Greece to hold new election on June 17

Greece is great. Makedonia is greek. All the world is greek. Greeks, once again, bear the burden of enlighting the people of the balkans and the galaxy in general, that its all a massive conspiracy against the most beautiful, educated, cultured, hard-working, and last but not least ORGANIZED nation of the universe.

Those foolish bankers, ha ha ha, cannot see that if Greece goes, they will fall with her. ha ha ha. Spain, Italy, France to follow suit.

So.... lift your sleeves and WORK!! work for the mighty Greeks!!

YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE!!!

As a German tax payer, I simply ask Greece to go. Keep all the debts you are not capable to repay even in a 100 years. I don't care, just go and don't forget to close the door behind you. That would be all. Thank you.

To Mr. Commentator, as a German taxpayer you might also be aware of the billions owed to Greece by Germany all the way from WW2 when Greek banks were looted for their gold and all the art galleries and museums were looted of all their valuables.

The NAZI's have to pay for destroying Greece, and paying reparations for WW2 is a start

amer. gimme a break, do you mean that Bulgaria/hungary is out of the EU?
jesus, there are contries who work practically with the euro (CG) but are not in EU, and countries (Bulgaria) who are out of the euro but in the EU.

of course all those trivialities are just formal nomeclature, but i thought you'd be interested in learning the truth.

of course all those trivialities are just formal nomeclature, but i thought you'd be interested in learning the truth.
(Leonidas's twin brother, 17 May 2012 13:22)

Albanians,crypto-Albanians,Fyromians and crypto-Bulgarians with zero knowledge,big ego and inferiority complex never had the balls to post under their own names.Instead they act like snakes hiding behind the bushes and changing skins(names)whenever it suits them to attack other posters.

(Commentator, 17 May 2012 14:50)

They say " a little knowledge is worst than total ignorance".There are two issues here: The funds that Greece,as any other EU country,receives from the EU budget and Germany's war reparations and loan repayments.The EU budged is made up of receipts from GDP and VAT contributions from member states.Some countries receive more than they pay into the budget and other countries receive less than they contribute.Greece is not a special case and if you look at the past 30 years you'll see that countries like France and Belgium have been receiving more funds from EU than Greece.

Germany's loan repayments and war reparations to Greece is a totally different issue relating the destruction and looting of Greece which modern German nazis are refusing to recognise.

http://www.happensingreece.com/petition-ww-ii-german-reparations-to-greece/

You call Merkel an idiot because she is supposedly helping Greece.On the contrary Merkel is being clever because the Greek bailout was also a bailout of German banks, who had stacks of Greek bonds in their vaults, and of German investors, who held and hold all sorts of "financial products" in which high-yield (because risky) Greek, bonds play a large role.

For a start, the German taxpayer has as yet not paid a single euro. The funds are guarantees, intended to reassure private investors that eurozone states will not default. Even if push came to shove they'd be loans, not gifts outright.

As I have said before I had long suspected the Germans knew that a Euro crisis would happen sooner or later.The whole point of the euro with its strict anti-inflationary rules was that any country that has the same currency as Germany is going to have to perform to a similar standard of efficiency.Bloated public payrolls,subsidies for uncompetitive industries, underinvestment in science, technology and education, corruption, tax exemption for the professional classes etc – you can't afford that kind of laissez-faire unless you periodically devaluate your currency.Since devaluation is not possible you have to reduce salries,pensions and other entitlements to the bone which in turn starts the deflationary process leading to millions on the dole.

Whether you like it or not the lifespan of Euroland -as we know it-is coming to an end.

If Greece leaves the euro and goes back to the drachma, it immediately becomes a formidable competitor in certain areas (tourism? shipbuilding?) and will probably recover fairly soon after a period of confusion. (Look what devaluation did for Russia.) But there's no mechanism in place for simply leaving the euro - a country has to leave the EU.

If Greece leaves and doesn't sink into the Mediterranean, it will suggest to Spain (and others) that a temporary bankruptcy isn't the end of the world, and it may be followed out the door. The departure of Greece would remove the stumbling block to Macedonia's joining the EU, under its own name. The departure of Greece plus Spain would reduce the number of Kosovo non-recognizing members in the EU and place additional pressure on the remaining three. Even if the countries reapply for admission, they could be held to the same standards as other new applicants and be forced to live up to the good neighbor standards now in place - no more blocking of the prospects of other new members, for example.

No-EU-ever politicians in Serbia may use the upset as an argument for Serbia to forget further efforts to join the EU. Since, with Karadzic and Mladic on trial at the Hague, the West already has what it wants from Serbia, this is not likely to upset anyone unduly. (Germany will still continue to exercise some influence as its largest market and aid donor.) The smaller countries will probably continue their efforts to join the Union, since membership in a club of rich and honestly-governed countries can only be beneficial, and with the example of what happened to other countries that let their finances get away from them they should be models of fiscal prudence. And everybody will live happily ever after.

To Mr. Commentator, as a German taxpayer you might also be aware of the billions owed to Greece by Germany all the way from WW2 when Greek banks were looted for their gold and all the art galleries and museums were looted of all their valuables.

The NAZI's have to pay for destroying Greece, and paying reparations for WW2 is a start
(Dave, 17 May 2012 00:56)

I know that Godwin's law applies best when bashing at Germans. But I don't care much about this, since it is merely trolling and an obvious attempt to divert from the real source of this problem. Besides that Germany paid after the WW2 quite a lot, Greece received 200bn Euro now to bolster its financial household. I'm pretty much sure that this money goes through the chimney. We won't see it again. And before that financial cheating disaster Greece received more than 300bn Euro through normal EU transfers and help. In both cases Germany was the main investor. This money, also gone. Makes already half a trillion Euro for a tiny people.

But like I said, keep it. Just go and close the door behind you. We will lock it and you can happily play with your Drachme. However, I seriously fear that this talk from Greeks that they want to leave the Euro zone is just cheap big mouth talk. The last polls even showed that three quarter want to keep the Euro which speaks volumes. Even our foolish chancellor Merkel promotes Greece's staying into the Eurozone (though only to appease German banksters) and the opposition (especially the Green party) is even more europhil that I have not much hope (along with the huge majority of the German people) to get rid of it

(Leonidas's twin brother, 17 May 2012 13:22)

There are countries that use the euro that are not in the Eurozone or even the EU (Montenegro, Kosovo) and countries that are in EU and do not use the euro. But once you're in the eurozone, not just using the euro for convenience, you can't get out if you're already in the EU. They designed it that way to encourage countries to be careful. Obviously, it wasn't magic.

There's an article at Foreign Policy suggesting that it would make more sense for Germany to go back to the Deutschmark and let the euro float to a more realistic value - it's as high as it is only because of Germany's economy (which BTW gets an unfair boost in international trade because the euro is lower than the DM would be). The author ignores the bit about having to leave the EU, which would scare the bejeezus out of the rest of Europe if anybody suggested it seriously.)

"For Greece it means 300bn and primarily supported by the big countries. Practically, only Germany and the Netherlands have a substantial EU invest deficit".

Show me an EU SOURCE indecating that Greece had net EU receipts of 300 Billion since it joined the EU.

"Greece did not mention the WW2 reparations until it got exposed during this financial crisis. That I would call a very shameful attempt to divert".

Indeed.It would be shameful for the Greeks to ask the German thiefs to pay back the gold and foreign currency they looted from the Bank of Greece.

Now, if I am right you seem to object to Greece getting money out of the EU budget -despite the fact that Greece is paying more than 3 billion euros/year in it, but as an Albanian living in Germany you don't seem to object to EU paying billions of Euros to Kosovo,Albania,Turkey,Bosnia and the rest of free loaders do you?

"Greece is not a special case and if you look at the past 30 years you'll see that countries like France and Belgium have been receiving more funds from EU than Greece."

Greece is not a special case in terms of getting EU funds. Practically, all get them, even Germany, the Netherlands and the other rich members. It becomes interesting when you compare the invests and funds, and here poor states tremendously benefit since their net invests are not only refunded but returned several times. For Greece it means 300bn and primarily supported by the big countries. Practically, only Germany and the Netherlands have a substantial EU invest deficit.

"Germany's loan repayments and war reparations to Greece is a totally different issue relating the destruction and looting of Greece which modern German nazis are refusing to recognise."

Is is not. The rebuilding and prosperity of Europe, in which the EC (nowadays EU) was the main political and economic birth cell, go hand in hand with repayment and reconstruction work where Germany and its industry was the main drive. Germany's disproportional invests are not the result of poor negotiations from Berlin, but deliberate. It was and is the best way to compensate without actually calling it reparations since the judicial aspect of it would cause side effects which would be unpredictable, not only for Germany, but for all countries world wide. However, it does not change a bit the fact that money was flowing. Greece did not mention the WW2 reparations until it got exposed during this financial crisis. That I would call a very shameful attempt to divert.

"You call Merkel an idiot because she is supposedly helping Greece.On the contrary Merkel is being clever because the Greek bailout was also a bailout of German banks,..."

Read again my previous comment. I stated that fact already. It does not change the stance of the German people. There is no will to support either of them, German banksters and Greek Fakelakis.

"For a start, the German taxpayer has as yet not paid a single euro. The funds are guarantees, intended to reassure private investors that eurozone states will not default. Even if push came to shove they'd be loans, not gifts outright."

Wrong, if Greece defaults (and this as sure as death and taxes) those "guarantees" are not worth the paper they are written on. We all know that this money is gone and what makes it even more hilarious that more money is flowing. In economy, this is called "delayed filing of insolvency" and by law a crime.

Overall, the whole discussion is academic. The only question remains how to get out of that mess. I clearly support the thought that Greece defaults and leaves Euro and EU. "Strangely" there is no majority in Greece for leaving, not even the Euro. Even Syriza wants the Euro and EU without the liabilities what tells me that still did not reach the peak of Greek dishonesty. I cannot eat as much as I want to vomit when hearing that.

"if you look at the past 30 years you'll see that countries like France and Belgium have been receiving more funds from EU than Greece. "

Of course - but the big countries pay in a lot more than Greece does - it's the net take that's important.

And as for reparations - what country did receive them? (Russia simply took them, of course.) France tried getting reparations from Germany after the First World War, and the country certainly deserved them - the country was pretty much destroyed, the Germans even cut down the trees on the path of their retreat back to Germany (at ground level - the Germans are thorough if nothing else) - and it just served as an excuse for the Second World War. It was better in 1945 to help Germany rebuild than try to force it to compensate the rest of Europe and possibly end up with another war.

"Show me an EU SOURCE indecating that Greece had net EU receipts of 300 Billion since it joined the EU."

Of course there are no exact numbers since they vanish in a range of different budgets. But you can get a rough overview, e.g. agriculture. Ever since joining the EU, Greece received worth more than 100bn Euro. In structural actions it was another 60bn, etc. Those numbers are nominal and don't include any inflation. Inflationary corrected and in a conservative view, you can add another 50% since 1981 and even before joining.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union

That alone would not only compensate reparations but exceed them. And we are not even talking about direct helps from Germany, aside from the EU, the fact that hundreds of thousands Greek were invited to Germany and to work, etc.

"Indeed.It would be shameful for the Greeks to ask the German thiefs to pay back the gold and foreign currency they looted from the Bank of Greece."

Shameful indeed because Greece not only got compensated in different ways as stated before but also the fact that Greece recognized the Two-Plus-Four contracts which is a peace treaty and as such closing this chapter, legally. Like I said before, "suddenly" after being caught when cheating and lying you come up with the story which stands in no relation and justification. You simply want others to support your disproportional living style. What emphasizes your shamelessness is the fact that the EU is not Germany. We have 27 members of which 17 are Euro members and they have now to jump because some cheaters at the Aegean Sea could not stop issuing presents to the people while no fool from Athens to Saloniki where not even once asking the question how that style can be perpetuated. You were having a relentless party which abruptly ended, and instead of questioning your own faults you go rampage. This already is announcement and the confirmation that you learned absolutely nothing and that you will just keep on repeating those mistakes.

"Now, if I am right you seem to object to Greece getting money out of the EU budget -despite the fact that Greece is paying more than 3 billion euros/year in it, but as an Albanian living in Germany you don't seem to object to EU paying billions of Euros to Kosovo,Albania,Turkey,Bosnia and the rest of free loaders do you?"

Actually, Germany's financial helps go much more farer than you might imagine, and this does not include EU at all. As a tiny example, I recently read an article that a shrine in Bhutan has been partly renovated with German money. There is nothing wrong about this. Japan is not different. Of course, they are no saints, but they try their best possible to make this a better world after the devastation which came from those countries. Where my (and many others) understanding stops is when funds obviously will not solve anything are just wasted. Greece is a very obvious example for that and when it comes to the amount of money even worse. We are talking about a 3 digit number and billions (!) which we will most likely never will see. Greece is a bottomless pit where billions can be buried in a very short amount of time with no gain at all. There is actually no crisis in Greece. There is no starvation, no calamity, no war, no nothing. It is only this disproportional living style which you did not earn. That one you have to give up and you will no matter how often you will cry foul.

To conclude this all, I just want to point out that you said nothing regarding the real issues, such as I stated before. You want EU and Euro, but no liabilities. Syriza which maybe will become the largest party repeated that numerous times. How this is going to work not even Syriza mentions, but I believe that Greeks will do it as usual. Sit it out and wait for the money pouring in. It worked so far, why not in future? Well, we (or better you) will see..

(Commentator, 18 May 2012 00:00)

I did ask you to provide me your sources to justify the numbers of Greece's EU budget receipts you'been waffling on this site but it seems to me you either devised them yourself or you just quote from a German tabloid.

Let me educate you by giving you a breakdown of Greece's EU net receipts since 1981.All figures are in millions .

1981-1984 2780

1985-1993 6253

1994-2000 2801

2001-2009 16589

Now even you can add those numbers and see that they are not near to 300 billion euros you'been farting about.

I provided you a link (while you did not btw.). If you not capable to browse and understand those figures, then it is not my problem.

Besides, your contribution for my other (more important) statements is 0%. I told you that I don't believe that Greeks really want to leave Euro. This is just cheap talk and now I hear in the radio that the newest polls see the "old" Greek parties gaining again. Like I said, hot air. It is currently very hard to take Greeks serious. I'm wondering how long it will take until you eventually (if?) understand that you betray yourselves first among all.

Greece is great. Makedonia is greek. All the world is greek. Greeks, once again, bear the burden of enlighting the people of the balkans and the galaxy in general, that its all a massive conspiracy against the most beautiful, educated, cultured, hard-working, and last but not least ORGANIZED nation of the universe.

Those foolish bankers, ha ha ha, cannot see that if Greece goes, they will fall with her. ha ha ha. Spain, Italy, France to follow suit.

So.... lift your sleeves and WORK!! work for the mighty Greeks!!

YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE!!!

As a German tax payer, I simply ask Greece to go. Keep all the debts you are not capable to repay even in a 100 years. I don't care, just go and don't forget to close the door behind you. That would be all. Thank you.

To Mr. Commentator, as a German taxpayer you might also be aware of the billions owed to Greece by Germany all the way from WW2 when Greek banks were looted for their gold and all the art galleries and museums were looted of all their valuables.

The NAZI's have to pay for destroying Greece, and paying reparations for WW2 is a start
(Dave, 17 May 2012 00:56)

I know that Godwin's law applies best when bashing at Germans. But I don't care much about this, since it is merely trolling and an obvious attempt to divert from the real source of this problem. Besides that Germany paid after the WW2 quite a lot, Greece received 200bn Euro now to bolster its financial household. I'm pretty much sure that this money goes through the chimney. We won't see it again. And before that financial cheating disaster Greece received more than 300bn Euro through normal EU transfers and help. In both cases Germany was the main investor. This money, also gone. Makes already half a trillion Euro for a tiny people.

But like I said, keep it. Just go and close the door behind you. We will lock it and you can happily play with your Drachme. However, I seriously fear that this talk from Greeks that they want to leave the Euro zone is just cheap big mouth talk. The last polls even showed that three quarter want to keep the Euro which speaks volumes. Even our foolish chancellor Merkel promotes Greece's staying into the Eurozone (though only to appease German banksters) and the opposition (especially the Green party) is even more europhil that I have not much hope (along with the huge majority of the German people) to get rid of it

To Mr. Commentator, as a German taxpayer you might also be aware of the billions owed to Greece by Germany all the way from WW2 when Greek banks were looted for their gold and all the art galleries and museums were looted of all their valuables.

The NAZI's have to pay for destroying Greece, and paying reparations for WW2 is a start

If Greece leaves the euro and goes back to the drachma, it immediately becomes a formidable competitor in certain areas (tourism? shipbuilding?) and will probably recover fairly soon after a period of confusion. (Look what devaluation did for Russia.) But there's no mechanism in place for simply leaving the euro - a country has to leave the EU.

If Greece leaves and doesn't sink into the Mediterranean, it will suggest to Spain (and others) that a temporary bankruptcy isn't the end of the world, and it may be followed out the door. The departure of Greece would remove the stumbling block to Macedonia's joining the EU, under its own name. The departure of Greece plus Spain would reduce the number of Kosovo non-recognizing members in the EU and place additional pressure on the remaining three. Even if the countries reapply for admission, they could be held to the same standards as other new applicants and be forced to live up to the good neighbor standards now in place - no more blocking of the prospects of other new members, for example.

No-EU-ever politicians in Serbia may use the upset as an argument for Serbia to forget further efforts to join the EU. Since, with Karadzic and Mladic on trial at the Hague, the West already has what it wants from Serbia, this is not likely to upset anyone unduly. (Germany will still continue to exercise some influence as its largest market and aid donor.) The smaller countries will probably continue their efforts to join the Union, since membership in a club of rich and honestly-governed countries can only be beneficial, and with the example of what happened to other countries that let their finances get away from them they should be models of fiscal prudence. And everybody will live happily ever after.

amer. gimme a break, do you mean that Bulgaria/hungary is out of the EU?
jesus, there are contries who work practically with the euro (CG) but are not in EU, and countries (Bulgaria) who are out of the euro but in the EU.

of course all those trivialities are just formal nomeclature, but i thought you'd be interested in learning the truth.

(Commentator, 17 May 2012 14:50)

They say " a little knowledge is worst than total ignorance".There are two issues here: The funds that Greece,as any other EU country,receives from the EU budget and Germany's war reparations and loan repayments.The EU budged is made up of receipts from GDP and VAT contributions from member states.Some countries receive more than they pay into the budget and other countries receive less than they contribute.Greece is not a special case and if you look at the past 30 years you'll see that countries like France and Belgium have been receiving more funds from EU than Greece.

Germany's loan repayments and war reparations to Greece is a totally different issue relating the destruction and looting of Greece which modern German nazis are refusing to recognise.

http://www.happensingreece.com/petition-ww-ii-german-reparations-to-greece/

You call Merkel an idiot because she is supposedly helping Greece.On the contrary Merkel is being clever because the Greek bailout was also a bailout of German banks, who had stacks of Greek bonds in their vaults, and of German investors, who held and hold all sorts of "financial products" in which high-yield (because risky) Greek, bonds play a large role.

For a start, the German taxpayer has as yet not paid a single euro. The funds are guarantees, intended to reassure private investors that eurozone states will not default. Even if push came to shove they'd be loans, not gifts outright.

As I have said before I had long suspected the Germans knew that a Euro crisis would happen sooner or later.The whole point of the euro with its strict anti-inflationary rules was that any country that has the same currency as Germany is going to have to perform to a similar standard of efficiency.Bloated public payrolls,subsidies for uncompetitive industries, underinvestment in science, technology and education, corruption, tax exemption for the professional classes etc – you can't afford that kind of laissez-faire unless you periodically devaluate your currency.Since devaluation is not possible you have to reduce salries,pensions and other entitlements to the bone which in turn starts the deflationary process leading to millions on the dole.

Whether you like it or not the lifespan of Euroland -as we know it-is coming to an end.

"For Greece it means 300bn and primarily supported by the big countries. Practically, only Germany and the Netherlands have a substantial EU invest deficit".

Show me an EU SOURCE indecating that Greece had net EU receipts of 300 Billion since it joined the EU.

"Greece did not mention the WW2 reparations until it got exposed during this financial crisis. That I would call a very shameful attempt to divert".

Indeed.It would be shameful for the Greeks to ask the German thiefs to pay back the gold and foreign currency they looted from the Bank of Greece.

Now, if I am right you seem to object to Greece getting money out of the EU budget -despite the fact that Greece is paying more than 3 billion euros/year in it, but as an Albanian living in Germany you don't seem to object to EU paying billions of Euros to Kosovo,Albania,Turkey,Bosnia and the rest of free loaders do you?

(Commentator, 18 May 2012 00:00)

I did ask you to provide me your sources to justify the numbers of Greece's EU budget receipts you'been waffling on this site but it seems to me you either devised them yourself or you just quote from a German tabloid.

Let me educate you by giving you a breakdown of Greece's EU net receipts since 1981.All figures are in millions .

1981-1984 2780

1985-1993 6253

1994-2000 2801

2001-2009 16589

Now even you can add those numbers and see that they are not near to 300 billion euros you'been farting about.

of course all those trivialities are just formal nomeclature, but i thought you'd be interested in learning the truth.
(Leonidas's twin brother, 17 May 2012 13:22)

Albanians,crypto-Albanians,Fyromians and crypto-Bulgarians with zero knowledge,big ego and inferiority complex never had the balls to post under their own names.Instead they act like snakes hiding behind the bushes and changing skins(names)whenever it suits them to attack other posters.

(Leonidas's twin brother, 17 May 2012 13:22)

There are countries that use the euro that are not in the Eurozone or even the EU (Montenegro, Kosovo) and countries that are in EU and do not use the euro. But once you're in the eurozone, not just using the euro for convenience, you can't get out if you're already in the EU. They designed it that way to encourage countries to be careful. Obviously, it wasn't magic.

There's an article at Foreign Policy suggesting that it would make more sense for Germany to go back to the Deutschmark and let the euro float to a more realistic value - it's as high as it is only because of Germany's economy (which BTW gets an unfair boost in international trade because the euro is lower than the DM would be). The author ignores the bit about having to leave the EU, which would scare the bejeezus out of the rest of Europe if anybody suggested it seriously.)

"Greece is not a special case and if you look at the past 30 years you'll see that countries like France and Belgium have been receiving more funds from EU than Greece."

Greece is not a special case in terms of getting EU funds. Practically, all get them, even Germany, the Netherlands and the other rich members. It becomes interesting when you compare the invests and funds, and here poor states tremendously benefit since their net invests are not only refunded but returned several times. For Greece it means 300bn and primarily supported by the big countries. Practically, only Germany and the Netherlands have a substantial EU invest deficit.

"Germany's loan repayments and war reparations to Greece is a totally different issue relating the destruction and looting of Greece which modern German nazis are refusing to recognise."

Is is not. The rebuilding and prosperity of Europe, in which the EC (nowadays EU) was the main political and economic birth cell, go hand in hand with repayment and reconstruction work where Germany and its industry was the main drive. Germany's disproportional invests are not the result of poor negotiations from Berlin, but deliberate. It was and is the best way to compensate without actually calling it reparations since the judicial aspect of it would cause side effects which would be unpredictable, not only for Germany, but for all countries world wide. However, it does not change a bit the fact that money was flowing. Greece did not mention the WW2 reparations until it got exposed during this financial crisis. That I would call a very shameful attempt to divert.

"You call Merkel an idiot because she is supposedly helping Greece.On the contrary Merkel is being clever because the Greek bailout was also a bailout of German banks,..."

Read again my previous comment. I stated that fact already. It does not change the stance of the German people. There is no will to support either of them, German banksters and Greek Fakelakis.

"For a start, the German taxpayer has as yet not paid a single euro. The funds are guarantees, intended to reassure private investors that eurozone states will not default. Even if push came to shove they'd be loans, not gifts outright."

Wrong, if Greece defaults (and this as sure as death and taxes) those "guarantees" are not worth the paper they are written on. We all know that this money is gone and what makes it even more hilarious that more money is flowing. In economy, this is called "delayed filing of insolvency" and by law a crime.

Overall, the whole discussion is academic. The only question remains how to get out of that mess. I clearly support the thought that Greece defaults and leaves Euro and EU. "Strangely" there is no majority in Greece for leaving, not even the Euro. Even Syriza wants the Euro and EU without the liabilities what tells me that still did not reach the peak of Greek dishonesty. I cannot eat as much as I want to vomit when hearing that.

"if you look at the past 30 years you'll see that countries like France and Belgium have been receiving more funds from EU than Greece. "

Of course - but the big countries pay in a lot more than Greece does - it's the net take that's important.

And as for reparations - what country did receive them? (Russia simply took them, of course.) France tried getting reparations from Germany after the First World War, and the country certainly deserved them - the country was pretty much destroyed, the Germans even cut down the trees on the path of their retreat back to Germany (at ground level - the Germans are thorough if nothing else) - and it just served as an excuse for the Second World War. It was better in 1945 to help Germany rebuild than try to force it to compensate the rest of Europe and possibly end up with another war.

"Show me an EU SOURCE indecating that Greece had net EU receipts of 300 Billion since it joined the EU."

Of course there are no exact numbers since they vanish in a range of different budgets. But you can get a rough overview, e.g. agriculture. Ever since joining the EU, Greece received worth more than 100bn Euro. In structural actions it was another 60bn, etc. Those numbers are nominal and don't include any inflation. Inflationary corrected and in a conservative view, you can add another 50% since 1981 and even before joining.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union

That alone would not only compensate reparations but exceed them. And we are not even talking about direct helps from Germany, aside from the EU, the fact that hundreds of thousands Greek were invited to Germany and to work, etc.

"Indeed.It would be shameful for the Greeks to ask the German thiefs to pay back the gold and foreign currency they looted from the Bank of Greece."

Shameful indeed because Greece not only got compensated in different ways as stated before but also the fact that Greece recognized the Two-Plus-Four contracts which is a peace treaty and as such closing this chapter, legally. Like I said before, "suddenly" after being caught when cheating and lying you come up with the story which stands in no relation and justification. You simply want others to support your disproportional living style. What emphasizes your shamelessness is the fact that the EU is not Germany. We have 27 members of which 17 are Euro members and they have now to jump because some cheaters at the Aegean Sea could not stop issuing presents to the people while no fool from Athens to Saloniki where not even once asking the question how that style can be perpetuated. You were having a relentless party which abruptly ended, and instead of questioning your own faults you go rampage. This already is announcement and the confirmation that you learned absolutely nothing and that you will just keep on repeating those mistakes.

"Now, if I am right you seem to object to Greece getting money out of the EU budget -despite the fact that Greece is paying more than 3 billion euros/year in it, but as an Albanian living in Germany you don't seem to object to EU paying billions of Euros to Kosovo,Albania,Turkey,Bosnia and the rest of free loaders do you?"

Actually, Germany's financial helps go much more farer than you might imagine, and this does not include EU at all. As a tiny example, I recently read an article that a shrine in Bhutan has been partly renovated with German money. There is nothing wrong about this. Japan is not different. Of course, they are no saints, but they try their best possible to make this a better world after the devastation which came from those countries. Where my (and many others) understanding stops is when funds obviously will not solve anything are just wasted. Greece is a very obvious example for that and when it comes to the amount of money even worse. We are talking about a 3 digit number and billions (!) which we will most likely never will see. Greece is a bottomless pit where billions can be buried in a very short amount of time with no gain at all. There is actually no crisis in Greece. There is no starvation, no calamity, no war, no nothing. It is only this disproportional living style which you did not earn. That one you have to give up and you will no matter how often you will cry foul.

To conclude this all, I just want to point out that you said nothing regarding the real issues, such as I stated before. You want EU and Euro, but no liabilities. Syriza which maybe will become the largest party repeated that numerous times. How this is going to work not even Syriza mentions, but I believe that Greeks will do it as usual. Sit it out and wait for the money pouring in. It worked so far, why not in future? Well, we (or better you) will see..

I provided you a link (while you did not btw.). If you not capable to browse and understand those figures, then it is not my problem.

Besides, your contribution for my other (more important) statements is 0%. I told you that I don't believe that Greeks really want to leave Euro. This is just cheap talk and now I hear in the radio that the newest polls see the "old" Greek parties gaining again. Like I said, hot air. It is currently very hard to take Greeks serious. I'm wondering how long it will take until you eventually (if?) understand that you betray yourselves first among all.