“Serbia will have to accept Kosovo's independence”

well, Gjergi could be wrong... =)

It´s interesting, B 92 is quite often coming up with some stories that are made up to ease the albanian soul, it seems.

not that they are bound to reality, but that´s not the matter, it is still B 92 though.

KiM is still serbian territory, and the UNSC is not going to change that, so ...sooner or later, Serbia is rather going to liberate what is serbian anway, instead of "accepting" something like this socalled "independence"...

I'd have thought this was a given. Explain to me how Serbia is going to join the EU without recognizing Kosova? In fact, scratch that, how is Serbia going to consolidate its democracy with Kosova? you see, this piece of land comes with 2 million Albanians, you will not get the territory without the populace. the populace will not join you as second class citizens and you very obviously do not want to have an Albanian run to be President of Serbia (that's what equal rights mean, you can have one of us running for the highest office). its simple, the choice that Serbia is not EU or Kosovo, its Kosova or democracy

What sort of rubbish is this?
Croatia is far from having good relations with it's neighbours, i.e. Slovenia and Serbia and is on it's way to joining EU.
Why is it up to Serbia only anyway. Does nobody think that Croatia has a lot of blame to carry for it's part in what happened? Unless Serbia gets on her knees and does whatever the likes of Croatia want are they going to say that Serbia does not want good neighbourly relations? Good relations are a two way street so to put the blame squarely on Serbia is to insist that Serbia capitulates.
This is blackmail pure and simple.
Serbia needs to destroy herself in order to get into that club. Price is too high.

So you know what, Serbia then does not join the EU, simple as that. If blackmail is allowed in this Union, then why would Serbia want to join this decaying entity? But lets not get too far ahead of ourselves - the EU is not doing too well, and a break up seems 50/50 for now. One day at a time, my friends. In the meantime, how is that investigation going into the organ-harvesting by Thaci and the KLA? I hear little about that - except for the news today that Germany is involved.

(adriatik, 5 August 2012 13:23)
First of all the EU of 2012 is not the same as the EU of the 1990s. The magic pudding waived at people in Europe to join the EU was money and the implication of lots of that stuff if you become a member. Yes the initial members did have money at their disposal, but this is 2012 and there is no more money except tremendous debt so what is the incentive for Serbia to join? What to be ruled by Brussels?
Actually I believe that Belgrade no longer wants to join the EU as there are no benefits whatsoever in doing so. Kosovo does not come with 2 million Albanians but it does have 1.2 million, the rest arrived after 1999 from Albania thinking the US would pave the streets of Pristina with gold. An Albanian can run for President, but numbers tell you that he or she has no chance of winning. As far as getting a senior post in government. You have to ask yourself how long will there be 1.20 million Albanians when there is no work in Kosovo and the doors to the EU are open????
There is no more party time in the EU and who ever joins is joining with what they have and if you have nothing……….. Ask the Croats what they expect to get from Brussels; I know, nothing, as Zagreb has been told that it cannot receive any subsidies for 15 to 20 years.
For those that still don’t get it, Kosovo cannot join even if all the five countries recognize tomorrow it because it disputed lands and as the Italians say, finito la muzika.

It´s interesting, B 92 is quite often coming up with some stories that are made up to ease the albanian soul, it seems.
(Jovan, 5 August 2012 13:32)

Why do you claim that if Serbs come here on a daily base just to make their broken record statements that they "do not want Serbia to join EU"? So according them, it must be good news since he is right. Good neighborly relations are neither new, nor there will be an exception for Serbia. 22 countries, soon with Croatia 23, regard Kosovo as an independent state with all consequences.

So "good" news for our Serbian posters here....or not? Make your decision. Btw. you ever hear about a Freudian slip?

Ned Taylor, 5 August 2012 13:24)
Notice he said that Serbia will have to accept Kosovo is an independent state, not that they will have to formally recognize it. Is there a difference, I guess that is a matter of opinion, but there is as much a difference as the argument that a Declaration of Independence is legal but actual secessation is not. If you can buy into that argument then it should be extremely easy to argue that accepting the independence is not the same as recognizing it.

I'd have thought this was a given. Explain to me how Serbia is going to join the EU without recognizing Kosova? In fact, scratch that, how is Serbia going to consolidate its democracy with Kosova? you see, this piece of land comes with 2 million Albanians, you will not get the territory without the populace. the populace will not join you as second class citizens and you very obviously do not want to have an Albanian run to be President of Serbia (that's what equal rights mean, you can have one of us running for the highest office). its simple, the choice that Serbia is not EU or Kosovo, its Kosova or democracy
(adriatik, 5 August 2012 13:23)

how is Kosovo* going to consolidate its democracy with Serbian enclaves? you see, these pieces of land comes with 100000+ Serbss, you will not get the territory without the populace. the populace will not join you as second class citizens and you very obviously do not want to have a Serbian run to be leader of Kosovo* (that's what equal rights mean, you can have one of us running for the highest office).

Ok maybe one day. But not in these borders.
(moris, 5 August 2012 15:32)

Presheva Valley will be included.

Every now and again one of these nobodies is quoted saying Serbia has to recognise etc. ignore.

KiM is still serbian territory, and the UNSC is not going to change that
(Jovan, 5 August 2012 13:32)

Well, Kosovo has been independent from Serbia (meaning Serbia does not decide what happens in Kosovo) since 1999 and formally declared independence in 2008 in accordance with UNSCR 1244. Kosovo is fine with this status quo - but feel free to ask the UNSC to change that if you so wish :)

I want UN/EU seat not Serbian recognition. cannot give a sh.. about Serbian recognition.
(ben, 5 August 2012 19:23)
==============================
Without Serbia's recognition you won't get either.

Why aren`t I surprised ? Everyone with a decent IQ knows that

See you would have to be a moron to think Kosovo* is an independent country because if it was, there shouldn't have to be so much pressure for Serbia to recognize it then. Again nobody asks South Korea to accept North Korea's independence because despite the fact the two don't recognize each other, both are realities that nobody is disputing.

But to hell with the EU. The Eurasian Union is a lot more appealing anyway. Just look at it this way, the countries that are most similar to Serbia inside the EU are also the last two countries to join it. Bulgaria and Romania have not seen more benefits than negatives since membership. By all objective accounts the EU has not been a success for these countries. The domestic economy is shattered, prices rise and even those countries are not in the Shegen agreement and can't even travel visa free which is the only EU related benefit.

Patience will run out, and money will continue to be thrown into that blackhole known as "Kosovo*"

The West will leave "Kosovo *" but Serbs will always have their sights set on liberating Kosovo i Metohija from Albanian occupation

Yes, America's military machine, NATO, is still in full force, but what are they going to do, bomb Serbia again because it won't relinquish its Southern province?
(ecoman, 5 August 2012 17:23)

In case you've missed it, it's the NATO military machine that is Kosovo, not the Serbian army. So, what is Serbia going to do, attack NATO because it won't allow the Serbian army to come back there ?

I cannot see why Serbia needs to accept Kosovo's independence. Of course the fact remains that many 'important' countries have accepted the declaration including 22 EU member states and they are not going to unrecognise Kosovo, but that does not place any obligation on Serbia to follow suit. The crunch will come if Kosovo ever wants to join the EU and the 5 who haven't so far recognised independence change their minds. In view of the reasons for non-recognition, mostly fear of domestic difficulties from those who would like to have their own independence, I cannot see that any of these 5 will reverse their decision and so the issue is irrelevant. Good neighbourly relations does not equate to recognition of independence. The English and Scottish rub along together without daily problems despite the growing clamour for independence on the part of the latter. We have a mutual interest in good relations and this holds us 'together'.

Dont hold your breath. Serbia shoukd pretend to want to join the EU. Tell your enemies everything they want to hear. All the while secretly undermining their every move behind the scenes. Play the wait game. Whats the hurry? We have all the time in the world. They are getting weaker & poorer by the day. Serbs have a very long memory. We will plan & wait for the right time to act. Dont believe me? Just look at our history? When have we not avenged our enemy?

Serbia "will have to, nothing". I am sick and tired of these EU talking heads making demands on Serbia, and what it must do, blah, blah, blah. How about the EU get its ducks in a row, and clean up its financial mess, before making demands on others? The days when the EU, and USA for that matter, spoke from a position of strength, are over. Yes, America's military machine, NATO, is still in full force, but what are they going to do, bomb Serbia again because it won't relinquish its Southern province? My personal recommendation, and to B92 too, ignore these payed EU voices, they carry no weight. Who is European Parliament Foreign Affairs Committee member Gjergj Seflin, anyway? This is a new name to me? And why would his voice demand publication from this news site?

"Accept" is different than "recognize" and that's the rub. I suspect by the time Serbia's EU membership is up for a vote (assuming the EU even exists at that time), plans will already have been agreed over Kosovo*. The north is already being prepared for South Tyrolean-like autonomy by the very powers that are telling Serbia to make nice with a so-called "state" that has no actual power over its own sovereignty. I also suspect similar rights will eventually be given to the other Serb enclaves in Novo Brdo, Strpce, Gnjilane, and Kosovska Kamenica that Ahtisaari was so kind to carve out of a new state and give powers of autonomy no real state would want for their own. So if Serbia really has to "accept" Kosovo is whatever certain EU officials think it is, by that point, Kosovo* will simultaneously have to accept that Serbia continues to control significant part of its own "territory". Of course this says nothing about recognition, and as far as 5 EU states are concerned, this doesn't do anything to improve Kosovo's* chances of getting into the EU.

I cannot care less if Serbia will recognize us or not.

I want UN/EU seat not Serbian recognition. cannot give a sh.. about Serbian recognition.

It sounds to me like all the conspirators with organ traffickers from Kosovo are throwing their weight around to divert the public attention from the real issue.

More likely, a lot of criminals involved in supporting "independent Kosovo" will have to be indicted for war crimes and crimes agains humanity.

Oh dear me Checkmate: "when have we not avenged our enemies"?...I am afraid that in one sentence you have made the case for independence not just in Kosovo but in all the other territories of the Balkans. It is precisely because of this attitude that Bosnians, Slovenians, Macedonians, Montenegrins and Croats wanted to run their own affairs rather than have people who regarded them as enemies do it for them. Tito may have been delaying the inevitable by suppressing nationalism but he held the 'club' together for 35 years. Thankfully you are in a minority but perhaps not a big enough one.

'Think about it..': you make a good point but I think that this individual for whom English is not a first language probably meant 'accept' as 'recognise'. Either way, I don't believe that Serbia has to do either of these. Clearly there will be a price to pay if they continually thwart the wishes of the EU but from my conversations with Serbian friends it is a price that they are prepared to pay.

“According to the Copenhagen criteria, the states that want to join the EU need to implement a policy of good neighborly relations with all their neighbors," he told Novi Sad-based daily Dnevnik.

Yes, but does a unrecognized pseudo-entity like Kosovo qualifies as a 'neighbor'? It's obvious for everyone that Kosovo has not the same status as normal countries.

Serbia "will have to, nothing". I am sick and tired of these EU talking heads making demands on Serbia, and what it must do, blah, blah, blah. How about the EU get its ducks in a row, and clean up its financial mess, before making demands on others? The days when the EU, and USA for that matter, spoke from a position of strength, are over. Yes, America's military machine, NATO, is still in full force, but what are they going to do, bomb Serbia again because it won't relinquish its Southern province? My personal recommendation, and to B92 too, ignore these payed EU voices, they carry no weight. Who is European Parliament Foreign Affairs Committee member Gjergj Seflin, anyway? This is a new name to me? And why would his voice demand publication from this news site?
(ecoman, 5 August 2012 17:23)

Simple close the border is not to hard they just are giving Serbia a chance to not loos face as Serbs like to say. Close the border and what will the Serbs do then star dancing to the toon of what music is playing.

No need to Bomb Serbia.

Oh course GJERGJ Seflin is going to say that Serbia has to recognize the UDI! GJERGJ is an Albanian! GJERGJ is a Catholic Albanian name and I'm pretty sure only Albanians spell George that way. Example: Gjergj Kastrioti,Gjergj Fishta. Im pretty sure what Gjergj is saying has no relevance. Many EU countrys have said that they will never condition Serbia with recognition of the UDI, they only require te Belgrade-Pristina dialogue to be succesful and bring a normality to the situation in Kosovo. And even if this requirment was put on Serbia, Both the opposition (Democrats) and the government (Progressives&Socialists) have said they will drop the EU. Believe me, the Albanians will not be able to keep up this no negotiations on status phase they have been whining anout these past 4 years because they will not be able to join the EU and investors will stay away as long as Kosovo is in limbo. Serbia will also need to come to agreement with Pristina since it is being pressured as well. Both sides jn the end will have to come to some sort of agreement that allows them to not give up their positions on status and makes both sides happy. Two of the best solutions would be dual sovereignty where both Belgrade and Pristina have their institutions in Kosovo. Another solution is to give Pristina sovereignty or full control of Kosovo but Serbia keeps the territorial integrity over Kosovo so Kosovo is a part of Serbia in name. Both very good solutions that dont make anyone change their stands

Presheva Valley will be included.
(Avni, 5 August 2012 17:29)

No it won't.

I think that Serbia is all too ready to accept Albanian independence inside Kosovo and Serbia generally as long as Serbia controls borders between Kosovo and the rest of Serbia and between Serbia and Albania. And this is really why a military contest is most risked in the present situation. If the Serbs were free to act militarily again in Kosovo, independence of Albanians in Serbia would be something Serbs would insist on. The Serbs have never been genocidal, but they've never been suicidal either.

dear me sj, if the EU is broke and unable to finance 'its' Kosova project, do you think Serbia has enough to finance hers? oh i'm glad to see you have reverted back to you claims which cannot be substantiated anywhere, like Serbia has to open its labor markets to K. Albanians (not found anywhere). as for you letting us starve, well, we don't depend on you do we? better take care of those 10000 Serb children who are suffering malnutrition rather than worry about us K.Albanians

Neighbours.... well, Kosovo is not a neighbour of Serbia but acutally a PART of Serbia.

By the way: will this apply also to Gergia and Ossetia/Abkhazia?
No double standards, you know!

but this is 2012 and there is no more money except tremendous debt so what is the incentive for Serbia to join?
(sj, 5 August 2012 14:02)

Excellent analysis, as usual. Kosovo can’t agree with you more – Serbia joining the EU is not only a trouble of Serbia itself but for Kosovo, as well, as Serbia as an EU member will cause trouble in the EU’s decisions regarding Kosovo.
----------

Kosovo does not come with 2 million Albanians but it does have 1.2 million, the rest arrived after 1999 from Albania thinking the US would pave the streets of Pristina with gold.
(sj, 5 August 2012 14:02)

Very interesting… 800000 Albanians cloned in Albania and sent to Kosovo, as Albania’s population remained more or less the same.
----------

You have to ask yourself how long will there be 1.20 million Albanians when there is no work in Kosovo and the doors to the EU are open????
(sj, 5 August 2012 14:02)

But Albanians will prosper in Kosovo under Serbia; I assume that’s why you are suggesting that Kosovo will join the Serbian paradise because it will be much better for its inhabitants.
----------

For those that still don’t get it, Kosovo cannot join even if all the five countries recognize tomorrow it because it disputed lands and as the Italians say, finito la muzika.
(sj, 5 August 2012 14:02)

Well, that’s for the EU to decide, but I’m sure the EU will get it after conferring with you because you are the CE of the 92 forums :)

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

The eu is a false idol. When countries like Serbia get in they invariably regret it. Free trade, yes, political union no. Sometimes I wonder if we are like an abused husband/wife who gets used to the abuse and actually can't live without it. Let's copy what they do in Croatia judiciary wise and pick the best laws and systems, and say no thank you. There is no patent on eu integration process. They don't treat us with respect and I don't want to be in a relationship like that.

There must have been changes to the UN Charter and EU treaties of recent that I have missed which make Serb the final authority to decide who becomes a member of the UN and EU for countries wishing to join...
(icj1, 6 August 2012 06:16)
=====================================
Maybe not, but there is Russia who has said that they will support any decision that Serbia makes. This take care of the UN.
Then there is Cyprus who also stated that they will not recognse Kosovo even if Serbia does so you see, you are blocked from every direction.
Now tell me if I am wrong.

I do support Serbia getting back Kosovo, but it is going to lead to bloodshed,
unfortunately hatred between Serbia and Albania was created by the ottoman invasion.

Ok maybe one day. But not in these borders.

I want UN/EU seat not Serbian recognition. cannot give a sh.. about Serbian recognition.
(ben, 5 August 2012 19:23)

You need Serbia's recognition to get a UN seat. Try getting around that Russian/Chinese veto without one.

Kosovo is not an independent state but it is a Circus Colony of NATO used to distract the Serbs from their real enemies and problems.

Serbia should get out of the NWO and out of the EU/USA

"Without Serbia's recognition you won't get either."

If Serbia didn't support Russia on a UN vote that Russia really wanted support for - the Syria vote - how much longer do you figure Russia will continue to support Serbia? Kommersant pointed out, rather sadly, that "even Serbia" voted in solidarity with the EU. You have to give loyalty if you expect to get it.

“According to the Copenhagen criteria, the states that want to join the EU need to implement a policy of good neighborly relations with all their neighbors," he told Novi Sad-based daily Dnevnik.

Yes, but does a unrecognized pseudo-entity like Kosovo qualifies as a 'neighbor'? It's obvious for everyone that Kosovo has not the same status as normal countries.
(Questioner, 5 August 2012 18:58)

this is what you think, but 22 European states which recognized independent Kosovo would not agree with you. I do not think they are going to change that policy because Serbia does not like it.

Without Serbia's recognition you won't get either.
(Peggy, 5 August 2012 22:39)

There must have been changes to the UN Charter and EU treaties of recent that I have missed which make Serb the final authority to decide who becomes a member of the UN and EU for countries wishing to join...

(iso, 6 August 2012 14:07)
Serbia does not want to join the EU. That show is over and all you have now is words from Belgrade that Brussels likes to hear and nothing more.
“serbia won`t have kosovo in its own benefits anymore not until USA and Great Britain exist”
The US is now 16.8 trillion in debt and will burst the 17 trillion mark by December 2012. The US Government has an unfunded liability of 115 trillion (this is pensions, medical etc that need to be paid for in the future). Look at how easily the Russians/Chinese set the US up over Syria, played them like a Stradivarius violin.
Great Britain has made two trips to the IMF to get loans to stave off bankruptcy. It’s an accepted fact that no one knows whats going to happen after the Olympic games, most think unemployment will rise sharply again.
And after all that you were saying something about the US and Great Britain (gee a has been empire trying to make itself fell a power again so they call themselves Great Britain; sad isn’t it?)

(icj1, 6 August 2012 06:30)
“Excellent analysis, as usual. Kosovo can’t agree with you more – Serbia joining the EU is not only a trouble of Serbia itself but for Kosovo, as well, as Serbia as an EU member will cause trouble in the EU’s decisions regarding Kosovo”
The EU is broke and the magic pudding is no more so what you Albos expect is beyond me. The EU has borrowed very large sums from the Chinese recently to stave off collapse. The UK has gone to the IMF twice to get loans to stave off economic collapse – yes not once but twice. I bet little was said about that one in the freedom loving press. The days of money being thrown around are over and Serbia knows that only too well so what’s the point of joining a defunct entity that is barely hanging onto by its fingernails. Serbia will create even more problems once the South stream passes through as it will control the life blood of Europe, or the other half anyway.
“Very interesting… 800000 Albanians ....”
The number of Albanians in Kosovo is much like a fisherman and the tails of the one that got away “It was this big……”
“But Albanians will prosper in Kosovo under Serbia; I assume that’s why you are suggesting that Kosovo will join the Serbian paradise because it will be much better for its inhabitants”
Good God no. I’d rather let all of you starve. Brussels wants Serbia to recognize Kosovo then allow it to integrate into the Serbian economy.

If Serbia didn't support Russia on a UN vote that Russia really wanted support for - the Syria vote - how much longer do you figure Russia will continue to support Serbia? Kommersant pointed out, rather sadly, that "even Serbia" voted in solidarity with the EU. You have to give loyalty if you expect to get it.
(Amer, 6 August 2012 08:03)
No that was the Tadic regeme. That’s why Moscow replaced him with Nikolic.

My god can`t u understand that EU clearly stated "They won`t bring in another Cyprus" , so Serbia has no chance to get in EU with a territorial dispute , the only way is to recognize Kosovo as a country if it`ll be with a formal recognition or indirectly that will remain to be seen, but serbia recognizing kosovo as a country will benefit to both , serbia in eu, kosovo will get a un seat and they won`t need to travel around the world to beg for recognition , serbia won`t have kosovo in its own benefits anymore not until USA and Great Britain exist , so why keep a land which only harms them and doesn`t give the smallest benefit.

No point, everyone with some rational mind would agree with me. I know it :)

SJ: The 'great' in Great Britain refers to it being an amalgamation of various nation states and in no way implies that it is something special, which it clearly is not. It is similar to the way that Greater Serbia is used to describe a potential area that encompasses all Serbs.

Maybe not
(Peggy, 6 August 2012 12:06)

That's what I thought... thanks for clarifying

Well, there wasn't any case to make. I just asked whether there have been changes to the UN Charter and EU treaties and you said "Maybe not" and continued on with providing the reasons why. I did not ask for the reasons; I trust your judgment :) I just wanted to know if the UN Charter and EU treaties had changed of recent.
(icj1, 8 August 2012 05:26)
==================================

I told you that Serbia did not need to veto anything so it makes no difference if there has been any changes or not. The reasons were very important to my answer and part of my answer.
Maybe not was only part of my answer and you know that. You are one irritating little person.

Next time use my whole answer. Bits of it are not going to make your case.
(Peggy, 7 August 2012 15:46)

Well, there wasn't any case to make. I just asked whether there have been changes to the UN Charter and EU treaties and you said "Maybe not" and continued on with providing the reasons why. I did not ask for the reasons; I trust your judgment :) I just wanted to know if the UN Charter and EU treaties had changed of recent.

Maybe not
(Peggy, 6 August 2012 12:06)

That's what I thought... thanks for clarifying
(icj1, 7 August 2012 03:01)
==================================
Next time use my whole answer. Bits of it are not going to make your case.

I'd have thought this was a given. Explain to me how Serbia is going to join the EU without recognizing Kosova? In fact, scratch that, how is Serbia going to consolidate its democracy with Kosova? you see, this piece of land comes with 2 million Albanians, you will not get the territory without the populace. the populace will not join you as second class citizens and you very obviously do not want to have an Albanian run to be President of Serbia (that's what equal rights mean, you can have one of us running for the highest office). its simple, the choice that Serbia is not EU or Kosovo, its Kosova or democracy

well, Gjergi could be wrong... =)

It´s interesting, B 92 is quite often coming up with some stories that are made up to ease the albanian soul, it seems.

not that they are bound to reality, but that´s not the matter, it is still B 92 though.

KiM is still serbian territory, and the UNSC is not going to change that, so ...sooner or later, Serbia is rather going to liberate what is serbian anway, instead of "accepting" something like this socalled "independence"...

Ok maybe one day. But not in these borders.

So you know what, Serbia then does not join the EU, simple as that. If blackmail is allowed in this Union, then why would Serbia want to join this decaying entity? But lets not get too far ahead of ourselves - the EU is not doing too well, and a break up seems 50/50 for now. One day at a time, my friends. In the meantime, how is that investigation going into the organ-harvesting by Thaci and the KLA? I hear little about that - except for the news today that Germany is involved.

I cannot see why Serbia needs to accept Kosovo's independence. Of course the fact remains that many 'important' countries have accepted the declaration including 22 EU member states and they are not going to unrecognise Kosovo, but that does not place any obligation on Serbia to follow suit. The crunch will come if Kosovo ever wants to join the EU and the 5 who haven't so far recognised independence change their minds. In view of the reasons for non-recognition, mostly fear of domestic difficulties from those who would like to have their own independence, I cannot see that any of these 5 will reverse their decision and so the issue is irrelevant. Good neighbourly relations does not equate to recognition of independence. The English and Scottish rub along together without daily problems despite the growing clamour for independence on the part of the latter. We have a mutual interest in good relations and this holds us 'together'.

What sort of rubbish is this?
Croatia is far from having good relations with it's neighbours, i.e. Slovenia and Serbia and is on it's way to joining EU.
Why is it up to Serbia only anyway. Does nobody think that Croatia has a lot of blame to carry for it's part in what happened? Unless Serbia gets on her knees and does whatever the likes of Croatia want are they going to say that Serbia does not want good neighbourly relations? Good relations are a two way street so to put the blame squarely on Serbia is to insist that Serbia capitulates.
This is blackmail pure and simple.
Serbia needs to destroy herself in order to get into that club. Price is too high.

Dont hold your breath. Serbia shoukd pretend to want to join the EU. Tell your enemies everything they want to hear. All the while secretly undermining their every move behind the scenes. Play the wait game. Whats the hurry? We have all the time in the world. They are getting weaker & poorer by the day. Serbs have a very long memory. We will plan & wait for the right time to act. Dont believe me? Just look at our history? When have we not avenged our enemy?

(adriatik, 5 August 2012 13:23)
First of all the EU of 2012 is not the same as the EU of the 1990s. The magic pudding waived at people in Europe to join the EU was money and the implication of lots of that stuff if you become a member. Yes the initial members did have money at their disposal, but this is 2012 and there is no more money except tremendous debt so what is the incentive for Serbia to join? What to be ruled by Brussels?
Actually I believe that Belgrade no longer wants to join the EU as there are no benefits whatsoever in doing so. Kosovo does not come with 2 million Albanians but it does have 1.2 million, the rest arrived after 1999 from Albania thinking the US would pave the streets of Pristina with gold. An Albanian can run for President, but numbers tell you that he or she has no chance of winning. As far as getting a senior post in government. You have to ask yourself how long will there be 1.20 million Albanians when there is no work in Kosovo and the doors to the EU are open????
There is no more party time in the EU and who ever joins is joining with what they have and if you have nothing……….. Ask the Croats what they expect to get from Brussels; I know, nothing, as Zagreb has been told that it cannot receive any subsidies for 15 to 20 years.
For those that still don’t get it, Kosovo cannot join even if all the five countries recognize tomorrow it because it disputed lands and as the Italians say, finito la muzika.

Ok maybe one day. But not in these borders.
(moris, 5 August 2012 15:32)

Presheva Valley will be included.

I'd have thought this was a given. Explain to me how Serbia is going to join the EU without recognizing Kosova? In fact, scratch that, how is Serbia going to consolidate its democracy with Kosova? you see, this piece of land comes with 2 million Albanians, you will not get the territory without the populace. the populace will not join you as second class citizens and you very obviously do not want to have an Albanian run to be President of Serbia (that's what equal rights mean, you can have one of us running for the highest office). its simple, the choice that Serbia is not EU or Kosovo, its Kosova or democracy
(adriatik, 5 August 2012 13:23)

how is Kosovo* going to consolidate its democracy with Serbian enclaves? you see, these pieces of land comes with 100000+ Serbss, you will not get the territory without the populace. the populace will not join you as second class citizens and you very obviously do not want to have a Serbian run to be leader of Kosovo* (that's what equal rights mean, you can have one of us running for the highest office).

See you would have to be a moron to think Kosovo* is an independent country because if it was, there shouldn't have to be so much pressure for Serbia to recognize it then. Again nobody asks South Korea to accept North Korea's independence because despite the fact the two don't recognize each other, both are realities that nobody is disputing.

But to hell with the EU. The Eurasian Union is a lot more appealing anyway. Just look at it this way, the countries that are most similar to Serbia inside the EU are also the last two countries to join it. Bulgaria and Romania have not seen more benefits than negatives since membership. By all objective accounts the EU has not been a success for these countries. The domestic economy is shattered, prices rise and even those countries are not in the Shegen agreement and can't even travel visa free which is the only EU related benefit.

Patience will run out, and money will continue to be thrown into that blackhole known as "Kosovo*"

The West will leave "Kosovo *" but Serbs will always have their sights set on liberating Kosovo i Metohija from Albanian occupation

Serbia "will have to, nothing". I am sick and tired of these EU talking heads making demands on Serbia, and what it must do, blah, blah, blah. How about the EU get its ducks in a row, and clean up its financial mess, before making demands on others? The days when the EU, and USA for that matter, spoke from a position of strength, are over. Yes, America's military machine, NATO, is still in full force, but what are they going to do, bomb Serbia again because it won't relinquish its Southern province? My personal recommendation, and to B92 too, ignore these payed EU voices, they carry no weight. Who is European Parliament Foreign Affairs Committee member Gjergj Seflin, anyway? This is a new name to me? And why would his voice demand publication from this news site?

Why aren`t I surprised ? Everyone with a decent IQ knows that

“According to the Copenhagen criteria, the states that want to join the EU need to implement a policy of good neighborly relations with all their neighbors," he told Novi Sad-based daily Dnevnik.

Yes, but does a unrecognized pseudo-entity like Kosovo qualifies as a 'neighbor'? It's obvious for everyone that Kosovo has not the same status as normal countries.

I cannot care less if Serbia will recognize us or not.

I want UN/EU seat not Serbian recognition. cannot give a sh.. about Serbian recognition.

Serbia "will have to, nothing". I am sick and tired of these EU talking heads making demands on Serbia, and what it must do, blah, blah, blah. How about the EU get its ducks in a row, and clean up its financial mess, before making demands on others? The days when the EU, and USA for that matter, spoke from a position of strength, are over. Yes, America's military machine, NATO, is still in full force, but what are they going to do, bomb Serbia again because it won't relinquish its Southern province? My personal recommendation, and to B92 too, ignore these payed EU voices, they carry no weight. Who is European Parliament Foreign Affairs Committee member Gjergj Seflin, anyway? This is a new name to me? And why would his voice demand publication from this news site?
(ecoman, 5 August 2012 17:23)

Simple close the border is not to hard they just are giving Serbia a chance to not loos face as Serbs like to say. Close the border and what will the Serbs do then star dancing to the toon of what music is playing.

No need to Bomb Serbia.

Neighbours.... well, Kosovo is not a neighbour of Serbia but acutally a PART of Serbia.

By the way: will this apply also to Gergia and Ossetia/Abkhazia?
No double standards, you know!

KiM is still serbian territory, and the UNSC is not going to change that
(Jovan, 5 August 2012 13:32)

Well, Kosovo has been independent from Serbia (meaning Serbia does not decide what happens in Kosovo) since 1999 and formally declared independence in 2008 in accordance with UNSCR 1244. Kosovo is fine with this status quo - but feel free to ask the UNSC to change that if you so wish :)

Yes, America's military machine, NATO, is still in full force, but what are they going to do, bomb Serbia again because it won't relinquish its Southern province?
(ecoman, 5 August 2012 17:23)

In case you've missed it, it's the NATO military machine that is Kosovo, not the Serbian army. So, what is Serbia going to do, attack NATO because it won't allow the Serbian army to come back there ?

I want UN/EU seat not Serbian recognition. cannot give a sh.. about Serbian recognition.
(ben, 5 August 2012 19:23)
==============================
Without Serbia's recognition you won't get either.

I think that Serbia is all too ready to accept Albanian independence inside Kosovo and Serbia generally as long as Serbia controls borders between Kosovo and the rest of Serbia and between Serbia and Albania. And this is really why a military contest is most risked in the present situation. If the Serbs were free to act militarily again in Kosovo, independence of Albanians in Serbia would be something Serbs would insist on. The Serbs have never been genocidal, but they've never been suicidal either.

Every now and again one of these nobodies is quoted saying Serbia has to recognise etc. ignore.

"Accept" is different than "recognize" and that's the rub. I suspect by the time Serbia's EU membership is up for a vote (assuming the EU even exists at that time), plans will already have been agreed over Kosovo*. The north is already being prepared for South Tyrolean-like autonomy by the very powers that are telling Serbia to make nice with a so-called "state" that has no actual power over its own sovereignty. I also suspect similar rights will eventually be given to the other Serb enclaves in Novo Brdo, Strpce, Gnjilane, and Kosovska Kamenica that Ahtisaari was so kind to carve out of a new state and give powers of autonomy no real state would want for their own. So if Serbia really has to "accept" Kosovo is whatever certain EU officials think it is, by that point, Kosovo* will simultaneously have to accept that Serbia continues to control significant part of its own "territory". Of course this says nothing about recognition, and as far as 5 EU states are concerned, this doesn't do anything to improve Kosovo's* chances of getting into the EU.

Oh course GJERGJ Seflin is going to say that Serbia has to recognize the UDI! GJERGJ is an Albanian! GJERGJ is a Catholic Albanian name and I'm pretty sure only Albanians spell George that way. Example: Gjergj Kastrioti,Gjergj Fishta. Im pretty sure what Gjergj is saying has no relevance. Many EU countrys have said that they will never condition Serbia with recognition of the UDI, they only require te Belgrade-Pristina dialogue to be succesful and bring a normality to the situation in Kosovo. And even if this requirment was put on Serbia, Both the opposition (Democrats) and the government (Progressives&Socialists) have said they will drop the EU. Believe me, the Albanians will not be able to keep up this no negotiations on status phase they have been whining anout these past 4 years because they will not be able to join the EU and investors will stay away as long as Kosovo is in limbo. Serbia will also need to come to agreement with Pristina since it is being pressured as well. Both sides jn the end will have to come to some sort of agreement that allows them to not give up their positions on status and makes both sides happy. Two of the best solutions would be dual sovereignty where both Belgrade and Pristina have their institutions in Kosovo. Another solution is to give Pristina sovereignty or full control of Kosovo but Serbia keeps the territorial integrity over Kosovo so Kosovo is a part of Serbia in name. Both very good solutions that dont make anyone change their stands

There must have been changes to the UN Charter and EU treaties of recent that I have missed which make Serb the final authority to decide who becomes a member of the UN and EU for countries wishing to join...
(icj1, 6 August 2012 06:16)
=====================================
Maybe not, but there is Russia who has said that they will support any decision that Serbia makes. This take care of the UN.
Then there is Cyprus who also stated that they will not recognse Kosovo even if Serbia does so you see, you are blocked from every direction.
Now tell me if I am wrong.

Ned Taylor, 5 August 2012 13:24)
Notice he said that Serbia will have to accept Kosovo is an independent state, not that they will have to formally recognize it. Is there a difference, I guess that is a matter of opinion, but there is as much a difference as the argument that a Declaration of Independence is legal but actual secessation is not. If you can buy into that argument then it should be extremely easy to argue that accepting the independence is not the same as recognizing it.

It´s interesting, B 92 is quite often coming up with some stories that are made up to ease the albanian soul, it seems.
(Jovan, 5 August 2012 13:32)

Why do you claim that if Serbs come here on a daily base just to make their broken record statements that they "do not want Serbia to join EU"? So according them, it must be good news since he is right. Good neighborly relations are neither new, nor there will be an exception for Serbia. 22 countries, soon with Croatia 23, regard Kosovo as an independent state with all consequences.

So "good" news for our Serbian posters here....or not? Make your decision. Btw. you ever hear about a Freudian slip?

Presheva Valley will be included.
(Avni, 5 August 2012 17:29)

No it won't.

It sounds to me like all the conspirators with organ traffickers from Kosovo are throwing their weight around to divert the public attention from the real issue.

More likely, a lot of criminals involved in supporting "independent Kosovo" will have to be indicted for war crimes and crimes agains humanity.

I do support Serbia getting back Kosovo, but it is going to lead to bloodshed,
unfortunately hatred between Serbia and Albania was created by the ottoman invasion.

Oh dear me Checkmate: "when have we not avenged our enemies"?...I am afraid that in one sentence you have made the case for independence not just in Kosovo but in all the other territories of the Balkans. It is precisely because of this attitude that Bosnians, Slovenians, Macedonians, Montenegrins and Croats wanted to run their own affairs rather than have people who regarded them as enemies do it for them. Tito may have been delaying the inevitable by suppressing nationalism but he held the 'club' together for 35 years. Thankfully you are in a minority but perhaps not a big enough one.

'Think about it..': you make a good point but I think that this individual for whom English is not a first language probably meant 'accept' as 'recognise'. Either way, I don't believe that Serbia has to do either of these. Clearly there will be a price to pay if they continually thwart the wishes of the EU but from my conversations with Serbian friends it is a price that they are prepared to pay.

I want UN/EU seat not Serbian recognition. cannot give a sh.. about Serbian recognition.
(ben, 5 August 2012 19:23)

You need Serbia's recognition to get a UN seat. Try getting around that Russian/Chinese veto without one.

dear me sj, if the EU is broke and unable to finance 'its' Kosova project, do you think Serbia has enough to finance hers? oh i'm glad to see you have reverted back to you claims which cannot be substantiated anywhere, like Serbia has to open its labor markets to K. Albanians (not found anywhere). as for you letting us starve, well, we don't depend on you do we? better take care of those 10000 Serb children who are suffering malnutrition rather than worry about us K.Albanians

“According to the Copenhagen criteria, the states that want to join the EU need to implement a policy of good neighborly relations with all their neighbors," he told Novi Sad-based daily Dnevnik.

Yes, but does a unrecognized pseudo-entity like Kosovo qualifies as a 'neighbor'? It's obvious for everyone that Kosovo has not the same status as normal countries.
(Questioner, 5 August 2012 18:58)

this is what you think, but 22 European states which recognized independent Kosovo would not agree with you. I do not think they are going to change that policy because Serbia does not like it.

The eu is a false idol. When countries like Serbia get in they invariably regret it. Free trade, yes, political union no. Sometimes I wonder if we are like an abused husband/wife who gets used to the abuse and actually can't live without it. Let's copy what they do in Croatia judiciary wise and pick the best laws and systems, and say no thank you. There is no patent on eu integration process. They don't treat us with respect and I don't want to be in a relationship like that.

(icj1, 6 August 2012 06:30)
“Excellent analysis, as usual. Kosovo can’t agree with you more – Serbia joining the EU is not only a trouble of Serbia itself but for Kosovo, as well, as Serbia as an EU member will cause trouble in the EU’s decisions regarding Kosovo”
The EU is broke and the magic pudding is no more so what you Albos expect is beyond me. The EU has borrowed very large sums from the Chinese recently to stave off collapse. The UK has gone to the IMF twice to get loans to stave off economic collapse – yes not once but twice. I bet little was said about that one in the freedom loving press. The days of money being thrown around are over and Serbia knows that only too well so what’s the point of joining a defunct entity that is barely hanging onto by its fingernails. Serbia will create even more problems once the South stream passes through as it will control the life blood of Europe, or the other half anyway.
“Very interesting… 800000 Albanians ....”
The number of Albanians in Kosovo is much like a fisherman and the tails of the one that got away “It was this big……”
“But Albanians will prosper in Kosovo under Serbia; I assume that’s why you are suggesting that Kosovo will join the Serbian paradise because it will be much better for its inhabitants”
Good God no. I’d rather let all of you starve. Brussels wants Serbia to recognize Kosovo then allow it to integrate into the Serbian economy.

If Serbia didn't support Russia on a UN vote that Russia really wanted support for - the Syria vote - how much longer do you figure Russia will continue to support Serbia? Kommersant pointed out, rather sadly, that "even Serbia" voted in solidarity with the EU. You have to give loyalty if you expect to get it.
(Amer, 6 August 2012 08:03)
No that was the Tadic regeme. That’s why Moscow replaced him with Nikolic.

Kosovo is not an independent state but it is a Circus Colony of NATO used to distract the Serbs from their real enemies and problems.

Serbia should get out of the NWO and out of the EU/USA

My god can`t u understand that EU clearly stated "They won`t bring in another Cyprus" , so Serbia has no chance to get in EU with a territorial dispute , the only way is to recognize Kosovo as a country if it`ll be with a formal recognition or indirectly that will remain to be seen, but serbia recognizing kosovo as a country will benefit to both , serbia in eu, kosovo will get a un seat and they won`t need to travel around the world to beg for recognition , serbia won`t have kosovo in its own benefits anymore not until USA and Great Britain exist , so why keep a land which only harms them and doesn`t give the smallest benefit.

No point, everyone with some rational mind would agree with me. I know it :)

(iso, 6 August 2012 14:07)
Serbia does not want to join the EU. That show is over and all you have now is words from Belgrade that Brussels likes to hear and nothing more.
“serbia won`t have kosovo in its own benefits anymore not until USA and Great Britain exist”
The US is now 16.8 trillion in debt and will burst the 17 trillion mark by December 2012. The US Government has an unfunded liability of 115 trillion (this is pensions, medical etc that need to be paid for in the future). Look at how easily the Russians/Chinese set the US up over Syria, played them like a Stradivarius violin.
Great Britain has made two trips to the IMF to get loans to stave off bankruptcy. It’s an accepted fact that no one knows whats going to happen after the Olympic games, most think unemployment will rise sharply again.
And after all that you were saying something about the US and Great Britain (gee a has been empire trying to make itself fell a power again so they call themselves Great Britain; sad isn’t it?)

SJ: The 'great' in Great Britain refers to it being an amalgamation of various nation states and in no way implies that it is something special, which it clearly is not. It is similar to the way that Greater Serbia is used to describe a potential area that encompasses all Serbs.

"Without Serbia's recognition you won't get either."

If Serbia didn't support Russia on a UN vote that Russia really wanted support for - the Syria vote - how much longer do you figure Russia will continue to support Serbia? Kommersant pointed out, rather sadly, that "even Serbia" voted in solidarity with the EU. You have to give loyalty if you expect to get it.

Without Serbia's recognition you won't get either.
(Peggy, 5 August 2012 22:39)

There must have been changes to the UN Charter and EU treaties of recent that I have missed which make Serb the final authority to decide who becomes a member of the UN and EU for countries wishing to join...

Maybe not
(Peggy, 6 August 2012 12:06)

That's what I thought... thanks for clarifying

but this is 2012 and there is no more money except tremendous debt so what is the incentive for Serbia to join?
(sj, 5 August 2012 14:02)

Excellent analysis, as usual. Kosovo can’t agree with you more – Serbia joining the EU is not only a trouble of Serbia itself but for Kosovo, as well, as Serbia as an EU member will cause trouble in the EU’s decisions regarding Kosovo.
----------

Kosovo does not come with 2 million Albanians but it does have 1.2 million, the rest arrived after 1999 from Albania thinking the US would pave the streets of Pristina with gold.
(sj, 5 August 2012 14:02)

Very interesting… 800000 Albanians cloned in Albania and sent to Kosovo, as Albania’s population remained more or less the same.
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You have to ask yourself how long will there be 1.20 million Albanians when there is no work in Kosovo and the doors to the EU are open????
(sj, 5 August 2012 14:02)

But Albanians will prosper in Kosovo under Serbia; I assume that’s why you are suggesting that Kosovo will join the Serbian paradise because it will be much better for its inhabitants.
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For those that still don’t get it, Kosovo cannot join even if all the five countries recognize tomorrow it because it disputed lands and as the Italians say, finito la muzika.
(sj, 5 August 2012 14:02)

Well, that’s for the EU to decide, but I’m sure the EU will get it after conferring with you because you are the CE of the 92 forums :)

P.S. CE = Chief Economist

Maybe not
(Peggy, 6 August 2012 12:06)

That's what I thought... thanks for clarifying
(icj1, 7 August 2012 03:01)
==================================
Next time use my whole answer. Bits of it are not going to make your case.

Next time use my whole answer. Bits of it are not going to make your case.
(Peggy, 7 August 2012 15:46)

Well, there wasn't any case to make. I just asked whether there have been changes to the UN Charter and EU treaties and you said "Maybe not" and continued on with providing the reasons why. I did not ask for the reasons; I trust your judgment :) I just wanted to know if the UN Charter and EU treaties had changed of recent.

Well, there wasn't any case to make. I just asked whether there have been changes to the UN Charter and EU treaties and you said "Maybe not" and continued on with providing the reasons why. I did not ask for the reasons; I trust your judgment :) I just wanted to know if the UN Charter and EU treaties had changed of recent.
(icj1, 8 August 2012 05:26)
==================================

I told you that Serbia did not need to veto anything so it makes no difference if there has been any changes or not. The reasons were very important to my answer and part of my answer.
Maybe not was only part of my answer and you know that. You are one irritating little person.