President receives British foreign minister

want's to tell everyone that they have to hold the gay parade or he will get upset

Great Britain eh? Great in what? Wind bagging? This so called Great Britain is living in the past when Britannia did rule the waves, but today it’s a country that is not capable of fighting outside its own borders let alone dictating anything to Serbia.
Today the UK is what it is, a united kingdom about to fall apart, but due to political expediency it has deluded its people into believing they live in a country that is still powerful – the reality is, it’s not.
All this guy is doing is spending valuable pounds travelling the world talking crap as if anyone would listen to this hypocrite. Isn’t it wonderful that you get all these former colonial powers standing there saying I’m holier than thou while their history is bloodier and crueler than one can imagine.
Always remember that the British Empire always put the indigenous people last.

This man is a strong supporter of tearing Kosovo away from the rest of Serbia, therefore this man should be considered a foe of the Serbian state and the people. His visit to Serbia ought not to be welcomed but rather protested, if people were protesting the visit of the Pope (which they should) then his visit should also be protested. This man isn't welcome.

SCP UK do you ever get the feeling you are whistling into the wind?

Clinton, Ashton and Hague are all coming to Belgrade and nobody is protesting. Even more importantly why would they come if they didn't think their pressure on Kosovo is working and they need to keep pressuring...

Hague's Balkans policy is dictated by his Bosnian Muslim adviser. More anti-Serb bias can be expected.

"Clinton, Ashton and Hague are all coming to Belgrade and nobody is protesting. Even more importantly why would they come if they didn't think their pressure on Kosovo is working and they need to keep pressuring...
(bganon, 25 October 2012 14:24)"

One can also take the opposite view that it is precisely because they think that their pressure are jsut not working from afar that they had to made the trip to Belgrade to try up close.

bganon

I am talking out of a matter of principle, this man is coming to Serbia representing a country which participated in the bombing of Serbian people and funded albanian terrorists on the Serbian territory of Kosovo. And he isn't coming to apologise. You always come back with these types of statements, it is as if you feel uncomfortable when anyone speaks against western figures, why is this? People arn't protesting because they need to work, but I would feel confident in saying that the majority of those aware of his visit don't take kindly to it.

Iowe is correct, they need to make such visits solely because they are worried of the state of their influence, so they need to keep checking up on it.

Answer me this bganon, what is the problem with being opposed to the visit of a man representing a nation which has conspired against Serbia and its people, why should he be welcomed?

Every day we hear about some other important statesman who is going to visit Serbia. This could be a very good indicator of EU and USA perception about new Serbian government.

During his visit to Priština, the British minister said that "Europe is definite" and that "there can be no adjustments in the borders".
----------------------
Milosevic agreed to divide Kosovo and agreed to other compromises but the West bombed Serbia to take ALL of Kosovo and give it to Albanians.

Ian

I remember when Willie the Fairy was caught sleeping in the same bedroom with his adviser only to be Sussex out by the tabloids that there was only one double bed in the room.So I doubt Willie will end up in a brothel and most likely will end up in the"rent a boy" district.

"During his visit to Priština, the British minister said that "Europe is definite" and that "there can be no adjustments in the borders". "

How really "deinite" are the borders of Europe itself? .....

-- Scotland's 2014 referendum
-- Catalonia in Spain
-- The Flemings of Belgium
-- Greek and Turkish parts of Cyprus
-- Greenland http://www.euractiv.com/specialreport-rawmaterials/expert-foreign-interest-greenlan-news-514011

"During his visit to Priština, the British minister said that "Europe is definite" and that "there can be no adjustments in the borders".

Not actually true. What he means is no adjustment of borders without the agreement between the states involved themselves. It is not as if he wants to undo the sovereignty of the modern nation state, except that he already has by supporting the division of Serbia by force and not by negotiation. It is called having your cake and eating it.

These visits are to see if their threats will have any effect on the new government. Belgrade will be told it is all 'inevitable', which it clearly isn't if Belgrade doesn't agree. Almost no-one is proposing that NATO start killing Serb civilians again and imposing another settlement.

If Nikolic and co. are sensible then these threats and demands will be ignored. They are doing quite well at the moment by not giving a straight reply, which is the best strategy.

"encourage Serbian leaders to work on normalization of relations with Kosovo and fulfill criteria for the EU accession",

This means: UK has only hard demnads for Belgrade and the British government is loving symbolic signals, also that Belgrade is the LAST country to visit. British Forces were the first which trined the UCK and were also involved in Bosnia to support the Muslims against the Serbs. After this strategic decision the relations with Serbia will for many many years limited and will been seen under the interests of the allies from the Balkan, what they demand.

I hope William Hague addresses the terrible treatment of Roma in Serbia.
(Hans, 25 October 2012 13:37)

At least we dont perpetrate a holocaust against them as somebody else did...

PS: To give you a hint:those guys living between Frenchmen and Poles...

Great Britain was “Kosovo’s partner and friend”

The ranking of the visited countries says a lot: BiH, Kosovo and at the end Serbia. The happy Serbs about this dangerous visit where the Serbs will be confrónted with harsh demands from Britain. have not identified what is their role for countries like UK: to fullfil the demnad of BiH-muslims and Kosovo.

I'm no political supporter of William Hague in the UK, but he is an honourable man, one of the best Foreign Secretaries this country has ever had. I hope Serbia rejoins the European family very soon, its people deserve to. I wouldn't worry either about which Country he visited first. There is saying in hte UK, 'saving the best until last' - Serbia is his final country on this trip because you are the most important politically in this region so you Serbs relax.

Don't listen to what he says because his words aren't valid as he is from Rotherham!

I hope William Hague addresses the terrible treatment of Roma in Serbia.

"The ranking of the visited countries says a lot: BiH, Kosovo and at the end Serbia. The happy Serbs about this dangerous visit where the Serbs will be confrónted with harsh demands from Britain. have not identified what is their role for countries like UK: to fullfil the demnad of BiH-muslims and Kosovo.
(Greg, 25 October 2012 09:46) "

Can you substantiate your clauim that the "ranking of the visited countries says a lot"?

And why should the Belgrade government lose sleep over "harsh demands from Britain"?

Please also substantiate your claim that the Briton is in Serbia to "fulfil the demand of BiH-muslims and Kosovo."

Britain learn Serbian game.
1. British representative talk before state visit about change borders.
2. British foreign minister go on state visit to Belgrade, have nice chat with govt of Serbia.
3. After visit, forget subject of border change.
Foreign govts now understanding, how to deal with Serbian "partner".

lowe one could take the opposite view but evidence does not bear that view out considering the most recent statements on Kosovo and the meeting with Thaci. Even a Serb without any political understanding can see that something serious is going on here.

Besides, since when do powerful states decide that their pressure isn't working only months after a new government is elected?

Reply to (bganon, 25 October 2012 15:37)

So what evidence do you have to substantiate your version? You talk about “ the most recent statements on Kosovo” -- you mean such as these? http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2012&mm=10&dd=24&nav_id=82823
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2012&mm=10&dd=23&nav_id=82785
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2012&mm=10&dd=22&nav_id=82770

I would think that such recent statements support MT point of view much more than yours!

As for meeting Thaci apparently without even a courtesy handshake -- that's earth shaking proof that Serbia is about to capitulate big time????? Please!

As for your last point about "when do powerful states decide that their pressure isn't working only months after a new government is elected?" ..... well, by the same token I might also ask you to show us when do powerful states decide that their pressure IS working only months after a new government is elected?

I know you are likely wishing with all your might for the Serbians to capitulate hence your selective interpretation of the events -- which I find far-fetched, politely put.

lowe, you just said that Serbia was about to capitulate, I didn't. I welcome the fact that Dacic is going further than Tadic ever did in seeking a deal with Kosovo Albanians.

The previous government's official position was the respect of 1244 and the upholding of Serbian territorial integrity over all of Kosovo. Most Serbs and the majority of Serb sympathetic posters here supported that. Do you?

The new government position is to recognise the situation on the ground. What I'm saying is that what was unofficial policy of partition has become official policy. I support that as the least worst solution. Are you not worried that Dacic will give away too much - its all being done behind closed doors. Anyway its good you support Dacic's position on Kosovo.

Why by the way why do you think that SRS and DSS opposes Dacic's latest position on Kosovo? By mentioning this are they also wishing that Serbia 'capitulates' too? I've got no wish that Serbia 'capitulates' on Kosovo, nor have ever expressed such a wish. There's no need for such nervousness and start accusing without foundation.

SCP UK, I don't care about western figures. If you want to be concerned with them and trying to get an impossible apology thats good luck to you. I don't make a habit of lost causes. And who said there was a problem with opposing an official visit of Hague, Clinton, or anybody else? What I asked you was do you ever get the feeling you are whistling into the wind?

Serbia entered the final stage of the talks with Priština after the meeting between Ivica Dačić and Hashim Thaci in Brussels last week, said Nikolić."

Wow Serbia entered the "final stage of the talks" which has not started yet. It could mean: give me the capitulation, I will sign now. Again Serbian comedy.

"while Hague confirmed that London was still strongly in favour of EU enlargement".

B92

Perhaps president Nikolic should've asked Hague whether the above statement corresponds with statements he made only two days earlier.Only last Monday Hague told a Berlin audience that " there is a deep disillusionment with the EU in UK" and on Tuesday he unveiled details of a review he has ordered for European powers to be repatriated back in UK.This review will consider 32 specific issues-starting with taxation,health,justice and foreign policy-and will produce a detailed report that will enable his party to demand specific powers to be returned to Westminster.In fact such a report will make it easier for UK to withdraw from the sinking ship.

Double standards? Judge for yourselves.

Serbia is willing to accept all solutions that improve the life of the people in Kosovo and are in line with Serbia's Constitution, Nikolić noted, the president's press service has released.
This constitution? http://www.venice.coe.int/docs/2007/CDL-AD%282007%29004-e.pdf

We know nothing and nothing we will know until the serbian platform is presented and that will only happen when having the dialogue with Pristina. The pressure on serbia is bigger then ever and i think they are doing a good job keeping it together. The Border should not be moved and kosovo should stay as one part, well, why?? i will let you think on that one. And i think serbian move to be neutral is the best move in history. That country as i think will grow fast and strong in only some years.

Their coming because Serbia is shunned even by its neighbours with likes of Tomislav and Ivica. As perpetrators of a criminal war expansionism Serbia from the 1990's. Now EU is playing the good cop if you play ball you can be reformed Ivica and Tomislav http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPDpN6xiQiE . They want to be known as statesman not as con material. Probably even have evidence of their criminal war past of the two sweet Serb hearts.

(LOL) Hague telling Serbia to move closer to the EU, well his country moves farther away. The English are no friends of Serbs,(sell us out in a moment).They are some of the biggest HYPOCRITES in history. Beware Serbia England is no FRIEND !

lowe you spoke of capitulation - words from your mouth, surely you would not have mentioned this at all if you were not worried about it? And to be concerned with a handshake right now, really? Do you really believe a handshake is necessary to sell out? Utterly foolish belief, history is littered with bad deals without a handshake.

As far as EU entry is concerned William Hague said that if Serbia continues with these steps in the short term then December would be start of talks to join the EU, Novosti said the same thing. And in case you didn't notice Dacic being 'vocal' about something is not a reason to believe him.

I'll leave you with this if Vesna Pesic supports Dacic's government policy on Kosovo and both DSS and SRS oppose it, what makes you think you understand whats going on better than they do?

lowe I said 'why would they come if they didn't think their pressure on Kosovo is working' - now thats not only putting words in my mouth or quoting out of context, you actually made up your own sentence and attributed it to me! Somebody who is mistaken can be forgiven but you have made yourself look stupid by lying like this, above all because it can be easily verified by looking below...

I asked a question and you started this nonsense about capitulation. Thats all there is to it. There is nothing more to discuss on this point.

'Did I claim to know more about Kosovo than Vesna Pesic, DSS or SRS?'. Now this is getting silly, who said knowing more about Kosovo? I said what makes you think you understand more about the situation (Serbian government policy on Kosovo, not about Kosovo) than they do? But ok in case you admit you don't know as much about it than they do, in that case perhaps they are right and you are wrong, did you ever think of that?

I'll be honest with you, I always had some respect for your views, even if I didn't agree with some of them. I'm sorry to say I was wrong about that.

To leave you with from the conditional date article on B92:

'Serbia is expected to fully implement the agreement on the integrated management of administrative crossings, withdraw its security and judicial structures from northern Kosovo, continue the dialogue..'

If the government does this will you support them still? Just don't say you were not warned...

lowe you can spin and 'interpret' any way you want, I'm not interested in your excuses.

However, you deliberately lied by putting quotation marks around a sentence you made up. Its not important what I think of you. What is important is that you deliberately made some crap up and got caught doing it...

You have to learn that having an opinion and lying are two separate things. I respect the former but don't have any time for the latter.

Reply to (bganon, 25 October 2012 17:55)

I didn’t say that Serbia was about to capitulate. I ASKED you whether a mere meeting where they didn’t even apparently shake hands would amount to that – you do know what is the meaning of a QUESTION MARK which I wrote plenty in that sentence, don’t you? Don't words into my mouth!

There is already a de facto partition at the Ibar since 1999. How could the new government not “recognize the situation on the ground” as you put it when that meek Tadic’s administration already signed agreements on behalf of Serbia with Eulex and Pristina that they do not like????? Being realistic by honouring agreements (ie. making the best out of unfavorable deals by the previous governments as far as possible) is not the same as capitulation. If anything, methinks the present government has been even more vocal about not recognizing Pristina even if it meant no EU entry than Tadic ever dared to be. Actually I thought a partition would be the most sensible solution – which the West opposed – and which, unlike meek Tadic, the current government was not afraid to suggest publicly in the face of Western displeasure.

So whether “Dacic will give away too much” is not something that I am overly concerned with. Methinks on the whole the current Belgrade government does seem to have more backbone when standing up to German and other implicit blackmail over Kosovo compared with Tadic, which is good for Serbia.

Reply to (bganon, 25 October 2012 17:55)

I didn’t say that Serbia was about to capitulate. I ASKED you whether a mere meeting where they didn’t even apparently shake hands would amount to that – you do know what is the meaning of a QUESTION MARK which I wrote plenty in that sentence, don’t you? Stop putting words into my mouth!

There is already a de facto partition at the Ibar since 1999. How could the new government not “recognize the situation on the ground” as you put it when that meek Tadic’s administration already signed agreements on behalf of Serbia with Eulex and Pristina that they do not like????? Being realistic by honouring agreements (ie. making the best out of unfavorable deals by the previous governments as far as possible) is not the same as capitulation. If anything, methinks the present government has been even more vocal about not recognizing Pristina even if it meant no EU entry than Tadic ever dared to be. Actually I thought a partition would be the most sensible solution – which the West opposed – and which, unlike meek Tadic, the current government was not afraid to suggest publicly in the face of Western displeasure.

So whether “Dacic will give away too much” is not something that I am overly concerned with. Methinks on the whole the current Belgrade government does seem to have more backbone when standing up to German and other implicit blackmail over Kosovo compared with Tadic, which is good for Serbia.

reply to (bganon, 26 October 2012 12:06)

I ASKED you a QUESTION about capitulation and handshake -- that's NOT the same as advocating capitulation! I asked you about that because YOU claimed on 25 October that Clinton, Ashton and Hague are all coming to Belgrade “because their pressure on Kosovo is working ..….” -- surely the only way that their pressure is working (as YOU stated) is if Serbia is going to capitulate, right? So, in fact it is YOU who are implying about Serbian capitulation, NOT me!!!

Hague and Novosti said things – so what? You conveniently forget that they are NOT the Serbian government! And only the Serbian government can ultimately decide to follow them or not.

Did I claim to know more about Kosovo than Vesna Pesic, DSS or SRS? Show me where I ever made that claim.

UK is now a kind of outlaw with zero influence in the EU

Reply to (bganon, 26 October 2012 13:49)

Your exact words were “Clinton, Ashton and Hague are all coming to Belgrade and nobody is protesting. Even more importantly why would they come if they didn't think their pressure on Kosovo is working and they need to keep pressuring...”

Well, your “nobody is protesting” would imply that the Serbians have given up (ie. Capitulate) right? Your second sentence implied that they are coming because they think their pressure is working, which, combined with your earlier sentence, would imply that the Serbians agree with them that their pressure is working and hence the Serbians are about to give up. So who is being stupid and lying now? Certainly not me!

By asking me what makes me think that I understand the situation more than they do, are you not implying that I think I know more than them????? Which is why I asked you to show me where did ever made such a claim. And which you were not able to show.

You are entitled to your opinion about my views JUST AS I AM ENTITLED TO MY OPINION ABOUT YOURS. And you need not be sorry (as you claimed) – what makes you think I value your opinion about me? Please don’t give yourself airs!

AS for B92’s article, did Belgrade confirm that it will do all those things just because somebody else said them? Aren't you counting your chickens before they hatch?

Lenard

you are one to talk of war criminals yourself being from a country that has perpetrated some of the most hidious war crimes in European history!

Whatever the Serbs might or might not have done in the 90's, Croatia's war crimes are huge in comparison so you should choose your words carefully. No-one will forget what your people did and one day you will pay for it once your NATO buddies have left the stage.

Today the UK is what it is, a united kingdom about to fall apart, but due to political expediency it has deluded its people into believing they live in a country that is still powerful
(sj, 25 October 2012 13:18)

I fully agreee... People in the UK, US and all countries which are perceived to not support Serbia are very ignorant, oppressed by their governments into believing things that are not true due to the fact that all media is controlled by the government. On the other side, see for example countries like China where people are so free and have access to many independent sources of information, even critical to their own government, and able to freely vote to make choices about who should govern them. China is the future and hopefully all the world will follow its example :)

He is just on a farewell tour. When there is a referendum in the UK chances are big that the Brits will NO to the EU. Then Scotland wants out of the UK and join the EU. Regions in Spain want to secede from Spain and cite Kosovo as an example. Next Flanders and other regions. But no, the borders in Europe will not change, he says. Just like marriage, you can't force people to live with each other when they don't want to.

reply to (bganon, 26 October 2012 17:47)

You are the one who is lying – and blatantly too!

I quoted you CORRECTLY when I first wrote that you said ““because their pressure on Kosovo is working ..….”. I quoted this PART of what you wrote because I thought it was the part most relevant to the point that I was making.

Later, when you conveniently failed to see the light and accused me of misquoting you, I then quoted you in FULL “Clinton, Ashton and Hague are all coming to Belgrade and nobody is protesting. Even more importantly why would they come if they didn't think their pressure on Kosovo is working and they need to keep pressuring...” And I then a fuller explanation on the issue.

Anyone who is not blind will clearly see that I quoted you correctly both times! In both cases, I believed that I showed the holes in your arguments. I put it to you that you have no credible counterarguments to refute me – and are therefore now resorting to accusing me of lying. Anyone who read our posts will see who is the one who is really lying here – YOU!

I hope William Hague addresses the terrible treatment of Roma in Serbia.

Hague's Balkans policy is dictated by his Bosnian Muslim adviser. More anti-Serb bias can be expected.

I'm no political supporter of William Hague in the UK, but he is an honourable man, one of the best Foreign Secretaries this country has ever had. I hope Serbia rejoins the European family very soon, its people deserve to. I wouldn't worry either about which Country he visited first. There is saying in hte UK, 'saving the best until last' - Serbia is his final country on this trip because you are the most important politically in this region so you Serbs relax.

Don't listen to what he says because his words aren't valid as he is from Rotherham!

Great Britain was “Kosovo’s partner and friend”

The ranking of the visited countries says a lot: BiH, Kosovo and at the end Serbia. The happy Serbs about this dangerous visit where the Serbs will be confrónted with harsh demands from Britain. have not identified what is their role for countries like UK: to fullfil the demnad of BiH-muslims and Kosovo.

This man is a strong supporter of tearing Kosovo away from the rest of Serbia, therefore this man should be considered a foe of the Serbian state and the people. His visit to Serbia ought not to be welcomed but rather protested, if people were protesting the visit of the Pope (which they should) then his visit should also be protested. This man isn't welcome.

During his visit to Priština, the British minister said that "Europe is definite" and that "there can be no adjustments in the borders".
----------------------
Milosevic agreed to divide Kosovo and agreed to other compromises but the West bombed Serbia to take ALL of Kosovo and give it to Albanians.

Great Britain eh? Great in what? Wind bagging? This so called Great Britain is living in the past when Britannia did rule the waves, but today it’s a country that is not capable of fighting outside its own borders let alone dictating anything to Serbia.
Today the UK is what it is, a united kingdom about to fall apart, but due to political expediency it has deluded its people into believing they live in a country that is still powerful – the reality is, it’s not.
All this guy is doing is spending valuable pounds travelling the world talking crap as if anyone would listen to this hypocrite. Isn’t it wonderful that you get all these former colonial powers standing there saying I’m holier than thou while their history is bloodier and crueler than one can imagine.
Always remember that the British Empire always put the indigenous people last.

"Clinton, Ashton and Hague are all coming to Belgrade and nobody is protesting. Even more importantly why would they come if they didn't think their pressure on Kosovo is working and they need to keep pressuring...
(bganon, 25 October 2012 14:24)"

One can also take the opposite view that it is precisely because they think that their pressure are jsut not working from afar that they had to made the trip to Belgrade to try up close.

Britain learn Serbian game.
1. British representative talk before state visit about change borders.
2. British foreign minister go on state visit to Belgrade, have nice chat with govt of Serbia.
3. After visit, forget subject of border change.
Foreign govts now understanding, how to deal with Serbian "partner".

Their coming because Serbia is shunned even by its neighbours with likes of Tomislav and Ivica. As perpetrators of a criminal war expansionism Serbia from the 1990's. Now EU is playing the good cop if you play ball you can be reformed Ivica and Tomislav http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPDpN6xiQiE . They want to be known as statesman not as con material. Probably even have evidence of their criminal war past of the two sweet Serb hearts.

Serbia entered the final stage of the talks with Priština after the meeting between Ivica Dačić and Hashim Thaci in Brussels last week, said Nikolić."

Wow Serbia entered the "final stage of the talks" which has not started yet. It could mean: give me the capitulation, I will sign now. Again Serbian comedy.

bganon

I am talking out of a matter of principle, this man is coming to Serbia representing a country which participated in the bombing of Serbian people and funded albanian terrorists on the Serbian territory of Kosovo. And he isn't coming to apologise. You always come back with these types of statements, it is as if you feel uncomfortable when anyone speaks against western figures, why is this? People arn't protesting because they need to work, but I would feel confident in saying that the majority of those aware of his visit don't take kindly to it.

Iowe is correct, they need to make such visits solely because they are worried of the state of their influence, so they need to keep checking up on it.

Answer me this bganon, what is the problem with being opposed to the visit of a man representing a nation which has conspired against Serbia and its people, why should he be welcomed?

SCP UK do you ever get the feeling you are whistling into the wind?

Clinton, Ashton and Hague are all coming to Belgrade and nobody is protesting. Even more importantly why would they come if they didn't think their pressure on Kosovo is working and they need to keep pressuring...

I hope William Hague addresses the terrible treatment of Roma in Serbia.
(Hans, 25 October 2012 13:37)

At least we dont perpetrate a holocaust against them as somebody else did...

PS: To give you a hint:those guys living between Frenchmen and Poles...

Reply to (bganon, 25 October 2012 15:37)

So what evidence do you have to substantiate your version? You talk about “ the most recent statements on Kosovo” -- you mean such as these? http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2012&mm=10&dd=24&nav_id=82823
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2012&mm=10&dd=23&nav_id=82785
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2012&mm=10&dd=22&nav_id=82770

I would think that such recent statements support MT point of view much more than yours!

As for meeting Thaci apparently without even a courtesy handshake -- that's earth shaking proof that Serbia is about to capitulate big time????? Please!

As for your last point about "when do powerful states decide that their pressure isn't working only months after a new government is elected?" ..... well, by the same token I might also ask you to show us when do powerful states decide that their pressure IS working only months after a new government is elected?

I know you are likely wishing with all your might for the Serbians to capitulate hence your selective interpretation of the events -- which I find far-fetched, politely put.

want's to tell everyone that they have to hold the gay parade or he will get upset

"During his visit to Priština, the British minister said that "Europe is definite" and that "there can be no adjustments in the borders". "

How really "deinite" are the borders of Europe itself? .....

-- Scotland's 2014 referendum
-- Catalonia in Spain
-- The Flemings of Belgium
-- Greek and Turkish parts of Cyprus
-- Greenland http://www.euractiv.com/specialreport-rawmaterials/expert-foreign-interest-greenlan-news-514011

We know nothing and nothing we will know until the serbian platform is presented and that will only happen when having the dialogue with Pristina. The pressure on serbia is bigger then ever and i think they are doing a good job keeping it together. The Border should not be moved and kosovo should stay as one part, well, why?? i will let you think on that one. And i think serbian move to be neutral is the best move in history. That country as i think will grow fast and strong in only some years.

lowe one could take the opposite view but evidence does not bear that view out considering the most recent statements on Kosovo and the meeting with Thaci. Even a Serb without any political understanding can see that something serious is going on here.

Besides, since when do powerful states decide that their pressure isn't working only months after a new government is elected?

Every day we hear about some other important statesman who is going to visit Serbia. This could be a very good indicator of EU and USA perception about new Serbian government.

"During his visit to Priština, the British minister said that "Europe is definite" and that "there can be no adjustments in the borders".

Not actually true. What he means is no adjustment of borders without the agreement between the states involved themselves. It is not as if he wants to undo the sovereignty of the modern nation state, except that he already has by supporting the division of Serbia by force and not by negotiation. It is called having your cake and eating it.

These visits are to see if their threats will have any effect on the new government. Belgrade will be told it is all 'inevitable', which it clearly isn't if Belgrade doesn't agree. Almost no-one is proposing that NATO start killing Serb civilians again and imposing another settlement.

If Nikolic and co. are sensible then these threats and demands will be ignored. They are doing quite well at the moment by not giving a straight reply, which is the best strategy.

"The ranking of the visited countries says a lot: BiH, Kosovo and at the end Serbia. The happy Serbs about this dangerous visit where the Serbs will be confrónted with harsh demands from Britain. have not identified what is their role for countries like UK: to fullfil the demnad of BiH-muslims and Kosovo.
(Greg, 25 October 2012 09:46) "

Can you substantiate your clauim that the "ranking of the visited countries says a lot"?

And why should the Belgrade government lose sleep over "harsh demands from Britain"?

Please also substantiate your claim that the Briton is in Serbia to "fulfil the demand of BiH-muslims and Kosovo."

"encourage Serbian leaders to work on normalization of relations with Kosovo and fulfill criteria for the EU accession",

This means: UK has only hard demnads for Belgrade and the British government is loving symbolic signals, also that Belgrade is the LAST country to visit. British Forces were the first which trined the UCK and were also involved in Bosnia to support the Muslims against the Serbs. After this strategic decision the relations with Serbia will for many many years limited and will been seen under the interests of the allies from the Balkan, what they demand.

lowe, you just said that Serbia was about to capitulate, I didn't. I welcome the fact that Dacic is going further than Tadic ever did in seeking a deal with Kosovo Albanians.

The previous government's official position was the respect of 1244 and the upholding of Serbian territorial integrity over all of Kosovo. Most Serbs and the majority of Serb sympathetic posters here supported that. Do you?

The new government position is to recognise the situation on the ground. What I'm saying is that what was unofficial policy of partition has become official policy. I support that as the least worst solution. Are you not worried that Dacic will give away too much - its all being done behind closed doors. Anyway its good you support Dacic's position on Kosovo.

Why by the way why do you think that SRS and DSS opposes Dacic's latest position on Kosovo? By mentioning this are they also wishing that Serbia 'capitulates' too? I've got no wish that Serbia 'capitulates' on Kosovo, nor have ever expressed such a wish. There's no need for such nervousness and start accusing without foundation.

SCP UK, I don't care about western figures. If you want to be concerned with them and trying to get an impossible apology thats good luck to you. I don't make a habit of lost causes. And who said there was a problem with opposing an official visit of Hague, Clinton, or anybody else? What I asked you was do you ever get the feeling you are whistling into the wind?

Ian

I remember when Willie the Fairy was caught sleeping in the same bedroom with his adviser only to be Sussex out by the tabloids that there was only one double bed in the room.So I doubt Willie will end up in a brothel and most likely will end up in the"rent a boy" district.

Today the UK is what it is, a united kingdom about to fall apart, but due to political expediency it has deluded its people into believing they live in a country that is still powerful
(sj, 25 October 2012 13:18)

I fully agreee... People in the UK, US and all countries which are perceived to not support Serbia are very ignorant, oppressed by their governments into believing things that are not true due to the fact that all media is controlled by the government. On the other side, see for example countries like China where people are so free and have access to many independent sources of information, even critical to their own government, and able to freely vote to make choices about who should govern them. China is the future and hopefully all the world will follow its example :)

Reply to (bganon, 25 October 2012 17:55)

I didn’t say that Serbia was about to capitulate. I ASKED you whether a mere meeting where they didn’t even apparently shake hands would amount to that – you do know what is the meaning of a QUESTION MARK which I wrote plenty in that sentence, don’t you? Don't words into my mouth!

There is already a de facto partition at the Ibar since 1999. How could the new government not “recognize the situation on the ground” as you put it when that meek Tadic’s administration already signed agreements on behalf of Serbia with Eulex and Pristina that they do not like????? Being realistic by honouring agreements (ie. making the best out of unfavorable deals by the previous governments as far as possible) is not the same as capitulation. If anything, methinks the present government has been even more vocal about not recognizing Pristina even if it meant no EU entry than Tadic ever dared to be. Actually I thought a partition would be the most sensible solution – which the West opposed – and which, unlike meek Tadic, the current government was not afraid to suggest publicly in the face of Western displeasure.

So whether “Dacic will give away too much” is not something that I am overly concerned with. Methinks on the whole the current Belgrade government does seem to have more backbone when standing up to German and other implicit blackmail over Kosovo compared with Tadic, which is good for Serbia.

Reply to (bganon, 25 October 2012 17:55)

I didn’t say that Serbia was about to capitulate. I ASKED you whether a mere meeting where they didn’t even apparently shake hands would amount to that – you do know what is the meaning of a QUESTION MARK which I wrote plenty in that sentence, don’t you? Stop putting words into my mouth!

There is already a de facto partition at the Ibar since 1999. How could the new government not “recognize the situation on the ground” as you put it when that meek Tadic’s administration already signed agreements on behalf of Serbia with Eulex and Pristina that they do not like????? Being realistic by honouring agreements (ie. making the best out of unfavorable deals by the previous governments as far as possible) is not the same as capitulation. If anything, methinks the present government has been even more vocal about not recognizing Pristina even if it meant no EU entry than Tadic ever dared to be. Actually I thought a partition would be the most sensible solution – which the West opposed – and which, unlike meek Tadic, the current government was not afraid to suggest publicly in the face of Western displeasure.

So whether “Dacic will give away too much” is not something that I am overly concerned with. Methinks on the whole the current Belgrade government does seem to have more backbone when standing up to German and other implicit blackmail over Kosovo compared with Tadic, which is good for Serbia.

reply to (bganon, 26 October 2012 12:06)

I ASKED you a QUESTION about capitulation and handshake -- that's NOT the same as advocating capitulation! I asked you about that because YOU claimed on 25 October that Clinton, Ashton and Hague are all coming to Belgrade “because their pressure on Kosovo is working ..….” -- surely the only way that their pressure is working (as YOU stated) is if Serbia is going to capitulate, right? So, in fact it is YOU who are implying about Serbian capitulation, NOT me!!!

Hague and Novosti said things – so what? You conveniently forget that they are NOT the Serbian government! And only the Serbian government can ultimately decide to follow them or not.

Did I claim to know more about Kosovo than Vesna Pesic, DSS or SRS? Show me where I ever made that claim.

Reply to (bganon, 26 October 2012 13:49)

Your exact words were “Clinton, Ashton and Hague are all coming to Belgrade and nobody is protesting. Even more importantly why would they come if they didn't think their pressure on Kosovo is working and they need to keep pressuring...”

Well, your “nobody is protesting” would imply that the Serbians have given up (ie. Capitulate) right? Your second sentence implied that they are coming because they think their pressure is working, which, combined with your earlier sentence, would imply that the Serbians agree with them that their pressure is working and hence the Serbians are about to give up. So who is being stupid and lying now? Certainly not me!

By asking me what makes me think that I understand the situation more than they do, are you not implying that I think I know more than them????? Which is why I asked you to show me where did ever made such a claim. And which you were not able to show.

You are entitled to your opinion about my views JUST AS I AM ENTITLED TO MY OPINION ABOUT YOURS. And you need not be sorry (as you claimed) – what makes you think I value your opinion about me? Please don’t give yourself airs!

AS for B92’s article, did Belgrade confirm that it will do all those things just because somebody else said them? Aren't you counting your chickens before they hatch?

"while Hague confirmed that London was still strongly in favour of EU enlargement".

B92

Perhaps president Nikolic should've asked Hague whether the above statement corresponds with statements he made only two days earlier.Only last Monday Hague told a Berlin audience that " there is a deep disillusionment with the EU in UK" and on Tuesday he unveiled details of a review he has ordered for European powers to be repatriated back in UK.This review will consider 32 specific issues-starting with taxation,health,justice and foreign policy-and will produce a detailed report that will enable his party to demand specific powers to be returned to Westminster.In fact such a report will make it easier for UK to withdraw from the sinking ship.

Double standards? Judge for yourselves.

Serbia is willing to accept all solutions that improve the life of the people in Kosovo and are in line with Serbia's Constitution, Nikolić noted, the president's press service has released.
This constitution? http://www.venice.coe.int/docs/2007/CDL-AD%282007%29004-e.pdf

lowe you spoke of capitulation - words from your mouth, surely you would not have mentioned this at all if you were not worried about it? And to be concerned with a handshake right now, really? Do you really believe a handshake is necessary to sell out? Utterly foolish belief, history is littered with bad deals without a handshake.

As far as EU entry is concerned William Hague said that if Serbia continues with these steps in the short term then December would be start of talks to join the EU, Novosti said the same thing. And in case you didn't notice Dacic being 'vocal' about something is not a reason to believe him.

I'll leave you with this if Vesna Pesic supports Dacic's government policy on Kosovo and both DSS and SRS oppose it, what makes you think you understand whats going on better than they do?

lowe I said 'why would they come if they didn't think their pressure on Kosovo is working' - now thats not only putting words in my mouth or quoting out of context, you actually made up your own sentence and attributed it to me! Somebody who is mistaken can be forgiven but you have made yourself look stupid by lying like this, above all because it can be easily verified by looking below...

I asked a question and you started this nonsense about capitulation. Thats all there is to it. There is nothing more to discuss on this point.

'Did I claim to know more about Kosovo than Vesna Pesic, DSS or SRS?'. Now this is getting silly, who said knowing more about Kosovo? I said what makes you think you understand more about the situation (Serbian government policy on Kosovo, not about Kosovo) than they do? But ok in case you admit you don't know as much about it than they do, in that case perhaps they are right and you are wrong, did you ever think of that?

I'll be honest with you, I always had some respect for your views, even if I didn't agree with some of them. I'm sorry to say I was wrong about that.

To leave you with from the conditional date article on B92:

'Serbia is expected to fully implement the agreement on the integrated management of administrative crossings, withdraw its security and judicial structures from northern Kosovo, continue the dialogue..'

If the government does this will you support them still? Just don't say you were not warned...

lowe you can spin and 'interpret' any way you want, I'm not interested in your excuses.

However, you deliberately lied by putting quotation marks around a sentence you made up. Its not important what I think of you. What is important is that you deliberately made some crap up and got caught doing it...

You have to learn that having an opinion and lying are two separate things. I respect the former but don't have any time for the latter.

(LOL) Hague telling Serbia to move closer to the EU, well his country moves farther away. The English are no friends of Serbs,(sell us out in a moment).They are some of the biggest HYPOCRITES in history. Beware Serbia England is no FRIEND !

Lenard

you are one to talk of war criminals yourself being from a country that has perpetrated some of the most hidious war crimes in European history!

Whatever the Serbs might or might not have done in the 90's, Croatia's war crimes are huge in comparison so you should choose your words carefully. No-one will forget what your people did and one day you will pay for it once your NATO buddies have left the stage.

He is just on a farewell tour. When there is a referendum in the UK chances are big that the Brits will NO to the EU. Then Scotland wants out of the UK and join the EU. Regions in Spain want to secede from Spain and cite Kosovo as an example. Next Flanders and other regions. But no, the borders in Europe will not change, he says. Just like marriage, you can't force people to live with each other when they don't want to.

UK is now a kind of outlaw with zero influence in the EU

reply to (bganon, 26 October 2012 17:47)

You are the one who is lying – and blatantly too!

I quoted you CORRECTLY when I first wrote that you said ““because their pressure on Kosovo is working ..….”. I quoted this PART of what you wrote because I thought it was the part most relevant to the point that I was making.

Later, when you conveniently failed to see the light and accused me of misquoting you, I then quoted you in FULL “Clinton, Ashton and Hague are all coming to Belgrade and nobody is protesting. Even more importantly why would they come if they didn't think their pressure on Kosovo is working and they need to keep pressuring...” And I then a fuller explanation on the issue.

Anyone who is not blind will clearly see that I quoted you correctly both times! In both cases, I believed that I showed the holes in your arguments. I put it to you that you have no credible counterarguments to refute me – and are therefore now resorting to accusing me of lying. Anyone who read our posts will see who is the one who is really lying here – YOU!