"Referendum possible as last resort"

What Serb constitution are you talking about??
The one that was made unilateraly from Serbs ignoring Albanians and for a country that you had no jurisdiction for,according UNSC res.1244??
Your days to rule Albanians of kosova are over.Kosova(Dardania)was never yours to beging with,and will never be,your soul homeland is in the Karpathians

there is no need for any referendum on this. it is written down in our constitution, and therefore it is misleading to even mention the possibility of such a stupidity.

in regard to KiM there is no choice at all! EU is not that important, but liberating what is historically, morally and legally ours - that is very important, indeed.

"as long as these solutions are in line with the Serbian Constitution"

That would be the way "forward"...and I would believe he expect Kosovo institution to go against Kosovo constitution...Another nutter!

I feel it will end up with the call for a referendum...the issue would be what and how questions will be asked to people...

@ Jovan

I think Albanians don't need to prove to nobody and especially to Serbs who they are.
We know who we are ,who our ancestors are and were our lands are.
If you and you Serbs don't agree ,it's your problem,not ours.

We have passed many invaders in the past,much stronger than you,but you are the worst one ,imo ... how they say..neither meat nor fish.
You lost the war. Honor people shake hands and live there past behind. You are not able to do so.

I agree with the sugestion. Serbs should decide on their own... Kosovo is Serbian property...

@Delon:

you won´t be asked, actually. those Albanians who can prove that they lived in soutern Serbia prior to the NATO-occupation should have the choice, and if they do not wish to live in Serbia - then they should simply vote with their feet. and leave.

all others will be welcome of course.

as for this rather amusing attempt to promote the k-albanian phantasy of "dardania"... come on, even if you repeat it a million times, it won´t become true...

you are NOT the descendants of the illyrians, and you should really stop humiliating yourself with this crap.

How things are going in Serbia by the time this referendum is held Serbs will be asked also if they choose Vojvodina or EU. Serbs can decide what happens to Kosovo as much as Albanians can decide what happens to Serbia.

@delon:

you obviously do NOT know who and what you are! otherwise you wouldn´t cling so desperately to myths and illusions a.k.a. the illyrian descent.
if YOU think you don´t have to prove anything, I am fine with that! =)

but when you say it is our problem and not yours, you are drastically wrong! because it WILL be your problem, ...because WE will make it your problem!
because... one thing should be clear for you: we won´t let you go with what is ours. one more thing: get used to it, we will be there when the time has come. and foreign help will not last eternally, my dear k-albanian friend.

@Ozzi:

quite interesting, you are posting the same pic twice in a few hours, what are you doing by night, actually? are you unemployed and do you have too much time or what? =)

but nevertheless, may I say "stupid mistake"?

the picture you posted is showing the Serbs migrating to the north, when they were let down by the Austrians after the first uprising against the Ottomans. it has nothing to do with the Albanians actually. the Albanians were willing vassals to the Ottoman invaders, as it is well known.
but your effort to post it even twice shows that you are eager to contribute something here - even if it is wrong.
thanks for the amusement though!

the first time an Albanian comes up with something to take a look upon it. you are improving, my dear k-albanian friends...

first to Amer our genetics-expert:

believe it or not,I know that study, but it is one of several, and it is the only one stating what you have quoted.

so, the reasons for this are not clear, but there is something interesting to it - especially if it is an american (west-coast) institute publishing it.

if I say interesting, then it is because east-coast american scholars have found the opposite. being an acedemic and as far as science is in question, I tend to stay conservative until there is some definite result.

but I have to admit that I am positively surprised that you have also posted that the origin of todays Albanians is contentious. since most of you are so indoctrinated by commie-hoxa-propaganda and greater-albanian phantasies that they are not able to use their brains..

just to be precise on this: you certainly know that a widespread opinion says that todays Albanians just assimilated what was left by the illyrians. this would also explain why there are commonalities with greek and italian samples. and it would explain why there are no signs of albanian "culture", no artifacts, no ruins, nothing that would indicate what you are so stubbornly claiming. but as always your compatriots are picking out what suits them best, even if quite unlikely.

actually the fog of the past, as you presumably wanted to write, is not clearing up at all.

@Michael:

you shouldn´t make the mistake to mix up me with all those K-albanians who are desperately dragging to genetics, probably because they believe that there could be a proof in regard to their wishful thinking...

I am not bringing up genetics, my friend. if I may ask you to read again what Amer wrote, it is the Albanians who are stumbling in racial spheres here...

so, before you come up with any nazi-comparison, please adress the k-albanians, and skip me ( they have more experience with nazism anyway).

@fedoker:

I am afraid you´re wrong. the reason why the Albanians are generally not mentioned in written historic sources is quite simple: they have not contributed anything of importance to the early european culture. you may not like to read it, but that´s simply the likeliest explanation.

you, or let´s say your albanian ancestors lived in the albanian mountains since all other areas where already settled by slavic tribes, and being far away from greek or roman culture, you were consuming but not contributing, if you understand what I mean.

and even to the present day it is quite the same! your very own society is your greatest enemy! your clan-based society is hindering you from being productive poeple. again, this has nothing to do with race or genetics... it is your socio-cultural status quo that makes you europe´s backlight. not the Ottomans, not the Serbs, nobody else than you.

The EU, which is in fact nothing more than Germany and its associates, is spitting on Serbia every chance it gets and plays Serbia like a cheap violin. Yet, despite this, Serbia behaves like absolute fools chasing the EU for acceptance in exchange for recognizing Kosovo, which is what the EU is really demanding. Recognizing Kosovo involves a finality, while no one can guarantee that the EU will exist in thirty years. Secondly, in the EU, Serbia gives up whatever sovereignty it has. Thirdly, the future of international economic power is certainly not weak and aging Western Europe, but in fact is Asia and BRIC. The EU is a dead end objectively, and subjectively, a source of hostility and spit directed at Serbia. Germany behind closed doors is justifiably laughing at Belgrade's lack of spine. The way forward must be neutrality with stronger relations with those who don't wish to amputate Serbian territory. I am a Serb and it pains me to see Belgrade acting like fools.

The EU, which is in fact nothing more than Germany and its associates, is spitting on Serbia every chance it gets and plays Serbia like a cheap violin. Yet, despite this, Serbia behaves like absolute fools chasing the EU for acceptance in exchange for recognizing Kosovo, which is what the EU is really demanding. Recognizing Kosovo involves a finality, while no one can guarantee that the EU will exist in thirty years. Secondly, in the EU, Serbia gives up whatever sovereignty it has. Thirdly, the future of international economic power is certainly not weak and aging Western Europe, but in fact is Asia and BRIC. The EU is a dead end objectively, and subjectively, a source of hostility and spit directed at Serbia. Germany behind closed doors is justifiably laughing at Belgrade's lack of spine. The way forward must be neutrality with stronger relations with those who don't wish to amputate Serbian territory. I am a Serb and it pains me to see Belgrade acting like fools.

"you are NOT the descendants of the illyrians, and you should really stop humiliating yourself with this crap."

On the other hand, modern genetic techniques are tending to show that they probably are. See, for example, a recent study (pub. in July) on the population genetics of Europe ("The Geography of Recent Genetic Ancestry across Europe" by Peter Ralph 1and Graham Coop - pdf available at http://arxiv.org/abs/1207.3815) - "recent" here meaning the last few thousand years.)

"The highest levels of IBD sharing are found in the Albanian-speaking individuals (from Albania and Kosovo), an increase in common ancestry deriving from the last 1,500 years. This suggests that a reasonable proportion of the ancestors of modern-day Albanian speakers are drawn from a relatively small, cohesive population that has persisted for at least the last 1,500 years. " I.e. - no, they didn't come in with the Turks in the 14th century.

And:

"The "origin" of modern-day Albanians is contentious; it is argued for instance that they are descended in large part from the Illyrians (Wilkes, 1996) who populated the eastern side of the Adriatic sea and part of modern-day Salento (Italy) during Roman times. Our results are certainly consistent with this view ..."

Strange, isn't it, how the few of the past becomes clearer as we proceed away from it.

Delon, until yesterday you were living in Serbia and generations of your people were living in Serbia. Now all of a sudden you are either a "Kosovar or Albanians" and you were not born in either of those "countries". Yes, Albania is a country that's way I put countries in "".
You say you know what your lands are. Then you are knowingly stealing our land because if you know what your land is then it's the land neighbouring Serbia at the end of Kosovo, you know A L B A N I A.

Jovan,
We are certain that Serbs did not come from Kosovo, the Albanians according to all the latest research i.e genetics,, language, custom, clothing, do, bearing in mind that Serbians have 20% Albanian genes and confirmed. now the Albanians who migrated to Italy from Kosovo after the war of Kosovo polje don't have any Serbian genetic markers which is quite interesting. Believe what you like, but Albanians are the original inhabitants in the Balkans regardless of what names of antiquity they place, Serbians unfortunately or fortunately are not and that doesn't mean we can't get along and move forward and enjoy the benefits of our culture

I don't know why all the discussion read the headlines, as a last resort. Meaning as the road to Europe has already gone in the crapper and there is no resurrection then the people of Serbia will be asked their preference.
A vote at a time that will mean absolutely nothing except to pull the leaders out of the pot. They will then claim victory that they will no longer pursue the EU and follow the will of the people. And of course you will all believe them.
But as long as there is a glimmer of light coming from beneath the door to the EU, the people will get no voice.

jovan,
Be sure Albanians won't migrate like this again from there home town in Kosova with Serbian escort

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Menekulo_szerbek.JPG

actually the fog of the past, as you presumably wanted to write, is not clearing up at all.
(Jovan, 19 September 2012 13:10)
@Jovan let apart all these genetic and scholar theories. We have now in Balkan a nation that is in number equal with Serbs, Greeks, Bulgarian, Hungarian. All the scholars agree and have a date when Greeks comes to Balkan, Serbs (slavs) comes, Hungarian comes, Bulgarian comes. How is it possible that Greek books, Latin books, Slavs books don’t note when this nation (tribe) equal with other comes to Balkan. I say you why. Cause these peoples was in Balkan before Greeks and before Greeks use to write.

Dori, you know little, if anything at all it seems.

you may go on believing what your yellow-press and your greater albanian spin-doctors have taught you - but that doesn´t have very much of a relevance in real life.

you are not the descendants of the illyrians. get over it. otherwise you will always stay without a real history.

Jovan,
Be sure Albanians won't migrate like this again from there home town in Kosova with Serbian escort

You lost the war. Honor people shake hands and live there past behind. You are not able to do so.
(delon, 19 September 2012 01:31)

Which war? Who declared war on Serbia? It was humaniratian operetion, just ask NATO, it wasn't war over territories.

Ozzi/Jovan with a discussion about genes are not far from the race-"science" of the years befor 1945...some weeks there was published that a Hungarian has asked an institute of the University of Budapest to proof that he has no Roma or Jewish genes, what the "institute" has done... I am sure that Ozzi/Jovan would like to make such investigation or have done it yet. A wrong way with all the fairytales about the "minorities"

Arber, you´re right when you say that the Albanians were historically weak and poor and so on.. but you´re wrong if you believe that the Serbs are frustrated.

they call a proud history their own. cultural, intellectual and other achievements en masse.

so, you could´t be farer away from reality.

the illyrians were assimilated by all those who settled in south-eastern europe, that´s something we agree upon.

the Albanians, as the weaker society just took over a lot from the people they have assimilated. that´s all.

but calling yourself living artifacts is ridiculous and simply shows the level of self-deceit among todays Albanians.

just a little example:

the name of the Carpathians derives from the old illyrian "ker, kar" which means stone or rock.
well and according to your logic those who live in the Carpathians today, the Romanians and others, would actually be Albanians.

do you realize how ridiculous all this is?

please, go and learn something about your own history, instead of claiming foreign history for yourselves...

We wonder if it would be best to call for the referendum and to see if we want to preserve Kosovo or the EU want.

"you are NOT the descendants of the illyrians, and you should really stop humiliating yourself with this crap."

On the other hand, modern genetic techniques are tending to show that they probably are. See, for example, a recent study (pub. in July) on the population genetics of Europe ("The Geography of Recent Genetic Ancestry across Europe" by Peter Ralph 1and Graham Coop - pdf available at [link]) - "recent" here meaning the last few thousand years.)
(Amer, 19 September 2012 02:14)

Oh, come on, that's too scientific and, in any case, it is rubish since it does not reconcile with the popular myths and ballads in Serbia and, above all, it is heresy since it does not reconcile with the preachings of Mr. Gravrilovic. You, Mr. Ralph and Mr. Coop should be burned at the stake :)

I am afraid you´re wrong. the reason why the Albanians are generally not mentioned in written historic sources is quite simple: they have not contributed anything of importance to the early european culture. you may not like to read it, but that´s simply the likeliest explanation.
Jovan
I know that for Serbs story began when they come to Balkan, and like to simplify the story before that. Our ancestors came centuries before your ancestors and have given their input throughout the development of the Balkans and the Mediterranean. They were part of the Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman Empire. While your ancestors were just part of the Ottoman Empire. This background I think that is the reason that today's Albanians easily integrate in EU and USA than the Slavs of the Balkans.

you are not the descendants of the illyrians. get over it. otherwise you will always stay without a real history.
(Jovan, 21 September 2012 00:02)

Obsessed with Albanians being the direct descendants of Illyrians? You can claim to be partial Illyrian as well. All you have to do is learn our ancient european language and proclaim that you to are Illyrian since the invading slavs either destroyed/ mixed with/ assimilated the Illyrians in Pannonia.

Albanian are the living artifacts of the remaining Illyrians. Serbs are just frustrated that they could not get the job done against the historically weak, culturally inferior Albanians.

@ Jovan

The only group that disputes the Albanian-Illyrian link theory is the Slavs for obvious reasons. To undermine Albanian Interests on their native lands which serbs have always seeked to conquer.
(and their spies who claimed to be Albanologists such as Resuli Burovic)

They way you dispute the link is as if Serbs have concrete evidence that Albanians are not Illyrians. Albanians claim to be Illyrians because it is the most probable explanation.

There are no existing documents of Albanian migration into the Balkans let alone saying that Albanians who were historically divided among clans, weaker and culturally inferior compared to Greeks were ever in a position to assimilate other groups.
The Albanians(Shqipetari/Scirtari) (Romans/latin do not pronounce q) are simply one of the remnants of the many Illyrian clans. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Map_of_ancient_Epirus_and_environs.png


Serbs might be proud to have at one time expanded their empire from the Danube to Greece by the 12th century, however the Albanians have seen and endured far more powerful empires such as the Romans,Byzantine and the Ottomans empires. For my ancestors to have survived such odds is a miracle because we could have been extinct like Thracians.


You need to revisit the Balkan history and learn how miraculously the Albanians managed to survive and retain their Indo-European language and customs and at the same time being under occupation for most of their history.

there is no need for any referendum on this. it is written down in our constitution, and therefore it is misleading to even mention the possibility of such a stupidity.

in regard to KiM there is no choice at all! EU is not that important, but liberating what is historically, morally and legally ours - that is very important, indeed.

What Serb constitution are you talking about??
The one that was made unilateraly from Serbs ignoring Albanians and for a country that you had no jurisdiction for,according UNSC res.1244??
Your days to rule Albanians of kosova are over.Kosova(Dardania)was never yours to beging with,and will never be,your soul homeland is in the Karpathians

@Delon:

you won´t be asked, actually. those Albanians who can prove that they lived in soutern Serbia prior to the NATO-occupation should have the choice, and if they do not wish to live in Serbia - then they should simply vote with their feet. and leave.

all others will be welcome of course.

as for this rather amusing attempt to promote the k-albanian phantasy of "dardania"... come on, even if you repeat it a million times, it won´t become true...

you are NOT the descendants of the illyrians, and you should really stop humiliating yourself with this crap.

"as long as these solutions are in line with the Serbian Constitution"

That would be the way "forward"...and I would believe he expect Kosovo institution to go against Kosovo constitution...Another nutter!

I feel it will end up with the call for a referendum...the issue would be what and how questions will be asked to people...

I agree with the sugestion. Serbs should decide on their own... Kosovo is Serbian property...

@ Jovan

I think Albanians don't need to prove to nobody and especially to Serbs who they are.
We know who we are ,who our ancestors are and were our lands are.
If you and you Serbs don't agree ,it's your problem,not ours.

We have passed many invaders in the past,much stronger than you,but you are the worst one ,imo ... how they say..neither meat nor fish.
You lost the war. Honor people shake hands and live there past behind. You are not able to do so.

Jovan,
We are certain that Serbs did not come from Kosovo, the Albanians according to all the latest research i.e genetics,, language, custom, clothing, do, bearing in mind that Serbians have 20% Albanian genes and confirmed. now the Albanians who migrated to Italy from Kosovo after the war of Kosovo polje don't have any Serbian genetic markers which is quite interesting. Believe what you like, but Albanians are the original inhabitants in the Balkans regardless of what names of antiquity they place, Serbians unfortunately or fortunately are not and that doesn't mean we can't get along and move forward and enjoy the benefits of our culture

"you are NOT the descendants of the illyrians, and you should really stop humiliating yourself with this crap."

On the other hand, modern genetic techniques are tending to show that they probably are. See, for example, a recent study (pub. in July) on the population genetics of Europe ("The Geography of Recent Genetic Ancestry across Europe" by Peter Ralph 1and Graham Coop - pdf available at http://arxiv.org/abs/1207.3815) - "recent" here meaning the last few thousand years.)

"The highest levels of IBD sharing are found in the Albanian-speaking individuals (from Albania and Kosovo), an increase in common ancestry deriving from the last 1,500 years. This suggests that a reasonable proportion of the ancestors of modern-day Albanian speakers are drawn from a relatively small, cohesive population that has persisted for at least the last 1,500 years. " I.e. - no, they didn't come in with the Turks in the 14th century.

And:

"The "origin" of modern-day Albanians is contentious; it is argued for instance that they are descended in large part from the Illyrians (Wilkes, 1996) who populated the eastern side of the Adriatic sea and part of modern-day Salento (Italy) during Roman times. Our results are certainly consistent with this view ..."

Strange, isn't it, how the few of the past becomes clearer as we proceed away from it.

Jovan,
Be sure Albanians won't migrate like this again from there home town in Kosova with Serbian escort

jovan,
Be sure Albanians won't migrate like this again from there home town in Kosova with Serbian escort

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Menekulo_szerbek.JPG

How things are going in Serbia by the time this referendum is held Serbs will be asked also if they choose Vojvodina or EU. Serbs can decide what happens to Kosovo as much as Albanians can decide what happens to Serbia.

@delon:

you obviously do NOT know who and what you are! otherwise you wouldn´t cling so desperately to myths and illusions a.k.a. the illyrian descent.
if YOU think you don´t have to prove anything, I am fine with that! =)

but when you say it is our problem and not yours, you are drastically wrong! because it WILL be your problem, ...because WE will make it your problem!
because... one thing should be clear for you: we won´t let you go with what is ours. one more thing: get used to it, we will be there when the time has come. and foreign help will not last eternally, my dear k-albanian friend.

@Ozzi:

quite interesting, you are posting the same pic twice in a few hours, what are you doing by night, actually? are you unemployed and do you have too much time or what? =)

but nevertheless, may I say "stupid mistake"?

the picture you posted is showing the Serbs migrating to the north, when they were let down by the Austrians after the first uprising against the Ottomans. it has nothing to do with the Albanians actually. the Albanians were willing vassals to the Ottoman invaders, as it is well known.
but your effort to post it even twice shows that you are eager to contribute something here - even if it is wrong.
thanks for the amusement though!

actually the fog of the past, as you presumably wanted to write, is not clearing up at all.
(Jovan, 19 September 2012 13:10)
@Jovan let apart all these genetic and scholar theories. We have now in Balkan a nation that is in number equal with Serbs, Greeks, Bulgarian, Hungarian. All the scholars agree and have a date when Greeks comes to Balkan, Serbs (slavs) comes, Hungarian comes, Bulgarian comes. How is it possible that Greek books, Latin books, Slavs books don’t note when this nation (tribe) equal with other comes to Balkan. I say you why. Cause these peoples was in Balkan before Greeks and before Greeks use to write.

I am afraid you´re wrong. the reason why the Albanians are generally not mentioned in written historic sources is quite simple: they have not contributed anything of importance to the early european culture. you may not like to read it, but that´s simply the likeliest explanation.
Jovan
I know that for Serbs story began when they come to Balkan, and like to simplify the story before that. Our ancestors came centuries before your ancestors and have given their input throughout the development of the Balkans and the Mediterranean. They were part of the Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman Empire. While your ancestors were just part of the Ottoman Empire. This background I think that is the reason that today's Albanians easily integrate in EU and USA than the Slavs of the Balkans.

The EU, which is in fact nothing more than Germany and its associates, is spitting on Serbia every chance it gets and plays Serbia like a cheap violin. Yet, despite this, Serbia behaves like absolute fools chasing the EU for acceptance in exchange for recognizing Kosovo, which is what the EU is really demanding. Recognizing Kosovo involves a finality, while no one can guarantee that the EU will exist in thirty years. Secondly, in the EU, Serbia gives up whatever sovereignty it has. Thirdly, the future of international economic power is certainly not weak and aging Western Europe, but in fact is Asia and BRIC. The EU is a dead end objectively, and subjectively, a source of hostility and spit directed at Serbia. Germany behind closed doors is justifiably laughing at Belgrade's lack of spine. The way forward must be neutrality with stronger relations with those who don't wish to amputate Serbian territory. I am a Serb and it pains me to see Belgrade acting like fools.

Delon, until yesterday you were living in Serbia and generations of your people were living in Serbia. Now all of a sudden you are either a "Kosovar or Albanians" and you were not born in either of those "countries". Yes, Albania is a country that's way I put countries in "".
You say you know what your lands are. Then you are knowingly stealing our land because if you know what your land is then it's the land neighbouring Serbia at the end of Kosovo, you know A L B A N I A.

You lost the war. Honor people shake hands and live there past behind. You are not able to do so.
(delon, 19 September 2012 01:31)

Which war? Who declared war on Serbia? It was humaniratian operetion, just ask NATO, it wasn't war over territories.

the first time an Albanian comes up with something to take a look upon it. you are improving, my dear k-albanian friends...

first to Amer our genetics-expert:

believe it or not,I know that study, but it is one of several, and it is the only one stating what you have quoted.

so, the reasons for this are not clear, but there is something interesting to it - especially if it is an american (west-coast) institute publishing it.

if I say interesting, then it is because east-coast american scholars have found the opposite. being an acedemic and as far as science is in question, I tend to stay conservative until there is some definite result.

but I have to admit that I am positively surprised that you have also posted that the origin of todays Albanians is contentious. since most of you are so indoctrinated by commie-hoxa-propaganda and greater-albanian phantasies that they are not able to use their brains..

just to be precise on this: you certainly know that a widespread opinion says that todays Albanians just assimilated what was left by the illyrians. this would also explain why there are commonalities with greek and italian samples. and it would explain why there are no signs of albanian "culture", no artifacts, no ruins, nothing that would indicate what you are so stubbornly claiming. but as always your compatriots are picking out what suits them best, even if quite unlikely.

actually the fog of the past, as you presumably wanted to write, is not clearing up at all.

"you are NOT the descendants of the illyrians, and you should really stop humiliating yourself with this crap."

On the other hand, modern genetic techniques are tending to show that they probably are. See, for example, a recent study (pub. in July) on the population genetics of Europe ("The Geography of Recent Genetic Ancestry across Europe" by Peter Ralph 1and Graham Coop - pdf available at [link]) - "recent" here meaning the last few thousand years.)
(Amer, 19 September 2012 02:14)

Oh, come on, that's too scientific and, in any case, it is rubish since it does not reconcile with the popular myths and ballads in Serbia and, above all, it is heresy since it does not reconcile with the preachings of Mr. Gravrilovic. You, Mr. Ralph and Mr. Coop should be burned at the stake :)

you are not the descendants of the illyrians. get over it. otherwise you will always stay without a real history.
(Jovan, 21 September 2012 00:02)

Obsessed with Albanians being the direct descendants of Illyrians? You can claim to be partial Illyrian as well. All you have to do is learn our ancient european language and proclaim that you to are Illyrian since the invading slavs either destroyed/ mixed with/ assimilated the Illyrians in Pannonia.

Albanian are the living artifacts of the remaining Illyrians. Serbs are just frustrated that they could not get the job done against the historically weak, culturally inferior Albanians.

The EU, which is in fact nothing more than Germany and its associates, is spitting on Serbia every chance it gets and plays Serbia like a cheap violin. Yet, despite this, Serbia behaves like absolute fools chasing the EU for acceptance in exchange for recognizing Kosovo, which is what the EU is really demanding. Recognizing Kosovo involves a finality, while no one can guarantee that the EU will exist in thirty years. Secondly, in the EU, Serbia gives up whatever sovereignty it has. Thirdly, the future of international economic power is certainly not weak and aging Western Europe, but in fact is Asia and BRIC. The EU is a dead end objectively, and subjectively, a source of hostility and spit directed at Serbia. Germany behind closed doors is justifiably laughing at Belgrade's lack of spine. The way forward must be neutrality with stronger relations with those who don't wish to amputate Serbian territory. I am a Serb and it pains me to see Belgrade acting like fools.

I don't know why all the discussion read the headlines, as a last resort. Meaning as the road to Europe has already gone in the crapper and there is no resurrection then the people of Serbia will be asked their preference.
A vote at a time that will mean absolutely nothing except to pull the leaders out of the pot. They will then claim victory that they will no longer pursue the EU and follow the will of the people. And of course you will all believe them.
But as long as there is a glimmer of light coming from beneath the door to the EU, the people will get no voice.

Ozzi/Jovan with a discussion about genes are not far from the race-"science" of the years befor 1945...some weeks there was published that a Hungarian has asked an institute of the University of Budapest to proof that he has no Roma or Jewish genes, what the "institute" has done... I am sure that Ozzi/Jovan would like to make such investigation or have done it yet. A wrong way with all the fairytales about the "minorities"

@Michael:

you shouldn´t make the mistake to mix up me with all those K-albanians who are desperately dragging to genetics, probably because they believe that there could be a proof in regard to their wishful thinking...

I am not bringing up genetics, my friend. if I may ask you to read again what Amer wrote, it is the Albanians who are stumbling in racial spheres here...

so, before you come up with any nazi-comparison, please adress the k-albanians, and skip me ( they have more experience with nazism anyway).

@fedoker:

I am afraid you´re wrong. the reason why the Albanians are generally not mentioned in written historic sources is quite simple: they have not contributed anything of importance to the early european culture. you may not like to read it, but that´s simply the likeliest explanation.

you, or let´s say your albanian ancestors lived in the albanian mountains since all other areas where already settled by slavic tribes, and being far away from greek or roman culture, you were consuming but not contributing, if you understand what I mean.

and even to the present day it is quite the same! your very own society is your greatest enemy! your clan-based society is hindering you from being productive poeple. again, this has nothing to do with race or genetics... it is your socio-cultural status quo that makes you europe´s backlight. not the Ottomans, not the Serbs, nobody else than you.

We wonder if it would be best to call for the referendum and to see if we want to preserve Kosovo or the EU want.

Dori, you know little, if anything at all it seems.

you may go on believing what your yellow-press and your greater albanian spin-doctors have taught you - but that doesn´t have very much of a relevance in real life.

you are not the descendants of the illyrians. get over it. otherwise you will always stay without a real history.

Arber, you´re right when you say that the Albanians were historically weak and poor and so on.. but you´re wrong if you believe that the Serbs are frustrated.

they call a proud history their own. cultural, intellectual and other achievements en masse.

so, you could´t be farer away from reality.

the illyrians were assimilated by all those who settled in south-eastern europe, that´s something we agree upon.

the Albanians, as the weaker society just took over a lot from the people they have assimilated. that´s all.

but calling yourself living artifacts is ridiculous and simply shows the level of self-deceit among todays Albanians.

just a little example:

the name of the Carpathians derives from the old illyrian "ker, kar" which means stone or rock.
well and according to your logic those who live in the Carpathians today, the Romanians and others, would actually be Albanians.

do you realize how ridiculous all this is?

please, go and learn something about your own history, instead of claiming foreign history for yourselves...

@ Jovan

The only group that disputes the Albanian-Illyrian link theory is the Slavs for obvious reasons. To undermine Albanian Interests on their native lands which serbs have always seeked to conquer.
(and their spies who claimed to be Albanologists such as Resuli Burovic)

They way you dispute the link is as if Serbs have concrete evidence that Albanians are not Illyrians. Albanians claim to be Illyrians because it is the most probable explanation.

There are no existing documents of Albanian migration into the Balkans let alone saying that Albanians who were historically divided among clans, weaker and culturally inferior compared to Greeks were ever in a position to assimilate other groups.
The Albanians(Shqipetari/Scirtari) (Romans/latin do not pronounce q) are simply one of the remnants of the many Illyrian clans. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Map_of_ancient_Epirus_and_environs.png


Serbs might be proud to have at one time expanded their empire from the Danube to Greece by the 12th century, however the Albanians have seen and endured far more powerful empires such as the Romans,Byzantine and the Ottomans empires. For my ancestors to have survived such odds is a miracle because we could have been extinct like Thracians.


You need to revisit the Balkan history and learn how miraculously the Albanians managed to survive and retain their Indo-European language and customs and at the same time being under occupation for most of their history.