EC: Genocide did take place in Srebrenica

I wonder if the EU also holds the position that crimes against humanity were committed against citizens of Serbia when NATO unleased an illegal war to justify its existence.

The word "genocide" has been totally misused in the Srebrenica debacle.Why were the women and children allowed to leave and not shot with the menfolk?. There is no ethnic issue here, the "muslims" are ethnic serbs or croats who converted to islam during the Ottoman occupation , nothing more, nothing less. There is no such thing as" Bozniaks " this is an American fabrication designed to futher divide the peoples of Bosnia into apartheid pockets.The war should not have happened, but it did and it's time to move on. The only losers are the mothers of all the dead of the former Yugoslavia they should turn on their political masters who instigated the murder of their children and literally still have blood on their hands be they muslim slavs or christians." Zajedno smo jace" The Iranians say do not sit at the table with the Great Satan, they are right.

Here is an issue in simple terms.

Genocide is a denial of the right of existence of national, racial, ethnic or religious group.
UN Genocide Convention mentions "not only killings but any other measure taken against national, racial, ethnic or religious group with clear intent of destruction of that group".

Mass sterilization of population would be an act of genocide, for example, as it would lead to destruction of the group.

In a judgement of general Krstic Tribunal concluded that there was a genocide.

Serb forces "targeted for extinction the 40,000 Bosnian Muslims living in Srebrenica." - Judge Theodor Meron.

Others disagree, pointing out that they allowed women and children to leave, precisely the population that will assure survival and reproduction of ethnic group.
In fact, recent data shows Srebrenica women having 2.34 children on average, while Bosnian average is 2.15.
"Shouldn't one who has intent to destroy, make sure women and children are destroyed too?" they will say.
To them this was not a genocide, but CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY if we consider those men civilians, or WAR CRIME if we consider them enemy combatants who were entitled to Prisoner of War status.

I guess, everyone can judge for themselves, and agree with Judge Theodor Meron or not.
Key question being - What was the intent?
Complete extinction and destruction of Bosnian Muslims (national, racial, ethnic or religious group)in Srebrenica or not.

She said that a genocide and a crime against humanity did occur in Serbrenica, as confirmed by relevant judgments of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia and the International Court of Justice.
--
According to a Malaysian court, George Bush and Tony Blair committed genocide. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZxa0-IXl_U

George Bush can only travel to a very select number of countries because he could be arrested for war crimes. Check -> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/05/us-bush-torture-idUSTRE7141CU20110205

"I think George Bush's world is a very small place at the moment, he may enjoy some kind of impunity in the United States, but other countries will not treat him so indulgently."

So my question is, if so many countries would arrest Bush for his war crimes. If a court of law has found Bush and Blair guilty of genocide, why hasn't the International Court of Justice *at the very least* started an investigation into war crimes committed by the US, UK, NATO and so on?

Malaysia and other countries have requested it. I mean, how long does it take to investigate organ trafficking claims against Thaci but in Syria, they want to pin the Houla massacre on Assad without a completed investigation. The Dasht-i-Leili "genocide" involving US forces and 8000 Afghan prisoners is all but forgotten. Check -> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/opinion/14tue2.html

The "international" (NATO) courts simply cannot be trusted.

He cannot get away with such rediculous statements and not be made to look like a bumbling idiot.
(Gen Wesley Clark, 4 June 2012 16:41)
--
Hey Wes, where have you been? I really like this speech you gave stating that it was always the plan for the US to attack Syria, Libya, Iraq and Iran. So glad you it was recorded. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY2DKzastu8

Oh, and lets not forget all of these US soldiers revealing the crimes that are being committed. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWUQ_N_vHc0

So essentially, anything coming from these "international" (a.k.a NATO) courts cannot be trusted. Genocide was not committed in Srebrenica against Muslims but maybe against Serbs by the Muslim Nassar Oric.

Not only in Srebrenica. It has happend in Kosovo too.

Where is the verdict that genocide happened in Kosovo?

Not only in Srebrenica. It has happend in Kosovo too.

Serbs, denial of a crime is double crime. You should apologise for Milosevics crimes. Protecting the man who has commited genocide is wrong idea. It is not mentality of 21st century, it is not mentality of civilisation and it is not mentality of European citizens!

Turkish politicians still deny the genocide committed against Armenians after 100 years. Some politicians even deny the holocaust.
(Comm. Parrisson, 4 June 2012 17:39)
--
In fact, many politicians and governments deny genocide in Armenia.

So some deny the holocaust and some (actually quite a lot) deny the Armenian genocide. Only 21 states recognise it.

Why haven't say, the US and UK recognised the Armenian genocide? Does it have something to do with reality or politics? Because if it's politics (as it is) then we can easily see that the EC's stance on Srebrenica is political and not based on reality.

Even Isreal has come out and denied that Srebrenica is a genocide.

Hansen told a press conference in her comment "on a recent statement by Nikolić denying genocide in Srebrenica", reported Tanjug.

Thats a good one Hansen,the EU along with their Masters have invented History,i have not seem any evidence in all these years that 7000 people were butchered in srebcenica,sure people died many i think were Bosnian Muslim forces trying to get through serb lines,i believe at one time there were several thousand of those forces using the town as a base to attack serb villages in the area,one of the maniacs was Naser Oric who ran away before the Bosnian serb forces got there,so lets cut the Bull about Genocide,defnition....the deliberate extermination of a people or Nation.

The European Court can shove it. The very ideal of European Justice is an oxymoron.

A crime against humanity yes indeed. I thought genocide though had to go beyond just killing people you were fighting against and had to be a determined, systemetic effort to wipe out all of that ehnicity, like in WWII. I must be wrong though.
I think since WWII though the term genocide has been used when it really isn't warranted. Not trying to downplay atrocities because Srebenica was absolutely terrible, but also a cmap used as a refugee by someone on the opposite side. ANyway, I think it is pretty murky still and I am sure emotions will not see at as murky but clear on one side or the other, like the EC which simly can not say it is a gray area becaus eof the number of deaths.

War is murder and all soldiers are murderers. Srebrenica was a terrible crime, so were all the things that proceeded it. All religions, dogmas and philosophies are false-everything changes. Nothing is the same. I went to Bosnia recently and I was near srebrenica. The people who live in the villages have moved on-they till thier fields, bring in the crops, watch thier kids get married. They have moved on for the sake of future generations. A few politicians keep the hate going. They have self interest in mind. But the people in the villages burden themselves to the task at hand. The task at hand is life. simple, peacefull and ever changing. Its time to move on. Lets never wage war again-thats all that really matters.F*CK POLITICS!

You can deny it as much as you want. The Bosnians have the court of law behind them to support the fact that it was an act of "genocide". This isn't open to debate, maybe amongst yourselves, but the ICJ has ruled it genocide. Also, The EU will kindly and continually remind Serbia of this fact as well as the rest of the world. Serbia doesn't make their own rules, but they must follow the rules and laws of the world. So sit there and ask as many questions as you want....it isn't going to change the FACT that the ICJ ruled the grizzly murders as a genocide. People that deny this sound just as moronic as people that deny the Holocaust. You only expose your own ignorance when you question what happened. I'm glad the EU is slapping Nikolic so soon in the game. He cannot get away with such rediculous statements and not be made to look like a bumbling idiot.

Nikolic with his statemendts is helping everyone but serbs.
Go ahead Nikolic,all nonserbs are rooting for you.
Next time claim that serbs didnt do anything wrong during 1990s,all nonserbs in former YU were killed by aliens.
Good start Nikolic!
We love you!

Some real fools here. Some people need to be educated I think, I must ask the question as to why would a group of people planning a genocide spare the lives of women, children and the elderly? What we are left with here are males of military age. In an act of genocide the ones committing it do not separate such groups, rather they kill everyone. This is the very reason why it cannot be called a genocide, just absurd.

Also it is very dangerous to assume that because the west decides that it was a genocide then nobody can question that. By trying to criminalise or demonise denying it rather shows a very strong weakness on the side of the ones adamant that it was a genocide. Who is to say it is an absolute truth and cannot be questioned? That is a very bold statement indeed. It isn't the Serbs who are rewriting history, rather the west and the muslims, and its a dangerous game you shouldn't play.

IMO there was no Genocide, think about it?
Women,children and elderly were allowed to go, furthermore after the war everyone could go back! And I think the Muslims in Srebrenica are at least 40% and to this day people still live together.

It was a war and if you carry a gun, you can expect that you will be shot, it was your choice in the first place to participate in the war. the survivors can whine but that's all. Crimes were committed by all sides and lets not forget the roll of Naser Oric in this story.


So if there was genocide.. everyone would have been exterminated and Srebrenica would now have been 99% Orthodox Serbian!
That is clearly not the case.

Bastards
But lets not forget the real genocide here committed against Serbs in WW2, all horrible crimes! It will only makes you sick if you just read what happened.
I suggest that those people do a check up what genocide really is.

Muslim women from Srebrenica having much higher birth number than serbian people, who have highest abortion rate in europe or the world.
In 2 or 3 generation, serbian people small minortiy in Bosnia and Hercegovina. Disappearance of serbian people with genocide history. In interest of all balkans, we will live in peace together without serbian problem.

Sretan hit the nail on the head. The courts do not even use the same definition as they did with Srebrenica specifically because of how broad the definition was. Srebrenica was not disarmed, therefore it is a war crime and a crime against humanity, not genocide. Combatants and innocents were killed and the proportions do not matter, as the summary execution of both is illegal. What keeps this from bring a genocidal act is the sparing of women and children. In no other act of genocide is gender or age a factor in exemption. Then there is the issue of scale. Srebrenica's victims constitute a very small percentage of the Bosniak population and in no way threatened its survival. I know that this position pisses off a lot of Bosniaks, but as a historian I cannot responsibly define Srebrenica as a genocide. But hey, I'm not the court, so I don't matter.

It wasn't genocide. No way.

According to a Malaysian court, George Bush and Tony Blair committed genocide. Check -> [link]
(Zoran, 4 June 2012 17:49)
--
Interesting how that link above just stopped working. Here is an alternative. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aQxh0Zu4y0

Bill

The west are not warmongers???

Who the bloody hell starts wars just to replace a government the west does not happen to like, every damn war is started by the west to create instability just like today in Syria so your statement is sheer fantasy.

You live in cloud cuckoo land. Dig a bit deeper and find out for yourself what the CIA MI5 and MOSSAD are up to in Syria right now.

Your statement beggars belief.

If Yugoslavia wasnt created, whole Bosnia would be anexed by Serbia after WW2 and probably half of Croatia, as a war trophy, because of serbians that were living there, albanians in Kosovo wouldnt have right to have their own language. Tito gave autonomy to both albanians in Kosovo and also Hungarians in Vojvodina (Vojvodina- war trophy from ww1). Tito executed cetnicks and he created Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro.. all those ''countries'' were weak while Serbia had suport from England, France, Russia..
France has monument in Serbia, but its interesting that Kosovo, Croatia, Bosnia dont have monuments to Tito...

Serbia, I strongly suggest you watch what you say, this is not a joke. When NATO peacefully bombed Serbia you sure did whine about it. We will not, I repeat we will not allow this nonsense any longer. We will make sure Serbia does not repeat this again. I am ashamed to call Serbians Christians. You attacked our catholic Croatian brothers. You burned their churches their birth and death records. We know it all, its all documented and it will remain that way. Genocide did take place in Srebrenica. I strongly suggest Serbs repent for their wrong and unjust crimes. You have disgraced Christianity. Stay put, or we will make sure you will. Russia is out of your option as they have been in 1999.

Killing enemy soldiers is "genocide" when those soldiers were tools of the U.S./NATO. Fact is they are using those who died throughout the war and in areas away from Srebrenica, like Zepa, which were Muslim army bases. The ICTY court didn't even have autopsy evidence. The case was decided on PERJURY (the Croat Erdemovic, for example) and not real and quality evidence.

Courts do not create history. If a court says that something happened and it never happened, then time will make the court look like a fool. The past is real and the more you lie about it, the more likely it is the truth will emerge. There was no genocide committed anywhere during the breakup of Yugoslavia. Not against the Serbs because the Serbs were not going to let that happen and not against the Serb's aggressors because they died with weapons in their hands

Turkish politicians still deny the genocide committed against Armenians after 100 years. Some politicians even deny the holocaust.

I hope it won't take that long for some Serbian politicians to face the truth and admit the crimes committed and 10.000s of people killed by Serbian army and paramilitaries.

naaa....I don't think it did either. In all reality, I don't really care, as the west is telling Serbs what they need to care about and what they don't need to care about. The murder of our citizens is acceptable, yet the death of "innocent" muslim soldiers who murdered Serbs needs to be memorialized...makes me sick.

Genocide..what a misused term in today's world. It use to mean something such as what the Croats did to Serbs in WW2, or what the Germans did to the Russians, Jews and Poles..That was Genocide. How this measures up to that stick of Nazi Germany is absurd. It doesn't, yet the west keeps pushing this lie until the lie becomes truth.

Zoran tries very hard to change the subject.

If murdering 7000 un-armed men and boys (yes boys) isn't genocide, then what is?
(T, 5 June 2012 09:21)
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In the case of Srebrenica, many of the soldiers (up to 5000) were armed and fighting in the surrounding forest.

In the case of Dasht-i-Leili, involving US troops in Afghanistan, the 8000 prisoners were all unarmed and murdered so according to your interpretation, this was a genocide.

Be kind to each other

the comments here just show once more that Serbia is not part of the democratic West, and has no place in the EU. We have a complety differnt value system, think differently, aren't warmongers, face our past, question things, and none of that is happeneing in Serbia. It even slips further back into the evil national Milosovic past. The comments posted here show the serb society in a real, real bad light, and you might as well go with Putin. You have much more in common with the Russians than with the west, but than with all consequences. No more support and money from the EU, and than u will see how fast the serbian ship hits ground.

If murdering 7000 un-armed men and boys (yes boys) isn't genocide, then what is?
(T)

This is a war crime, most close to murdering of prisoners of war. Unfortunately all sides often killed their prisoners of war (if there was no opportunity to exchange them).

A lot of crimes similar to Srebrenica (but of little bit lesser scale) happened during Bosnian war

Mr. Nikolic, whose education stopped with his high school matura, has no training in international law and is not qualified to make such statements. Genocide is a technical legal concept; those who really want to know what it is can start by carefully reading the Introduction of the Definition of Genocide, which gives a detailed explanation of what genocide means:

http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/int_law/dog/index.php

The definition comes from the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, adopted in 1948 by the UN General Assembly.

If you want to be taken seriously, study it before making rash statements.

Honestly i dont blame most of the serbs being misled to this matter because at the time of the war in ex yugoslavia people in serbia used to watch kocka- kockica and listen to the serbian harmonically opera and every tv-state at the time they didnt show a damn think what is going one in the ground, and there except soldier's there were disgusted animals with the devil in top of there heads where killing innocent people ,because a trained soldiers do NOT KILL BABY'S ...tacka.

The EC also claims that it is based on the rule of law. On paper that is.

The key question is the question about the motivation for the massacre. If the motivation was destruction of Srebrenica muslims, there can be basis for genocide. If motivation is something else (killing of POVs, revenge), then there is no basis for genocide ruling.

Many similar massacres have occured (Bleiburg massacre, Katyn massacre, Kragujevac massacre) in which similar number of people have been killed. However, since the motivation was revenge/killing of POVs, these cases are not considered a genocide.

The Srebrenica killings were revenge killings for crimes of Naser Oric's troops around Srebrenica in which around 3500 Serbs died. No massacre happened in the case of Zepa, a nearby muslim enclave also overrun by the Serbs at the same time. Srebrenica was also a killing of POVs just like in the case of Ovcara (although at more than 10 times greater scale).

The question of number of victims was not the key factor in the ruling, and by the court's interpretation of "destruction in part" a number of other massacres in the Balkan wars of the 90s can be considered a genocide.

For instance, in Gospic in 1991, around 100 Serbian civilians have been killed in a short timespan. There is a testimony by Croat soldier that order was to "cleanse" Gospic of Serbs, and hence the motivation for Gospic massacre is destruction of Serbian populace on the Gospic territory - why is this not considered a genocide? By the same logic, this should also be qualified as genocide.

If murdering 7000 un-armed men and boys (yes boys) isn't genocide, then what is?
Oric too was a murderer but not genocidal. Maybe, had he been given the chance he too would probably have gone as far as Mladic did. Lets not speculate but focus on facts.
War is ugly and brings out the worst of people. Lets not forget this and lets not deny what happened at Srebrenica DID happen and should never be repeated again, ever!

For instance, in Gospic in 1991, around 100 Serbian civilians have been killed in a short timespan. There is a testimony by Croat soldier that order was to "cleanse" Gospic of Serbs, and hence the motivation for Gospic massacre is destruction of Serbian populace on the Gospic territory - why is this not considered a genocide?
(Mike Petrov, 6 June 2012 02:14)

Because the people who run the kangaroo court show trials in the Hague are sitting in Germany and Washington, and are a combination of neocon and neoliberal war criminals who are very anti-Serb. Serbia is the only independent mindend country in the region, and these 'bosses' can't have that, they demand full obedience, and if you dare stand up to them they will try to destroy you one way or another. Just look at their actions throughout the wars of the 90's and you will see just how anti-Serb they are. They deny real genocide against Serbs and they accuse Serbs of fabricated genocides at the same time. It is a Josef Goebbels style western media controlled brainwashing propoganda fest that's been going on, because these people (Madeline Albright, Rudolf Scharping, Wesley Clark, Tony Bliar, Bill Clintonliar, Hans Ditrich-Genscher, James Rubin..) are scared to death of the truth getting out. The truth is what we need ot hammer them with, because the truth is on Serbia's side. Once the world knows the truth, they will demand that these people and their friends be the ones sitting behind bars in the Hague.
Cheers!!

Such a great start for Nikolic. In two weeks he has managed to raise alarms everywhere. "F*** you" attitude is next, don't miss it. Great job President of all Serbs.

One thing that strikes as weird though, is why Dodik favors Tadic over Nikolic? That is really strange.

Not only in Srebrenica. It has happend in Kosovo too.

Serbs, denial of a crime is double crime. You should apologise for Milosevics crimes. Protecting the man who has commited genocide is wrong idea. It is not mentality of 21st century, it is not mentality of civilisation and it is not mentality of European citizens!

Muslim women from Srebrenica having much higher birth number than serbian people, who have highest abortion rate in europe or the world.
In 2 or 3 generation, serbian people small minortiy in Bosnia and Hercegovina. Disappearance of serbian people with genocide history. In interest of all balkans, we will live in peace together without serbian problem.

You can deny it as much as you want. The Bosnians have the court of law behind them to support the fact that it was an act of "genocide". This isn't open to debate, maybe amongst yourselves, but the ICJ has ruled it genocide. Also, The EU will kindly and continually remind Serbia of this fact as well as the rest of the world. Serbia doesn't make their own rules, but they must follow the rules and laws of the world. So sit there and ask as many questions as you want....it isn't going to change the FACT that the ICJ ruled the grizzly murders as a genocide. People that deny this sound just as moronic as people that deny the Holocaust. You only expose your own ignorance when you question what happened. I'm glad the EU is slapping Nikolic so soon in the game. He cannot get away with such rediculous statements and not be made to look like a bumbling idiot.

Nikolic with his statemendts is helping everyone but serbs.
Go ahead Nikolic,all nonserbs are rooting for you.
Next time claim that serbs didnt do anything wrong during 1990s,all nonserbs in former YU were killed by aliens.
Good start Nikolic!
We love you!

Turkish politicians still deny the genocide committed against Armenians after 100 years. Some politicians even deny the holocaust.

I hope it won't take that long for some Serbian politicians to face the truth and admit the crimes committed and 10.000s of people killed by Serbian army and paramilitaries.

I wonder if the EU also holds the position that crimes against humanity were committed against citizens of Serbia when NATO unleased an illegal war to justify its existence.

IMO there was no Genocide, think about it?
Women,children and elderly were allowed to go, furthermore after the war everyone could go back! And I think the Muslims in Srebrenica are at least 40% and to this day people still live together.

It was a war and if you carry a gun, you can expect that you will be shot, it was your choice in the first place to participate in the war. the survivors can whine but that's all. Crimes were committed by all sides and lets not forget the roll of Naser Oric in this story.


So if there was genocide.. everyone would have been exterminated and Srebrenica would now have been 99% Orthodox Serbian!
That is clearly not the case.

Bastards
But lets not forget the real genocide here committed against Serbs in WW2, all horrible crimes! It will only makes you sick if you just read what happened.
I suggest that those people do a check up what genocide really is.

Serbia, I strongly suggest you watch what you say, this is not a joke. When NATO peacefully bombed Serbia you sure did whine about it. We will not, I repeat we will not allow this nonsense any longer. We will make sure Serbia does not repeat this again. I am ashamed to call Serbians Christians. You attacked our catholic Croatian brothers. You burned their churches their birth and death records. We know it all, its all documented and it will remain that way. Genocide did take place in Srebrenica. I strongly suggest Serbs repent for their wrong and unjust crimes. You have disgraced Christianity. Stay put, or we will make sure you will. Russia is out of your option as they have been in 1999.

It wasn't genocide. No way.

Not only in Srebrenica. It has happend in Kosovo too.

Where is the verdict that genocide happened in Kosovo?

Zoran tries very hard to change the subject.

the comments here just show once more that Serbia is not part of the democratic West, and has no place in the EU. We have a complety differnt value system, think differently, aren't warmongers, face our past, question things, and none of that is happeneing in Serbia. It even slips further back into the evil national Milosovic past. The comments posted here show the serb society in a real, real bad light, and you might as well go with Putin. You have much more in common with the Russians than with the west, but than with all consequences. No more support and money from the EU, and than u will see how fast the serbian ship hits ground.

Hansen told a press conference in her comment "on a recent statement by Nikolić denying genocide in Srebrenica", reported Tanjug.

Thats a good one Hansen,the EU along with their Masters have invented History,i have not seem any evidence in all these years that 7000 people were butchered in srebcenica,sure people died many i think were Bosnian Muslim forces trying to get through serb lines,i believe at one time there were several thousand of those forces using the town as a base to attack serb villages in the area,one of the maniacs was Naser Oric who ran away before the Bosnian serb forces got there,so lets cut the Bull about Genocide,defnition....the deliberate extermination of a people or Nation.

The word "genocide" has been totally misused in the Srebrenica debacle.Why were the women and children allowed to leave and not shot with the menfolk?. There is no ethnic issue here, the "muslims" are ethnic serbs or croats who converted to islam during the Ottoman occupation , nothing more, nothing less. There is no such thing as" Bozniaks " this is an American fabrication designed to futher divide the peoples of Bosnia into apartheid pockets.The war should not have happened, but it did and it's time to move on. The only losers are the mothers of all the dead of the former Yugoslavia they should turn on their political masters who instigated the murder of their children and literally still have blood on their hands be they muslim slavs or christians." Zajedno smo jace" The Iranians say do not sit at the table with the Great Satan, they are right.

Courts do not create history. If a court says that something happened and it never happened, then time will make the court look like a fool. The past is real and the more you lie about it, the more likely it is the truth will emerge. There was no genocide committed anywhere during the breakup of Yugoslavia. Not against the Serbs because the Serbs were not going to let that happen and not against the Serb's aggressors because they died with weapons in their hands

He cannot get away with such rediculous statements and not be made to look like a bumbling idiot.
(Gen Wesley Clark, 4 June 2012 16:41)
--
Hey Wes, where have you been? I really like this speech you gave stating that it was always the plan for the US to attack Syria, Libya, Iraq and Iran. So glad you it was recorded. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY2DKzastu8

Oh, and lets not forget all of these US soldiers revealing the crimes that are being committed. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWUQ_N_vHc0

So essentially, anything coming from these "international" (a.k.a NATO) courts cannot be trusted. Genocide was not committed in Srebrenica against Muslims but maybe against Serbs by the Muslim Nassar Oric.

Here is an issue in simple terms.

Genocide is a denial of the right of existence of national, racial, ethnic or religious group.
UN Genocide Convention mentions "not only killings but any other measure taken against national, racial, ethnic or religious group with clear intent of destruction of that group".

Mass sterilization of population would be an act of genocide, for example, as it would lead to destruction of the group.

In a judgement of general Krstic Tribunal concluded that there was a genocide.

Serb forces "targeted for extinction the 40,000 Bosnian Muslims living in Srebrenica." - Judge Theodor Meron.

Others disagree, pointing out that they allowed women and children to leave, precisely the population that will assure survival and reproduction of ethnic group.
In fact, recent data shows Srebrenica women having 2.34 children on average, while Bosnian average is 2.15.
"Shouldn't one who has intent to destroy, make sure women and children are destroyed too?" they will say.
To them this was not a genocide, but CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY if we consider those men civilians, or WAR CRIME if we consider them enemy combatants who were entitled to Prisoner of War status.

I guess, everyone can judge for themselves, and agree with Judge Theodor Meron or not.
Key question being - What was the intent?
Complete extinction and destruction of Bosnian Muslims (national, racial, ethnic or religious group)in Srebrenica or not.

She said that a genocide and a crime against humanity did occur in Serbrenica, as confirmed by relevant judgments of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia and the International Court of Justice.
--
According to a Malaysian court, George Bush and Tony Blair committed genocide. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZxa0-IXl_U

George Bush can only travel to a very select number of countries because he could be arrested for war crimes. Check -> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/05/us-bush-torture-idUSTRE7141CU20110205

"I think George Bush's world is a very small place at the moment, he may enjoy some kind of impunity in the United States, but other countries will not treat him so indulgently."

So my question is, if so many countries would arrest Bush for his war crimes. If a court of law has found Bush and Blair guilty of genocide, why hasn't the International Court of Justice *at the very least* started an investigation into war crimes committed by the US, UK, NATO and so on?

Malaysia and other countries have requested it. I mean, how long does it take to investigate organ trafficking claims against Thaci but in Syria, they want to pin the Houla massacre on Assad without a completed investigation. The Dasht-i-Leili "genocide" involving US forces and 8000 Afghan prisoners is all but forgotten. Check -> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/opinion/14tue2.html

The "international" (NATO) courts simply cannot be trusted.

The European Court can shove it. The very ideal of European Justice is an oxymoron.

Turkish politicians still deny the genocide committed against Armenians after 100 years. Some politicians even deny the holocaust.
(Comm. Parrisson, 4 June 2012 17:39)
--
In fact, many politicians and governments deny genocide in Armenia.

So some deny the holocaust and some (actually quite a lot) deny the Armenian genocide. Only 21 states recognise it.

Why haven't say, the US and UK recognised the Armenian genocide? Does it have something to do with reality or politics? Because if it's politics (as it is) then we can easily see that the EC's stance on Srebrenica is political and not based on reality.

Even Isreal has come out and denied that Srebrenica is a genocide.

Killing enemy soldiers is "genocide" when those soldiers were tools of the U.S./NATO. Fact is they are using those who died throughout the war and in areas away from Srebrenica, like Zepa, which were Muslim army bases. The ICTY court didn't even have autopsy evidence. The case was decided on PERJURY (the Croat Erdemovic, for example) and not real and quality evidence.

A crime against humanity yes indeed. I thought genocide though had to go beyond just killing people you were fighting against and had to be a determined, systemetic effort to wipe out all of that ehnicity, like in WWII. I must be wrong though.
I think since WWII though the term genocide has been used when it really isn't warranted. Not trying to downplay atrocities because Srebenica was absolutely terrible, but also a cmap used as a refugee by someone on the opposite side. ANyway, I think it is pretty murky still and I am sure emotions will not see at as murky but clear on one side or the other, like the EC which simly can not say it is a gray area becaus eof the number of deaths.

Honestly i dont blame most of the serbs being misled to this matter because at the time of the war in ex yugoslavia people in serbia used to watch kocka- kockica and listen to the serbian harmonically opera and every tv-state at the time they didnt show a damn think what is going one in the ground, and there except soldier's there were disgusted animals with the devil in top of there heads where killing innocent people ,because a trained soldiers do NOT KILL BABY'S ...tacka.

If murdering 7000 un-armed men and boys (yes boys) isn't genocide, then what is?
Oric too was a murderer but not genocidal. Maybe, had he been given the chance he too would probably have gone as far as Mladic did. Lets not speculate but focus on facts.
War is ugly and brings out the worst of people. Lets not forget this and lets not deny what happened at Srebrenica DID happen and should never be repeated again, ever!

Mr. Nikolic, whose education stopped with his high school matura, has no training in international law and is not qualified to make such statements. Genocide is a technical legal concept; those who really want to know what it is can start by carefully reading the Introduction of the Definition of Genocide, which gives a detailed explanation of what genocide means:

http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/int_law/dog/index.php

The definition comes from the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, adopted in 1948 by the UN General Assembly.

If you want to be taken seriously, study it before making rash statements.

According to a Malaysian court, George Bush and Tony Blair committed genocide. Check -> [link]
(Zoran, 4 June 2012 17:49)
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Interesting how that link above just stopped working. Here is an alternative. Check -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aQxh0Zu4y0

Some real fools here. Some people need to be educated I think, I must ask the question as to why would a group of people planning a genocide spare the lives of women, children and the elderly? What we are left with here are males of military age. In an act of genocide the ones committing it do not separate such groups, rather they kill everyone. This is the very reason why it cannot be called a genocide, just absurd.

Also it is very dangerous to assume that because the west decides that it was a genocide then nobody can question that. By trying to criminalise or demonise denying it rather shows a very strong weakness on the side of the ones adamant that it was a genocide. Who is to say it is an absolute truth and cannot be questioned? That is a very bold statement indeed. It isn't the Serbs who are rewriting history, rather the west and the muslims, and its a dangerous game you shouldn't play.

naaa....I don't think it did either. In all reality, I don't really care, as the west is telling Serbs what they need to care about and what they don't need to care about. The murder of our citizens is acceptable, yet the death of "innocent" muslim soldiers who murdered Serbs needs to be memorialized...makes me sick.

Genocide..what a misused term in today's world. It use to mean something such as what the Croats did to Serbs in WW2, or what the Germans did to the Russians, Jews and Poles..That was Genocide. How this measures up to that stick of Nazi Germany is absurd. It doesn't, yet the west keeps pushing this lie until the lie becomes truth.

War is murder and all soldiers are murderers. Srebrenica was a terrible crime, so were all the things that proceeded it. All religions, dogmas and philosophies are false-everything changes. Nothing is the same. I went to Bosnia recently and I was near srebrenica. The people who live in the villages have moved on-they till thier fields, bring in the crops, watch thier kids get married. They have moved on for the sake of future generations. A few politicians keep the hate going. They have self interest in mind. But the people in the villages burden themselves to the task at hand. The task at hand is life. simple, peacefull and ever changing. Its time to move on. Lets never wage war again-thats all that really matters.F*CK POLITICS!

If murdering 7000 un-armed men and boys (yes boys) isn't genocide, then what is?
(T, 5 June 2012 09:21)
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In the case of Srebrenica, many of the soldiers (up to 5000) were armed and fighting in the surrounding forest.

In the case of Dasht-i-Leili, involving US troops in Afghanistan, the 8000 prisoners were all unarmed and murdered so according to your interpretation, this was a genocide.

Sretan hit the nail on the head. The courts do not even use the same definition as they did with Srebrenica specifically because of how broad the definition was. Srebrenica was not disarmed, therefore it is a war crime and a crime against humanity, not genocide. Combatants and innocents were killed and the proportions do not matter, as the summary execution of both is illegal. What keeps this from bring a genocidal act is the sparing of women and children. In no other act of genocide is gender or age a factor in exemption. Then there is the issue of scale. Srebrenica's victims constitute a very small percentage of the Bosniak population and in no way threatened its survival. I know that this position pisses off a lot of Bosniaks, but as a historian I cannot responsibly define Srebrenica as a genocide. But hey, I'm not the court, so I don't matter.

If Yugoslavia wasnt created, whole Bosnia would be anexed by Serbia after WW2 and probably half of Croatia, as a war trophy, because of serbians that were living there, albanians in Kosovo wouldnt have right to have their own language. Tito gave autonomy to both albanians in Kosovo and also Hungarians in Vojvodina (Vojvodina- war trophy from ww1). Tito executed cetnicks and he created Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro.. all those ''countries'' were weak while Serbia had suport from England, France, Russia..
France has monument in Serbia, but its interesting that Kosovo, Croatia, Bosnia dont have monuments to Tito...

If murdering 7000 un-armed men and boys (yes boys) isn't genocide, then what is?
(T)

This is a war crime, most close to murdering of prisoners of war. Unfortunately all sides often killed their prisoners of war (if there was no opportunity to exchange them).

A lot of crimes similar to Srebrenica (but of little bit lesser scale) happened during Bosnian war

Bill

The west are not warmongers???

Who the bloody hell starts wars just to replace a government the west does not happen to like, every damn war is started by the west to create instability just like today in Syria so your statement is sheer fantasy.

You live in cloud cuckoo land. Dig a bit deeper and find out for yourself what the CIA MI5 and MOSSAD are up to in Syria right now.

Your statement beggars belief.

For instance, in Gospic in 1991, around 100 Serbian civilians have been killed in a short timespan. There is a testimony by Croat soldier that order was to "cleanse" Gospic of Serbs, and hence the motivation for Gospic massacre is destruction of Serbian populace on the Gospic territory - why is this not considered a genocide?
(Mike Petrov, 6 June 2012 02:14)

Because the people who run the kangaroo court show trials in the Hague are sitting in Germany and Washington, and are a combination of neocon and neoliberal war criminals who are very anti-Serb. Serbia is the only independent mindend country in the region, and these 'bosses' can't have that, they demand full obedience, and if you dare stand up to them they will try to destroy you one way or another. Just look at their actions throughout the wars of the 90's and you will see just how anti-Serb they are. They deny real genocide against Serbs and they accuse Serbs of fabricated genocides at the same time. It is a Josef Goebbels style western media controlled brainwashing propoganda fest that's been going on, because these people (Madeline Albright, Rudolf Scharping, Wesley Clark, Tony Bliar, Bill Clintonliar, Hans Ditrich-Genscher, James Rubin..) are scared to death of the truth getting out. The truth is what we need ot hammer them with, because the truth is on Serbia's side. Once the world knows the truth, they will demand that these people and their friends be the ones sitting behind bars in the Hague.
Cheers!!

Such a great start for Nikolic. In two weeks he has managed to raise alarms everywhere. "F*** you" attitude is next, don't miss it. Great job President of all Serbs.

One thing that strikes as weird though, is why Dodik favors Tadic over Nikolic? That is really strange.

Be kind to each other

The EC also claims that it is based on the rule of law. On paper that is.

The key question is the question about the motivation for the massacre. If the motivation was destruction of Srebrenica muslims, there can be basis for genocide. If motivation is something else (killing of POVs, revenge), then there is no basis for genocide ruling.

Many similar massacres have occured (Bleiburg massacre, Katyn massacre, Kragujevac massacre) in which similar number of people have been killed. However, since the motivation was revenge/killing of POVs, these cases are not considered a genocide.

The Srebrenica killings were revenge killings for crimes of Naser Oric's troops around Srebrenica in which around 3500 Serbs died. No massacre happened in the case of Zepa, a nearby muslim enclave also overrun by the Serbs at the same time. Srebrenica was also a killing of POVs just like in the case of Ovcara (although at more than 10 times greater scale).

The question of number of victims was not the key factor in the ruling, and by the court's interpretation of "destruction in part" a number of other massacres in the Balkan wars of the 90s can be considered a genocide.

For instance, in Gospic in 1991, around 100 Serbian civilians have been killed in a short timespan. There is a testimony by Croat soldier that order was to "cleanse" Gospic of Serbs, and hence the motivation for Gospic massacre is destruction of Serbian populace on the Gospic territory - why is this not considered a genocide? By the same logic, this should also be qualified as genocide.