36

Wednesday, 12.09.2012.

12:56

Libya: U.S. ambassador, three others killed

The U.S. ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens, and three other U.S. officials were killed last night in an attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya.

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36 Komentari

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resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 11 godina

@Champion Of The Underdog:

Am I on drugs?? My goodness why would you be asking me such a ridiculous or weird question? Of course I ain't using drugs! Aren't you aware that in most cases it's illegal to do drugs.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 11 godina

@Roger7 & Champion For The Underdog:

Beginning with you Roger 7 why? Why do you condemn US actions in The Balkans? Is it because you felt that innocent civilians of the Balkans would bear the brunt of US involvement in that part of the world?

For you Champion Of The Underdog I noticed that in one of your comments you posted is where you stated that you're unsympathetic to Americans where it got me thinking(even if it's somewhat off topic) that I'm unsympathetic to Americans who disapprove of Serbs being penalized for war crimes,in fact,I'm capable of keeping my distance and not doing special things or "truly" special things for Americans who support Serbs that are ethnocentric or "criminally" ethnocentric.Furthermore I think you should also note that I wouldn't blame a Kosovar-Albanian(s) who'd refuse to interact with and refuse to do special things for an American(s) who support an anti-Albanian Serb(s),Americans who have Serb or direct Serbian background are not exempted (if you know what I mean).Finally and by the way I've been in situations where I got annoyed or curt with some Americans for rightful reasons and I even resorted to accidentally on purpose touching some Americans all because I didn't like how they touched me (and yes this sometimes occurred the times I've traveled to U.S.A.)If need be I judged them for their actions not their nationality.

The Confesser

pre 11 godina

In the last paragraph of this news article where there was a reference made to a film "designed"(if you will) to insult Prophet Muhammad which is or could be the reason why there is an uproar among Muslims therefore my question is would there still be an uproar if there was a Muslim made film where Muslim characters are addressing each other in derogatory ways but if some non-Muslim character(s) address the Muslim character(s) in a derogatory way the non-Muslim(s) is given a dirty look or is told someone like "Shut up! since you're a non-Muslim (or since you're non-Muslims)that it's not your place to insult a Muslim(s) in derogatory ways!" Finally although this article concerns Libya & United States I thought I still ask that how would Muslims react if there was a movie that's set in the former Yugoslavia where Muslims (more likely the Bosniaks (a term for Bosnian Muslims)and the ethnic Albanians) are religiously insulting each other but they will disapprove if a Croat,Macedonian,Montenegrin,Serb or Slovenian character(s) make religious insults against Muslims simply because Croats,Macedonians,Montenegrins,Serbs & Slovenians are overall non-Muslim.Incidentally I'm sorry if my opinions or inquiries are regarded as a cliche to some.

Champion for the underdog

pre 11 godina

Roger7

Don't you think that the US government has got enough problems at home to contend with and to sort out. You the people should organize yourselves and make those in Washington feel ashamed of what they to the innocents of this planet. Everyday we hear that US drones in some place or other have wiped out innocent women and kids, and it doesn't stop. Yet people expect us to feel sorry for the Americans murdered in Libya. It is not easy to feel sorrow for those who work for a regime that continues it's murderous rampage in diverse places. Your government have not brought freedom or democracy to the people in Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, etc etc, there is only chaos there and misery for millions of people.

I am not happy that people are dying believe me, but I can feel no sorrow for those who support an aggresive regime like the one that the US now has.

Renko

pre 11 godina

It is indeed a tragedy that removing brutal mass-killers like Ghaddafi and Mubarak, Saddam too, leads not to the creation of a modern secular society, but opens the door to people with no interest in modernity, no answer to women's rights, no interest in preserving the environment etc.
Back to the Stone Age for the poor people of the Middle East...

Of course, this forum with its large number of 1389 fantasists, is about the last place for an objective discussion. All that one can say is, whether America leaves the dictator in the saddle, or removes him, the same dreamers...blame America.

lowe

pre 11 godina

"Serbia is a Russian puppy.
(Bridge, 12 September 2012 23:36)"

Come by me again. The relevance of your statement to the topic is what again?

sj

pre 11 godina

(sarah, 12 September 2012 22:41)

If it has not jelled yet, the US Government represents the US people and when they bomb a country or group they do it in your name not in mine. Yes that is how it works.

Since the late 1990s the US has directly or indirectly been responsible for over 500 000 children dying in Iraq, killed over 100,000 Iraqis in Desert Storm and over 200 000 to date since the second invasion of Iraq. It is drectly responsible for killing innocent people by the hundreds in Afghanistan
The US, beacon of enlightenment on human rights, has been responsible for murdering their opponents, water boarding and many other procedures that fall into the term torture and yes they created that human rights holiday heaven called Gittmo Bay.

And you have the gall of talking about Serbs slaughtering innocent countrymen.

Roger7

pre 11 godina

Champion says, "I didn't see or hear the American citizens speak out against the lies and plotting and demonisation of the Serbian people by your government. They do it in your name my friend, who the hell else do they do it for??"

I did not vote for Bill Clinton & therefore his illegal use of NATO to bomb the Serbs was not done in my name. I was ashamed and said so publicly.
We drove many miles to stand in lines protesting the illegal NATO/US action in the Balkans. I contacted embassies, congress and senate members voicing my disgust. I wrote letters and protested in front of the FBI office building. I rode a bus to Washington DC to protest.
http://www.carolmoore.net/photos/balkans-photos.html
A British Embassy employee asked, "Are you just a common citizen, common citizens don't call embassies." I am just a common citizen who has no power and a voice that is not heard. Most citizens are just lambs to the slaughter of their own governments.

I remember my grandmother crying as she shared her painful memories of how her parents were burned alive by the Ustasa during WWII. Every Croatian is not responsible for this sub-human behavior.

The US government has no friend..only interests. I'm not blind to their covert activities throughout the world but, I, just a citizen, cannot impact the establishment in Washington, DC.

I strongly believe that when a human being wishes misery to another fellow human, this misery will be visited upon them and those they love.

Reader

pre 11 godina

If there is one thing that the Serbian internet trolls hate more than Muslims, it is Americans. According to them, Muslims are evil as long as general Mladic is slaughtering 3 thousands of them a day, but they are cheered upon when radical extremist ones kill Americans.

Sreten

pre 11 godina

To clear something.
Murdering of "Roger 7" or any other innocent American citizen would be terrible.
Murdering of American government official who "served as Special Representative to the Libyan Transitional National Council in 2011" by some insane psychos whom he supported and armed and empowered....well, not so much, in my view.

To clear another thing - I don't support Assad in Syria just because I'm pointing out that his opposition is nothing but al-qaeda.
Assad's family was brought to power in 70's by CIA.
Having that in mind, it doesn't take genius to figure things out....
Whom they supported for the last 3-4 decades?
Brutal dictators in Latin-America, likes of Osama bin Laden, etc.
Remember "Golden Keys of Detroit" for Saddam Hussein?
Assad was on CIA list too, so he's probably nothing but murderous brute.
Fact remains that US is still behind radical islam, more then ever, and it considers it valuable tool in foreign policy. Such tool is dangerous to handle, and it can backfire (like bin Laden) or in this case.
Yet, I'm sure that US State Department is willing to take some loses (this case) or to sustain some "collateral damage" to their own citizens (like 9/11) in order to preserve so valuable to achieve their goals.

Stefan

pre 11 godina

What has become of Serbs? When have we become so vile and cynical and full of completely unwarranted hate? The guy, Christopher Stevens, was an ambassador APPOINTED to Libya, and you all act that, by virtue of the fact that he's American and working for the American government, that his death is justified... Do you guys even listen to the utter bilge which you post? Politics aside, that's just disgusting to insinuate! Sramota!

As for this, well, this extremism is pathetic. While I think that empowering secular Muslim populations in the Middle East is a good thing for long-term peace, interfering with the toppling of Qaddafi in Libya was a real err in judgement, and may have overstepped the mark. Geopolitical gains can only be justified if there are practical benefits to extract from it; where are they in Libya now? Very hard to find.

Oh, and for all the ignorant, uneducated bigots hampering on about how this is all in an effort merely to open up markets... Well, trade and prosperity go hand in hand, how can you completely go against a core principle of economics for the sake of giving a one-up to the US and "the 1%"? Open markets benefit everybody.

sarah

pre 11 godina

I find it really amusing when American citizens are told they should feel collective guilt based on the actions of the government. I find it especially amusing when it comes from the mouths of Serbs who slaughtered innocent countrymen based on their religious views. Pot calling the kettle black and all that...

ivan

pre 11 godina

Good for them!! Live by the sword, die by the sword!! Now I know many of you will give me the humanitarian rubbish, but I guess when it's American blood we're supposed to mourn, however, when they cause carnage worldwide and defend human organ trafficing, that is ok.

Champion for the underdog

pre 11 godina

To Roger

You speak of disgust against your country because of the actions of your government, I didn't see or hear the American citizens speak out against the lies and plotting and demonisation of the Serbian people by your government. They do it in your name my friend, who the hell else do they do it for?? Who are the US armed forces?? they are American citizens are they not who are going around this world bombing and murdering in your name for so call democracy. Sorry pal, if you do not like what your government is doing then stop them, people power. Fight them.

I will never change my mind on how I feel about the USA until it's people rise up and takes these evil US regimes out and leave all occupied lands. You are todays Nazis, and that is how we see you.

Clinton cries crocodile tears for the Americans killed in Libya, the guy was a father to children, what about all the fathers the US have murdered and mothers and children too. They were loved ones and you want us to feel sorry for you lot, no chance pal. Your people are getting what they have sown and I don't give a damn how many Americans are killed, the more the better until they leave our lands and go home.

Zoran

pre 11 godina

If you approve of their actions then you are no better than a radical Muslim lunatic.
(Roger7, 12 September 2012 17:37)
--
Sorry to say Roger but it is your government that is supporting these radical Muslims. They are supporting them to overthrow non-compliant governments such as those in Libya and Syria. Much like the Germans turned a blind eye to NAZI crimes, US citizens are doing the same with NATO/US crimes.

As you sow, so shall you reap. This is just another cycle taking its course. If you have an issue with these radical Muslims then it is time you protested against your government for feeding them.

Sreten

pre 11 godina

I agree with Roger 7 completely.
I often find actions of US government deplorable, but this has not a fault of US citizens.
This I'll have to comment.

"...justify the killing of innocent people. "

Al-Qaeda was formed, trained and funded by US government. Taliban in Afghanistan is often described as "grassroots" movement, but it's hardly surprising outcome given that Carlton University printed schoolbooks for Afghanis with lessons like "killing Christians pleases Allah" and such. Textbooks were paid by US government and distributed to schools in Afghanistan in 80's with aim to foster fighting of the Soviets. Taliban of today grew up studying from those books.
The point is, actions have consequences.

US today is still biggest supporter of RADICAL ISLAM in the world. 2 months ago islamists took over in Mali, just 1 month after they were trained by US Rangers. There are numerous ties between Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and US administration.
Think about this.
One of the leaders of the Syrian al-Qaida is Abdelhakim Belhadj, a Libyan accomplice of Osama bin Laden who was suspected of complicity in the 2004 Madrid train bombings.

Belhadj was arrested by the CIA, until he appeared in Libya closely cooperating with Christopher Stevens (just killed).
How innocent can Christopher Stevens be?
Now the same Libyan ally of NATO is inside Syria with the help of the Turkish government, just to appear along side other al-Qaida commander inside Syria, Abu Khuder under al-Qaida flag.

Roger7

pre 11 godina

I am an American born and raised. I get the feelings of anger and disgust directed at the US government but I and many other American citizens are not guilty of anything. Nothing is done in my name as I often read here ... I speak for myself, no one speaks for me.

Collective guilt, as is often promoted here, is a very dangerous belief and those here who promote it justify the killing of innocent people.

Primitive Muslim radicals rioted on the Anniversary of 9/11 using this low-budget film as an excuse to do so. If you approve of their actions then you are no better than a radical Muslim lunatic.

really

pre 11 godina

libyan democracy...thats the dumbest term for defining what libya is, or for that matter any muslim nation. who ever actually believes that democracy is the political force behind these islamic nations is as stupid and ignorant as a consumer of the pet rock. Amer, and Bob are prime examples of this stupid american opinions beyond its borders that have zero roots in reality. alright dumb and dumber, go to libya and test the democracy, lets see how long before your head comes off your shouders or your daughter stoned to death for being christian or even thinking for herself.

Champion for the underdog

pre 11 godina

I have no sympathy for the Americans. They think they can attack bomb and murder people and insult their religious beliefs without a consequence, they got what the deserved in my opinion it's just a shame they didn't get a few more of them.

I used to admire the USA, but since they attacked Yugoslavia and other countries I have nothing but disgust and hatred for them. They have a lot to pay back for in human misery. They have inflicted evil on millions of innocents and they should be paid back for that. How can anyone respect a murderous nation like theirs. No sympathy for them ever.

USA you are the pits.

Been There, Done That

pre 11 godina

"Does the US still support Libyan democracy?
(Turning Tide, 12 September 2012 13:14) "

Yes. Crime, no.
(Amer, 12 September 2012 13:44)

'Yes' and 'Yes' when it comes to Kosova.

Daniel

pre 11 godina

You all greatly misunderstand US intentions. The US has never fought for democracy in other countries. It's only goal is to open markets for US goods and to appropriate land for military bases so that it can conquer more markets by force. There's a saying among the intellectuals here "bread or bombs". See if you are smart enough to figure out what that means.

Michael Thomas

pre 11 godina

Why was the US Ambassidor in Benghazi. Probably recruiting local Islamists to help bring democracy to Syria.

I should be sad when people are killed, but on this occasion I am not.

He was the willing servant of the Evil Empire and was well paid for his work.

sj

pre 11 godina

The comedian/TV and movie star Jackie Gleeson had TV show in the 1950s and one of his famous quotes was “how sweet it is” and it does not get any sweeter than this. If you have ever wondered why I keep on saying the United States of Idiots then this now provides the answer – they thought they could control it; you cant control it because they just don’t have the people that were around three or four decades ago. This so called help to regime change by riding the tide of the Arab spring is ill planed and run by incompetents in Washington and here is the proof. Once again you have to meet and talk to these policy makers to try and understand and then you only walk away shaking your head and repeating to yourself “this is not real”. A friend who read about the last days of WW2 where Hitler was moving divisions that had surrender months before said that it comes close to describing the US administration today.

sj

pre 11 godina

Yes, the US does support Libyan democracy.
(Bob, 12 September 2012 13:47)
In that case the Libyans democratically bombed the US consulate in Benghazi. This is what happens when you play with fire – you get burnt and this is only the beginning.

Afrim

pre 11 godina

I'm not surprised. Attacks on the U.S. embassy in Egypt as well. Ghadaffi was made to look evil, even though the Libyan's had better rights and a better standard of living than most other African countries, even European countries. Now the new guys in power are hard-core violators of the rights of people. I a little feel bad for the U.S. though, since it wasn't the only country that was behind the destruction of Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yugoslavia but it gets all the blame. France, the U.K. and Germany all had a hand on it but love to use the U.S. as a scapegoat.

lowe

pre 11 godina

"The U.S. ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens, and three other U.S. officials were killed last night in an attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya."

In BENGHAZI of all places, where the West helped play such a pivotal role in the ouster of Gaddaffi!!! ...... I would have thought that these Libyan rebels would be so, so , so in LUV with anything Yankee and Western, no? That English saying about reaping what you sow does come to mind!

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

This is nothing compared to the thousands murdered by US supported Selafis anti-Gaddafi rebels.Africans beheaded, mutilated and raped in their hundreds.Pro Gaddafi civilians executed in streets, all known by the west but silenced with a complicit media and now it seems the first signs of blowback is coming.

Afghanistan,Iraq,Libya are the clear examples of the West's pseudo-humanitarian and pseudo-democratic interventions: in each case, they've created failed states where Al Qaeda extremists funded by Saudi and Gulf states sow disorder.The same Al Qaeda extremists are now supplied with weapons and financial support by the West and their Saudi islamo-fascists allies trying to overthrow a secular government in Syria which is supported by the majority of its population.

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

This is nothing compared to the thousands murdered by US supported Selafis anti-Gaddafi rebels.Africans beheaded, mutilated and raped in their hundreds.Pro Gaddafi civilians executed in streets, all known by the west but silenced with a complicit media and now it seems the first signs of blowback is coming.

Afghanistan,Iraq,Libya are the clear examples of the West's pseudo-humanitarian and pseudo-democratic interventions: in each case, they've created failed states where Al Qaeda extremists funded by Saudi and Gulf states sow disorder.The same Al Qaeda extremists are now supplied with weapons and financial support by the West and their Saudi islamo-fascists allies trying to overthrow a secular government in Syria which is supported by the majority of its population.

Daniel

pre 11 godina

You all greatly misunderstand US intentions. The US has never fought for democracy in other countries. It's only goal is to open markets for US goods and to appropriate land for military bases so that it can conquer more markets by force. There's a saying among the intellectuals here "bread or bombs". See if you are smart enough to figure out what that means.

lowe

pre 11 godina

"The U.S. ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens, and three other U.S. officials were killed last night in an attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya."

In BENGHAZI of all places, where the West helped play such a pivotal role in the ouster of Gaddaffi!!! ...... I would have thought that these Libyan rebels would be so, so , so in LUV with anything Yankee and Western, no? That English saying about reaping what you sow does come to mind!

Michael Thomas

pre 11 godina

Why was the US Ambassidor in Benghazi. Probably recruiting local Islamists to help bring democracy to Syria.

I should be sad when people are killed, but on this occasion I am not.

He was the willing servant of the Evil Empire and was well paid for his work.

sj

pre 11 godina

Yes, the US does support Libyan democracy.
(Bob, 12 September 2012 13:47)
In that case the Libyans democratically bombed the US consulate in Benghazi. This is what happens when you play with fire – you get burnt and this is only the beginning.

sj

pre 11 godina

The comedian/TV and movie star Jackie Gleeson had TV show in the 1950s and one of his famous quotes was “how sweet it is” and it does not get any sweeter than this. If you have ever wondered why I keep on saying the United States of Idiots then this now provides the answer – they thought they could control it; you cant control it because they just don’t have the people that were around three or four decades ago. This so called help to regime change by riding the tide of the Arab spring is ill planed and run by incompetents in Washington and here is the proof. Once again you have to meet and talk to these policy makers to try and understand and then you only walk away shaking your head and repeating to yourself “this is not real”. A friend who read about the last days of WW2 where Hitler was moving divisions that had surrender months before said that it comes close to describing the US administration today.

Champion for the underdog

pre 11 godina

I have no sympathy for the Americans. They think they can attack bomb and murder people and insult their religious beliefs without a consequence, they got what the deserved in my opinion it's just a shame they didn't get a few more of them.

I used to admire the USA, but since they attacked Yugoslavia and other countries I have nothing but disgust and hatred for them. They have a lot to pay back for in human misery. They have inflicted evil on millions of innocents and they should be paid back for that. How can anyone respect a murderous nation like theirs. No sympathy for them ever.

USA you are the pits.

Afrim

pre 11 godina

I'm not surprised. Attacks on the U.S. embassy in Egypt as well. Ghadaffi was made to look evil, even though the Libyan's had better rights and a better standard of living than most other African countries, even European countries. Now the new guys in power are hard-core violators of the rights of people. I a little feel bad for the U.S. though, since it wasn't the only country that was behind the destruction of Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yugoslavia but it gets all the blame. France, the U.K. and Germany all had a hand on it but love to use the U.S. as a scapegoat.

Sreten

pre 11 godina

I agree with Roger 7 completely.
I often find actions of US government deplorable, but this has not a fault of US citizens.
This I'll have to comment.

"...justify the killing of innocent people. "

Al-Qaeda was formed, trained and funded by US government. Taliban in Afghanistan is often described as "grassroots" movement, but it's hardly surprising outcome given that Carlton University printed schoolbooks for Afghanis with lessons like "killing Christians pleases Allah" and such. Textbooks were paid by US government and distributed to schools in Afghanistan in 80's with aim to foster fighting of the Soviets. Taliban of today grew up studying from those books.
The point is, actions have consequences.

US today is still biggest supporter of RADICAL ISLAM in the world. 2 months ago islamists took over in Mali, just 1 month after they were trained by US Rangers. There are numerous ties between Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and US administration.
Think about this.
One of the leaders of the Syrian al-Qaida is Abdelhakim Belhadj, a Libyan accomplice of Osama bin Laden who was suspected of complicity in the 2004 Madrid train bombings.

Belhadj was arrested by the CIA, until he appeared in Libya closely cooperating with Christopher Stevens (just killed).
How innocent can Christopher Stevens be?
Now the same Libyan ally of NATO is inside Syria with the help of the Turkish government, just to appear along side other al-Qaida commander inside Syria, Abu Khuder under al-Qaida flag.

really

pre 11 godina

libyan democracy...thats the dumbest term for defining what libya is, or for that matter any muslim nation. who ever actually believes that democracy is the political force behind these islamic nations is as stupid and ignorant as a consumer of the pet rock. Amer, and Bob are prime examples of this stupid american opinions beyond its borders that have zero roots in reality. alright dumb and dumber, go to libya and test the democracy, lets see how long before your head comes off your shouders or your daughter stoned to death for being christian or even thinking for herself.

Roger7

pre 11 godina

I am an American born and raised. I get the feelings of anger and disgust directed at the US government but I and many other American citizens are not guilty of anything. Nothing is done in my name as I often read here ... I speak for myself, no one speaks for me.

Collective guilt, as is often promoted here, is a very dangerous belief and those here who promote it justify the killing of innocent people.

Primitive Muslim radicals rioted on the Anniversary of 9/11 using this low-budget film as an excuse to do so. If you approve of their actions then you are no better than a radical Muslim lunatic.

ivan

pre 11 godina

Good for them!! Live by the sword, die by the sword!! Now I know many of you will give me the humanitarian rubbish, but I guess when it's American blood we're supposed to mourn, however, when they cause carnage worldwide and defend human organ trafficing, that is ok.

Zoran

pre 11 godina

If you approve of their actions then you are no better than a radical Muslim lunatic.
(Roger7, 12 September 2012 17:37)
--
Sorry to say Roger but it is your government that is supporting these radical Muslims. They are supporting them to overthrow non-compliant governments such as those in Libya and Syria. Much like the Germans turned a blind eye to NAZI crimes, US citizens are doing the same with NATO/US crimes.

As you sow, so shall you reap. This is just another cycle taking its course. If you have an issue with these radical Muslims then it is time you protested against your government for feeding them.

Sreten

pre 11 godina

To clear something.
Murdering of "Roger 7" or any other innocent American citizen would be terrible.
Murdering of American government official who "served as Special Representative to the Libyan Transitional National Council in 2011" by some insane psychos whom he supported and armed and empowered....well, not so much, in my view.

To clear another thing - I don't support Assad in Syria just because I'm pointing out that his opposition is nothing but al-qaeda.
Assad's family was brought to power in 70's by CIA.
Having that in mind, it doesn't take genius to figure things out....
Whom they supported for the last 3-4 decades?
Brutal dictators in Latin-America, likes of Osama bin Laden, etc.
Remember "Golden Keys of Detroit" for Saddam Hussein?
Assad was on CIA list too, so he's probably nothing but murderous brute.
Fact remains that US is still behind radical islam, more then ever, and it considers it valuable tool in foreign policy. Such tool is dangerous to handle, and it can backfire (like bin Laden) or in this case.
Yet, I'm sure that US State Department is willing to take some loses (this case) or to sustain some "collateral damage" to their own citizens (like 9/11) in order to preserve so valuable to achieve their goals.

Been There, Done That

pre 11 godina

"Does the US still support Libyan democracy?
(Turning Tide, 12 September 2012 13:14) "

Yes. Crime, no.
(Amer, 12 September 2012 13:44)

'Yes' and 'Yes' when it comes to Kosova.

Champion for the underdog

pre 11 godina

To Roger

You speak of disgust against your country because of the actions of your government, I didn't see or hear the American citizens speak out against the lies and plotting and demonisation of the Serbian people by your government. They do it in your name my friend, who the hell else do they do it for?? Who are the US armed forces?? they are American citizens are they not who are going around this world bombing and murdering in your name for so call democracy. Sorry pal, if you do not like what your government is doing then stop them, people power. Fight them.

I will never change my mind on how I feel about the USA until it's people rise up and takes these evil US regimes out and leave all occupied lands. You are todays Nazis, and that is how we see you.

Clinton cries crocodile tears for the Americans killed in Libya, the guy was a father to children, what about all the fathers the US have murdered and mothers and children too. They were loved ones and you want us to feel sorry for you lot, no chance pal. Your people are getting what they have sown and I don't give a damn how many Americans are killed, the more the better until they leave our lands and go home.

sarah

pre 11 godina

I find it really amusing when American citizens are told they should feel collective guilt based on the actions of the government. I find it especially amusing when it comes from the mouths of Serbs who slaughtered innocent countrymen based on their religious views. Pot calling the kettle black and all that...

lowe

pre 11 godina

"Serbia is a Russian puppy.
(Bridge, 12 September 2012 23:36)"

Come by me again. The relevance of your statement to the topic is what again?

Stefan

pre 11 godina

What has become of Serbs? When have we become so vile and cynical and full of completely unwarranted hate? The guy, Christopher Stevens, was an ambassador APPOINTED to Libya, and you all act that, by virtue of the fact that he's American and working for the American government, that his death is justified... Do you guys even listen to the utter bilge which you post? Politics aside, that's just disgusting to insinuate! Sramota!

As for this, well, this extremism is pathetic. While I think that empowering secular Muslim populations in the Middle East is a good thing for long-term peace, interfering with the toppling of Qaddafi in Libya was a real err in judgement, and may have overstepped the mark. Geopolitical gains can only be justified if there are practical benefits to extract from it; where are they in Libya now? Very hard to find.

Oh, and for all the ignorant, uneducated bigots hampering on about how this is all in an effort merely to open up markets... Well, trade and prosperity go hand in hand, how can you completely go against a core principle of economics for the sake of giving a one-up to the US and "the 1%"? Open markets benefit everybody.

Reader

pre 11 godina

If there is one thing that the Serbian internet trolls hate more than Muslims, it is Americans. According to them, Muslims are evil as long as general Mladic is slaughtering 3 thousands of them a day, but they are cheered upon when radical extremist ones kill Americans.

sj

pre 11 godina

(sarah, 12 September 2012 22:41)

If it has not jelled yet, the US Government represents the US people and when they bomb a country or group they do it in your name not in mine. Yes that is how it works.

Since the late 1990s the US has directly or indirectly been responsible for over 500 000 children dying in Iraq, killed over 100,000 Iraqis in Desert Storm and over 200 000 to date since the second invasion of Iraq. It is drectly responsible for killing innocent people by the hundreds in Afghanistan
The US, beacon of enlightenment on human rights, has been responsible for murdering their opponents, water boarding and many other procedures that fall into the term torture and yes they created that human rights holiday heaven called Gittmo Bay.

And you have the gall of talking about Serbs slaughtering innocent countrymen.

Roger7

pre 11 godina

Champion says, "I didn't see or hear the American citizens speak out against the lies and plotting and demonisation of the Serbian people by your government. They do it in your name my friend, who the hell else do they do it for??"

I did not vote for Bill Clinton & therefore his illegal use of NATO to bomb the Serbs was not done in my name. I was ashamed and said so publicly.
We drove many miles to stand in lines protesting the illegal NATO/US action in the Balkans. I contacted embassies, congress and senate members voicing my disgust. I wrote letters and protested in front of the FBI office building. I rode a bus to Washington DC to protest.
http://www.carolmoore.net/photos/balkans-photos.html
A British Embassy employee asked, "Are you just a common citizen, common citizens don't call embassies." I am just a common citizen who has no power and a voice that is not heard. Most citizens are just lambs to the slaughter of their own governments.

I remember my grandmother crying as she shared her painful memories of how her parents were burned alive by the Ustasa during WWII. Every Croatian is not responsible for this sub-human behavior.

The US government has no friend..only interests. I'm not blind to their covert activities throughout the world but, I, just a citizen, cannot impact the establishment in Washington, DC.

I strongly believe that when a human being wishes misery to another fellow human, this misery will be visited upon them and those they love.

Champion for the underdog

pre 11 godina

Roger7

Don't you think that the US government has got enough problems at home to contend with and to sort out. You the people should organize yourselves and make those in Washington feel ashamed of what they to the innocents of this planet. Everyday we hear that US drones in some place or other have wiped out innocent women and kids, and it doesn't stop. Yet people expect us to feel sorry for the Americans murdered in Libya. It is not easy to feel sorrow for those who work for a regime that continues it's murderous rampage in diverse places. Your government have not brought freedom or democracy to the people in Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, etc etc, there is only chaos there and misery for millions of people.

I am not happy that people are dying believe me, but I can feel no sorrow for those who support an aggresive regime like the one that the US now has.

Renko

pre 11 godina

It is indeed a tragedy that removing brutal mass-killers like Ghaddafi and Mubarak, Saddam too, leads not to the creation of a modern secular society, but opens the door to people with no interest in modernity, no answer to women's rights, no interest in preserving the environment etc.
Back to the Stone Age for the poor people of the Middle East...

Of course, this forum with its large number of 1389 fantasists, is about the last place for an objective discussion. All that one can say is, whether America leaves the dictator in the saddle, or removes him, the same dreamers...blame America.

The Confesser

pre 11 godina

In the last paragraph of this news article where there was a reference made to a film "designed"(if you will) to insult Prophet Muhammad which is or could be the reason why there is an uproar among Muslims therefore my question is would there still be an uproar if there was a Muslim made film where Muslim characters are addressing each other in derogatory ways but if some non-Muslim character(s) address the Muslim character(s) in a derogatory way the non-Muslim(s) is given a dirty look or is told someone like "Shut up! since you're a non-Muslim (or since you're non-Muslims)that it's not your place to insult a Muslim(s) in derogatory ways!" Finally although this article concerns Libya & United States I thought I still ask that how would Muslims react if there was a movie that's set in the former Yugoslavia where Muslims (more likely the Bosniaks (a term for Bosnian Muslims)and the ethnic Albanians) are religiously insulting each other but they will disapprove if a Croat,Macedonian,Montenegrin,Serb or Slovenian character(s) make religious insults against Muslims simply because Croats,Macedonians,Montenegrins,Serbs & Slovenians are overall non-Muslim.Incidentally I'm sorry if my opinions or inquiries are regarded as a cliche to some.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 11 godina

@Roger7 & Champion For The Underdog:

Beginning with you Roger 7 why? Why do you condemn US actions in The Balkans? Is it because you felt that innocent civilians of the Balkans would bear the brunt of US involvement in that part of the world?

For you Champion Of The Underdog I noticed that in one of your comments you posted is where you stated that you're unsympathetic to Americans where it got me thinking(even if it's somewhat off topic) that I'm unsympathetic to Americans who disapprove of Serbs being penalized for war crimes,in fact,I'm capable of keeping my distance and not doing special things or "truly" special things for Americans who support Serbs that are ethnocentric or "criminally" ethnocentric.Furthermore I think you should also note that I wouldn't blame a Kosovar-Albanian(s) who'd refuse to interact with and refuse to do special things for an American(s) who support an anti-Albanian Serb(s),Americans who have Serb or direct Serbian background are not exempted (if you know what I mean).Finally and by the way I've been in situations where I got annoyed or curt with some Americans for rightful reasons and I even resorted to accidentally on purpose touching some Americans all because I didn't like how they touched me (and yes this sometimes occurred the times I've traveled to U.S.A.)If need be I judged them for their actions not their nationality.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 11 godina

@Champion Of The Underdog:

Am I on drugs?? My goodness why would you be asking me such a ridiculous or weird question? Of course I ain't using drugs! Aren't you aware that in most cases it's illegal to do drugs.

sarah

pre 11 godina

I find it really amusing when American citizens are told they should feel collective guilt based on the actions of the government. I find it especially amusing when it comes from the mouths of Serbs who slaughtered innocent countrymen based on their religious views. Pot calling the kettle black and all that...

Roger7

pre 11 godina

I am an American born and raised. I get the feelings of anger and disgust directed at the US government but I and many other American citizens are not guilty of anything. Nothing is done in my name as I often read here ... I speak for myself, no one speaks for me.

Collective guilt, as is often promoted here, is a very dangerous belief and those here who promote it justify the killing of innocent people.

Primitive Muslim radicals rioted on the Anniversary of 9/11 using this low-budget film as an excuse to do so. If you approve of their actions then you are no better than a radical Muslim lunatic.

Afrim

pre 11 godina

I'm not surprised. Attacks on the U.S. embassy in Egypt as well. Ghadaffi was made to look evil, even though the Libyan's had better rights and a better standard of living than most other African countries, even European countries. Now the new guys in power are hard-core violators of the rights of people. I a little feel bad for the U.S. though, since it wasn't the only country that was behind the destruction of Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yugoslavia but it gets all the blame. France, the U.K. and Germany all had a hand on it but love to use the U.S. as a scapegoat.

Leonidas

pre 11 godina

This is nothing compared to the thousands murdered by US supported Selafis anti-Gaddafi rebels.Africans beheaded, mutilated and raped in their hundreds.Pro Gaddafi civilians executed in streets, all known by the west but silenced with a complicit media and now it seems the first signs of blowback is coming.

Afghanistan,Iraq,Libya are the clear examples of the West's pseudo-humanitarian and pseudo-democratic interventions: in each case, they've created failed states where Al Qaeda extremists funded by Saudi and Gulf states sow disorder.The same Al Qaeda extremists are now supplied with weapons and financial support by the West and their Saudi islamo-fascists allies trying to overthrow a secular government in Syria which is supported by the majority of its population.

Stefan

pre 11 godina

What has become of Serbs? When have we become so vile and cynical and full of completely unwarranted hate? The guy, Christopher Stevens, was an ambassador APPOINTED to Libya, and you all act that, by virtue of the fact that he's American and working for the American government, that his death is justified... Do you guys even listen to the utter bilge which you post? Politics aside, that's just disgusting to insinuate! Sramota!

As for this, well, this extremism is pathetic. While I think that empowering secular Muslim populations in the Middle East is a good thing for long-term peace, interfering with the toppling of Qaddafi in Libya was a real err in judgement, and may have overstepped the mark. Geopolitical gains can only be justified if there are practical benefits to extract from it; where are they in Libya now? Very hard to find.

Oh, and for all the ignorant, uneducated bigots hampering on about how this is all in an effort merely to open up markets... Well, trade and prosperity go hand in hand, how can you completely go against a core principle of economics for the sake of giving a one-up to the US and "the 1%"? Open markets benefit everybody.

Michael Thomas

pre 11 godina

Why was the US Ambassidor in Benghazi. Probably recruiting local Islamists to help bring democracy to Syria.

I should be sad when people are killed, but on this occasion I am not.

He was the willing servant of the Evil Empire and was well paid for his work.

Champion for the underdog

pre 11 godina

I have no sympathy for the Americans. They think they can attack bomb and murder people and insult their religious beliefs without a consequence, they got what the deserved in my opinion it's just a shame they didn't get a few more of them.

I used to admire the USA, but since they attacked Yugoslavia and other countries I have nothing but disgust and hatred for them. They have a lot to pay back for in human misery. They have inflicted evil on millions of innocents and they should be paid back for that. How can anyone respect a murderous nation like theirs. No sympathy for them ever.

USA you are the pits.

Been There, Done That

pre 11 godina

"Does the US still support Libyan democracy?
(Turning Tide, 12 September 2012 13:14) "

Yes. Crime, no.
(Amer, 12 September 2012 13:44)

'Yes' and 'Yes' when it comes to Kosova.

really

pre 11 godina

libyan democracy...thats the dumbest term for defining what libya is, or for that matter any muslim nation. who ever actually believes that democracy is the political force behind these islamic nations is as stupid and ignorant as a consumer of the pet rock. Amer, and Bob are prime examples of this stupid american opinions beyond its borders that have zero roots in reality. alright dumb and dumber, go to libya and test the democracy, lets see how long before your head comes off your shouders or your daughter stoned to death for being christian or even thinking for herself.

Renko

pre 11 godina

It is indeed a tragedy that removing brutal mass-killers like Ghaddafi and Mubarak, Saddam too, leads not to the creation of a modern secular society, but opens the door to people with no interest in modernity, no answer to women's rights, no interest in preserving the environment etc.
Back to the Stone Age for the poor people of the Middle East...

Of course, this forum with its large number of 1389 fantasists, is about the last place for an objective discussion. All that one can say is, whether America leaves the dictator in the saddle, or removes him, the same dreamers...blame America.

lowe

pre 11 godina

"The U.S. ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens, and three other U.S. officials were killed last night in an attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya."

In BENGHAZI of all places, where the West helped play such a pivotal role in the ouster of Gaddaffi!!! ...... I would have thought that these Libyan rebels would be so, so , so in LUV with anything Yankee and Western, no? That English saying about reaping what you sow does come to mind!

Daniel

pre 11 godina

You all greatly misunderstand US intentions. The US has never fought for democracy in other countries. It's only goal is to open markets for US goods and to appropriate land for military bases so that it can conquer more markets by force. There's a saying among the intellectuals here "bread or bombs". See if you are smart enough to figure out what that means.

sj

pre 11 godina

Yes, the US does support Libyan democracy.
(Bob, 12 September 2012 13:47)
In that case the Libyans democratically bombed the US consulate in Benghazi. This is what happens when you play with fire – you get burnt and this is only the beginning.

sj

pre 11 godina

The comedian/TV and movie star Jackie Gleeson had TV show in the 1950s and one of his famous quotes was “how sweet it is” and it does not get any sweeter than this. If you have ever wondered why I keep on saying the United States of Idiots then this now provides the answer – they thought they could control it; you cant control it because they just don’t have the people that were around three or four decades ago. This so called help to regime change by riding the tide of the Arab spring is ill planed and run by incompetents in Washington and here is the proof. Once again you have to meet and talk to these policy makers to try and understand and then you only walk away shaking your head and repeating to yourself “this is not real”. A friend who read about the last days of WW2 where Hitler was moving divisions that had surrender months before said that it comes close to describing the US administration today.

Champion for the underdog

pre 11 godina

To Roger

You speak of disgust against your country because of the actions of your government, I didn't see or hear the American citizens speak out against the lies and plotting and demonisation of the Serbian people by your government. They do it in your name my friend, who the hell else do they do it for?? Who are the US armed forces?? they are American citizens are they not who are going around this world bombing and murdering in your name for so call democracy. Sorry pal, if you do not like what your government is doing then stop them, people power. Fight them.

I will never change my mind on how I feel about the USA until it's people rise up and takes these evil US regimes out and leave all occupied lands. You are todays Nazis, and that is how we see you.

Clinton cries crocodile tears for the Americans killed in Libya, the guy was a father to children, what about all the fathers the US have murdered and mothers and children too. They were loved ones and you want us to feel sorry for you lot, no chance pal. Your people are getting what they have sown and I don't give a damn how many Americans are killed, the more the better until they leave our lands and go home.

ivan

pre 11 godina

Good for them!! Live by the sword, die by the sword!! Now I know many of you will give me the humanitarian rubbish, but I guess when it's American blood we're supposed to mourn, however, when they cause carnage worldwide and defend human organ trafficing, that is ok.

Reader

pre 11 godina

If there is one thing that the Serbian internet trolls hate more than Muslims, it is Americans. According to them, Muslims are evil as long as general Mladic is slaughtering 3 thousands of them a day, but they are cheered upon when radical extremist ones kill Americans.

Zoran

pre 11 godina

If you approve of their actions then you are no better than a radical Muslim lunatic.
(Roger7, 12 September 2012 17:37)
--
Sorry to say Roger but it is your government that is supporting these radical Muslims. They are supporting them to overthrow non-compliant governments such as those in Libya and Syria. Much like the Germans turned a blind eye to NAZI crimes, US citizens are doing the same with NATO/US crimes.

As you sow, so shall you reap. This is just another cycle taking its course. If you have an issue with these radical Muslims then it is time you protested against your government for feeding them.

sj

pre 11 godina

(sarah, 12 September 2012 22:41)

If it has not jelled yet, the US Government represents the US people and when they bomb a country or group they do it in your name not in mine. Yes that is how it works.

Since the late 1990s the US has directly or indirectly been responsible for over 500 000 children dying in Iraq, killed over 100,000 Iraqis in Desert Storm and over 200 000 to date since the second invasion of Iraq. It is drectly responsible for killing innocent people by the hundreds in Afghanistan
The US, beacon of enlightenment on human rights, has been responsible for murdering their opponents, water boarding and many other procedures that fall into the term torture and yes they created that human rights holiday heaven called Gittmo Bay.

And you have the gall of talking about Serbs slaughtering innocent countrymen.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 11 godina

@Roger7 & Champion For The Underdog:

Beginning with you Roger 7 why? Why do you condemn US actions in The Balkans? Is it because you felt that innocent civilians of the Balkans would bear the brunt of US involvement in that part of the world?

For you Champion Of The Underdog I noticed that in one of your comments you posted is where you stated that you're unsympathetic to Americans where it got me thinking(even if it's somewhat off topic) that I'm unsympathetic to Americans who disapprove of Serbs being penalized for war crimes,in fact,I'm capable of keeping my distance and not doing special things or "truly" special things for Americans who support Serbs that are ethnocentric or "criminally" ethnocentric.Furthermore I think you should also note that I wouldn't blame a Kosovar-Albanian(s) who'd refuse to interact with and refuse to do special things for an American(s) who support an anti-Albanian Serb(s),Americans who have Serb or direct Serbian background are not exempted (if you know what I mean).Finally and by the way I've been in situations where I got annoyed or curt with some Americans for rightful reasons and I even resorted to accidentally on purpose touching some Americans all because I didn't like how they touched me (and yes this sometimes occurred the times I've traveled to U.S.A.)If need be I judged them for their actions not their nationality.

Sreten

pre 11 godina

I agree with Roger 7 completely.
I often find actions of US government deplorable, but this has not a fault of US citizens.
This I'll have to comment.

"...justify the killing of innocent people. "

Al-Qaeda was formed, trained and funded by US government. Taliban in Afghanistan is often described as "grassroots" movement, but it's hardly surprising outcome given that Carlton University printed schoolbooks for Afghanis with lessons like "killing Christians pleases Allah" and such. Textbooks were paid by US government and distributed to schools in Afghanistan in 80's with aim to foster fighting of the Soviets. Taliban of today grew up studying from those books.
The point is, actions have consequences.

US today is still biggest supporter of RADICAL ISLAM in the world. 2 months ago islamists took over in Mali, just 1 month after they were trained by US Rangers. There are numerous ties between Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and US administration.
Think about this.
One of the leaders of the Syrian al-Qaida is Abdelhakim Belhadj, a Libyan accomplice of Osama bin Laden who was suspected of complicity in the 2004 Madrid train bombings.

Belhadj was arrested by the CIA, until he appeared in Libya closely cooperating with Christopher Stevens (just killed).
How innocent can Christopher Stevens be?
Now the same Libyan ally of NATO is inside Syria with the help of the Turkish government, just to appear along side other al-Qaida commander inside Syria, Abu Khuder under al-Qaida flag.

Roger7

pre 11 godina

Champion says, "I didn't see or hear the American citizens speak out against the lies and plotting and demonisation of the Serbian people by your government. They do it in your name my friend, who the hell else do they do it for??"

I did not vote for Bill Clinton & therefore his illegal use of NATO to bomb the Serbs was not done in my name. I was ashamed and said so publicly.
We drove many miles to stand in lines protesting the illegal NATO/US action in the Balkans. I contacted embassies, congress and senate members voicing my disgust. I wrote letters and protested in front of the FBI office building. I rode a bus to Washington DC to protest.
http://www.carolmoore.net/photos/balkans-photos.html
A British Embassy employee asked, "Are you just a common citizen, common citizens don't call embassies." I am just a common citizen who has no power and a voice that is not heard. Most citizens are just lambs to the slaughter of their own governments.

I remember my grandmother crying as she shared her painful memories of how her parents were burned alive by the Ustasa during WWII. Every Croatian is not responsible for this sub-human behavior.

The US government has no friend..only interests. I'm not blind to their covert activities throughout the world but, I, just a citizen, cannot impact the establishment in Washington, DC.

I strongly believe that when a human being wishes misery to another fellow human, this misery will be visited upon them and those they love.

resident of Fredericton,New Brunswick,Canada

pre 11 godina

@Champion Of The Underdog:

Am I on drugs?? My goodness why would you be asking me such a ridiculous or weird question? Of course I ain't using drugs! Aren't you aware that in most cases it's illegal to do drugs.

Sreten

pre 11 godina

To clear something.
Murdering of "Roger 7" or any other innocent American citizen would be terrible.
Murdering of American government official who "served as Special Representative to the Libyan Transitional National Council in 2011" by some insane psychos whom he supported and armed and empowered....well, not so much, in my view.

To clear another thing - I don't support Assad in Syria just because I'm pointing out that his opposition is nothing but al-qaeda.
Assad's family was brought to power in 70's by CIA.
Having that in mind, it doesn't take genius to figure things out....
Whom they supported for the last 3-4 decades?
Brutal dictators in Latin-America, likes of Osama bin Laden, etc.
Remember "Golden Keys of Detroit" for Saddam Hussein?
Assad was on CIA list too, so he's probably nothing but murderous brute.
Fact remains that US is still behind radical islam, more then ever, and it considers it valuable tool in foreign policy. Such tool is dangerous to handle, and it can backfire (like bin Laden) or in this case.
Yet, I'm sure that US State Department is willing to take some loses (this case) or to sustain some "collateral damage" to their own citizens (like 9/11) in order to preserve so valuable to achieve their goals.

lowe

pre 11 godina

"Serbia is a Russian puppy.
(Bridge, 12 September 2012 23:36)"

Come by me again. The relevance of your statement to the topic is what again?

Champion for the underdog

pre 11 godina

Roger7

Don't you think that the US government has got enough problems at home to contend with and to sort out. You the people should organize yourselves and make those in Washington feel ashamed of what they to the innocents of this planet. Everyday we hear that US drones in some place or other have wiped out innocent women and kids, and it doesn't stop. Yet people expect us to feel sorry for the Americans murdered in Libya. It is not easy to feel sorrow for those who work for a regime that continues it's murderous rampage in diverse places. Your government have not brought freedom or democracy to the people in Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, etc etc, there is only chaos there and misery for millions of people.

I am not happy that people are dying believe me, but I can feel no sorrow for those who support an aggresive regime like the one that the US now has.

The Confesser

pre 11 godina

In the last paragraph of this news article where there was a reference made to a film "designed"(if you will) to insult Prophet Muhammad which is or could be the reason why there is an uproar among Muslims therefore my question is would there still be an uproar if there was a Muslim made film where Muslim characters are addressing each other in derogatory ways but if some non-Muslim character(s) address the Muslim character(s) in a derogatory way the non-Muslim(s) is given a dirty look or is told someone like "Shut up! since you're a non-Muslim (or since you're non-Muslims)that it's not your place to insult a Muslim(s) in derogatory ways!" Finally although this article concerns Libya & United States I thought I still ask that how would Muslims react if there was a movie that's set in the former Yugoslavia where Muslims (more likely the Bosniaks (a term for Bosnian Muslims)and the ethnic Albanians) are religiously insulting each other but they will disapprove if a Croat,Macedonian,Montenegrin,Serb or Slovenian character(s) make religious insults against Muslims simply because Croats,Macedonians,Montenegrins,Serbs & Slovenians are overall non-Muslim.Incidentally I'm sorry if my opinions or inquiries are regarded as a cliche to some.