Serbia should “raise its voice against Hague rulings”

Serbia needs to understand there is no global conspiracy against Serbs. The high number of convicted criminals reflects the high number of worst crimes commited in the name of Serbia. Serbia has not overcome Milošević by choosing Nikolić. For 20 years on Serbia is the loser again and again, but not willing to change anything.

@ crna noc...stop lying!!! Serbians and Serbia are only guilty of not taking care of their own people...everyone who has been following the Balkans for the past 25 years is well aware of this...the Serbian Mistake was that they never worked with the media and pr firms ... unlike you Albanians and croats...the name Ruter and Finn mean anything too you...how about , professor Bassaouni at De Paul university ...it was one of his "Bosnian students" that came with the idea of the ICC in 1992...

The ICTY is an anti-Serbian body. It's interesting to note that both UNMIK and EULEX acquitted more Serbians than the ICTY. It's also interesting to note that they also convicted more Albanians too.

He added that it was now more often heard that the Tribunal was established in an illegal way and that Serbia could not have expected any other decision.
--
Well, the first year of this NATO court was funded by a Soros foundation while all but one of the initial judges were from NATO countries. I wouldn't be surprised if a commission is set up to investigate the activities of this so-called court and found it to be political in nature and the verdicts unsafe.

"He added that it was now more often heard that the Tribunal was established in an illegal way and that Serbia could not have expected any other decision."

The court was 'established' by the UNSC, and that's the way how UN tribunals are created. To be exact, by resolution 827 of the UNSC from 25. May,1993

The Hague courts were always going to be anti-Serbian. But big Empires will always fall and you can see the US power is slowly fading. Look what happened at the recent UN vote with Palestine getting a UN seat. US were shocked by the amount of countries voting in favour even their best friends like Australia abstained.

(a New Day, 30 November 2012 19:52)
Your investigation is cursory at best simply by looking on the internet. Judges from Egypt, Nigeria, Costa Rica, Pakistan, Australia are very much in the pockets of the US or NATO.
The man that set up the International Tribunal was a man called Sir Ninian Stephens, former Governor General of Australia and a first class jurist whose work is studied today in law schools around the world. He was a judge on Australia’s High Court for many years.
He was given the task of establishing the Tribunal but spent only 12 months there and when he saw what was going on he left abruptly even though it was still not set up properly – he saw it was a farce and he did not want anything to do with that.
If these International Tribunals are unbiased why don’t they issue arrest warrants for the likes of George Bush or Tony Blair – theses people are responsible for more deaths than anyone else??????? Because its all a show trial.

Zoran, 30 November 2012 15:45)
After reading your post, I decided to investigate the history of the ICTY and check the veracity of your claims. Some of what you say is true like the Soros foundation funding the first year, this was in part because the UNSC had not set up a procedure for administering a budget. But all that was done in that first year was setting up procedure etc, no cases were tried.
You are way off on the judges though, the initial judges came from some NATO states but also from: Egypt, Nigeria, Costa Rica, Pakistan, Australia, Malaysia, and that huge NATO state of CHINA.
Of the current judges in this NATO Court, 18 permanent judges 10 are non NATO including RUSSIA and CHINA. Of the 9 Ad litem judges 5 are from non NATO countries.
Another huge interesting fact is the first person indicted and the first person tried were named Nikolic and Tadic. Relatives of the current and recent president???? Don't know but it Sounds like you've come a long way.

Selaković has made excellent points, and yet this government still plans to have some form of cooperation with the tribunal? Sorry, but that is pretty spineless. If you want to 'raise your voice' then you must stand by it!

The Hague courts were always going to be anti-Serbian. But big Empires will always fall and you can see the US power is slowly fading. Look what happened at the recent UN vote with Palestine getting a UN seat. US were shocked by the amount of countries voting in favour even their best friends like Australia abstained.
(ZM, 30 November 2012 20:12)
1. Palestine did not get a UN seat, recheck your facts.
2. Do you think this is a new turn of events? When it comes to US support for Israel, the US has always been in the minority. But while reveling in what you perceive the downfall of the US, this has opened the door for actions of Kosovo. Palestine declared independence in 1988 and 24 years later still only 130+ countries have officially recognized it. In 4 90+ have recognized Kosovo. However the huge difference in the 2 is Kosovo also has UN to protect it from Serbia by mandate. Palestine does not have that convenience.

(sj, 1 December 2012 12:08)
So you say that the UN is owned by NATO and or the US. It was the UNSC that authorized the court. The same group that your lot says is the only authority that can properly investigate the Organ trafficking claims. EULEX is not able to do so. The real message is that Serbs are going to claim foul to anything that is not 100% pro Serbian.
Bush did not take office until 2001 long after the war ended, so the ICTY would have nothing to do with Bush. If you are speaking about Iraq or Afghanistan the answer is easy. The same reason you have never seen a tribunal investigate the actions in Chechnya, or Russian actions in Georgia, or to settle the disputes of the islands in contest by China and the other nations. Because when authority was given to the UN to oversea global actions the superpowers at the time insisted that they guarantee their immunity through veto power. (Ironically the movement is to expand that authority to more countries instead of remove it)
As far as getting my information from the internet, thats all I have, I have no crystal balls, nor am I included in every high level top secret meeting of every government on the planet as some claim to be. But at least I gave an effort instead of just sitting down and putting my thoughts and trying to pass them off as fact.

What do you see as a more fair system. Given that you will not find very many countries that are not aligned with Russia, China, EU or the US.

(pss, 1 December 2012 15:46)
I hate to say it but your postings are getting sillier every time. The Tribunal was set up under UN auspices but it was the US that pushed for its establishment. Do you actually understand anything in this life? You’re beginning to sound very much like ICJ who makes some bizarre comments to say the least. It like trying to have a mature discussion with children who ask naive questions.
If you don’t know then shut up and make no comment otherwise you make yourself look like a fool. I’d be worried more what is going to happen in Washington next year as D day is looming and I’m not talking about talks between Republicans and Democrats; I’m talking about those savage budget cuts of down the sink hole you go and you aren’t coming back up again.
Or maybe I’m imagining these things.

1. Palestine did not get a UN seat, recheck your facts.
2. Do you think this is a new turn of events? When it comes to US support for Israel, the US has always been in the minority. But while reveling in what you perceive the downfall of the US, this has opened the door for actions of Kosovo. Palestine declared independence in 1988 and 24 years later still only 130+ countries have officially recognized it. In 4 90+ have recognized Kosovo. However the huge difference in the 2 is Kosovo also has UN to protect it from Serbia by mandate. Palestine does not have that convenience.
(think again, 1 December 2012 10:22)

WOW!WOW! WOW!, 20 more years and Kosovo can be the success story that Palestine is today! you must be so excited!!!
...and instead of checking your facts on Palestine you should of looked into kosovo's situation regarding U.N because in actual fact Serbia has the U.N to ensure that Kosovo will never be anything more than it is today, an integral part of Serbia. HA HA HA
you should change your name from think again to I should of thought the first time HA HA HA

sj, 2 December 2012 03:25)
Typical response when someone catches you in one of your many farces, you do the only thing you can try the personal attack agenda. Doesn't work though it is hard to feel inferior to someone who relies on half truths and lies to look good.
But let me see if I get this correct. Russia and China have the same power in the UNSC, neither are intimidated by the US, either could have blocked the resolution but did not and agreed to it. Both have the same number of judges on the tribunal as the US. Australia(according to you) single handedly set up the court and according to you it is contrlled by people who are against Serbia. Then you turn around and insist the only people who are competent to set up another tribunal to investigate the alleged organ trafficking is these very same people. And you call me silly???
I think I would park my BMW outside and not in a garage the concentration of fumes are having an impact.

I hate to say it but your postings are getting sillier every time. The Tribunal was set up under UN auspices but it was the US that pushed for its establishment. Do you actually understand anything in this life? You’re beginning to sound very much like ICJ who makes some bizarre comments to say the least.
(sj, 2 December 2012 03:25)

Me making bizarre comments by praising the great contributions that you, as CE of the B92 forums, have given to the advancement of world economy ?! I'm suprised that you consider your comments as bizarre.

As for the ICTY creation, it could have been the US, the West, me, you or the Devil that has pushed or not pushed for it, but the pushing or not-pushing does not set up a Court unless those who can make the decision, i.e. Russia and China act. And Russia and China did act, under Russia's Presidency, on May 25, 1993 and said that they were in favor of the creation of the Court.

And that was not all; Russia and China elected each and every judge that is serving at the Court. Russia and China did even more; in 2010 they extended the term in office of Judges Meron & Robinson until 31 Dec 2012 so thay they could be there to acquit Gotovina.

These are the facts, supported by official UN documents that Serbs love so much.

But it's possible that those documents are fake, so I'm impatiently waiting to hear if your Malaysian friend knows some secret stuff about this that the world does not know.

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

But let me see if I get this correct. Russia and China have the same power in the UNSC, neither are intimidated by the US, either could have blocked the resolution but did not and agreed to it.
(pss, 2 December 2012 14:14)

Sorry pss, but the above is not fully correct, at least in regards to Russia. For Russia it was not a matter of blocking or agreeing because Russia did actually push for the Court to be created. Indeed, Russia was a sponsor of and did introduce the resolution that set up the Court.

Serbia should “raise its voice against Hague rulings”.........Seriously who in their right mind would listen to you people. Serbia will never be the U.S, Germany or France. Your just like everyone else in the Balkans - small fish surrounded by big Sharks. The quicker you understand that the better off you will be.

...and instead of checking your facts on Palestine you should of looked into kosovo's situation regarding U.N because in actual fact Serbia has the U.N to ensure that Kosovo will never be anything more than it is today, an integral part of Serbia. HA HA HA
(What Difference Does My Name Make!, 2 December 2012 10:24)

that's great... not sure then what the Serbs in North Kosovo complain about and don't agree with UNSCR 1244 and UNMIK regulations which mandate the collection of customs taxes at all crossings for goods destined to Kosovo! They need to read these forums more carefully and they'll understand that there is nothing to be concerned about because Kosovo is Serbia :)

(icj1, 3 December 2012 03:34
that's great... not sure then what the Serbs in North Kosovo complain about and don't agree with UNSCR 1244 and UNMIK regulations which mandate the collection of customs taxes at all crossings for goods destined to Kosovo! They need to read these forums more carefully and they'll understand that there is nothing to be concerned about because Kosovo is Serbia :)
icj1, 3 December 2012 03:34)

...you know what they say, Death and taxes, you can never avoid them! It looks like Kosovo now specialises in both.
The right thing to do would be to thank the UN in person for the incredible amount of revenue Pristina is recieving from those crossings.
But how?, Oh I know!, Serbia could invite Jahiga, Thaci or even Haradinaj as their special Kosovar representitve guest/s (not sure how many guests can be invited), at the next General assembly, they could even wear an asterix badge for identification, but I'm afraid not even Serbia's UNGA president Vuk Jeremic would be allowed to let them have the microphone.
Rules are rules!!!
..Yes and you are right, KOSOVO IS SERBIA :))

The right thing to do would be to thank the UN in person for the incredible amount of revenue Pristina is recieving from those crossings.
But how?, Oh I know!, Serbia could invite Jahiga, Thaci or even Haradinaj ....
(What difference does my name make!, 3 December 2012 14:29)

No need to get that complicated... UNMIK is in Pristina. If they need thanks, they can simply ask and will have it delivered there including on behalf of the Serbs who so much appreciate the UNMIK's role.

Serbia needs to understand there is no global conspiracy against Serbs. The high number of convicted criminals reflects the high number of worst crimes commited in the name of Serbia. Serbia has not overcome Milošević by choosing Nikolić. For 20 years on Serbia is the loser again and again, but not willing to change anything.

The ICTY is an anti-Serbian body. It's interesting to note that both UNMIK and EULEX acquitted more Serbians than the ICTY. It's also interesting to note that they also convicted more Albanians too.

He added that it was now more often heard that the Tribunal was established in an illegal way and that Serbia could not have expected any other decision.
--
Well, the first year of this NATO court was funded by a Soros foundation while all but one of the initial judges were from NATO countries. I wouldn't be surprised if a commission is set up to investigate the activities of this so-called court and found it to be political in nature and the verdicts unsafe.

@ crna noc...stop lying!!! Serbians and Serbia are only guilty of not taking care of their own people...everyone who has been following the Balkans for the past 25 years is well aware of this...the Serbian Mistake was that they never worked with the media and pr firms ... unlike you Albanians and croats...the name Ruter and Finn mean anything too you...how about , professor Bassaouni at De Paul university ...it was one of his "Bosnian students" that came with the idea of the ICC in 1992...

Zoran, 30 November 2012 15:45)
After reading your post, I decided to investigate the history of the ICTY and check the veracity of your claims. Some of what you say is true like the Soros foundation funding the first year, this was in part because the UNSC had not set up a procedure for administering a budget. But all that was done in that first year was setting up procedure etc, no cases were tried.
You are way off on the judges though, the initial judges came from some NATO states but also from: Egypt, Nigeria, Costa Rica, Pakistan, Australia, Malaysia, and that huge NATO state of CHINA.
Of the current judges in this NATO Court, 18 permanent judges 10 are non NATO including RUSSIA and CHINA. Of the 9 Ad litem judges 5 are from non NATO countries.
Another huge interesting fact is the first person indicted and the first person tried were named Nikolic and Tadic. Relatives of the current and recent president???? Don't know but it Sounds like you've come a long way.

The Hague courts were always going to be anti-Serbian. But big Empires will always fall and you can see the US power is slowly fading. Look what happened at the recent UN vote with Palestine getting a UN seat. US were shocked by the amount of countries voting in favour even their best friends like Australia abstained.

"He added that it was now more often heard that the Tribunal was established in an illegal way and that Serbia could not have expected any other decision."

The court was 'established' by the UNSC, and that's the way how UN tribunals are created. To be exact, by resolution 827 of the UNSC from 25. May,1993

The Hague courts were always going to be anti-Serbian. But big Empires will always fall and you can see the US power is slowly fading. Look what happened at the recent UN vote with Palestine getting a UN seat. US were shocked by the amount of countries voting in favour even their best friends like Australia abstained.
(ZM, 30 November 2012 20:12)
1. Palestine did not get a UN seat, recheck your facts.
2. Do you think this is a new turn of events? When it comes to US support for Israel, the US has always been in the minority. But while reveling in what you perceive the downfall of the US, this has opened the door for actions of Kosovo. Palestine declared independence in 1988 and 24 years later still only 130+ countries have officially recognized it. In 4 90+ have recognized Kosovo. However the huge difference in the 2 is Kosovo also has UN to protect it from Serbia by mandate. Palestine does not have that convenience.

(a New Day, 30 November 2012 19:52)
Your investigation is cursory at best simply by looking on the internet. Judges from Egypt, Nigeria, Costa Rica, Pakistan, Australia are very much in the pockets of the US or NATO.
The man that set up the International Tribunal was a man called Sir Ninian Stephens, former Governor General of Australia and a first class jurist whose work is studied today in law schools around the world. He was a judge on Australia’s High Court for many years.
He was given the task of establishing the Tribunal but spent only 12 months there and when he saw what was going on he left abruptly even though it was still not set up properly – he saw it was a farce and he did not want anything to do with that.
If these International Tribunals are unbiased why don’t they issue arrest warrants for the likes of George Bush or Tony Blair – theses people are responsible for more deaths than anyone else??????? Because its all a show trial.

Selaković has made excellent points, and yet this government still plans to have some form of cooperation with the tribunal? Sorry, but that is pretty spineless. If you want to 'raise your voice' then you must stand by it!

...and instead of checking your facts on Palestine you should of looked into kosovo's situation regarding U.N because in actual fact Serbia has the U.N to ensure that Kosovo will never be anything more than it is today, an integral part of Serbia. HA HA HA
(What Difference Does My Name Make!, 2 December 2012 10:24)

that's great... not sure then what the Serbs in North Kosovo complain about and don't agree with UNSCR 1244 and UNMIK regulations which mandate the collection of customs taxes at all crossings for goods destined to Kosovo! They need to read these forums more carefully and they'll understand that there is nothing to be concerned about because Kosovo is Serbia :)

(sj, 1 December 2012 12:08)
So you say that the UN is owned by NATO and or the US. It was the UNSC that authorized the court. The same group that your lot says is the only authority that can properly investigate the Organ trafficking claims. EULEX is not able to do so. The real message is that Serbs are going to claim foul to anything that is not 100% pro Serbian.
Bush did not take office until 2001 long after the war ended, so the ICTY would have nothing to do with Bush. If you are speaking about Iraq or Afghanistan the answer is easy. The same reason you have never seen a tribunal investigate the actions in Chechnya, or Russian actions in Georgia, or to settle the disputes of the islands in contest by China and the other nations. Because when authority was given to the UN to oversea global actions the superpowers at the time insisted that they guarantee their immunity through veto power. (Ironically the movement is to expand that authority to more countries instead of remove it)
As far as getting my information from the internet, thats all I have, I have no crystal balls, nor am I included in every high level top secret meeting of every government on the planet as some claim to be. But at least I gave an effort instead of just sitting down and putting my thoughts and trying to pass them off as fact.

What do you see as a more fair system. Given that you will not find very many countries that are not aligned with Russia, China, EU or the US.

(pss, 1 December 2012 15:46)
I hate to say it but your postings are getting sillier every time. The Tribunal was set up under UN auspices but it was the US that pushed for its establishment. Do you actually understand anything in this life? You’re beginning to sound very much like ICJ who makes some bizarre comments to say the least. It like trying to have a mature discussion with children who ask naive questions.
If you don’t know then shut up and make no comment otherwise you make yourself look like a fool. I’d be worried more what is going to happen in Washington next year as D day is looming and I’m not talking about talks between Republicans and Democrats; I’m talking about those savage budget cuts of down the sink hole you go and you aren’t coming back up again.
Or maybe I’m imagining these things.

1. Palestine did not get a UN seat, recheck your facts.
2. Do you think this is a new turn of events? When it comes to US support for Israel, the US has always been in the minority. But while reveling in what you perceive the downfall of the US, this has opened the door for actions of Kosovo. Palestine declared independence in 1988 and 24 years later still only 130+ countries have officially recognized it. In 4 90+ have recognized Kosovo. However the huge difference in the 2 is Kosovo also has UN to protect it from Serbia by mandate. Palestine does not have that convenience.
(think again, 1 December 2012 10:22)

WOW!WOW! WOW!, 20 more years and Kosovo can be the success story that Palestine is today! you must be so excited!!!
...and instead of checking your facts on Palestine you should of looked into kosovo's situation regarding U.N because in actual fact Serbia has the U.N to ensure that Kosovo will never be anything more than it is today, an integral part of Serbia. HA HA HA
you should change your name from think again to I should of thought the first time HA HA HA

sj, 2 December 2012 03:25)
Typical response when someone catches you in one of your many farces, you do the only thing you can try the personal attack agenda. Doesn't work though it is hard to feel inferior to someone who relies on half truths and lies to look good.
But let me see if I get this correct. Russia and China have the same power in the UNSC, neither are intimidated by the US, either could have blocked the resolution but did not and agreed to it. Both have the same number of judges on the tribunal as the US. Australia(according to you) single handedly set up the court and according to you it is contrlled by people who are against Serbia. Then you turn around and insist the only people who are competent to set up another tribunal to investigate the alleged organ trafficking is these very same people. And you call me silly???
I think I would park my BMW outside and not in a garage the concentration of fumes are having an impact.

I hate to say it but your postings are getting sillier every time. The Tribunal was set up under UN auspices but it was the US that pushed for its establishment. Do you actually understand anything in this life? You’re beginning to sound very much like ICJ who makes some bizarre comments to say the least.
(sj, 2 December 2012 03:25)

Me making bizarre comments by praising the great contributions that you, as CE of the B92 forums, have given to the advancement of world economy ?! I'm suprised that you consider your comments as bizarre.

As for the ICTY creation, it could have been the US, the West, me, you or the Devil that has pushed or not pushed for it, but the pushing or not-pushing does not set up a Court unless those who can make the decision, i.e. Russia and China act. And Russia and China did act, under Russia's Presidency, on May 25, 1993 and said that they were in favor of the creation of the Court.

And that was not all; Russia and China elected each and every judge that is serving at the Court. Russia and China did even more; in 2010 they extended the term in office of Judges Meron & Robinson until 31 Dec 2012 so thay they could be there to acquit Gotovina.

These are the facts, supported by official UN documents that Serbs love so much.

But it's possible that those documents are fake, so I'm impatiently waiting to hear if your Malaysian friend knows some secret stuff about this that the world does not know.

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

But let me see if I get this correct. Russia and China have the same power in the UNSC, neither are intimidated by the US, either could have blocked the resolution but did not and agreed to it.
(pss, 2 December 2012 14:14)

Sorry pss, but the above is not fully correct, at least in regards to Russia. For Russia it was not a matter of blocking or agreeing because Russia did actually push for the Court to be created. Indeed, Russia was a sponsor of and did introduce the resolution that set up the Court.

Serbia should “raise its voice against Hague rulings”.........Seriously who in their right mind would listen to you people. Serbia will never be the U.S, Germany or France. Your just like everyone else in the Balkans - small fish surrounded by big Sharks. The quicker you understand that the better off you will be.

(icj1, 3 December 2012 03:34
that's great... not sure then what the Serbs in North Kosovo complain about and don't agree with UNSCR 1244 and UNMIK regulations which mandate the collection of customs taxes at all crossings for goods destined to Kosovo! They need to read these forums more carefully and they'll understand that there is nothing to be concerned about because Kosovo is Serbia :)
icj1, 3 December 2012 03:34)

...you know what they say, Death and taxes, you can never avoid them! It looks like Kosovo now specialises in both.
The right thing to do would be to thank the UN in person for the incredible amount of revenue Pristina is recieving from those crossings.
But how?, Oh I know!, Serbia could invite Jahiga, Thaci or even Haradinaj as their special Kosovar representitve guest/s (not sure how many guests can be invited), at the next General assembly, they could even wear an asterix badge for identification, but I'm afraid not even Serbia's UNGA president Vuk Jeremic would be allowed to let them have the microphone.
Rules are rules!!!
..Yes and you are right, KOSOVO IS SERBIA :))

The right thing to do would be to thank the UN in person for the incredible amount of revenue Pristina is recieving from those crossings.
But how?, Oh I know!, Serbia could invite Jahiga, Thaci or even Haradinaj ....
(What difference does my name make!, 3 December 2012 14:29)

No need to get that complicated... UNMIK is in Pristina. If they need thanks, they can simply ask and will have it delivered there including on behalf of the Serbs who so much appreciate the UNMIK's role.