Belgrade should “reconsider its cooperation with Tribunal”

To the Tribunal ,it does not matter weather we want to cooperate with them anymore or not.They got what they wanted anyway.

Duhhh. More Serbs were found guilty, because more Serbs were guilty. We been saying for years that Serbia's attempt to create this parallel universe where "everybody is guilty" will not hold, but most of Serbs kept dismissing it. Having created this parallel universe, and being fully invested in it, I imagine most Serbs are shocked. But the truth is most other people who were not living in this parallel universe are not shocked.
It's very simple: finding more Serbs guilty of war crimes does not mean Hague Court is biased. It just it happen that Serbs committed more war crimes. Doesn't mean all Serbs are criminals, either, but at one point in your history your state was seriously inclined in killing others.

Too late, the DS sell-outs handed over everyone they wanted already.

“We are speaking about a so-called verdict to the generals, since it can hardly be called a verdict, and it all leads to a conclusion that only Serbs are being punished,” he said ahead of Thursday's judgment in the case of Ramush Haradinaj who was acquitted.
--------------

Ridiculous, there are Bosniaks, Croats and Albanians behind bars in the Hague due to the ICTY and plenty of Serbs/ Bosnian Serbs have been aquitted/ had their Indictments withdrawn due to the ICTY.

Yet according to Serbian politicians and media, only Serbs are found guilty by the ICTY and all none-Serbs are aquitted by the ICTY.

well, how about you put your money where mouth is and identify for us those "plenty of Serbs/ Bosnian Serbs have been aquitted/ had their Indictments withdrawn"?
(lowe, 29 November 2012 14:30)

Mirko Babić: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998
Nenad Banović: Indictment withdrawn on 10 April 2002
Zdravko Govedarica: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998
Dragan Kondić: Indictment withdrawn on 5 May 1998
Predag Kostić: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998.
Zoran Marinić: Indictment withdrawn on 3 October 2002
Milan Milutinović: Acquitted on 26 February 2009
Nedeljko Paspalj: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998
Milan Pavlić: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998.
Milutin Popović: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998.
Draženko Predojević: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998.
Miroslav Radić: Acquitted on 27 September 2007.
Željko Savić: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998.
Pero Skopljak: Indictment withdrawn on 19 December 1997.
Ivan Šantić: Indictment withdrawn on 19 December 1997.
Dragomir Šaponja: Indictment withdrawn on 5 May 1998.
Nedjeljko Timarac: Indictment withdrawn on 5 May 1998.
Milan Zec: Indictment withdrawn on 26 July 2002.

It should also be noted that several have passed away whilst on trial and a verdict was never delivered. Also many are still on trial and a verdict is yet to be delivered.

Despite NATO letting its pets off the hook for their crimes, Serbia should be the better state and punish war criminals. Two wrongs don't make a right and refusing to bring war criminals to justice solely because others are set free is a terrible precedent to set.

These sellouts were stupid for ever giving up our heroes in the first place!

Not only does there need to be NO cooperation with the Tribunal, but a day to celebrate these generals that sacrificed so much to protect Serbs from evil murderers.

"Ridiculous, there are Bosniaks, Croats and Albanians behind bars in the Hague due to the ICTY and plenty of Serbs/ Bosnian Serbs have been aquitted/ had their Indictments withdrawn due to the ICTY.

(Ian, UK, 29 November 2012 11:40)"

well, how about you put your money where mouth is and identify for us those "plenty of Serbs/ Bosnian Serbs have been aquitted/ had their Indictments withdrawn"?

Ian, please compare apples with apples.
Show us some names of people who have held similar positions and then let's comapre.
(Peggy, 30 November 2012 02:08)

Milan Milutinovic was the President of Serbia.
Miroslav Radic was a Captain in the Army.
Milan Zec was a Commander in the Navy.

The thing is, a lot of Serb Officers/ Senior Figures are still on trial. But this is because they went on the run therefore their trials are understandably taking place at a later date.

-------------

So are you saying that your list included those whose indictments were withdrawn because they passed away? Which leads to the question as to whether they would still have been charged had they not died. So, how valid is your list as a basis for comparison since we should be talking about the living. Remember, compare apples with apples. If you were to exclude these people, are there still "plenty" of Serbs whose indictments were withdrawn or acquited while still alive?
(lowe, 30 November 2012 02:28)

No everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/ freed by the Hague (some may have died since). What I was trying to state is that list might have been longer had some of the Indictees not died whilst on trial.
So there could have been plenty more Serbs on that list.

I can produce a list of all those who died on trial if you want?

Also many Serbs have been transfered from the ICTY to National Courts and some have gone on to be subsequently freed.

Hold on a minute. I think something is missing here.

So “Not everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/freed …” you say? So are you in fact saying that your list included Serbs who had already died and that was the reason why they were “acquitted” or had their “indictments withdrawn”? If so, how does this support your claim that “plenty” Serbs were thrown out BECAUSE THEY WERE CONSIDERED NOT GUILTY by the Hague and not because they died?
(lowe, 30 November 2012 13:45)

Why is this so hard to understand?

I named a list of 18 people. They are all still alive as far as I'm aware and they were all 100% ALIVE on the date of their aquittals/ the date of their indictments were withdrawn. All 18 LIVING people we considered NOT GUILTY therefore they were released (with a pulse) by the ICTY.

THERE WERE NO DECEASED PEOPLE IN THE LIST!

Now I can name a SEPERATE list of all the people who died whilst on trial. No names will be repeated.

Why was it hard for me to understand? It is because YOU initially wrote that "No everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/ freed by the Hague". I had assumed, reasonably, that you meant "Not" instead of "No" since "No everyone" doesn't seem to make sense gramatically. So are you are now contradicting your early claim? I suggest you reread your earlier post. With the help of new glasses and a dictionary this time perhaps.
(lowe, 30 November 2012 15:38)

Fair enough. I should have written:

"No! Everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/ freed by the Hague".

It isn't as easy writing a puntual comment on an android phone compared to writing a comment on a PC, it doesn't highlight spelling and grammar mistakes either.

well, that's your problem, not mine. I comment based on what you actually wrote, and don't expect me to second guess whether you were technically constrained by the gadgetry that you used in your writings. The onus is on you, not me, to make sure that your posts are clear.
(lowe, 30 November 2012 20:04)

Anyway, great that everything was clarified and you got what you asked for

well, that's your problem, not mine. I comment based on what you actually wrote, and don't expect me to second guess whether you were technically constrained by the gadgetry that you used in your writings. The onus is on you, not me, to make sure that your posts are clear.
(lowe, 30 November 2012 20:04)

At the end of the day, I put my money where my mouth is and identified them acquitted Serbs for you; which you are yet to comment on. Apart from questioning on whether they're alive or not.

But dont forget: all this in hague was only possible with the active role of Kostunica and Tadic...and the actual "verdicts" are surely supported by documents from archives in Belgrade....Belgrade is playing the "useful idiot" like the Russians before the trials of Stalin declaring themselves as guilty. Its the mentality. You must only see the ceremony in Prishtina with red carpet at the airport...they have dignity, Serbs not.

"Ridiculous, there are Bosniaks, Croats and Albanians behind bars in the Hague due to the ICTY and plenty of Serbs/ Bosnian Serbs have been aquitted/ had their Indictments withdrawn due to the ICTY.

(Ian, UK, 29 November 2012 11:40)"

=============================
Ian, please compare apples with apples.
Show us some names of people who have held similar positions and then let's comapre.

Despite NATO letting its pets off the hook for their crimes, Serbia should be the better state and punish war criminals. Two wrongs don't make a right and refusing to bring war criminals to justice solely because others are set free is a terrible precedent to set.
(Anonymoose, 29 November 2012 12:27)
=========================
Yes, in theory that sounds right, but how can we have confidence that Hague is going to be just and not political and try the Serbs fairly?
Seeing what happened do you have confidence that the court will try Serbs justly?
Now if the trials were in Serbia I would agree with you but since all the Serbs are over there I think they should at least let them be tried in Serbia now.

"It should also be noted that several have passed away whilst on trial and a verdict was never delivered. Also many are still on trial and a verdict is yet to be delivered.
(Ian, UK, 29 November 2012 14:57)"

So are you saying that your list included those whose indictments were withdrawn because they passed away? Which leads to the question as to whether they would still have been charged had they not died. So, how valid is your list as a basis for comparison since we should be talking about the living. Remember, compare apples with apples. If you were to exclude these people, are there still "plenty" of Serbs whose indictments were withdrawn or acquited while still alive?

"No everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/ freed by the Hague (some may have died since). What I was trying to state is that list might have been longer had some of the Indictees not died whilst on trial.
So there could have been plenty more Serbs on that list.

(Ian, UK, 30 November 2012 11:16)"

Hold on a minute. I think something is missing here.

So “Not everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/freed …” you say? So are you in fact saying that your list included Serbs who had already died and that was the reason why they were “acquitted” or had their “indictments withdrawn”? If so, how does this support your claim that “plenty” Serbs were thrown out BECAUSE THEY WERE CONSIDERED NOT GUILTY by the Hague and not because they died?

"Why is this so hard to understand?

I named a list of 18 people. They are all still alive as far as I'm aware and they were all 100% ALIVE on the date of their aquittals/ the date of their indictments were withdrawn. All 18 LIVING people we considered NOT GUILTY therefore they were released (with a pulse) by the ICTY.

THERE WERE NO DECEASED PEOPLE IN THE LIST!

Now I can name a SEPERATE list of all the people who died whilst on trial. No names will be repeated.
(Ian, UK, 30 November 2012 14:55)"

Why was it hard for me to understand? It is because YOU initially wrote that "No everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/ freed by the Hague". I had assumed, reasonably, that you meant "Not" instead of "No" since "No everyone" doesn't seem to make sense gramatically. So are you are now contradicting your early claim? I suggest you reread your earlier post. With the help of new glasses and a dictionary this time perhaps.

"It isn't as easy writing a puntual comment on an android phone compared to writing a comment on a PC, it doesn't highlight spelling and grammar mistakes either.
(Ian, UK, 30 November 2012 16:40)"

well, that's your problem, not mine. I comment based on what you actually wrote, and don't expect me to second guess whether you were technically constrained by the gadgetry that you used in your writings. The onus is on you, not me, to make sure that your posts are clear.

"Anyway, great that everything was clarified and you got what you asked for
(icj1, 30 November 2012 20:41)"

I suppose I did -- provided, of course, that everything he/she wrote was true.

"Anyway, great that everything was clarified and you got what you asked for
(icj1, 30 November 2012 20:41)"

Yes, I suppose so, assuming, of course, that those names that he/she provided are more reliable than his/her eye sight and/or English grammar -- I had expected better from someone who habitually wrote UK after his/her name.

Note: My reply did not appear and so I'm reposting the essence of what I wrote earlier.

"At the end of the day, I put my money where my mouth is and identified them acquitted Serbs for you; which you are yet to comment on. Apart from questioning on whether they're alive or not.
(Ian, UK, 1 December 2012 19:12)"

well, thanks for giving the names and no thanks for the confusion that you created in the process.

"haha, great way to change the subject from the initial main point of IAN UK about the Serbians released by the Hague to the rules of writing in English iowe. You were truly good at distracting and swaying the discussion from something relevant to something totally irrelevant.
(Reader, 1 December 2012 16:11)"

Well, how can it be my fault that Ian, UK was confusing in his/her posts? Was it wrong for me to seek his/her clarification? You should be blaming Ian UK (for creating the confusion) not me.

And how was I being "totally irrelevant" when I asked a poster to clarify his/her unclear points? As for you, aren't you now being "totally irrelevant" from the subject by making these absurd remarks about me? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Geez!

haha, great way to change the subject from the initial main point of IAN UK about the Serbians released by the Hague to the rules of writing in English iowe. You were truly good at distracting and swaying the discussion from something relevant to something totally irrelevant.

“We are speaking about a so-called verdict to the generals, since it can hardly be called a verdict, and it all leads to a conclusion that only Serbs are being punished,” he said ahead of Thursday's judgment in the case of Ramush Haradinaj who was acquitted.
--------------

Ridiculous, there are Bosniaks, Croats and Albanians behind bars in the Hague due to the ICTY and plenty of Serbs/ Bosnian Serbs have been aquitted/ had their Indictments withdrawn due to the ICTY.

Yet according to Serbian politicians and media, only Serbs are found guilty by the ICTY and all none-Serbs are aquitted by the ICTY.

Duhhh. More Serbs were found guilty, because more Serbs were guilty. We been saying for years that Serbia's attempt to create this parallel universe where "everybody is guilty" will not hold, but most of Serbs kept dismissing it. Having created this parallel universe, and being fully invested in it, I imagine most Serbs are shocked. But the truth is most other people who were not living in this parallel universe are not shocked.
It's very simple: finding more Serbs guilty of war crimes does not mean Hague Court is biased. It just it happen that Serbs committed more war crimes. Doesn't mean all Serbs are criminals, either, but at one point in your history your state was seriously inclined in killing others.

well, how about you put your money where mouth is and identify for us those "plenty of Serbs/ Bosnian Serbs have been aquitted/ had their Indictments withdrawn"?
(lowe, 29 November 2012 14:30)

Mirko Babić: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998
Nenad Banović: Indictment withdrawn on 10 April 2002
Zdravko Govedarica: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998
Dragan Kondić: Indictment withdrawn on 5 May 1998
Predag Kostić: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998.
Zoran Marinić: Indictment withdrawn on 3 October 2002
Milan Milutinović: Acquitted on 26 February 2009
Nedeljko Paspalj: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998
Milan Pavlić: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998.
Milutin Popović: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998.
Draženko Predojević: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998.
Miroslav Radić: Acquitted on 27 September 2007.
Željko Savić: Indictment withdrawn on 8 May 1998.
Pero Skopljak: Indictment withdrawn on 19 December 1997.
Ivan Šantić: Indictment withdrawn on 19 December 1997.
Dragomir Šaponja: Indictment withdrawn on 5 May 1998.
Nedjeljko Timarac: Indictment withdrawn on 5 May 1998.
Milan Zec: Indictment withdrawn on 26 July 2002.

It should also be noted that several have passed away whilst on trial and a verdict was never delivered. Also many are still on trial and a verdict is yet to be delivered.

Despite NATO letting its pets off the hook for their crimes, Serbia should be the better state and punish war criminals. Two wrongs don't make a right and refusing to bring war criminals to justice solely because others are set free is a terrible precedent to set.

"Ridiculous, there are Bosniaks, Croats and Albanians behind bars in the Hague due to the ICTY and plenty of Serbs/ Bosnian Serbs have been aquitted/ had their Indictments withdrawn due to the ICTY.

(Ian, UK, 29 November 2012 11:40)"

well, how about you put your money where mouth is and identify for us those "plenty of Serbs/ Bosnian Serbs have been aquitted/ had their Indictments withdrawn"?

Too late, the DS sell-outs handed over everyone they wanted already.

These sellouts were stupid for ever giving up our heroes in the first place!

Not only does there need to be NO cooperation with the Tribunal, but a day to celebrate these generals that sacrificed so much to protect Serbs from evil murderers.

"Ridiculous, there are Bosniaks, Croats and Albanians behind bars in the Hague due to the ICTY and plenty of Serbs/ Bosnian Serbs have been aquitted/ had their Indictments withdrawn due to the ICTY.

(Ian, UK, 29 November 2012 11:40)"

=============================
Ian, please compare apples with apples.
Show us some names of people who have held similar positions and then let's comapre.

Despite NATO letting its pets off the hook for their crimes, Serbia should be the better state and punish war criminals. Two wrongs don't make a right and refusing to bring war criminals to justice solely because others are set free is a terrible precedent to set.
(Anonymoose, 29 November 2012 12:27)
=========================
Yes, in theory that sounds right, but how can we have confidence that Hague is going to be just and not political and try the Serbs fairly?
Seeing what happened do you have confidence that the court will try Serbs justly?
Now if the trials were in Serbia I would agree with you but since all the Serbs are over there I think they should at least let them be tried in Serbia now.

"It should also be noted that several have passed away whilst on trial and a verdict was never delivered. Also many are still on trial and a verdict is yet to be delivered.
(Ian, UK, 29 November 2012 14:57)"

So are you saying that your list included those whose indictments were withdrawn because they passed away? Which leads to the question as to whether they would still have been charged had they not died. So, how valid is your list as a basis for comparison since we should be talking about the living. Remember, compare apples with apples. If you were to exclude these people, are there still "plenty" of Serbs whose indictments were withdrawn or acquited while still alive?

"No everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/ freed by the Hague (some may have died since). What I was trying to state is that list might have been longer had some of the Indictees not died whilst on trial.
So there could have been plenty more Serbs on that list.

(Ian, UK, 30 November 2012 11:16)"

Hold on a minute. I think something is missing here.

So “Not everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/freed …” you say? So are you in fact saying that your list included Serbs who had already died and that was the reason why they were “acquitted” or had their “indictments withdrawn”? If so, how does this support your claim that “plenty” Serbs were thrown out BECAUSE THEY WERE CONSIDERED NOT GUILTY by the Hague and not because they died?

To the Tribunal ,it does not matter weather we want to cooperate with them anymore or not.They got what they wanted anyway.

"Why is this so hard to understand?

I named a list of 18 people. They are all still alive as far as I'm aware and they were all 100% ALIVE on the date of their aquittals/ the date of their indictments were withdrawn. All 18 LIVING people we considered NOT GUILTY therefore they were released (with a pulse) by the ICTY.

THERE WERE NO DECEASED PEOPLE IN THE LIST!

Now I can name a SEPERATE list of all the people who died whilst on trial. No names will be repeated.
(Ian, UK, 30 November 2012 14:55)"

Why was it hard for me to understand? It is because YOU initially wrote that "No everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/ freed by the Hague". I had assumed, reasonably, that you meant "Not" instead of "No" since "No everyone" doesn't seem to make sense gramatically. So are you are now contradicting your early claim? I suggest you reread your earlier post. With the help of new glasses and a dictionary this time perhaps.

"It isn't as easy writing a puntual comment on an android phone compared to writing a comment on a PC, it doesn't highlight spelling and grammar mistakes either.
(Ian, UK, 30 November 2012 16:40)"

well, that's your problem, not mine. I comment based on what you actually wrote, and don't expect me to second guess whether you were technically constrained by the gadgetry that you used in your writings. The onus is on you, not me, to make sure that your posts are clear.

"Anyway, great that everything was clarified and you got what you asked for
(icj1, 30 November 2012 20:41)"

Yes, I suppose so, assuming, of course, that those names that he/she provided are more reliable than his/her eye sight and/or English grammar -- I had expected better from someone who habitually wrote UK after his/her name.

Note: My reply did not appear and so I'm reposting the essence of what I wrote earlier.

haha, great way to change the subject from the initial main point of IAN UK about the Serbians released by the Hague to the rules of writing in English iowe. You were truly good at distracting and swaying the discussion from something relevant to something totally irrelevant.

Hold on a minute. I think something is missing here.

So “Not everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/freed …” you say? So are you in fact saying that your list included Serbs who had already died and that was the reason why they were “acquitted” or had their “indictments withdrawn”? If so, how does this support your claim that “plenty” Serbs were thrown out BECAUSE THEY WERE CONSIDERED NOT GUILTY by the Hague and not because they died?
(lowe, 30 November 2012 13:45)

Why is this so hard to understand?

I named a list of 18 people. They are all still alive as far as I'm aware and they were all 100% ALIVE on the date of their aquittals/ the date of their indictments were withdrawn. All 18 LIVING people we considered NOT GUILTY therefore they were released (with a pulse) by the ICTY.

THERE WERE NO DECEASED PEOPLE IN THE LIST!

Now I can name a SEPERATE list of all the people who died whilst on trial. No names will be repeated.

Why was it hard for me to understand? It is because YOU initially wrote that "No everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/ freed by the Hague". I had assumed, reasonably, that you meant "Not" instead of "No" since "No everyone" doesn't seem to make sense gramatically. So are you are now contradicting your early claim? I suggest you reread your earlier post. With the help of new glasses and a dictionary this time perhaps.
(lowe, 30 November 2012 15:38)

Fair enough. I should have written:

"No! Everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/ freed by the Hague".

It isn't as easy writing a puntual comment on an android phone compared to writing a comment on a PC, it doesn't highlight spelling and grammar mistakes either.

"Anyway, great that everything was clarified and you got what you asked for
(icj1, 30 November 2012 20:41)"

I suppose I did -- provided, of course, that everything he/she wrote was true.

well, that's your problem, not mine. I comment based on what you actually wrote, and don't expect me to second guess whether you were technically constrained by the gadgetry that you used in your writings. The onus is on you, not me, to make sure that your posts are clear.
(lowe, 30 November 2012 20:04)

At the end of the day, I put my money where my mouth is and identified them acquitted Serbs for you; which you are yet to comment on. Apart from questioning on whether they're alive or not.

But dont forget: all this in hague was only possible with the active role of Kostunica and Tadic...and the actual "verdicts" are surely supported by documents from archives in Belgrade....Belgrade is playing the "useful idiot" like the Russians before the trials of Stalin declaring themselves as guilty. Its the mentality. You must only see the ceremony in Prishtina with red carpet at the airport...they have dignity, Serbs not.

Ian, please compare apples with apples.
Show us some names of people who have held similar positions and then let's comapre.
(Peggy, 30 November 2012 02:08)

Milan Milutinovic was the President of Serbia.
Miroslav Radic was a Captain in the Army.
Milan Zec was a Commander in the Navy.

The thing is, a lot of Serb Officers/ Senior Figures are still on trial. But this is because they went on the run therefore their trials are understandably taking place at a later date.

-------------

So are you saying that your list included those whose indictments were withdrawn because they passed away? Which leads to the question as to whether they would still have been charged had they not died. So, how valid is your list as a basis for comparison since we should be talking about the living. Remember, compare apples with apples. If you were to exclude these people, are there still "plenty" of Serbs whose indictments were withdrawn or acquited while still alive?
(lowe, 30 November 2012 02:28)

No everyone in the list I mentioned were alive when they were acquitted/ freed by the Hague (some may have died since). What I was trying to state is that list might have been longer had some of the Indictees not died whilst on trial.
So there could have been plenty more Serbs on that list.

I can produce a list of all those who died on trial if you want?

Also many Serbs have been transfered from the ICTY to National Courts and some have gone on to be subsequently freed.

well, that's your problem, not mine. I comment based on what you actually wrote, and don't expect me to second guess whether you were technically constrained by the gadgetry that you used in your writings. The onus is on you, not me, to make sure that your posts are clear.
(lowe, 30 November 2012 20:04)

Anyway, great that everything was clarified and you got what you asked for

"At the end of the day, I put my money where my mouth is and identified them acquitted Serbs for you; which you are yet to comment on. Apart from questioning on whether they're alive or not.
(Ian, UK, 1 December 2012 19:12)"

well, thanks for giving the names and no thanks for the confusion that you created in the process.

"haha, great way to change the subject from the initial main point of IAN UK about the Serbians released by the Hague to the rules of writing in English iowe. You were truly good at distracting and swaying the discussion from something relevant to something totally irrelevant.
(Reader, 1 December 2012 16:11)"

Well, how can it be my fault that Ian, UK was confusing in his/her posts? Was it wrong for me to seek his/her clarification? You should be blaming Ian UK (for creating the confusion) not me.

And how was I being "totally irrelevant" when I asked a poster to clarify his/her unclear points? As for you, aren't you now being "totally irrelevant" from the subject by making these absurd remarks about me? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Geez!