Serbia's newly elected president travels to Moscow

NO DOUBT TO RECEIVE ZE ORDERS.
(Janez Beograd, 23 May 2012 11:15)

And when former president (boy that feels great to say) Tadic sees Merkel like 4 times a year I am sure those are just friendly conversations. Its hilarious Europhiles in Serbia will take any orders coming from Berlin but Russia can ONLY extend a hand to Serbia if they are getting no interest in it at all.

Its called mutual interests, Russia could use a staunch ally in the Balkans and Serbia could use powerful backing (as Russia already has done on the in the UN) on the world stage. What is so wrong for both sides to mutually have an interest to work with each other.

With Russia we will be exporting our products, with the EU we will importing food from Germany despite the fact Serbia can grow anything it wants in any quantity it wants. No this isn't some rabid nationalist talking, I am basing this off pure economics and geo-politics.

The EU=dead end.

Better than traveling to Washington to receive ze orders.

Russia is a reliable partner of Serbia. Serbia should be more close to Russia rather than the EUROcrats and USA.

Back in the 80s, Serbs had no problem with either the West or the East. We liked the US, we wanted to become an EU member and we liked the Russians.

When considering that Russia helped us break free of the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians and NAZIs along with Britian and the US, we were in good shape.

Now, things started going bad with the reunification of Germany. That was the turning point when old German agendas started taking priority. With the premature recognition of Croatia, supported by ultra-nationalist money coming from the West, it was only natural that we were reminded of WWII history.

Even though the US and UK were opposed to this initially, they lost Serbia when they sided with the Germans in their support and started blaming Serbs for all of the wars they started. In fact, this was very calculated by Germany as they knew the US and UK would support a strong trading partner instead of Yugoslavia.

Now that the US, Germany, UK and NATO aggressively bombed and dismantled Yugoslavia/Serbia, we oppose them. Russia is left as our historical ally that we hope will help reverse that aggression with assistance from another new ally, China.

Both Russia, China and many countries supporting Serbia are on the up while the US and EU are on the down. The momentum is on our side so it is just a matter of time. During that time, the EU will make a mess of both Romania and Bulgaria, giving them a chance to join a prosperous region headed by China and supported by Russia.

nothing wrong with Tom's travel to Mother Russia, wish we look up to them more often...

nothing wrong with Tom's travel to Mother Russia, wish we look up to them more often...
(hm, 23 May 2012 11:47)
--
I don't think we should look up to them but rather stand shoulder to shoulder.

This is good news. Tadic would never have made his first visit to Russia, he knows his bosses were in Berlin and Washington. The fact that Russia is so involved with the SNS can only be good. Let's hope that Putin tells Toma how it's going to be, and stops him from doing stupid things like selling out his country to unelected EU wankers and war criminals in Washington.
The bankrupt US and EU must be getting frustrated, their influence is diminishing by the day, and thank God for that.
Cheers!!

Then they're going to have a chat about the best way to gloss over Nikolic's Chetnik past. Putin having the experience of keeping his KGB days quiet.
(Andy UK, 23 May 2012 12:36)

Russians are proud of his KGB past,he served his country!

Some folks on this site really are paranoid about Nikolic going to Russia, better to go to Russia than the USA or EU as those entities are very quickly going down the swanee and are a bunch of two faced war mongering hypocrites.

Good news With Nikolic as Serbia's president, the relation between Serbia and Russia can only get better.

@Engineer, I can answer your question easily. The relationship between Serbia and Russia is a historical and cultural one. Both countries share very similar cultural traits such as the Orthodox Church, cyrillic alphabet (which is a connection with the Church) and historical events which because of cultural similarities has meant respect for each other. The Russians were instrumental in helping the Serbs fight the Ottomans who were controlling vast areas of Serbian land, and not to mention the Russians involved themselves in WWI in order to help fight against the Austro-Hungarian aggression, I could go on but this should give you a general idea as to why there is a show of solidarity between the two nations. Indeed communism had during its time ruined a lot of this, but communism is gone now and the two nations can focus on their original cultural similarities.

It is good to see Nikolic travelling to Russia, for many years Serbia has been a country where the west has been trying to tighten its grip around, due to the nature of Tadic and his eagerness to surrender Serbia to the EU and perhaps even NATO if he was kept in power. I can't say that I trust Nikolic nor am I a great fan of his, but it would be good if the Russians could influence him and present an alternative to the EU which will be both more friendly towards Serbia and a partnership where there would be far more trust. Serbia should look towards Russia, Russia is rising and the EU is on its way out simple as that.

- Can someone tell me why is Serbia and Serbian people so tight with Russia?

(Engineer, 23 May 2012 12:52)

- Former YU had independent from the USSR politics, didn't follow Soviet "orders" while on the other hand had good relationship with the USSR (after Stalin's death)
- Former YU liberated itself from Nazi mostly by its own forces, which was a base for its further independent politics
- Russia entered WWI in the sake of Serbia and Serbs at a great cost for itself.
- Russia liberated Serbia from the Ottoman Empire

In Serbia we both have an irrational western loving wing and an irrational Russian loving wing. What we have to do it to keep telling these fools that we have to follow the Serbian interest.
(bganon, 23 May 2012 16:46)

And we have an irrational Otpor wing who takes orders, and money, from western funded NGO's and do as they are told by outside forces. Example, Madeline Albright, who funded Otpor, and people like bganon who happily executed her orders. These people do not feel Serbian at all, in fact they dislike being Serbian and want to be something else, they want to turn into 'Europeans'. I've met lots of these types, and they are the most delusional and brainwashed bunch, completely unpatriotic, who actually think they are intelligent, when in fact they are completely clueless. In the end, the only thing they worship is the almighty dollar, and nothing else. The LDP is basicaly these people, and a huge chunk of hte DS yellows. These people are easily bought and manipulated by outsiders who want to harm Serbia, so they are in fact a fifth column. Those are the facts my friends.
Cheers!!

"Tomislav Nikolić is set to travel to Moscow where he will on May 26 attend the congress of Russia's ruling party, United Russia."

NO DOUBT TO RECEIVE ZE ORDERS.

Engineer in the Serbian context there are roughly two sets of people that tend to idolize Russia. The first is the former Communist / Stalinist heritage - these are the people that effectively resented Tito for not letting Jugoslavija become a USSR vassal state. Tito had some of these people put on trial and jailed. The second group of people were Serbian nationalists / anti communists who love(d) Russia and like the die hard Communists appear to put Russian interests above their own. They did / do this mainly because of the religious and slavic connection, which is entirely in line with nationalist thinking - that blood, religion / race is most important.

The tradition continues to this day one can easily see this when reading comments like 'Let's hope that Putin tells Toma how it's going to be'. We have an elected Serbian president and somebody who claims to be Serbian wants Serbian sovereignty usurped by Russia. The love for Serbia is in fact questionable, the love for Russia is undying.

In Serbia we both have an irrational western loving wing and an irrational Russian loving wing. What we have to do it to keep telling these fools that we have to follow the Serbian interest.

I would like to to know something about Serbian and Russian relationship.
- Can someone tell me why is Serbia and Serbian people so tight with Russia?

The reason I am asking this question is: when I speak to my friends in Poland or Baltics they get so fired up about Russia ( not in a good way).
When you see reaction of people who have lived under Russian why would you like to go through that as well?

Again please do not start comparing other countries I want normal answer as I am not trying to offend or belittle just want to understand your thinking.

I see the latest governor of the Russian province of Serbia has been called up by the sublime court of Moscow to report on his strategy to keep Serbia Russian.

First on the agenda when Nikolic gets there is to polish Putin's jackboots for him.

Then they're going to have a chat about the best way to gloss over Nikolic's Chetnik past. Putin having the experience of keeping his KGB days quiet.

In Serbia we both have an irrational western loving wing and an irrational Russian loving wing. What we have to do it to keep telling these fools that we have to follow the Serbian interest.
(bganon, 23 May 2012 16:46)
===================================

And what do you think that would be? You keep saying we have to follow Serbia's interest but what exactly is that?

In my opinion Serbia's interest is to buddy up to Russia and China, heck even Australia is sucking up to China and a bigger US supporter you cannot get, but I think you disagree with this.
So could we get an actual answer to what is in Serbia's interest?
Buddy up to people who are more than willing to bomb you into submission and have taken a chunk of your territory away because that is soooo good for Serbia or someone without whom Kosovo would already be a UN member.

Will the Russian TV broadcast it live when Nikolic will lick Putin's boots and accept him as his new overlord?

"Tomislav Nikolić is set to travel to Moscow where he will on May 26 attend the congress of Russia's ruling party, United Russia."

NO DOUBT TO RECEIVE ZE ORDERS.
(Janez Beograd, 23 May 2012 11:15)

let's hope so...

Good thing he went to Russia first. They never started a "humanitarian" bloodbath for "democracy". We know who our friends are. Team Otpor the election riggers, obviously, don't. Sour grapes Bganon? You have had your fun and almost destroyed an entire culture while at it...

Warmer relations with Russia is a good thing for the Serbs. Mr. Nikolic realizes he shouldn't have to kiss up to the EU. Serbs can have good trade relations with Russia, China, etc., doesn't need the complexities of the EU or their pompiuos attitude!

SCP UK &aaayyy,

Thank you for your reply!

I can see similar cultural connections and well aware of Yugoslavia being independent non aligned country and not suffering under iron grip.
The reason is that Bulgaria also is Orthodox and uses Cyrilic and if I am correct they are inventors of that alphabet however as they had lived under Russia they work very hard at moving themselves as far away just like Pols and Baltic nations.

I was just thinking maybe as Serbia has never been under total Russian influence they do not know how ruthless it can be.

I understand WWI & WWII but I do not think they went to war as result of Serbia it was their interest WWII in particular, even WWI the day in Sarajevo by Gavrilo Princip was just the straw that broke Camels back the war was going to happen regardless.

I think its Serbias right to align or not align with who ever they choose, if it protects their interest who am I to dictate but I am afraid that it could be costly.

I think Russia will have more trouble with China in coming decades than USA and Europe, And with Shale gas it looks like many EU countirs especially Ukraina, Rumania ... have huge amounts of Natural Gas. In USA its 1.8$/BTU this will cut profits. In Canada they are working on making long haul trucks LNG this will cut cost by 25%.

Again I wish we have more this type of discussions in this forum to really understand each other,

I still regret the assassination of Zoran Đinđić, he still was and would have been the best one for Serbia! But to come back to the topic I'm sorry that Boris Tadić has lost this election. He definitely was and is no puppet of the EU and I liked his course. Yes, the EU seems not to be in the best state and personally I also have doubts. Don't get me wrong the EU would be a great chance for Serbia to improve in many ways, like to get a proper funding for a modern medical system or for the agriculture (just examples). But, yes I'm also be afraid of the possible impact to the local market and the whole influence on prices. But, these could be regulated and controlled by a functioning and strong Serbian government. Nobody wants that Serbia is sold out!!! But, it is time that Serbia is not longer separated from the World! Serbia is in a crisis, which was ongoing during Boris Tadić's time as a president and for sure this will not be solved during the next years. But this crisis would also have been there without him. And yes the most important thing is to get out of this troubled times and I still believe the EU could be a good choice for helping with that. I like Russia as well, but this confederation is more troubled than the EU and more restrictive in many ways. I just hope that the new president of Serbia Tomislav Nikolić can handle this difficult tasks and can be a there for all Serbs. There is still a loot of pain and anger left, but not only in Serbia…

I have always said it that the best course of action for Serbia is the two door policy, one East, one West. Never become too reliant on one or the other. Mr. Broz had it spot on.

Is he going to discussion the initials of his proposal he stated a few years ago, to make Serbia a Russian province? Or how does he spin that now? Did Putin arrange enough food for him? Just in case..

"With Russia we will be exporting our products, ...

(Ari Gold, 23 May 2012 11:52"

Fiat is going to be exporting 90-95% of its output from Serbia to the US.
(Amer, 23 May 2012 18:51)

And we managed to score that deal without EU membership. We can still obviously export to the EU without becoming a member. We should grow tons of organic food which Europeans love but have a hard time finding at a reasonable price in their own supermarkets. Serbia has a load of potential, it scares Albanians for example straight to hell.

So what? Why not use Russia to extract concessions from the West? Imagine Nikolic coming back with and agreement to host russian missile defense. It is 'defense' after all so no-one should(!) be annoyed. That would be hilarious. If only.

There is an alternative to the west in the near term and that is treading water and holding the EU in particular to their promises. No.1 test is that of the remaining SAA ratification hold out state, Lithuanian who has so far claimed it does not have the parliamentary time to ratify the agreement, though they claim they will in June/July. Exactly on who's behalf are they doing this (a rhetorical question if there ever was one)? If they don't, and I expect that pressure to do so will come from the usual suspect(s), but further delay in promises made by Brussels to Serbia will only undermine the pro-EU at any cost blok. Remember that Serbia has unilaterally put in to practice the SAA from its side and many european companies have profited from this without reciprocity.

Why the rush when the whole EU project is on the brink of collapse and there really is no reliable predictability left? If I had to choose between being on the Titanic or in a passing boat, the latter would do much more nicely. Serbs have time on their side. Others don't.

So far, Brussels has offered Serbia phantom peanuts and Belgrade has been performing circus tricks on demand. Even monkeys realize eventually that phantom peanuts do not make them less hungry.

Russia VS. the western "humanitarian" bombers, consider this:
"Since graveyard humor is a Serbian specialty, it seems appropriate that Serbs just played a little joke on everybody by electing a former undertaker as President.

In the May 20 runoff, affable former funeral home manager Tomislav Nikolic won slightly over 50% of valid votes cast against the incumbent, Boris Tadic, who had spent his eight years in office doing everything possible to please the Western powers that have in return done all they could to keep Serbia alone and humiliated. Constantly compared to Nazi Germany, Serbs have been subjected to a sleazy imitation of the Nuremberg war crimes tribunal, but no Marshall Plan billions to revive the economy. Conditions are increasingly desperate."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=31009

Both Russia, China and many countries supporting Serbia are on the up while the US and EU are on the down. The momentum is on our side so it is just a matter of time. During that time, the EU will make a mess of both Romania and Bulgaria, giving them a chance to join a prosperous region headed by China and supported by Russia.
(Zoran, 23 May 2012 18:18)

You are right on many things, for sure the Tito era was a golden one, and the Yugoslav passport was the best in the world. Hard to believe that people have better lives today than they did before.

But I think you are looking for the way out of the problem, the big brother to offer the Serbs salvation from their evil neighbours. There is no big brother to help, the best thing would be to rebuild relations with the neighbouring countries and ethnicities. Then there would be no more problems.

There is no region to be headed by China and supported by Russia - the two countries are enemies. United only by their common dislike of - you've guessed it - the evil fascist Western democracies...

Would be better to remain there forever, to join Mira and Marko, Milosevic's; family!

Bganon, listen and learn, this is how one defends Serbia's interests in a room full of anti-Serb windbags and fifth columnists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtdM5u2dqGk

Cheers!!

I have always said it that the best course of action for Serbia is the two door policy, one East, one West. Never become too reliant on one or the other. Mr. Broz had it spot on.
(Niall O'Doherty, 23 May 2012 17:54)

I was about to say something like that. See what the cause of friendship with the West has brought - things are getting worse and worse with Kosovo for Serbia. The West wants no compromise solution.

Dragan when you tell a leader of a foreign country to give the elected Serbian president orders on how its going to be you are in no position to lecture anybody.

That was a stupid statement to hang yourself with. As for 'friends' are you talking about Serbians or Russians? You obviously don't respect the leaders your 'friends' elected. I don't like Nikolic politically, but he is now my President and unlike you I don't want other world leaders to give him orders.

I don't know if its patriotic or not to have my position, but I know that its fifth columnist to have your anti Serbia position.

Danilo, I see you took a break from getting shot down by hot Serbian women to enlighten us with your brilliance on here. Shouldn't you be exploiting your underpaid workers or at Ceda's house enjoying the bacchanalia?

Bganon, I've been called lots of things, but 'unpatriotic'? LOL...that's a first. You're a riot. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Say hi to Maddy Albright for me and your Otpor mates, and my condolences that your plan to destroy Serbia has gone off the rails.

From Canada with Love,
Cheers!!

Time to get his marching orders from Putin.

Nikolic has my blessings to go and increase the cooperation between Russia and Serbia,or even to make Serbia part of Russia Federation.
He will serve albanian couse, more than albanians themselves with his policies.
Thank you Mr.Nikolic!

P.S For serbian comentators who are saying that Russia si better then EU,I have to remind them that I havent seen a mass of emigrants going from EU to Russia,but I have seen and see russian emigrants going to EU or USA.

Dragan you don't think telling a foreign leader to order around an elected Serbian President is unpatriotic?

(bganon, 24 May 2012 14:04

Ok, somebody needs to wake up here. What do you think that Merkel, Biden and Co. have been doing to the DS all these years? Do you think all those meetings they had with Tadic and his yellow traitors were to discuss his wardrobe? No, they were giving orders, telling him to give up Kosovo, to sell off industry, to let Montenegrins get free education in Serbia...etc. Now, maybe I'm crazy, but I would rather have a real friend and ally, someone who never bombed or sanctioned Serbia, someone who has ALWAYS stood behind Serbian interests, I would rather have someone like that giving advice to a Serbian premier. I know you and your Otpor mates would like the anti-Serb Germans to be the ones giving the orders, but that is because you are fifth columnists, and I am patriotic. Big difference. Get it?

Cheers!!

"With Russia we will be exporting our products, ...

(Ari Gold, 23 May 2012 11:52"

Fiat is going to be exporting 90-95% of its output from Serbia to the US.

Dragan,

I'm sure Serbs love hearing from someone who emigrated (probably as a refugee), how they're not Serbian enough for your liking.

--- When considering that Russia helped us break free of the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians and NAZIs along with Britian and the US, we were in good shape.
(Zoran)

Britain was strictly against liberation of the Balkans from the Ottomans. Because of Britain (and AH) Bosnia was given to AH which started all the mess.

Thinking "oh, we should be friends with China" has nothing to do with what Serbia needs.
(Danilo, 24 May 2012 10:10)
=========================

But you are so wrong. The whole world needs to have good relations with China because they seem to be propping up just about everyone, including the west.
The world has changed and maybe you can't see that. The US is no longer the leader in anything. They too are going cap in hand to China.
If it's good enough for the west to buddy up to China now, why not Serbia.
The west has lost it's way and others are emerging. There is nothing we can learn from the west any more except how to self destruct.

Gonna bring some flowers to Mirjana Markovic,
reminisce the good old times with Milosevic,
Mira Mira Mira Mira, you will soon be back,
prosecution persecution, charges will be dead.

I would like to know something about Serbian and Russian relationship.
- Can someone tell me why is Serbia and Serbian people so tight with Russia?
(Engineer)

- Serbia and Serbian people are awaiting for help – because in spite of a lot of efforts made by Tadic and others to befriend with the West things are getting worse and worse for Kosovo Serbs and Kosovo – the West is just inclined to please Albanians and wants no compromise solutions.

- For some people in Serbia it isn’t easy to befriend with those who bombed Serbia and trying to take Kosovo away.
---------------------------------------

they work very hard at moving themselves as far away just like Pols and Baltic nations.
(Engineer)

No, actually Bulgaria wasn’t that much anti-Soviet/anti-Russian. Do you want it to be?

WWI the day in Sarajevo by Gavrilo Princip was just the straw that broke Camels back the war was going to happen regardless.
(Engineer)

Of course, you are right - the war was going to happen regardless, but Russia could have easily avoided it.

It looks bad that the first thing he does after elections is go to Russia. Two days after elections. Not even sworn in office yet. Maybe they thought it would be over on 6 May and scheduled this two weeks after that. Still, I think the Russians would have understood if he had said: "look, let's postpone for a week, elections ended 2 days ago". Did not even cross his mind probably. Or it did, but the President of all Serbs wants to send a clear message by going to Russia immediately.

You know,I would love it if people back home undestood that the Russians nor the west dont give a s*** about us.What matters is strategy.

Grobar,ever the oppertunist,is trying to capitalise on pro Russian sentiment in Serbia,because he knows he cant solve anything from our dept to our employment levels.

Sorry to say,but I just wish my compatriots would stop believing in this orthodox brotherhood c**p,and realise the practicalities of international relations.We must play between the powers,not into them.Be allies,not pawns.

"but what exactly is that?"

Peggy,

With all due respect, without living in Serbia, you can't understand the ways in which Serbia is broken. Looking at it from the outside, people tend to look at it in terms of geopolitics, whereas Serbia's problems are local - everything is broken: healthcare, taxation system, entire bureaucracy, and that's just the surface. I hope you don't ever find yourself calling emergency services in Serbia.

It's not about whom to 'buddy' with, but fixing the endemic issues.

Here's the thing, Peggy. Serbia is so broken, it doesn't even know what's broken about it. Serbia's been like this for so long and if Serbia were a person, he would need an intervention.

Personally, I think that the process of joining the EU is the best blueprint Serbia's gonna get for fixing the very basic things wrong with it. It's as good a map as it's going to get.

To say from the outside, "oh, but Serbia can just do all that stuff itself", is simply an expression of not understanding the problem. If Serbia could have fixed its very basic problems itself, why hasn't it in the last 10 years?

Serbia needs to develop an environment for its citizens so that they can prosper and follow their dreams. This involves fixing all the fundamental things that are wrong with it. It's always Serbia getting in the way of Serbs trying to do things, not anyone else.

Thinking "oh, we should be friends with China" has nothing to do with what Serbia needs.

I feel sorry for you mate, clearly you are deluding yourself. Move to Russia if you want Russia to rule Serbia.
(bganon, 24 May 2012 14:04)
=============================

How about you move to the US because clearly that's where your priorities lie.
What a stupid statement you just made. Just because some of us would like to forge better relations with people who have never meant us any harm as opposed to the ones who have killed our own children you have the audacity to tell someone to move out of their country.
Well maybe it's you who should move.
You think you can hide behind your silly comments like how Serbia should not be aligned with anyone when clearly all you want is Serbia to continue to do America's bidding even if it means letting them take a chunk of our territory away.
Bgannon, you are too transparent.

I do not believe in cosying up to any country without a specific business / policy objective, or rather pretending to cosy up to a country that couldn't really care less - in order to satisfy some communistic / 19th century ethnic hangover that some of our citizens are suffering from.
(bganon, 23 May 2012 23:53)
============================

Whoa, now I can see your true colours.
What hangover are you talking about?
It's a fact that Serbia got bombed in order to tear away a chuck of her territory and we all know who did it and when.
Nothing to do with any 19th century hangover. It's all about present enemy. Maybe you don't see them as that but tell it to the people who are still mourning their dead and dying from the type of bombs they used.
Are you really ready to shake that bloody hand?

Then they have this Orthodox religion mentality that believes they have a God given warped rite to oppress and abuse steal from their neighbours. (Lenard, 23 May 2012 18:39)

??????????????

Peggy its quite simple, most of Serbia's trade is with its neighbours and most of its potential is to exploit those markets by re-establishing itself there and to exploit new opportunities.

As far as the EU, Russia or the US is concerned we take it on a case by case basis. The 'problem' is that if we wish to join the EU, there will be more sucking up to be done to the EU. However, Russia isn't offering us an alternative - if there are any deals to be done with Russia then lets do them, but I'm not in favour of giving better deals to one country over another if thats what you are asking. The Serbian interest is to get the maximum possible from each concern, I can't be any clearer than that without a more specific question.

I do not believe in cosying up to any country without a specific business / policy objective, or rather pretending to cosy up to a country that couldn't really care less - in order to satisfy some communistic / 19th century ethnic hangover that some of our citizens are suffering from.

My serbian friends, stop arguing about who's influence rules in your country. There's nothing to choose from. The only options: EU and USA vs Russia are both equally harmfull for a balkan country as Serbia, Romania, whatever.Let me tell you what happens when you choose the EU&USA option: you get FORMAL democracy, in which you lose the right to exercise your religion, believes, etc, because it's not politically corect. Your ethnic minorities will be give SUPER RIGHTS, in order to keep the majority under control. Ex: 90% of romanians don't wanna see gays parading the streets. Does it matter? No. Joining the EU/USA path leads to complet anihilation of authority and economic independence. You'll have to give special favours to EU&USA merchandise and have no right to protect your own economic interests.You'll have to support any war/enterprise the west does, even if the respective country has not done anything to you(Iraq, Afganistan, Libia). In exchange you get the right to travel freely across the EU, and the right to work there in the jobs the locals don't want to take. If you join Russia, you'll get the right to keep the freedom of our religion, a less politically correct state and society. Less formal democracy, more control of internal affairs. Russian economic interests will prevail. Since Russia has no intervention capability, your foreign policy means opposition to whatever US does. There's NO NEUTRALITY today, so do whatever you have to, to keep your serbian way of life.

"With Russia we will be exporting our products, with the EU we will importing food from Germany despite the fact Serbia can grow anything it wants in any quantity it wants."
(Ari Gold, 23 May 2012 11:52)

Please find out who the biggest importers of Serbian goods are. Little hint: Your beloved Russia with some 100.000.000 people imports less Serbian goods than Montenegro. On the other hand, Serbia imports most from Russia. Now tell me who benefits from this 'brotherly friendship'?

Dragan you don't think telling a foreign leader to order around an elected Serbian President is unpatriotic?

I feel sorry for you mate, clearly you are deluding yourself. Move to Russia if you want Russia to rule Serbia.

Bganon, listen and learn, this is how one defends Serbia's interests in a room full of anti-Serb windbags and fifth columnists:

[link]

Cheers!!
(Dragan, 24 May 2012 18:05)
===========================

What a disgraceful performance of the Serbs at that forum.

Engineer as unbiased observer with no dog in the fight I have noticed so many similarities between the two. One they both have been under the Turk-Tartar-Mongol alliance tutelage boot for centuries and has rubbed off on them wrong way in their thinking reasoning. Like they say the oppressed have become the violent oppressors as much they like to deny it. Both try to expand violently to create a Greater Russia and a Greater Serbia at the expense of their neighbours and steal their resources and goods. Then they have this Orthodox religion mentality that believes they have a God given warped rite to oppress and abuse steal from their neighbours. Even both have the double headed eagle on their crests like they say birds of a feather flock together. So many similarities like twins and most of them not so good.

"And we managed to score that [Fiat] deal without EU membership.

(Ari Gold, 23 May 2012 21:07) "

You didn't score the deal - Fiat (an American company) did. American car manufacturers can hardly keep up with the demand these days - they're adding 3rd shifts, working 6-day weeks, even hiring. (The brightest spot in the US economy these days.) I still wonder what happened to the Russian deal.

"You didn't score the deal - Fiat (an American company) did. American car manufacturers can hardly keep up with the demand these days "
(Amer, 23 May 2012 22:47)

FIAT, an American company? Funny, that's new to me, and the Italians won't be amazed about it, I guess. FIAT is an abbreviation, btw, find out what the four letters mean and you will be enlightened.

Its just a question, would you like to point out to me where I said that Nikolic went to Russia to receive orders?

Its my understanding that Nikolic arranged this trip before the Presidential elections. However, in international relations the first foreign trip a president makes and the first foreign trip the foreign secretary makes usually symbolises policy priorities.

Now, if you don't know a strain of Serbian thinking that predated NATO bombardment then I suggest you need to scrub up on your history. You could start with Tito's break with the USSR. Or you could have a read about nationalism, slavic brotherhood and religious clercalism. Its all there and in some cases pre-dates the NATO pact by a nearly a century, never mind NATO bombardment.
(bganon, 24 May 2012 15:47)
=============================

Please stop talking in circles.
I am trying to discuss what NATO did to Serbia and what it's intention was.
Why do you try to muddy the waters?
Again, I am not talking about taking orders from other countries and you know it. I am talking about forging better relations with some countries.

You are skipping around the issue that Serbia was bombed and a chunk of her country taken away.
Now tell me just how was that in Serbia's interest. Don't start with a history lesson. I don't care what Tito did at this point. All I care about is for you to answer how is it in Serbia's interest to accept the bloody hand of the very people who bombed her and ignore the helping hand of the people who have not tried to destroy her and are responsible for Kosovo not being independent and having a UN seat.
If you think that Australia isn't trying to suck up to China you are mistaken. Our lifestyle is about to end soon unless we made good choices.

So again, how was it in Serbia's interest to get bombed and Kosovo taken away?

they work very hard at moving themselves as far away just like Pols and Baltic nations.
(Engineer)

No, actually Bulgaria wasn’t that much anti-Soviet/anti-Russian. Do you want it to be?

aaayyy,

I do not have objection either way but actions speak louder than words:

Bulgaria in NATO, EU and playing with pipeline going through Bulgaria.

As you saw I was just trying to learn your point of view I have no benefit either way.

Can someone please explain why there are all these comments that Nikolic is in Russia to receive 'orders from Putin'? Is there any actual evidence for this or is it all just speculation for lack any intelligent analytical comment? Even the mighty bganon falls for this tripe!

I don't see how this helps the albanians in any way when they have to please the europeans.

"Can someone please explain why there are all these comments that Nikolic is in Russia to receive 'orders from Putin'? Is there any actual evidence for this or is it all just speculation for lack any intelligent analytical comment? "
(It's just a question, 24 May 2012 10:18)

Yes, it's all just that! And, yes, these comments lack any intelligence just like the comments that are telling that Tadic received 'orders' from the US, Germany or whomever

"Serbia's newly elected leader Tomislav Nikolić has promised a visiting EU official that he would travel to Brussels immediately after his inauguration."
So what now...??? Is he now also a traitor who gets his orders from the EU?
Or can you start to be more rational in your thoughts and your beliefs?
That neither he nor Boris Tadić are puppets and getting orders from other countries. They just listen and try to do what is the best for Serbia. At least that is what I hope and expect from Tomislav Nikolić
and what I belief Boris Tadić did .
And as I said before in my other comment, I still think the EU could be a good choice for Serbia. But, only if the co work is regulated and controlled from a strong Serbian government.
And please, stop claiming Russia would be the perfect choice, do you don't see all the troubles the Russian peoples have to Face? That the majority is struggling as well and only some privileged
people control all the wealth? And you don't find any social benefits like a modern medical care or solved housing issues outside this so called elite!
And if you like to make a pact with China, than for sure you don't know what you are talking about. Than you really start to sell Serbia out!!!
Stop attacking each other in this forum, start to discuss your opinions and accept the differences to get the best benefit for Serbia and all Serbs! You have the chance to convince me that I am wrong in my thoughts, but
only if you can show me some proofs.

Until you cut in Peggy I was talking about how I find it unacceptable that some people believe that elected Serbian officials should take orders from leaders of other countries. That IS what I am talking about, you have come in and keep adding questions. I thought you cared about sovereignty, obviously not.

You asked me about the Serbian interest, I answered, you spoke about cosying up to Russia / China etc. Now you want to discuss NATO and shaking bloody hands. My problem is that you haven't told me what the alternative to shaking bloody hands is. What does your rhetoric mean? Firstly what is a bloody hand, is any business from a NATO country a bloody hand? How do we sanction a bloody hand? Do we have preferential treatment to non bloody hands? Do we refuse aid from bloody hands them? Flesh out your argument. And what is your definition of a helping hand? Non NATO countries? Countries that have not recognised Kosovo? And how practically do we give them priority? I would appreciate an answer to these questions.

Really I find your last question utterly ridiculous, you are asking me why it was in Serbia's interest to get bombed. When did I ever say it was in Serbia's interest to be bombed. I could ask you when it was in Serbia's interest to have Milosevic as leader, but not only is it a moot question, its also irrelevant and doesn't apply to you. Same reply for Kosovo, I don't support Kosovo being taken away.

I would like to to know something about Serbian and Russian relationship.
- Can someone tell me why is Serbia and Serbian people so tight with Russia?
(Engineer, 23 May 2012 12:52)

Works both ways and it's since the end of 14th century. At the end of the 14th century refugees from Serbia begun to arrive in Russia. These were mostly skilled people - monks, artists, writers. Usually in clergy of course as it used to be in medieval times. They helped a lot emerging Russia ( Muscovy ) by transmitting the cultural treasures of the East Roman Empire and in the fact saving them from the sure disaster. Many churches in Russia are dedicated to "Savva, the Serbian" (unlike in Serbian, Savva is spelled with two 'v'-s in Russian).

So it's pretty long story. To tell the truth, in 14th century Russian reality and the life in Muscovy (but not in Novgorod!) was much less advanced than the Serbian one, so immigrants had hard time there and of course liked Novgorod and Pskov better.

You may dedicate few hundred Bucks to visit Pskov, Novgorod and the Golden Ring and see some frescoes in person.

Can someone please explain why there are all these comments that Nikolic is in Russia to receive 'orders from Putin'?
(It's just a question, 24 May 2012 10:18)

It's just a joke or expression of jealousy

Dragan 'giving advice to a Serbian premier', 'Let's hope that Putin tells Toma how it's going to be'. Nice bit of alteration there Dragan.
Giving somebody advice, and telling them how its going to be (orders) are two completely different things. So which is it? Do you support Putin advising Nikolic, or do you support the elected Serbian President being told what to do by Putin?

By the way the Premier is the Prime Minister, not the President.

Peggy if I wanted to live in the US, Canada or Australia I would move there. Please give me some words about how what I'm saying is wrong? Isn't it the most normal thing for each country in the world to act in its national interest? So whats the problem? Anybody can make accusations, but unless you tell me what I've said you disagree with I can't help you.

And what hand are you talking about Peggy? Are you suggesting a trade ban with US companies? Or something else? Preferential treatment for non NATO countries? To what extent, if a non NATO country offers 100 million for a Serbian bank and that bank could be sold to Italians for 400 million, what then?

Now, if you don't know a strain of Serbian thinking that predated NATO bombardment then I suggest you need to scrub up on your history. You could start with Tito's break with the USSR. Or you could have a read about nationalism, slavic brotherhood and religious clercalism. Its all there and in some cases pre-dates the NATO pact by a nearly a century, never mind NATO bombardment.

I see the latest governor of the Russian province of Serbia has been called up by the sublime court of Moscow to report on his strategy to keep Serbia Russian.

Engineer in the Serbian context there are roughly two sets of people that tend to idolize Russia. The first is the former Communist / Stalinist heritage - these are the people that effectively resented Tito for not letting Jugoslavija become a USSR vassal state. Tito had some of these people put on trial and jailed. The second group of people were Serbian nationalists / anti communists who love(d) Russia and like the die hard Communists appear to put Russian interests above their own. They did / do this mainly because of the religious and slavic connection, which is entirely in line with nationalist thinking - that blood, religion / race is most important.

The tradition continues to this day one can easily see this when reading comments like 'Let's hope that Putin tells Toma how it's going to be'. We have an elected Serbian president and somebody who claims to be Serbian wants Serbian sovereignty usurped by Russia. The love for Serbia is in fact questionable, the love for Russia is undying.

In Serbia we both have an irrational western loving wing and an irrational Russian loving wing. What we have to do it to keep telling these fools that we have to follow the Serbian interest.

"Tomislav Nikolić is set to travel to Moscow where he will on May 26 attend the congress of Russia's ruling party, United Russia."

NO DOUBT TO RECEIVE ZE ORDERS.

First on the agenda when Nikolic gets there is to polish Putin's jackboots for him.

Then they're going to have a chat about the best way to gloss over Nikolic's Chetnik past. Putin having the experience of keeping his KGB days quiet.

This is good news. Tadic would never have made his first visit to Russia, he knows his bosses were in Berlin and Washington. The fact that Russia is so involved with the SNS can only be good. Let's hope that Putin tells Toma how it's going to be, and stops him from doing stupid things like selling out his country to unelected EU wankers and war criminals in Washington.
The bankrupt US and EU must be getting frustrated, their influence is diminishing by the day, and thank God for that.
Cheers!!

Some folks on this site really are paranoid about Nikolic going to Russia, better to go to Russia than the USA or EU as those entities are very quickly going down the swanee and are a bunch of two faced war mongering hypocrites.

Will the Russian TV broadcast it live when Nikolic will lick Putin's boots and accept him as his new overlord?

NO DOUBT TO RECEIVE ZE ORDERS.
(Janez Beograd, 23 May 2012 11:15)

And when former president (boy that feels great to say) Tadic sees Merkel like 4 times a year I am sure those are just friendly conversations. Its hilarious Europhiles in Serbia will take any orders coming from Berlin but Russia can ONLY extend a hand to Serbia if they are getting no interest in it at all.

Its called mutual interests, Russia could use a staunch ally in the Balkans and Serbia could use powerful backing (as Russia already has done on the in the UN) on the world stage. What is so wrong for both sides to mutually have an interest to work with each other.

With Russia we will be exporting our products, with the EU we will importing food from Germany despite the fact Serbia can grow anything it wants in any quantity it wants. No this isn't some rabid nationalist talking, I am basing this off pure economics and geo-politics.

The EU=dead end.

Better than traveling to Washington to receive ze orders.

I would like to to know something about Serbian and Russian relationship.
- Can someone tell me why is Serbia and Serbian people so tight with Russia?

The reason I am asking this question is: when I speak to my friends in Poland or Baltics they get so fired up about Russia ( not in a good way).
When you see reaction of people who have lived under Russian why would you like to go through that as well?

Again please do not start comparing other countries I want normal answer as I am not trying to offend or belittle just want to understand your thinking.

Time to get his marching orders from Putin.

Dragan,

I'm sure Serbs love hearing from someone who emigrated (probably as a refugee), how they're not Serbian enough for your liking.

Dragan when you tell a leader of a foreign country to give the elected Serbian president orders on how its going to be you are in no position to lecture anybody.

That was a stupid statement to hang yourself with. As for 'friends' are you talking about Serbians or Russians? You obviously don't respect the leaders your 'friends' elected. I don't like Nikolic politically, but he is now my President and unlike you I don't want other world leaders to give him orders.

I don't know if its patriotic or not to have my position, but I know that its fifth columnist to have your anti Serbia position.

Would be better to remain there forever, to join Mira and Marko, Milosevic's; family!

Russia is a reliable partner of Serbia. Serbia should be more close to Russia rather than the EUROcrats and USA.

Then they're going to have a chat about the best way to gloss over Nikolic's Chetnik past. Putin having the experience of keeping his KGB days quiet.
(Andy UK, 23 May 2012 12:36)

Russians are proud of his KGB past,he served his country!

Engineer as unbiased observer with no dog in the fight I have noticed so many similarities between the two. One they both have been under the Turk-Tartar-Mongol alliance tutelage boot for centuries and has rubbed off on them wrong way in their thinking reasoning. Like they say the oppressed have become the violent oppressors as much they like to deny it. Both try to expand violently to create a Greater Russia and a Greater Serbia at the expense of their neighbours and steal their resources and goods. Then they have this Orthodox religion mentality that believes they have a God given warped rite to oppress and abuse steal from their neighbours. Even both have the double headed eagle on their crests like they say birds of a feather flock together. So many similarities like twins and most of them not so good.

nothing wrong with Tom's travel to Mother Russia, wish we look up to them more often...
(hm, 23 May 2012 11:47)
--
I don't think we should look up to them but rather stand shoulder to shoulder.

@Engineer, I can answer your question easily. The relationship between Serbia and Russia is a historical and cultural one. Both countries share very similar cultural traits such as the Orthodox Church, cyrillic alphabet (which is a connection with the Church) and historical events which because of cultural similarities has meant respect for each other. The Russians were instrumental in helping the Serbs fight the Ottomans who were controlling vast areas of Serbian land, and not to mention the Russians involved themselves in WWI in order to help fight against the Austro-Hungarian aggression, I could go on but this should give you a general idea as to why there is a show of solidarity between the two nations. Indeed communism had during its time ruined a lot of this, but communism is gone now and the two nations can focus on their original cultural similarities.

It is good to see Nikolic travelling to Russia, for many years Serbia has been a country where the west has been trying to tighten its grip around, due to the nature of Tadic and his eagerness to surrender Serbia to the EU and perhaps even NATO if he was kept in power. I can't say that I trust Nikolic nor am I a great fan of his, but it would be good if the Russians could influence him and present an alternative to the EU which will be both more friendly towards Serbia and a partnership where there would be far more trust. Serbia should look towards Russia, Russia is rising and the EU is on its way out simple as that.

In Serbia we both have an irrational western loving wing and an irrational Russian loving wing. What we have to do it to keep telling these fools that we have to follow the Serbian interest.
(bganon, 23 May 2012 16:46)

And we have an irrational Otpor wing who takes orders, and money, from western funded NGO's and do as they are told by outside forces. Example, Madeline Albright, who funded Otpor, and people like bganon who happily executed her orders. These people do not feel Serbian at all, in fact they dislike being Serbian and want to be something else, they want to turn into 'Europeans'. I've met lots of these types, and they are the most delusional and brainwashed bunch, completely unpatriotic, who actually think they are intelligent, when in fact they are completely clueless. In the end, the only thing they worship is the almighty dollar, and nothing else. The LDP is basicaly these people, and a huge chunk of hte DS yellows. These people are easily bought and manipulated by outsiders who want to harm Serbia, so they are in fact a fifth column. Those are the facts my friends.
Cheers!!

Nikolic has my blessings to go and increase the cooperation between Russia and Serbia,or even to make Serbia part of Russia Federation.
He will serve albanian couse, more than albanians themselves with his policies.
Thank you Mr.Nikolic!

P.S For serbian comentators who are saying that Russia si better then EU,I have to remind them that I havent seen a mass of emigrants going from EU to Russia,but I have seen and see russian emigrants going to EU or USA.

nothing wrong with Tom's travel to Mother Russia, wish we look up to them more often...

Back in the 80s, Serbs had no problem with either the West or the East. We liked the US, we wanted to become an EU member and we liked the Russians.

When considering that Russia helped us break free of the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians and NAZIs along with Britian and the US, we were in good shape.

Now, things started going bad with the reunification of Germany. That was the turning point when old German agendas started taking priority. With the premature recognition of Croatia, supported by ultra-nationalist money coming from the West, it was only natural that we were reminded of WWII history.

Even though the US and UK were opposed to this initially, they lost Serbia when they sided with the Germans in their support and started blaming Serbs for all of the wars they started. In fact, this was very calculated by Germany as they knew the US and UK would support a strong trading partner instead of Yugoslavia.

Now that the US, Germany, UK and NATO aggressively bombed and dismantled Yugoslavia/Serbia, we oppose them. Russia is left as our historical ally that we hope will help reverse that aggression with assistance from another new ally, China.

Both Russia, China and many countries supporting Serbia are on the up while the US and EU are on the down. The momentum is on our side so it is just a matter of time. During that time, the EU will make a mess of both Romania and Bulgaria, giving them a chance to join a prosperous region headed by China and supported by Russia.

Good news With Nikolic as Serbia's president, the relation between Serbia and Russia can only get better.

Both Russia, China and many countries supporting Serbia are on the up while the US and EU are on the down. The momentum is on our side so it is just a matter of time. During that time, the EU will make a mess of both Romania and Bulgaria, giving them a chance to join a prosperous region headed by China and supported by Russia.
(Zoran, 23 May 2012 18:18)

You are right on many things, for sure the Tito era was a golden one, and the Yugoslav passport was the best in the world. Hard to believe that people have better lives today than they did before.

But I think you are looking for the way out of the problem, the big brother to offer the Serbs salvation from their evil neighbours. There is no big brother to help, the best thing would be to rebuild relations with the neighbouring countries and ethnicities. Then there would be no more problems.

There is no region to be headed by China and supported by Russia - the two countries are enemies. United only by their common dislike of - you've guessed it - the evil fascist Western democracies...

"With Russia we will be exporting our products, ...

(Ari Gold, 23 May 2012 11:52"

Fiat is going to be exporting 90-95% of its output from Serbia to the US.
(Amer, 23 May 2012 18:51)

And we managed to score that deal without EU membership. We can still obviously export to the EU without becoming a member. We should grow tons of organic food which Europeans love but have a hard time finding at a reasonable price in their own supermarkets. Serbia has a load of potential, it scares Albanians for example straight to hell.

Peggy its quite simple, most of Serbia's trade is with its neighbours and most of its potential is to exploit those markets by re-establishing itself there and to exploit new opportunities.

As far as the EU, Russia or the US is concerned we take it on a case by case basis. The 'problem' is that if we wish to join the EU, there will be more sucking up to be done to the EU. However, Russia isn't offering us an alternative - if there are any deals to be done with Russia then lets do them, but I'm not in favour of giving better deals to one country over another if thats what you are asking. The Serbian interest is to get the maximum possible from each concern, I can't be any clearer than that without a more specific question.

I do not believe in cosying up to any country without a specific business / policy objective, or rather pretending to cosy up to a country that couldn't really care less - in order to satisfy some communistic / 19th century ethnic hangover that some of our citizens are suffering from.

"but what exactly is that?"

Peggy,

With all due respect, without living in Serbia, you can't understand the ways in which Serbia is broken. Looking at it from the outside, people tend to look at it in terms of geopolitics, whereas Serbia's problems are local - everything is broken: healthcare, taxation system, entire bureaucracy, and that's just the surface. I hope you don't ever find yourself calling emergency services in Serbia.

It's not about whom to 'buddy' with, but fixing the endemic issues.

Here's the thing, Peggy. Serbia is so broken, it doesn't even know what's broken about it. Serbia's been like this for so long and if Serbia were a person, he would need an intervention.

Personally, I think that the process of joining the EU is the best blueprint Serbia's gonna get for fixing the very basic things wrong with it. It's as good a map as it's going to get.

To say from the outside, "oh, but Serbia can just do all that stuff itself", is simply an expression of not understanding the problem. If Serbia could have fixed its very basic problems itself, why hasn't it in the last 10 years?

Serbia needs to develop an environment for its citizens so that they can prosper and follow their dreams. This involves fixing all the fundamental things that are wrong with it. It's always Serbia getting in the way of Serbs trying to do things, not anyone else.

Thinking "oh, we should be friends with China" has nothing to do with what Serbia needs.

- Can someone tell me why is Serbia and Serbian people so tight with Russia?

(Engineer, 23 May 2012 12:52)

- Former YU had independent from the USSR politics, didn't follow Soviet "orders" while on the other hand had good relationship with the USSR (after Stalin's death)
- Former YU liberated itself from Nazi mostly by its own forces, which was a base for its further independent politics
- Russia entered WWI in the sake of Serbia and Serbs at a great cost for itself.
- Russia liberated Serbia from the Ottoman Empire

I still regret the assassination of Zoran Đinđić, he still was and would have been the best one for Serbia! But to come back to the topic I'm sorry that Boris Tadić has lost this election. He definitely was and is no puppet of the EU and I liked his course. Yes, the EU seems not to be in the best state and personally I also have doubts. Don't get me wrong the EU would be a great chance for Serbia to improve in many ways, like to get a proper funding for a modern medical system or for the agriculture (just examples). But, yes I'm also be afraid of the possible impact to the local market and the whole influence on prices. But, these could be regulated and controlled by a functioning and strong Serbian government. Nobody wants that Serbia is sold out!!! But, it is time that Serbia is not longer separated from the World! Serbia is in a crisis, which was ongoing during Boris Tadić's time as a president and for sure this will not be solved during the next years. But this crisis would also have been there without him. And yes the most important thing is to get out of this troubled times and I still believe the EU could be a good choice for helping with that. I like Russia as well, but this confederation is more troubled than the EU and more restrictive in many ways. I just hope that the new president of Serbia Tomislav Nikolić can handle this difficult tasks and can be a there for all Serbs. There is still a loot of pain and anger left, but not only in Serbia…

Dragan 'giving advice to a Serbian premier', 'Let's hope that Putin tells Toma how it's going to be'. Nice bit of alteration there Dragan.
Giving somebody advice, and telling them how its going to be (orders) are two completely different things. So which is it? Do you support Putin advising Nikolic, or do you support the elected Serbian President being told what to do by Putin?

By the way the Premier is the Prime Minister, not the President.

Peggy if I wanted to live in the US, Canada or Australia I would move there. Please give me some words about how what I'm saying is wrong? Isn't it the most normal thing for each country in the world to act in its national interest? So whats the problem? Anybody can make accusations, but unless you tell me what I've said you disagree with I can't help you.

And what hand are you talking about Peggy? Are you suggesting a trade ban with US companies? Or something else? Preferential treatment for non NATO countries? To what extent, if a non NATO country offers 100 million for a Serbian bank and that bank could be sold to Italians for 400 million, what then?

Now, if you don't know a strain of Serbian thinking that predated NATO bombardment then I suggest you need to scrub up on your history. You could start with Tito's break with the USSR. Or you could have a read about nationalism, slavic brotherhood and religious clercalism. Its all there and in some cases pre-dates the NATO pact by a nearly a century, never mind NATO bombardment.

Good thing he went to Russia first. They never started a "humanitarian" bloodbath for "democracy". We know who our friends are. Team Otpor the election riggers, obviously, don't. Sour grapes Bganon? You have had your fun and almost destroyed an entire culture while at it...

It looks bad that the first thing he does after elections is go to Russia. Two days after elections. Not even sworn in office yet. Maybe they thought it would be over on 6 May and scheduled this two weeks after that. Still, I think the Russians would have understood if he had said: "look, let's postpone for a week, elections ended 2 days ago". Did not even cross his mind probably. Or it did, but the President of all Serbs wants to send a clear message by going to Russia immediately.

Dragan you don't think telling a foreign leader to order around an elected Serbian President is unpatriotic?

I feel sorry for you mate, clearly you are deluding yourself. Move to Russia if you want Russia to rule Serbia.

Gonna bring some flowers to Mirjana Markovic,
reminisce the good old times with Milosevic,
Mira Mira Mira Mira, you will soon be back,
prosecution persecution, charges will be dead.

--- When considering that Russia helped us break free of the Ottomans, Austro-Hungarians and NAZIs along with Britian and the US, we were in good shape.
(Zoran)

Britain was strictly against liberation of the Balkans from the Ottomans. Because of Britain (and AH) Bosnia was given to AH which started all the mess.

Is he going to discussion the initials of his proposal he stated a few years ago, to make Serbia a Russian province? Or how does he spin that now? Did Putin arrange enough food for him? Just in case..

"And we managed to score that [Fiat] deal without EU membership.

(Ari Gold, 23 May 2012 21:07) "

You didn't score the deal - Fiat (an American company) did. American car manufacturers can hardly keep up with the demand these days - they're adding 3rd shifts, working 6-day weeks, even hiring. (The brightest spot in the US economy these days.) I still wonder what happened to the Russian deal.

Dragan you don't think telling a foreign leader to order around an elected Serbian President is unpatriotic?

(bganon, 24 May 2012 14:04

Ok, somebody needs to wake up here. What do you think that Merkel, Biden and Co. have been doing to the DS all these years? Do you think all those meetings they had with Tadic and his yellow traitors were to discuss his wardrobe? No, they were giving orders, telling him to give up Kosovo, to sell off industry, to let Montenegrins get free education in Serbia...etc. Now, maybe I'm crazy, but I would rather have a real friend and ally, someone who never bombed or sanctioned Serbia, someone who has ALWAYS stood behind Serbian interests, I would rather have someone like that giving advice to a Serbian premier. I know you and your Otpor mates would like the anti-Serb Germans to be the ones giving the orders, but that is because you are fifth columnists, and I am patriotic. Big difference. Get it?

Cheers!!

I feel sorry for you mate, clearly you are deluding yourself. Move to Russia if you want Russia to rule Serbia.
(bganon, 24 May 2012 14:04)
=============================

How about you move to the US because clearly that's where your priorities lie.
What a stupid statement you just made. Just because some of us would like to forge better relations with people who have never meant us any harm as opposed to the ones who have killed our own children you have the audacity to tell someone to move out of their country.
Well maybe it's you who should move.
You think you can hide behind your silly comments like how Serbia should not be aligned with anyone when clearly all you want is Serbia to continue to do America's bidding even if it means letting them take a chunk of our territory away.
Bgannon, you are too transparent.

SCP UK &aaayyy,

Thank you for your reply!

I can see similar cultural connections and well aware of Yugoslavia being independent non aligned country and not suffering under iron grip.
The reason is that Bulgaria also is Orthodox and uses Cyrilic and if I am correct they are inventors of that alphabet however as they had lived under Russia they work very hard at moving themselves as far away just like Pols and Baltic nations.

I was just thinking maybe as Serbia has never been under total Russian influence they do not know how ruthless it can be.

I understand WWI & WWII but I do not think they went to war as result of Serbia it was their interest WWII in particular, even WWI the day in Sarajevo by Gavrilo Princip was just the straw that broke Camels back the war was going to happen regardless.

I think its Serbias right to align or not align with who ever they choose, if it protects their interest who am I to dictate but I am afraid that it could be costly.

I think Russia will have more trouble with China in coming decades than USA and Europe, And with Shale gas it looks like many EU countirs especially Ukraina, Rumania ... have huge amounts of Natural Gas. In USA its 1.8$/BTU this will cut profits. In Canada they are working on making long haul trucks LNG this will cut cost by 25%.

Again I wish we have more this type of discussions in this forum to really understand each other,

"Tomislav Nikolić is set to travel to Moscow where he will on May 26 attend the congress of Russia's ruling party, United Russia."

NO DOUBT TO RECEIVE ZE ORDERS.
(Janez Beograd, 23 May 2012 11:15)

let's hope so...

I would like to know something about Serbian and Russian relationship.
- Can someone tell me why is Serbia and Serbian people so tight with Russia?
(Engineer)

- Serbia and Serbian people are awaiting for help – because in spite of a lot of efforts made by Tadic and others to befriend with the West things are getting worse and worse for Kosovo Serbs and Kosovo – the West is just inclined to please Albanians and wants no compromise solutions.

- For some people in Serbia it isn’t easy to befriend with those who bombed Serbia and trying to take Kosovo away.
---------------------------------------

they work very hard at moving themselves as far away just like Pols and Baltic nations.
(Engineer)

No, actually Bulgaria wasn’t that much anti-Soviet/anti-Russian. Do you want it to be?

WWI the day in Sarajevo by Gavrilo Princip was just the straw that broke Camels back the war was going to happen regardless.
(Engineer)

Of course, you are right - the war was going to happen regardless, but Russia could have easily avoided it.

I have always said it that the best course of action for Serbia is the two door policy, one East, one West. Never become too reliant on one or the other. Mr. Broz had it spot on.
(Niall O'Doherty, 23 May 2012 17:54)

I was about to say something like that. See what the cause of friendship with the West has brought - things are getting worse and worse with Kosovo for Serbia. The West wants no compromise solution.

Warmer relations with Russia is a good thing for the Serbs. Mr. Nikolic realizes he shouldn't have to kiss up to the EU. Serbs can have good trade relations with Russia, China, etc., doesn't need the complexities of the EU or their pompiuos attitude!

Then they have this Orthodox religion mentality that believes they have a God given warped rite to oppress and abuse steal from their neighbours. (Lenard, 23 May 2012 18:39)

??????????????

In Serbia we both have an irrational western loving wing and an irrational Russian loving wing. What we have to do it to keep telling these fools that we have to follow the Serbian interest.
(bganon, 23 May 2012 16:46)
===================================

And what do you think that would be? You keep saying we have to follow Serbia's interest but what exactly is that?

In my opinion Serbia's interest is to buddy up to Russia and China, heck even Australia is sucking up to China and a bigger US supporter you cannot get, but I think you disagree with this.
So could we get an actual answer to what is in Serbia's interest?
Buddy up to people who are more than willing to bomb you into submission and have taken a chunk of your territory away because that is soooo good for Serbia or someone without whom Kosovo would already be a UN member.

Its just a question, would you like to point out to me where I said that Nikolic went to Russia to receive orders?

Its my understanding that Nikolic arranged this trip before the Presidential elections. However, in international relations the first foreign trip a president makes and the first foreign trip the foreign secretary makes usually symbolises policy priorities.

I do not believe in cosying up to any country without a specific business / policy objective, or rather pretending to cosy up to a country that couldn't really care less - in order to satisfy some communistic / 19th century ethnic hangover that some of our citizens are suffering from.
(bganon, 23 May 2012 23:53)
============================

Whoa, now I can see your true colours.
What hangover are you talking about?
It's a fact that Serbia got bombed in order to tear away a chuck of her territory and we all know who did it and when.
Nothing to do with any 19th century hangover. It's all about present enemy. Maybe you don't see them as that but tell it to the people who are still mourning their dead and dying from the type of bombs they used.
Are you really ready to shake that bloody hand?

"Can someone please explain why there are all these comments that Nikolic is in Russia to receive 'orders from Putin'? Is there any actual evidence for this or is it all just speculation for lack any intelligent analytical comment? "
(It's just a question, 24 May 2012 10:18)

Yes, it's all just that! And, yes, these comments lack any intelligence just like the comments that are telling that Tadic received 'orders' from the US, Germany or whomever

Bganon, listen and learn, this is how one defends Serbia's interests in a room full of anti-Serb windbags and fifth columnists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtdM5u2dqGk

Cheers!!

"With Russia we will be exporting our products, ...

(Ari Gold, 23 May 2012 11:52"

Fiat is going to be exporting 90-95% of its output from Serbia to the US.

Russia VS. the western "humanitarian" bombers, consider this:
"Since graveyard humor is a Serbian specialty, it seems appropriate that Serbs just played a little joke on everybody by electing a former undertaker as President.

In the May 20 runoff, affable former funeral home manager Tomislav Nikolic won slightly over 50% of valid votes cast against the incumbent, Boris Tadic, who had spent his eight years in office doing everything possible to please the Western powers that have in return done all they could to keep Serbia alone and humiliated. Constantly compared to Nazi Germany, Serbs have been subjected to a sleazy imitation of the Nuremberg war crimes tribunal, but no Marshall Plan billions to revive the economy. Conditions are increasingly desperate."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=31009

they work very hard at moving themselves as far away just like Pols and Baltic nations.
(Engineer)

No, actually Bulgaria wasn’t that much anti-Soviet/anti-Russian. Do you want it to be?

aaayyy,

I do not have objection either way but actions speak louder than words:

Bulgaria in NATO, EU and playing with pipeline going through Bulgaria.

As you saw I was just trying to learn your point of view I have no benefit either way.

Danilo, I see you took a break from getting shot down by hot Serbian women to enlighten us with your brilliance on here. Shouldn't you be exploiting your underpaid workers or at Ceda's house enjoying the bacchanalia?

Bganon, I've been called lots of things, but 'unpatriotic'? LOL...that's a first. You're a riot. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Say hi to Maddy Albright for me and your Otpor mates, and my condolences that your plan to destroy Serbia has gone off the rails.

From Canada with Love,
Cheers!!

"With Russia we will be exporting our products, with the EU we will importing food from Germany despite the fact Serbia can grow anything it wants in any quantity it wants."
(Ari Gold, 23 May 2012 11:52)

Please find out who the biggest importers of Serbian goods are. Little hint: Your beloved Russia with some 100.000.000 people imports less Serbian goods than Montenegro. On the other hand, Serbia imports most from Russia. Now tell me who benefits from this 'brotherly friendship'?

Bganon, listen and learn, this is how one defends Serbia's interests in a room full of anti-Serb windbags and fifth columnists:

[link]

Cheers!!
(Dragan, 24 May 2012 18:05)
===========================

What a disgraceful performance of the Serbs at that forum.

Now, if you don't know a strain of Serbian thinking that predated NATO bombardment then I suggest you need to scrub up on your history. You could start with Tito's break with the USSR. Or you could have a read about nationalism, slavic brotherhood and religious clercalism. Its all there and in some cases pre-dates the NATO pact by a nearly a century, never mind NATO bombardment.
(bganon, 24 May 2012 15:47)
=============================

Please stop talking in circles.
I am trying to discuss what NATO did to Serbia and what it's intention was.
Why do you try to muddy the waters?
Again, I am not talking about taking orders from other countries and you know it. I am talking about forging better relations with some countries.

You are skipping around the issue that Serbia was bombed and a chunk of her country taken away.
Now tell me just how was that in Serbia's interest. Don't start with a history lesson. I don't care what Tito did at this point. All I care about is for you to answer how is it in Serbia's interest to accept the bloody hand of the very people who bombed her and ignore the helping hand of the people who have not tried to destroy her and are responsible for Kosovo not being independent and having a UN seat.
If you think that Australia isn't trying to suck up to China you are mistaken. Our lifestyle is about to end soon unless we made good choices.

So again, how was it in Serbia's interest to get bombed and Kosovo taken away?

I have always said it that the best course of action for Serbia is the two door policy, one East, one West. Never become too reliant on one or the other. Mr. Broz had it spot on.

So what? Why not use Russia to extract concessions from the West? Imagine Nikolic coming back with and agreement to host russian missile defense. It is 'defense' after all so no-one should(!) be annoyed. That would be hilarious. If only.

There is an alternative to the west in the near term and that is treading water and holding the EU in particular to their promises. No.1 test is that of the remaining SAA ratification hold out state, Lithuanian who has so far claimed it does not have the parliamentary time to ratify the agreement, though they claim they will in June/July. Exactly on who's behalf are they doing this (a rhetorical question if there ever was one)? If they don't, and I expect that pressure to do so will come from the usual suspect(s), but further delay in promises made by Brussels to Serbia will only undermine the pro-EU at any cost blok. Remember that Serbia has unilaterally put in to practice the SAA from its side and many european companies have profited from this without reciprocity.

Why the rush when the whole EU project is on the brink of collapse and there really is no reliable predictability left? If I had to choose between being on the Titanic or in a passing boat, the latter would do much more nicely. Serbs have time on their side. Others don't.

So far, Brussels has offered Serbia phantom peanuts and Belgrade has been performing circus tricks on demand. Even monkeys realize eventually that phantom peanuts do not make them less hungry.

Thinking "oh, we should be friends with China" has nothing to do with what Serbia needs.
(Danilo, 24 May 2012 10:10)
=========================

But you are so wrong. The whole world needs to have good relations with China because they seem to be propping up just about everyone, including the west.
The world has changed and maybe you can't see that. The US is no longer the leader in anything. They too are going cap in hand to China.
If it's good enough for the west to buddy up to China now, why not Serbia.
The west has lost it's way and others are emerging. There is nothing we can learn from the west any more except how to self destruct.

"Serbia's newly elected leader Tomislav Nikolić has promised a visiting EU official that he would travel to Brussels immediately after his inauguration."
So what now...??? Is he now also a traitor who gets his orders from the EU?
Or can you start to be more rational in your thoughts and your beliefs?
That neither he nor Boris Tadić are puppets and getting orders from other countries. They just listen and try to do what is the best for Serbia. At least that is what I hope and expect from Tomislav Nikolić
and what I belief Boris Tadić did .
And as I said before in my other comment, I still think the EU could be a good choice for Serbia. But, only if the co work is regulated and controlled from a strong Serbian government.
And please, stop claiming Russia would be the perfect choice, do you don't see all the troubles the Russian peoples have to Face? That the majority is struggling as well and only some privileged
people control all the wealth? And you don't find any social benefits like a modern medical care or solved housing issues outside this so called elite!
And if you like to make a pact with China, than for sure you don't know what you are talking about. Than you really start to sell Serbia out!!!
Stop attacking each other in this forum, start to discuss your opinions and accept the differences to get the best benefit for Serbia and all Serbs! You have the chance to convince me that I am wrong in my thoughts, but
only if you can show me some proofs.

Until you cut in Peggy I was talking about how I find it unacceptable that some people believe that elected Serbian officials should take orders from leaders of other countries. That IS what I am talking about, you have come in and keep adding questions. I thought you cared about sovereignty, obviously not.

You asked me about the Serbian interest, I answered, you spoke about cosying up to Russia / China etc. Now you want to discuss NATO and shaking bloody hands. My problem is that you haven't told me what the alternative to shaking bloody hands is. What does your rhetoric mean? Firstly what is a bloody hand, is any business from a NATO country a bloody hand? How do we sanction a bloody hand? Do we have preferential treatment to non bloody hands? Do we refuse aid from bloody hands them? Flesh out your argument. And what is your definition of a helping hand? Non NATO countries? Countries that have not recognised Kosovo? And how practically do we give them priority? I would appreciate an answer to these questions.

Really I find your last question utterly ridiculous, you are asking me why it was in Serbia's interest to get bombed. When did I ever say it was in Serbia's interest to be bombed. I could ask you when it was in Serbia's interest to have Milosevic as leader, but not only is it a moot question, its also irrelevant and doesn't apply to you. Same reply for Kosovo, I don't support Kosovo being taken away.

I would like to to know something about Serbian and Russian relationship.
- Can someone tell me why is Serbia and Serbian people so tight with Russia?
(Engineer, 23 May 2012 12:52)

Works both ways and it's since the end of 14th century. At the end of the 14th century refugees from Serbia begun to arrive in Russia. These were mostly skilled people - monks, artists, writers. Usually in clergy of course as it used to be in medieval times. They helped a lot emerging Russia ( Muscovy ) by transmitting the cultural treasures of the East Roman Empire and in the fact saving them from the sure disaster. Many churches in Russia are dedicated to "Savva, the Serbian" (unlike in Serbian, Savva is spelled with two 'v'-s in Russian).

So it's pretty long story. To tell the truth, in 14th century Russian reality and the life in Muscovy (but not in Novgorod!) was much less advanced than the Serbian one, so immigrants had hard time there and of course liked Novgorod and Pskov better.

You may dedicate few hundred Bucks to visit Pskov, Novgorod and the Golden Ring and see some frescoes in person.

"You didn't score the deal - Fiat (an American company) did. American car manufacturers can hardly keep up with the demand these days "
(Amer, 23 May 2012 22:47)

FIAT, an American company? Funny, that's new to me, and the Italians won't be amazed about it, I guess. FIAT is an abbreviation, btw, find out what the four letters mean and you will be enlightened.

Can someone please explain why there are all these comments that Nikolic is in Russia to receive 'orders from Putin'? Is there any actual evidence for this or is it all just speculation for lack any intelligent analytical comment? Even the mighty bganon falls for this tripe!

I don't see how this helps the albanians in any way when they have to please the europeans.

My serbian friends, stop arguing about who's influence rules in your country. There's nothing to choose from. The only options: EU and USA vs Russia are both equally harmfull for a balkan country as Serbia, Romania, whatever.Let me tell you what happens when you choose the EU&USA option: you get FORMAL democracy, in which you lose the right to exercise your religion, believes, etc, because it's not politically corect. Your ethnic minorities will be give SUPER RIGHTS, in order to keep the majority under control. Ex: 90% of romanians don't wanna see gays parading the streets. Does it matter? No. Joining the EU/USA path leads to complet anihilation of authority and economic independence. You'll have to give special favours to EU&USA merchandise and have no right to protect your own economic interests.You'll have to support any war/enterprise the west does, even if the respective country has not done anything to you(Iraq, Afganistan, Libia). In exchange you get the right to travel freely across the EU, and the right to work there in the jobs the locals don't want to take. If you join Russia, you'll get the right to keep the freedom of our religion, a less politically correct state and society. Less formal democracy, more control of internal affairs. Russian economic interests will prevail. Since Russia has no intervention capability, your foreign policy means opposition to whatever US does. There's NO NEUTRALITY today, so do whatever you have to, to keep your serbian way of life.

Can someone please explain why there are all these comments that Nikolic is in Russia to receive 'orders from Putin'?
(It's just a question, 24 May 2012 10:18)

It's just a joke or expression of jealousy

You know,I would love it if people back home undestood that the Russians nor the west dont give a s*** about us.What matters is strategy.

Grobar,ever the oppertunist,is trying to capitalise on pro Russian sentiment in Serbia,because he knows he cant solve anything from our dept to our employment levels.

Sorry to say,but I just wish my compatriots would stop believing in this orthodox brotherhood c**p,and realise the practicalities of international relations.We must play between the powers,not into them.Be allies,not pawns.