans surrounded by Albanians(whom speak a distinguished and unique language). For a small nation that Ottoman empire didn't allow to teach and write its own language until the end of 19th century,that's quite unusual. Don't you think?
Yes it now looks like the same crap hole as parts of Sarajevo where you would think you’re in Bagdad in 5 century.
How will your Kosovo survive??????????? What industry has your beloved west brought to your Albanians??? NOTHING. You actually think they are going to allow Kosovo to join Albanian The Eu has now set up a containment area for Albanians and the Germans will dump another 200 000 soon. As one of your forthright Albanians said – these new check points look more like prisons more than anything else.
My family is from Kolonja and Permeti.
My grandfather has told us that the greek army at that time went into their christian orthodox village and slaughtered without discretion. His uncle's wife was killed with an unborn baby.
A greek soldier cut off the hand of another family member's wife in order to obtain a golden band.
Not that I care much about what happened 80 years ago, but atrocities are atrocities. Going to church helps.
The EU not very happy with most Croats in Bosnia having Croat passports. The EU really don't want 'Kosovo issue''to become more complex...
(Ron, 15 December 2012 18:32)
Ron,
Why then is the EU allowing Croatia, but not Serbia, join the EU.
BTW, many countries allow dual citizenship including the USA, so what's the problem. Doesn't Switzerland allow it? And yes, the USA, Switzerland and Albania, among 90 other countries, recognize Kosova as being a country.
Kosova is Kosova and an overwhelming number of Albanians in both Albania and Kosova want it to remain so.
Thx for your service.
Just pay a visit to Toronto Canada where I've been living for 12 years already to discover that Toronto is way more islamic.
There are some pockets for sure and Skenderaj could be one of them, but I'm sure you've tasted albanian raki almost everywhere albanian speaking lands.
@kris,
' Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo
I wonder , why my Danish colleagues in 2004 were not sold any beer in Srbica - they were told that muSSlims were living there and they did not drink alco - though there were high from drugs anyway...it is islamic tradition, altogheer wit sami lushtaku whe nhe got arrested for a while. and KiM albanians are not religious - what is that http://www.onislam.net/english/news/europe/456605-growing-religiosity-sparks-kosovo-debate.html and that http://www.enriko-waldmann.de/Bilder/2003_2004/Day_After_III/day_after_iii.html
Thanasis,
Since you appear to be Greek, here is a detailed account of May 21at 1914. It talks about by massacres that Greek Government committed in Kortcha, Bilishta,Kolonia,Leskoviq, Permetti and
Scrapari. My great grand father was murdered there.
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts20_1/AH1914_3.html
once albanians from kosovo get albanian passports, thats it, great albania is formed..how stupid can you all be..Berisha is determine to make that happen
(eric, 15 December 2012 08:13)
Well, this means the end of the prospect of Albania to join the EU then. The EU will never allow this to happen!
The EU not very happy with most Croats in Bosnia having Croat passports. The EU really don't want 'Kosovo issue''to become more complex...
I am sure as hell LIVING to SEE a free-of-Belgrade-influence Kosova (barring the North of course, for which I do not care anyway).
(Nikolle, 15 December 2012 12:49)
--
LOL! The ball really is in your court. We can't claim Albania unless you annex it to Serbia (i.e. KiM). Awaiting your next move my friend.
Now since you claim to be in "Kosova"*, I'm sure you'll notice all signs are both in Albanian and Serbian. You should visit Gracanica, which is very close to Pristina. You'll see lots of influence from Belgrade there. Don't forget to take some Serbian dinars to prove to yourself how wrong you are. Also, please be polite and respectful by speaking Serbian.
Now I'll be there next month. Did you want to catch up for some drinks? I'd like to see that newporn sign also. You know -> http://www.zaslike.com/files/sohgkf57o140xq6tb5rb.jpg
Yawn. All bluster, no action. Albanians love to shake and flex nuts they still think they have. Point a gun at them and they run in the opposite direction crying for a higher power to save them. Hiding behind someone else's protection they get brash again. It's been going on for 100 years. They're kids who constantly wish they were something other than what they are.
oh and Peggy, yes like Nokia size wise, without the sophistication however
(Nikolle, 15 December 2012 12:49)
===================================
Listen, you are either comparing something or not. Didn't you read the article? The size has increased as well as sophistication so yes I was talking about the size too.
Try not to look silly next time.
In US and all over Western Europe we live all together with no problem doesn't matter where you're from why can't you do the same thing over there, try to forget the past I know it's hard but give it a try.
There's nothing more laughable than Albanians talking about history which they hardly know. So Greece and Serbia committed massacres against albanian populations in the beginning of the 20th century. Can anyone name the years and places that those "massacres" took place? If you're referring to the Tsamides noone touched them until 1944 when they were expelled from Greece by the Greek partizans for collaborating with the Nazis and committing war crimes. The historic truth is that the albanian state was created by Italy and Austria because they wanted to reduce the power of Greece and Serbia who were the big winners of the Balkan Wars. The fact that Albania was later incorporated to the fascist Italy manifests that pretty clearly. That's history and everything else is nickel and dime youtube propaganda.
My perception was that this was a site where one can express their thoughts in English; I’m trying to comprehend what Bugar is saying, but I just cannot decipher it!
touched a nerve have I Jovan? well SUNSHINE, here i am, in Prishtina, Europe's newest capital city (or as we say over here, Albania B) and it doesn't look Serbian today and it hasn't looked Serbian for the past 13 years. so, you keep writing stuff like lough last laugh best, I am sure as hell LIVING to SEE a free-of-Belgrade-influence Kosova (barring the North of course, for which I do not care anyway). don't worry though ,i sincerely hope you have a long long life and then just before time comes to jump ship as it were, it will hit you, one of your dreams never having come true. shame isn't it?
oh and Peggy, yes like Nokia size wise, without the sophistication however
"the nations of Serbia, Greece, Montenegro and FYR Macedonia will collectively deal..."
there's a bigger chance of the Mayans being right about the end of the world then your scenario ever taking place. also, Islamist Greater Albania? its always been funny to me how those to have constructed an Albanian identity or a feeling of being Albanian have predominantly been Christian.
@Zoran,
If Albo stay in the Balkan till 2042 ( 30 more Yr.)that will be big celebration. 2-nd home Sicily was left in April 1042. At that time Albo see Balkan Durrer (Dtach)1st ime in hes life. 1-st Albo home East of Turkey is to far, 2-nd home Sicily is much beter option for Arnaut.Ooops.
Albo turn on clock for next 30yr. Time start to be counted Albo go back.
" Tirana later said his comments had a “purely historical context”."
I would call his comments 'purely historical nonsense', because there has been no Albania before WW1.
(Comm. Parrisson, 14 December 2012 20:00)
Comm. Parrison your comment is a pure nonsense. If we go in year 1800 has been no Serbia, no Greece, no Germany, no Italy etc. I tell which is historical context in this case. Serbia and Greece with massacres against Albanians and with shameful consensus of World Powers at that time, cut forcefully to the new state of Albania entire region with dominant Albanian population(Kosova,Cameria,Plave,Gucia, Ulcinj etc). How hard is for you is to accept that in 1912 Kosova was majority Albanian, Cameria was majority Albanian? Why this region was incorporated forcefuly in Serbia and Greece, Why?
@kris,
"And please do not start with the islamism stale thing. I am christian orthodox and go to church every Sunday. There's no islam in Albania. Religion is strictly a personal matter. Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo."
For 10 Yr. kids destroy over 250 church and Cementery in Kosovo and Metohia.
Adults enjoy when other kids build near 300 mosque. Nice story for “good “ Albo ???
"It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians. Different language, different customs. Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.
And please do not start with the islamism stale thing. I am christian orthodox and go to church every Sunday. There's no islam in Albania. Religion is strictly a personal matter. Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo.
(kris, 14 December 2012 20:51)"
well, if "It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians." and "Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.", then why does Pristina insist on claiming North Kosovo and Strpce?
once albanians from kosovo get albanian passports, thats it, great albania is formed..how stupid can you all be..Berisha is determine to make that happen
just coming back from a party with several Albanians as guests, I am amused to read your oh so self-confident lines again... =)
you call someone sunshine in here... wow... you must be very cold-blooded.... right?
well, let me assure you, whoever you may have written to, I didn´t even take care of that actually.., but you were writing about not in his lifetime and something about nokia...well...
you might believe to be an entertainer or at least a little bit funny...but actually, you´re just displaying the average k-albanians ignorance!
you Albanians are so naive, you really think that you can get away with that illusionary greater Albania...
you will lose it all, and the more you and your socalled "statesmen" try to sell us some king-kong-phrases, the sooner it will happen.
I think we will witness it much sooner that many of you might not even realize....
but until that day, sunshine..., you may go on with your laughable chest-beatings... you know he who laughs last, laughs loudest..
So, what do you recommend? War again?
It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians. Different language, different customs. Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.
=======================================
It is you who is advocating war. How do you expect to unite "your lands"?
Nobody is going to hand it over to you but they will defend their lands from your invasion.
give-up everything,infrastructures, including the people left behind as second class citizens,their properties and all the assets,infrastructures,industries,like the telecom and the mines for nothing and have a coffee...??? does that sound reasonable or is it a theft happening before the eyes of the all world...
(Vladimir, 14 December 2012 19:39)
Vladimir,
This what happens when you lose a war. I think the Russians would agree with me based on their actions after WW II. When you lose as badly as Serbia did for its aggression of the 1990's, you must pay a heavy price.
not in your lifetime sunshine. all you can do is write about how its going to happen, you will not live to see it, so enjoy the ever shrinking Nokia, if you catch my drift
(Nikolle, 14 December 2012 22:40)
=====================
Thanks for comparing us to Nokia. Didn't expect that from an Albanian.
@Mr. Vladimir please tell me how 50,000 +/- Slav Serb settlers in Kosova are entitled to 100% of the land?
Around 1455 there were 200.000 Serbs living in Kosovo according to the Ottomans.
And Before that Kosovo was 800 years long part of Serbian/Rashian Kingdom.
Before that part of the Byzantine empire province Sirmium/Macedonia
Here Syrmium/SyrBium-- ium=ia greek M instead of B and then you have Serbia..
Do you have any source of how Slavs invaded in the Balkans?
Slavs are the first people of the Balkans.
Even before the Greeks (Nino Belov 2500 BC. 1000 years before the so called dark ages).
What did Serbs do to Kosovars?
1887 around 350.000 Serbs living in Kosovo against 160.000 Albanians.
And since then less and less Serbs and much more Albanians.
Don't take the victim role when you are not the victim..
If you want another example: Etruscan's are the same people as Serbs
They lived in western Turkey and settled in Italy.
Also many Celts lived in the Balkans.
And even back then people and nations were mixed, (Babylon 75 languages spoken).
Anyway in the past slavs were called Trachian or Sarmantian
In Germany you had the Suebi tribe living were present day Sorbs/Serbs live).
No sensable or reasonable person need to fear a united indigenous native homeland for sons and daughters of the eagle.......
(azir, 14 December 2012 21:30)
You heard what the US said. No Greater Albania. Stop your daydreaming and do what America says. Greater Albania never existed, and it will never exist. Europe is fortunate for that.
Ari Gold says
...Serbs have no ethnic hatred towards Albanians in general...
I propose this the joke(or the lie) of the week.
The reason of nationalistic retoris is that the Albanian census foung 83% declare themselfes Albanian nationality and 0.83% greek,0.02% macedonian etc.
But 14% didnt declare any nationality even thoung they were Albanian because they declare that Albanian is their prime languane in the family.
When the census was under way Red and Black Alliance( a sister of Self Deternmination movement) in Albania called all albanians not to declare any nationality in the census fearing that Berisha was making favours greek minority.
Now Berisha and other political leaders think that this 14% that didnt declare any nationality,but are extreme albanian nationalists will vote for Red and Black Allliance and since most of the voted Berisha in 2009,the person who will lose most is Berisha and his party.
Thats why he his talking about citizenship and albanian unification.
The speech that Berisha held i Vlora though,was refering the history of Proclamation of Independence of Albania where the Assambly representet all the places where the albanians where a majority at the time from Preveza to Skopje and Ulcin.Berisha mentioned that as the histiric fact which by the way in 1912 was true.
As for Kristi's comments I really agree with him.I am Albanian orthodox and Proud to be Albanian.
(kris, 14 December 2012 20:51)
“Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo” is only the aftermath of communism, but as the Saudis build more and more Mosques this will change dramatically.
When they start on people like you and as they radicalize, and they will do just that, please don’t seek asylum in Greece or Serbia, just go straight to the US and tell them about how happy you were living in a no religious society.
Are we really surprised that nationalist rhetoric comes up around election/ICTY decision making times in any nation in this part of the world. Balkane, Balkane moj! =D
"Well, if you don't like it, you will be more than welcome to return home to Turkey."
not in your lifetime sunshine. all you can do is write about how its going to happen, you will not live to see it, so enjoy the ever shrinking Nokia, if you catch my drift
This is what I call a ;"true dreamer"
(Ardi Asllani, 14 December 2012 17:15)
--
Well, if you don't like it, you will be more than welcome to return home to Turkey.
LOL oops America, looks like the monster you financed and encouraged is now getting out of hand. I agree with kris that it's not Albanians in Albania that are the problem, except for Emperor Berisha and other Hoxha-era remnants that should have been put out to pasture long ago. It's primarily Albanians in Kosovo*, Macedonia, and Presevo. Let's hope all this Albanian "patriotism" knows when to stop because if America does what it normally does, foreign policy goes from encouragement to support to disappointment to impatience to cutting of funding to recognizing the opposition to full-scale undermining via the CIA :)
vote or whatever name you're using today said, "Albanians got that nationalistic spirit due to serbian aggression or simply as a result of cause and effect."
What a crock! LOL! Always someone else is at fault. LOL!
I bet this is Milosevic channeling his propaganda thoughts to the Ambassador. Milosevic is at fault because the Albanians are never at fault-for anything.
So, what do you recommend? War again?
It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians. Different language, different customs. Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.
And please do not start with the islamism stale thing. I am christian orthodox and go to church every Sunday. There's no islam in Albania. Religion is strictly a personal matter. Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo.
Dear serbians, move on. It's all over. Let's have a coffee. Go and visit Tirana. My uncle was in Belgrade few months ago and he loved it.
(kris, 14 December 2012 19:10)
Its not the Albanians from Albania that people have a problem with. Nobody is trying to deny your peoples existence and Serbs have no ethnic hatred towards Albanians in general but every country will try to protect its territorial integrity and I don't know any self respecting person from any nationality that would be willing to part with that.
Nobody is challenging the Republic of Albania's borders. On the other hand, the Albanian population outside the homeland want to carve out the foreign countries they live in.
Despite what everybody feels they are entitle too, permanent peace should be the goal on all sides going forward. But it is not Serbs who deny Albanian existence on Kosovo i Methoija, it is the other way around and that's apparent now more than ever before.
unfortunate....LOL...imagine what would have happened if Nikolic would have said something like that,it would be all over the news ! and Berisha "move on"? really? give-up everything,infrastructures, including the people left behind as second class citizens,their properties and all the assets,infrastructures,industries,like the telecom and the mines for nothing and have a coffee...??? does that sound reasonable or is it a theft happening before the eyes of the all world...
The same people and political party who nurtured the albanian expansionism by creating a second albanian (de facto) state and continue nurturing it by acquitting Kosovar Albanians of all their war crimes now feel offended by albanian nationalistic rhetorics as if words were the problem and not their doings. What hypocrytes.
The Albanians should spend their time making their country a better place to live for the people within their boundaries and not worry about history and Kosovo
However, what they don't realise is that joining KiM with Albania will extend Serbia's borders to the Mediterranean and Adriatic seas.
(Zoran, 14 December 2012 16:42)
The US ambassador and US state department are starting to realize that Greater Albania expansionism is exactly what Nassim Taleb described when he wrote The Black Swan regarding the law of unintended consequences, in other words, you reap what you sow.
It seems the rise of Al Qaeda from US meddling in Afghanistan and Bosnia was not enough to humble US foreign policy, and they are now finally starting to figure that out.
U.S. Ambassador Alexander Arvizu has said that attempts to inflame ethnic tensions could potentially destabilize the Balkans, AP has reported.
Mhm, that is exactly what is and will happen. The nations of Serbia, Greece, Montenegro and FYR Macedonia will collectively deal with the separatist problem in their countries and put an end to this Greater Islamist Albania nonsense.
Its over boys. I hope you love Albania as much as you say you do because well . . .
His comments on Friday follow calls from a small nationalist party for a referendum on uniting Albania with Kosovo.
--
I am expecting Albanian nationalism to increase and why shouldn't it? With US help, both Albanians and Croatians have become increasingly nationalistic. Their crimes and genocide have been covered up so the territories they occupy are mostly pure.
However, what they don't realise is that joining KiM with Albania will extend Serbia's borders to the Mediterranean and Adriatic seas.
This is quite ironic seeing as the US is hugely responsible for it, mainly by giving them a chunk of Serbia's territory to practice ethnic cleansing and strengthen these feelings.
His comments on Friday follow calls from a small nationalist party for a referendum on uniting Albania with Kosovo.
--
I am expecting Albanian nationalism to increase and why shouldn't it? With US help, both Albanians and Croatians have become increasingly nationalistic. Their crimes and genocide have been covered up so the territories they occupy are mostly pure.
However, what they don't realise is that joining KiM with Albania will extend Serbia's borders to the Mediterranean and Adriatic seas.
U.S. Ambassador Alexander Arvizu has said that attempts to inflame ethnic tensions could potentially destabilize the Balkans, AP has reported.
Mhm, that is exactly what is and will happen. The nations of Serbia, Greece, Montenegro and FYR Macedonia will collectively deal with the separatist problem in their countries and put an end to this Greater Islamist Albania nonsense.
Its over boys. I hope you love Albania as much as you say you do because well . . .
This is quite ironic seeing as the US is hugely responsible for it, mainly by giving them a chunk of Serbia's territory to practice ethnic cleansing and strengthen these feelings.
The US ambassador and US state department are starting to realize that Greater Albania expansionism is exactly what Nassim Taleb described when he wrote The Black Swan regarding the law of unintended consequences, in other words, you reap what you sow.
It seems the rise of Al Qaeda from US meddling in Afghanistan and Bosnia was not enough to humble US foreign policy, and they are now finally starting to figure that out.
Dear serbians, move on. It's all over. Let's have a coffee. Go and visit Tirana. My uncle was in Belgrade few months ago and he loved it.
(kris, 14 December 2012 19:10)
Its not the Albanians from Albania that people have a problem with. Nobody is trying to deny your peoples existence and Serbs have no ethnic hatred towards Albanians in general but every country will try to protect its territorial integrity and I don't know any self respecting person from any nationality that would be willing to part with that.
Nobody is challenging the Republic of Albania's borders. On the other hand, the Albanian population outside the homeland want to carve out the foreign countries they live in.
Despite what everybody feels they are entitle too, permanent peace should be the goal on all sides going forward. But it is not Serbs who deny Albanian existence on Kosovo i Methoija, it is the other way around and that's apparent now more than ever before.
The same people and political party who nurtured the albanian expansionism by creating a second albanian (de facto) state and continue nurturing it by acquitting Kosovar Albanians of all their war crimes now feel offended by albanian nationalistic rhetorics as if words were the problem and not their doings. What hypocrytes.
However, what they don't realise is that joining KiM with Albania will extend Serbia's borders to the Mediterranean and Adriatic seas.
(Zoran, 14 December 2012 16:42)
The Albanians should spend their time making their country a better place to live for the people within their boundaries and not worry about history and Kosovo
unfortunate....LOL...imagine what would have happened if Nikolic would have said something like that,it would be all over the news ! and Berisha "move on"? really? give-up everything,infrastructures, including the people left behind as second class citizens,their properties and all the assets,infrastructures,industries,like the telecom and the mines for nothing and have a coffee...??? does that sound reasonable or is it a theft happening before the eyes of the all world...
LOL oops America, looks like the monster you financed and encouraged is now getting out of hand. I agree with kris that it's not Albanians in Albania that are the problem, except for Emperor Berisha and other Hoxha-era remnants that should have been put out to pasture long ago. It's primarily Albanians in Kosovo*, Macedonia, and Presevo. Let's hope all this Albanian "patriotism" knows when to stop because if America does what it normally does, foreign policy goes from encouragement to support to disappointment to impatience to cutting of funding to recognizing the opposition to full-scale undermining via the CIA :)
This is what I call a ;"true dreamer"
(Ardi Asllani, 14 December 2012 17:15)
--
Well, if you don't like it, you will be more than welcome to return home to Turkey.
So, what do you recommend? War again?
It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians. Different language, different customs. Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.
And please do not start with the islamism stale thing. I am christian orthodox and go to church every Sunday. There's no islam in Albania. Religion is strictly a personal matter. Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo.
vote or whatever name you're using today said, "Albanians got that nationalistic spirit due to serbian aggression or simply as a result of cause and effect."
What a crock! LOL! Always someone else is at fault. LOL!
I bet this is Milosevic channeling his propaganda thoughts to the Ambassador. Milosevic is at fault because the Albanians are never at fault-for anything.
"Well, if you don't like it, you will be more than welcome to return home to Turkey."
not in your lifetime sunshine. all you can do is write about how its going to happen, you will not live to see it, so enjoy the ever shrinking Nokia, if you catch my drift
(kris, 14 December 2012 20:51)
“Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo” is only the aftermath of communism, but as the Saudis build more and more Mosques this will change dramatically.
When they start on people like you and as they radicalize, and they will do just that, please don’t seek asylum in Greece or Serbia, just go straight to the US and tell them about how happy you were living in a no religious society.
@kris,
"And please do not start with the islamism stale thing. I am christian orthodox and go to church every Sunday. There's no islam in Albania. Religion is strictly a personal matter. Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo."
For 10 Yr. kids destroy over 250 church and Cementery in Kosovo and Metohia.
Adults enjoy when other kids build near 300 mosque. Nice story for “good “ Albo ???
"It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians. Different language, different customs. Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.
And please do not start with the islamism stale thing. I am christian orthodox and go to church every Sunday. There's no islam in Albania. Religion is strictly a personal matter. Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo.
(kris, 14 December 2012 20:51)"
well, if "It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians." and "Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.", then why does Pristina insist on claiming North Kosovo and Strpce?
There's nothing more laughable than Albanians talking about history which they hardly know. So Greece and Serbia committed massacres against albanian populations in the beginning of the 20th century. Can anyone name the years and places that those "massacres" took place? If you're referring to the Tsamides noone touched them until 1944 when they were expelled from Greece by the Greek partizans for collaborating with the Nazis and committing war crimes. The historic truth is that the albanian state was created by Italy and Austria because they wanted to reduce the power of Greece and Serbia who were the big winners of the Balkan Wars. The fact that Albania was later incorporated to the fascist Italy manifests that pretty clearly. That's history and everything else is nickel and dime youtube propaganda.
Are we really surprised that nationalist rhetoric comes up around election/ICTY decision making times in any nation in this part of the world. Balkane, Balkane moj! =D
not in your lifetime sunshine. all you can do is write about how its going to happen, you will not live to see it, so enjoy the ever shrinking Nokia, if you catch my drift
(Nikolle, 14 December 2012 22:40)
=====================
Thanks for comparing us to Nokia. Didn't expect that from an Albanian.
oh and Peggy, yes like Nokia size wise, without the sophistication however
(Nikolle, 15 December 2012 12:49)
===================================
Listen, you are either comparing something or not. Didn't you read the article? The size has increased as well as sophistication so yes I was talking about the size too.
Try not to look silly next time.
So, what do you recommend? War again?
It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians. Different language, different customs. Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.
=======================================
It is you who is advocating war. How do you expect to unite "your lands"?
Nobody is going to hand it over to you but they will defend their lands from your invasion.
I am sure as hell LIVING to SEE a free-of-Belgrade-influence Kosova (barring the North of course, for which I do not care anyway).
(Nikolle, 15 December 2012 12:49)
--
LOL! The ball really is in your court. We can't claim Albania unless you annex it to Serbia (i.e. KiM). Awaiting your next move my friend.
Now since you claim to be in "Kosova"*, I'm sure you'll notice all signs are both in Albanian and Serbian. You should visit Gracanica, which is very close to Pristina. You'll see lots of influence from Belgrade there. Don't forget to take some Serbian dinars to prove to yourself how wrong you are. Also, please be polite and respectful by speaking Serbian.
Now I'll be there next month. Did you want to catch up for some drinks? I'd like to see that newporn sign also. You know -> http://www.zaslike.com/files/sohgkf57o140xq6tb5rb.jpg
No sensable or reasonable person need to fear a united indigenous native homeland for sons and daughters of the eagle.......
(azir, 14 December 2012 21:30)
You heard what the US said. No Greater Albania. Stop your daydreaming and do what America says. Greater Albania never existed, and it will never exist. Europe is fortunate for that.
@Mr. Vladimir please tell me how 50,000 +/- Slav Serb settlers in Kosova are entitled to 100% of the land?
Around 1455 there were 200.000 Serbs living in Kosovo according to the Ottomans.
And Before that Kosovo was 800 years long part of Serbian/Rashian Kingdom.
Before that part of the Byzantine empire province Sirmium/Macedonia
Here Syrmium/SyrBium-- ium=ia greek M instead of B and then you have Serbia..
Do you have any source of how Slavs invaded in the Balkans?
Slavs are the first people of the Balkans.
Even before the Greeks (Nino Belov 2500 BC. 1000 years before the so called dark ages).
What did Serbs do to Kosovars?
1887 around 350.000 Serbs living in Kosovo against 160.000 Albanians.
And since then less and less Serbs and much more Albanians.
Don't take the victim role when you are not the victim..
If you want another example: Etruscan's are the same people as Serbs
They lived in western Turkey and settled in Italy.
Also many Celts lived in the Balkans.
And even back then people and nations were mixed, (Babylon 75 languages spoken).
Anyway in the past slavs were called Trachian or Sarmantian
In Germany you had the Suebi tribe living were present day Sorbs/Serbs live).
just coming back from a party with several Albanians as guests, I am amused to read your oh so self-confident lines again... =)
you call someone sunshine in here... wow... you must be very cold-blooded.... right?
well, let me assure you, whoever you may have written to, I didn´t even take care of that actually.., but you were writing about not in his lifetime and something about nokia...well...
you might believe to be an entertainer or at least a little bit funny...but actually, you´re just displaying the average k-albanians ignorance!
you Albanians are so naive, you really think that you can get away with that illusionary greater Albania...
you will lose it all, and the more you and your socalled "statesmen" try to sell us some king-kong-phrases, the sooner it will happen.
I think we will witness it much sooner that many of you might not even realize....
but until that day, sunshine..., you may go on with your laughable chest-beatings... you know he who laughs last, laughs loudest..
@kris,
' Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo
I wonder , why my Danish colleagues in 2004 were not sold any beer in Srbica - they were told that muSSlims were living there and they did not drink alco - though there were high from drugs anyway...it is islamic tradition, altogheer wit sami lushtaku whe nhe got arrested for a while. and KiM albanians are not religious - what is that http://www.onislam.net/english/news/europe/456605-growing-religiosity-sparks-kosovo-debate.html and that http://www.enriko-waldmann.de/Bilder/2003_2004/Day_After_III/day_after_iii.html
" Tirana later said his comments had a “purely historical context”."
I would call his comments 'purely historical nonsense', because there has been no Albania before WW1.
(Comm. Parrisson, 14 December 2012 20:00)
Comm. Parrison your comment is a pure nonsense. If we go in year 1800 has been no Serbia, no Greece, no Germany, no Italy etc. I tell which is historical context in this case. Serbia and Greece with massacres against Albanians and with shameful consensus of World Powers at that time, cut forcefully to the new state of Albania entire region with dominant Albanian population(Kosova,Cameria,Plave,Gucia, Ulcinj etc). How hard is for you is to accept that in 1912 Kosova was majority Albanian, Cameria was majority Albanian? Why this region was incorporated forcefuly in Serbia and Greece, Why?
touched a nerve have I Jovan? well SUNSHINE, here i am, in Prishtina, Europe's newest capital city (or as we say over here, Albania B) and it doesn't look Serbian today and it hasn't looked Serbian for the past 13 years. so, you keep writing stuff like lough last laugh best, I am sure as hell LIVING to SEE a free-of-Belgrade-influence Kosova (barring the North of course, for which I do not care anyway). don't worry though ,i sincerely hope you have a long long life and then just before time comes to jump ship as it were, it will hit you, one of your dreams never having come true. shame isn't it?
oh and Peggy, yes like Nokia size wise, without the sophistication however
Yawn. All bluster, no action. Albanians love to shake and flex nuts they still think they have. Point a gun at them and they run in the opposite direction crying for a higher power to save them. Hiding behind someone else's protection they get brash again. It's been going on for 100 years. They're kids who constantly wish they were something other than what they are.
once albanians from kosovo get albanian passports, thats it, great albania is formed..how stupid can you all be..Berisha is determine to make that happen
(eric, 15 December 2012 08:13)
Well, this means the end of the prospect of Albania to join the EU then. The EU will never allow this to happen!
The EU not very happy with most Croats in Bosnia having Croat passports. The EU really don't want 'Kosovo issue''to become more complex...
Thanasis,
Since you appear to be Greek, here is a detailed account of May 21at 1914. It talks about by massacres that Greek Government committed in Kortcha, Bilishta,Kolonia,Leskoviq, Permetti and
Scrapari. My great grand father was murdered there.
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts20_1/AH1914_3.html
Ari Gold says
...Serbs have no ethnic hatred towards Albanians in general...
I propose this the joke(or the lie) of the week.
The reason of nationalistic retoris is that the Albanian census foung 83% declare themselfes Albanian nationality and 0.83% greek,0.02% macedonian etc.
But 14% didnt declare any nationality even thoung they were Albanian because they declare that Albanian is their prime languane in the family.
When the census was under way Red and Black Alliance( a sister of Self Deternmination movement) in Albania called all albanians not to declare any nationality in the census fearing that Berisha was making favours greek minority.
Now Berisha and other political leaders think that this 14% that didnt declare any nationality,but are extreme albanian nationalists will vote for Red and Black Allliance and since most of the voted Berisha in 2009,the person who will lose most is Berisha and his party.
Thats why he his talking about citizenship and albanian unification.
The speech that Berisha held i Vlora though,was refering the history of Proclamation of Independence of Albania where the Assambly representet all the places where the albanians where a majority at the time from Preveza to Skopje and Ulcin.Berisha mentioned that as the histiric fact which by the way in 1912 was true.
As for Kristi's comments I really agree with him.I am Albanian orthodox and Proud to be Albanian.
Thx for your service.
Just pay a visit to Toronto Canada where I've been living for 12 years already to discover that Toronto is way more islamic.
There are some pockets for sure and Skenderaj could be one of them, but I'm sure you've tasted albanian raki almost everywhere albanian speaking lands.
My family is from Kolonja and Permeti.
My grandfather has told us that the greek army at that time went into their christian orthodox village and slaughtered without discretion. His uncle's wife was killed with an unborn baby.
A greek soldier cut off the hand of another family member's wife in order to obtain a golden band.
Not that I care much about what happened 80 years ago, but atrocities are atrocities. Going to church helps.
once albanians from kosovo get albanian passports, thats it, great albania is formed..how stupid can you all be..Berisha is determine to make that happen
@Zoran,
If Albo stay in the Balkan till 2042 ( 30 more Yr.)that will be big celebration. 2-nd home Sicily was left in April 1042. At that time Albo see Balkan Durrer (Dtach)1st ime in hes life. 1-st Albo home East of Turkey is to far, 2-nd home Sicily is much beter option for Arnaut.Ooops.
Albo turn on clock for next 30yr. Time start to be counted Albo go back.
The EU not very happy with most Croats in Bosnia having Croat passports. The EU really don't want 'Kosovo issue''to become more complex...
(Ron, 15 December 2012 18:32)
Ron,
Why then is the EU allowing Croatia, but not Serbia, join the EU.
BTW, many countries allow dual citizenship including the USA, so what's the problem. Doesn't Switzerland allow it? And yes, the USA, Switzerland and Albania, among 90 other countries, recognize Kosova as being a country.
Kosova is Kosova and an overwhelming number of Albanians in both Albania and Kosova want it to remain so.
Just a general question to all Albanians, please help me understand, you claim Kosovo and Metohija as not being Serbian but Albanian, yet the actual word "Kosovo" is a Serbian word, right? Correct me if i'm wrong, but only if you can, and please provide the Albanian meaning by definition for the actual word "Kosovo", I know what it means in Serbian, anyone can google it,, yet the the word "Kosova", which is what all Albanians and Westerners with no interest or knowledge about the subject call it, has no meaning in Albanian and is only an Albanianised translation of a Serbian word.
I dont want an imature vindictive slagfest, or tit for tat come backs, I am seeking an honest intelligent answer, surely at least one of the many Albanians who are constantly on this site can put this question to rest.
Please answer with an answer, and not another question. If you believe in Evolution- we all came from Africa, if your Religious -we are all decendants of Adem and Eve. I just want to know if Albanians were living in Kosovo for thousands of years, as they claim, where is the archeological evidence ie. castles, towns, places of worship, written script, names of ancient figures, monuments, ancient burial sites, or even stone piles and cave paintings, and also why is the name of the place an actual Serbian word. Maybe modern day Kosovo Albanians are decendants of Serbs?, or the only other possible explanation is that they migrated and overpopulated a foreign region, and are now Kosovars!
(What difference does my name make!, 16 December 2012 07:44)
Very simple, Enjoy! You people need some history lesson!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani
Here is another link to help you find your way thru your own created fog!
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php
give-up everything,infrastructures, including the people left behind as second class citizens,their properties and all the assets,infrastructures,industries,like the telecom and the mines for nothing and have a coffee...??? does that sound reasonable or is it a theft happening before the eyes of the all world...
(Vladimir, 14 December 2012 19:39)
Vladimir,
This what happens when you lose a war. I think the Russians would agree with me based on their actions after WW II. When you lose as badly as Serbia did for its aggression of the 1990's, you must pay a heavy price.
"the nations of Serbia, Greece, Montenegro and FYR Macedonia will collectively deal..."
there's a bigger chance of the Mayans being right about the end of the world then your scenario ever taking place. also, Islamist Greater Albania? its always been funny to me how those to have constructed an Albanian identity or a feeling of being Albanian have predominantly been Christian.
My perception was that this was a site where one can express their thoughts in English; I’m trying to comprehend what Bugar is saying, but I just cannot decipher it!
Leonidas,
What's your point. Thanasis asked for dates and places of Greek atrocities at the beginning the 20th century, and I provided them. The fact is that Albania is the only country in Balkans surrounded by Albanians(whom speak a distinguished and unique language). For a small nation that Ottoman empire didn't allow to teach and write its own language until the end of 19th century,that's quite unusual. Don't you think?
(Brandon, 16 December 2012 05:37)
My point is that Albanians present themselves as victims of ahistorical atrocities committed by other people against them when in fact the Albanian tribes have been the perpetrators themselves.Have you read about the massacres of the Greek populations on the islands of Limnos and Crete commited by the Albanian Ottoman Koprulu dynasty?Have you read about the massacre of Greek Panariots in 1821 in Constantinople committed by Albanian irregulars of the Ottoman army?Have you read of the presecusion and atrocities committed by the Albanian Al Pasha of Tepelena against the local Greek populations?What about 1941, when the Greek army pushed the Italian army back to Albania , Albanian army small units joined the Italians (with promises of annexation of Greek territory to Albania) and attacked Greece.The crimes of the Chams are well known and in my opinion they got away lightly considering that all Nazi collaborators in Europe were executed.
BTW Albanians never fought their Ottoman brothers.
Very simple, Enjoy! You people need some history lesson!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani
Here is another link to help you find your way thru your own created fog!
[link]
(Rocky, 16 December 2012 14:39)
And what is the Albanian connection with the ancient Illyrians?Absolutely none.Taking into consideration that more than 5 million Albanians live in Turkey and since there is no any literature about Albanian migrations from Albania to Turkey one would reasonably assume that Albanians arrived into Turkey from somewhere else.Caucasus?
All across balkans where the former byzantine empire existed, there are slavic names of towns and cities still used.Former serbian and bulgarian empires attacked the empire and were close to invading Constantinople. They destroyed many orthodox byzantine churches on the way and renamed many places. Many of those churches were in albanian spoken lands.
As a matter of fact, FYROM claims that because of those slavic names, the province of macedonia in greece belongs to FYROM.
When the serbians or bulgarians finally withdrew, many of those names remained. Kosovo is one of them.
Where on Earth did you get this 5 mill Albanians in Turkey figure from? From what I read, there are 1.5 mill people in Turkey who claim Albanian ancestry. That's it, they're no more Albanian today than the Arbanasi of Croatia (they too have Albanian ancestry) or the Albanians of Ukraine.
As for your Ottoman brothes, well, there's no point in pretending, undoubtedly there were people of Albanian ethnicity who progressed in the ranks of the Ottoman Empire and became Grand Viziers. So were Greeks however, Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha being one of them. In fact when Constantinople was taken, it was taken through Greek mercinaries who fought on the Ottoman side. Deny it all you like, its the truth. I know you have been indoctrinated by your priests to think different, but the past is the past.
As for the origin of the Albanians, well, different ideas from different people. The majority of academics however, in fact a very large percentage of linguists, classify Albanian as an Indo European langauge, distinct from any other, so it means its not Caucasion. Most of them believe its either Thracian, Dacian or Illyrian. If you think them to be wrong, do the following, enroll to study Albanology and show where they are wrong. Dont just write things because of some misguided loyalty for your Orthodox brothers (of course many Greeks point blank refuse to see an Albanian Orthodox as an Albanian, they look at them as Greek). Bizarre
And what is the Albanian connection with the ancient Illyrians?Absolutely none.Taking into consideration that more than 5 million Albanians live in Turkey and since there is no any literature about Albanian migrations from Albania to Turkey one would reasonably assume that Albanians arrived into Turkey from somewhere else.Caucasus?
(Leonidas, 16 December 2012 16:42)
Leonidas, you should not worry yourself about us Albanians proving our ancestral roots to you, or anybody else for that matter! We have nothing to prove to anybody!! We Albanians & many others know our true ancestral roots, are of the Illyrian race!!! You however, should prove your claims to these sacred land? As for the Turks, when they invaded the Balkans they found out who we Albanians were first hand! Many other cowardly peoples of the Balkans were seeking out places to hide, while we Albanian's were in-fact one of the first to confront the Ottoman threat, head on! As for the Albanians that migrated to Turkey, the answer is very simple. The Ottoman Empire was a economic powerhouse at the time, and many Albanians migrated there for economic opportunity's! You have close to 1 million Albanians living in Greece, you also have close to 1 million Albanians living in Italy, you have nearly 1 million Albanians living in the U.S.A., how about in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, etc. Have we Albanians come from these places also, only to come and settle in the Balkans? Your argument is weak, & has NO foundation!
In US and all over Western Europe we live all together with no problem doesn't matter where you're from why can't you do the same thing over there, try to forget the past I know it's hard but give it a try.
Yes it now looks like the same crap hole as parts of Sarajevo where you would think you’re in Bagdad in 5 century.
How will your Kosovo survive??????????? What industry has your beloved west brought to your Albanians??? NOTHING. You actually think they are going to allow Kosovo to join Albanian The Eu has now set up a containment area for Albanians and the Germans will dump another 200 000 soon. As one of your forthright Albanians said – these new check points look more like prisons more than anything else.
Leonidas,
What's your point. Thanasis asked for dates and places of Greek atrocities at the beginning the 20th century, and I provided them. The fact is that Albania is the only country in Balkans surrounded by Albanians(whom speak a distinguished and unique language). For a small nation that Ottoman empire didn't allow to teach and write its own language until the end of 19th century,that's quite unusual. Don't you think?
We have been over all of that sj, no need to go over it here. As for Prishtina, it's looking a whole lot better than it ever did in the 90's when Sloba ruled e roost :-) as an Aussie you can come and see for yourself
@brandon
Leonidas's point if i may speak on his behalf is that when it comes to atrocities, massacres and even genocide, Greeks have more often been the victims than the culprits of such actions. If we held a grudge against people who have harmed us in the past we would have to cut all relations with Turks, Bulgarians, Germans, Italians, Albanians and the list is endless. The fact is that Greece won its freedom in the battlefields fighting against the Ottoman Empire along with the other balkan people. The only people who were absent in that endeavour were of course the Albanians who had provided the Ottoman Empire with many of its elite members throughout the centuries. As for Albania being surrounded by Albanians, you should know that Bulgarians say exactly the same thing about their country and in general it's a commonplace when it comes to aggressive nationalism and expansionist aspirations. If you want peace in the Balkans you should stop thinking like that unless you don't live in the Balkans and you don't give a damn.
If you believe in evolution and that all people came from Africa, as an educated man you probably believe in the right of people for self-determination. This last argument, in my opinion,supersede any other one. Well since you asked about Albanians theses for Kosovo, it's very simple. Kosovo used to be inhabited by the Illyrians, and called Dardania as the name of that specific tribe. The linguistic similarities are used as evidence between pelazgians-Illyrians-Albanians. For more detailed evidence click the link.
http://www.thelosttruth.altervista.org/SitoEnglish/pelasgian_etruscan_english.html
Hundreds of year of serbian occupation determined many of the name of the places,cult objects, and many cultural aspects of the life in Kosovo, including the name. For more on this subject you can click below.
World citizen with Albanian roots answer to origin of Kosovo
pre 11 godina
The region was populated first by the ancestors of Albanians (Dardans or Illirians). Do they have anything common with current KAlb? None knows this but the fact is that Albanians are descendants of them. Serbs came after in 5-6th century. They named the region Kosovo during the battle of Kosovo field (which was carried by Serbs and ALbanias in alliance against turks) but so did the Spanish named San Diego, San-Fran etc. Actually KAlbs have outnumbered Serbs, so have the Chinese and Indians outnumbered the rest of the world. It is not the fault of Albanians that Serbs do not reproduce. However, if you make a DNA genealogy experiment and study haplo-groups you will find that Serbs and Albanians of Kosovo have very much in common maybe more than KAlbanians and Albanians. However, is a fact that now Kosovo has more Albanians than Serbs. If you consider democracy the best system we have to govern a country, this region does not want to be under Serbia. To add to this, the fact that some serb idiots created a lot of trouble (not only for Albanians) that destroyed the only multicultural country in Europe, Yugoslavia it is loss of time to discuss the independence of Kosovo or who was first... There is a dynamics on the world borders that will continue till the humanity disappears. US did not existed at the time when the name Kosovo appeared, while the Germans were barbarians but now they are leaders of the world. Tomorrow will be China, India...
oh dear, the irony. tell me again Peggy, who is it that is responsible for the worst massacre on European soil since world war 2? i'll give you a clue, its not Albanians
@the Albanian who in all seriousness believes he has "hit a nerve"...
my dear, you may call KiM how ever you wish, it stays serbian territory, until the Serbs do not give it away. I am not exactly sure whether you understand at all what I am talking about, since ...many Albanians are leading a life I´d call rather less-influenced by morale, justice and law - and therefore you might not get it if someone tells you that you live on serbian soil.
you are free to believe and even dream of your "natural Albania" or "Albania B" ... but in the end, you are only albanian settlers on serbian land.
the consequences for you will be that most of you will have to make a decision when the time has come, and I think it won´t take that incredibly long until you Albanians will be shown where your place is.
last but not least, to answer your rather naive question, although I think you wanted to pose a "rhetorical" question though, no, you didn´t hit any nerve at all. you´re amusing me. and I think not only me.
but that´s another story.
fact is, you´ll be surprised how short-lived your littel freak-creation on our land will be and furthermore: not only you, but all of you Albanians arguing here on this site, ...you have NEVER presented any REAL facts for your claims to be the descendants of the "illyrians".. you only talk, but do not come up with hard facts.
where are those artifacts, insriptions, documents and so on? come on, boy, don´t lie to yourself, you´re humiliating yourselves...
@cj there's 1200 churches and 600 mosques in albania and they are beautifu despite the fact that 57% of albanians are muslim l. We alb Christians feel right at home with our brothers we won't be going anywhere especially NOT grease or Serbia .
"Now since you claim to be in "Kosova"*, I'm sure you'll notice all signs are both in Albanian and Serbian."
what can I say...we're a lot more tolerant than you :-) there are signs in Italian and Albanian in the Arberesh villages, it doesn't make them Albanian run does it? As for Gracanica and the isolated Serbain enclaves, they're not a problem for the simple reason that they're surrounded by Albanians. they have no choice BUT to integrate. have you seen the population demographic of those enclaves? its populated by the elderly, the youth have left long ago. the only real challenge to Kosova's territory is the North, which is adjacent to Serbia, the rest, non issues.
As for Kosova and Albania uniting, there is no doubt that it is going to happen, most likely not in my lifetime, but it will take place. Truth is, a unification of some sort has already taken place. The border is more or less nonexistent, a great deal of communication between the two peoples has already taken place (a lot of Albanians from Albania live in Prishtina and have invested in Kosova and vice versa) and this is where it all begins. Unions do not happen because politicians tell you so, they happen when people will them.
When the serbians or bulgarians finally withdrew, many of those names remained. Kosovo is one of them.
(kris, 16 December 2012 19:53)
========================
What on earth are you talking about?
Are you forgetting that Serbs were under Ottoman occupation for centuries? When did they have time then to occupy Kosovo?
This means that Kosovo was and is Serbian. When did Serbs withdraw from Kosovo leaving all Serbian names there? Was it during the Ottoman occupation that they withdrew and nobody else built anything there while they had a chance? Nobody changed any names there while they had a chance? Are you talking about the recent withdrawal due to NATO bombing?
What withdrawal are you talking about?
You hate us Albanians and that's not good for you. It's not good to hate anybody.I recommend you go to church for confession.
(kris, 16 December 2012 19:43)
==================================
Gee I wonder why there is a strong dislike of Albanians. Maybe if you Albanians stopped being expansionists and stopped grabbing land that is not yours, you would have friends. Now you only have partners in crime.
As far as going to church for confession, that's a Catholic thing but even if we Orthodox did that on regular basis like the Catholics I wouldn't recommend it. God knows what is in your heart and mind and nobody here on earth can absolve you. It is strictly for him to forgive or not to forgive.
Rocky
Thankyou for your reply,I did enjoy reading it, only problem is that it is just "SIMPLY" based on a theory from India's Dr Bhubaneshwar, rather than than factual historical evidence, but more importantly it has nothing to do with my original question. My argument is not that Sebs/Croats/Slavs did not migrate to the region(Kosovo) at some point in history but rather that there was no advanced or influental civilization inhabiting the area at the time. Dr.Bhubanshewar also states in his findings that
"The Croats and Serbs arrived in the Balkans in the 620s, a land already occupied by the Slavs"
No where in your link does it mention that Illyrians or Dardanians the indeginous inhabitants in Kosovo
Brandon
I believe that all people have the right for self determination, wholeheartedley in fact, but not when it takes away those same rights from others, not if those others are segregated in their ancestral homeland, not when slowly all of their sacred sites, heritage and history is being desecrated, erased to the point that all traces of their existance will one day be gone, and they eventually become a myth.
Illyrians did exist but as for Albanians being their direct decendants,well, I can also give you links all day long claiming otherwise, yes they were on the western coast of the adriatic and eastern tip of Italy, they were also in Bosnia and there are artifacts found in Slovenia, but NOTHING in Kosovo, and that was my question, show me the evidence found in Kosovo!
That was before the turks finished up byzantium.
You have a lot of history to read.
This is a starter only.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Uro%C5%A1_II_Milutin_of_Serbia
The school system if for brainwashing, not only in the balkans, but everywhere in the world.
oh dear, the irony. tell me again Peggy, who is it that is responsible for the worst massacre on European soil since world war 2? i'll give you a clue, its not Albanians
(Nikolle, 17 December 2012 10:39)
==========================
Not officially, no, but you are a protected species right now. Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians have been able to get away with everything so far but the truth will come out eventually.
Never forget this: Zaklela se zemlja raju da se tajne sve odaju.
All in good time.
However, what they don't realise is that joining KiM with Albania will extend Serbia's borders to the Mediterranean and Adriatic seas.
(Zoran, 14 December 2012 16:42)
U.S. Ambassador Alexander Arvizu has said that attempts to inflame ethnic tensions could potentially destabilize the Balkans, AP has reported.
Mhm, that is exactly what is and will happen. The nations of Serbia, Greece, Montenegro and FYR Macedonia will collectively deal with the separatist problem in their countries and put an end to this Greater Islamist Albania nonsense.
Its over boys. I hope you love Albania as much as you say you do because well . . .
His comments on Friday follow calls from a small nationalist party for a referendum on uniting Albania with Kosovo.
--
I am expecting Albanian nationalism to increase and why shouldn't it? With US help, both Albanians and Croatians have become increasingly nationalistic. Their crimes and genocide have been covered up so the territories they occupy are mostly pure.
However, what they don't realise is that joining KiM with Albania will extend Serbia's borders to the Mediterranean and Adriatic seas.
This is quite ironic seeing as the US is hugely responsible for it, mainly by giving them a chunk of Serbia's territory to practice ethnic cleansing and strengthen these feelings.
"Well, if you don't like it, you will be more than welcome to return home to Turkey."
not in your lifetime sunshine. all you can do is write about how its going to happen, you will not live to see it, so enjoy the ever shrinking Nokia, if you catch my drift
So, what do you recommend? War again?
It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians. Different language, different customs. Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.
And please do not start with the islamism stale thing. I am christian orthodox and go to church every Sunday. There's no islam in Albania. Religion is strictly a personal matter. Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo.
The US ambassador and US state department are starting to realize that Greater Albania expansionism is exactly what Nassim Taleb described when he wrote The Black Swan regarding the law of unintended consequences, in other words, you reap what you sow.
It seems the rise of Al Qaeda from US meddling in Afghanistan and Bosnia was not enough to humble US foreign policy, and they are now finally starting to figure that out.
The Albanians should spend their time making their country a better place to live for the people within their boundaries and not worry about history and Kosovo
This is what I call a ;"true dreamer"
(Ardi Asllani, 14 December 2012 17:15)
--
Well, if you don't like it, you will be more than welcome to return home to Turkey.
vote or whatever name you're using today said, "Albanians got that nationalistic spirit due to serbian aggression or simply as a result of cause and effect."
What a crock! LOL! Always someone else is at fault. LOL!
I bet this is Milosevic channeling his propaganda thoughts to the Ambassador. Milosevic is at fault because the Albanians are never at fault-for anything.
The same people and political party who nurtured the albanian expansionism by creating a second albanian (de facto) state and continue nurturing it by acquitting Kosovar Albanians of all their war crimes now feel offended by albanian nationalistic rhetorics as if words were the problem and not their doings. What hypocrytes.
" Tirana later said his comments had a “purely historical context”."
I would call his comments 'purely historical nonsense', because there has been no Albania before WW1.
(Comm. Parrisson, 14 December 2012 20:00)
Comm. Parrison your comment is a pure nonsense. If we go in year 1800 has been no Serbia, no Greece, no Germany, no Italy etc. I tell which is historical context in this case. Serbia and Greece with massacres against Albanians and with shameful consensus of World Powers at that time, cut forcefully to the new state of Albania entire region with dominant Albanian population(Kosova,Cameria,Plave,Gucia, Ulcinj etc). How hard is for you is to accept that in 1912 Kosova was majority Albanian, Cameria was majority Albanian? Why this region was incorporated forcefuly in Serbia and Greece, Why?
"the nations of Serbia, Greece, Montenegro and FYR Macedonia will collectively deal..."
there's a bigger chance of the Mayans being right about the end of the world then your scenario ever taking place. also, Islamist Greater Albania? its always been funny to me how those to have constructed an Albanian identity or a feeling of being Albanian have predominantly been Christian.
touched a nerve have I Jovan? well SUNSHINE, here i am, in Prishtina, Europe's newest capital city (or as we say over here, Albania B) and it doesn't look Serbian today and it hasn't looked Serbian for the past 13 years. so, you keep writing stuff like lough last laugh best, I am sure as hell LIVING to SEE a free-of-Belgrade-influence Kosova (barring the North of course, for which I do not care anyway). don't worry though ,i sincerely hope you have a long long life and then just before time comes to jump ship as it were, it will hit you, one of your dreams never having come true. shame isn't it?
oh and Peggy, yes like Nokia size wise, without the sophistication however
Dear serbians, move on. It's all over. Let's have a coffee. Go and visit Tirana. My uncle was in Belgrade few months ago and he loved it.
(kris, 14 December 2012 19:10)
Its not the Albanians from Albania that people have a problem with. Nobody is trying to deny your peoples existence and Serbs have no ethnic hatred towards Albanians in general but every country will try to protect its territorial integrity and I don't know any self respecting person from any nationality that would be willing to part with that.
Nobody is challenging the Republic of Albania's borders. On the other hand, the Albanian population outside the homeland want to carve out the foreign countries they live in.
Despite what everybody feels they are entitle too, permanent peace should be the goal on all sides going forward. But it is not Serbs who deny Albanian existence on Kosovo i Methoija, it is the other way around and that's apparent now more than ever before.
(kris, 14 December 2012 20:51)
“Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo” is only the aftermath of communism, but as the Saudis build more and more Mosques this will change dramatically.
When they start on people like you and as they radicalize, and they will do just that, please don’t seek asylum in Greece or Serbia, just go straight to the US and tell them about how happy you were living in a no religious society.
The EU not very happy with most Croats in Bosnia having Croat passports. The EU really don't want 'Kosovo issue''to become more complex...
(Ron, 15 December 2012 18:32)
Ron,
Why then is the EU allowing Croatia, but not Serbia, join the EU.
BTW, many countries allow dual citizenship including the USA, so what's the problem. Doesn't Switzerland allow it? And yes, the USA, Switzerland and Albania, among 90 other countries, recognize Kosova as being a country.
Kosova is Kosova and an overwhelming number of Albanians in both Albania and Kosova want it to remain so.
LOL oops America, looks like the monster you financed and encouraged is now getting out of hand. I agree with kris that it's not Albanians in Albania that are the problem, except for Emperor Berisha and other Hoxha-era remnants that should have been put out to pasture long ago. It's primarily Albanians in Kosovo*, Macedonia, and Presevo. Let's hope all this Albanian "patriotism" knows when to stop because if America does what it normally does, foreign policy goes from encouragement to support to disappointment to impatience to cutting of funding to recognizing the opposition to full-scale undermining via the CIA :)
give-up everything,infrastructures, including the people left behind as second class citizens,their properties and all the assets,infrastructures,industries,like the telecom and the mines for nothing and have a coffee...??? does that sound reasonable or is it a theft happening before the eyes of the all world...
(Vladimir, 14 December 2012 19:39)
Vladimir,
This what happens when you lose a war. I think the Russians would agree with me based on their actions after WW II. When you lose as badly as Serbia did for its aggression of the 1990's, you must pay a heavy price.
@Mr. Vladimir please tell me how 50,000 +/- Slav Serb settlers in Kosova are entitled to 100% of the land?
Around 1455 there were 200.000 Serbs living in Kosovo according to the Ottomans.
And Before that Kosovo was 800 years long part of Serbian/Rashian Kingdom.
Before that part of the Byzantine empire province Sirmium/Macedonia
Here Syrmium/SyrBium-- ium=ia greek M instead of B and then you have Serbia..
Do you have any source of how Slavs invaded in the Balkans?
Slavs are the first people of the Balkans.
Even before the Greeks (Nino Belov 2500 BC. 1000 years before the so called dark ages).
What did Serbs do to Kosovars?
1887 around 350.000 Serbs living in Kosovo against 160.000 Albanians.
And since then less and less Serbs and much more Albanians.
Don't take the victim role when you are not the victim..
If you want another example: Etruscan's are the same people as Serbs
They lived in western Turkey and settled in Italy.
Also many Celts lived in the Balkans.
And even back then people and nations were mixed, (Babylon 75 languages spoken).
Anyway in the past slavs were called Trachian or Sarmantian
In Germany you had the Suebi tribe living were present day Sorbs/Serbs live).
There's nothing more laughable than Albanians talking about history which they hardly know. So Greece and Serbia committed massacres against albanian populations in the beginning of the 20th century. Can anyone name the years and places that those "massacres" took place? If you're referring to the Tsamides noone touched them until 1944 when they were expelled from Greece by the Greek partizans for collaborating with the Nazis and committing war crimes. The historic truth is that the albanian state was created by Italy and Austria because they wanted to reduce the power of Greece and Serbia who were the big winners of the Balkan Wars. The fact that Albania was later incorporated to the fascist Italy manifests that pretty clearly. That's history and everything else is nickel and dime youtube propaganda.
Yawn. All bluster, no action. Albanians love to shake and flex nuts they still think they have. Point a gun at them and they run in the opposite direction crying for a higher power to save them. Hiding behind someone else's protection they get brash again. It's been going on for 100 years. They're kids who constantly wish they were something other than what they are.
unfortunate....LOL...imagine what would have happened if Nikolic would have said something like that,it would be all over the news ! and Berisha "move on"? really? give-up everything,infrastructures, including the people left behind as second class citizens,their properties and all the assets,infrastructures,industries,like the telecom and the mines for nothing and have a coffee...??? does that sound reasonable or is it a theft happening before the eyes of the all world...
Ari Gold says
...Serbs have no ethnic hatred towards Albanians in general...
I propose this the joke(or the lie) of the week.
The reason of nationalistic retoris is that the Albanian census foung 83% declare themselfes Albanian nationality and 0.83% greek,0.02% macedonian etc.
But 14% didnt declare any nationality even thoung they were Albanian because they declare that Albanian is their prime languane in the family.
When the census was under way Red and Black Alliance( a sister of Self Deternmination movement) in Albania called all albanians not to declare any nationality in the census fearing that Berisha was making favours greek minority.
Now Berisha and other political leaders think that this 14% that didnt declare any nationality,but are extreme albanian nationalists will vote for Red and Black Allliance and since most of the voted Berisha in 2009,the person who will lose most is Berisha and his party.
Thats why he his talking about citizenship and albanian unification.
The speech that Berisha held i Vlora though,was refering the history of Proclamation of Independence of Albania where the Assambly representet all the places where the albanians where a majority at the time from Preveza to Skopje and Ulcin.Berisha mentioned that as the histiric fact which by the way in 1912 was true.
As for Kristi's comments I really agree with him.I am Albanian orthodox and Proud to be Albanian.
@Zoran,
If Albo stay in the Balkan till 2042 ( 30 more Yr.)that will be big celebration. 2-nd home Sicily was left in April 1042. At that time Albo see Balkan Durrer (Dtach)1st ime in hes life. 1-st Albo home East of Turkey is to far, 2-nd home Sicily is much beter option for Arnaut.Ooops.
Albo turn on clock for next 30yr. Time start to be counted Albo go back.
In US and all over Western Europe we live all together with no problem doesn't matter where you're from why can't you do the same thing over there, try to forget the past I know it's hard but give it a try.
oh and Peggy, yes like Nokia size wise, without the sophistication however
(Nikolle, 15 December 2012 12:49)
===================================
Listen, you are either comparing something or not. Didn't you read the article? The size has increased as well as sophistication so yes I was talking about the size too.
Try not to look silly next time.
I am sure as hell LIVING to SEE a free-of-Belgrade-influence Kosova (barring the North of course, for which I do not care anyway).
(Nikolle, 15 December 2012 12:49)
--
LOL! The ball really is in your court. We can't claim Albania unless you annex it to Serbia (i.e. KiM). Awaiting your next move my friend.
Now since you claim to be in "Kosova"*, I'm sure you'll notice all signs are both in Albanian and Serbian. You should visit Gracanica, which is very close to Pristina. You'll see lots of influence from Belgrade there. Don't forget to take some Serbian dinars to prove to yourself how wrong you are. Also, please be polite and respectful by speaking Serbian.
Now I'll be there next month. Did you want to catch up for some drinks? I'd like to see that newporn sign also. You know -> http://www.zaslike.com/files/sohgkf57o140xq6tb5rb.jpg
not in your lifetime sunshine. all you can do is write about how its going to happen, you will not live to see it, so enjoy the ever shrinking Nokia, if you catch my drift
(Nikolle, 14 December 2012 22:40)
=====================
Thanks for comparing us to Nokia. Didn't expect that from an Albanian.
So, what do you recommend? War again?
It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians. Different language, different customs. Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.
=======================================
It is you who is advocating war. How do you expect to unite "your lands"?
Nobody is going to hand it over to you but they will defend their lands from your invasion.
just coming back from a party with several Albanians as guests, I am amused to read your oh so self-confident lines again... =)
you call someone sunshine in here... wow... you must be very cold-blooded.... right?
well, let me assure you, whoever you may have written to, I didn´t even take care of that actually.., but you were writing about not in his lifetime and something about nokia...well...
you might believe to be an entertainer or at least a little bit funny...but actually, you´re just displaying the average k-albanians ignorance!
you Albanians are so naive, you really think that you can get away with that illusionary greater Albania...
you will lose it all, and the more you and your socalled "statesmen" try to sell us some king-kong-phrases, the sooner it will happen.
I think we will witness it much sooner that many of you might not even realize....
but until that day, sunshine..., you may go on with your laughable chest-beatings... you know he who laughs last, laughs loudest..
once albanians from kosovo get albanian passports, thats it, great albania is formed..how stupid can you all be..Berisha is determine to make that happen
Thanasis,
Since you appear to be Greek, here is a detailed account of May 21at 1914. It talks about by massacres that Greek Government committed in Kortcha, Bilishta,Kolonia,Leskoviq, Permetti and
Scrapari. My great grand father was murdered there.
http://www.albanianhistory.net/texts20_1/AH1914_3.html
Leonidas,
What's your point. Thanasis asked for dates and places of Greek atrocities at the beginning the 20th century, and I provided them. The fact is that Albania is the only country in Balkans surrounded by Albanians(whom speak a distinguished and unique language). For a small nation that Ottoman empire didn't allow to teach and write its own language until the end of 19th century,that's quite unusual. Don't you think?
(Brandon, 16 December 2012 05:37)
My point is that Albanians present themselves as victims of ahistorical atrocities committed by other people against them when in fact the Albanian tribes have been the perpetrators themselves.Have you read about the massacres of the Greek populations on the islands of Limnos and Crete commited by the Albanian Ottoman Koprulu dynasty?Have you read about the massacre of Greek Panariots in 1821 in Constantinople committed by Albanian irregulars of the Ottoman army?Have you read of the presecusion and atrocities committed by the Albanian Al Pasha of Tepelena against the local Greek populations?What about 1941, when the Greek army pushed the Italian army back to Albania , Albanian army small units joined the Italians (with promises of annexation of Greek territory to Albania) and attacked Greece.The crimes of the Chams are well known and in my opinion they got away lightly considering that all Nazi collaborators in Europe were executed.
BTW Albanians never fought their Ottoman brothers.
@kris,
"And please do not start with the islamism stale thing. I am christian orthodox and go to church every Sunday. There's no islam in Albania. Religion is strictly a personal matter. Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo."
For 10 Yr. kids destroy over 250 church and Cementery in Kosovo and Metohia.
Adults enjoy when other kids build near 300 mosque. Nice story for “good “ Albo ???
@kris,
' Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo
I wonder , why my Danish colleagues in 2004 were not sold any beer in Srbica - they were told that muSSlims were living there and they did not drink alco - though there were high from drugs anyway...it is islamic tradition, altogheer wit sami lushtaku whe nhe got arrested for a while. and KiM albanians are not religious - what is that http://www.onislam.net/english/news/europe/456605-growing-religiosity-sparks-kosovo-debate.html and that http://www.enriko-waldmann.de/Bilder/2003_2004/Day_After_III/day_after_iii.html
Very simple, Enjoy! You people need some history lesson!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani
Here is another link to help you find your way thru your own created fog!
[link]
(Rocky, 16 December 2012 14:39)
And what is the Albanian connection with the ancient Illyrians?Absolutely none.Taking into consideration that more than 5 million Albanians live in Turkey and since there is no any literature about Albanian migrations from Albania to Turkey one would reasonably assume that Albanians arrived into Turkey from somewhere else.Caucasus?
oh dear, the irony. tell me again Peggy, who is it that is responsible for the worst massacre on European soil since world war 2? i'll give you a clue, its not Albanians
(Nikolle, 17 December 2012 10:39)
==========================
Not officially, no, but you are a protected species right now. Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians have been able to get away with everything so far but the truth will come out eventually.
Never forget this: Zaklela se zemlja raju da se tajne sve odaju.
All in good time.
Are we really surprised that nationalist rhetoric comes up around election/ICTY decision making times in any nation in this part of the world. Balkane, Balkane moj! =D
Thx for your service.
Just pay a visit to Toronto Canada where I've been living for 12 years already to discover that Toronto is way more islamic.
There are some pockets for sure and Skenderaj could be one of them, but I'm sure you've tasted albanian raki almost everywhere albanian speaking lands.
"Now since you claim to be in "Kosova"*, I'm sure you'll notice all signs are both in Albanian and Serbian."
what can I say...we're a lot more tolerant than you :-) there are signs in Italian and Albanian in the Arberesh villages, it doesn't make them Albanian run does it? As for Gracanica and the isolated Serbain enclaves, they're not a problem for the simple reason that they're surrounded by Albanians. they have no choice BUT to integrate. have you seen the population demographic of those enclaves? its populated by the elderly, the youth have left long ago. the only real challenge to Kosova's territory is the North, which is adjacent to Serbia, the rest, non issues.
As for Kosova and Albania uniting, there is no doubt that it is going to happen, most likely not in my lifetime, but it will take place. Truth is, a unification of some sort has already taken place. The border is more or less nonexistent, a great deal of communication between the two peoples has already taken place (a lot of Albanians from Albania live in Prishtina and have invested in Kosova and vice versa) and this is where it all begins. Unions do not happen because politicians tell you so, they happen when people will them.
We have been over all of that sj, no need to go over it here. As for Prishtina, it's looking a whole lot better than it ever did in the 90's when Sloba ruled e roost :-) as an Aussie you can come and see for yourself
(What difference does my name make!, 16 December 2012 07:44)
Very simple, Enjoy! You people need some history lesson!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani
Here is another link to help you find your way thru your own created fog!
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php
When the serbians or bulgarians finally withdrew, many of those names remained. Kosovo is one of them.
(kris, 16 December 2012 19:53)
========================
What on earth are you talking about?
Are you forgetting that Serbs were under Ottoman occupation for centuries? When did they have time then to occupy Kosovo?
This means that Kosovo was and is Serbian. When did Serbs withdraw from Kosovo leaving all Serbian names there? Was it during the Ottoman occupation that they withdrew and nobody else built anything there while they had a chance? Nobody changed any names there while they had a chance? Are you talking about the recent withdrawal due to NATO bombing?
What withdrawal are you talking about?
@the Albanian who in all seriousness believes he has "hit a nerve"...
my dear, you may call KiM how ever you wish, it stays serbian territory, until the Serbs do not give it away. I am not exactly sure whether you understand at all what I am talking about, since ...many Albanians are leading a life I´d call rather less-influenced by morale, justice and law - and therefore you might not get it if someone tells you that you live on serbian soil.
you are free to believe and even dream of your "natural Albania" or "Albania B" ... but in the end, you are only albanian settlers on serbian land.
the consequences for you will be that most of you will have to make a decision when the time has come, and I think it won´t take that incredibly long until you Albanians will be shown where your place is.
last but not least, to answer your rather naive question, although I think you wanted to pose a "rhetorical" question though, no, you didn´t hit any nerve at all. you´re amusing me. and I think not only me.
but that´s another story.
fact is, you´ll be surprised how short-lived your littel freak-creation on our land will be and furthermore: not only you, but all of you Albanians arguing here on this site, ...you have NEVER presented any REAL facts for your claims to be the descendants of the "illyrians".. you only talk, but do not come up with hard facts.
where are those artifacts, insriptions, documents and so on? come on, boy, don´t lie to yourself, you´re humiliating yourselves...
No sensable or reasonable person need to fear a united indigenous native homeland for sons and daughters of the eagle.......
(azir, 14 December 2012 21:30)
You heard what the US said. No Greater Albania. Stop your daydreaming and do what America says. Greater Albania never existed, and it will never exist. Europe is fortunate for that.
"It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians. Different language, different customs. Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.
And please do not start with the islamism stale thing. I am christian orthodox and go to church every Sunday. There's no islam in Albania. Religion is strictly a personal matter. Albanians have no national religious identity, both in Albania and Kosovo.
(kris, 14 December 2012 20:51)"
well, if "It's pretty clear albanians in Kosovo do not want to live with serbians." and "Separate states is way better and way more peaceful than one common boiling pot.", then why does Pristina insist on claiming North Kosovo and Strpce?
once albanians from kosovo get albanian passports, thats it, great albania is formed..how stupid can you all be..Berisha is determine to make that happen
(eric, 15 December 2012 08:13)
Well, this means the end of the prospect of Albania to join the EU then. The EU will never allow this to happen!
The EU not very happy with most Croats in Bosnia having Croat passports. The EU really don't want 'Kosovo issue''to become more complex...
Just a general question to all Albanians, please help me understand, you claim Kosovo and Metohija as not being Serbian but Albanian, yet the actual word "Kosovo" is a Serbian word, right? Correct me if i'm wrong, but only if you can, and please provide the Albanian meaning by definition for the actual word "Kosovo", I know what it means in Serbian, anyone can google it,, yet the the word "Kosova", which is what all Albanians and Westerners with no interest or knowledge about the subject call it, has no meaning in Albanian and is only an Albanianised translation of a Serbian word.
I dont want an imature vindictive slagfest, or tit for tat come backs, I am seeking an honest intelligent answer, surely at least one of the many Albanians who are constantly on this site can put this question to rest.
Please answer with an answer, and not another question. If you believe in Evolution- we all came from Africa, if your Religious -we are all decendants of Adem and Eve. I just want to know if Albanians were living in Kosovo for thousands of years, as they claim, where is the archeological evidence ie. castles, towns, places of worship, written script, names of ancient figures, monuments, ancient burial sites, or even stone piles and cave paintings, and also why is the name of the place an actual Serbian word. Maybe modern day Kosovo Albanians are decendants of Serbs?, or the only other possible explanation is that they migrated and overpopulated a foreign region, and are now Kosovars!
@brandon
Leonidas's point if i may speak on his behalf is that when it comes to atrocities, massacres and even genocide, Greeks have more often been the victims than the culprits of such actions. If we held a grudge against people who have harmed us in the past we would have to cut all relations with Turks, Bulgarians, Germans, Italians, Albanians and the list is endless. The fact is that Greece won its freedom in the battlefields fighting against the Ottoman Empire along with the other balkan people. The only people who were absent in that endeavour were of course the Albanians who had provided the Ottoman Empire with many of its elite members throughout the centuries. As for Albania being surrounded by Albanians, you should know that Bulgarians say exactly the same thing about their country and in general it's a commonplace when it comes to aggressive nationalism and expansionist aspirations. If you want peace in the Balkans you should stop thinking like that unless you don't live in the Balkans and you don't give a damn.
All across balkans where the former byzantine empire existed, there are slavic names of towns and cities still used.Former serbian and bulgarian empires attacked the empire and were close to invading Constantinople. They destroyed many orthodox byzantine churches on the way and renamed many places. Many of those churches were in albanian spoken lands.
As a matter of fact, FYROM claims that because of those slavic names, the province of macedonia in greece belongs to FYROM.
When the serbians or bulgarians finally withdrew, many of those names remained. Kosovo is one of them.
You hate us Albanians and that's not good for you. It's not good to hate anybody.I recommend you go to church for confession.
(kris, 16 December 2012 19:43)
==================================
Gee I wonder why there is a strong dislike of Albanians. Maybe if you Albanians stopped being expansionists and stopped grabbing land that is not yours, you would have friends. Now you only have partners in crime.
As far as going to church for confession, that's a Catholic thing but even if we Orthodox did that on regular basis like the Catholics I wouldn't recommend it. God knows what is in your heart and mind and nobody here on earth can absolve you. It is strictly for him to forgive or not to forgive.
And what is the Albanian connection with the ancient Illyrians?Absolutely none.Taking into consideration that more than 5 million Albanians live in Turkey and since there is no any literature about Albanian migrations from Albania to Turkey one would reasonably assume that Albanians arrived into Turkey from somewhere else.Caucasus?
(Leonidas, 16 December 2012 16:42)
Leonidas, you should not worry yourself about us Albanians proving our ancestral roots to you, or anybody else for that matter! We have nothing to prove to anybody!! We Albanians & many others know our true ancestral roots, are of the Illyrian race!!! You however, should prove your claims to these sacred land? As for the Turks, when they invaded the Balkans they found out who we Albanians were first hand! Many other cowardly peoples of the Balkans were seeking out places to hide, while we Albanian's were in-fact one of the first to confront the Ottoman threat, head on! As for the Albanians that migrated to Turkey, the answer is very simple. The Ottoman Empire was a economic powerhouse at the time, and many Albanians migrated there for economic opportunity's! You have close to 1 million Albanians living in Greece, you also have close to 1 million Albanians living in Italy, you have nearly 1 million Albanians living in the U.S.A., how about in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, etc. Have we Albanians come from these places also, only to come and settle in the Balkans? Your argument is weak, & has NO foundation!
My perception was that this was a site where one can express their thoughts in English; I’m trying to comprehend what Bugar is saying, but I just cannot decipher it!
Yes it now looks like the same crap hole as parts of Sarajevo where you would think you’re in Bagdad in 5 century.
How will your Kosovo survive??????????? What industry has your beloved west brought to your Albanians??? NOTHING. You actually think they are going to allow Kosovo to join Albanian The Eu has now set up a containment area for Albanians and the Germans will dump another 200 000 soon. As one of your forthright Albanians said – these new check points look more like prisons more than anything else.
Leonidas,
What's your point. Thanasis asked for dates and places of Greek atrocities at the beginning the 20th century, and I provided them. The fact is that Albania is the only country in Balkans surrounded by Albanians(whom speak a distinguished and unique language). For a small nation that Ottoman empire didn't allow to teach and write its own language until the end of 19th century,that's quite unusual. Don't you think?
If you believe in evolution and that all people came from Africa, as an educated man you probably believe in the right of people for self-determination. This last argument, in my opinion,supersede any other one. Well since you asked about Albanians theses for Kosovo, it's very simple. Kosovo used to be inhabited by the Illyrians, and called Dardania as the name of that specific tribe. The linguistic similarities are used as evidence between pelazgians-Illyrians-Albanians. For more detailed evidence click the link.
http://www.thelosttruth.altervista.org/SitoEnglish/pelasgian_etruscan_english.html
Hundreds of year of serbian occupation determined many of the name of the places,cult objects, and many cultural aspects of the life in Kosovo, including the name. For more on this subject you can click below.
Where on Earth did you get this 5 mill Albanians in Turkey figure from? From what I read, there are 1.5 mill people in Turkey who claim Albanian ancestry. That's it, they're no more Albanian today than the Arbanasi of Croatia (they too have Albanian ancestry) or the Albanians of Ukraine.
As for your Ottoman brothes, well, there's no point in pretending, undoubtedly there were people of Albanian ethnicity who progressed in the ranks of the Ottoman Empire and became Grand Viziers. So were Greeks however, Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha being one of them. In fact when Constantinople was taken, it was taken through Greek mercinaries who fought on the Ottoman side. Deny it all you like, its the truth. I know you have been indoctrinated by your priests to think different, but the past is the past.
As for the origin of the Albanians, well, different ideas from different people. The majority of academics however, in fact a very large percentage of linguists, classify Albanian as an Indo European langauge, distinct from any other, so it means its not Caucasion. Most of them believe its either Thracian, Dacian or Illyrian. If you think them to be wrong, do the following, enroll to study Albanology and show where they are wrong. Dont just write things because of some misguided loyalty for your Orthodox brothers (of course many Greeks point blank refuse to see an Albanian Orthodox as an Albanian, they look at them as Greek). Bizarre
oh dear, the irony. tell me again Peggy, who is it that is responsible for the worst massacre on European soil since world war 2? i'll give you a clue, its not Albanians
That was before the turks finished up byzantium.
You have a lot of history to read.
This is a starter only.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Uro%C5%A1_II_Milutin_of_Serbia
The school system if for brainwashing, not only in the balkans, but everywhere in the world.
My family is from Kolonja and Permeti.
My grandfather has told us that the greek army at that time went into their christian orthodox village and slaughtered without discretion. His uncle's wife was killed with an unborn baby.
A greek soldier cut off the hand of another family member's wife in order to obtain a golden band.
Not that I care much about what happened 80 years ago, but atrocities are atrocities. Going to church helps.
World citizen with Albanian roots answer to origin of Kosovo
pre 11 godina
The region was populated first by the ancestors of Albanians (Dardans or Illirians). Do they have anything common with current KAlb? None knows this but the fact is that Albanians are descendants of them. Serbs came after in 5-6th century. They named the region Kosovo during the battle of Kosovo field (which was carried by Serbs and ALbanias in alliance against turks) but so did the Spanish named San Diego, San-Fran etc. Actually KAlbs have outnumbered Serbs, so have the Chinese and Indians outnumbered the rest of the world. It is not the fault of Albanians that Serbs do not reproduce. However, if you make a DNA genealogy experiment and study haplo-groups you will find that Serbs and Albanians of Kosovo have very much in common maybe more than KAlbanians and Albanians. However, is a fact that now Kosovo has more Albanians than Serbs. If you consider democracy the best system we have to govern a country, this region does not want to be under Serbia. To add to this, the fact that some serb idiots created a lot of trouble (not only for Albanians) that destroyed the only multicultural country in Europe, Yugoslavia it is loss of time to discuss the independence of Kosovo or who was first... There is a dynamics on the world borders that will continue till the humanity disappears. US did not existed at the time when the name Kosovo appeared, while the Germans were barbarians but now they are leaders of the world. Tomorrow will be China, India...
Rocky
Thankyou for your reply,I did enjoy reading it, only problem is that it is just "SIMPLY" based on a theory from India's Dr Bhubaneshwar, rather than than factual historical evidence, but more importantly it has nothing to do with my original question. My argument is not that Sebs/Croats/Slavs did not migrate to the region(Kosovo) at some point in history but rather that there was no advanced or influental civilization inhabiting the area at the time. Dr.Bhubanshewar also states in his findings that
"The Croats and Serbs arrived in the Balkans in the 620s, a land already occupied by the Slavs"
No where in your link does it mention that Illyrians or Dardanians the indeginous inhabitants in Kosovo
Brandon
I believe that all people have the right for self determination, wholeheartedley in fact, but not when it takes away those same rights from others, not if those others are segregated in their ancestral homeland, not when slowly all of their sacred sites, heritage and history is being desecrated, erased to the point that all traces of their existance will one day be gone, and they eventually become a myth.
Illyrians did exist but as for Albanians being their direct decendants,well, I can also give you links all day long claiming otherwise, yes they were on the western coast of the adriatic and eastern tip of Italy, they were also in Bosnia and there are artifacts found in Slovenia, but NOTHING in Kosovo, and that was my question, show me the evidence found in Kosovo!
@cj there's 1200 churches and 600 mosques in albania and they are beautifu despite the fact that 57% of albanians are muslim l. We alb Christians feel right at home with our brothers we won't be going anywhere especially NOT grease or Serbia .
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