Former Belgrade team chief Borislav Stefanović says that the Serbian government is not obligated to implement agreements that have been reached with Priština.
"The Russians are now openly telling anyone that will listen that they look like supplying anywhere between 65% and 70% of all energy needs to Europe.
(sj, 24 September 2012 14:28) "
Pipe dreams. Russia's share of the gas supplied to Europe fell from 49% in 2000 to 32% in 2010 and is expected to fall further http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/cumbersome-gazprom-losing-its-clout/2012/09/23/adf7ec08-fcf8-11e1-8adc-499661afe377_story.html?hpid=z4 Europe is not desperate for South Stream to come on line. As a FT headline had it, "Russia faces challenges to gas supremacy."
The expansion of liquified natural gas from Africa, the Arab states, and now the United States is going to help bring gas prices down in Europe. (The U.S. produced more gas last year than Russia, but has only started exporting it.) Gazprom is not only not going to be Europe's only provider, it's not even going to be the cheapest one. But the biggest problem for Russia will be the shale gas deposits in Poland, the Ukraine, Romania, and Bulgaria. Europe is not going to end up at the mercy of Russia and its uncertain politics.
“south stream will supply gas to the poorest region of Europe. It is limited in its distribution range and is merely a money making project for Russia and in no way has a choke hold on ALL of Europe”
This is why I don’t bother too much these days in debating you guys.
Let’s take you through South stream. It comes out in Bulgaria a branch line goes to Greece and then to Italy. The main line will proceed from Bulgaria through Serbia where branch lines will go RS, Macedonia, and rest of BiH. From Belgrade a line will proceed to Hungary and another through Croatia both will bypass Austria and go to Slovenia to Italy and expanded to France.
There will be no other lines in Europe as Nabucco is a pipe dream now. The Russians are now openly telling anyone that will listen that they look like supplying anywhere between 65% and 70% of all energy needs to Europe.
I’m so fascinated by comments such as “Russia as it takes over more and more of their property and assets” as if the west does things out of pure love.. One thing the Russian people have a very deep affection for Serbs and they have never bombed us unlike your allies the US which has left depleted uranium for your Albanians to breath and die of cancers (highest in Europe today)
Please no stories with moral overtones such as ‘Jabez Stone. This is the usual US BS on morality for the masses while they
Stefanovic is absolutely right: his initial on a agreement which was not signed or ratified means nothing in legal terms, but interesting is the statement of the deputy PM who says Serbia is now bound to the agreement by this meanigless initials...it is the way the new government will introduce with no responsibility agreements which are seriously demaging the situation an the ground for Serbia: this is the only interest of NATO/EU to push Serbia to accept this...this was also no agreement, it was imposed by the "mediator" Cooper and Tadic has accepted it knowing that it was absolutely against Serbias interests
If you have a joint boarder management with a state, how you can avoid to recognize it as independent stae and how you can convience thirs states that they should not see it as recognition...Serbia is doing the same like ever:..playing, but not good, like in soccer
The Russians would NEVER allow Serbia to join if it’s not in their interests and Moscow knows that they will control Europe through gas and oil as soon as South stream goes through in 2014.
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
While the rest of your comment is typical bs, Your first sentence here I am glad to see as you have revealed reality to your fellow citizens that major choices are not their own but that of Russia as it takes over more and more of their property and assets. They are on the verge of learning exactly what it is like to have their lives controlled without voice, similar to the Albanians in Kosovo 1990, ironic you think.
The 2nd part, surely you know better, the south stream will supply gas to the poorest region of Europe. It is limited in its distribution range and is merely a money making project for Russia and in no way has a choke hold on ALL of Europe. Like having a noose on a toe or something a nuisance to deal with but even if you sever the toe you will still survive. The rest of Europe is already supplied by other lines. Also, the South stream will afford Serbia zero extra control over anything, it is a link in the chain and if that link should become an issue Russia will come into reinforce it so as not to inhibit a smooth operation.
As "Jabez Stone" learned getting what you want by selling your soul sounds like a fantastic idea at first. You get what you want but there comes a time you pay the very high price.
Witch war between Serbian government and the opposition, the latter now as camouflage and to save face, that allegedly has not made concessions on Kosovo, so that current government can supersede every agreement and declare for nothing. Pretty crafty this Borko, instead of both sides to say Serbian people that Kosovo is now independent state and we have to accept.
The Russians would NEVER allow Serbia to join if it’s not in their interests
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
I thought that Serbia is a powerful country, the greatest country of the Balkans, and proud and heroic Serbs will never allow to be servants of others. But since the above is coming from you who are the CE of the B92 forums, I was obviously wrong. Thanks sj for illuminating our minds.
----------
Moscow knows that they will control Europe through gas and oil as soon as South stream goes through in 2014.
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
That's dangerous... that means that Europe will also control Moscow. You, as CE of B92 forums, know very well from your distinguished experience at your Malaysian Merchant bank that cash is the king :)
----------
The time to have forced Serbia to accept a separate Kosovo was in the early days after NATO occupation of that region – NOT today.
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
That's not possible. We're told in these forums that the 1999 war was a great victory for the heroic Serbia. So the early days after that war were the worst time to impose anything on the victorious Serbia.
----------
Here is living proof that Belgrade will wipe the mud of their boots with these agreements as it should..
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
Absolutely correct... unfortunately Stefanovic is no longer in power to do that and that traitor of Ivica in implementing traitorous agreements by blaming others for them.
What a cynical statement of Borko Stefanovic. The EU expectes us to honor the agreement. If we want to be a part of EU, then we must accept already agreed.
This one of the rare occasions where I have to agree with Stefanovic. However, not because of the reason he states (that Kosovo is no state, since legal binding agreements can be done by all kind of entities), but the fact those talk don't end up in treaties/contracts. They are only "declarations of intent". Those have limit legal essence and can be revoked. Stefanovic also forgets that this flaw is a door which swings two directions. Not only Belgrade can back out, but also Prishtina. Selective crying won't help.
This is way that whole sitting together as merely a sharade, a fig leaf for Serbia to continue the path to EU, and in the end not worth the paper is written on.
What a joke are the overwehelming majority of the Serbian polititians....))) I think the EU should add another "criteria" to Serbia to remove from its constitution that "Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia" and recommend Serbia that "Kosovo is neutral"...How does that sound?
Just another "Serbian joke"....)))
(EA, 23 September 2012 12:40)
It’s too late for any of those “special conditions on Serbia” as that time has gone. As the Russian Ambassador said “"If it is favorable for Serbia to join the EU, that cannot be against Russia's interest” “what's good for Serbia is good for Russia”. The Russians would NEVER allow Serbia to join if it’s not in their interests and Moscow knows that they will control Europe through gas and oil as soon as South stream goes through in 2014.
The time to have forced Serbia to accept a separate Kosovo was in the early days after NATO occupation of that region – NOT today.
Here is living proof that Belgrade will wipe the mud of their boots with these agreements as it should..
What a joke are the overwehelming majority of the Serbian polititians....))) I think the EU should add another "criteria" to Serbia to remove from its constitution that "Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia" and recommend Serbia that "Kosovo is neutral"...How does that sound?
Just another "Serbian joke"....)))
(EA, 23 September 2012 12:40) Your comments are the only jokes. It must be weird living such an uneducated existence. I have to go back to second grade to understand you reasoning but that's too far back. Sorry.
What a joke are the overwehelming majority of the Serbian polititians....))) I think the EU should add another "criteria" to Serbia to remove from its constitution that "Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia" and recommend Serbia that "Kosovo is neutral"...How does that sound?
What a joke are the overwehelming majority of the Serbian polititians....))) I think the EU should add another "criteria" to Serbia to remove from its constitution that "Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia" and recommend Serbia that "Kosovo is neutral"...How does that sound?
What a joke are the overwehelming majority of the Serbian polititians....))) I think the EU should add another "criteria" to Serbia to remove from its constitution that "Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia" and recommend Serbia that "Kosovo is neutral"...How does that sound?
Just another "Serbian joke"....)))
(EA, 23 September 2012 12:40) Your comments are the only jokes. It must be weird living such an uneducated existence. I have to go back to second grade to understand you reasoning but that's too far back. Sorry.
What a joke are the overwehelming majority of the Serbian polititians....))) I think the EU should add another "criteria" to Serbia to remove from its constitution that "Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia" and recommend Serbia that "Kosovo is neutral"...How does that sound?
Just another "Serbian joke"....)))
(EA, 23 September 2012 12:40)
It’s too late for any of those “special conditions on Serbia” as that time has gone. As the Russian Ambassador said “"If it is favorable for Serbia to join the EU, that cannot be against Russia's interest” “what's good for Serbia is good for Russia”. The Russians would NEVER allow Serbia to join if it’s not in their interests and Moscow knows that they will control Europe through gas and oil as soon as South stream goes through in 2014.
The time to have forced Serbia to accept a separate Kosovo was in the early days after NATO occupation of that region – NOT today.
Here is living proof that Belgrade will wipe the mud of their boots with these agreements as it should..
This one of the rare occasions where I have to agree with Stefanovic. However, not because of the reason he states (that Kosovo is no state, since legal binding agreements can be done by all kind of entities), but the fact those talk don't end up in treaties/contracts. They are only "declarations of intent". Those have limit legal essence and can be revoked. Stefanovic also forgets that this flaw is a door which swings two directions. Not only Belgrade can back out, but also Prishtina. Selective crying won't help.
This is way that whole sitting together as merely a sharade, a fig leaf for Serbia to continue the path to EU, and in the end not worth the paper is written on.
The Russians would NEVER allow Serbia to join if it’s not in their interests
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
I thought that Serbia is a powerful country, the greatest country of the Balkans, and proud and heroic Serbs will never allow to be servants of others. But since the above is coming from you who are the CE of the B92 forums, I was obviously wrong. Thanks sj for illuminating our minds.
----------
Moscow knows that they will control Europe through gas and oil as soon as South stream goes through in 2014.
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
That's dangerous... that means that Europe will also control Moscow. You, as CE of B92 forums, know very well from your distinguished experience at your Malaysian Merchant bank that cash is the king :)
----------
The time to have forced Serbia to accept a separate Kosovo was in the early days after NATO occupation of that region – NOT today.
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
That's not possible. We're told in these forums that the 1999 war was a great victory for the heroic Serbia. So the early days after that war were the worst time to impose anything on the victorious Serbia.
----------
Here is living proof that Belgrade will wipe the mud of their boots with these agreements as it should..
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
Absolutely correct... unfortunately Stefanovic is no longer in power to do that and that traitor of Ivica in implementing traitorous agreements by blaming others for them.
What a cynical statement of Borko Stefanovic. The EU expectes us to honor the agreement. If we want to be a part of EU, then we must accept already agreed.
“south stream will supply gas to the poorest region of Europe. It is limited in its distribution range and is merely a money making project for Russia and in no way has a choke hold on ALL of Europe”
This is why I don’t bother too much these days in debating you guys.
Let’s take you through South stream. It comes out in Bulgaria a branch line goes to Greece and then to Italy. The main line will proceed from Bulgaria through Serbia where branch lines will go RS, Macedonia, and rest of BiH. From Belgrade a line will proceed to Hungary and another through Croatia both will bypass Austria and go to Slovenia to Italy and expanded to France.
There will be no other lines in Europe as Nabucco is a pipe dream now. The Russians are now openly telling anyone that will listen that they look like supplying anywhere between 65% and 70% of all energy needs to Europe.
I’m so fascinated by comments such as “Russia as it takes over more and more of their property and assets” as if the west does things out of pure love.. One thing the Russian people have a very deep affection for Serbs and they have never bombed us unlike your allies the US which has left depleted uranium for your Albanians to breath and die of cancers (highest in Europe today)
Please no stories with moral overtones such as ‘Jabez Stone. This is the usual US BS on morality for the masses while they
Stefanovic is absolutely right: his initial on a agreement which was not signed or ratified means nothing in legal terms, but interesting is the statement of the deputy PM who says Serbia is now bound to the agreement by this meanigless initials...it is the way the new government will introduce with no responsibility agreements which are seriously demaging the situation an the ground for Serbia: this is the only interest of NATO/EU to push Serbia to accept this...this was also no agreement, it was imposed by the "mediator" Cooper and Tadic has accepted it knowing that it was absolutely against Serbias interests
If you have a joint boarder management with a state, how you can avoid to recognize it as independent stae and how you can convience thirs states that they should not see it as recognition...Serbia is doing the same like ever:..playing, but not good, like in soccer
Witch war between Serbian government and the opposition, the latter now as camouflage and to save face, that allegedly has not made concessions on Kosovo, so that current government can supersede every agreement and declare for nothing. Pretty crafty this Borko, instead of both sides to say Serbian people that Kosovo is now independent state and we have to accept.
"The Russians are now openly telling anyone that will listen that they look like supplying anywhere between 65% and 70% of all energy needs to Europe.
(sj, 24 September 2012 14:28) "
Pipe dreams. Russia's share of the gas supplied to Europe fell from 49% in 2000 to 32% in 2010 and is expected to fall further http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/cumbersome-gazprom-losing-its-clout/2012/09/23/adf7ec08-fcf8-11e1-8adc-499661afe377_story.html?hpid=z4 Europe is not desperate for South Stream to come on line. As a FT headline had it, "Russia faces challenges to gas supremacy."
The expansion of liquified natural gas from Africa, the Arab states, and now the United States is going to help bring gas prices down in Europe. (The U.S. produced more gas last year than Russia, but has only started exporting it.) Gazprom is not only not going to be Europe's only provider, it's not even going to be the cheapest one. But the biggest problem for Russia will be the shale gas deposits in Poland, the Ukraine, Romania, and Bulgaria. Europe is not going to end up at the mercy of Russia and its uncertain politics.
The Russians would NEVER allow Serbia to join if it’s not in their interests and Moscow knows that they will control Europe through gas and oil as soon as South stream goes through in 2014.
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
While the rest of your comment is typical bs, Your first sentence here I am glad to see as you have revealed reality to your fellow citizens that major choices are not their own but that of Russia as it takes over more and more of their property and assets. They are on the verge of learning exactly what it is like to have their lives controlled without voice, similar to the Albanians in Kosovo 1990, ironic you think.
The 2nd part, surely you know better, the south stream will supply gas to the poorest region of Europe. It is limited in its distribution range and is merely a money making project for Russia and in no way has a choke hold on ALL of Europe. Like having a noose on a toe or something a nuisance to deal with but even if you sever the toe you will still survive. The rest of Europe is already supplied by other lines. Also, the South stream will afford Serbia zero extra control over anything, it is a link in the chain and if that link should become an issue Russia will come into reinforce it so as not to inhibit a smooth operation.
As "Jabez Stone" learned getting what you want by selling your soul sounds like a fantastic idea at first. You get what you want but there comes a time you pay the very high price.
What a joke are the overwehelming majority of the Serbian polititians....))) I think the EU should add another "criteria" to Serbia to remove from its constitution that "Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia" and recommend Serbia that "Kosovo is neutral"...How does that sound?
Just another "Serbian joke"....)))
(EA, 23 September 2012 12:40) Your comments are the only jokes. It must be weird living such an uneducated existence. I have to go back to second grade to understand you reasoning but that's too far back. Sorry.
What a joke are the overwehelming majority of the Serbian polititians....))) I think the EU should add another "criteria" to Serbia to remove from its constitution that "Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia" and recommend Serbia that "Kosovo is neutral"...How does that sound?
What a joke are the overwehelming majority of the Serbian polititians....))) I think the EU should add another "criteria" to Serbia to remove from its constitution that "Kosovo is an intergral part of Serbia" and recommend Serbia that "Kosovo is neutral"...How does that sound?
Just another "Serbian joke"....)))
(EA, 23 September 2012 12:40)
It’s too late for any of those “special conditions on Serbia” as that time has gone. As the Russian Ambassador said “"If it is favorable for Serbia to join the EU, that cannot be against Russia's interest” “what's good for Serbia is good for Russia”. The Russians would NEVER allow Serbia to join if it’s not in their interests and Moscow knows that they will control Europe through gas and oil as soon as South stream goes through in 2014.
The time to have forced Serbia to accept a separate Kosovo was in the early days after NATO occupation of that region – NOT today.
Here is living proof that Belgrade will wipe the mud of their boots with these agreements as it should..
This one of the rare occasions where I have to agree with Stefanovic. However, not because of the reason he states (that Kosovo is no state, since legal binding agreements can be done by all kind of entities), but the fact those talk don't end up in treaties/contracts. They are only "declarations of intent". Those have limit legal essence and can be revoked. Stefanovic also forgets that this flaw is a door which swings two directions. Not only Belgrade can back out, but also Prishtina. Selective crying won't help.
This is way that whole sitting together as merely a sharade, a fig leaf for Serbia to continue the path to EU, and in the end not worth the paper is written on.
What a cynical statement of Borko Stefanovic. The EU expectes us to honor the agreement. If we want to be a part of EU, then we must accept already agreed.
Witch war between Serbian government and the opposition, the latter now as camouflage and to save face, that allegedly has not made concessions on Kosovo, so that current government can supersede every agreement and declare for nothing. Pretty crafty this Borko, instead of both sides to say Serbian people that Kosovo is now independent state and we have to accept.
The Russians would NEVER allow Serbia to join if it’s not in their interests
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
I thought that Serbia is a powerful country, the greatest country of the Balkans, and proud and heroic Serbs will never allow to be servants of others. But since the above is coming from you who are the CE of the B92 forums, I was obviously wrong. Thanks sj for illuminating our minds.
----------
Moscow knows that they will control Europe through gas and oil as soon as South stream goes through in 2014.
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
That's dangerous... that means that Europe will also control Moscow. You, as CE of B92 forums, know very well from your distinguished experience at your Malaysian Merchant bank that cash is the king :)
----------
The time to have forced Serbia to accept a separate Kosovo was in the early days after NATO occupation of that region – NOT today.
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
That's not possible. We're told in these forums that the 1999 war was a great victory for the heroic Serbia. So the early days after that war were the worst time to impose anything on the victorious Serbia.
----------
Here is living proof that Belgrade will wipe the mud of their boots with these agreements as it should..
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
Absolutely correct... unfortunately Stefanovic is no longer in power to do that and that traitor of Ivica in implementing traitorous agreements by blaming others for them.
The Russians would NEVER allow Serbia to join if it’s not in their interests and Moscow knows that they will control Europe through gas and oil as soon as South stream goes through in 2014.
(sj, 23 September 2012 14:00)
While the rest of your comment is typical bs, Your first sentence here I am glad to see as you have revealed reality to your fellow citizens that major choices are not their own but that of Russia as it takes over more and more of their property and assets. They are on the verge of learning exactly what it is like to have their lives controlled without voice, similar to the Albanians in Kosovo 1990, ironic you think.
The 2nd part, surely you know better, the south stream will supply gas to the poorest region of Europe. It is limited in its distribution range and is merely a money making project for Russia and in no way has a choke hold on ALL of Europe. Like having a noose on a toe or something a nuisance to deal with but even if you sever the toe you will still survive. The rest of Europe is already supplied by other lines. Also, the South stream will afford Serbia zero extra control over anything, it is a link in the chain and if that link should become an issue Russia will come into reinforce it so as not to inhibit a smooth operation.
As "Jabez Stone" learned getting what you want by selling your soul sounds like a fantastic idea at first. You get what you want but there comes a time you pay the very high price.
Stefanovic is absolutely right: his initial on a agreement which was not signed or ratified means nothing in legal terms, but interesting is the statement of the deputy PM who says Serbia is now bound to the agreement by this meanigless initials...it is the way the new government will introduce with no responsibility agreements which are seriously demaging the situation an the ground for Serbia: this is the only interest of NATO/EU to push Serbia to accept this...this was also no agreement, it was imposed by the "mediator" Cooper and Tadic has accepted it knowing that it was absolutely against Serbias interests
If you have a joint boarder management with a state, how you can avoid to recognize it as independent stae and how you can convience thirs states that they should not see it as recognition...Serbia is doing the same like ever:..playing, but not good, like in soccer
“south stream will supply gas to the poorest region of Europe. It is limited in its distribution range and is merely a money making project for Russia and in no way has a choke hold on ALL of Europe”
This is why I don’t bother too much these days in debating you guys.
Let’s take you through South stream. It comes out in Bulgaria a branch line goes to Greece and then to Italy. The main line will proceed from Bulgaria through Serbia where branch lines will go RS, Macedonia, and rest of BiH. From Belgrade a line will proceed to Hungary and another through Croatia both will bypass Austria and go to Slovenia to Italy and expanded to France.
There will be no other lines in Europe as Nabucco is a pipe dream now. The Russians are now openly telling anyone that will listen that they look like supplying anywhere between 65% and 70% of all energy needs to Europe.
I’m so fascinated by comments such as “Russia as it takes over more and more of their property and assets” as if the west does things out of pure love.. One thing the Russian people have a very deep affection for Serbs and they have never bombed us unlike your allies the US which has left depleted uranium for your Albanians to breath and die of cancers (highest in Europe today)
Please no stories with moral overtones such as ‘Jabez Stone. This is the usual US BS on morality for the masses while they
"The Russians are now openly telling anyone that will listen that they look like supplying anywhere between 65% and 70% of all energy needs to Europe.
(sj, 24 September 2012 14:28) "
Pipe dreams. Russia's share of the gas supplied to Europe fell from 49% in 2000 to 32% in 2010 and is expected to fall further http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/cumbersome-gazprom-losing-its-clout/2012/09/23/adf7ec08-fcf8-11e1-8adc-499661afe377_story.html?hpid=z4 Europe is not desperate for South Stream to come on line. As a FT headline had it, "Russia faces challenges to gas supremacy."
The expansion of liquified natural gas from Africa, the Arab states, and now the United States is going to help bring gas prices down in Europe. (The U.S. produced more gas last year than Russia, but has only started exporting it.) Gazprom is not only not going to be Europe's only provider, it's not even going to be the cheapest one. But the biggest problem for Russia will be the shale gas deposits in Poland, the Ukraine, Romania, and Bulgaria. Europe is not going to end up at the mercy of Russia and its uncertain politics.
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