Hague Tribunal acquits two Croat generals

So who is responsible then? Ultimately commanders in chief are responsible for crimes committed by surbodinates, especially if they knew about them and failed to act against them. 200,000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed and between 1,200 and 2,000 were butchered during operation Storm. So is responsible then according to this court? This 'court' completely anti-Serb and does not see Serbs as human beings. This ethnic cleansing of Serbs was planned.

Thank God justice has been served. These Heros where tried for something that actually never happened.
Basically this ruling states that the serbs that left Croatia, left on there on accord on where not driven out.

Boze Cuvaj Hrvatsku!!

Welcome home dear General. You are an great hero for the Croatian people. Just like Ramush Haradinaj are for us Albanians.

This summer on my way down to Kosova I will stay in Makarska Croatia and have me an good drink with my Croatian friends and celebrate this.

We are just waiting for Ramush Haradinaj to be released so the celebration will be even bigger. :)

An great day for the free Croatian people. Congratulation !!!

Just a observation:

I watch the live stream of the Hague court nearly every day for a long time, so how come i have not seen these two guys their process?

For the same reason Slobodan gets found dead 'under mysterious circumstances' in his cell after he talks himself out of all accusations?

Justice is what the richest people with the most guns tell you it is.

I am glad justice has been served.

Congratulation Croatia
Generals enjoy the freedom because you fought for that freedom, I wish your fast return to the family's. greetings from Albanian/American

I said they would be acquitted they only defended their country and put a end to the criminal brutal war. If they weren't acquitted they would have to put high ranking military personal American ,British ,French ,Russian etc on trial and be found guilty. Croatia prayed and fasted also and God loves Croatians the liberation is vindicated as legitimate.

A great day for Croatia and Croats everywhere.
No one should ever be persecuted for defending thirty country. This decision finally shows who the aggressors really were.

This should be an eyeopener for the Serbs: they fought unjust wars of occupation against their neighbours, and they lost all: Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. Hence, it is reflected in the Courts rulings in the Hague too. Stop living in denial and blaming others for the actions that you instigated. We can all then perhaps live in peace.

The whole West is supporting Croats,Albanians and Muslims against Serbs for geopolitical reasons!

The Hague is not a court to go to and seek justice,but a political show tribunal to further Western interests!

The West was organizing the ethnic cleansing named "Oluja",the West was creating "safe zones" in Bosnia to save the Muslim army from certain defeat and the West supported and still supports Albanian terrorism in Kosovo and its occupation!

It was right of Nikolic to clearly say that Srebrenica was no genocide and to repeat it again and again to toss away those Hague legends and tell the truth about a military operation !

We should teach our children that Mladic and Karadzic are heroes while those ,who in 1941 danced on the streets and collaborated with Hitlers troops,and are now considered the good guys by the corrupted West are pure evil!

Albanian terrorist Haradinaj will very soon be also released,there is no question about that!

But there is one very,very good side too this,too:

Now the last "liberal,western leaning Serb" will finally wake up and we will consolidate our national ranks,no yielding on Kosovo,the RS or other Serb national inetersts!
And we must make Russia our full ally,politically,economically and militarily (by offering them base for their nuclear weapons etc.)

Only us and the Serb national interest is important,nothing else!
I do not give two cents about what Westerners think of us,they are our enemies!

(Daniel Ivkovic, 16 November 2012 11:28)
I have met and spoken with Serbs that according to you left Croatia 'voluntarily' and believe me, none of them said they left Croatia voluntarily. They were driven out. They knew if they'd stay behind they would risk being killed. Nobody voluntarily leaves the place that he or she lived for generations. The ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Croatia was planned by Tudjman and executed with the help of the US and Germany. And Milosevic betrayed the Serbs from Croatia. It is one of the biggest warcrimes committed in Europe post WWII. This court -which is full of 'freely' made available American and British judges and prosecutors- is one big sad joke.

CG, how can you even contemplated putting nuclear bombs on Serbian territory?

Best you start facing the cold hard truth, serbia lost its forth war to Croatia, Kosovo is gone, R.S will collapse
Vojvodina will follow Kosovo.

The days of serbian nationalism and its fantasy of Greater Serbia are over.
Stop believing the propoganda that your politicans feed you.

Thank goodness.

Croatain leaders protect people against greater serbia project.

So who's responsible for all those people driven out forcibly and killed by Croat forces? Nobody at all? They just went away for fun, and some killed themselves?

I can't tell whether Markac and Gotovina are personally guilty or not (although I wonder whatever happened to the concept of command responsibility), but the scandal is that NOBODY is being prosecuted for this war crime. As if it never happened. And that's a sad day for justice and the self-proclaimed mission of the ICTY (and by extension the ICJ).

But it's a great day for the war crimes deniers and ultra-nationalists in Croatia, how readily embrace the idea that no crimes happened at all. And we're welcoming these people into the EU, supposedly a "peace project".

This action just goes to prove that Hague tribunal is a joke. It's a witch hunt for the Serbian leadership. Also this action should help fauster trust trust between the Serbs and Croats. There will never be true peace on the Balkans, the west makes sure of that after every conflict.

It is known that there were orders for Serb evacuation of krajina in 1995 direct from BG. Anyone around then knew this. When Croatia was recognized as a state it changed everything (thank you Germany) this was the end of Yugoslavia and a civil war became a war of serbian state aggression against state of Croatia. Serbia could not win that war and could not win the history books. Let us not be foolish, after 4 years of war, trying to secede from Croatia, vukovar and so on, did the krajina Serbs expect to stay in Croatia? More importantly, did they even want to?

There you have it. This is exactly what I predicted back in April 2011. The NATO court could not permanently convict their own partners in crimes. The only way to secure a permanent "not guilty" is through the appeals process. If fact, it is a complete 360 and one has to wonder how they could obtain such opposing verdicts? No Gotovina and no Oric. Both partners in crime with their western friends. Actually, that is the only logical conclusion.

Check the conversations from April 15, 2011 -> http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=73818
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Personally, I have always thought the guilty verdict would come now but I wasn't too certain it would remain after an appeal. The US office at the NATO court either let this one go or will plan to have it reversed on appeal. You see, the US was highly involved in these operations, just like doing business with organ snatchers in KiM. It is in their interest to cover up and hide these crimes.
(Zoran, 15 April 2011 13:33)
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Zoran you did a good job in predicting the verdit, but I must admit I hadn't heard anybody say that Gotovina would be found guilty on the serious charges, or that the narrative (that is now entering history books as fact) that Tudjman organised the ethnic cleansing of Serbs on Brioni would be accepted by the judges so completely. So you are one of a kind! Either that or you are trying to downplay the verdict because it doesn't fit into your own view of the Hague.
(bganon, 15 April 2011 18:13)
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I was right.

Dick Cheney makes all the "criminals" in the Hague look like virgins.

It is good that the attempt to rewite history has been blocked.

The Serbs of Croatia were evacuated by Serbian forces, it is a myth that they were expelled by Croatian forces.

Ante Gotovina and Mladen Markac can now been commended as heroes they are for liberating Croatia and for stopping another Srebrenica happeneing in Bihac!

It is horrible that people out there want to blacken their names just because they're still bitter that Croatia became independent and won the war!

@Daniel Ivkovic

Perhaps you should ask some of these Serbs who left “voluntarily” how much of an encouragement continuous shelling was for them?
Perhaps you can explain why those few that returned after the war quickly sell their property at a fraction of its worth and leave again (homes that they have lived in for generations).
Perhaps you can explain why the vast majority of Serbs that were evacuated before an approaching army that had already killed hundreds of them should want to return?
Clearly they chose to leave and those that died committed suicide en-route.

Joe A, which part of the hearing verdict don't you understand, the Generals were acquitted, that means the serbs were not ethnically cleansed they left Croatia Voluntarily.

What a wonderful day. Our generals coming home as free man! True heros!

This is a hard day for Serbia to remember that Milosevic at least has done nothing against what happend in these years, he was supporting the exit of the Serbs from Croatia. And Serbia is today with Dacic and Nikolic also preparing the next exit of Serbs-this time from Kosovo. It is a hard day for Serbia having a leadership dreaming really about "historic agreements" and "everlasting peace". The real problems are much deeper and are having historical roots. Also Dacic & Nikolic cannot ignore this. The problems were there before their mandate and they will be there after their mandate. It need s time and passion and a strong position, what Serbia has not and had never. There is something to learn from Croatia, but there is no hope that Serbia will become a strong and respected country.

Justice is dead. I'm sorry, this is a travesty for both Serbs and Croats. For Serbs it's another slap in the face to the victims of ethnic cleansing and neo-fascism. For Croats, it allows an ugly past to effectively remain and be a part of national collective identity, which will undoubtedly further hinder reconciliation with Serbs. This is an absolute travesty.

The Hague tribunal must be congratulated. Any fool could see that Gotovina was a professional War General

The only reason croatia won the war was because Milosevic felt bad for the croatians!!! The army after all was 10km from Zagreb... If he really wanted to Zagreb would be called BEOGREB!!! Second of all if it wasn't for Nato do you people honestly think you would stand a chance.. LOL I say who cares THE HAGUE can keep up the good work... Whats funnny is imagine how big Serbia will be when Nato goes bankrupt.. TO all my SERBS love you guys FRIEND FROM DENMARK!!!!!

and it's armed forces evacuated the Serbs during and following the decline of the Serbian Client State in Croatia.
(Ian, UK, 16 November 2012 14:34)

Really Ian, try talking with Serbs from Croatia and they'll tell you they were not "evacuated" out with JNA. They fled for their lives with whatever they could carry and shove in their cars, hoping it wouldn't break down along the way because Croat irregulars were lining the roads to Serbia waiting to attack. I'm not sure if you've ever been to the former Yugoslavia because at times your comments reflect one looking at the world through a BBC television screen.

I have met and spoken with Serbs that according to you left Croatia 'voluntarily' and believe me, none of them said they left Croatia voluntarily. They were driven out. They knew if they'd stay behind they would risk being killed. Nobody voluntarily leaves the place that he or she lived for generations. The ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Croatia was planned by Tudjman and executed with the help of the US and Germany. And Milosevic betrayed the Serbs from Croatia. It is one of the biggest warcrimes committed in Europe post WWII. This court -which is full of 'freely' made available American and British judges and prosecutors- is one big sad joke.
(Joe A, 16 November 2012 12:44)

The Serbs didn't voluntarily leave Croatia, FR Yugoslavia's Client State the 'Republic of Serbian Krajina' and it's armed forces evacuated the Serbs during and following the decline of the Serbian Client State in Croatia.

Also the ICTY isn't full of Yanky and British judges & prosecutors. They come from all over the world, see here: http://www.icty.org/sid/151

Justice is done.The two generals are freedom fighters and heroes.

More evidence that this court is a joke. No surprise here.

And the Serbs are surprised by the courts decision.? Seems like everyone everywhere suffers from short term memory loss. The Hague acquited Haradinaj, and Oric.

Get it through your heads, you are not in their little western club. Sorry.

And still, Dacic and Nikolic are setting up meetings and making little deals with them over Kosovo.

Clearly noboby will respect Serbs or Serbia unless we respect ourselves first. I think Serbia should take its destiny in its own hands instead of putting it in others who are hell bent on our destruction. Want to send a message about what happens to those who massacre Serbs and think they got away with it? Take some lessons from the Mossad.

Bravo Croatia, the truth has set them free. Croatia carried out a justified campaign in its own territory to rid itself of the rebel and illegal false republic of Srpska Krajina. The Serbs there have nobody to blame but themselves for listening to Milosevic's promise of having there own state. The Croatian army gave them 3 days warning of the attack and there own forces warned the people to evacuate. I never heard of any warnings given to the people of Croatia of the Serbian attack on Croatia and its people. Vukovar, Osijek, and Dubrovnik were crimes against Croatia. Oluja and Knin were justified, plain and simple.

Serbia you reap what you sowe
(Marko, 16 November 2012 20:45)

It annoys me when you get comments like this which show graphically the unwillingness or inability of one side to acknowledge that crimes were committed by their side on the other and the failure to acknowledge the suffering and wrongs endured on the other. The verdict was the worst possible outcome. It will not allow any reconciliation at all and will instead give Croatia a sense that their ethnic cleansing was legtimised while for the Serbs, a sense of great injustice. The lasting bitterness of this will endure for generations when it could have been put to bed by sending Gotovina and Markac back to jail for their crimes. All thanks to the Einsteins in the Hague/Brussels to ensure more hatred and mutual distrust.

Is anyone surprised? Everyone knows what is going on here. The gravy train must continue as long as possible.

What a joke! To all you Croats celebrating, you then need to stop condemning Serbs who defended Mladic and others. Your army cleansed 200,000 people and you have the gall to act like it was "occupied" land when you darn well those borders were never set in stone? Many of us knew the Hague was a kangaroo court but this just confirms it. I hope you enjoy joining as bankrupt EU and this should be a signal to the Serbian government to stop working with the Hague. Now I'm even more upset that Mladic was handed over.

Ian have you ever left England? Saying that some Serbs were able to stay and survive Storm is the equivalent of saying that because some Bosniaks live in RS today, no genocide happened. Those who were able to "stay" were "unable to leave". and many who "stayed" were subsequently "killed". I personally know many who "stayed" and were thrown in jail for years simply because they were Serbs and continue to live as second class citizens. The rest that are there now, returned after many years. Many haven't returned because many have no interest in returning. Can't say the same about Croats living in Vojvodina. So please, for the sake of your own intelligence, do try not to talk about an event you were far removed from and have no connection with. I personally know many people whose were victims of Storm. What you write is both a gross insensitivity as well as a diminishment of events. By your logic, anything that isn't ethnically pure today is a testament to multiethnic tolerance. You're going to have to come up with better reasoning than what you're giving now.

@Ian UK, you seem to be very familiar with Serbian names. Interesting.
Have you ever spoken to Serbian refugees? Have you ever bothered to read anything besides western media?
Have you even met any Serbian refugees from any part of the former Yugoslavia?
Have you ever read anything on the subject written by John Pilger, Noam Chomsky, Scott Taylor, Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer?
Have you seen a documentary "Stolen Kosovo"?
In short have you ever bothered to listen to the Serbian side of the story? If so how, from whom and what have you read that is not from CNN, BBC, The Guardian or your 6 o'clock news?

This is Croatia's reward for accepting to pay 1 bn Euro/annum to the EU.

Another national holiday in the making{in croatia,germany,the vatican and other nazi lovers }The holy see{?}{see what?}will elevate them to saint hood!Prepare to celabrate in HEll,where you cowards are heading!

Really Ian, try talking with Serbs from Croatia and they'll tell you they were not "evacuated" out with JNA. They fled for their lives with whatever they could carry and shove in their cars, hoping it wouldn't break down along the way because Croat irregulars were lining the roads to Serbia waiting to attack. I'm not sure if you've ever been to the former Yugoslavia because at times your comments reflect one looking at the world through a BBC television screen.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 16 November 2012 16:29)


Then why did Milan Martic on the 4th August 1995, order "the evacuation of all persons incapable of military service from the Knin, Benkovac, Obrovac, Drnis and Gracac municipalities" if they weren't evacuated?

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1996/Croatia.htm Number 26

Obviously there would have been that nationalist fearmongering propaganda telling the Serbs of Croatia what would happen to them if they stay in Croatia.

Again Ian, try using your brain. Issuing a general order to 250,000 people to basically "run" is not an "evacuation". Try talking with Krajina Serb refugees one of these days. They'll tell you it was anything other than orderly, organized, and planned.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 16 November 2012 20:03)

At least you accept it was Martic that told the Serbs to leave not the Croats and yes it was a last minute unorganised evacuation as they realised that they were going to have to live in a Croatian state instead of a ethnically pure Serbian client state of Belgrade. The thing is, many Serbs did stay, were safe and still live there now; why didn't the Croatian and Bosniak military "force" them to leave also? Or maybe the ones that stayed were wiser and didn't believe the anti-Croatian nationalist propaganda/ brainwashing they were being constantly exposed to?

Also that 250,000 is an inflated figure has been inflated, a bit like that 200,000 figure of how many Serbs were supposedly ethnically cleansed from Kosovo despite there not being 200,000 Serbs in Kosovo to start with and that there are 140,000 Serbs still in Kosovo now. I think you need to learn to see through this BS and lies which you believe.

Sad to see that this decision of the court is actually fuelling bad feelings between Croats and Serbs also. What is to become of this world and the people who claim to know best for everyone else :(

Sad to see that this decision of the court is actually fuelling bad feelings between Croats and Serbs also. What is to become of this world and the people who claim to know best for everyone else :(
(Simot, 16 November 2012 12:25)
So if this general is innocent.
General Mladic is an angel !

Where is danilo bganon, bob and comm.parison to tell Serbs that this is a legit court and make legit decisions?

These criminals escaped punishment for their crimes. However, they won't be able to escape the wrath of God!

Bravo Croatia, the truth has set them free. Croatia carried out a justified campaign in its own territory to rid itself of the rebel and illegal false republic of Srpska Krajina. The Serbs there have nobody to blame but themselves for listening to Milosevic's promise of having there own state. The Croatian army gave them 3 days warning of the attack and there own forces warned the people to evacuate. I never heard of any warnings given to the people of Croatia of the Serbian attack on Croatia and its people. Vukovar, Osijek, and Dubrovnik were crimes against Croatia. Oluja and Knin were justified, plain and simple.

Serbia you reap what you sowe

Lets not forget what this is all about, this is about victims, large majority of which were civilians who were ethnically cleansed from their homes.

Anyway who claims to have victims in mind should think twice before dancing upon the graves of those that didn't deserve to die or lose their houses.

Not that this matters, but I don't accept this verdict. Its an injustice and there are major flaws in the judges 'considerations':

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/hague-verdict-shows-it-is-good-to-be-criminal

I expect that the ICTY (International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia) changes its name to ICTS (international Criminal Tribunal against Serbia).
What a shame!

No I have not met with Serbian refugees.
(Ian, UK, 17 November 2012 13:32)

Ah, therefore you have no grounds to pursue the faulty arguments you have. In fact, you're just as bad as someone who never met a Bosnian or Albanian refugee but questions their stories of victimhood and oppression. Tell you what, next time you travel to this part of Europe, look me up. We'll go visit some of those Storm victims and you can educate them that since there was no ethnic cleansing in 1994 and no need for them to have left, they can form a motorcade back to Croatia and claim all that was taken from them.

The quantitative third-party data you've read should more than take care of the emotional scars and bitter memories they hold. I'll even be kind enough to translate for them since you probably can't speak Serbian :)

Lobbying works:
http://www.nezavisne.com/novosti/ex-yu/Hrvati-angazovali-Amerikance-da-lobiraju-u-Hagu-u-slucajevima-Gotovine-i-Markaca-125027.html

SHAME...there is a simple truth out there :NO justice NO peace...and it is disgraceful to see comments of people calling such crimes a myth...just like they call the exterminations of WW2 a myth as well....

CG, how can you even contemplated putting nuclear bombs on Serbian territory?

Best you start facing the cold hard truth, serbia lost its forth war to Croatia, Kosovo is gone, R.S will collapse
Vojvodina will follow Kosovo.

The days of serbian nationalism and its fantasy of Greater Serbia are over.
Stop believing the propoganda that your politicans feed you.
(Daniel Ivkovic, 16 November 2012 12:58)

RS is stronger than ever,Serbs demographically control 60% of the country will take over Bosnia in a few decades while Croats plunged from 800.000 in 1991 to 350.000 in 2012!
Which means Serbs will own whole of Bosnia in a few generations while Croats will be extinct!
In Vojvodina ,Serbs are already making up nearly 80% of the population and strongly growing and already there is a petition on to abolish the province in a referendum!

So you can spew your hatred and party tonight but Croats in Bosnia and Vojvodina are history,and it will stay that way!
Even with all the help you got from the West!

Yes I have left England, I'm well travelled for your information. Well over 200,000 Serbs remained in Croatia following storm. They could have left had they wanted to, but they remained and rightly so; there was/ is no reason for them to do so.
(Ian, UK, 17 November 2012 01:17)

Oh poor poor Ian. It's nice you use Wikipedia for your statistics. Yes, according to them, 200K Serbs are in Croatia as of 2001. Too bad Wikipedia listed over 500K in 1991, which means 300K left. Care to speculate why they left? They can't all be war criminals. Do please enlighten me with your knowledge, but please try to be a little more informative than an armchair historian with an obsession for vague statistics and subjective conclusions :)

(Balkan Anthropologist, 16 November 2012 22:04)

Yes I have left England, I'm well travelled for your information. Well over 200,000 Serbs remained in Croatia following storm. They could have left had they wanted to, but they remained and rightly so; there was/ is no reason for them to do so. You do realise that 240,000 Croat civilians became displaced as result of Croatia's fight for independence? More than Serbs. Now we could talk about the 135,000 Croats and 430,000+ Bosniaks who were forced to leave what is now the RS and have not returned if want?

@Ian UK, so I see that you have dismissed all you have seen and read which portrays Serbs as victims and not aggressors as lies. Not in any event have Serbs been victims, that is according to you. I know this because not once did you acknowledge that terrible crimes have been committed against the Serbs.
Serbs must be so powerful that they were able to inflict all the horror on the other three sides.
How powerful do you think the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia were? They certainly did not outnumber the others.
Do you honestly believe that Bosnian Muslims only had bows and arrows to fight with and no help from anyone else? Where do you think all the mujahadeens were?
Do you honestly believe that Croatia did not arm themselves by smuggling weapons across Hungarian border well before any war broke out?
You must think that the Serbs all came from Krypton. They would all have to be Supermen to inflict so much horror and the other sides were all helpless.
Unless you believe this then and only then can you say that there were no guilty amongst the other sides.
I have not yet seen one word from you acknowledging that Serbs were victims as well.
We Serbs here have acknowledged that crimes were committed by all sides, but we seem to be the only ones. Your lot cannot admit crimes of their own.
Finally, what makes you so sure that 'Stolen Kosovo' is not accurate?

Sorry about @IanUK , I assure you that his view however is that held by most of my countrymen due to the slanted coverage of the war during the nineties and very little followup information since. If one really wishes to get to learn about the Balkan conflicts (something which I have a passing knowledge of... enough to know that nobody hasn't got some blood on their hands - I'll leave it there to save further arguing) one has to go and look into it. Most people in the UK are too busy, or just not studying that area of the world to do anything other than regurgitate news reports.

Again, my apologies for my countryman, please don't think all people from the UK are as ignorant.

Do not look to the apparatus of the world's justice system for answers, as your search there is futile. Within that system, evil routinely goes unpunished. Allow your heart to remain at peace and do not follow the reactionary habit of the ego; leave judgement to Universe.

Then why did Milan Martic on the 4th August 1995, order "the evacuation of all persons incapable of military service from the Knin, Benkovac, Obrovac, Drnis and Gracac municipalities" if they weren't evacuated?
(Ian, UK, 16 November 2012 19:14)

Again Ian, try using your brain. Issuing a general order to 250,000 people to basically "run" is not an "evacuation". Try talking with Krajina Serb refugees one of these days. They'll tell you it was anything other than orderly, organized, and planned.

"The Croats are the bravest people in the world, not because they are not afraid of anything, but because they are not ashamed of nothing" - Jovan Ducic

I don't blame Croatia for this. I blame the ICTY and their western financiers, US and Germany. We have survived much worse than this. In fact,it will only make us stronger. The Croats know what theydid and how they did it. It is time for all Serbs to come together and take care of our vulnerable refugees. God bless Serbia.

Back in the 1990s, Croatia did one thing right - they hired a TOP NOTCH PR firm to potray them as innocent in the world. Whilst Serbs, being the proud Serbs they have always been - said we don't need PR!

Now, Croatia is enjoying the merrits of positive PR, while Serbia continues to enjoy the role of the antagonist (due to lack of positive PR, held back thanks to super pride!)

...evacuated the Serbs during and following the decline of the Serbian Client State in Croatia.

(Ian, UK, 16 November 2012 14:34)

There was no war in Croatia durinf "evacuation", does it make senseto evacuate people at peace time?

Well i hope the Serbian Communists especially from belgrade will stop going to Croatia for Vacation, especially on the coast. This absolutely disgusts me, the Croats are taught to embrace nationalistic views and Serbs that do so are looked down upon. TITO ERA Serbs, believe that all this equality crap is good, it was a fairly tale that set Serbs up for a nightmare for their future. Anyways, this is what happens with Croats are more united with each other. Serbs on the other hand don't give a s***, let this be a lesson. Time for Serbs to start waking up and speaking the truth and raise speculation for this type of atrocity, because with two scum bags getting off as easy as they did, this is a sign for worse things to come for serbs.

@Ian UK, you seem to be very familiar with Serbian names. Interesting.
Have you ever spoken to Serbian refugees? Have you ever bothered to read anything besides western media?
Have you even met any Serbian refugees from any part of the former Yugoslavia?
Have you ever read anything on the subject written by John Pilger, Noam Chomsky, Scott Taylor, Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer?
Have you seen a documentary "Stolen Kosovo"?
In short have you ever bothered to listen to the Serbian side of the story? If so how, from whom and what have you read that is not from CNN, BBC, The Guardian or your 6 o'clock news?
(Peggy, 17 November 2012 09:05)

I'm familiar with Serbian names? How so? If it ends in 'vic' or 'ic' then there is a good chance that person is from former Yugo or has ancestral links there. That is about as far as my my knowledge goes on Serbian names.

No I have not met with Serbian refugees.

Yes I have read some of the works of the people you have mentioned, particularly Chomsky.
Yes I have seen that very biased film "Stolen Kosovo" on youtube as well as on RT.
Yes I have read upon the Serbian side of the story.

Where have I read upon it?

Well for starters B92 amongst other Serbian news sites, blogs and then we Russian Fox News in the UK aka Russia Today which constantly makes a point of showing the Serbian side of the story in former Yugo. I read countless amounts of English language none-western news websites based all over the world, not just B92.

"they won't be able to escape the wrath of God"

Are you sure somenthing like that does really exist? And of which one, since it seems they have another one:)

Bloody Laughable!! and Bloody Disgusting!
Its the hague tribunal that has confirmed what every Serb already knew but now all others know that it is a political court. Tadic go bury your head in the sand now because you sent Karadzic and Mladic to the hague. They are our heros and no Serb should ever forget this. This new Serbian Government should tread very carefully with US and EU while they blatantly and so openly wear wolves clothing.

@ Balkan AnthropoligistNo I used Census results as a source which many Serbs boycotted. They left for the same reason Croats and Bosniaks left, the War. And they were evacuated and some left because they didn't want to live in an independent Croatia.

This court -which is full of 'freely' made available American and British judges and prosecutors- is one big sad joke.
(Joe A, 16 November 2012 12:44)

Interesting, since the court was created by Russia, China & co and the judges are elected by Russia, China & co. And we all know that Russia & China are Serbia's greatest allies and the enemies of US and UK, aren't they ?

How powerful do you think the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia were?
(Peggy, 17 November 2012 15:00)

Based on Serbs' comments in these forums describing the great victories of Serbs' against everybody, evil Nato included and how everybody, evil Nato included, is all p... and wind, I do think that Serbs are very powerful.

Again Ian, try using your brain. Issuing a general order to 250,000 people to basically "run" is not an "evacuation". Try talking with Krajina Serb refugees one of these days. They'll tell you it was anything other than orderly, organized, and planned.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 16 November 2012 20:03)

Hmmm, I thought that when our fellow poster aaayyy makes the same argument for Kosovo's case in these forum, he/she is using his/her brain because the state has right to move people from the battlefield according to him/her.

The quantitative third-party data you've read should more than take care of the emotional scars and bitter memories they hold. I'll even be kind enough to translate for them since you probably can't speak Serbian :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 17 November 2012 16:05)
==================================
Ian only speaks Albanian, due to the fact that his family accommodated one refugee Albanian family from Kosovo who told them everything they needed to know.

Thank God justice has been served. These Heros where tried for something that actually never happened.
Basically this ruling states that the serbs that left Croatia, left on there on accord on where not driven out.

Boze Cuvaj Hrvatsku!!

Welcome home dear General. You are an great hero for the Croatian people. Just like Ramush Haradinaj are for us Albanians.

This summer on my way down to Kosova I will stay in Makarska Croatia and have me an good drink with my Croatian friends and celebrate this.

We are just waiting for Ramush Haradinaj to be released so the celebration will be even bigger. :)

An great day for the free Croatian people. Congratulation !!!

Thank goodness.

I said they would be acquitted they only defended their country and put a end to the criminal brutal war. If they weren't acquitted they would have to put high ranking military personal American ,British ,French ,Russian etc on trial and be found guilty. Croatia prayed and fasted also and God loves Croatians the liberation is vindicated as legitimate.

A great day for Croatia and Croats everywhere.
No one should ever be persecuted for defending thirty country. This decision finally shows who the aggressors really were.

I am glad justice has been served.

This should be an eyeopener for the Serbs: they fought unjust wars of occupation against their neighbours, and they lost all: Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. Hence, it is reflected in the Courts rulings in the Hague too. Stop living in denial and blaming others for the actions that you instigated. We can all then perhaps live in peace.

Congratulation Croatia
Generals enjoy the freedom because you fought for that freedom, I wish your fast return to the family's. greetings from Albanian/American

Joe A, which part of the hearing verdict don't you understand, the Generals were acquitted, that means the serbs were not ethnically cleansed they left Croatia Voluntarily.

Croatain leaders protect people against greater serbia project.

The whole West is supporting Croats,Albanians and Muslims against Serbs for geopolitical reasons!

The Hague is not a court to go to and seek justice,but a political show tribunal to further Western interests!

The West was organizing the ethnic cleansing named "Oluja",the West was creating "safe zones" in Bosnia to save the Muslim army from certain defeat and the West supported and still supports Albanian terrorism in Kosovo and its occupation!

It was right of Nikolic to clearly say that Srebrenica was no genocide and to repeat it again and again to toss away those Hague legends and tell the truth about a military operation !

We should teach our children that Mladic and Karadzic are heroes while those ,who in 1941 danced on the streets and collaborated with Hitlers troops,and are now considered the good guys by the corrupted West are pure evil!

Albanian terrorist Haradinaj will very soon be also released,there is no question about that!

But there is one very,very good side too this,too:

Now the last "liberal,western leaning Serb" will finally wake up and we will consolidate our national ranks,no yielding on Kosovo,the RS or other Serb national inetersts!
And we must make Russia our full ally,politically,economically and militarily (by offering them base for their nuclear weapons etc.)

Only us and the Serb national interest is important,nothing else!
I do not give two cents about what Westerners think of us,they are our enemies!

What a wonderful day. Our generals coming home as free man! True heros!

So who is responsible then? Ultimately commanders in chief are responsible for crimes committed by surbodinates, especially if they knew about them and failed to act against them. 200,000 Serbs were ethnically cleansed and between 1,200 and 2,000 were butchered during operation Storm. So is responsible then according to this court? This 'court' completely anti-Serb and does not see Serbs as human beings. This ethnic cleansing of Serbs was planned.

CG, how can you even contemplated putting nuclear bombs on Serbian territory?

Best you start facing the cold hard truth, serbia lost its forth war to Croatia, Kosovo is gone, R.S will collapse
Vojvodina will follow Kosovo.

The days of serbian nationalism and its fantasy of Greater Serbia are over.
Stop believing the propoganda that your politicans feed you.

The only reason croatia won the war was because Milosevic felt bad for the croatians!!! The army after all was 10km from Zagreb... If he really wanted to Zagreb would be called BEOGREB!!! Second of all if it wasn't for Nato do you people honestly think you would stand a chance.. LOL I say who cares THE HAGUE can keep up the good work... Whats funnny is imagine how big Serbia will be when Nato goes bankrupt.. TO all my SERBS love you guys FRIEND FROM DENMARK!!!!!

It is good that the attempt to rewite history has been blocked.

The Serbs of Croatia were evacuated by Serbian forces, it is a myth that they were expelled by Croatian forces.

Ante Gotovina and Mladen Markac can now been commended as heroes they are for liberating Croatia and for stopping another Srebrenica happeneing in Bihac!

It is horrible that people out there want to blacken their names just because they're still bitter that Croatia became independent and won the war!

Just a observation:

I watch the live stream of the Hague court nearly every day for a long time, so how come i have not seen these two guys their process?

For the same reason Slobodan gets found dead 'under mysterious circumstances' in his cell after he talks himself out of all accusations?

Justice is what the richest people with the most guns tell you it is.

It is known that there were orders for Serb evacuation of krajina in 1995 direct from BG. Anyone around then knew this. When Croatia was recognized as a state it changed everything (thank you Germany) this was the end of Yugoslavia and a civil war became a war of serbian state aggression against state of Croatia. Serbia could not win that war and could not win the history books. Let us not be foolish, after 4 years of war, trying to secede from Croatia, vukovar and so on, did the krajina Serbs expect to stay in Croatia? More importantly, did they even want to?

There you have it. This is exactly what I predicted back in April 2011. The NATO court could not permanently convict their own partners in crimes. The only way to secure a permanent "not guilty" is through the appeals process. If fact, it is a complete 360 and one has to wonder how they could obtain such opposing verdicts? No Gotovina and no Oric. Both partners in crime with their western friends. Actually, that is the only logical conclusion.

Check the conversations from April 15, 2011 -> http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=73818
--
Personally, I have always thought the guilty verdict would come now but I wasn't too certain it would remain after an appeal. The US office at the NATO court either let this one go or will plan to have it reversed on appeal. You see, the US was highly involved in these operations, just like doing business with organ snatchers in KiM. It is in their interest to cover up and hide these crimes.
(Zoran, 15 April 2011 13:33)
--
Zoran you did a good job in predicting the verdit, but I must admit I hadn't heard anybody say that Gotovina would be found guilty on the serious charges, or that the narrative (that is now entering history books as fact) that Tudjman organised the ethnic cleansing of Serbs on Brioni would be accepted by the judges so completely. So you are one of a kind! Either that or you are trying to downplay the verdict because it doesn't fit into your own view of the Hague.
(bganon, 15 April 2011 18:13)
--
I was right.

@Daniel Ivkovic

Perhaps you should ask some of these Serbs who left “voluntarily” how much of an encouragement continuous shelling was for them?
Perhaps you can explain why those few that returned after the war quickly sell their property at a fraction of its worth and leave again (homes that they have lived in for generations).
Perhaps you can explain why the vast majority of Serbs that were evacuated before an approaching army that had already killed hundreds of them should want to return?
Clearly they chose to leave and those that died committed suicide en-route.

Is anyone surprised? Everyone knows what is going on here. The gravy train must continue as long as possible.

The Hague tribunal must be congratulated. Any fool could see that Gotovina was a professional War General

This is Croatia's reward for accepting to pay 1 bn Euro/annum to the EU.

(Daniel Ivkovic, 16 November 2012 11:28)
I have met and spoken with Serbs that according to you left Croatia 'voluntarily' and believe me, none of them said they left Croatia voluntarily. They were driven out. They knew if they'd stay behind they would risk being killed. Nobody voluntarily leaves the place that he or she lived for generations. The ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Croatia was planned by Tudjman and executed with the help of the US and Germany. And Milosevic betrayed the Serbs from Croatia. It is one of the biggest warcrimes committed in Europe post WWII. This court -which is full of 'freely' made available American and British judges and prosecutors- is one big sad joke.

Another national holiday in the making{in croatia,germany,the vatican and other nazi lovers }The holy see{?}{see what?}will elevate them to saint hood!Prepare to celabrate in HEll,where you cowards are heading!

Bravo Croatia, the truth has set them free. Croatia carried out a justified campaign in its own territory to rid itself of the rebel and illegal false republic of Srpska Krajina. The Serbs there have nobody to blame but themselves for listening to Milosevic's promise of having there own state. The Croatian army gave them 3 days warning of the attack and there own forces warned the people to evacuate. I never heard of any warnings given to the people of Croatia of the Serbian attack on Croatia and its people. Vukovar, Osijek, and Dubrovnik were crimes against Croatia. Oluja and Knin were justified, plain and simple.

Serbia you reap what you sowe

This action just goes to prove that Hague tribunal is a joke. It's a witch hunt for the Serbian leadership. Also this action should help fauster trust trust between the Serbs and Croats. There will never be true peace on the Balkans, the west makes sure of that after every conflict.

More evidence that this court is a joke. No surprise here.

Justice is done.The two generals are freedom fighters and heroes.

Dick Cheney makes all the "criminals" in the Hague look like virgins.

Back in the 1990s, Croatia did one thing right - they hired a TOP NOTCH PR firm to potray them as innocent in the world. Whilst Serbs, being the proud Serbs they have always been - said we don't need PR!

Now, Croatia is enjoying the merrits of positive PR, while Serbia continues to enjoy the role of the antagonist (due to lack of positive PR, held back thanks to super pride!)

These criminals escaped punishment for their crimes. However, they won't be able to escape the wrath of God!

What a joke! To all you Croats celebrating, you then need to stop condemning Serbs who defended Mladic and others. Your army cleansed 200,000 people and you have the gall to act like it was "occupied" land when you darn well those borders were never set in stone? Many of us knew the Hague was a kangaroo court but this just confirms it. I hope you enjoy joining as bankrupt EU and this should be a signal to the Serbian government to stop working with the Hague. Now I'm even more upset that Mladic was handed over.

(Balkan Anthropologist, 16 November 2012 22:04)

Yes I have left England, I'm well travelled for your information. Well over 200,000 Serbs remained in Croatia following storm. They could have left had they wanted to, but they remained and rightly so; there was/ is no reason for them to do so. You do realise that 240,000 Croat civilians became displaced as result of Croatia's fight for independence? More than Serbs. Now we could talk about the 135,000 Croats and 430,000+ Bosniaks who were forced to leave what is now the RS and have not returned if want?

Bravo Croatia, the truth has set them free. Croatia carried out a justified campaign in its own territory to rid itself of the rebel and illegal false republic of Srpska Krajina. The Serbs there have nobody to blame but themselves for listening to Milosevic's promise of having there own state. The Croatian army gave them 3 days warning of the attack and there own forces warned the people to evacuate. I never heard of any warnings given to the people of Croatia of the Serbian attack on Croatia and its people. Vukovar, Osijek, and Dubrovnik were crimes against Croatia. Oluja and Knin were justified, plain and simple.

Serbia you reap what you sowe
(Marko, 16 November 2012 20:45)

It annoys me when you get comments like this which show graphically the unwillingness or inability of one side to acknowledge that crimes were committed by their side on the other and the failure to acknowledge the suffering and wrongs endured on the other. The verdict was the worst possible outcome. It will not allow any reconciliation at all and will instead give Croatia a sense that their ethnic cleansing was legtimised while for the Serbs, a sense of great injustice. The lasting bitterness of this will endure for generations when it could have been put to bed by sending Gotovina and Markac back to jail for their crimes. All thanks to the Einsteins in the Hague/Brussels to ensure more hatred and mutual distrust.

So who's responsible for all those people driven out forcibly and killed by Croat forces? Nobody at all? They just went away for fun, and some killed themselves?

I can't tell whether Markac and Gotovina are personally guilty or not (although I wonder whatever happened to the concept of command responsibility), but the scandal is that NOBODY is being prosecuted for this war crime. As if it never happened. And that's a sad day for justice and the self-proclaimed mission of the ICTY (and by extension the ICJ).

But it's a great day for the war crimes deniers and ultra-nationalists in Croatia, how readily embrace the idea that no crimes happened at all. And we're welcoming these people into the EU, supposedly a "peace project".

I have met and spoken with Serbs that according to you left Croatia 'voluntarily' and believe me, none of them said they left Croatia voluntarily. They were driven out. They knew if they'd stay behind they would risk being killed. Nobody voluntarily leaves the place that he or she lived for generations. The ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Croatia was planned by Tudjman and executed with the help of the US and Germany. And Milosevic betrayed the Serbs from Croatia. It is one of the biggest warcrimes committed in Europe post WWII. This court -which is full of 'freely' made available American and British judges and prosecutors- is one big sad joke.
(Joe A, 16 November 2012 12:44)

The Serbs didn't voluntarily leave Croatia, FR Yugoslavia's Client State the 'Republic of Serbian Krajina' and it's armed forces evacuated the Serbs during and following the decline of the Serbian Client State in Croatia.

Also the ICTY isn't full of Yanky and British judges & prosecutors. They come from all over the world, see here: http://www.icty.org/sid/151

Sad to see that this decision of the court is actually fuelling bad feelings between Croats and Serbs also. What is to become of this world and the people who claim to know best for everyone else :(
(Simot, 16 November 2012 12:25)
So if this general is innocent.
General Mladic is an angel !

Justice is dead. I'm sorry, this is a travesty for both Serbs and Croats. For Serbs it's another slap in the face to the victims of ethnic cleansing and neo-fascism. For Croats, it allows an ugly past to effectively remain and be a part of national collective identity, which will undoubtedly further hinder reconciliation with Serbs. This is an absolute travesty.

Clearly noboby will respect Serbs or Serbia unless we respect ourselves first. I think Serbia should take its destiny in its own hands instead of putting it in others who are hell bent on our destruction. Want to send a message about what happens to those who massacre Serbs and think they got away with it? Take some lessons from the Mossad.

CG, how can you even contemplated putting nuclear bombs on Serbian territory?

Best you start facing the cold hard truth, serbia lost its forth war to Croatia, Kosovo is gone, R.S will collapse
Vojvodina will follow Kosovo.

The days of serbian nationalism and its fantasy of Greater Serbia are over.
Stop believing the propoganda that your politicans feed you.
(Daniel Ivkovic, 16 November 2012 12:58)

RS is stronger than ever,Serbs demographically control 60% of the country will take over Bosnia in a few decades while Croats plunged from 800.000 in 1991 to 350.000 in 2012!
Which means Serbs will own whole of Bosnia in a few generations while Croats will be extinct!
In Vojvodina ,Serbs are already making up nearly 80% of the population and strongly growing and already there is a petition on to abolish the province in a referendum!

So you can spew your hatred and party tonight but Croats in Bosnia and Vojvodina are history,and it will stay that way!
Even with all the help you got from the West!

This is a hard day for Serbia to remember that Milosevic at least has done nothing against what happend in these years, he was supporting the exit of the Serbs from Croatia. And Serbia is today with Dacic and Nikolic also preparing the next exit of Serbs-this time from Kosovo. It is a hard day for Serbia having a leadership dreaming really about "historic agreements" and "everlasting peace". The real problems are much deeper and are having historical roots. Also Dacic & Nikolic cannot ignore this. The problems were there before their mandate and they will be there after their mandate. It need s time and passion and a strong position, what Serbia has not and had never. There is something to learn from Croatia, but there is no hope that Serbia will become a strong and respected country.

Lobbying works:
http://www.nezavisne.com/novosti/ex-yu/Hrvati-angazovali-Amerikance-da-lobiraju-u-Hagu-u-slucajevima-Gotovine-i-Markaca-125027.html

SHAME...there is a simple truth out there :NO justice NO peace...and it is disgraceful to see comments of people calling such crimes a myth...just like they call the exterminations of WW2 a myth as well....

and it's armed forces evacuated the Serbs during and following the decline of the Serbian Client State in Croatia.
(Ian, UK, 16 November 2012 14:34)

Really Ian, try talking with Serbs from Croatia and they'll tell you they were not "evacuated" out with JNA. They fled for their lives with whatever they could carry and shove in their cars, hoping it wouldn't break down along the way because Croat irregulars were lining the roads to Serbia waiting to attack. I'm not sure if you've ever been to the former Yugoslavia because at times your comments reflect one looking at the world through a BBC television screen.

Then why did Milan Martic on the 4th August 1995, order "the evacuation of all persons incapable of military service from the Knin, Benkovac, Obrovac, Drnis and Gracac municipalities" if they weren't evacuated?
(Ian, UK, 16 November 2012 19:14)

Again Ian, try using your brain. Issuing a general order to 250,000 people to basically "run" is not an "evacuation". Try talking with Krajina Serb refugees one of these days. They'll tell you it was anything other than orderly, organized, and planned.

Again Ian, try using your brain. Issuing a general order to 250,000 people to basically "run" is not an "evacuation". Try talking with Krajina Serb refugees one of these days. They'll tell you it was anything other than orderly, organized, and planned.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 16 November 2012 20:03)

At least you accept it was Martic that told the Serbs to leave not the Croats and yes it was a last minute unorganised evacuation as they realised that they were going to have to live in a Croatian state instead of a ethnically pure Serbian client state of Belgrade. The thing is, many Serbs did stay, were safe and still live there now; why didn't the Croatian and Bosniak military "force" them to leave also? Or maybe the ones that stayed were wiser and didn't believe the anti-Croatian nationalist propaganda/ brainwashing they were being constantly exposed to?

Also that 250,000 is an inflated figure has been inflated, a bit like that 200,000 figure of how many Serbs were supposedly ethnically cleansed from Kosovo despite there not being 200,000 Serbs in Kosovo to start with and that there are 140,000 Serbs still in Kosovo now. I think you need to learn to see through this BS and lies which you believe.

Yes I have left England, I'm well travelled for your information. Well over 200,000 Serbs remained in Croatia following storm. They could have left had they wanted to, but they remained and rightly so; there was/ is no reason for them to do so.
(Ian, UK, 17 November 2012 01:17)

Oh poor poor Ian. It's nice you use Wikipedia for your statistics. Yes, according to them, 200K Serbs are in Croatia as of 2001. Too bad Wikipedia listed over 500K in 1991, which means 300K left. Care to speculate why they left? They can't all be war criminals. Do please enlighten me with your knowledge, but please try to be a little more informative than an armchair historian with an obsession for vague statistics and subjective conclusions :)

And the Serbs are surprised by the courts decision.? Seems like everyone everywhere suffers from short term memory loss. The Hague acquited Haradinaj, and Oric.

Get it through your heads, you are not in their little western club. Sorry.

And still, Dacic and Nikolic are setting up meetings and making little deals with them over Kosovo.

Really Ian, try talking with Serbs from Croatia and they'll tell you they were not "evacuated" out with JNA. They fled for their lives with whatever they could carry and shove in their cars, hoping it wouldn't break down along the way because Croat irregulars were lining the roads to Serbia waiting to attack. I'm not sure if you've ever been to the former Yugoslavia because at times your comments reflect one looking at the world through a BBC television screen.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 16 November 2012 16:29)


Then why did Milan Martic on the 4th August 1995, order "the evacuation of all persons incapable of military service from the Knin, Benkovac, Obrovac, Drnis and Gracac municipalities" if they weren't evacuated?

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1996/Croatia.htm Number 26

Obviously there would have been that nationalist fearmongering propaganda telling the Serbs of Croatia what would happen to them if they stay in Croatia.

@Ian UK, you seem to be very familiar with Serbian names. Interesting.
Have you ever spoken to Serbian refugees? Have you ever bothered to read anything besides western media?
Have you even met any Serbian refugees from any part of the former Yugoslavia?
Have you ever read anything on the subject written by John Pilger, Noam Chomsky, Scott Taylor, Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer?
Have you seen a documentary "Stolen Kosovo"?
In short have you ever bothered to listen to the Serbian side of the story? If so how, from whom and what have you read that is not from CNN, BBC, The Guardian or your 6 o'clock news?

@Ian UK, you seem to be very familiar with Serbian names. Interesting.
Have you ever spoken to Serbian refugees? Have you ever bothered to read anything besides western media?
Have you even met any Serbian refugees from any part of the former Yugoslavia?
Have you ever read anything on the subject written by John Pilger, Noam Chomsky, Scott Taylor, Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer?
Have you seen a documentary "Stolen Kosovo"?
In short have you ever bothered to listen to the Serbian side of the story? If so how, from whom and what have you read that is not from CNN, BBC, The Guardian or your 6 o'clock news?
(Peggy, 17 November 2012 09:05)

I'm familiar with Serbian names? How so? If it ends in 'vic' or 'ic' then there is a good chance that person is from former Yugo or has ancestral links there. That is about as far as my my knowledge goes on Serbian names.

No I have not met with Serbian refugees.

Yes I have read some of the works of the people you have mentioned, particularly Chomsky.
Yes I have seen that very biased film "Stolen Kosovo" on youtube as well as on RT.
Yes I have read upon the Serbian side of the story.

Where have I read upon it?

Well for starters B92 amongst other Serbian news sites, blogs and then we Russian Fox News in the UK aka Russia Today which constantly makes a point of showing the Serbian side of the story in former Yugo. I read countless amounts of English language none-western news websites based all over the world, not just B92.

"The Croats are the bravest people in the world, not because they are not afraid of anything, but because they are not ashamed of nothing" - Jovan Ducic

Sad to see that this decision of the court is actually fuelling bad feelings between Croats and Serbs also. What is to become of this world and the people who claim to know best for everyone else :(

Where is danilo bganon, bob and comm.parison to tell Serbs that this is a legit court and make legit decisions?

Lets not forget what this is all about, this is about victims, large majority of which were civilians who were ethnically cleansed from their homes.

Anyway who claims to have victims in mind should think twice before dancing upon the graves of those that didn't deserve to die or lose their houses.

Not that this matters, but I don't accept this verdict. Its an injustice and there are major flaws in the judges 'considerations':

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/hague-verdict-shows-it-is-good-to-be-criminal

Ian have you ever left England? Saying that some Serbs were able to stay and survive Storm is the equivalent of saying that because some Bosniaks live in RS today, no genocide happened. Those who were able to "stay" were "unable to leave". and many who "stayed" were subsequently "killed". I personally know many who "stayed" and were thrown in jail for years simply because they were Serbs and continue to live as second class citizens. The rest that are there now, returned after many years. Many haven't returned because many have no interest in returning. Can't say the same about Croats living in Vojvodina. So please, for the sake of your own intelligence, do try not to talk about an event you were far removed from and have no connection with. I personally know many people whose were victims of Storm. What you write is both a gross insensitivity as well as a diminishment of events. By your logic, anything that isn't ethnically pure today is a testament to multiethnic tolerance. You're going to have to come up with better reasoning than what you're giving now.

I expect that the ICTY (International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia) changes its name to ICTS (international Criminal Tribunal against Serbia).
What a shame!

@ Balkan AnthropoligistNo I used Census results as a source which many Serbs boycotted. They left for the same reason Croats and Bosniaks left, the War. And they were evacuated and some left because they didn't want to live in an independent Croatia.

No I have not met with Serbian refugees.
(Ian, UK, 17 November 2012 13:32)

Ah, therefore you have no grounds to pursue the faulty arguments you have. In fact, you're just as bad as someone who never met a Bosnian or Albanian refugee but questions their stories of victimhood and oppression. Tell you what, next time you travel to this part of Europe, look me up. We'll go visit some of those Storm victims and you can educate them that since there was no ethnic cleansing in 1994 and no need for them to have left, they can form a motorcade back to Croatia and claim all that was taken from them.

The quantitative third-party data you've read should more than take care of the emotional scars and bitter memories they hold. I'll even be kind enough to translate for them since you probably can't speak Serbian :)

Well i hope the Serbian Communists especially from belgrade will stop going to Croatia for Vacation, especially on the coast. This absolutely disgusts me, the Croats are taught to embrace nationalistic views and Serbs that do so are looked down upon. TITO ERA Serbs, believe that all this equality crap is good, it was a fairly tale that set Serbs up for a nightmare for their future. Anyways, this is what happens with Croats are more united with each other. Serbs on the other hand don't give a s***, let this be a lesson. Time for Serbs to start waking up and speaking the truth and raise speculation for this type of atrocity, because with two scum bags getting off as easy as they did, this is a sign for worse things to come for serbs.

@Ian UK, so I see that you have dismissed all you have seen and read which portrays Serbs as victims and not aggressors as lies. Not in any event have Serbs been victims, that is according to you. I know this because not once did you acknowledge that terrible crimes have been committed against the Serbs.
Serbs must be so powerful that they were able to inflict all the horror on the other three sides.
How powerful do you think the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia were? They certainly did not outnumber the others.
Do you honestly believe that Bosnian Muslims only had bows and arrows to fight with and no help from anyone else? Where do you think all the mujahadeens were?
Do you honestly believe that Croatia did not arm themselves by smuggling weapons across Hungarian border well before any war broke out?
You must think that the Serbs all came from Krypton. They would all have to be Supermen to inflict so much horror and the other sides were all helpless.
Unless you believe this then and only then can you say that there were no guilty amongst the other sides.
I have not yet seen one word from you acknowledging that Serbs were victims as well.
We Serbs here have acknowledged that crimes were committed by all sides, but we seem to be the only ones. Your lot cannot admit crimes of their own.
Finally, what makes you so sure that 'Stolen Kosovo' is not accurate?

...evacuated the Serbs during and following the decline of the Serbian Client State in Croatia.

(Ian, UK, 16 November 2012 14:34)

There was no war in Croatia durinf "evacuation", does it make senseto evacuate people at peace time?

Do not look to the apparatus of the world's justice system for answers, as your search there is futile. Within that system, evil routinely goes unpunished. Allow your heart to remain at peace and do not follow the reactionary habit of the ego; leave judgement to Universe.

"they won't be able to escape the wrath of God"

Are you sure somenthing like that does really exist? And of which one, since it seems they have another one:)

This court -which is full of 'freely' made available American and British judges and prosecutors- is one big sad joke.
(Joe A, 16 November 2012 12:44)

Interesting, since the court was created by Russia, China & co and the judges are elected by Russia, China & co. And we all know that Russia & China are Serbia's greatest allies and the enemies of US and UK, aren't they ?

How powerful do you think the Serbs of Croatia and Bosnia were?
(Peggy, 17 November 2012 15:00)

Based on Serbs' comments in these forums describing the great victories of Serbs' against everybody, evil Nato included and how everybody, evil Nato included, is all p... and wind, I do think that Serbs are very powerful.

Again Ian, try using your brain. Issuing a general order to 250,000 people to basically "run" is not an "evacuation". Try talking with Krajina Serb refugees one of these days. They'll tell you it was anything other than orderly, organized, and planned.
(Balkan Anthropologist, 16 November 2012 20:03)

Hmmm, I thought that when our fellow poster aaayyy makes the same argument for Kosovo's case in these forum, he/she is using his/her brain because the state has right to move people from the battlefield according to him/her.

I don't blame Croatia for this. I blame the ICTY and their western financiers, US and Germany. We have survived much worse than this. In fact,it will only make us stronger. The Croats know what theydid and how they did it. It is time for all Serbs to come together and take care of our vulnerable refugees. God bless Serbia.

Sorry about @IanUK , I assure you that his view however is that held by most of my countrymen due to the slanted coverage of the war during the nineties and very little followup information since. If one really wishes to get to learn about the Balkan conflicts (something which I have a passing knowledge of... enough to know that nobody hasn't got some blood on their hands - I'll leave it there to save further arguing) one has to go and look into it. Most people in the UK are too busy, or just not studying that area of the world to do anything other than regurgitate news reports.

Again, my apologies for my countryman, please don't think all people from the UK are as ignorant.

Bloody Laughable!! and Bloody Disgusting!
Its the hague tribunal that has confirmed what every Serb already knew but now all others know that it is a political court. Tadic go bury your head in the sand now because you sent Karadzic and Mladic to the hague. They are our heros and no Serb should ever forget this. This new Serbian Government should tread very carefully with US and EU while they blatantly and so openly wear wolves clothing.

The quantitative third-party data you've read should more than take care of the emotional scars and bitter memories they hold. I'll even be kind enough to translate for them since you probably can't speak Serbian :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 17 November 2012 16:05)
==================================
Ian only speaks Albanian, due to the fact that his family accommodated one refugee Albanian family from Kosovo who told them everything they needed to know.