Generals acquitted "for sake of Croatia’s EU accession”

If the court has made the way free for Croatia towards EU it means also that there is NO way at all for the Serbs to enter the EU. This Belgrade should understand and go its own way.

This comes from a man who humiliates victims by denying genocide!

I am in no position to comment on the validity or otherwise of these verdicts as I have little information about the events of Operation Storm that isn't tainted one way or the other by Croat or Serb media. However, the idea that this verdict 'clears' the way for Croatia's EU accession is complete baloney. No one in Brussels has ever made any connection between the guilt, or otherwise, of these two generals and Croatia's potential membership of the EU. The condition set by the EU many years ago was for Gotovina to be arrested and handed over to the Hague in the same way that the arrest of Karadzic and Mladic (and Hadzic) became a condition for Serbia. Whether or not these people are found guilty will have no impact on Serbia's EU accession and neither should it; they met the condition laid down. I can understand Dodik being upset by the verdict but not everything is a conspiracy even if many of my Balkan friends would disagree.

Why Dodik is not in Belgrade replacing the muppets Dacic & Nikolic?

I can understand Dodik being upset by the verdict but not everything is a conspiracy even if many of my Balkan friends would disagree.
(Ned Taylor, 16 November 2012 16:00)
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Do you find it at least a little bit interesting that the same court found these guys guilty after a 2 year trial and sentenced them to 24 years in prison and then a year later they are found not guilty and released. I mean, how can that be? Also the prosecution will not appeal. I hope at least you realise there is a US office in this so-called court that oversees pretty much everything that goes on.

Let's see what reactions will come after Ramushis free!

"Do you find it at least a little bit interesting that the same court found these guys guilty after a 2 year trial and sentenced them to 24 years in prison and then a year later they are found not guilty and released. I mean, how can that be? "

The summary of the judgement is here: http://www.icty.org/x/cases/gotovina/acjug/en/121116_summary.pdf.

Basically, the original conviction was based on finding that the shelling of the 4 towns had been illegal because care was not taken to avoid hitting civilian institutions. The court at that time adopted an arbitrary margin of error of 200 m for the shelling - anything beyond that distance from a legitimate military target was assumed not to have been a technical error but random firing intended to frighten the populace into fleeing. The appeals court says there was no evidence presented at the trial to prove that the 200-m limit was reasonable, and so the charge of random shelling fell, and with it the intention to provoke flight from the towns, and thus the charge of a Joint Criminal Enterprise.

If anyone is humiliated, it is the (past) prosecutors of the court who decided to prosecute the leaders of all sides, regardless of their actual actions, just to demonstrate how impartial they were being, in order to appease one side.

Any crimes that were committed during and after the exodus of the Serbs from Croatia should of course be investigated and prosecuted. This is more likely to happen now that the war itself is not subject to international judgement. This case should be a warning to all of us that all wars are violent and that innocents will suffer - it's simply the nature of the undertaking, and justice will not necessarily involve retribution for every military action.

Does this mean the suit the Serbs in Chicago are bringing against the American trainers falls in the water, or will they try to prove that there actually was a crime committed? It will be a while before there's any decision, most likely.

Zoran: At the risk of contradicting myself I am far more prepared to believe that the US interferred in this case than that the EU needed an acquittal to further Croatia's EU membership bid. However, I would suggest that we all read the appeal ruling before coming to any firm conclusions. Facts can often alter our perceptions of what we would prefer to believe.

Dodik is scared that Gotovina will now take care of Republika Serb like he to care of Krajina.

Facts can often alter our perceptions of what we would prefer to believe.
(ned taylor, 17 November 2012 10:39)
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Two judges believe that it was political and they have all the facts already.

Peggy: You are correct, two judges voted against acquittal although nowhere in their comments did they mention anything about this being a political decision, they just believed it to be wrong. However, three judges disagreed and according to my fingers and thumb that makes a majority in favour of upholding the appeal.

Now I know Nazi's are ruling the world and all politicians in the world are ignoring it. Croat Ustasha butchers were Nazi's favorites and are still proud they served under Nazi's.

Nobody needs to fear any recyceling emerge of Gotovina kind of mobsters. These guys have been firmly castrated by the Cangaroo court and their nuts are safely kept in the Hague. It is of NO consequence if the rest of their soul-less zombie bodies are released or not. From now on they will run off and fetch any stick their new masters tells them to. Or else their asses will be back in the hot-pot once more.

This comes from a man who humiliates victims by denying genocide!

I am in no position to comment on the validity or otherwise of these verdicts as I have little information about the events of Operation Storm that isn't tainted one way or the other by Croat or Serb media. However, the idea that this verdict 'clears' the way for Croatia's EU accession is complete baloney. No one in Brussels has ever made any connection between the guilt, or otherwise, of these two generals and Croatia's potential membership of the EU. The condition set by the EU many years ago was for Gotovina to be arrested and handed over to the Hague in the same way that the arrest of Karadzic and Mladic (and Hadzic) became a condition for Serbia. Whether or not these people are found guilty will have no impact on Serbia's EU accession and neither should it; they met the condition laid down. I can understand Dodik being upset by the verdict but not everything is a conspiracy even if many of my Balkan friends would disagree.

If the court has made the way free for Croatia towards EU it means also that there is NO way at all for the Serbs to enter the EU. This Belgrade should understand and go its own way.

I can understand Dodik being upset by the verdict but not everything is a conspiracy even if many of my Balkan friends would disagree.
(Ned Taylor, 16 November 2012 16:00)
--
Do you find it at least a little bit interesting that the same court found these guys guilty after a 2 year trial and sentenced them to 24 years in prison and then a year later they are found not guilty and released. I mean, how can that be? Also the prosecution will not appeal. I hope at least you realise there is a US office in this so-called court that oversees pretty much everything that goes on.

Why Dodik is not in Belgrade replacing the muppets Dacic & Nikolic?

If anyone is humiliated, it is the (past) prosecutors of the court who decided to prosecute the leaders of all sides, regardless of their actual actions, just to demonstrate how impartial they were being, in order to appease one side.

Any crimes that were committed during and after the exodus of the Serbs from Croatia should of course be investigated and prosecuted. This is more likely to happen now that the war itself is not subject to international judgement. This case should be a warning to all of us that all wars are violent and that innocents will suffer - it's simply the nature of the undertaking, and justice will not necessarily involve retribution for every military action.

Does this mean the suit the Serbs in Chicago are bringing against the American trainers falls in the water, or will they try to prove that there actually was a crime committed? It will be a while before there's any decision, most likely.

Facts can often alter our perceptions of what we would prefer to believe.
(ned taylor, 17 November 2012 10:39)
============================

Two judges believe that it was political and they have all the facts already.

"Do you find it at least a little bit interesting that the same court found these guys guilty after a 2 year trial and sentenced them to 24 years in prison and then a year later they are found not guilty and released. I mean, how can that be? "

The summary of the judgement is here: http://www.icty.org/x/cases/gotovina/acjug/en/121116_summary.pdf.

Basically, the original conviction was based on finding that the shelling of the 4 towns had been illegal because care was not taken to avoid hitting civilian institutions. The court at that time adopted an arbitrary margin of error of 200 m for the shelling - anything beyond that distance from a legitimate military target was assumed not to have been a technical error but random firing intended to frighten the populace into fleeing. The appeals court says there was no evidence presented at the trial to prove that the 200-m limit was reasonable, and so the charge of random shelling fell, and with it the intention to provoke flight from the towns, and thus the charge of a Joint Criminal Enterprise.

Dodik is scared that Gotovina will now take care of Republika Serb like he to care of Krajina.

Zoran: At the risk of contradicting myself I am far more prepared to believe that the US interferred in this case than that the EU needed an acquittal to further Croatia's EU membership bid. However, I would suggest that we all read the appeal ruling before coming to any firm conclusions. Facts can often alter our perceptions of what we would prefer to believe.

Peggy: You are correct, two judges voted against acquittal although nowhere in their comments did they mention anything about this being a political decision, they just believed it to be wrong. However, three judges disagreed and according to my fingers and thumb that makes a majority in favour of upholding the appeal.

Now I know Nazi's are ruling the world and all politicians in the world are ignoring it. Croat Ustasha butchers were Nazi's favorites and are still proud they served under Nazi's.

Let's see what reactions will come after Ramushis free!

Nobody needs to fear any recyceling emerge of Gotovina kind of mobsters. These guys have been firmly castrated by the Cangaroo court and their nuts are safely kept in the Hague. It is of NO consequence if the rest of their soul-less zombie bodies are released or not. From now on they will run off and fetch any stick their new masters tells them to. Or else their asses will be back in the hot-pot once more.