You're right, I am big enough to admit that I do have resentment for my enemy. Not some individuals, but as a general feeling.
Sorry but I have to say that you do lie.
You have never condemned the other sides. Show me where you have.
Writing RIP now and again is not proof of anything. I feel bad for innocent victims of whichever nationality they are too but that does not mean that I don't feel resentment when I hear the words such as Croatian, Bosniak or Albanian are uttered.
We would have to be complete monsters to hate innocent victims.
You say I only defend Serbs. You're right but show me at least one post of yours where you defend Serbs. You only ever defend Albanians and that is a fact. Prove me wrong.
So unless you can produce your post, any post, in which you condemn the actions of anyone beside Serbs you can talk till the cows come home, you are not credible.
(Peggy, 11 December 2012 21:14)
Here is a comment I wrote on B92 on 24 March 2011 when I stood up for Serbs on an article titled "Serbia marks anniversary of NATO bombing": http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=73402
Let me quote for you:
"RIP to all innocent civilians who died during the bombing campaign. I think NATO should have only bombed military and political targets, I don't understand why they would bomb civilian infrastructure such as Bridges, residential areas ect."
You on the other hand only ever defend Serbs and say bad things about everyone else. Now according to your logic, does that mean that you hate those you're critical of?
(Ian, UK, 11 December 2012 13:14)
=====================
You're right, I am big enough to admit that I do have resentment for my enemy. Not some individuals, but as a general feeling.
Sorry but I have to say that you do lie.
You have never condemned the other sides. Show me where you have.
Writing RIP now and again is not proof of anything. I feel bad for innocent victims of whichever nationality they are too but that does not mean that I don't feel resentment when I hear the words such as Croatian, Bosniak or Albanian are uttered.
We would have to be complete monsters to hate innocent victims.
You say I only defend Serbs. You're right but show me at least one post of yours where you defend Serbs. You only ever defend Albanians and that is a fact. Prove me wrong.
So unless you can produce your post, any post, in which you condemn the actions of anyone beside Serbs you can talk till the cows come home, you are not credible.
Yes I condemn Serb Politicians but never the Serbian people. Big difference.
I have always said that during the Yugoslav Wars all parites were guilty of war crimes and that all parties were victims of war crimes.
On articles where a Serb has been murdered, I comment something along the lines of "RIP I hope they catch the killers".
I have condemned the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia for bombing civilian infastructure and said that NATO should have sticked to military and political targets only.
I've always said that Northern Kosovo should be intergrated into Serbia because that is what the Serbs want.
You on the other hand only ever defend Serbs and say bad things about everyone else. Now according to your logic, does that mean that you hate those you're critical of?
If you're going to make such bold comments such as "You are anti Serb and a Serb hater", please have the decency to back up such statements and show some evidence to support your claims.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 21:30)
==============================
Are you that stupid and cannot understand what I say or you are pretending?
Let's start again.
If you look at your posts on any subject here you will see a pattern of always condemning the Serbs and NEVER EVER, condemning any of the other sides.
Now prove me wrong.
What does that say? It says that you have no objectivity and only people with ill feeling for one side have no objectivity at all.
You have never expressed disappoitment, anger or even a bad word towards any of the other sides, again prove me wrong but you have always only had bad directed at Serbs.
This is my proof. You cannot only pluck one comment. There is a pattern and that is the proof.
Do you get it now?
You are anti Serb and a Serb hater. Proof is in most of your posts.
Now go back and read them on every subject discussed here.
You are like a rat caught in a trap.
Don't worry, I don't give a damn what you feel about Serbs but at least be honest. It's so very obvious to all and yet you still try to convince us of the opposite.
Be a man, have the guts to admit the truth. Don't think that if you admit it your comments will have less value. They already don't have any value at all.
(Peggy, 10 December 2012 20:32)
See I knew you wouldn't get anywhere. I asked for you to give an example and you couldn't. You just pathetically generalised and said "most of your posts".
If you're going to make such bold comments such as "You are anti Serb and a Serb hater", please have the decency to back up such statements and show some evidence to support your claims.
I know you won't get anywhere because whenever you or Ari Gold run out of fuel, you result to calling me something along the lines of being anti-Serb or a Serb hater; scraping the barrel.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 15:19)
====================================
You are anti Serb and a Serb hater. Proof is in most of your posts.
Now go back and read them on every subject discussed here.
You are like a rat caught in a trap.
Don't worry, I don't give a damn what you feel about Serbs but at least be honest. It's so very obvious to all and yet you still try to convince us of the opposite.
Be a man, have the guts to admit the truth. Don't think that if you admit it your comments will have less value. They already don't have any value at all.
I would never hate an entire race of people, only individuals.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 12:24)
===…==
Bull. You prove that every time you come on here.
(Peggy, 10 December 2012 14:10)
No Peggy, Ian doesn't hate Serbs. He just has an extremely uninformed and completely skewed view of them that no one outside frisco could find logical. The more he argues the more ridiculous his POV is but it's fun nonetheless to read his posts since he's determined to be "right" in an internet forum. He's good entertainment :)
Bull. You prove that every time you come on here.
(Peggy, 10 December 2012 14:10)
I'll call you on that. Put your money where your mouth is and show me one example. Just one exaple.
I know you won't get anywhere because whenever you or Ari Gold run out of fuel, you result to calling me something along the lines of being anti-Serb or a Serb hater; scraping the barrel.
Congratulations to the propaganda campaign, all the way from Moscow to New York and on a Sunday when people have time to read. What happened in Bosnia and what crimes Croats and Serbs did, do not have anything incomon with Kosovo, you confuse this and try to use this when you now refer to Kosovo. Do not expect correction in Kosovo for what you have possibly lost to Bosnia and Croatia, it is not logical to claim damages from someone who was not a party to the matter. Now for the Kosovo Serbs you marginalize yourselves, it is you who do not want to live with Albanians, instead of doing whats right, apologizing for what you did to us you began a political war, and you have begun to play the victim without actually anyone threatening you. What has happened in Kosovo is that the your plan to play the victim did not go as you expected, and after everything you have done in Kosovo, you show no remorse how am i who grew up in Kosovo to be able to accept you, the best thing is that you simply leave Kosovo, because i do not want to see you murderers.
(Nori, 9 December 2012 16:03)
How could u expect us to live with you when you didnt want to live along us in Serbia?
His opinion don't mean nothing because he's leaving out the most important detail, " did other ethnicities go to belgrade to fight or vice versa"....
and he seems to forget that 1 milion plus Albanias were chased out of their homes from the Serb military and cetniks, also he forgot to mention how he felt being sieged for years in Sarajevo and what he'd done if he could to stop it.
If you want to understand the article he is writing all you have to read is what it took to stop the Serb madnes wich he rightfuly point out in the article but tries to spin it as it was bad.
(arti, 9 December 2012 17:27)
I dont really understand ur question, why would muslims and croats go to belgrade and fight when they had possible victims for slaughter (serbs)living in their own par of yugoslavia?Need I to remind you that 35%of the population in bosnia are serbs and 13%of the population in croatia were serbs before the war?
Serbs living in Serbia DIDNT GO ANYWHERE TO CONQUERE ANYONES LAND the ones who fought with the JNA in croatia did it in order to preserve their countries borders and bosnian serbs fought in bosnia and croatian serbs in croatai.
I would never hate an entire race of people, only individuals.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 12:24)
===================================
Bull. You prove that every time you come on here.
"... the vindication of the Kosovo Albanian quest for racial purity."
I love this quote. i can only guess that it means K. Albanians don't breed with any other other than a K. Albanian. yes, the gov. is now offering money to make sure we don't mingle with any of the internationals that are here
Nonsense of an opinion piece. its no ones fault that the majority of crimes were committed by Serbs. take responsibility for your own actions for once, it can't always be other people to blame
It is not true that Croats were only defending their land. They, along with Serbs, were out for territory in Bosnia from the very beginning. Do a search on the Karadjordjevo Agreement.
Good point about the local trials. The problem, in my opinion, is that more trials should have been kept at the ICTY. I don't think the legal systems in Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia and Kosovo can be trusted to do the job. However, as I said earlier, too little was invested in the ICTY from the outset, so a number of cases were returned to the regional courts. So we have a flawed system here, with only some criminals paying the price. Some of that is down to timing, as you point out. Tudjman and Izetbegovic were under investigation at the time of their deaths, and Mate Boban also died before he could be sent to The Hague.
You imply that the author of Trusted Mole, Milos Stankovic, would defend Ratko Mladic against the ICTY charges relating to Srebrenica, but that is incorrect. Stankovic and other UNPROFOR officers had plenty of unflattering things to say about Mladic, Karadzic, Tolimir and others, and anyway, Stankovic left Bosnia three months before the Srebrenica massacre. He did meet Naser Oric in Srebrenica in 1993, but wouldn't have had any way of knowing himself what Oric had or hadn't done, given that most of his work as a UN interpreter/liaison occurred in the Lasva Valley and Sarajevo. I do agree that the book is well worth reading, as it provides a pretty balanced account from a British major fluent in Serbo-Croat working closely with key individuals on all sides of the conflict. People should also read Fighting for Peace, a memoir by Stankovic's boss, General Mike Rose.
The murder of just one person is deplorable! There is no need to make up your own figures and statistics.
We all know that many innocent people were killed.
First of all we have the official number of executed men and boys in Srebrenica at 6000- 8500, and now your 10,000?, add another zero next time if it helps your demonising of all Serbian people.
Murders and massacres occurred everywhere during the wars in ex Yugoslavia, by all sides, that is one fact that can never be questioned. Don't desecrate the memory of murdered Serbs whilst at the same time dismissing those responsible for their deaths!
... and as for What Kind Of People can line up unarmed civilians and shoot them, during and also years after the wars?, Well, they would have to be the same people who are free today and running Kosovo without an ounce of shame. If you have any moral decency don't even try to argue that they are any better than those responsible for the most hideous and vile acts which occurred anywhere in the former Yugoslavia.
Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers.
(Bam Bam, 9 December 2012 23:36)
The Ustashe, whom you worship in the United States.
This guy was probably very well paid by the serbs!
(1686flame, 9 December 2012 19:00)
Try reading the article:
"I have no sympathy with the Serbs who have been convicted. On the contrary. I lived through the siege of Sarajevo. I served as a witness for the prosecution in the cases against the former Serbian president, Slobodan Milosevic, the wartime leader of the Bosnian Serbs, Radovan Karadzic, and, most recently, the Bosnian Serb military commander, Ratko Mladic, who is accused of ordering the massacre at Srebrenica.
The Serbs committed many of the war’s worst crimes, but were not at all alone, and it is not right, or useful, for them to carry the sole responsibility. Convicting only Serbs simply doesn’t make sense in terms of justice, in terms of reality, or in terms of politics."
Hold on a minute, wasn't it Slobodan Milosevic who sent tanks and troops from Serbia to invade Croatia? Didn't the cetniks slaughter Croatian troops,civilians in Vukovar? Didn't the cetnicks sing; Slobo send us salad their will be meat we will butcher Croatians?
All this was seen by the whole world and now Serbia and the Serbian people are paying for their actions.
“Haradinaj was quoted by one witness…..”. Who was the witness? His mother?
(sj, 9 December 2012 23:12)
No, his mother was not present :) But if you need more details, check paragraph 666 http://www.icty.org/x/cases/haradinaj/tjug/en/121129_judgement_en.pdf
The Serbs are such saints aren't they ! The only people that think that Serbs are the victims are the Serbs themselves. Why is it that those that lose wars always point the finger at others. Most importantly the modern whole world knows who the "sadistic killers' were. Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers. Now you tell me who are the victims ?
(Bam Bam, 9 December 2012 23:36)
# Comment link
There is only one nation that was so genocidal, so sadistic, that they even made Nazi SS officers sick, and that's quite the achievement!! Guess who that was?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Rw6A034Yfxo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRw6A034Yfxo
Yep, it's your only claim to fame Bam Bam, I hope you're proud. I personally would be very ashamed.
Milosevic argued that Albanians were leaving KiM due to NATO's bombing campaign and that he gave orders not to expel them.
(Zoran, 9 December 2012 22:23)
That point had already been determined beyond reasonable doubt by a court set up by Russia, China & co that Albanians did not leave KiM because of NATO's bombing.... sorry mate, but good try.
It is tru that hauge rolls only to punish serbs and that serbs most likely will get all the blame for everything. We have the evidence that it was committed crimes against 250 000 serbs in croatia and alot got killed in BiH, and serbia went yugoslavia helped serbians in Kosovi I M 1999. About the last one, how come crimes against serbs in KiM was commited before 99 and serbs get all the blame anyway? Thats why i think a lot on countries that Nato attack is it really 100 right what they blame it is? I mean if the world can see this unfair treatment of one nation how come they are following them? I mean if you play a the world police at least try to be neutral and stand for what you try to!! These kind of things split´s the world and makes a co-operations among the united nations very difficult. // Propaganda about serbs has to quit serbian people have suffered for almost 600 years and just imagine during these years how many got killed, why isnt anyone saying anything about that?
The Serbs are such saints aren't they ! The only people that think that Serbs are the victims are the Serbs themselves. Why is it that those that lose wars always point the finger at others. Most importantly the modern whole world knows who the "sadistic killers' were. Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers. Now you tell me who are the victims ?
(Bam Bam, 9 December 2012 23:36)
Lose wars? Oh please, not one force on the Balkans can hold a candle to Serbia's strength. Only when the strongest military alliance got involved in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo i Metohija could the Serbs even be held back.
If all three of your people collectively formed a front against Serbia but with no other outside help, Serbia would wipe the floor with her adversaries and in fact did before military intervention.
Bam bam, don't just leave out important facts because they are not convenient for you to say, your KLA terrorists were crushed by Serbia routinely, ask Adem Jashari!!!
I wonder if "Ian UK" will comment on this article or not. I doubt he's even read it because he is an Albanian apologist believes crimes against Serbs either never happened, or were completly justified.
His hatred is obvious, but finding out why then he takes time to post on B92 of all places would require extensive research and therapy to get to the root of his problem.
(Ari Gold, 9 December 2012 14:56)
I have read the article and I have read the original article also. I read it on Friday when it appeared on google news (how I discovered B92).
Here it is: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/08/opinion/global/selective-justice-for-the-balkans.html
Let me quote part of it for you.
"the fact remains that hundreds of thousands of Serbs — mostly the elderly, women and children — were ethnically cleansed from Kosovo by the Kosovar Albanians."
How can "hundreds of thousands of Serbs" been "ethnically cleansed" if there was only 194,190 Serbs in Kosovo (Source: 1991 Yugoslav Census) and in 2006 there were 140,000 Serbs on Kosovo?
I think that proves the reliability of David Harland's article.
My view of all the Yugoslav Wars is that all parties committed war crimes and all parties were victims of war crimes.
The ICTY has found people from all parties guilty and has let go/ released people from all parties including 18 Serbs, more than all the other released non-Serbs put together.
And no I don't hate Serbs.
Also why do all your comments involve me? It is rather weird.
Of course Serbs are the victims. Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians all went to Belgrade to wage war.
Wait I got that wrong. Serbs are the only thing that remains constant in all these wars. They went to Bosnia to fight and got defeated. They went to Croatia to fight and got defeated. They went to Kosova to fight and got defeated. The only thing more sorry than a loser is a sore loser.
They are welcome to live in the democratic multiethnic Kosova, if they don't like it they have Serbia. Just as the Albanians that don't like Kosova can go to Albania , or East Albania ( shkupi, Macedonia). Lol
While I understand that during a war many things are done by individuals under the banner of their particular ethnic group, the fact remains that all of the groups that sided with the US have been allowed to go free and the Serbs have been imprisoned regardless of evidence.
However, your statement about Croat commanders running mandatory sessions on the Geneva Convention would have to be a joke. I wonder if these same courses were attended by those US pilots that gunned down in the street of Bagdad innocent civilians – you know the video exposing US hypocrisy on Wikileaks???
The biggest problem of people living in the US is their utter brainwashing when it comes to US committing or being the silent partner in committing crimes – it must be in their water supply.
“Haradinaj was quoted by one witness…..”. Who was the witness? His mother?
Initially I would like to point out that this is not NYT writing news but it's on the opinion section. (One man’s opinion)
=====================================
Even if it is, it's still a word of a witness they, and I presume you, find credible enough to use as a witness against the Serbs in Hauge.
You can't have it both ways. Either you find this man's word credible and therefore accept what he says to be true here or you find him a fraud and disregard his testimony against the Serbs.
The Serbs are such saints aren't they ! The only people that think that Serbs are the victims are the Serbs themselves. Why is it that those that lose wars always point the finger at others. Most importantly the modern whole world knows who the "sadistic killers' were. Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers. Now you tell me who are the victims ?
The Croats argue that the Serbs left the Krajina at the orders of their own leaders, and evidence was presented during the generals' trials of this.
(Amer, 9 December 2012 18:03)
--
Milosevic argued that Albanians were leaving KiM due to NATO's bombing campaign and that he gave orders not to expel them. In fact, any Albanian convoys returning home had been bombed by NATO also. There was much evidence also presented by him. If Serbs where ordered to leave Croatia then why would the Croatian even need to bomb villages?
==
Serbia thus ended up with more refugees than the countries it fought, but it was spared the wholesale destruction that those countries saw.
(Amer, 9 December 2012 18:03)
--
How are you supposed to be taken seriously when you can't even get simple facts correct? Serbia wasn't even a country then and it certainly wasn't at war. Sure, it probably provided support, much like the US and Germany did, but it was Serbs from Croatia and Serbs from BiH that were defending their homes, not Serbs from Serbia.
People like Mr. Harland --who know what happened--who have first hand experience of what happened--have been saying this for years.
Trust in the Lord, not the world, and do your own work and be happy.
These people that celebrate these deceitful victories are like drunken sailors dancing on a sinking ship. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H332qsXz2k8
The truth will out. This is typical of western morality - commit horrendous crimes today - admit guilt decades or centuries later after all evidence and witnesses have been exterminated. If you refuse to believe this, go ask Native Americans if you can find any of them.
Flame, comments like yours is what is wrong wih the world. You look down a tunnel, and have bought the cool-aide the west has sold you, ignoring any oppossing views and that your convictions are incorrect, not to mention your own personal hatreds. Enjoy your bitterness and bias, in that tunnel you live in.
This guy was probably very well paid by the serbs! The truth is serbs were (and still are) the victims of THEIR OWN psychopaths that happened to be your politicians, so stop accusing everyone else.
The greatest crime that Harland accuses the Croats and the Albanians with is the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Serbs. The Croats argue that the Serbs left the Krajina at the orders of their own leaders, and evidence was presented during the generals' trials of this. The plans for Oluja provided for what was called "a humanitarian corridor" to allow people who wanted to leave, but this was hardly the same as the methods later used by Serb forces in Kosovo to expel Albanians. The Serbs who left Kosovo after the fighting stopped most surely felt threatened, but the methods used to force Croatians from the Krajina and Albanians from Kosovo were not used against them. Serbia thus ended up with more refugees than the countries it fought, but it was spared the wholesale destruction that those countries saw.
Now that the ICTY is closing down, it remains with the national courts to try those who committed the crimes that everybody agrees were committed during the fighting. Josipovic says that trials are already underway in Croatia - some are already in the automatic appeal stage, so it's premature to say that there will be no "legal reckoning." What the Serbs will not likely get is the satisfaction of having everybody agree that they behaved no worse than anybody else, which the article seems to assume was one aim of establishing the ICTY.
The Hague court is just another arm of the West in for the final solution of their Balkan project. The political, military, and financial offensives have already been accomplished, and now it's just the West's courts mopping up. The "good guys" have come to save the day from the evil Serbs, and the "bad guys" are in jail, and their country now totally dependent on foreign assistance (the West's banks). Good work America, just like in Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, and numerous places around the globe, you have brought true justice, peace, and "your" version of democracy.
Wow, even the anti-Serb New York Times feel ashamed now, finally, for their support of neo-fascist Croatia, and the Fourth Reich's plan to carve up Serbia and obliterate Serbdom. This was the rewarding of Germany's old loyal and slavish allies - Croats, Bosnian Muslims, and albanians - at the expense of a proud, free and independent Serbia who have always been on the right side of history.
I guess even the New York Times realizes that the truth always comes out in the end, and the truth will not look upon this newspaper very nicely for their support of this completely fake political kangaroo court and these dispiccable show trials.
What the so called 'civilized West' did to Serbia in the 90's is inflict another genocide on Serbs, it is a disgraceful war crime and Albright, Holbrooke, Clinton, Bliar, Genscher, Clark and the rest of the butchers are knee deep in the blood of innocent Serbs - Serbs whose only wish was to be free and independent and safe from another genocide. These war criminals will burn in hell for their crimes, there is no doubt about that. Our job is to get the truth out to the masses, because it is still being suppressed by these neoliberal war mongers and their loyal servants. With Russia rising, time is on our side, and the truth will set us free soon.
Cheers!!
B92 quotes the NYT ?!!!!!!!!! I think B92 editors should pay more attention to the Serb patriots in B92 forums who have already determined that NYT, like any other evil Western media, is a Serbs' enemy and is controlled by the evil US. B92 should rather quote independent media sources like RT and Xinhua :)
Initially I would like to point out that this is not NYT writing news but it's on the opinion section. (One man’s opinion)
Also looking at the fact that Serbian generals or politicians have been found guilty but the rest of the individuals that are non-Serbian have not, does not make too much sense.
Should we just gather up some Bosnians, Croatians or Albanians and just find them guilty just so that we can balance the number of criminals that Serbians had during the war? The truth is that Serbians are the ones that tried to ethnically kill not the other way around. Bosnians, Croatians and Albanians were only defending their land. When you find a non-Serbian that did kill individuals and can be supported by facts beyond a reasonable doubt then the court will find them guilty.
David, as a former colleague, i disagree with your comment against Mladic. He reacted to the slaying of 3,560 serb men women and children around srebrenica at the hands of Naser Oric, America's man in Bosnia. I read a book recently entitled Trusted Mole, about a UK officer deployed to Bosnia in the 90's. You should all read it.
Apart from that changes are coming to the balkans. One lastsmallconflict in northern serb part of kosovo, where no doubt the northern mayors will be blamed for human rights abuses or lack of will to pay customs and duty????
Serbs, in 2013, you will all be forced to awaken from your slumber. Your neighbors are under the control of the Germans, Americans and some British ministers who are after your natural resources...They will not change their attitude, like Kostunica believed between 2000 and 2004, simply because money and power and a bit of lobbying goes far in the UK and other.
Its your home, make it or break it. Following Konuzin comment, are there any Serbs in Serbia or are you all only concerned about your short term personal successes. I hope Vucic arrests all you sell outs and sends you all to pristina and drenica.
My diplomacy dissolved a long time ago! time for action.
There are two possible reasons why the ICTY has not been able to satisfy everybody in their trials by finding equal numbers of all ethnic communities guilty - either that they prosecute and sentence the Serbs more often and more severely than the others, or that the others - who remember were under stronger Western pressure - committed fewer crimes rising to the level that the ICTY deals with. And the Croats, of course, avoided having their head of state and highest officials at the time charged simply because they died of old age before the court could act. The Kosovar leaders understood the value of being able to maintain political support by avoiding atrocities, even though they did not have the kind of traditional military control over all fighters that is found in more formal military structures. Haradinaj was quoted by one witness as telling KLA fighters that killings had to stop, because it was weakening support for their cause; the Croatian generals ran mandatory sessions for commanders on the Geneva Conventions before Oluja.
His opinion don't mean nothing because he's leaving out the most important detail, " did other ethnicities go to belgrade to fight or vice versa"....
and he seems to forget that 1 milion plus Albanias were chased out of their homes from the Serb military and cetniks, also he forgot to mention how he felt being sieged for years in Sarajevo and what he'd done if he could to stop it.
If you want to understand the article he is writing all you have to read is what it took to stop the Serb madnes wich he rightfuly point out in the article but tries to spin it as it was bad.
The Serbs committed many of the wars worst crimes. This is so tru and that's why they get more convictions then any other part of ex-Yugo. All we did is we protected our doorstep and that's why we should not get punished for this. We did not go berserk all over Yugoslavia and kill people. This gentleman bought into Serb propaganda I guess.
“The lack of legal reckoning will once again channel grievances into the political process, laying up plenty of ammunition for further rounds of conflict. It is the opposite of what the war crimes tribunal for the former Yugoslavia was created to achieve,” he concluded.
--
Absolutely, there will be no peace in this part of Europe unless we head down the path of truth and reconciliation. New wars will brew as the geopolitical situation changes and momentum is heading in Serbia's favour.
With the last two verdicts even the doubters have finally seen the nature of this political NATO "court". It has exposed itself for what it really is while the statistics speak for themselves - 96.8% of those convicted are Serbs.
This isn't surprising for those who have researched this farce, with the initial funding coming from Soros foundations, practically all of the initial judges coming from NATO countries and a permanent US office stationed there overseeing and manipulating everything.
I think some of what Harland states is accurate, but he doesn't focus much attention on the root of the problem: that the ICTY, like many institutions created by ruling bodies, was guaranteed to be flawed from Day One. Consider all the challenges facing the tribunal: limited funding; limited knowledge of the politics, history and culture of former Yugoslavia on the part of ICTY personnel; limited interest on the part of the politicians calling for the establishment of the tribunal; limited interest on the part of those politicians' constituents; and finally, limited interest on the part of the international media. So, if the wider world had actually cared enough about the realities on the ground, maybe we would have seen more Croats, Muslims and Albanians convicted. The ICTY might have had the necessary backing, and therefore tools, to do the job right. Importantly, this would include balanced financing and sufficient checks and balances to prevent undue influence from any one poltical faction (Harland accuses the West of running the legal process to suit their political needs). Hopefully, lessons will be learned from the unbalanced nature of the ICTY, that legal experts planning future war crimes tribunals (tragically, new wars are certain to happen) will remember the world's failure to bring justice to Serbs.
Congratulations to the propaganda campaign, all the way from Moscow to New York and on a Sunday when people have time to read. What happened in Bosnia and what crimes Croats and Serbs did, do not have anything incomon with Kosovo, you confuse this and try to use this when you now refer to Kosovo. Do not expect correction in Kosovo for what you have possibly lost to Bosnia and Croatia, it is not logical to claim damages from someone who was not a party to the matter. Now for the Kosovo Serbs you marginalize yourselves, it is you who do not want to live with Albanians, instead of doing whats right, apologizing for what you did to us you began a political war, and you have begun to play the victim without actually anyone threatening you. What has happened in Kosovo is that the your plan to play the victim did not go as you expected, and after everything you have done in Kosovo, you show no remorse how am i who grew up in Kosovo to be able to accept you, the best thing is that you simply leave Kosovo, because i do not want to see you murderers.
@Ari,Your description of Ian UK and the other anti-Serb posters is 100% on the mark.Unfortunately, the end of this article is correct with regards to future conflict. The west has sown the seeds for future conflict in the Balkans as it did following WWII, its a shame how history repeats itself. Once the truth of these wars fully comes to light, and it will. There will be more conflict especially in KiM and Bosnia.
I wonder if "Ian UK" will comment on this article or not. I doubt he's even read it because he is an Albanian apologist believes crimes against Serbs either never happened, or were completly justified.
His hatred is obvious, but finding out why then he takes time to post on B92 of all places would require extensive research and therapy to get to the root of his problem.
I wonder if "Ian UK" will comment on this article or not. I doubt he's even read it because he is an Albanian apologist believes crimes against Serbs either never happened, or were completly justified.
His hatred is obvious, but finding out why then he takes time to post on B92 of all places would require extensive research and therapy to get to the root of his problem.
Wow, even the anti-Serb New York Times feel ashamed now, finally, for their support of neo-fascist Croatia, and the Fourth Reich's plan to carve up Serbia and obliterate Serbdom. This was the rewarding of Germany's old loyal and slavish allies - Croats, Bosnian Muslims, and albanians - at the expense of a proud, free and independent Serbia who have always been on the right side of history.
I guess even the New York Times realizes that the truth always comes out in the end, and the truth will not look upon this newspaper very nicely for their support of this completely fake political kangaroo court and these dispiccable show trials.
What the so called 'civilized West' did to Serbia in the 90's is inflict another genocide on Serbs, it is a disgraceful war crime and Albright, Holbrooke, Clinton, Bliar, Genscher, Clark and the rest of the butchers are knee deep in the blood of innocent Serbs - Serbs whose only wish was to be free and independent and safe from another genocide. These war criminals will burn in hell for their crimes, there is no doubt about that. Our job is to get the truth out to the masses, because it is still being suppressed by these neoliberal war mongers and their loyal servants. With Russia rising, time is on our side, and the truth will set us free soon.
Cheers!!
David, as a former colleague, i disagree with your comment against Mladic. He reacted to the slaying of 3,560 serb men women and children around srebrenica at the hands of Naser Oric, America's man in Bosnia. I read a book recently entitled Trusted Mole, about a UK officer deployed to Bosnia in the 90's. You should all read it.
Apart from that changes are coming to the balkans. One lastsmallconflict in northern serb part of kosovo, where no doubt the northern mayors will be blamed for human rights abuses or lack of will to pay customs and duty????
Serbs, in 2013, you will all be forced to awaken from your slumber. Your neighbors are under the control of the Germans, Americans and some British ministers who are after your natural resources...They will not change their attitude, like Kostunica believed between 2000 and 2004, simply because money and power and a bit of lobbying goes far in the UK and other.
Its your home, make it or break it. Following Konuzin comment, are there any Serbs in Serbia or are you all only concerned about your short term personal successes. I hope Vucic arrests all you sell outs and sends you all to pristina and drenica.
My diplomacy dissolved a long time ago! time for action.
The Hague court is just another arm of the West in for the final solution of their Balkan project. The political, military, and financial offensives have already been accomplished, and now it's just the West's courts mopping up. The "good guys" have come to save the day from the evil Serbs, and the "bad guys" are in jail, and their country now totally dependent on foreign assistance (the West's banks). Good work America, just like in Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, and numerous places around the globe, you have brought true justice, peace, and "your" version of democracy.
“The lack of legal reckoning will once again channel grievances into the political process, laying up plenty of ammunition for further rounds of conflict. It is the opposite of what the war crimes tribunal for the former Yugoslavia was created to achieve,” he concluded.
--
Absolutely, there will be no peace in this part of Europe unless we head down the path of truth and reconciliation. New wars will brew as the geopolitical situation changes and momentum is heading in Serbia's favour.
With the last two verdicts even the doubters have finally seen the nature of this political NATO "court". It has exposed itself for what it really is while the statistics speak for themselves - 96.8% of those convicted are Serbs.
This isn't surprising for those who have researched this farce, with the initial funding coming from Soros foundations, practically all of the initial judges coming from NATO countries and a permanent US office stationed there overseeing and manipulating everything.
Initially I would like to point out that this is not NYT writing news but it's on the opinion section. (One man’s opinion)
=====================================
Even if it is, it's still a word of a witness they, and I presume you, find credible enough to use as a witness against the Serbs in Hauge.
You can't have it both ways. Either you find this man's word credible and therefore accept what he says to be true here or you find him a fraud and disregard his testimony against the Serbs.
@Ari,Your description of Ian UK and the other anti-Serb posters is 100% on the mark.Unfortunately, the end of this article is correct with regards to future conflict. The west has sown the seeds for future conflict in the Balkans as it did following WWII, its a shame how history repeats itself. Once the truth of these wars fully comes to light, and it will. There will be more conflict especially in KiM and Bosnia.
B92 quotes the NYT ?!!!!!!!!! I think B92 editors should pay more attention to the Serb patriots in B92 forums who have already determined that NYT, like any other evil Western media, is a Serbs' enemy and is controlled by the evil US. B92 should rather quote independent media sources like RT and Xinhua :)
The Croats argue that the Serbs left the Krajina at the orders of their own leaders, and evidence was presented during the generals' trials of this.
(Amer, 9 December 2012 18:03)
--
Milosevic argued that Albanians were leaving KiM due to NATO's bombing campaign and that he gave orders not to expel them. In fact, any Albanian convoys returning home had been bombed by NATO also. There was much evidence also presented by him. If Serbs where ordered to leave Croatia then why would the Croatian even need to bomb villages?
==
Serbia thus ended up with more refugees than the countries it fought, but it was spared the wholesale destruction that those countries saw.
(Amer, 9 December 2012 18:03)
--
How are you supposed to be taken seriously when you can't even get simple facts correct? Serbia wasn't even a country then and it certainly wasn't at war. Sure, it probably provided support, much like the US and Germany did, but it was Serbs from Croatia and Serbs from BiH that were defending their homes, not Serbs from Serbia.
While I understand that during a war many things are done by individuals under the banner of their particular ethnic group, the fact remains that all of the groups that sided with the US have been allowed to go free and the Serbs have been imprisoned regardless of evidence.
However, your statement about Croat commanders running mandatory sessions on the Geneva Convention would have to be a joke. I wonder if these same courses were attended by those US pilots that gunned down in the street of Bagdad innocent civilians – you know the video exposing US hypocrisy on Wikileaks???
The biggest problem of people living in the US is their utter brainwashing when it comes to US committing or being the silent partner in committing crimes – it must be in their water supply.
“Haradinaj was quoted by one witness…..”. Who was the witness? His mother?
Initially I would like to point out that this is not NYT writing news but it's on the opinion section. (One man’s opinion)
Also looking at the fact that Serbian generals or politicians have been found guilty but the rest of the individuals that are non-Serbian have not, does not make too much sense.
Should we just gather up some Bosnians, Croatians or Albanians and just find them guilty just so that we can balance the number of criminals that Serbians had during the war? The truth is that Serbians are the ones that tried to ethnically kill not the other way around. Bosnians, Croatians and Albanians were only defending their land. When you find a non-Serbian that did kill individuals and can be supported by facts beyond a reasonable doubt then the court will find them guilty.
The truth will out. This is typical of western morality - commit horrendous crimes today - admit guilt decades or centuries later after all evidence and witnesses have been exterminated. If you refuse to believe this, go ask Native Americans if you can find any of them.
This guy was probably very well paid by the serbs! The truth is serbs were (and still are) the victims of THEIR OWN psychopaths that happened to be your politicians, so stop accusing everyone else.
The Serbs are such saints aren't they ! The only people that think that Serbs are the victims are the Serbs themselves. Why is it that those that lose wars always point the finger at others. Most importantly the modern whole world knows who the "sadistic killers' were. Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers. Now you tell me who are the victims ?
(Bam Bam, 9 December 2012 23:36)
# Comment link
There is only one nation that was so genocidal, so sadistic, that they even made Nazi SS officers sick, and that's quite the achievement!! Guess who that was?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Rw6A034Yfxo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRw6A034Yfxo
Yep, it's your only claim to fame Bam Bam, I hope you're proud. I personally would be very ashamed.
Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers.
(Bam Bam, 9 December 2012 23:36)
The Ustashe, whom you worship in the United States.
I think some of what Harland states is accurate, but he doesn't focus much attention on the root of the problem: that the ICTY, like many institutions created by ruling bodies, was guaranteed to be flawed from Day One. Consider all the challenges facing the tribunal: limited funding; limited knowledge of the politics, history and culture of former Yugoslavia on the part of ICTY personnel; limited interest on the part of the politicians calling for the establishment of the tribunal; limited interest on the part of those politicians' constituents; and finally, limited interest on the part of the international media. So, if the wider world had actually cared enough about the realities on the ground, maybe we would have seen more Croats, Muslims and Albanians convicted. The ICTY might have had the necessary backing, and therefore tools, to do the job right. Importantly, this would include balanced financing and sufficient checks and balances to prevent undue influence from any one poltical faction (Harland accuses the West of running the legal process to suit their political needs). Hopefully, lessons will be learned from the unbalanced nature of the ICTY, that legal experts planning future war crimes tribunals (tragically, new wars are certain to happen) will remember the world's failure to bring justice to Serbs.
The Serbs committed many of the wars worst crimes. This is so tru and that's why they get more convictions then any other part of ex-Yugo. All we did is we protected our doorstep and that's why we should not get punished for this. We did not go berserk all over Yugoslavia and kill people. This gentleman bought into Serb propaganda I guess.
Flame, comments like yours is what is wrong wih the world. You look down a tunnel, and have bought the cool-aide the west has sold you, ignoring any oppossing views and that your convictions are incorrect, not to mention your own personal hatreds. Enjoy your bitterness and bias, in that tunnel you live in.
People like Mr. Harland --who know what happened--who have first hand experience of what happened--have been saying this for years.
Trust in the Lord, not the world, and do your own work and be happy.
These people that celebrate these deceitful victories are like drunken sailors dancing on a sinking ship. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H332qsXz2k8
The Serbs are such saints aren't they ! The only people that think that Serbs are the victims are the Serbs themselves. Why is it that those that lose wars always point the finger at others. Most importantly the modern whole world knows who the "sadistic killers' were. Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers. Now you tell me who are the victims ?
Congratulations to the propaganda campaign, all the way from Moscow to New York and on a Sunday when people have time to read. What happened in Bosnia and what crimes Croats and Serbs did, do not have anything incomon with Kosovo, you confuse this and try to use this when you now refer to Kosovo. Do not expect correction in Kosovo for what you have possibly lost to Bosnia and Croatia, it is not logical to claim damages from someone who was not a party to the matter. Now for the Kosovo Serbs you marginalize yourselves, it is you who do not want to live with Albanians, instead of doing whats right, apologizing for what you did to us you began a political war, and you have begun to play the victim without actually anyone threatening you. What has happened in Kosovo is that the your plan to play the victim did not go as you expected, and after everything you have done in Kosovo, you show no remorse how am i who grew up in Kosovo to be able to accept you, the best thing is that you simply leave Kosovo, because i do not want to see you murderers.
The greatest crime that Harland accuses the Croats and the Albanians with is the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Serbs. The Croats argue that the Serbs left the Krajina at the orders of their own leaders, and evidence was presented during the generals' trials of this. The plans for Oluja provided for what was called "a humanitarian corridor" to allow people who wanted to leave, but this was hardly the same as the methods later used by Serb forces in Kosovo to expel Albanians. The Serbs who left Kosovo after the fighting stopped most surely felt threatened, but the methods used to force Croatians from the Krajina and Albanians from Kosovo were not used against them. Serbia thus ended up with more refugees than the countries it fought, but it was spared the wholesale destruction that those countries saw.
Now that the ICTY is closing down, it remains with the national courts to try those who committed the crimes that everybody agrees were committed during the fighting. Josipovic says that trials are already underway in Croatia - some are already in the automatic appeal stage, so it's premature to say that there will be no "legal reckoning." What the Serbs will not likely get is the satisfaction of having everybody agree that they behaved no worse than anybody else, which the article seems to assume was one aim of establishing the ICTY.
I would never hate an entire race of people, only individuals.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 12:24)
===================================
Bull. You prove that every time you come on here.
Bull. You prove that every time you come on here.
(Peggy, 10 December 2012 14:10)
I'll call you on that. Put your money where your mouth is and show me one example. Just one exaple.
I know you won't get anywhere because whenever you or Ari Gold run out of fuel, you result to calling me something along the lines of being anti-Serb or a Serb hater; scraping the barrel.
His opinion don't mean nothing because he's leaving out the most important detail, " did other ethnicities go to belgrade to fight or vice versa"....
and he seems to forget that 1 milion plus Albanias were chased out of their homes from the Serb military and cetniks, also he forgot to mention how he felt being sieged for years in Sarajevo and what he'd done if he could to stop it.
If you want to understand the article he is writing all you have to read is what it took to stop the Serb madnes wich he rightfuly point out in the article but tries to spin it as it was bad.
There are two possible reasons why the ICTY has not been able to satisfy everybody in their trials by finding equal numbers of all ethnic communities guilty - either that they prosecute and sentence the Serbs more often and more severely than the others, or that the others - who remember were under stronger Western pressure - committed fewer crimes rising to the level that the ICTY deals with. And the Croats, of course, avoided having their head of state and highest officials at the time charged simply because they died of old age before the court could act. The Kosovar leaders understood the value of being able to maintain political support by avoiding atrocities, even though they did not have the kind of traditional military control over all fighters that is found in more formal military structures. Haradinaj was quoted by one witness as telling KLA fighters that killings had to stop, because it was weakening support for their cause; the Croatian generals ran mandatory sessions for commanders on the Geneva Conventions before Oluja.
You are anti Serb and a Serb hater. Proof is in most of your posts.
Now go back and read them on every subject discussed here.
You are like a rat caught in a trap.
Don't worry, I don't give a damn what you feel about Serbs but at least be honest. It's so very obvious to all and yet you still try to convince us of the opposite.
Be a man, have the guts to admit the truth. Don't think that if you admit it your comments will have less value. They already don't have any value at all.
(Peggy, 10 December 2012 20:32)
See I knew you wouldn't get anywhere. I asked for you to give an example and you couldn't. You just pathetically generalised and said "most of your posts".
If you're going to make such bold comments such as "You are anti Serb and a Serb hater", please have the decency to back up such statements and show some evidence to support your claims.
Congratulations to the propaganda campaign, all the way from Moscow to New York and on a Sunday when people have time to read. What happened in Bosnia and what crimes Croats and Serbs did, do not have anything incomon with Kosovo, you confuse this and try to use this when you now refer to Kosovo. Do not expect correction in Kosovo for what you have possibly lost to Bosnia and Croatia, it is not logical to claim damages from someone who was not a party to the matter. Now for the Kosovo Serbs you marginalize yourselves, it is you who do not want to live with Albanians, instead of doing whats right, apologizing for what you did to us you began a political war, and you have begun to play the victim without actually anyone threatening you. What has happened in Kosovo is that the your plan to play the victim did not go as you expected, and after everything you have done in Kosovo, you show no remorse how am i who grew up in Kosovo to be able to accept you, the best thing is that you simply leave Kosovo, because i do not want to see you murderers.
(Nori, 9 December 2012 16:03)
How could u expect us to live with you when you didnt want to live along us in Serbia?
I know you won't get anywhere because whenever you or Ari Gold run out of fuel, you result to calling me something along the lines of being anti-Serb or a Serb hater; scraping the barrel.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 15:19)
====================================
You are anti Serb and a Serb hater. Proof is in most of your posts.
Now go back and read them on every subject discussed here.
You are like a rat caught in a trap.
Don't worry, I don't give a damn what you feel about Serbs but at least be honest. It's so very obvious to all and yet you still try to convince us of the opposite.
Be a man, have the guts to admit the truth. Don't think that if you admit it your comments will have less value. They already don't have any value at all.
The Serbs are such saints aren't they ! The only people that think that Serbs are the victims are the Serbs themselves. Why is it that those that lose wars always point the finger at others. Most importantly the modern whole world knows who the "sadistic killers' were. Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers. Now you tell me who are the victims ?
(Bam Bam, 9 December 2012 23:36)
Lose wars? Oh please, not one force on the Balkans can hold a candle to Serbia's strength. Only when the strongest military alliance got involved in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo i Metohija could the Serbs even be held back.
If all three of your people collectively formed a front against Serbia but with no other outside help, Serbia would wipe the floor with her adversaries and in fact did before military intervention.
Bam bam, don't just leave out important facts because they are not convenient for you to say, your KLA terrorists were crushed by Serbia routinely, ask Adem Jashari!!!
Nonsense of an opinion piece. its no ones fault that the majority of crimes were committed by Serbs. take responsibility for your own actions for once, it can't always be other people to blame
The murder of just one person is deplorable! There is no need to make up your own figures and statistics.
We all know that many innocent people were killed.
First of all we have the official number of executed men and boys in Srebrenica at 6000- 8500, and now your 10,000?, add another zero next time if it helps your demonising of all Serbian people.
Murders and massacres occurred everywhere during the wars in ex Yugoslavia, by all sides, that is one fact that can never be questioned. Don't desecrate the memory of murdered Serbs whilst at the same time dismissing those responsible for their deaths!
... and as for What Kind Of People can line up unarmed civilians and shoot them, during and also years after the wars?, Well, they would have to be the same people who are free today and running Kosovo without an ounce of shame. If you have any moral decency don't even try to argue that they are any better than those responsible for the most hideous and vile acts which occurred anywhere in the former Yugoslavia.
I would never hate an entire race of people, only individuals.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 12:24)
===…==
Bull. You prove that every time you come on here.
(Peggy, 10 December 2012 14:10)
No Peggy, Ian doesn't hate Serbs. He just has an extremely uninformed and completely skewed view of them that no one outside frisco could find logical. The more he argues the more ridiculous his POV is but it's fun nonetheless to read his posts since he's determined to be "right" in an internet forum. He's good entertainment :)
Of course Serbs are the victims. Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians all went to Belgrade to wage war.
Wait I got that wrong. Serbs are the only thing that remains constant in all these wars. They went to Bosnia to fight and got defeated. They went to Croatia to fight and got defeated. They went to Kosova to fight and got defeated. The only thing more sorry than a loser is a sore loser.
They are welcome to live in the democratic multiethnic Kosova, if they don't like it they have Serbia. Just as the Albanians that don't like Kosova can go to Albania , or East Albania ( shkupi, Macedonia). Lol
This guy was probably very well paid by the serbs!
(1686flame, 9 December 2012 19:00)
Try reading the article:
"I have no sympathy with the Serbs who have been convicted. On the contrary. I lived through the siege of Sarajevo. I served as a witness for the prosecution in the cases against the former Serbian president, Slobodan Milosevic, the wartime leader of the Bosnian Serbs, Radovan Karadzic, and, most recently, the Bosnian Serb military commander, Ratko Mladic, who is accused of ordering the massacre at Srebrenica.
The Serbs committed many of the war’s worst crimes, but were not at all alone, and it is not right, or useful, for them to carry the sole responsibility. Convicting only Serbs simply doesn’t make sense in terms of justice, in terms of reality, or in terms of politics."
Hold on a minute, wasn't it Slobodan Milosevic who sent tanks and troops from Serbia to invade Croatia? Didn't the cetniks slaughter Croatian troops,civilians in Vukovar? Didn't the cetnicks sing; Slobo send us salad their will be meat we will butcher Croatians?
All this was seen by the whole world and now Serbia and the Serbian people are paying for their actions.
His opinion don't mean nothing because he's leaving out the most important detail, " did other ethnicities go to belgrade to fight or vice versa"....
and he seems to forget that 1 milion plus Albanias were chased out of their homes from the Serb military and cetniks, also he forgot to mention how he felt being sieged for years in Sarajevo and what he'd done if he could to stop it.
If you want to understand the article he is writing all you have to read is what it took to stop the Serb madnes wich he rightfuly point out in the article but tries to spin it as it was bad.
(arti, 9 December 2012 17:27)
I dont really understand ur question, why would muslims and croats go to belgrade and fight when they had possible victims for slaughter (serbs)living in their own par of yugoslavia?Need I to remind you that 35%of the population in bosnia are serbs and 13%of the population in croatia were serbs before the war?
Serbs living in Serbia DIDNT GO ANYWHERE TO CONQUERE ANYONES LAND the ones who fought with the JNA in croatia did it in order to preserve their countries borders and bosnian serbs fought in bosnia and croatian serbs in croatai.
I wonder if "Ian UK" will comment on this article or not. I doubt he's even read it because he is an Albanian apologist believes crimes against Serbs either never happened, or were completly justified.
His hatred is obvious, but finding out why then he takes time to post on B92 of all places would require extensive research and therapy to get to the root of his problem.
(Ari Gold, 9 December 2012 14:56)
I have read the article and I have read the original article also. I read it on Friday when it appeared on google news (how I discovered B92).
Here it is: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/08/opinion/global/selective-justice-for-the-balkans.html
Let me quote part of it for you.
"the fact remains that hundreds of thousands of Serbs — mostly the elderly, women and children — were ethnically cleansed from Kosovo by the Kosovar Albanians."
How can "hundreds of thousands of Serbs" been "ethnically cleansed" if there was only 194,190 Serbs in Kosovo (Source: 1991 Yugoslav Census) and in 2006 there were 140,000 Serbs on Kosovo?
I think that proves the reliability of David Harland's article.
My view of all the Yugoslav Wars is that all parties committed war crimes and all parties were victims of war crimes.
The ICTY has found people from all parties guilty and has let go/ released people from all parties including 18 Serbs, more than all the other released non-Serbs put together.
And no I don't hate Serbs.
Also why do all your comments involve me? It is rather weird.
It is not true that Croats were only defending their land. They, along with Serbs, were out for territory in Bosnia from the very beginning. Do a search on the Karadjordjevo Agreement.
"... the vindication of the Kosovo Albanian quest for racial purity."
I love this quote. i can only guess that it means K. Albanians don't breed with any other other than a K. Albanian. yes, the gov. is now offering money to make sure we don't mingle with any of the internationals that are here
Yes I condemn Serb Politicians but never the Serbian people. Big difference.
I have always said that during the Yugoslav Wars all parites were guilty of war crimes and that all parties were victims of war crimes.
On articles where a Serb has been murdered, I comment something along the lines of "RIP I hope they catch the killers".
I have condemned the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia for bombing civilian infastructure and said that NATO should have sticked to military and political targets only.
I've always said that Northern Kosovo should be intergrated into Serbia because that is what the Serbs want.
You on the other hand only ever defend Serbs and say bad things about everyone else. Now according to your logic, does that mean that you hate those you're critical of?
It is tru that hauge rolls only to punish serbs and that serbs most likely will get all the blame for everything. We have the evidence that it was committed crimes against 250 000 serbs in croatia and alot got killed in BiH, and serbia went yugoslavia helped serbians in Kosovi I M 1999. About the last one, how come crimes against serbs in KiM was commited before 99 and serbs get all the blame anyway? Thats why i think a lot on countries that Nato attack is it really 100 right what they blame it is? I mean if the world can see this unfair treatment of one nation how come they are following them? I mean if you play a the world police at least try to be neutral and stand for what you try to!! These kind of things split´s the world and makes a co-operations among the united nations very difficult. // Propaganda about serbs has to quit serbian people have suffered for almost 600 years and just imagine during these years how many got killed, why isnt anyone saying anything about that?
Milosevic argued that Albanians were leaving KiM due to NATO's bombing campaign and that he gave orders not to expel them.
(Zoran, 9 December 2012 22:23)
That point had already been determined beyond reasonable doubt by a court set up by Russia, China & co that Albanians did not leave KiM because of NATO's bombing.... sorry mate, but good try.
You imply that the author of Trusted Mole, Milos Stankovic, would defend Ratko Mladic against the ICTY charges relating to Srebrenica, but that is incorrect. Stankovic and other UNPROFOR officers had plenty of unflattering things to say about Mladic, Karadzic, Tolimir and others, and anyway, Stankovic left Bosnia three months before the Srebrenica massacre. He did meet Naser Oric in Srebrenica in 1993, but wouldn't have had any way of knowing himself what Oric had or hadn't done, given that most of his work as a UN interpreter/liaison occurred in the Lasva Valley and Sarajevo. I do agree that the book is well worth reading, as it provides a pretty balanced account from a British major fluent in Serbo-Croat working closely with key individuals on all sides of the conflict. People should also read Fighting for Peace, a memoir by Stankovic's boss, General Mike Rose.
Good point about the local trials. The problem, in my opinion, is that more trials should have been kept at the ICTY. I don't think the legal systems in Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia and Kosovo can be trusted to do the job. However, as I said earlier, too little was invested in the ICTY from the outset, so a number of cases were returned to the regional courts. So we have a flawed system here, with only some criminals paying the price. Some of that is down to timing, as you point out. Tudjman and Izetbegovic were under investigation at the time of their deaths, and Mate Boban also died before he could be sent to The Hague.
“Haradinaj was quoted by one witness…..”. Who was the witness? His mother?
(sj, 9 December 2012 23:12)
No, his mother was not present :) But if you need more details, check paragraph 666 http://www.icty.org/x/cases/haradinaj/tjug/en/121129_judgement_en.pdf
If you're going to make such bold comments such as "You are anti Serb and a Serb hater", please have the decency to back up such statements and show some evidence to support your claims.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 21:30)
==============================
Are you that stupid and cannot understand what I say or you are pretending?
Let's start again.
If you look at your posts on any subject here you will see a pattern of always condemning the Serbs and NEVER EVER, condemning any of the other sides.
Now prove me wrong.
What does that say? It says that you have no objectivity and only people with ill feeling for one side have no objectivity at all.
You have never expressed disappoitment, anger or even a bad word towards any of the other sides, again prove me wrong but you have always only had bad directed at Serbs.
This is my proof. You cannot only pluck one comment. There is a pattern and that is the proof.
Do you get it now?
You're right, I am big enough to admit that I do have resentment for my enemy. Not some individuals, but as a general feeling.
Sorry but I have to say that you do lie.
You have never condemned the other sides. Show me where you have.
Writing RIP now and again is not proof of anything. I feel bad for innocent victims of whichever nationality they are too but that does not mean that I don't feel resentment when I hear the words such as Croatian, Bosniak or Albanian are uttered.
We would have to be complete monsters to hate innocent victims.
You say I only defend Serbs. You're right but show me at least one post of yours where you defend Serbs. You only ever defend Albanians and that is a fact. Prove me wrong.
So unless you can produce your post, any post, in which you condemn the actions of anyone beside Serbs you can talk till the cows come home, you are not credible.
(Peggy, 11 December 2012 21:14)
Here is a comment I wrote on B92 on 24 March 2011 when I stood up for Serbs on an article titled "Serbia marks anniversary of NATO bombing": http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=73402
Let me quote for you:
"RIP to all innocent civilians who died during the bombing campaign. I think NATO should have only bombed military and political targets, I don't understand why they would bomb civilian infrastructure such as Bridges, residential areas ect."
You on the other hand only ever defend Serbs and say bad things about everyone else. Now according to your logic, does that mean that you hate those you're critical of?
(Ian, UK, 11 December 2012 13:14)
=====================
You're right, I am big enough to admit that I do have resentment for my enemy. Not some individuals, but as a general feeling.
Sorry but I have to say that you do lie.
You have never condemned the other sides. Show me where you have.
Writing RIP now and again is not proof of anything. I feel bad for innocent victims of whichever nationality they are too but that does not mean that I don't feel resentment when I hear the words such as Croatian, Bosniak or Albanian are uttered.
We would have to be complete monsters to hate innocent victims.
You say I only defend Serbs. You're right but show me at least one post of yours where you defend Serbs. You only ever defend Albanians and that is a fact. Prove me wrong.
So unless you can produce your post, any post, in which you condemn the actions of anyone beside Serbs you can talk till the cows come home, you are not credible.
This guy was probably very well paid by the serbs! The truth is serbs were (and still are) the victims of THEIR OWN psychopaths that happened to be your politicians, so stop accusing everyone else.
Congratulations to the propaganda campaign, all the way from Moscow to New York and on a Sunday when people have time to read. What happened in Bosnia and what crimes Croats and Serbs did, do not have anything incomon with Kosovo, you confuse this and try to use this when you now refer to Kosovo. Do not expect correction in Kosovo for what you have possibly lost to Bosnia and Croatia, it is not logical to claim damages from someone who was not a party to the matter. Now for the Kosovo Serbs you marginalize yourselves, it is you who do not want to live with Albanians, instead of doing whats right, apologizing for what you did to us you began a political war, and you have begun to play the victim without actually anyone threatening you. What has happened in Kosovo is that the your plan to play the victim did not go as you expected, and after everything you have done in Kosovo, you show no remorse how am i who grew up in Kosovo to be able to accept you, the best thing is that you simply leave Kosovo, because i do not want to see you murderers.
Initially I would like to point out that this is not NYT writing news but it's on the opinion section. (One man’s opinion)
Also looking at the fact that Serbian generals or politicians have been found guilty but the rest of the individuals that are non-Serbian have not, does not make too much sense.
Should we just gather up some Bosnians, Croatians or Albanians and just find them guilty just so that we can balance the number of criminals that Serbians had during the war? The truth is that Serbians are the ones that tried to ethnically kill not the other way around. Bosnians, Croatians and Albanians were only defending their land. When you find a non-Serbian that did kill individuals and can be supported by facts beyond a reasonable doubt then the court will find them guilty.
The Serbs are such saints aren't they ! The only people that think that Serbs are the victims are the Serbs themselves. Why is it that those that lose wars always point the finger at others. Most importantly the modern whole world knows who the "sadistic killers' were. Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers. Now you tell me who are the victims ?
The Serbs committed many of the wars worst crimes. This is so tru and that's why they get more convictions then any other part of ex-Yugo. All we did is we protected our doorstep and that's why we should not get punished for this. We did not go berserk all over Yugoslavia and kill people. This gentleman bought into Serb propaganda I guess.
B92 quotes the NYT ?!!!!!!!!! I think B92 editors should pay more attention to the Serb patriots in B92 forums who have already determined that NYT, like any other evil Western media, is a Serbs' enemy and is controlled by the evil US. B92 should rather quote independent media sources like RT and Xinhua :)
His opinion don't mean nothing because he's leaving out the most important detail, " did other ethnicities go to belgrade to fight or vice versa"....
and he seems to forget that 1 milion plus Albanias were chased out of their homes from the Serb military and cetniks, also he forgot to mention how he felt being sieged for years in Sarajevo and what he'd done if he could to stop it.
If you want to understand the article he is writing all you have to read is what it took to stop the Serb madnes wich he rightfuly point out in the article but tries to spin it as it was bad.
I wonder if "Ian UK" will comment on this article or not. I doubt he's even read it because he is an Albanian apologist believes crimes against Serbs either never happened, or were completly justified.
His hatred is obvious, but finding out why then he takes time to post on B92 of all places would require extensive research and therapy to get to the root of his problem.
There are two possible reasons why the ICTY has not been able to satisfy everybody in their trials by finding equal numbers of all ethnic communities guilty - either that they prosecute and sentence the Serbs more often and more severely than the others, or that the others - who remember were under stronger Western pressure - committed fewer crimes rising to the level that the ICTY deals with. And the Croats, of course, avoided having their head of state and highest officials at the time charged simply because they died of old age before the court could act. The Kosovar leaders understood the value of being able to maintain political support by avoiding atrocities, even though they did not have the kind of traditional military control over all fighters that is found in more formal military structures. Haradinaj was quoted by one witness as telling KLA fighters that killings had to stop, because it was weakening support for their cause; the Croatian generals ran mandatory sessions for commanders on the Geneva Conventions before Oluja.
The greatest crime that Harland accuses the Croats and the Albanians with is the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Serbs. The Croats argue that the Serbs left the Krajina at the orders of their own leaders, and evidence was presented during the generals' trials of this. The plans for Oluja provided for what was called "a humanitarian corridor" to allow people who wanted to leave, but this was hardly the same as the methods later used by Serb forces in Kosovo to expel Albanians. The Serbs who left Kosovo after the fighting stopped most surely felt threatened, but the methods used to force Croatians from the Krajina and Albanians from Kosovo were not used against them. Serbia thus ended up with more refugees than the countries it fought, but it was spared the wholesale destruction that those countries saw.
Now that the ICTY is closing down, it remains with the national courts to try those who committed the crimes that everybody agrees were committed during the fighting. Josipovic says that trials are already underway in Croatia - some are already in the automatic appeal stage, so it's premature to say that there will be no "legal reckoning." What the Serbs will not likely get is the satisfaction of having everybody agree that they behaved no worse than anybody else, which the article seems to assume was one aim of establishing the ICTY.
Wow, even the anti-Serb New York Times feel ashamed now, finally, for their support of neo-fascist Croatia, and the Fourth Reich's plan to carve up Serbia and obliterate Serbdom. This was the rewarding of Germany's old loyal and slavish allies - Croats, Bosnian Muslims, and albanians - at the expense of a proud, free and independent Serbia who have always been on the right side of history.
I guess even the New York Times realizes that the truth always comes out in the end, and the truth will not look upon this newspaper very nicely for their support of this completely fake political kangaroo court and these dispiccable show trials.
What the so called 'civilized West' did to Serbia in the 90's is inflict another genocide on Serbs, it is a disgraceful war crime and Albright, Holbrooke, Clinton, Bliar, Genscher, Clark and the rest of the butchers are knee deep in the blood of innocent Serbs - Serbs whose only wish was to be free and independent and safe from another genocide. These war criminals will burn in hell for their crimes, there is no doubt about that. Our job is to get the truth out to the masses, because it is still being suppressed by these neoliberal war mongers and their loyal servants. With Russia rising, time is on our side, and the truth will set us free soon.
Cheers!!
I think some of what Harland states is accurate, but he doesn't focus much attention on the root of the problem: that the ICTY, like many institutions created by ruling bodies, was guaranteed to be flawed from Day One. Consider all the challenges facing the tribunal: limited funding; limited knowledge of the politics, history and culture of former Yugoslavia on the part of ICTY personnel; limited interest on the part of the politicians calling for the establishment of the tribunal; limited interest on the part of those politicians' constituents; and finally, limited interest on the part of the international media. So, if the wider world had actually cared enough about the realities on the ground, maybe we would have seen more Croats, Muslims and Albanians convicted. The ICTY might have had the necessary backing, and therefore tools, to do the job right. Importantly, this would include balanced financing and sufficient checks and balances to prevent undue influence from any one poltical faction (Harland accuses the West of running the legal process to suit their political needs). Hopefully, lessons will be learned from the unbalanced nature of the ICTY, that legal experts planning future war crimes tribunals (tragically, new wars are certain to happen) will remember the world's failure to bring justice to Serbs.
Nonsense of an opinion piece. its no ones fault that the majority of crimes were committed by Serbs. take responsibility for your own actions for once, it can't always be other people to blame
The Hague court is just another arm of the West in for the final solution of their Balkan project. The political, military, and financial offensives have already been accomplished, and now it's just the West's courts mopping up. The "good guys" have come to save the day from the evil Serbs, and the "bad guys" are in jail, and their country now totally dependent on foreign assistance (the West's banks). Good work America, just like in Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, and numerous places around the globe, you have brought true justice, peace, and "your" version of democracy.
David, as a former colleague, i disagree with your comment against Mladic. He reacted to the slaying of 3,560 serb men women and children around srebrenica at the hands of Naser Oric, America's man in Bosnia. I read a book recently entitled Trusted Mole, about a UK officer deployed to Bosnia in the 90's. You should all read it.
Apart from that changes are coming to the balkans. One lastsmallconflict in northern serb part of kosovo, where no doubt the northern mayors will be blamed for human rights abuses or lack of will to pay customs and duty????
Serbs, in 2013, you will all be forced to awaken from your slumber. Your neighbors are under the control of the Germans, Americans and some British ministers who are after your natural resources...They will not change their attitude, like Kostunica believed between 2000 and 2004, simply because money and power and a bit of lobbying goes far in the UK and other.
Its your home, make it or break it. Following Konuzin comment, are there any Serbs in Serbia or are you all only concerned about your short term personal successes. I hope Vucic arrests all you sell outs and sends you all to pristina and drenica.
My diplomacy dissolved a long time ago! time for action.
The Croats argue that the Serbs left the Krajina at the orders of their own leaders, and evidence was presented during the generals' trials of this.
(Amer, 9 December 2012 18:03)
--
Milosevic argued that Albanians were leaving KiM due to NATO's bombing campaign and that he gave orders not to expel them. In fact, any Albanian convoys returning home had been bombed by NATO also. There was much evidence also presented by him. If Serbs where ordered to leave Croatia then why would the Croatian even need to bomb villages?
==
Serbia thus ended up with more refugees than the countries it fought, but it was spared the wholesale destruction that those countries saw.
(Amer, 9 December 2012 18:03)
--
How are you supposed to be taken seriously when you can't even get simple facts correct? Serbia wasn't even a country then and it certainly wasn't at war. Sure, it probably provided support, much like the US and Germany did, but it was Serbs from Croatia and Serbs from BiH that were defending their homes, not Serbs from Serbia.
Bull. You prove that every time you come on here.
(Peggy, 10 December 2012 14:10)
I'll call you on that. Put your money where your mouth is and show me one example. Just one exaple.
I know you won't get anywhere because whenever you or Ari Gold run out of fuel, you result to calling me something along the lines of being anti-Serb or a Serb hater; scraping the barrel.
@Ari,Your description of Ian UK and the other anti-Serb posters is 100% on the mark.Unfortunately, the end of this article is correct with regards to future conflict. The west has sown the seeds for future conflict in the Balkans as it did following WWII, its a shame how history repeats itself. Once the truth of these wars fully comes to light, and it will. There will be more conflict especially in KiM and Bosnia.
"... the vindication of the Kosovo Albanian quest for racial purity."
I love this quote. i can only guess that it means K. Albanians don't breed with any other other than a K. Albanian. yes, the gov. is now offering money to make sure we don't mingle with any of the internationals that are here
I would never hate an entire race of people, only individuals.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 12:24)
===…==
Bull. You prove that every time you come on here.
(Peggy, 10 December 2012 14:10)
No Peggy, Ian doesn't hate Serbs. He just has an extremely uninformed and completely skewed view of them that no one outside frisco could find logical. The more he argues the more ridiculous his POV is but it's fun nonetheless to read his posts since he's determined to be "right" in an internet forum. He's good entertainment :)
I know you won't get anywhere because whenever you or Ari Gold run out of fuel, you result to calling me something along the lines of being anti-Serb or a Serb hater; scraping the barrel.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 15:19)
====================================
You are anti Serb and a Serb hater. Proof is in most of your posts.
Now go back and read them on every subject discussed here.
You are like a rat caught in a trap.
Don't worry, I don't give a damn what you feel about Serbs but at least be honest. It's so very obvious to all and yet you still try to convince us of the opposite.
Be a man, have the guts to admit the truth. Don't think that if you admit it your comments will have less value. They already don't have any value at all.
Hold on a minute, wasn't it Slobodan Milosevic who sent tanks and troops from Serbia to invade Croatia? Didn't the cetniks slaughter Croatian troops,civilians in Vukovar? Didn't the cetnicks sing; Slobo send us salad their will be meat we will butcher Croatians?
All this was seen by the whole world and now Serbia and the Serbian people are paying for their actions.
I would never hate an entire race of people, only individuals.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 12:24)
===================================
Bull. You prove that every time you come on here.
Good point about the local trials. The problem, in my opinion, is that more trials should have been kept at the ICTY. I don't think the legal systems in Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia and Kosovo can be trusted to do the job. However, as I said earlier, too little was invested in the ICTY from the outset, so a number of cases were returned to the regional courts. So we have a flawed system here, with only some criminals paying the price. Some of that is down to timing, as you point out. Tudjman and Izetbegovic were under investigation at the time of their deaths, and Mate Boban also died before he could be sent to The Hague.
Congratulations to the propaganda campaign, all the way from Moscow to New York and on a Sunday when people have time to read. What happened in Bosnia and what crimes Croats and Serbs did, do not have anything incomon with Kosovo, you confuse this and try to use this when you now refer to Kosovo. Do not expect correction in Kosovo for what you have possibly lost to Bosnia and Croatia, it is not logical to claim damages from someone who was not a party to the matter. Now for the Kosovo Serbs you marginalize yourselves, it is you who do not want to live with Albanians, instead of doing whats right, apologizing for what you did to us you began a political war, and you have begun to play the victim without actually anyone threatening you. What has happened in Kosovo is that the your plan to play the victim did not go as you expected, and after everything you have done in Kosovo, you show no remorse how am i who grew up in Kosovo to be able to accept you, the best thing is that you simply leave Kosovo, because i do not want to see you murderers.
(Nori, 9 December 2012 16:03)
How could u expect us to live with you when you didnt want to live along us in Serbia?
“The lack of legal reckoning will once again channel grievances into the political process, laying up plenty of ammunition for further rounds of conflict. It is the opposite of what the war crimes tribunal for the former Yugoslavia was created to achieve,” he concluded.
--
Absolutely, there will be no peace in this part of Europe unless we head down the path of truth and reconciliation. New wars will brew as the geopolitical situation changes and momentum is heading in Serbia's favour.
With the last two verdicts even the doubters have finally seen the nature of this political NATO "court". It has exposed itself for what it really is while the statistics speak for themselves - 96.8% of those convicted are Serbs.
This isn't surprising for those who have researched this farce, with the initial funding coming from Soros foundations, practically all of the initial judges coming from NATO countries and a permanent US office stationed there overseeing and manipulating everything.
The Serbs are such saints aren't they ! The only people that think that Serbs are the victims are the Serbs themselves. Why is it that those that lose wars always point the finger at others. Most importantly the modern whole world knows who the "sadistic killers' were. Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers. Now you tell me who are the victims ?
(Bam Bam, 9 December 2012 23:36)
Lose wars? Oh please, not one force on the Balkans can hold a candle to Serbia's strength. Only when the strongest military alliance got involved in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo i Metohija could the Serbs even be held back.
If all three of your people collectively formed a front against Serbia but with no other outside help, Serbia would wipe the floor with her adversaries and in fact did before military intervention.
Bam bam, don't just leave out important facts because they are not convenient for you to say, your KLA terrorists were crushed by Serbia routinely, ask Adem Jashari!!!
You are anti Serb and a Serb hater. Proof is in most of your posts.
Now go back and read them on every subject discussed here.
You are like a rat caught in a trap.
Don't worry, I don't give a damn what you feel about Serbs but at least be honest. It's so very obvious to all and yet you still try to convince us of the opposite.
Be a man, have the guts to admit the truth. Don't think that if you admit it your comments will have less value. They already don't have any value at all.
(Peggy, 10 December 2012 20:32)
See I knew you wouldn't get anywhere. I asked for you to give an example and you couldn't. You just pathetically generalised and said "most of your posts".
If you're going to make such bold comments such as "You are anti Serb and a Serb hater", please have the decency to back up such statements and show some evidence to support your claims.
While I understand that during a war many things are done by individuals under the banner of their particular ethnic group, the fact remains that all of the groups that sided with the US have been allowed to go free and the Serbs have been imprisoned regardless of evidence.
However, your statement about Croat commanders running mandatory sessions on the Geneva Convention would have to be a joke. I wonder if these same courses were attended by those US pilots that gunned down in the street of Bagdad innocent civilians – you know the video exposing US hypocrisy on Wikileaks???
The biggest problem of people living in the US is their utter brainwashing when it comes to US committing or being the silent partner in committing crimes – it must be in their water supply.
“Haradinaj was quoted by one witness…..”. Who was the witness? His mother?
Initially I would like to point out that this is not NYT writing news but it's on the opinion section. (One man’s opinion)
=====================================
Even if it is, it's still a word of a witness they, and I presume you, find credible enough to use as a witness against the Serbs in Hauge.
You can't have it both ways. Either you find this man's word credible and therefore accept what he says to be true here or you find him a fraud and disregard his testimony against the Serbs.
I wonder if "Ian UK" will comment on this article or not. I doubt he's even read it because he is an Albanian apologist believes crimes against Serbs either never happened, or were completly justified.
His hatred is obvious, but finding out why then he takes time to post on B92 of all places would require extensive research and therapy to get to the root of his problem.
(Ari Gold, 9 December 2012 14:56)
I have read the article and I have read the original article also. I read it on Friday when it appeared on google news (how I discovered B92).
Here it is: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/08/opinion/global/selective-justice-for-the-balkans.html
Let me quote part of it for you.
"the fact remains that hundreds of thousands of Serbs — mostly the elderly, women and children — were ethnically cleansed from Kosovo by the Kosovar Albanians."
How can "hundreds of thousands of Serbs" been "ethnically cleansed" if there was only 194,190 Serbs in Kosovo (Source: 1991 Yugoslav Census) and in 2006 there were 140,000 Serbs on Kosovo?
I think that proves the reliability of David Harland's article.
My view of all the Yugoslav Wars is that all parties committed war crimes and all parties were victims of war crimes.
The ICTY has found people from all parties guilty and has let go/ released people from all parties including 18 Serbs, more than all the other released non-Serbs put together.
And no I don't hate Serbs.
Also why do all your comments involve me? It is rather weird.
It is not true that Croats were only defending their land. They, along with Serbs, were out for territory in Bosnia from the very beginning. Do a search on the Karadjordjevo Agreement.
His opinion don't mean nothing because he's leaving out the most important detail, " did other ethnicities go to belgrade to fight or vice versa"....
and he seems to forget that 1 milion plus Albanias were chased out of their homes from the Serb military and cetniks, also he forgot to mention how he felt being sieged for years in Sarajevo and what he'd done if he could to stop it.
If you want to understand the article he is writing all you have to read is what it took to stop the Serb madnes wich he rightfuly point out in the article but tries to spin it as it was bad.
(arti, 9 December 2012 17:27)
I dont really understand ur question, why would muslims and croats go to belgrade and fight when they had possible victims for slaughter (serbs)living in their own par of yugoslavia?Need I to remind you that 35%of the population in bosnia are serbs and 13%of the population in croatia were serbs before the war?
Serbs living in Serbia DIDNT GO ANYWHERE TO CONQUERE ANYONES LAND the ones who fought with the JNA in croatia did it in order to preserve their countries borders and bosnian serbs fought in bosnia and croatian serbs in croatai.
If you're going to make such bold comments such as "You are anti Serb and a Serb hater", please have the decency to back up such statements and show some evidence to support your claims.
(Ian, UK, 10 December 2012 21:30)
==============================
Are you that stupid and cannot understand what I say or you are pretending?
Let's start again.
If you look at your posts on any subject here you will see a pattern of always condemning the Serbs and NEVER EVER, condemning any of the other sides.
Now prove me wrong.
What does that say? It says that you have no objectivity and only people with ill feeling for one side have no objectivity at all.
You have never expressed disappoitment, anger or even a bad word towards any of the other sides, again prove me wrong but you have always only had bad directed at Serbs.
This is my proof. You cannot only pluck one comment. There is a pattern and that is the proof.
Do you get it now?
People like Mr. Harland --who know what happened--who have first hand experience of what happened--have been saying this for years.
Trust in the Lord, not the world, and do your own work and be happy.
These people that celebrate these deceitful victories are like drunken sailors dancing on a sinking ship. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H332qsXz2k8
The truth will out. This is typical of western morality - commit horrendous crimes today - admit guilt decades or centuries later after all evidence and witnesses have been exterminated. If you refuse to believe this, go ask Native Americans if you can find any of them.
Of course Serbs are the victims. Croats, Bosniaks, Albanians all went to Belgrade to wage war.
Wait I got that wrong. Serbs are the only thing that remains constant in all these wars. They went to Bosnia to fight and got defeated. They went to Croatia to fight and got defeated. They went to Kosova to fight and got defeated. The only thing more sorry than a loser is a sore loser.
They are welcome to live in the democratic multiethnic Kosova, if they don't like it they have Serbia. Just as the Albanians that don't like Kosova can go to Albania , or East Albania ( shkupi, Macedonia). Lol
Milosevic argued that Albanians were leaving KiM due to NATO's bombing campaign and that he gave orders not to expel them.
(Zoran, 9 December 2012 22:23)
That point had already been determined beyond reasonable doubt by a court set up by Russia, China & co that Albanians did not leave KiM because of NATO's bombing.... sorry mate, but good try.
“Haradinaj was quoted by one witness…..”. Who was the witness? His mother?
(sj, 9 December 2012 23:12)
No, his mother was not present :) But if you need more details, check paragraph 666 http://www.icty.org/x/cases/haradinaj/tjug/en/121129_judgement_en.pdf
This guy was probably very well paid by the serbs!
(1686flame, 9 December 2012 19:00)
Try reading the article:
"I have no sympathy with the Serbs who have been convicted. On the contrary. I lived through the siege of Sarajevo. I served as a witness for the prosecution in the cases against the former Serbian president, Slobodan Milosevic, the wartime leader of the Bosnian Serbs, Radovan Karadzic, and, most recently, the Bosnian Serb military commander, Ratko Mladic, who is accused of ordering the massacre at Srebrenica.
The Serbs committed many of the war’s worst crimes, but were not at all alone, and it is not right, or useful, for them to carry the sole responsibility. Convicting only Serbs simply doesn’t make sense in terms of justice, in terms of reality, or in terms of politics."
Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers.
(Bam Bam, 9 December 2012 23:36)
The Ustashe, whom you worship in the United States.
The murder of just one person is deplorable! There is no need to make up your own figures and statistics.
We all know that many innocent people were killed.
First of all we have the official number of executed men and boys in Srebrenica at 6000- 8500, and now your 10,000?, add another zero next time if it helps your demonising of all Serbian people.
Murders and massacres occurred everywhere during the wars in ex Yugoslavia, by all sides, that is one fact that can never be questioned. Don't desecrate the memory of murdered Serbs whilst at the same time dismissing those responsible for their deaths!
... and as for What Kind Of People can line up unarmed civilians and shoot them, during and also years after the wars?, Well, they would have to be the same people who are free today and running Kosovo without an ounce of shame. If you have any moral decency don't even try to argue that they are any better than those responsible for the most hideous and vile acts which occurred anywhere in the former Yugoslavia.
You imply that the author of Trusted Mole, Milos Stankovic, would defend Ratko Mladic against the ICTY charges relating to Srebrenica, but that is incorrect. Stankovic and other UNPROFOR officers had plenty of unflattering things to say about Mladic, Karadzic, Tolimir and others, and anyway, Stankovic left Bosnia three months before the Srebrenica massacre. He did meet Naser Oric in Srebrenica in 1993, but wouldn't have had any way of knowing himself what Oric had or hadn't done, given that most of his work as a UN interpreter/liaison occurred in the Lasva Valley and Sarajevo. I do agree that the book is well worth reading, as it provides a pretty balanced account from a British major fluent in Serbo-Croat working closely with key individuals on all sides of the conflict. People should also read Fighting for Peace, a memoir by Stankovic's boss, General Mike Rose.
Flame, comments like yours is what is wrong wih the world. You look down a tunnel, and have bought the cool-aide the west has sold you, ignoring any oppossing views and that your convictions are incorrect, not to mention your own personal hatreds. Enjoy your bitterness and bias, in that tunnel you live in.
It is tru that hauge rolls only to punish serbs and that serbs most likely will get all the blame for everything. We have the evidence that it was committed crimes against 250 000 serbs in croatia and alot got killed in BiH, and serbia went yugoslavia helped serbians in Kosovi I M 1999. About the last one, how come crimes against serbs in KiM was commited before 99 and serbs get all the blame anyway? Thats why i think a lot on countries that Nato attack is it really 100 right what they blame it is? I mean if the world can see this unfair treatment of one nation how come they are following them? I mean if you play a the world police at least try to be neutral and stand for what you try to!! These kind of things split´s the world and makes a co-operations among the united nations very difficult. // Propaganda about serbs has to quit serbian people have suffered for almost 600 years and just imagine during these years how many got killed, why isnt anyone saying anything about that?
The Serbs are such saints aren't they ! The only people that think that Serbs are the victims are the Serbs themselves. Why is it that those that lose wars always point the finger at others. Most importantly the modern whole world knows who the "sadistic killers' were. Seriously who in there right mind lines up 10,000 unarmed young men and boys and guns them down with AK's and rocket launchers. Now you tell me who are the victims ?
(Bam Bam, 9 December 2012 23:36)
# Comment link
There is only one nation that was so genocidal, so sadistic, that they even made Nazi SS officers sick, and that's quite the achievement!! Guess who that was?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Rw6A034Yfxo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRw6A034Yfxo
Yep, it's your only claim to fame Bam Bam, I hope you're proud. I personally would be very ashamed.
Yes I condemn Serb Politicians but never the Serbian people. Big difference.
I have always said that during the Yugoslav Wars all parites were guilty of war crimes and that all parties were victims of war crimes.
On articles where a Serb has been murdered, I comment something along the lines of "RIP I hope they catch the killers".
I have condemned the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia for bombing civilian infastructure and said that NATO should have sticked to military and political targets only.
I've always said that Northern Kosovo should be intergrated into Serbia because that is what the Serbs want.
You on the other hand only ever defend Serbs and say bad things about everyone else. Now according to your logic, does that mean that you hate those you're critical of?
You on the other hand only ever defend Serbs and say bad things about everyone else. Now according to your logic, does that mean that you hate those you're critical of?
(Ian, UK, 11 December 2012 13:14)
=====================
You're right, I am big enough to admit that I do have resentment for my enemy. Not some individuals, but as a general feeling.
Sorry but I have to say that you do lie.
You have never condemned the other sides. Show me where you have.
Writing RIP now and again is not proof of anything. I feel bad for innocent victims of whichever nationality they are too but that does not mean that I don't feel resentment when I hear the words such as Croatian, Bosniak or Albanian are uttered.
We would have to be complete monsters to hate innocent victims.
You say I only defend Serbs. You're right but show me at least one post of yours where you defend Serbs. You only ever defend Albanians and that is a fact. Prove me wrong.
So unless you can produce your post, any post, in which you condemn the actions of anyone beside Serbs you can talk till the cows come home, you are not credible.
You're right, I am big enough to admit that I do have resentment for my enemy. Not some individuals, but as a general feeling.
Sorry but I have to say that you do lie.
You have never condemned the other sides. Show me where you have.
Writing RIP now and again is not proof of anything. I feel bad for innocent victims of whichever nationality they are too but that does not mean that I don't feel resentment when I hear the words such as Croatian, Bosniak or Albanian are uttered.
We would have to be complete monsters to hate innocent victims.
You say I only defend Serbs. You're right but show me at least one post of yours where you defend Serbs. You only ever defend Albanians and that is a fact. Prove me wrong.
So unless you can produce your post, any post, in which you condemn the actions of anyone beside Serbs you can talk till the cows come home, you are not credible.
(Peggy, 11 December 2012 21:14)
Here is a comment I wrote on B92 on 24 March 2011 when I stood up for Serbs on an article titled "Serbia marks anniversary of NATO bombing": http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=73402
Let me quote for you:
"RIP to all innocent civilians who died during the bombing campaign. I think NATO should have only bombed military and political targets, I don't understand why they would bomb civilian infrastructure such as Bridges, residential areas ect."
IMAGE SOURCE
65 Komentari
Sortiraj po: