Greece "denying entry" to northern neighbors

Macedonia is Greek. And before some smartass say something offensive about Greece,read history! No MK or MKD with pass Greek boarderline,the end. Uncivilized leftovers of once glorious Yugoslavia.

"What childish nonsense"

I could not agree more. Is this all Greece has to worry about? People trying to enter Greece to spend money but Greece blocks them. As the Bible verse goes "Pride goes before destruction".. Greece may be broke but they have pride!!!

You know, you'd think that a country with as many problems as Greece has would not be antagonizing their neighbors. From what I understand, this year Greece is going to have its worst summer for tourism in modern history; because people might like the beaches but they hate the petty politics. The Germans wont go because they are sick of paying for Greece and the infantile attitude the country seems to have towards Germany's assistance.

People wont go because of the strikes, the protests, the vandalism, the crime. But it is more than that.

Greece is a country dependent on foreign help; without aid from Northern Europe, Greece would implode. Yet despite being a welfare case, Greece will bully its neighbors as much as it can.

Macedonia is the most obvious case. I am not Macedonian, but anybody who seems to have some sort of conscience would see that what Greece has been doing at NATO and the EU is a flagrant abuse of process. If a much more powerful country had the same attitude towards Greece that Greece has towards say Macedonia, Greece would be a failed third world state.

Greece is afraid of itself.Instead of thinking how to improve citizens life,they constantly find something to complain.This is pure politics
that Greece can't get grip of themselves.They are hurting themselves and their economy.
Greek ambassador to Macedonia not long ago sent an official protest to the Macedonian government saying"The foriegn visitors dont know where they are,because they eat,look alike and drink same way as the people in Greece".I quess,she forget,the people of the Republic of Macedonia and the people of Aegean Macedonia are one and the same people-Macedonian!
You can divide people by borders,but,you can't divide them by nationality.
Greeces visitors do know the difference once they go south of Olympus like Captain P.H. Evans,on Sept.16th,1943 wrote"The Balkan region is Macedonia by nature and not Greek"He observed that the Greek language in Northern Greece was regarded as a foreign language
And that the Greeks were distrusted as something alien in the full sence of the word and viewed as foreign in Macedonia.

e

if i was greece, i'd take every Drachma.. Oops Euro I can get..

What childish nonsense...

You know what, I went to Greece a few years ago...one word OVER RATED!!! I still cringe knowing that I spent alot of money in that over inflated egoistical country I got stuck in Greece for a few days to long because of their strikes before heading over to Croatia and then back to Macedonia. Next year when I go back to Europe, Greece is a definite NO NO.

But by next year they would go back to the drachma and be a developing country with no exports & they would be BEGGING for Macedonian tourists. Infact, I would speak a bit of Macedonian to Greek super market owners and they would say 'Kako si' when I told them I was Macedonian. So I would shop there everyday! Those who play 'politics' make the average Greek suffer.

(Joe A, 21 June 2012 12:14)

The country which is now FYROM in ancient times was not called Macedonia (except for a small portion by the Greek border) but Paionia. Paionia was conquered land by the Macedonias, just like Egypt and Persia were. No Ancient Macedonians did ever live in Skupi. It was never part of Macedonia down to 1204 when the name Macedonia became obsolete in the ruins of the Eastern Roman empire.

You can simply check the very website of the city of Skopje: http://www.skopje.gov.mk/EN/De...

Peter

The Greeks have no nationalistic view as far as Fyrom is concerned . They do not dream of conquering your country, or even the small portions of it that once were really parts of Ancient Macedonia. You are the ones who dream being brothers of the Macedonians, that Macedonia belongs to you - despite the fact that 91% of your country has nothing to do with historical Macedonia - and you shall "liberate" it one day, despite the fact that the real Macedonians despise you for the great evils that you incurred upon them.

You know, you'd think that a country with as many problems as Greece has would not be antagonizing their neighbors. From what I understand, this year Greece is going to have its worst summer for tourism in modern history; because people might like the beaches but they hate the petty politics. The Germans wont go because they are sick of paying for Greece and the infantile attitude the country seems to have towards Germany's assistance.

People wont go because of the strikes, the protests, the vandalism, the crime. But it is more than that.

Greece is a country dependent on foreign help; without aid from Northern Europe, Greece would implode. Yet despite being a welfare case, Greece will bully its neighbors as much as it can.

Macedonia is the most obvious case. I am not Macedonian, but anybody who seems to have some sort of conscience would see that what Greece has been doing at NATO and the EU is a flagrant abuse of process. If a much more powerful country had the same attitude towards Greece that Greece has towards say Macedonia, Greece would be a failed third world state.

(Sharemarket Garden, 21 June 2012 13:39)

If Greece had so many problems, as you allege, have you ever wondered as to why thousands of Albanians,Bulgarians and Fyromians are coming to Greece looking for work?Very few people from Fyrom can afford a holiday in Greece on their meagre 250 euros monthly salary.

Tourism is only a part of the Greek economy 13% to be exact and a fall in numbers,though unwelcome,it's not going to be the end of the world.Individuals that have feelings like you do should stay away from Greece and choose another holiday destination.

The people that now live in FYROM/Makedonia are a mix of Slavs, Bulgars, Albanians and others and have no relation with the ancient Macedonians. It remains to be seen however to what extent the modern Greek is desendant from the ancient ones (and I think the ancient Greek would be very displeased to see what a mess the modern Greek have made of their country). Greece refused to participate in a DNA research because perhaps they may not like what they find (??). The area which is now FYROM once was part of ancient Macedonia of course. I don't think that someone can forbid others how they want to call the territory they occupy. But I also find it very silly how in FYROM/Makedonia they try to appropriate ancient history. Naming Skopje airport after Alexander the Great is a farce, not to mention that grotesque statue in Skopje.
The whole situation is of course against EU good neighbourly relations.
I have one suggestion for a name: Paeonia Macedonia. Sounds rather cool.
Kind of corresponds to the current size of FYROM/Macedonia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonia_%28kingdom%29
BTW, I love both FYROM/Macedonians and the Greek. Why can't we all just get along?

why isn't this the only logical thing to do? you are in dispute with a country, yet you visit it , with plates which are not valid in the country you are going to...? To me it sounds more like an event made in purpose to create ''the incident'' and become/play the victim

Greece itself is a ethnic mixed diverse state,
In trachia Bulgarians,Turks and Roma live and lived
In Macedonia Macedonians/Turks/Jews/Albanians and in the south Greeks.
In Thessaly vlachs
Epir/Western Greece and Around Athens Lived Albanians.

Greeks from Crete are genetically different then those from mainland greece..

But all people where orthodox and so became Greek nothing more.
When the population exchange between Greece and turkey took place, Turks (Muslims) spoke Greek language and Greeks (orthodox Christians) spoke Turkish language.

And that Macedonia is Macedonian can be proved by Turkish/Ottoman documents also of Russian chronicles.
In Macedonia you still have remote villages were traditions that Alexander the Great had are still practiced. And many stories that are told mouth to mouth from more than 2000 years ago.

To finish this: Greeks in the 19th C NEVER considered Macedonia as part of Greece!!

P.S.
Around 1100 the Byzantines wrote that the whole of Hellas was Slaviced!
Meaning there weer no more Greeks/Hellenes The language only survived in the Church and in Anatolia(Turkey).

And what Albanians did in Kosovo the Greeks did to Macedonians.. Ethnically cleansed from their homes, assimilated them and killed the rest.. And then repopulated the region with 1 million Pontic Greeks..

And what Albanians did in Kosovo the Greeks did to Macedonians.. Ethnically cleansed from their homes, assimilated them and killed the rest.. And then repopulated the region with 1 million Pontic Greeks..
(mick, 21 June 2012 16:40)

On the contrary,it was your ancestors arriving in the Middle ages that massacred the Ancient Macedonians.

http://ceu.academia.edu/jelena...

Check page 8 to see the achievements of your ancestors.

Macedonia was only a geographic region during the Ottoman occupation with a mixed population.

http://osmanenerbe.livejournal.com/41289.html

Stop deluding yourselves.

@leonidas

Sorry the first link was a error when opened...

As for the 2nd link
Muslims= Turks/Bulgarians/Serbs/Albanians and any other muslim!
Greeks= Anyone associated with the Greek Orthodox church
Bulgarian= since 1850-1870ss Then was the establishment of the Bulgarian Patriarch and anyone associated with the Bulgarian orthodox church was a Bulgarian. The Same for the Serb and Romanian Orthodox church
That is why many Muslims Serbs named themselves Turks then Muslim and now Bosnjak..

Unfortunaly since the disbanding of the ohrid patriarchate in the late 18th C the Macedonians didn't have a own church.
And ethnicity was looked in the Ottoman empire through Religion.
and in the Austrian empire it was looked at your daily language that you use the most.

And now you can identify yourself on a different way: Just how you feel then to that nation you belong.
That was not the case 100 years ago in the Balkans!

Russian historians claim different their ancestors came from the Balkans.
In ancient times Slavs=Trachians/


Now: Since the congress of Berlin we see that Slavs suddenly came somewhere from Ukraine and conquered half Europe wiped out everyone and became the majority... Sounds ridiculous to me!

The creation of a Bulgarian Exarch by the Ottomans in 1870 was to separate the Bulgarians religiously from the Greek Patriarch and politically from Serbia.

I could write much more but 1500 character is max -.-

By propaganda and by politics we now are where we are.

Macedonia is Greek. And before some smartass say something offensive about Greece,read history! No MK or MKD with pass Greek boarderline,the end. Uncivilized leftovers of once glorious Yugoslavia.

Greece is afraid of itself.Instead of thinking how to improve citizens life,they constantly find something to complain.This is pure politics
that Greece can't get grip of themselves.They are hurting themselves and their economy.
Greek ambassador to Macedonia not long ago sent an official protest to the Macedonian government saying"The foriegn visitors dont know where they are,because they eat,look alike and drink same way as the people in Greece".I quess,she forget,the people of the Republic of Macedonia and the people of Aegean Macedonia are one and the same people-Macedonian!
You can divide people by borders,but,you can't divide them by nationality.
Greeces visitors do know the difference once they go south of Olympus like Captain P.H. Evans,on Sept.16th,1943 wrote"The Balkan region is Macedonia by nature and not Greek"He observed that the Greek language in Northern Greece was regarded as a foreign language
And that the Greeks were distrusted as something alien in the full sence of the word and viewed as foreign in Macedonia.

e

if i was greece, i'd take every Drachma.. Oops Euro I can get..

What childish nonsense...

The people that now live in FYROM/Makedonia are a mix of Slavs, Bulgars, Albanians and others and have no relation with the ancient Macedonians. It remains to be seen however to what extent the modern Greek is desendant from the ancient ones (and I think the ancient Greek would be very displeased to see what a mess the modern Greek have made of their country). Greece refused to participate in a DNA research because perhaps they may not like what they find (??). The area which is now FYROM once was part of ancient Macedonia of course. I don't think that someone can forbid others how they want to call the territory they occupy. But I also find it very silly how in FYROM/Makedonia they try to appropriate ancient history. Naming Skopje airport after Alexander the Great is a farce, not to mention that grotesque statue in Skopje.
The whole situation is of course against EU good neighbourly relations.
I have one suggestion for a name: Paeonia Macedonia. Sounds rather cool.
Kind of corresponds to the current size of FYROM/Macedonia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonia_%28kingdom%29
BTW, I love both FYROM/Macedonians and the Greek. Why can't we all just get along?

You know what, I went to Greece a few years ago...one word OVER RATED!!! I still cringe knowing that I spent alot of money in that over inflated egoistical country I got stuck in Greece for a few days to long because of their strikes before heading over to Croatia and then back to Macedonia. Next year when I go back to Europe, Greece is a definite NO NO.

But by next year they would go back to the drachma and be a developing country with no exports & they would be BEGGING for Macedonian tourists. Infact, I would speak a bit of Macedonian to Greek super market owners and they would say 'Kako si' when I told them I was Macedonian. So I would shop there everyday! Those who play 'politics' make the average Greek suffer.

(Joe A, 21 June 2012 12:14)

The country which is now FYROM in ancient times was not called Macedonia (except for a small portion by the Greek border) but Paionia. Paionia was conquered land by the Macedonias, just like Egypt and Persia were. No Ancient Macedonians did ever live in Skupi. It was never part of Macedonia down to 1204 when the name Macedonia became obsolete in the ruins of the Eastern Roman empire.

You can simply check the very website of the city of Skopje: http://www.skopje.gov.mk/EN/De...

Peter

The Greeks have no nationalistic view as far as Fyrom is concerned . They do not dream of conquering your country, or even the small portions of it that once were really parts of Ancient Macedonia. You are the ones who dream being brothers of the Macedonians, that Macedonia belongs to you - despite the fact that 91% of your country has nothing to do with historical Macedonia - and you shall "liberate" it one day, despite the fact that the real Macedonians despise you for the great evils that you incurred upon them.

"What childish nonsense"

I could not agree more. Is this all Greece has to worry about? People trying to enter Greece to spend money but Greece blocks them. As the Bible verse goes "Pride goes before destruction".. Greece may be broke but they have pride!!!

You know, you'd think that a country with as many problems as Greece has would not be antagonizing their neighbors. From what I understand, this year Greece is going to have its worst summer for tourism in modern history; because people might like the beaches but they hate the petty politics. The Germans wont go because they are sick of paying for Greece and the infantile attitude the country seems to have towards Germany's assistance.

People wont go because of the strikes, the protests, the vandalism, the crime. But it is more than that.

Greece is a country dependent on foreign help; without aid from Northern Europe, Greece would implode. Yet despite being a welfare case, Greece will bully its neighbors as much as it can.

Macedonia is the most obvious case. I am not Macedonian, but anybody who seems to have some sort of conscience would see that what Greece has been doing at NATO and the EU is a flagrant abuse of process. If a much more powerful country had the same attitude towards Greece that Greece has towards say Macedonia, Greece would be a failed third world state.

You know, you'd think that a country with as many problems as Greece has would not be antagonizing their neighbors. From what I understand, this year Greece is going to have its worst summer for tourism in modern history; because people might like the beaches but they hate the petty politics. The Germans wont go because they are sick of paying for Greece and the infantile attitude the country seems to have towards Germany's assistance.

People wont go because of the strikes, the protests, the vandalism, the crime. But it is more than that.

Greece is a country dependent on foreign help; without aid from Northern Europe, Greece would implode. Yet despite being a welfare case, Greece will bully its neighbors as much as it can.

Macedonia is the most obvious case. I am not Macedonian, but anybody who seems to have some sort of conscience would see that what Greece has been doing at NATO and the EU is a flagrant abuse of process. If a much more powerful country had the same attitude towards Greece that Greece has towards say Macedonia, Greece would be a failed third world state.

Greece itself is a ethnic mixed diverse state,
In trachia Bulgarians,Turks and Roma live and lived
In Macedonia Macedonians/Turks/Jews/Albanians and in the south Greeks.
In Thessaly vlachs
Epir/Western Greece and Around Athens Lived Albanians.

Greeks from Crete are genetically different then those from mainland greece..

But all people where orthodox and so became Greek nothing more.
When the population exchange between Greece and turkey took place, Turks (Muslims) spoke Greek language and Greeks (orthodox Christians) spoke Turkish language.

And that Macedonia is Macedonian can be proved by Turkish/Ottoman documents also of Russian chronicles.
In Macedonia you still have remote villages were traditions that Alexander the Great had are still practiced. And many stories that are told mouth to mouth from more than 2000 years ago.

To finish this: Greeks in the 19th C NEVER considered Macedonia as part of Greece!!

P.S.
Around 1100 the Byzantines wrote that the whole of Hellas was Slaviced!
Meaning there weer no more Greeks/Hellenes The language only survived in the Church and in Anatolia(Turkey).

And what Albanians did in Kosovo the Greeks did to Macedonians.. Ethnically cleansed from their homes, assimilated them and killed the rest.. And then repopulated the region with 1 million Pontic Greeks..

(Sharemarket Garden, 21 June 2012 13:39)

If Greece had so many problems, as you allege, have you ever wondered as to why thousands of Albanians,Bulgarians and Fyromians are coming to Greece looking for work?Very few people from Fyrom can afford a holiday in Greece on their meagre 250 euros monthly salary.

Tourism is only a part of the Greek economy 13% to be exact and a fall in numbers,though unwelcome,it's not going to be the end of the world.Individuals that have feelings like you do should stay away from Greece and choose another holiday destination.

@leonidas

Sorry the first link was a error when opened...

As for the 2nd link
Muslims= Turks/Bulgarians/Serbs/Albanians and any other muslim!
Greeks= Anyone associated with the Greek Orthodox church
Bulgarian= since 1850-1870ss Then was the establishment of the Bulgarian Patriarch and anyone associated with the Bulgarian orthodox church was a Bulgarian. The Same for the Serb and Romanian Orthodox church
That is why many Muslims Serbs named themselves Turks then Muslim and now Bosnjak..

Unfortunaly since the disbanding of the ohrid patriarchate in the late 18th C the Macedonians didn't have a own church.
And ethnicity was looked in the Ottoman empire through Religion.
and in the Austrian empire it was looked at your daily language that you use the most.

And now you can identify yourself on a different way: Just how you feel then to that nation you belong.
That was not the case 100 years ago in the Balkans!

Russian historians claim different their ancestors came from the Balkans.
In ancient times Slavs=Trachians/


Now: Since the congress of Berlin we see that Slavs suddenly came somewhere from Ukraine and conquered half Europe wiped out everyone and became the majority... Sounds ridiculous to me!

The creation of a Bulgarian Exarch by the Ottomans in 1870 was to separate the Bulgarians religiously from the Greek Patriarch and politically from Serbia.

I could write much more but 1500 character is max -.-

By propaganda and by politics we now are where we are.

And what Albanians did in Kosovo the Greeks did to Macedonians.. Ethnically cleansed from their homes, assimilated them and killed the rest.. And then repopulated the region with 1 million Pontic Greeks..
(mick, 21 June 2012 16:40)

On the contrary,it was your ancestors arriving in the Middle ages that massacred the Ancient Macedonians.

http://ceu.academia.edu/jelena...

Check page 8 to see the achievements of your ancestors.

Macedonia was only a geographic region during the Ottoman occupation with a mixed population.

http://osmanenerbe.livejournal.com/41289.html

Stop deluding yourselves.

why isn't this the only logical thing to do? you are in dispute with a country, yet you visit it , with plates which are not valid in the country you are going to...? To me it sounds more like an event made in purpose to create ''the incident'' and become/play the victim