Thursday, 19.07.2012.
10:32
Serbia’s President Tomislav Nikolić has stated he was "ready to assume responsibility and lead the fight for Kosovo".
Izvor: Tanjug
IMAGE SOURCE
pre 11 godina
I think its time Bulgaria and Serbia and Croatia put their differences aside and unite. Its time Bulgaria uses its Uranium resources and builds a nuclear weapon as its the only think that can scare NATO as is the case with Iran and North Korea, If your asking where would this weapon be used how about Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Luxembourg where all the money is and we all know all they care about is their money and they would do anything to protect it.
pre 11 godina
...ask yourself why kosovo's autonomy was stripped in the first place, it was because you albaninas were abusing it, behaving like criminals and hooligans killing serbs, other ethnic minorities and officers even before the war started . and the fact is that you know who was part of the terrorist kla so dont play games with me, the fact that some of you albanians support them makes you no better than the criminals and terrorists that were in the kla
...
@Alex,
KLA in 1989?Thats new.Continue to make up the lies my friend.
And no,U never r going to run Kosova again.Get used with this fact.
pre 11 godina
@icj1
who said ill be watching the fight?? i realize you albanians are used to having other people fight your battles for you but dont confuse me with you
i will gladly join in and help my fellow serbs fight for kosovo when the time comes
pre 11 godina
just wait the fight for kosovo will NEVER be over
(Aleks, 21 July 2012 09:51)
Sure, nice preaching... others will fight for your dreams as you watch from your armchair
pre 11 godina
Pfaff- piffle. Serbia has accepted its responsibility a million times over. It has been bombed by NATO for gods sake. It is you and your quislings who need to accept their history and guilt. They need to be forgiven for a whole lot more.
pre 11 godina
oh aleks, i've grown accustomed to reading arguments like yours here. its never the fault of serbia. its either america, germany, ungrateful albanians or the vatican. never serbia or the serbs
pre 11 godina
@Mirel from Albania
ask yourself why kosovo's autonomy was stripped in the first place, it was because you albaninas were abusing it, behaving like criminals and hooligans killing serbs, other ethnic minorities and officers even before the war started . and the fact is that you know who was part of the terrorist kla so dont play games with me, the fact that some of you albanians support them makes you no better than the criminals and terrorists that were in the kla
and there is no peace in the balkans becasue albanians keep trying to steal not only seria's land but macedonia's, greece's & montenegro's . you dont see serbs going into albania and trying to take a piece of it becasue it is albanian, just like albanians shouldn't be taking kosovo from serbs becasue its serbian .. if you didnt like milosevic or your life there then why didnt you people go back to albania
just wait the fight for kosovo will NEVER be over until serbs have regained control over ALL of kosovo . there will be another war coming mark my words .. the serbs are just waiting for the opportune moment to strike .. throughout serb history many groups have tried to conquer us and take our lands but we eventually defeated them and drove them out .. albanians will suffer the same fate as the ottomans, hapsburgs, and nazis/fascists
if you want peace then stop supporting criminals/terrorists, stop terrorizing serbs and other minorities and stop thinking kosovo is independent cuz it isnt and never will be!
pre 11 godina
third of all in case you didnt know the majority of the ethnic cleansing occurred when nato started bombing yugoslavia so nato was at fault there.
(Aleks, 20 July 2012 19:29)
Dear, fault is about causation. You are confusing correlation with causation. That means that because you were having dinner almost every day that the ethnic cleansing was happening in Kosovo, it is your fault for the ethnic cleansing :)
Anyway, your argument has been rejected beyond reasonable doubt by a Court set up by Russia & co. which said that the displacement of Albanians was not because of NATO but because of the actions of the Serbian army.
pre 11 godina
@Mirel from Albania
dont play dumb or be naive you very well know who was part of the kla becasue you alanians continously support these criminals and terrorists which makes you as bad as them ... the albanians terrorists and criminals were the ones that started the trouble by starting to killing serbs, other ethnic minorites and even police officers which prompted and gave full legitimacy for milosevic to react as the president of the country to stabilize the region in any way shape or form .. if you albanains didnt like your lives in kosovo or if you hated milosevic then you could have gone back to albania and lived there but no you stayed in kosovo and tried to steal the serb's land and sacred land at that ... let me be clear to all the albanians that think the fight for kosovo is over, IT ISNT and wont be until the serbs have regained ALL of kosovo .. i can fully gurantee we are waiting for our moment to strike and that it is only a matter of time before we regain kosovo ... if you dont believe me look at serbian history and you will see that the serbs have eventually fought off every invader that has tried to conquer them
the serbs are not the ones preventing peace in the balkans, all they want is the land that rightfully belongs to them .. so Mirel and all albanians that want peace in the balkans this is what you can do: go back to your country of albania and stay there and stop trying to steal other country's lands (serbia's, greece's, macedonia's and montenegro's)
pre 11 godina
Aleks, you're taking things out of context. Chomsky and Mandel are humanitarians strongly critical -- and rightly so -- of cynical governments bent on consolidating power and wealth. I listened to the Mandel lecture you posted and honestly didn't hear anything new. In fact, voices like his can be heard all over the Western media, and I tend to agree with a lot of what they say. But I still disagree with the view -- whether put forward by the likes of Chomsky and Mandel or not -- that the West was out to destroy Yugoslavia back in the 1980s.
It's also a stretch to cite NATO intervention -- and maybe you're not one who does -- as proof of such a plan. I'm not saying that there weren't cynical aspects to Western foreign policy with regard to the Balkans in the 1990s, but come on, you have to look at what the leaders of the ex-YU republics were doing at that time. Do you honestly think that the regimes in Belgrade, Zagreb, Sarajevo and Podgorica were any less corrupt than any other government throughout the world? Just think what somone like Milosevic might have done had he ruled a country with the size and power of the US.
NATO might have been somewhat opportunistic when bombing the Serbs, but they were also trying to stop a conflict that threatened to spiral completely out of control. Many would agrue that the basic objective by 1995 (in the case of BiH and Croatia) was to establish a military balance that could enable lasting peace in the region.
pre 11 godina
@(Crna Ruka, 20 July 2012 21:29)
II don't think you get it, and you are completly wrong. Look at the western countries now. Look at the EU, there are so many different cultures working together, and contrary to what some people say here, it works. It brought peace to this continent, where we were fighting against each other for ao, so long. Cultural diversity is the key word, and it works, and it is great. Now Germany and France are friends, same with Poland and Germany for instance. The united Europe works, and it is the best thing that happened to all of us in, actually history. Yes, there are problems, but they will be solved, because we understand what the united Europe brought to us. The current problems will be a catalyst to get Europe even closer together.
The balkans have to be part of it as well, and a beginning is already made. Once that is accomplished there won't be a problem any longer between the ethnic groups in that part of Europe. I realize that this will take time, and a lot needs to happen till this will be possible. Kosovo is one of the most important ones, and Serbia simply has to realize that peace with Kosovo can only be found in that European context. Kosovo will never be part of Serbia again, and another prerequisite is that for peace is that all countries, especially Serbia has to face its past, come to terms with it, and stop this wrong patriotism, which doesn't get anywhere. Kosovo and Serbia have to join the EU at the same time ....
pre 11 godina
...in addition its a fact that the kla was and continues to be a terrorist group that was composed with mafia members and traffickers, where milosevic as president was perfectly right to intervene in order to eliminate the kla and stabilize the region
(Aleks, 20 July 2012 19:29)...
Question:Who is a KLA member?
Milosevic: Every Albanian from 0 to 102 years old.Yes,they killed women,babies and a 102 years old Albanian man from Prishtina.
But I know ,for Alex everything was made accoring to the law.Even when they strip the authonomy of Kosovo.It was according to the law to put the gun in every albanian member of parliament head to vote pro.It was right,according to Alex.
Unfortunately,a lot of serbs think like Alex and thats why we have this problems in Balkan.
Solution?May be they will change their attitude towards Albanians?Wait and see.I hope so.
pre 11 godina
Why do you think Churchill and his friends pushed to join all those countries together to form yugoslavia after world war 2? It was so that when the time was right for them, they would have an easy way to destabilize the region and weaken all those countries through war, so they would be dependant on the West instead of competition to them. They knew from the start that putting those countries together as one nation would make them an easy target for the West to then divide and conquer. And the idiots in all the countries that were part of yugoslavia, played perfectly into the West's game and destroyed and weakened eachother while the west sat back and laughed.
The West has used this divide and conquer strategy in so many parts of the world and continue to use it to this day, but people are too stupid to notice and so they destroy eachother when the West commands them to.
I wonder how long the countries of that region will be paying off their debt to the west?
pre 11 godina
@A new day
i completely agree that everybody is entitled to their opinion in arguing over events, but the fact remains is there are certain things that are facts & cannot be disputed like the last sentence you wrote .. ask yourself why would milosevic send in the army into kosovo, and the answer is because it was being unstabilized by albanian terrorists and criminals killing serbs and officers .. secondly if milosevic wanted to ethnically cleanse kosovo of albaninas then he would have done that from the beginning, but instead he was only interested in destroying the terrorist organization that was known as the kla ... third of all in case you didnt know the majority of the ethnic cleansing occurred when nato started bombing yugoslavia so nato was at fault there . and fourth if you albanians didnt like it in yugoslavia then why didnt you go back to albania, albanians are the only people currently on earth that i know of that try to steal other people's territories whether its serbia's, macedonia's, montenegro's or greece's . its a fact that the kosovo war is highly controversial because of the illegal bombing of yugoslavia by nato forces and the lies that western countries made up in order to be able to intervene .. in addition its a fact that the kla was and continues to be a terrorist group that was composed with mafia members and traffickers, where milosevic as president was perfectly right to intervene in order to eliminate the kla and stabilize the region
pre 11 godina
Aleks, 20 July 2012 15:44)
One of the big benefits of living in western society (maybe you will learn that if Serbia stays on course) is that people have the ability to have different opinions and can express them without fear.
With the internet you can find people who claim the holocaust was a myth, 911 was orchestrated by Israel, or the US government. They can get on here and tell you that the US is dead and has no influence on the world stage.
But for every one person that makes a statement such as we bombed the wrong people, you will find 100 that disagree.
Whether the US/west wanted to break up Yugoslavia to end socialism does not change the facts of Milosevic's campaign to remove all Albanians from Kosovo by whatever means necessary.
pre 11 godina
Noam Chomsky, Michael Mandel, Edward Said, Michael Parenti and etc are just a few of those scholars that have been critical of western involvement in the breakup of yugoslavia .. below is a link of michael parenti giving a lecture on the war on yugoslavia and how it was an economic war used to break up yugoslavia and turn them into dependent states under capitalism .. its a little long but its definitely informative ... you could look up a lot more info online by just typing nato aggression against yugoslavia/serbia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7BszQCgwLc
this has to do with the kosovo issue but one of the Canadian un peacekeepers who is a general claimed that the west supported the wrong side in the war and supported criminals and terrorists on the albanian side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy1JzwpJ9ec
pre 11 godina
Aleks, who are these tons of Western historians? Give me some sources to research.
pre 11 godina
@ Nenad
theres obviously no reasoning with you about this and the fact is that you are so blind to reality and how the world operates it makes you look naive .. theres tons of WESTERN historians that agree and argue the point that the us and germany were trying to destablize yugoslavia and that is was really an economic war sought to bring about economic changes .. fyi i dont need any media telling me what is true and whats not, i can actually figure it out for myself .. the us and its allies are responsible for a lot of wars occurring and why you may ask its becasue of the military industrial complex that they profit from .. the fact is that whether you agree with it or not nato was the diffrence maker in the war cuz the croats and muslims would never have gotten the serbs to the negotiaing table by themselves period .. like i said before the washington accord was a minor development in the grand scheme of things, the true point of the war was turned when nato intervened simple as that cuz up until that point the serbs had held their ground and that would NEVEER had changed had nato not intervened
pre 11 godina
"actually its a known fact that america along with germany was trying to deliberately destroy yugoslavia by supporting the nazi leaderships in both croatia and bosnia ... its a known fact that the breakup of yugoslavia was not the result of ethnic tensions persay but rather the west wanting to implement capitalism in the last socalist country within eastern europe..."
(Aleks, 20 July 2012 11:34)
Oh, really? And what sources substantiate this? Couldn't possibly be the free Serbian media of the 1990s and 2000s. Actually, have media in Serbia and other Balkan countries ever been free of state control?
Or maybe you're reading websites launched by historians with PhDs from the University of Nevermind, I don't know. Guys like you are always pointing me to links that are complete waste of time.
Anyway, getting back to the Washington Accord, you really don't think it would have helped Muslims and Croats in their fight against Serbs when they were no longer having to fight each other?
And turning to Croatia, the reason the RSK was holding its positions there was because of the UNPAs, not because of any military advantage. While Croatia assembled a stronger army (with the tacit support of retired US and German military experts) during the (mostly) three-year lull in fighting, the RSK stood still, trusting that Sloba would once again come to their defense if fighting were to resume. Guess what?
pre 11 godina
@Nenad
actually its a known fact that america along with germany was trying to deliberately destroy yugoslavia by supporting the nazi leaderships in both croatia and bosnia ... its a known fact that the breakup of yugoslavia was not the result of ethnic tensions persay but rather the west wanting to implement capitalism in the last socalist country within eastern europe... the croats and the muslims were pawns in helping the west achieve their plans .. there is no way in hell there could have been a peaceful solution as the us and germany clearly pressured both bosnia and croatia to declare independence and they knew very well that a war was going to occur so dont be naive in thinking the opposite ... and your claim about a peaceful breakup is ridiculous, do you honestly think that if there was a peaceful breakup there would be any serbs left in bosnia or croatia?? they would have been killed or ethnically cleansed cuz the leaders in both of those countries were nazi sympathizers
pre 11 godina
@Nenad
as for your washington accord it was a minor development cuz it only stopped fighting between the croats and muslims.. the serbs in bosnia still controlled most of their areas and the serbs in croatia had their defences holding ... the war did not fully turn to the other side until nato intervened because the croats wouldnt have been able to launch and initiate storm and flash without nato's assistance and the same thing applies to the muslim side .. the serbs had a larger and stronger force so a larger force needed to enter the war in order to change the outcome .. i mentioned this before and i'll say it again nato only intervened to prevent the serbs from fully winning the war and to force them to the negotiating table, otherwise why would they have come in at that specfic point in time (and dont give me some bs excuse about human rights, which was used as their cover story, the us is the last country that should be talking about protecting human rights) ... so please check your facts and dont be naive in trying to argue
pre 11 godina
Is it just my cynical mind ticking over or is there a pro Albanian/anti Serb reader in control of the recommended/poor comment button?
pre 11 godina
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs?
(Daniel, 19 July 2012 11:47)
Of course Putin would not sit. He will have his spokesperson make a statement LOL
In any case, he does not have to even do that because NATO has no intention of annihilating Serbs because NATO is sent there by 1244 and Serbs are strong supporters of 1244 because it says that Kosovo is Serbia LOL
pre 11 godina
But it is funny even you are talking partition of Kosovo now as 2 years ago no Serb would have ventured there. Progress my friend, progress. Note it was suggested during negotiations by the west totally rejected by any Serb.
(a New Day, 19 July 2012 12:51)
what's new here... it's the same old story. Resolution 1244 was denounced by Serbia as one of the darkest pages in UNSCs history being instrumental to the dismemberment of a European state; but today we're told that 1244 says that Kosovo is Serbia LOL As usual Serbs glorify their defeats or things that they rejected or condemned...
pre 11 godina
"...bosnia and croatia knew they were gonna get into a war with serbia so whose fault is that that they werent prepared?? the minute they declared independence they should have known the war was to begin ... "
(Aleks, 19 July 2012 22:23)
This is a silly assertion, because one could easily level the same accusation against Serbs, many of whom claim that the West was conspiring to destroy Yugoslavia from the beginning. Well, if what these Serbs claim were true, shouldn't Sloba and the JNA have realized that and steered Yugoslavia toward a peaceful breakup, so as not to incur crippling UN sanctions on the one hand, and the wrath of NATO on the other?
Also, you argue that Serbs were winning the wars up until NATO started bombing them in 1995, but you forget the Washington Accord in March 1994. This was the agreement that pushed the Croats and Muslims back into an alliance and, crucially, enabled Muslims to begin taking back lost territory. Meanwhile, the Croatian army was able to focus on beefing up for Flash and Storm in 1995. The Serbs knew by autumn 1994 that the military balance had shifted in favor of the Muslims and Croats, and that it was time to sue for peace and take what they could get. We see evidence of this in the fact that Karadzic passed a settlement proposal to General Rose (UNPROFOR Commander at the time) in which he was willing to accept far less than 50 percent of BiH. So I think you also need to check a few facts before arguing your points.
pre 11 godina
I Quote -
(Zoran, 19 July 2012 16:58)
Comment -
Bog ti Pogomo !.
Arn.Sweden.
pre 11 godina
You're not entitled to speak for all Germans, Willy, since lots of us DON'T agree with tour point of view !!!
Comparing Serbia with Nazi Germany is outright nonsense !!!
Sprechen Sie besser für sich selbst als für Deutschland!
Joachim
pre 11 godina
We voted you in to fix our economy, dont put on a smoking screen by talking about something we cant get back. Focusing on this issue wont bring anything, try to get rid of the corruption and bring back economic growth if you really wanne do something for the Serbian people. And keep the SPS in line, because they were part of the criminal transactions during the DS rule. We have had enough of symbol politics, kick the maffia out of parliament and stop discussing Kosovo number plates, cause thats as far as we can stretch this issue. God bless Serbia!
pre 11 godina
Willi Pfaff, Serbs fought for disputable lands, while Germany fought for the lands for which it had ABSOLUTELY NO rights.
pre 11 godina
Of course that President Nikolic responsible policy towards Kosovo and he is perfectly qualified to do so. Despite some remain Ministry for Kosovo and Metohija, personally I think this is unnecessary and causes costs to Serbia and now does not need.
pre 11 godina
I suppose you are upset the NAZI's lost, right? Well, you've got your second chance now. You just need to defeat Russia and China this time.
(Zoran, 19 July 2012 19:31)
Not at all. I am very in favor of Nazi defeat as was the majority of my nation. The fact that there was a group of people sided with Nazi regime, does not make my Albanian nation Nazi ally. On the other side the fact that prince Pavlje Karadjordjevic was one of the main Nazi ally in Balkans, does not make your Serbian nation a Nazi ally.
I don't have to defeat any China or Russia. The world countries are cooperating with each other. It is only Serbs who think that the World swings around Serbia.
pre 11 godina
@Pyrros
fyi i was born before the war started and i remember everything .. the reason serbia was winning the war was becasue its army was better trained and equipped compared to the muslim and croat armies ... both bosnia and croatia knew they were gonna get into a war with serbia so whose fault is that that they werent prepared?? the minute they declared independence they should have known the war was to begin ... btw serbia didnt suck out any military out of any other republics, in case you didnt know serbia was the dominant yugoslav republic and most of the military industry was located there ... when croatia and bosnia declared independence their soldiers basically left the yugoslavian army and formed their own croat and muslim armies but it was no match for the serb army and it isnt to this day, so check your facts
pre 11 godina
Kosovo is gone, look to the furture, be glad that Nato helped you to get rid of Milosovic, and stop playing these games.
(Willi Pfaff, 19 July 2012 15:07
RE:
Serbia thwarts Giant!
First of all , Serbia did not "lose the war" , Milosevic was smart enough to sign the best agreement possible when Russia fully turned back it's support. The entire army pulled back fully in tact and operational, the combined NATO, Albanian terrorists KLA did not even touch the armor of the Serbian army.
Does it remind you of the Austro-Hungarian empire who invaded Serbia in WWI and General Poitorik promised Emperor Franz Ferdinand that Serbia would be erased from the map. General Poitorek was repelled three times by the Serbian peasant army; back against the Drina, back to Viennna with his ass behind his tail. Little Serbia , barealy a population of 3 Mil, a beat up army at best of 350,000 just fresh off the Balkan wars facing a fresh Austro-Hungarian army amassed close to a 1,000,000.
There was no Russians or anybody else helping Serbia other than moral support from France; Le Journee Serb............
Kosovo-Metohia population when liberated in 1912 compromised almost 50/50 between Serbians and Albanians. Today it is 97% to 3% Albanians to Serbians, just how is cleansing who?
Kosovo-Metohija is the birthplace of the Serbian nation, very much like Berlin is to Germany although not quite the same.
pre 11 godina
"serbia on the other hand has a richer history and was winning the war in the 90s up until nato intervned and decided to bomb them in 95 and 99, do you think the croats, mulims and albanians would have even had a chance against the serbian military if it werent for nato?"
of course serbia was winning .....bcs serbia sucked all the military out of all republics before it started its war on the civilians of Yugoslavia don't you remember that or were you even born then ....???
pre 11 godina
Mark- as if we care. The less we have to do with you lot the better. Just go back to Albania where you came from and all will be fine.
(Helsingborg., 19 July 2012 17:38)
Deal.But when we leave for Albania you guys got to leave for the mountains of Iran and Afghanistan where you guys came from,and all will be fine.
pre 11 godina
@belgius
i can tell you a couple of wars that the serbs won, the first and second balkan wars, ww1, ww2 ... the albanians winning a war?? that has gotta be the biggest joke in history, the albanians didnt have a state until 1912 and wouldnt even have a country if it werent for the great powers pressuring serbia and greece to pull their forces out after the second balkan war .. albania has never been able to do anything on its own .. serbia on the other hand has a richer history and was winning the war in the 90s up until nato intervned and decided to bomb them in 95 and 99, do you think the croats, mulims and albanians would have even had a chance against the serbian military if it werent for nato?? serbia has got the strongest army in the balkans and once nato leaves the serbs will regain kosovo and annex republika srpska, its just a matter of time ... and if you dont beleive just take a look at history which repeats itself, the serbs have always managed to fight out invaders out of their homeland
pre 11 godina
"ecomen: Ben, please cut the breast beating - Albanians have not been able to defend anything, ever."
ecomen, if you look the ancient and the modern history you will see that Albanians have faught and won many wars and they didn't had "MOTHER RUSSIA" behind them to give them modern weapons.
But can you please tell me "ONE WAR" that Serbia has won in the last 500 years?
I need an answer ;)
pre 11 godina
(Willi Pfaff, 19 July 2012 15:07)
Do you have a backbone? Or has reeducation worked that well with you?
You are not Germany's spokesperson! Do you know no shame?
Throwing a whole nation into the mud only because you are a guilt driven person? Who shall respect you? Neither Serbs nor Albanians will.
pre 11 godina
You did not defeat any Nazi. Allied forces mostly UK, US and USSR have defeated Nazis. The moment when Nazis were withdrawing to go and defend their mainland, partisans dropped from mountains. Spare me those idiotic communist lectures.
(Simpatiku, 19 July 2012 18:49)
--
LOL! We didn't defeat the NAZIs single handedly but we are always on the winning side. In fact, the Chetniks were one of the very first resistence forces against the NAZIs and that's one of the reason Germans hate us so much, right Willi?
I suppose you are upset the NAZI's lost, right? Well, you've got your second chance now. You just need to defeat Russia and China this time.
pre 11 godina
We defeated the NAZIs and we will wait patiently to defeat the NATO death machine. We see the current situation as a temporary occupation. So, as we saw NAZI Europe going down the drain, so we will see the NATO EU go down the drain.
(Zoran, 19 July 2012 16:58)
As for Nikolic he knows he dares not violate the terms of capitulations. Otherwise there will be no Serbia on the map.
You did not defeat any Nazi. Allied forces mostly UK, US and USSR have defeated Nazis. The moment when Nazis were withdrawing to go and defend their mainland, partisans dropped from mountains. Spare me those idiotic communist lectures.
pre 11 godina
“For example, it has been kept secret that the name of Kosovo can be followed just by an asterisk at regional meetings, without the footnote
Thanx for telling the truth, but I wonder how previous government feels with singing that footnote during past regional meetings? They really made a fool of themselves, when even Cooper said that; an agreement was not being honored by Serbs. The rest of the story on this article is history written on ice, and once the sun hits it, it will melt.
pre 11 godina
That sounds not good. A man who even couldn't take responsibility for having been the lackey of Seselj's politics for years, will take over the responsibility of a political decision-making of a problem for which until now there is not presented a satisfying idea of a resolution by any living political expert in this world. It resembles a hippo who decided to prey like a cheetah forgetting he doesn't have the skills for it.
pre 11 godina
Mark- as if we care. The less we have to do with you lot the better. Just go back to Albania where you came from and all will be fine.
pre 11 godina
Willi, what an idiotic comparison you made. How about if the allies took Berlin away from the Germans after WWII, how would that sit with real Germans? - which I do not believe you are. Kosovo is Serbia's ancient and sacred land. It is not some territory on the outskirts of Serbia, if anything, Kosovo is more Serbian than Belgrade.
pre 11 godina
Willi, you got it wrong again and you seem evermore frustrated. You should be comparing the NAZIs to NATO. We were bombed and occupied by the NAZIs and they gave Serbian land away to their partners in crime (genocide) - the Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. Now NATO is doing the same thing, which is not surprising considering that practically all former NAZI partners are integrated into NATO.
We defeated the NAZIs and we will wait patiently to defeat the NATO death machine. We see the current situation as a temporary occupation. So, as we saw NAZI Europe going down the drain, so we will see the NATO EU go down the drain.
pre 11 godina
Nikolić underlined that the self-proclaimed state of Kosovo would not be allowed to become a UN member, and announced he would propose solutions for Kosovo which had already been implemented, such as the status of Germans in Belgium or the example of South Tyrol.
Try those implemented solutions for the Albanians in Presevo and all the other minorities in Serbia.As for Kosovo keep lying to your people.Even without a UN seat we still are much better that we have ever been and we will never be under Serbia again.
pre 11 godina
"""He noted that the modern world should not idly watch the violence against Serbs in the north. ""
Oh how easy these Serbians forget the same cry from the Albanians not long ago or the 78 days of bombing to understand their own faults ....as today they still don't see them
pre 11 godina
Comment -
Do you think The Albanians in Kosovo would be alone ?.
Albania will join in as well as Hungary from the other side.
===================================
Is this official or are you daydreaming again?
pre 11 godina
this whole bs about sacret land, and we have been there once is just ridicules. You lost a war, just like Germany lost a war, and me as a german also says, thank god Germany lost that awful war. There were parts of Germany in Poland, in East Prussia, along the French border, where Germans also lived for hundreds of years, which were taken away after that awful war. Nobody here would come up with this crazy bs, that it is old german land, and threfore has to be returned. Germany lost the war, and with it this land. So what, nobody sheds a tear about it, and people realize that it was good that we were freed from the Nazi's. Serbia should learn that they should be happy that the Milosovic years are over, that it has a chance to become a free country, but instead it goes on clinging to this weird mixture of false patriatism mixed with religious bs that gets it nowhere. Kosovo is gone, look to the furture, be glad that Nato helped you to get rid of Milosovic, and stop playing these games.
pre 11 godina
Pfaff - stop trying to relativise repugnant German history with Serbia's. I am beginning to wonder if you and your Croatian friends are really in love with us. I am afraid it will go unreturned.
pre 11 godina
Nikolic is saying the same stuff we've heard for years. Really difficult to imagine him adding any value to Serbian politics, but in my view, that was always a foregone conclusion. He'll be thrown on the scrap heap in a few years along with Vucic and Dacic, and then Jeremic or someone will get a shot. Round and round we go.
pre 11 godina
...Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs?...
Yes,Putin is sitting and watching on TV, now when his strong ally Assad is getting kicked and seeon russians will get kicked out of the only base they have in Mediterranien Sea after they were kicked out 50 years ago from Enver Hoxha from Vlora military base.
It was Putin that was sitting and watching TV when his body Gaddaf was humiliated.
Also, was Putin who put his tail between his legs and qiuetly left Bosnia and Kosovo.
Dreaming that Putin will attach NATO over some serbs in North is just a gream of serb nationalists.
Keep dreaming!
pre 11 godina
You are a Looser in this game and will loose the whole of Kosovo !.
I Quote -
Asked what he would do as the commander in chief of the Serbian armed forces if Kosovo PM Hashim Thaci attacked northern Kosovo, Nikolić responded with a question: "If someone attacked northern Kosovo using force, would they not consider that Serbia could use force to win Kosovo back? Who decides when force is justified and when it is not."
Comment -
Do you think The Albanians in Kosovo would be alone ?.
Albania will join in as well as Hungary from the other side.
But this You have -
" You will never be President in Pristina ".
Arn.Sweden.
pre 11 godina
i'm trying to figure out what nikolic has actually said. essentially he is claiming the previous Serbian gov. lied about the nature of the agreements they signed with Kosovar officials. the rest is just politician's talk, basically piffle. ready to take responsibility? what does that even mean? when you're president of a country, the direction that country takes (depending on the constitution of that country) is dependent on you, so it doesn't matter if you're ready or not, the buck stops with you. a lot of politicians these days, talk without actually saying anything.
pre 11 godina
dream on, you will never win, and your true face comes out now ....
pre 11 godina
Well, unfortunately it is NATO and more specifically the USA, which have not been open to Serbia's side of the proper use of force.
(kujon, 19 July 2012 11:15)
the baby-sitter all your life????
have some dignity and stop saying those rubbish things...
it is ALBANIANS that will defend Kosova and only ALBANIANS as in many years before NATO even existed...
pre 11 godina
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs? Funny, how you focus only on this one little piece of the article instead of how practical Nikolic is. The fact is, business won't be as usual from this point on. There will be some kind of partition or Kosovo will be in a weird limbo status for ever, just like Cyprus.
(Daniel, 19 July 2012 11:47)
If there was another conflict between NATO and Serbia, Putin's Russia wouldn't be able to do a thing about it. Russia is a dying power with a declining population, but Putin is desperatley trying to make Moscow the Superpower it once was back in the 1980s. Russia will only be an economic power.
However I do agree with you that there will be a partition in Kosovo with the North being apart of Serbia. It is the only sensible option, nobody wins but everyone gains stability.
pre 11 godina
The best thing about partition is we wont have to live with the Albanians. It is not a racist comment, just from all our previous experiences. I have many very nice Albanian friends, but on the whole I would rather we dont have to live with them. No doubt they feel the same way, so lets divorce and split the proceeds.
pre 11 godina
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs? Funny, how you focus only on this one little piece of the article instead of how practical Nikolic is. The fact is, business won't be as usual from this point on. There will be some kind of partition or Kosovo will be in a weird limbo status for ever, just like Cyprus.
(Daniel, 19 July 2012 11:47)
You and others who like to use nationalistic rhetoric similar to Nikolic know your words are empty. Of course there is a difference in what your lot likes to call violence and attack. Trying to place the guards at the checkpoints was not a violent or attack. It did not become violent until Serbs attempted to block it. But Thaci does not have the power to "attack" the north and Nikolic knows it so it is a safe scenario to play out as he knows he will never have to live up to his words. But NATO does have the mandate to protect Kosovo from any type of invasion of Serb forces for any reason. Any action by Russia to counter that would be an illegal act in violation of their own resolution. But it will not come to that as Serb forces are never going to cross the border as that would end EU hopes.
But it is funny even you are talking partition of Kosovo now as 2 years ago no Serb would have ventured there. Progress my friend, progress. Note it was suggested during negotiations by the west totally rejected by any Serb.
pre 11 godina
Ben, please cut the breast beating - Albanians have not been able to defend anything, ever, on their own. They either sucked up to the Turks, or WWII Nazis, and now they are under the care of the US/EU. Albanians never had a pot to pee in, and still don't, so how exactly did, and will they defend Kosovo? Besides, Ben, Kosovo is Serbian land, and when you occupy something by over populating that land, it is not yours to defend. So chill out, Benny, no one is afraid of you.
pre 11 godina
"If someone attacked northern Kosovo using force, would they not consider that Serbia could use force to win Kosovo back? Who decides when force is justified and when it is not."
Well, unfortunately it is NATO and more specifically the USA, which have not been open to Serbia's side of the proper use of force.
pre 11 godina
Well, unfortunately it is NATO and more specifically the USA, which have not been open to Serbia's side of the proper use of force.
(kujon, 19 July 2012 11:15)
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs? Funny, how you focus only on this one little piece of the article instead of how practical Nikolic is. The fact is, business won't be as usual from this point on. There will be some kind of partition or Kosovo will be in a weird limbo status for ever, just like Cyprus.
pre 11 godina
this whole bs about sacret land, and we have been there once is just ridicules. You lost a war, just like Germany lost a war, and me as a german also says, thank god Germany lost that awful war. There were parts of Germany in Poland, in East Prussia, along the French border, where Germans also lived for hundreds of years, which were taken away after that awful war. Nobody here would come up with this crazy bs, that it is old german land, and threfore has to be returned. Germany lost the war, and with it this land. So what, nobody sheds a tear about it, and people realize that it was good that we were freed from the Nazi's. Serbia should learn that they should be happy that the Milosovic years are over, that it has a chance to become a free country, but instead it goes on clinging to this weird mixture of false patriatism mixed with religious bs that gets it nowhere. Kosovo is gone, look to the furture, be glad that Nato helped you to get rid of Milosovic, and stop playing these games.
pre 11 godina
Ben, please cut the breast beating - Albanians have not been able to defend anything, ever, on their own. They either sucked up to the Turks, or WWII Nazis, and now they are under the care of the US/EU. Albanians never had a pot to pee in, and still don't, so how exactly did, and will they defend Kosovo? Besides, Ben, Kosovo is Serbian land, and when you occupy something by over populating that land, it is not yours to defend. So chill out, Benny, no one is afraid of you.
pre 11 godina
Well, unfortunately it is NATO and more specifically the USA, which have not been open to Serbia's side of the proper use of force.
(kujon, 19 July 2012 11:15)
the baby-sitter all your life????
have some dignity and stop saying those rubbish things...
it is ALBANIANS that will defend Kosova and only ALBANIANS as in many years before NATO even existed...
pre 11 godina
...Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs?...
Yes,Putin is sitting and watching on TV, now when his strong ally Assad is getting kicked and seeon russians will get kicked out of the only base they have in Mediterranien Sea after they were kicked out 50 years ago from Enver Hoxha from Vlora military base.
It was Putin that was sitting and watching TV when his body Gaddaf was humiliated.
Also, was Putin who put his tail between his legs and qiuetly left Bosnia and Kosovo.
Dreaming that Putin will attach NATO over some serbs in North is just a gream of serb nationalists.
Keep dreaming!
pre 11 godina
The best thing about partition is we wont have to live with the Albanians. It is not a racist comment, just from all our previous experiences. I have many very nice Albanian friends, but on the whole I would rather we dont have to live with them. No doubt they feel the same way, so lets divorce and split the proceeds.
pre 11 godina
Well, unfortunately it is NATO and more specifically the USA, which have not been open to Serbia's side of the proper use of force.
(kujon, 19 July 2012 11:15)
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs? Funny, how you focus only on this one little piece of the article instead of how practical Nikolic is. The fact is, business won't be as usual from this point on. There will be some kind of partition or Kosovo will be in a weird limbo status for ever, just like Cyprus.
pre 11 godina
dream on, you will never win, and your true face comes out now ....
pre 11 godina
Nikolić underlined that the self-proclaimed state of Kosovo would not be allowed to become a UN member, and announced he would propose solutions for Kosovo which had already been implemented, such as the status of Germans in Belgium or the example of South Tyrol.
Try those implemented solutions for the Albanians in Presevo and all the other minorities in Serbia.As for Kosovo keep lying to your people.Even without a UN seat we still are much better that we have ever been and we will never be under Serbia again.
pre 11 godina
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs? Funny, how you focus only on this one little piece of the article instead of how practical Nikolic is. The fact is, business won't be as usual from this point on. There will be some kind of partition or Kosovo will be in a weird limbo status for ever, just like Cyprus.
(Daniel, 19 July 2012 11:47)
You and others who like to use nationalistic rhetoric similar to Nikolic know your words are empty. Of course there is a difference in what your lot likes to call violence and attack. Trying to place the guards at the checkpoints was not a violent or attack. It did not become violent until Serbs attempted to block it. But Thaci does not have the power to "attack" the north and Nikolic knows it so it is a safe scenario to play out as he knows he will never have to live up to his words. But NATO does have the mandate to protect Kosovo from any type of invasion of Serb forces for any reason. Any action by Russia to counter that would be an illegal act in violation of their own resolution. But it will not come to that as Serb forces are never going to cross the border as that would end EU hopes.
But it is funny even you are talking partition of Kosovo now as 2 years ago no Serb would have ventured there. Progress my friend, progress. Note it was suggested during negotiations by the west totally rejected by any Serb.
pre 11 godina
We defeated the NAZIs and we will wait patiently to defeat the NATO death machine. We see the current situation as a temporary occupation. So, as we saw NAZI Europe going down the drain, so we will see the NATO EU go down the drain.
(Zoran, 19 July 2012 16:58)
As for Nikolic he knows he dares not violate the terms of capitulations. Otherwise there will be no Serbia on the map.
You did not defeat any Nazi. Allied forces mostly UK, US and USSR have defeated Nazis. The moment when Nazis were withdrawing to go and defend their mainland, partisans dropped from mountains. Spare me those idiotic communist lectures.
pre 11 godina
"If someone attacked northern Kosovo using force, would they not consider that Serbia could use force to win Kosovo back? Who decides when force is justified and when it is not."
Well, unfortunately it is NATO and more specifically the USA, which have not been open to Serbia's side of the proper use of force.
pre 11 godina
You are a Looser in this game and will loose the whole of Kosovo !.
I Quote -
Asked what he would do as the commander in chief of the Serbian armed forces if Kosovo PM Hashim Thaci attacked northern Kosovo, Nikolić responded with a question: "If someone attacked northern Kosovo using force, would they not consider that Serbia could use force to win Kosovo back? Who decides when force is justified and when it is not."
Comment -
Do you think The Albanians in Kosovo would be alone ?.
Albania will join in as well as Hungary from the other side.
But this You have -
" You will never be President in Pristina ".
Arn.Sweden.
pre 11 godina
i'm trying to figure out what nikolic has actually said. essentially he is claiming the previous Serbian gov. lied about the nature of the agreements they signed with Kosovar officials. the rest is just politician's talk, basically piffle. ready to take responsibility? what does that even mean? when you're president of a country, the direction that country takes (depending on the constitution of that country) is dependent on you, so it doesn't matter if you're ready or not, the buck stops with you. a lot of politicians these days, talk without actually saying anything.
pre 11 godina
"ecomen: Ben, please cut the breast beating - Albanians have not been able to defend anything, ever."
ecomen, if you look the ancient and the modern history you will see that Albanians have faught and won many wars and they didn't had "MOTHER RUSSIA" behind them to give them modern weapons.
But can you please tell me "ONE WAR" that Serbia has won in the last 500 years?
I need an answer ;)
pre 11 godina
Kosovo is gone, look to the furture, be glad that Nato helped you to get rid of Milosovic, and stop playing these games.
(Willi Pfaff, 19 July 2012 15:07
RE:
Serbia thwarts Giant!
First of all , Serbia did not "lose the war" , Milosevic was smart enough to sign the best agreement possible when Russia fully turned back it's support. The entire army pulled back fully in tact and operational, the combined NATO, Albanian terrorists KLA did not even touch the armor of the Serbian army.
Does it remind you of the Austro-Hungarian empire who invaded Serbia in WWI and General Poitorik promised Emperor Franz Ferdinand that Serbia would be erased from the map. General Poitorek was repelled three times by the Serbian peasant army; back against the Drina, back to Viennna with his ass behind his tail. Little Serbia , barealy a population of 3 Mil, a beat up army at best of 350,000 just fresh off the Balkan wars facing a fresh Austro-Hungarian army amassed close to a 1,000,000.
There was no Russians or anybody else helping Serbia other than moral support from France; Le Journee Serb............
Kosovo-Metohia population when liberated in 1912 compromised almost 50/50 between Serbians and Albanians. Today it is 97% to 3% Albanians to Serbians, just how is cleansing who?
Kosovo-Metohija is the birthplace of the Serbian nation, very much like Berlin is to Germany although not quite the same.
pre 11 godina
@belgius
i can tell you a couple of wars that the serbs won, the first and second balkan wars, ww1, ww2 ... the albanians winning a war?? that has gotta be the biggest joke in history, the albanians didnt have a state until 1912 and wouldnt even have a country if it werent for the great powers pressuring serbia and greece to pull their forces out after the second balkan war .. albania has never been able to do anything on its own .. serbia on the other hand has a richer history and was winning the war in the 90s up until nato intervned and decided to bomb them in 95 and 99, do you think the croats, mulims and albanians would have even had a chance against the serbian military if it werent for nato?? serbia has got the strongest army in the balkans and once nato leaves the serbs will regain kosovo and annex republika srpska, its just a matter of time ... and if you dont beleive just take a look at history which repeats itself, the serbs have always managed to fight out invaders out of their homeland
pre 11 godina
Mark- as if we care. The less we have to do with you lot the better. Just go back to Albania where you came from and all will be fine.
(Helsingborg., 19 July 2012 17:38)
Deal.But when we leave for Albania you guys got to leave for the mountains of Iran and Afghanistan where you guys came from,and all will be fine.
pre 11 godina
Willi, you got it wrong again and you seem evermore frustrated. You should be comparing the NAZIs to NATO. We were bombed and occupied by the NAZIs and they gave Serbian land away to their partners in crime (genocide) - the Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. Now NATO is doing the same thing, which is not surprising considering that practically all former NAZI partners are integrated into NATO.
We defeated the NAZIs and we will wait patiently to defeat the NATO death machine. We see the current situation as a temporary occupation. So, as we saw NAZI Europe going down the drain, so we will see the NATO EU go down the drain.
pre 11 godina
Comment -
Do you think The Albanians in Kosovo would be alone ?.
Albania will join in as well as Hungary from the other side.
===================================
Is this official or are you daydreaming again?
pre 11 godina
Willi, what an idiotic comparison you made. How about if the allies took Berlin away from the Germans after WWII, how would that sit with real Germans? - which I do not believe you are. Kosovo is Serbia's ancient and sacred land. It is not some territory on the outskirts of Serbia, if anything, Kosovo is more Serbian than Belgrade.
pre 11 godina
“For example, it has been kept secret that the name of Kosovo can be followed just by an asterisk at regional meetings, without the footnote
Thanx for telling the truth, but I wonder how previous government feels with singing that footnote during past regional meetings? They really made a fool of themselves, when even Cooper said that; an agreement was not being honored by Serbs. The rest of the story on this article is history written on ice, and once the sun hits it, it will melt.
pre 11 godina
I suppose you are upset the NAZI's lost, right? Well, you've got your second chance now. You just need to defeat Russia and China this time.
(Zoran, 19 July 2012 19:31)
Not at all. I am very in favor of Nazi defeat as was the majority of my nation. The fact that there was a group of people sided with Nazi regime, does not make my Albanian nation Nazi ally. On the other side the fact that prince Pavlje Karadjordjevic was one of the main Nazi ally in Balkans, does not make your Serbian nation a Nazi ally.
I don't have to defeat any China or Russia. The world countries are cooperating with each other. It is only Serbs who think that the World swings around Serbia.
pre 11 godina
Pfaff - stop trying to relativise repugnant German history with Serbia's. I am beginning to wonder if you and your Croatian friends are really in love with us. I am afraid it will go unreturned.
pre 11 godina
Mark- as if we care. The less we have to do with you lot the better. Just go back to Albania where you came from and all will be fine.
pre 11 godina
Nikolic is saying the same stuff we've heard for years. Really difficult to imagine him adding any value to Serbian politics, but in my view, that was always a foregone conclusion. He'll be thrown on the scrap heap in a few years along with Vucic and Dacic, and then Jeremic or someone will get a shot. Round and round we go.
pre 11 godina
"""He noted that the modern world should not idly watch the violence against Serbs in the north. ""
Oh how easy these Serbians forget the same cry from the Albanians not long ago or the 78 days of bombing to understand their own faults ....as today they still don't see them
pre 11 godina
That sounds not good. A man who even couldn't take responsibility for having been the lackey of Seselj's politics for years, will take over the responsibility of a political decision-making of a problem for which until now there is not presented a satisfying idea of a resolution by any living political expert in this world. It resembles a hippo who decided to prey like a cheetah forgetting he doesn't have the skills for it.
pre 11 godina
(Willi Pfaff, 19 July 2012 15:07)
Do you have a backbone? Or has reeducation worked that well with you?
You are not Germany's spokesperson! Do you know no shame?
Throwing a whole nation into the mud only because you are a guilt driven person? Who shall respect you? Neither Serbs nor Albanians will.
pre 11 godina
You did not defeat any Nazi. Allied forces mostly UK, US and USSR have defeated Nazis. The moment when Nazis were withdrawing to go and defend their mainland, partisans dropped from mountains. Spare me those idiotic communist lectures.
(Simpatiku, 19 July 2012 18:49)
--
LOL! We didn't defeat the NAZIs single handedly but we are always on the winning side. In fact, the Chetniks were one of the very first resistence forces against the NAZIs and that's one of the reason Germans hate us so much, right Willi?
I suppose you are upset the NAZI's lost, right? Well, you've got your second chance now. You just need to defeat Russia and China this time.
pre 11 godina
Willi Pfaff, Serbs fought for disputable lands, while Germany fought for the lands for which it had ABSOLUTELY NO rights.
pre 11 godina
@Pyrros
fyi i was born before the war started and i remember everything .. the reason serbia was winning the war was becasue its army was better trained and equipped compared to the muslim and croat armies ... both bosnia and croatia knew they were gonna get into a war with serbia so whose fault is that that they werent prepared?? the minute they declared independence they should have known the war was to begin ... btw serbia didnt suck out any military out of any other republics, in case you didnt know serbia was the dominant yugoslav republic and most of the military industry was located there ... when croatia and bosnia declared independence their soldiers basically left the yugoslavian army and formed their own croat and muslim armies but it was no match for the serb army and it isnt to this day, so check your facts
pre 11 godina
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs? Funny, how you focus only on this one little piece of the article instead of how practical Nikolic is. The fact is, business won't be as usual from this point on. There will be some kind of partition or Kosovo will be in a weird limbo status for ever, just like Cyprus.
(Daniel, 19 July 2012 11:47)
If there was another conflict between NATO and Serbia, Putin's Russia wouldn't be able to do a thing about it. Russia is a dying power with a declining population, but Putin is desperatley trying to make Moscow the Superpower it once was back in the 1980s. Russia will only be an economic power.
However I do agree with you that there will be a partition in Kosovo with the North being apart of Serbia. It is the only sensible option, nobody wins but everyone gains stability.
pre 11 godina
"serbia on the other hand has a richer history and was winning the war in the 90s up until nato intervned and decided to bomb them in 95 and 99, do you think the croats, mulims and albanians would have even had a chance against the serbian military if it werent for nato?"
of course serbia was winning .....bcs serbia sucked all the military out of all republics before it started its war on the civilians of Yugoslavia don't you remember that or were you even born then ....???
pre 11 godina
You're not entitled to speak for all Germans, Willy, since lots of us DON'T agree with tour point of view !!!
Comparing Serbia with Nazi Germany is outright nonsense !!!
Sprechen Sie besser für sich selbst als für Deutschland!
Joachim
pre 11 godina
We voted you in to fix our economy, dont put on a smoking screen by talking about something we cant get back. Focusing on this issue wont bring anything, try to get rid of the corruption and bring back economic growth if you really wanne do something for the Serbian people. And keep the SPS in line, because they were part of the criminal transactions during the DS rule. We have had enough of symbol politics, kick the maffia out of parliament and stop discussing Kosovo number plates, cause thats as far as we can stretch this issue. God bless Serbia!
pre 11 godina
But it is funny even you are talking partition of Kosovo now as 2 years ago no Serb would have ventured there. Progress my friend, progress. Note it was suggested during negotiations by the west totally rejected by any Serb.
(a New Day, 19 July 2012 12:51)
what's new here... it's the same old story. Resolution 1244 was denounced by Serbia as one of the darkest pages in UNSCs history being instrumental to the dismemberment of a European state; but today we're told that 1244 says that Kosovo is Serbia LOL As usual Serbs glorify their defeats or things that they rejected or condemned...
pre 11 godina
"...bosnia and croatia knew they were gonna get into a war with serbia so whose fault is that that they werent prepared?? the minute they declared independence they should have known the war was to begin ... "
(Aleks, 19 July 2012 22:23)
This is a silly assertion, because one could easily level the same accusation against Serbs, many of whom claim that the West was conspiring to destroy Yugoslavia from the beginning. Well, if what these Serbs claim were true, shouldn't Sloba and the JNA have realized that and steered Yugoslavia toward a peaceful breakup, so as not to incur crippling UN sanctions on the one hand, and the wrath of NATO on the other?
Also, you argue that Serbs were winning the wars up until NATO started bombing them in 1995, but you forget the Washington Accord in March 1994. This was the agreement that pushed the Croats and Muslims back into an alliance and, crucially, enabled Muslims to begin taking back lost territory. Meanwhile, the Croatian army was able to focus on beefing up for Flash and Storm in 1995. The Serbs knew by autumn 1994 that the military balance had shifted in favor of the Muslims and Croats, and that it was time to sue for peace and take what they could get. We see evidence of this in the fact that Karadzic passed a settlement proposal to General Rose (UNPROFOR Commander at the time) in which he was willing to accept far less than 50 percent of BiH. So I think you also need to check a few facts before arguing your points.
pre 11 godina
@ Nenad
theres obviously no reasoning with you about this and the fact is that you are so blind to reality and how the world operates it makes you look naive .. theres tons of WESTERN historians that agree and argue the point that the us and germany were trying to destablize yugoslavia and that is was really an economic war sought to bring about economic changes .. fyi i dont need any media telling me what is true and whats not, i can actually figure it out for myself .. the us and its allies are responsible for a lot of wars occurring and why you may ask its becasue of the military industrial complex that they profit from .. the fact is that whether you agree with it or not nato was the diffrence maker in the war cuz the croats and muslims would never have gotten the serbs to the negotiaing table by themselves period .. like i said before the washington accord was a minor development in the grand scheme of things, the true point of the war was turned when nato intervened simple as that cuz up until that point the serbs had held their ground and that would NEVEER had changed had nato not intervened
pre 11 godina
Aleks, 20 July 2012 15:44)
One of the big benefits of living in western society (maybe you will learn that if Serbia stays on course) is that people have the ability to have different opinions and can express them without fear.
With the internet you can find people who claim the holocaust was a myth, 911 was orchestrated by Israel, or the US government. They can get on here and tell you that the US is dead and has no influence on the world stage.
But for every one person that makes a statement such as we bombed the wrong people, you will find 100 that disagree.
Whether the US/west wanted to break up Yugoslavia to end socialism does not change the facts of Milosevic's campaign to remove all Albanians from Kosovo by whatever means necessary.
pre 11 godina
@(Crna Ruka, 20 July 2012 21:29)
II don't think you get it, and you are completly wrong. Look at the western countries now. Look at the EU, there are so many different cultures working together, and contrary to what some people say here, it works. It brought peace to this continent, where we were fighting against each other for ao, so long. Cultural diversity is the key word, and it works, and it is great. Now Germany and France are friends, same with Poland and Germany for instance. The united Europe works, and it is the best thing that happened to all of us in, actually history. Yes, there are problems, but they will be solved, because we understand what the united Europe brought to us. The current problems will be a catalyst to get Europe even closer together.
The balkans have to be part of it as well, and a beginning is already made. Once that is accomplished there won't be a problem any longer between the ethnic groups in that part of Europe. I realize that this will take time, and a lot needs to happen till this will be possible. Kosovo is one of the most important ones, and Serbia simply has to realize that peace with Kosovo can only be found in that European context. Kosovo will never be part of Serbia again, and another prerequisite is that for peace is that all countries, especially Serbia has to face its past, come to terms with it, and stop this wrong patriotism, which doesn't get anywhere. Kosovo and Serbia have to join the EU at the same time ....
pre 11 godina
@Mirel from Albania
ask yourself why kosovo's autonomy was stripped in the first place, it was because you albaninas were abusing it, behaving like criminals and hooligans killing serbs, other ethnic minorities and officers even before the war started . and the fact is that you know who was part of the terrorist kla so dont play games with me, the fact that some of you albanians support them makes you no better than the criminals and terrorists that were in the kla
and there is no peace in the balkans becasue albanians keep trying to steal not only seria's land but macedonia's, greece's & montenegro's . you dont see serbs going into albania and trying to take a piece of it becasue it is albanian, just like albanians shouldn't be taking kosovo from serbs becasue its serbian .. if you didnt like milosevic or your life there then why didnt you people go back to albania
just wait the fight for kosovo will NEVER be over until serbs have regained control over ALL of kosovo . there will be another war coming mark my words .. the serbs are just waiting for the opportune moment to strike .. throughout serb history many groups have tried to conquer us and take our lands but we eventually defeated them and drove them out .. albanians will suffer the same fate as the ottomans, hapsburgs, and nazis/fascists
if you want peace then stop supporting criminals/terrorists, stop terrorizing serbs and other minorities and stop thinking kosovo is independent cuz it isnt and never will be!
pre 11 godina
Of course that President Nikolic responsible policy towards Kosovo and he is perfectly qualified to do so. Despite some remain Ministry for Kosovo and Metohija, personally I think this is unnecessary and causes costs to Serbia and now does not need.
pre 11 godina
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs?
(Daniel, 19 July 2012 11:47)
Of course Putin would not sit. He will have his spokesperson make a statement LOL
In any case, he does not have to even do that because NATO has no intention of annihilating Serbs because NATO is sent there by 1244 and Serbs are strong supporters of 1244 because it says that Kosovo is Serbia LOL
pre 11 godina
Is it just my cynical mind ticking over or is there a pro Albanian/anti Serb reader in control of the recommended/poor comment button?
pre 11 godina
@Nenad
as for your washington accord it was a minor development cuz it only stopped fighting between the croats and muslims.. the serbs in bosnia still controlled most of their areas and the serbs in croatia had their defences holding ... the war did not fully turn to the other side until nato intervened because the croats wouldnt have been able to launch and initiate storm and flash without nato's assistance and the same thing applies to the muslim side .. the serbs had a larger and stronger force so a larger force needed to enter the war in order to change the outcome .. i mentioned this before and i'll say it again nato only intervened to prevent the serbs from fully winning the war and to force them to the negotiating table, otherwise why would they have come in at that specfic point in time (and dont give me some bs excuse about human rights, which was used as their cover story, the us is the last country that should be talking about protecting human rights) ... so please check your facts and dont be naive in trying to argue
pre 11 godina
"actually its a known fact that america along with germany was trying to deliberately destroy yugoslavia by supporting the nazi leaderships in both croatia and bosnia ... its a known fact that the breakup of yugoslavia was not the result of ethnic tensions persay but rather the west wanting to implement capitalism in the last socalist country within eastern europe..."
(Aleks, 20 July 2012 11:34)
Oh, really? And what sources substantiate this? Couldn't possibly be the free Serbian media of the 1990s and 2000s. Actually, have media in Serbia and other Balkan countries ever been free of state control?
Or maybe you're reading websites launched by historians with PhDs from the University of Nevermind, I don't know. Guys like you are always pointing me to links that are complete waste of time.
Anyway, getting back to the Washington Accord, you really don't think it would have helped Muslims and Croats in their fight against Serbs when they were no longer having to fight each other?
And turning to Croatia, the reason the RSK was holding its positions there was because of the UNPAs, not because of any military advantage. While Croatia assembled a stronger army (with the tacit support of retired US and German military experts) during the (mostly) three-year lull in fighting, the RSK stood still, trusting that Sloba would once again come to their defense if fighting were to resume. Guess what?
pre 11 godina
Noam Chomsky, Michael Mandel, Edward Said, Michael Parenti and etc are just a few of those scholars that have been critical of western involvement in the breakup of yugoslavia .. below is a link of michael parenti giving a lecture on the war on yugoslavia and how it was an economic war used to break up yugoslavia and turn them into dependent states under capitalism .. its a little long but its definitely informative ... you could look up a lot more info online by just typing nato aggression against yugoslavia/serbia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7BszQCgwLc
this has to do with the kosovo issue but one of the Canadian un peacekeepers who is a general claimed that the west supported the wrong side in the war and supported criminals and terrorists on the albanian side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy1JzwpJ9ec
pre 11 godina
@A new day
i completely agree that everybody is entitled to their opinion in arguing over events, but the fact remains is there are certain things that are facts & cannot be disputed like the last sentence you wrote .. ask yourself why would milosevic send in the army into kosovo, and the answer is because it was being unstabilized by albanian terrorists and criminals killing serbs and officers .. secondly if milosevic wanted to ethnically cleanse kosovo of albaninas then he would have done that from the beginning, but instead he was only interested in destroying the terrorist organization that was known as the kla ... third of all in case you didnt know the majority of the ethnic cleansing occurred when nato started bombing yugoslavia so nato was at fault there . and fourth if you albanians didnt like it in yugoslavia then why didnt you go back to albania, albanians are the only people currently on earth that i know of that try to steal other people's territories whether its serbia's, macedonia's, montenegro's or greece's . its a fact that the kosovo war is highly controversial because of the illegal bombing of yugoslavia by nato forces and the lies that western countries made up in order to be able to intervene .. in addition its a fact that the kla was and continues to be a terrorist group that was composed with mafia members and traffickers, where milosevic as president was perfectly right to intervene in order to eliminate the kla and stabilize the region
pre 11 godina
oh aleks, i've grown accustomed to reading arguments like yours here. its never the fault of serbia. its either america, germany, ungrateful albanians or the vatican. never serbia or the serbs
pre 11 godina
Pfaff- piffle. Serbia has accepted its responsibility a million times over. It has been bombed by NATO for gods sake. It is you and your quislings who need to accept their history and guilt. They need to be forgiven for a whole lot more.
pre 11 godina
I Quote -
(Zoran, 19 July 2012 16:58)
Comment -
Bog ti Pogomo !.
Arn.Sweden.
pre 11 godina
@Nenad
actually its a known fact that america along with germany was trying to deliberately destroy yugoslavia by supporting the nazi leaderships in both croatia and bosnia ... its a known fact that the breakup of yugoslavia was not the result of ethnic tensions persay but rather the west wanting to implement capitalism in the last socalist country within eastern europe... the croats and the muslims were pawns in helping the west achieve their plans .. there is no way in hell there could have been a peaceful solution as the us and germany clearly pressured both bosnia and croatia to declare independence and they knew very well that a war was going to occur so dont be naive in thinking the opposite ... and your claim about a peaceful breakup is ridiculous, do you honestly think that if there was a peaceful breakup there would be any serbs left in bosnia or croatia?? they would have been killed or ethnically cleansed cuz the leaders in both of those countries were nazi sympathizers
pre 11 godina
Aleks, who are these tons of Western historians? Give me some sources to research.
pre 11 godina
...in addition its a fact that the kla was and continues to be a terrorist group that was composed with mafia members and traffickers, where milosevic as president was perfectly right to intervene in order to eliminate the kla and stabilize the region
(Aleks, 20 July 2012 19:29)...
Question:Who is a KLA member?
Milosevic: Every Albanian from 0 to 102 years old.Yes,they killed women,babies and a 102 years old Albanian man from Prishtina.
But I know ,for Alex everything was made accoring to the law.Even when they strip the authonomy of Kosovo.It was according to the law to put the gun in every albanian member of parliament head to vote pro.It was right,according to Alex.
Unfortunately,a lot of serbs think like Alex and thats why we have this problems in Balkan.
Solution?May be they will change their attitude towards Albanians?Wait and see.I hope so.
pre 11 godina
Aleks, you're taking things out of context. Chomsky and Mandel are humanitarians strongly critical -- and rightly so -- of cynical governments bent on consolidating power and wealth. I listened to the Mandel lecture you posted and honestly didn't hear anything new. In fact, voices like his can be heard all over the Western media, and I tend to agree with a lot of what they say. But I still disagree with the view -- whether put forward by the likes of Chomsky and Mandel or not -- that the West was out to destroy Yugoslavia back in the 1980s.
It's also a stretch to cite NATO intervention -- and maybe you're not one who does -- as proof of such a plan. I'm not saying that there weren't cynical aspects to Western foreign policy with regard to the Balkans in the 1990s, but come on, you have to look at what the leaders of the ex-YU republics were doing at that time. Do you honestly think that the regimes in Belgrade, Zagreb, Sarajevo and Podgorica were any less corrupt than any other government throughout the world? Just think what somone like Milosevic might have done had he ruled a country with the size and power of the US.
NATO might have been somewhat opportunistic when bombing the Serbs, but they were also trying to stop a conflict that threatened to spiral completely out of control. Many would agrue that the basic objective by 1995 (in the case of BiH and Croatia) was to establish a military balance that could enable lasting peace in the region.
pre 11 godina
@Mirel from Albania
dont play dumb or be naive you very well know who was part of the kla becasue you alanians continously support these criminals and terrorists which makes you as bad as them ... the albanians terrorists and criminals were the ones that started the trouble by starting to killing serbs, other ethnic minorites and even police officers which prompted and gave full legitimacy for milosevic to react as the president of the country to stabilize the region in any way shape or form .. if you albanains didnt like your lives in kosovo or if you hated milosevic then you could have gone back to albania and lived there but no you stayed in kosovo and tried to steal the serb's land and sacred land at that ... let me be clear to all the albanians that think the fight for kosovo is over, IT ISNT and wont be until the serbs have regained ALL of kosovo .. i can fully gurantee we are waiting for our moment to strike and that it is only a matter of time before we regain kosovo ... if you dont believe me look at serbian history and you will see that the serbs have eventually fought off every invader that has tried to conquer them
the serbs are not the ones preventing peace in the balkans, all they want is the land that rightfully belongs to them .. so Mirel and all albanians that want peace in the balkans this is what you can do: go back to your country of albania and stay there and stop trying to steal other country's lands (serbia's, greece's, macedonia's and montenegro's)
pre 11 godina
third of all in case you didnt know the majority of the ethnic cleansing occurred when nato started bombing yugoslavia so nato was at fault there.
(Aleks, 20 July 2012 19:29)
Dear, fault is about causation. You are confusing correlation with causation. That means that because you were having dinner almost every day that the ethnic cleansing was happening in Kosovo, it is your fault for the ethnic cleansing :)
Anyway, your argument has been rejected beyond reasonable doubt by a Court set up by Russia & co. which said that the displacement of Albanians was not because of NATO but because of the actions of the Serbian army.
pre 11 godina
Why do you think Churchill and his friends pushed to join all those countries together to form yugoslavia after world war 2? It was so that when the time was right for them, they would have an easy way to destabilize the region and weaken all those countries through war, so they would be dependant on the West instead of competition to them. They knew from the start that putting those countries together as one nation would make them an easy target for the West to then divide and conquer. And the idiots in all the countries that were part of yugoslavia, played perfectly into the West's game and destroyed and weakened eachother while the west sat back and laughed.
The West has used this divide and conquer strategy in so many parts of the world and continue to use it to this day, but people are too stupid to notice and so they destroy eachother when the West commands them to.
I wonder how long the countries of that region will be paying off their debt to the west?
pre 11 godina
just wait the fight for kosovo will NEVER be over
(Aleks, 21 July 2012 09:51)
Sure, nice preaching... others will fight for your dreams as you watch from your armchair
pre 11 godina
@icj1
who said ill be watching the fight?? i realize you albanians are used to having other people fight your battles for you but dont confuse me with you
i will gladly join in and help my fellow serbs fight for kosovo when the time comes
pre 11 godina
...ask yourself why kosovo's autonomy was stripped in the first place, it was because you albaninas were abusing it, behaving like criminals and hooligans killing serbs, other ethnic minorities and officers even before the war started . and the fact is that you know who was part of the terrorist kla so dont play games with me, the fact that some of you albanians support them makes you no better than the criminals and terrorists that were in the kla
...
@Alex,
KLA in 1989?Thats new.Continue to make up the lies my friend.
And no,U never r going to run Kosova again.Get used with this fact.
pre 11 godina
I think its time Bulgaria and Serbia and Croatia put their differences aside and unite. Its time Bulgaria uses its Uranium resources and builds a nuclear weapon as its the only think that can scare NATO as is the case with Iran and North Korea, If your asking where would this weapon be used how about Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Luxembourg where all the money is and we all know all they care about is their money and they would do anything to protect it.
pre 11 godina
Well, unfortunately it is NATO and more specifically the USA, which have not been open to Serbia's side of the proper use of force.
(kujon, 19 July 2012 11:15)
the baby-sitter all your life????
have some dignity and stop saying those rubbish things...
it is ALBANIANS that will defend Kosova and only ALBANIANS as in many years before NATO even existed...
pre 11 godina
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs? Funny, how you focus only on this one little piece of the article instead of how practical Nikolic is. The fact is, business won't be as usual from this point on. There will be some kind of partition or Kosovo will be in a weird limbo status for ever, just like Cyprus.
(Daniel, 19 July 2012 11:47)
If there was another conflict between NATO and Serbia, Putin's Russia wouldn't be able to do a thing about it. Russia is a dying power with a declining population, but Putin is desperatley trying to make Moscow the Superpower it once was back in the 1980s. Russia will only be an economic power.
However I do agree with you that there will be a partition in Kosovo with the North being apart of Serbia. It is the only sensible option, nobody wins but everyone gains stability.
pre 11 godina
Ben, please cut the breast beating - Albanians have not been able to defend anything, ever, on their own. They either sucked up to the Turks, or WWII Nazis, and now they are under the care of the US/EU. Albanians never had a pot to pee in, and still don't, so how exactly did, and will they defend Kosovo? Besides, Ben, Kosovo is Serbian land, and when you occupy something by over populating that land, it is not yours to defend. So chill out, Benny, no one is afraid of you.
pre 11 godina
this whole bs about sacret land, and we have been there once is just ridicules. You lost a war, just like Germany lost a war, and me as a german also says, thank god Germany lost that awful war. There were parts of Germany in Poland, in East Prussia, along the French border, where Germans also lived for hundreds of years, which were taken away after that awful war. Nobody here would come up with this crazy bs, that it is old german land, and threfore has to be returned. Germany lost the war, and with it this land. So what, nobody sheds a tear about it, and people realize that it was good that we were freed from the Nazi's. Serbia should learn that they should be happy that the Milosovic years are over, that it has a chance to become a free country, but instead it goes on clinging to this weird mixture of false patriatism mixed with religious bs that gets it nowhere. Kosovo is gone, look to the furture, be glad that Nato helped you to get rid of Milosovic, and stop playing these games.
pre 11 godina
Well, unfortunately it is NATO and more specifically the USA, which have not been open to Serbia's side of the proper use of force.
(kujon, 19 July 2012 11:15)
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs? Funny, how you focus only on this one little piece of the article instead of how practical Nikolic is. The fact is, business won't be as usual from this point on. There will be some kind of partition or Kosovo will be in a weird limbo status for ever, just like Cyprus.
pre 11 godina
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs? Funny, how you focus only on this one little piece of the article instead of how practical Nikolic is. The fact is, business won't be as usual from this point on. There will be some kind of partition or Kosovo will be in a weird limbo status for ever, just like Cyprus.
(Daniel, 19 July 2012 11:47)
You and others who like to use nationalistic rhetoric similar to Nikolic know your words are empty. Of course there is a difference in what your lot likes to call violence and attack. Trying to place the guards at the checkpoints was not a violent or attack. It did not become violent until Serbs attempted to block it. But Thaci does not have the power to "attack" the north and Nikolic knows it so it is a safe scenario to play out as he knows he will never have to live up to his words. But NATO does have the mandate to protect Kosovo from any type of invasion of Serb forces for any reason. Any action by Russia to counter that would be an illegal act in violation of their own resolution. But it will not come to that as Serb forces are never going to cross the border as that would end EU hopes.
But it is funny even you are talking partition of Kosovo now as 2 years ago no Serb would have ventured there. Progress my friend, progress. Note it was suggested during negotiations by the west totally rejected by any Serb.
pre 11 godina
You are a Looser in this game and will loose the whole of Kosovo !.
I Quote -
Asked what he would do as the commander in chief of the Serbian armed forces if Kosovo PM Hashim Thaci attacked northern Kosovo, Nikolić responded with a question: "If someone attacked northern Kosovo using force, would they not consider that Serbia could use force to win Kosovo back? Who decides when force is justified and when it is not."
Comment -
Do you think The Albanians in Kosovo would be alone ?.
Albania will join in as well as Hungary from the other side.
But this You have -
" You will never be President in Pristina ".
Arn.Sweden.
pre 11 godina
Willi, you got it wrong again and you seem evermore frustrated. You should be comparing the NAZIs to NATO. We were bombed and occupied by the NAZIs and they gave Serbian land away to their partners in crime (genocide) - the Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. Now NATO is doing the same thing, which is not surprising considering that practically all former NAZI partners are integrated into NATO.
We defeated the NAZIs and we will wait patiently to defeat the NATO death machine. We see the current situation as a temporary occupation. So, as we saw NAZI Europe going down the drain, so we will see the NATO EU go down the drain.
pre 11 godina
Comment -
Do you think The Albanians in Kosovo would be alone ?.
Albania will join in as well as Hungary from the other side.
===================================
Is this official or are you daydreaming again?
pre 11 godina
Pfaff - stop trying to relativise repugnant German history with Serbia's. I am beginning to wonder if you and your Croatian friends are really in love with us. I am afraid it will go unreturned.
pre 11 godina
Willi, what an idiotic comparison you made. How about if the allies took Berlin away from the Germans after WWII, how would that sit with real Germans? - which I do not believe you are. Kosovo is Serbia's ancient and sacred land. It is not some territory on the outskirts of Serbia, if anything, Kosovo is more Serbian than Belgrade.
pre 11 godina
@belgius
i can tell you a couple of wars that the serbs won, the first and second balkan wars, ww1, ww2 ... the albanians winning a war?? that has gotta be the biggest joke in history, the albanians didnt have a state until 1912 and wouldnt even have a country if it werent for the great powers pressuring serbia and greece to pull their forces out after the second balkan war .. albania has never been able to do anything on its own .. serbia on the other hand has a richer history and was winning the war in the 90s up until nato intervned and decided to bomb them in 95 and 99, do you think the croats, mulims and albanians would have even had a chance against the serbian military if it werent for nato?? serbia has got the strongest army in the balkans and once nato leaves the serbs will regain kosovo and annex republika srpska, its just a matter of time ... and if you dont beleive just take a look at history which repeats itself, the serbs have always managed to fight out invaders out of their homeland
pre 11 godina
dream on, you will never win, and your true face comes out now ....
pre 11 godina
The best thing about partition is we wont have to live with the Albanians. It is not a racist comment, just from all our previous experiences. I have many very nice Albanian friends, but on the whole I would rather we dont have to live with them. No doubt they feel the same way, so lets divorce and split the proceeds.
pre 11 godina
You did not defeat any Nazi. Allied forces mostly UK, US and USSR have defeated Nazis. The moment when Nazis were withdrawing to go and defend their mainland, partisans dropped from mountains. Spare me those idiotic communist lectures.
(Simpatiku, 19 July 2012 18:49)
--
LOL! We didn't defeat the NAZIs single handedly but we are always on the winning side. In fact, the Chetniks were one of the very first resistence forces against the NAZIs and that's one of the reason Germans hate us so much, right Willi?
I suppose you are upset the NAZI's lost, right? Well, you've got your second chance now. You just need to defeat Russia and China this time.
pre 11 godina
Mark- as if we care. The less we have to do with you lot the better. Just go back to Albania where you came from and all will be fine.
pre 11 godina
We defeated the NAZIs and we will wait patiently to defeat the NATO death machine. We see the current situation as a temporary occupation. So, as we saw NAZI Europe going down the drain, so we will see the NATO EU go down the drain.
(Zoran, 19 July 2012 16:58)
As for Nikolic he knows he dares not violate the terms of capitulations. Otherwise there will be no Serbia on the map.
You did not defeat any Nazi. Allied forces mostly UK, US and USSR have defeated Nazis. The moment when Nazis were withdrawing to go and defend their mainland, partisans dropped from mountains. Spare me those idiotic communist lectures.
pre 11 godina
Kosovo is gone, look to the furture, be glad that Nato helped you to get rid of Milosovic, and stop playing these games.
(Willi Pfaff, 19 July 2012 15:07
RE:
Serbia thwarts Giant!
First of all , Serbia did not "lose the war" , Milosevic was smart enough to sign the best agreement possible when Russia fully turned back it's support. The entire army pulled back fully in tact and operational, the combined NATO, Albanian terrorists KLA did not even touch the armor of the Serbian army.
Does it remind you of the Austro-Hungarian empire who invaded Serbia in WWI and General Poitorik promised Emperor Franz Ferdinand that Serbia would be erased from the map. General Poitorek was repelled three times by the Serbian peasant army; back against the Drina, back to Viennna with his ass behind his tail. Little Serbia , barealy a population of 3 Mil, a beat up army at best of 350,000 just fresh off the Balkan wars facing a fresh Austro-Hungarian army amassed close to a 1,000,000.
There was no Russians or anybody else helping Serbia other than moral support from France; Le Journee Serb............
Kosovo-Metohia population when liberated in 1912 compromised almost 50/50 between Serbians and Albanians. Today it is 97% to 3% Albanians to Serbians, just how is cleansing who?
Kosovo-Metohija is the birthplace of the Serbian nation, very much like Berlin is to Germany although not quite the same.
pre 11 godina
"If someone attacked northern Kosovo using force, would they not consider that Serbia could use force to win Kosovo back? Who decides when force is justified and when it is not."
Well, unfortunately it is NATO and more specifically the USA, which have not been open to Serbia's side of the proper use of force.
pre 11 godina
...Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs?...
Yes,Putin is sitting and watching on TV, now when his strong ally Assad is getting kicked and seeon russians will get kicked out of the only base they have in Mediterranien Sea after they were kicked out 50 years ago from Enver Hoxha from Vlora military base.
It was Putin that was sitting and watching TV when his body Gaddaf was humiliated.
Also, was Putin who put his tail between his legs and qiuetly left Bosnia and Kosovo.
Dreaming that Putin will attach NATO over some serbs in North is just a gream of serb nationalists.
Keep dreaming!
pre 11 godina
Mark- as if we care. The less we have to do with you lot the better. Just go back to Albania where you came from and all will be fine.
(Helsingborg., 19 July 2012 17:38)
Deal.But when we leave for Albania you guys got to leave for the mountains of Iran and Afghanistan where you guys came from,and all will be fine.
pre 11 godina
i'm trying to figure out what nikolic has actually said. essentially he is claiming the previous Serbian gov. lied about the nature of the agreements they signed with Kosovar officials. the rest is just politician's talk, basically piffle. ready to take responsibility? what does that even mean? when you're president of a country, the direction that country takes (depending on the constitution of that country) is dependent on you, so it doesn't matter if you're ready or not, the buck stops with you. a lot of politicians these days, talk without actually saying anything.
pre 11 godina
Nikolić underlined that the self-proclaimed state of Kosovo would not be allowed to become a UN member, and announced he would propose solutions for Kosovo which had already been implemented, such as the status of Germans in Belgium or the example of South Tyrol.
Try those implemented solutions for the Albanians in Presevo and all the other minorities in Serbia.As for Kosovo keep lying to your people.Even without a UN seat we still are much better that we have ever been and we will never be under Serbia again.
pre 11 godina
"serbia on the other hand has a richer history and was winning the war in the 90s up until nato intervned and decided to bomb them in 95 and 99, do you think the croats, mulims and albanians would have even had a chance against the serbian military if it werent for nato?"
of course serbia was winning .....bcs serbia sucked all the military out of all republics before it started its war on the civilians of Yugoslavia don't you remember that or were you even born then ....???
pre 11 godina
"ecomen: Ben, please cut the breast beating - Albanians have not been able to defend anything, ever."
ecomen, if you look the ancient and the modern history you will see that Albanians have faught and won many wars and they didn't had "MOTHER RUSSIA" behind them to give them modern weapons.
But can you please tell me "ONE WAR" that Serbia has won in the last 500 years?
I need an answer ;)
pre 11 godina
I suppose you are upset the NAZI's lost, right? Well, you've got your second chance now. You just need to defeat Russia and China this time.
(Zoran, 19 July 2012 19:31)
Not at all. I am very in favor of Nazi defeat as was the majority of my nation. The fact that there was a group of people sided with Nazi regime, does not make my Albanian nation Nazi ally. On the other side the fact that prince Pavlje Karadjordjevic was one of the main Nazi ally in Balkans, does not make your Serbian nation a Nazi ally.
I don't have to defeat any China or Russia. The world countries are cooperating with each other. It is only Serbs who think that the World swings around Serbia.
pre 11 godina
"""He noted that the modern world should not idly watch the violence against Serbs in the north. ""
Oh how easy these Serbians forget the same cry from the Albanians not long ago or the 78 days of bombing to understand their own faults ....as today they still don't see them
pre 11 godina
That sounds not good. A man who even couldn't take responsibility for having been the lackey of Seselj's politics for years, will take over the responsibility of a political decision-making of a problem for which until now there is not presented a satisfying idea of a resolution by any living political expert in this world. It resembles a hippo who decided to prey like a cheetah forgetting he doesn't have the skills for it.
pre 11 godina
Willi Pfaff, Serbs fought for disputable lands, while Germany fought for the lands for which it had ABSOLUTELY NO rights.
pre 11 godina
@Pyrros
fyi i was born before the war started and i remember everything .. the reason serbia was winning the war was becasue its army was better trained and equipped compared to the muslim and croat armies ... both bosnia and croatia knew they were gonna get into a war with serbia so whose fault is that that they werent prepared?? the minute they declared independence they should have known the war was to begin ... btw serbia didnt suck out any military out of any other republics, in case you didnt know serbia was the dominant yugoslav republic and most of the military industry was located there ... when croatia and bosnia declared independence their soldiers basically left the yugoslavian army and formed their own croat and muslim armies but it was no match for the serb army and it isnt to this day, so check your facts
pre 11 godina
“For example, it has been kept secret that the name of Kosovo can be followed just by an asterisk at regional meetings, without the footnote
Thanx for telling the truth, but I wonder how previous government feels with singing that footnote during past regional meetings? They really made a fool of themselves, when even Cooper said that; an agreement was not being honored by Serbs. The rest of the story on this article is history written on ice, and once the sun hits it, it will melt.
pre 11 godina
(Willi Pfaff, 19 July 2012 15:07)
Do you have a backbone? Or has reeducation worked that well with you?
You are not Germany's spokesperson! Do you know no shame?
Throwing a whole nation into the mud only because you are a guilt driven person? Who shall respect you? Neither Serbs nor Albanians will.
pre 11 godina
We voted you in to fix our economy, dont put on a smoking screen by talking about something we cant get back. Focusing on this issue wont bring anything, try to get rid of the corruption and bring back economic growth if you really wanne do something for the Serbian people. And keep the SPS in line, because they were part of the criminal transactions during the DS rule. We have had enough of symbol politics, kick the maffia out of parliament and stop discussing Kosovo number plates, cause thats as far as we can stretch this issue. God bless Serbia!
pre 11 godina
Nikolic is saying the same stuff we've heard for years. Really difficult to imagine him adding any value to Serbian politics, but in my view, that was always a foregone conclusion. He'll be thrown on the scrap heap in a few years along with Vucic and Dacic, and then Jeremic or someone will get a shot. Round and round we go.
pre 11 godina
@Nenad
actually its a known fact that america along with germany was trying to deliberately destroy yugoslavia by supporting the nazi leaderships in both croatia and bosnia ... its a known fact that the breakup of yugoslavia was not the result of ethnic tensions persay but rather the west wanting to implement capitalism in the last socalist country within eastern europe... the croats and the muslims were pawns in helping the west achieve their plans .. there is no way in hell there could have been a peaceful solution as the us and germany clearly pressured both bosnia and croatia to declare independence and they knew very well that a war was going to occur so dont be naive in thinking the opposite ... and your claim about a peaceful breakup is ridiculous, do you honestly think that if there was a peaceful breakup there would be any serbs left in bosnia or croatia?? they would have been killed or ethnically cleansed cuz the leaders in both of those countries were nazi sympathizers
pre 11 godina
@Nenad
as for your washington accord it was a minor development cuz it only stopped fighting between the croats and muslims.. the serbs in bosnia still controlled most of their areas and the serbs in croatia had their defences holding ... the war did not fully turn to the other side until nato intervened because the croats wouldnt have been able to launch and initiate storm and flash without nato's assistance and the same thing applies to the muslim side .. the serbs had a larger and stronger force so a larger force needed to enter the war in order to change the outcome .. i mentioned this before and i'll say it again nato only intervened to prevent the serbs from fully winning the war and to force them to the negotiating table, otherwise why would they have come in at that specfic point in time (and dont give me some bs excuse about human rights, which was used as their cover story, the us is the last country that should be talking about protecting human rights) ... so please check your facts and dont be naive in trying to argue
pre 11 godina
@A new day
i completely agree that everybody is entitled to their opinion in arguing over events, but the fact remains is there are certain things that are facts & cannot be disputed like the last sentence you wrote .. ask yourself why would milosevic send in the army into kosovo, and the answer is because it was being unstabilized by albanian terrorists and criminals killing serbs and officers .. secondly if milosevic wanted to ethnically cleanse kosovo of albaninas then he would have done that from the beginning, but instead he was only interested in destroying the terrorist organization that was known as the kla ... third of all in case you didnt know the majority of the ethnic cleansing occurred when nato started bombing yugoslavia so nato was at fault there . and fourth if you albanians didnt like it in yugoslavia then why didnt you go back to albania, albanians are the only people currently on earth that i know of that try to steal other people's territories whether its serbia's, macedonia's, montenegro's or greece's . its a fact that the kosovo war is highly controversial because of the illegal bombing of yugoslavia by nato forces and the lies that western countries made up in order to be able to intervene .. in addition its a fact that the kla was and continues to be a terrorist group that was composed with mafia members and traffickers, where milosevic as president was perfectly right to intervene in order to eliminate the kla and stabilize the region
pre 11 godina
You're not entitled to speak for all Germans, Willy, since lots of us DON'T agree with tour point of view !!!
Comparing Serbia with Nazi Germany is outright nonsense !!!
Sprechen Sie besser für sich selbst als für Deutschland!
Joachim
pre 11 godina
Noam Chomsky, Michael Mandel, Edward Said, Michael Parenti and etc are just a few of those scholars that have been critical of western involvement in the breakup of yugoslavia .. below is a link of michael parenti giving a lecture on the war on yugoslavia and how it was an economic war used to break up yugoslavia and turn them into dependent states under capitalism .. its a little long but its definitely informative ... you could look up a lot more info online by just typing nato aggression against yugoslavia/serbia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7BszQCgwLc
this has to do with the kosovo issue but one of the Canadian un peacekeepers who is a general claimed that the west supported the wrong side in the war and supported criminals and terrorists on the albanian side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy1JzwpJ9ec
pre 11 godina
@Mirel from Albania
dont play dumb or be naive you very well know who was part of the kla becasue you alanians continously support these criminals and terrorists which makes you as bad as them ... the albanians terrorists and criminals were the ones that started the trouble by starting to killing serbs, other ethnic minorites and even police officers which prompted and gave full legitimacy for milosevic to react as the president of the country to stabilize the region in any way shape or form .. if you albanains didnt like your lives in kosovo or if you hated milosevic then you could have gone back to albania and lived there but no you stayed in kosovo and tried to steal the serb's land and sacred land at that ... let me be clear to all the albanians that think the fight for kosovo is over, IT ISNT and wont be until the serbs have regained ALL of kosovo .. i can fully gurantee we are waiting for our moment to strike and that it is only a matter of time before we regain kosovo ... if you dont believe me look at serbian history and you will see that the serbs have eventually fought off every invader that has tried to conquer them
the serbs are not the ones preventing peace in the balkans, all they want is the land that rightfully belongs to them .. so Mirel and all albanians that want peace in the balkans this is what you can do: go back to your country of albania and stay there and stop trying to steal other country's lands (serbia's, greece's, macedonia's and montenegro's)
pre 11 godina
@Mirel from Albania
ask yourself why kosovo's autonomy was stripped in the first place, it was because you albaninas were abusing it, behaving like criminals and hooligans killing serbs, other ethnic minorities and officers even before the war started . and the fact is that you know who was part of the terrorist kla so dont play games with me, the fact that some of you albanians support them makes you no better than the criminals and terrorists that were in the kla
and there is no peace in the balkans becasue albanians keep trying to steal not only seria's land but macedonia's, greece's & montenegro's . you dont see serbs going into albania and trying to take a piece of it becasue it is albanian, just like albanians shouldn't be taking kosovo from serbs becasue its serbian .. if you didnt like milosevic or your life there then why didnt you people go back to albania
just wait the fight for kosovo will NEVER be over until serbs have regained control over ALL of kosovo . there will be another war coming mark my words .. the serbs are just waiting for the opportune moment to strike .. throughout serb history many groups have tried to conquer us and take our lands but we eventually defeated them and drove them out .. albanians will suffer the same fate as the ottomans, hapsburgs, and nazis/fascists
if you want peace then stop supporting criminals/terrorists, stop terrorizing serbs and other minorities and stop thinking kosovo is independent cuz it isnt and never will be!
pre 11 godina
Of course that President Nikolic responsible policy towards Kosovo and he is perfectly qualified to do so. Despite some remain Ministry for Kosovo and Metohija, personally I think this is unnecessary and causes costs to Serbia and now does not need.
pre 11 godina
"...bosnia and croatia knew they were gonna get into a war with serbia so whose fault is that that they werent prepared?? the minute they declared independence they should have known the war was to begin ... "
(Aleks, 19 July 2012 22:23)
This is a silly assertion, because one could easily level the same accusation against Serbs, many of whom claim that the West was conspiring to destroy Yugoslavia from the beginning. Well, if what these Serbs claim were true, shouldn't Sloba and the JNA have realized that and steered Yugoslavia toward a peaceful breakup, so as not to incur crippling UN sanctions on the one hand, and the wrath of NATO on the other?
Also, you argue that Serbs were winning the wars up until NATO started bombing them in 1995, but you forget the Washington Accord in March 1994. This was the agreement that pushed the Croats and Muslims back into an alliance and, crucially, enabled Muslims to begin taking back lost territory. Meanwhile, the Croatian army was able to focus on beefing up for Flash and Storm in 1995. The Serbs knew by autumn 1994 that the military balance had shifted in favor of the Muslims and Croats, and that it was time to sue for peace and take what they could get. We see evidence of this in the fact that Karadzic passed a settlement proposal to General Rose (UNPROFOR Commander at the time) in which he was willing to accept far less than 50 percent of BiH. So I think you also need to check a few facts before arguing your points.
pre 11 godina
Is it just my cynical mind ticking over or is there a pro Albanian/anti Serb reader in control of the recommended/poor comment button?
pre 11 godina
"actually its a known fact that america along with germany was trying to deliberately destroy yugoslavia by supporting the nazi leaderships in both croatia and bosnia ... its a known fact that the breakup of yugoslavia was not the result of ethnic tensions persay but rather the west wanting to implement capitalism in the last socalist country within eastern europe..."
(Aleks, 20 July 2012 11:34)
Oh, really? And what sources substantiate this? Couldn't possibly be the free Serbian media of the 1990s and 2000s. Actually, have media in Serbia and other Balkan countries ever been free of state control?
Or maybe you're reading websites launched by historians with PhDs from the University of Nevermind, I don't know. Guys like you are always pointing me to links that are complete waste of time.
Anyway, getting back to the Washington Accord, you really don't think it would have helped Muslims and Croats in their fight against Serbs when they were no longer having to fight each other?
And turning to Croatia, the reason the RSK was holding its positions there was because of the UNPAs, not because of any military advantage. While Croatia assembled a stronger army (with the tacit support of retired US and German military experts) during the (mostly) three-year lull in fighting, the RSK stood still, trusting that Sloba would once again come to their defense if fighting were to resume. Guess what?
pre 11 godina
Aleks, who are these tons of Western historians? Give me some sources to research.
pre 11 godina
...in addition its a fact that the kla was and continues to be a terrorist group that was composed with mafia members and traffickers, where milosevic as president was perfectly right to intervene in order to eliminate the kla and stabilize the region
(Aleks, 20 July 2012 19:29)...
Question:Who is a KLA member?
Milosevic: Every Albanian from 0 to 102 years old.Yes,they killed women,babies and a 102 years old Albanian man from Prishtina.
But I know ,for Alex everything was made accoring to the law.Even when they strip the authonomy of Kosovo.It was according to the law to put the gun in every albanian member of parliament head to vote pro.It was right,according to Alex.
Unfortunately,a lot of serbs think like Alex and thats why we have this problems in Balkan.
Solution?May be they will change their attitude towards Albanians?Wait and see.I hope so.
pre 11 godina
@(Crna Ruka, 20 July 2012 21:29)
II don't think you get it, and you are completly wrong. Look at the western countries now. Look at the EU, there are so many different cultures working together, and contrary to what some people say here, it works. It brought peace to this continent, where we were fighting against each other for ao, so long. Cultural diversity is the key word, and it works, and it is great. Now Germany and France are friends, same with Poland and Germany for instance. The united Europe works, and it is the best thing that happened to all of us in, actually history. Yes, there are problems, but they will be solved, because we understand what the united Europe brought to us. The current problems will be a catalyst to get Europe even closer together.
The balkans have to be part of it as well, and a beginning is already made. Once that is accomplished there won't be a problem any longer between the ethnic groups in that part of Europe. I realize that this will take time, and a lot needs to happen till this will be possible. Kosovo is one of the most important ones, and Serbia simply has to realize that peace with Kosovo can only be found in that European context. Kosovo will never be part of Serbia again, and another prerequisite is that for peace is that all countries, especially Serbia has to face its past, come to terms with it, and stop this wrong patriotism, which doesn't get anywhere. Kosovo and Serbia have to join the EU at the same time ....
pre 11 godina
I Quote -
(Zoran, 19 July 2012 16:58)
Comment -
Bog ti Pogomo !.
Arn.Sweden.
pre 11 godina
I don't think you get it. This isn't the same world as before 2000. Do you think these days Putin would sit by while NATO annihilated Serbs?
(Daniel, 19 July 2012 11:47)
Of course Putin would not sit. He will have his spokesperson make a statement LOL
In any case, he does not have to even do that because NATO has no intention of annihilating Serbs because NATO is sent there by 1244 and Serbs are strong supporters of 1244 because it says that Kosovo is Serbia LOL
pre 11 godina
@ Nenad
theres obviously no reasoning with you about this and the fact is that you are so blind to reality and how the world operates it makes you look naive .. theres tons of WESTERN historians that agree and argue the point that the us and germany were trying to destablize yugoslavia and that is was really an economic war sought to bring about economic changes .. fyi i dont need any media telling me what is true and whats not, i can actually figure it out for myself .. the us and its allies are responsible for a lot of wars occurring and why you may ask its becasue of the military industrial complex that they profit from .. the fact is that whether you agree with it or not nato was the diffrence maker in the war cuz the croats and muslims would never have gotten the serbs to the negotiaing table by themselves period .. like i said before the washington accord was a minor development in the grand scheme of things, the true point of the war was turned when nato intervened simple as that cuz up until that point the serbs had held their ground and that would NEVEER had changed had nato not intervened
pre 11 godina
Aleks, 20 July 2012 15:44)
One of the big benefits of living in western society (maybe you will learn that if Serbia stays on course) is that people have the ability to have different opinions and can express them without fear.
With the internet you can find people who claim the holocaust was a myth, 911 was orchestrated by Israel, or the US government. They can get on here and tell you that the US is dead and has no influence on the world stage.
But for every one person that makes a statement such as we bombed the wrong people, you will find 100 that disagree.
Whether the US/west wanted to break up Yugoslavia to end socialism does not change the facts of Milosevic's campaign to remove all Albanians from Kosovo by whatever means necessary.
pre 11 godina
Why do you think Churchill and his friends pushed to join all those countries together to form yugoslavia after world war 2? It was so that when the time was right for them, they would have an easy way to destabilize the region and weaken all those countries through war, so they would be dependant on the West instead of competition to them. They knew from the start that putting those countries together as one nation would make them an easy target for the West to then divide and conquer. And the idiots in all the countries that were part of yugoslavia, played perfectly into the West's game and destroyed and weakened eachother while the west sat back and laughed.
The West has used this divide and conquer strategy in so many parts of the world and continue to use it to this day, but people are too stupid to notice and so they destroy eachother when the West commands them to.
I wonder how long the countries of that region will be paying off their debt to the west?
pre 11 godina
third of all in case you didnt know the majority of the ethnic cleansing occurred when nato started bombing yugoslavia so nato was at fault there.
(Aleks, 20 July 2012 19:29)
Dear, fault is about causation. You are confusing correlation with causation. That means that because you were having dinner almost every day that the ethnic cleansing was happening in Kosovo, it is your fault for the ethnic cleansing :)
Anyway, your argument has been rejected beyond reasonable doubt by a Court set up by Russia & co. which said that the displacement of Albanians was not because of NATO but because of the actions of the Serbian army.
pre 11 godina
oh aleks, i've grown accustomed to reading arguments like yours here. its never the fault of serbia. its either america, germany, ungrateful albanians or the vatican. never serbia or the serbs
pre 11 godina
Pfaff- piffle. Serbia has accepted its responsibility a million times over. It has been bombed by NATO for gods sake. It is you and your quislings who need to accept their history and guilt. They need to be forgiven for a whole lot more.
pre 11 godina
But it is funny even you are talking partition of Kosovo now as 2 years ago no Serb would have ventured there. Progress my friend, progress. Note it was suggested during negotiations by the west totally rejected by any Serb.
(a New Day, 19 July 2012 12:51)
what's new here... it's the same old story. Resolution 1244 was denounced by Serbia as one of the darkest pages in UNSCs history being instrumental to the dismemberment of a European state; but today we're told that 1244 says that Kosovo is Serbia LOL As usual Serbs glorify their defeats or things that they rejected or condemned...
pre 11 godina
Aleks, you're taking things out of context. Chomsky and Mandel are humanitarians strongly critical -- and rightly so -- of cynical governments bent on consolidating power and wealth. I listened to the Mandel lecture you posted and honestly didn't hear anything new. In fact, voices like his can be heard all over the Western media, and I tend to agree with a lot of what they say. But I still disagree with the view -- whether put forward by the likes of Chomsky and Mandel or not -- that the West was out to destroy Yugoslavia back in the 1980s.
It's also a stretch to cite NATO intervention -- and maybe you're not one who does -- as proof of such a plan. I'm not saying that there weren't cynical aspects to Western foreign policy with regard to the Balkans in the 1990s, but come on, you have to look at what the leaders of the ex-YU republics were doing at that time. Do you honestly think that the regimes in Belgrade, Zagreb, Sarajevo and Podgorica were any less corrupt than any other government throughout the world? Just think what somone like Milosevic might have done had he ruled a country with the size and power of the US.
NATO might have been somewhat opportunistic when bombing the Serbs, but they were also trying to stop a conflict that threatened to spiral completely out of control. Many would agrue that the basic objective by 1995 (in the case of BiH and Croatia) was to establish a military balance that could enable lasting peace in the region.
pre 11 godina
just wait the fight for kosovo will NEVER be over
(Aleks, 21 July 2012 09:51)
Sure, nice preaching... others will fight for your dreams as you watch from your armchair
pre 11 godina
@icj1
who said ill be watching the fight?? i realize you albanians are used to having other people fight your battles for you but dont confuse me with you
i will gladly join in and help my fellow serbs fight for kosovo when the time comes
pre 11 godina
...ask yourself why kosovo's autonomy was stripped in the first place, it was because you albaninas were abusing it, behaving like criminals and hooligans killing serbs, other ethnic minorities and officers even before the war started . and the fact is that you know who was part of the terrorist kla so dont play games with me, the fact that some of you albanians support them makes you no better than the criminals and terrorists that were in the kla
...
@Alex,
KLA in 1989?Thats new.Continue to make up the lies my friend.
And no,U never r going to run Kosova again.Get used with this fact.
pre 11 godina
I think its time Bulgaria and Serbia and Croatia put their differences aside and unite. Its time Bulgaria uses its Uranium resources and builds a nuclear weapon as its the only think that can scare NATO as is the case with Iran and North Korea, If your asking where would this weapon be used how about Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Luxembourg where all the money is and we all know all they care about is their money and they would do anything to protect it.
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