20 years since beginning of Sarajevo siege

Just a note to say that many Serbs had deep reservations about the bombardment of Sarajevo. In turn RTS was running non stop propaganda pieces on how Sarajevan Serbs were being held as hostages by Bosnian Muslums and how bombing Sarajevo was the only way to defend Christianity against Islamic fundamentalism.

Of course Serbia was never officially at war in Bosnia, at the same time we all knew that this was going on in a country that most of us still considered to be ours - Jugoslavija, so it was impossible that our state was not involved.

Those closer to the ground knew for example that as the J(N)A had retreated it had left heavy weapons to be used by the Bosnian Serbs, that many officers simply just transferred from the JA to the Bosnian Serb army.

In my opinion the bombardment of Sarajevo was a disgrace, as I don't support bombardment of civilian targets. Even excluding some high profile disputed bombings aside there were many instances of civilans being targeted in Sarajevo by bombs and snipers.

And yet, the blgd regime (and its ever loyal media) gives its full support to dodic and his fellows, and continues to promote the milosevic/karadzic/mladic ideology.

there is a basic inability and general unwillingness of the serbian elite to admit to the truth, to take responsibility, to ask for forgiveness. whatever bits they have offered have all been forced or coerced by the west, incl and especially the arrest and extradition of all the worst and biggest war criminal villains. otherwise they'd all still be sitting in belgade or banja luka, fat and not so pretty...

meanwhile thousands of war criminals remain there, free and easy, and will never be prosecuted unless a democratic form of govt comes to serbia and so called rs.

a great shame upon you and your malicious historical relativism and genocide denial!

there are individuals in serbia that continue to fight the fascism -- god knows it isn't easy for them, and we know some of them and offer our support.

and for the beautiful ppl of sarajevo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh_AQUYvRvg

One view that seems to be lacking amongst western media reports are the positive implications of Bosnia (and also Mali) breaking apart. Afterall; Bosnia cannot function properly as it stands, and trying to centralise the current system will only marginalize the Serbs and Croats of Bosnia. Furthermore, Bosnia is the only nation on the planet (with the possible exception of North Korea) where the majority of its own population do not want it to exist. If Bosnia were dismantled, the remaining Bosniak state would finally gain an independence it has never experienced, and be able to create their own future, as of course would the Serbs and Croats.

That city is responsible for creating pan islamists....! Serbs & Croats were always treated as second class citizens in that city. Discraceful !

It is quite amazing how much effort is put into keeping this dysfunctional state together even against the will of the majority. It is not about doing the right thing but about the ego of some western countries. They made a colossal mistake and can't seem to admit it.

Izetbegovic repeatedly warned the West that war would break out if BiH sought independence. Izetbegovic signed a peace deal with both Serbians and Croatians, and it seemed war would be averted had it not been for the US convincing Izetbegovic to renege, presumably promising him all of BiH.

In the end the Muslims ended up with less than the original agreement. 100,000 unnecessary deaths all because the West attempted to push through its agenda instead of mediating honestly and allowing the people to determine their future.

This is what we are dealing with. An incompetent group of people with huge egos making a complete mess of this world. BiH was the start of it. Look what followed - a complete mess in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. And lets not forget about the genocides against Serbians in RSK and KiM.

Strange, no comment from Comm. Parrisson.

“There are some people in Bosnia-Herzegovina, even on the highest level, who will keep going and continue to want to see the state break apart, which was Radovan Karadžić’s original goal. "

No, his goal was to ethnically cleanse towns and regions and get more of the area for Serbs. But there are officials today who want to keep the status quo, of Bosnia being a federation of two entities with a lot of autonomy (and not much of a central government, due to all the quarrels and political fights)

If I understand the serbs correctly judging by the comments on one side you want to split up Bosnia because the majority of the population is against this creation, but in the same time serbs are willing to allow Kosovo it´s own independence even if over 90% of the population dont want to be part of Serbia? How does this equation go together? Why this hipocrisy?

Those civilians killed in besieged Sarajevo about 25% were that Serbs did not want to leave their families and friends were killed by the criminal rebel Serb "army". The rebel Serbs had 172 criminal snipers shooting down civilian children ,women ,men in besieged Sarajevo for years we all know about it. Why Dodo of "Srpska" entity aka greater warmongering Serbia is not going after them he knows who they are that was a war crime and so many more pathetic. Like Radovan criminal leader of the minority Serbs said "Without Serbia, nothing would have happened, we don't have the resources and we would not have been able to make war."
Radovan Karadzic, former president of Republika Srpska, to the Assembly of the Republika Srpska, May 10, 1994. The day of the aggression on the country of Bosnia is getting world wide attention is remembered these past few days and unanimous it puts the blame squarely on the Serbs/Serbia check it for your self's.

"In turn RTS was running non stop propaganda pieces on how Sarajevan Serbs were being held as hostages by Bosnian Muslums"

There were many, many concentration camps and illegal prisons run by the Muslims in Sarajevo. Did you ever do research of people like Jusuf Prazina and Ismet "Ćelo" Bajramović? They were just a few ex-cons and hardened criminals who ran paramilitaries in Sarajevo.

Also Sarajevo was DIVIDED and the front lines were fairly constant throughout the war. It was more of a stand-off than a siege. The UN, foreign media, diplomats, and Muslim politicians, were jetting in and out throughout the whole war and the UN was able to fuel and feed all their soldiers stationed there. Plus the Muslim army within Sarajevo became more organized and got more weapons despite the so-called siege.

It was the Muslim government which had their soldiers and police seal all the entrance and exits in the territory which they controlled.
People were trapped by the Muslims. On the Serbian-held territory of Sarajevo (which included some suburbs) people were free to leave.

Such a tragedy.
There is another tragedy: pan-islamism is extending, or as per a Bosnian Nasheed "tece islam na sve strane".
This is the enemy of the future, where all our freedoms and rights are awaiting replacement by Sharia.
But thanks to its behaviour in Visegrad, Srebrenica and Sarajevo, to quote just a few examples, Serbia and Serbs have been demonised for at least a generation to come, just when Christian Europe is at its most threatened.
Never was there a greater need for unity!

"meanwhile thousands of war criminals remain there, free and easy, and will never be prosecuted unless a democratic form of govt comes to serbia and so called rs."
=========================

Thousands Roberto? Thousands? Who are these war criminals? Are you perhaps talking about every Serbs who took up arms in order to survive? So everyone who was part of Serbian forces is a criminal?
You really must stop taking the stuff from Thaci and Co. It will warp your mind even more.

n my opinion the bombardment of Sarajevo was a disgrace, as I don't support bombardment of civilian targets. Even excluding some high profile disputed bombings aside there were many instances of civilans being targeted in Sarajevo by bombs and snipers.
(bganon, 6 April 2012 13:22)
===============================

Just to clarify here, who do you blame for the civilians being targeted?
Is it only the Serbs or do you think others did the same? By your statement you imply it was only the Serbs so if this is not what you intended please clarify.
Take Markele for instance, do you think this was done by the Serbian side or do you agree with some that it was done by the Muslims themselves in order to gain sympathy?
Also the officers you refer to who stayed behind as part of the Serbian forces in Bosnia, were they officers from Serbia or were they locals who would've stayed there anyway because they lived there?
You don't seem to clarify very much indeed but you do bring in your righteous comments.
It would be great for once to hear from you if Serbs were to blame for the war in Bosnia or not.
Who do you blame? Was it Serb aggression or was is survival? What would you have the Serbs do? All the weapons they had were VJ weapons but Yugoslavia was also Bosnia so the weapons were theirs. Would you have the Serbs share those weapons with Muslims and Croats just to be fair?
This is a lot more complicated than just simply saying that the Serbs had a siege on Sarajevo and acted as aggressors.

Just a note to say that many Serbs had deep reservations about the bombardment of Sarajevo. In turn RTS was running non stop propaganda pieces on how Sarajevan Serbs were being held as hostages by Bosnian Muslums and how bombing Sarajevo was the only way to defend Christianity against Islamic fundamentalism.
================================

Was it propaganda bganon or was there truth in this?
If Serbia was not going to show what was happening to their brothers in Bosnia who was? Do you think that Serbs should not have had a voice?
You call it propaganda. Why? Was it all a lie?

If I understand the serbs correctly judging by the comments on one side you want to split up Bosnia because the majority of the population is against this creation, but in the same time serbs are willing to allow Kosovo it´s own independence even if over 90% of the population dont want to be part of Serbia? How does this equation go together? Why this hipocrisy?
(D, 6 April 2012 18:27)

Now Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro, BiH and Kosovo can break away from Yugoslvia, but the Serb must stay in all of these countries and be quiet; now why this hypocracy? I personally have absolutely nothing against the Albanians breaking away, but pray tell me how is Kosovo going to survive? Where are they going to find work? When you answer those questions then you will understand why Kosovo has to stay with Serbia.

So, you are saying that if Kosova/o is to be brought under Serbia again, Kosova/o citizens will all have jobs. Sign me up.
(Kosovo/a Serb, 7 April 2012 18:11)
The projection is that industry will open up in Serbia and by 2014 skilled and non skilled labour shortage will start to occur. So if the Kosovo burden is to be lightened on the EU Serbia has to allow these same Albanians to work for Serbs or work alongside them. That is what I am saying. Kosovo has nothing of value and what little there is will be used up and they will have to look after 1.2 million people. The EU is jerking the Albanians chain as they are going now where fast and this year will be the crunch time as the EU is no0 officially in a recession and that means bad news everywhere on that continent, but it means even worse news for the US. Ask yourself why didn’t Obama meet with Thaci? What he had no time; what not 5 minutes for a chat in the corridor? – no one is that busy - No the ship is turning and so must US policy – I’m not joking about this nor am I writing this for some type of propaganda as I have seen this at work before.

Now what happens to the Albanians in Serbia proper is another matter. They will look for work but who will give them a job? If it’s a multinational they might but where do they live? Is it safe for them to stay there? There are many more questions that need to be answered, but the EU will abandon the Albanians and leave them to their fate much like the Serbs in Kosovo.

Now Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro, BiH and Kosovo can break away from Yugoslvia, but the Serb must stay in all of these countries and be quiet; now why this hypocracy? I personally have absolutely nothing against the Albanians breaking away, but pray tell me how is Kosovo going to survive? Where are they going to find work? When you answer those questions then you will understand why Kosovo has to stay with Serbia.
(sj, 7 April 2012 01:46)

So, you are saying that if Kosova/o is to be brought under Serbia again, Kosova/o citizens will all have jobs. Sign me up.

"The projection is that industry will open up in Serbia and by 2014 skilled and non skilled labour shortage will start to occur. So if the Kosovo burden is to be lightened on the EU Serbia has to allow these same Albanians to work for Serbs or work alongside them. That is what I am saying. Kosovo has nothing of value and what little there is will be used up and they will have to look after 1.2 million people. The EU is jerking the Albanians chain as they are going now where fast and this year will be the crunch time as the EU is no0 officially in a recession and that means bad news everywhere on that continent, but it means even worse news for the US. Ask yourself why didn’t Obama meet with Thaci? What he had no time; what not 5 minutes for a chat in the corridor? – no one is that busy - No the ship is turning and so must US policy – I’m not joking about this nor am I writing this for some type of propaganda as I have seen this at work before.

Now what happens to the Albanians in Serbia proper is another matter. They will look for work but who will give them a job? If it’s a multinational they might but where do they live? Is it safe for them to stay there? There are many more questions that need to be answered, but the EU will abandon the Albanians and leave them to their fate much like the Serbs in Kosovo."
(sj, 8 April 2012 09:48)

Wow, I had never looked at it from that point of view. Never considered the Kosovo burden on the EU and the Serbian willingness to share that burden. 1.2 million mouths to feed at 85% unemployment, that makes 1.02 million unemployed. Who should all go to Serbia to look for jobs. Starting 2014 you said? Where exactly? Belgrade, Nis, Novi Sad? If you have more detailed info on jobs opening up in Serbia, be a sport and tell us where to send those 1.02 million unemployed Albanians.

That city is responsible for creating pan islamists....! Serbs & Croats were always treated as second class citizens in that city. Discraceful !

It is quite amazing how much effort is put into keeping this dysfunctional state together even against the will of the majority. It is not about doing the right thing but about the ego of some western countries. They made a colossal mistake and can't seem to admit it.

Izetbegovic repeatedly warned the West that war would break out if BiH sought independence. Izetbegovic signed a peace deal with both Serbians and Croatians, and it seemed war would be averted had it not been for the US convincing Izetbegovic to renege, presumably promising him all of BiH.

In the end the Muslims ended up with less than the original agreement. 100,000 unnecessary deaths all because the West attempted to push through its agenda instead of mediating honestly and allowing the people to determine their future.

This is what we are dealing with. An incompetent group of people with huge egos making a complete mess of this world. BiH was the start of it. Look what followed - a complete mess in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. And lets not forget about the genocides against Serbians in RSK and KiM.

And yet, the blgd regime (and its ever loyal media) gives its full support to dodic and his fellows, and continues to promote the milosevic/karadzic/mladic ideology.

there is a basic inability and general unwillingness of the serbian elite to admit to the truth, to take responsibility, to ask for forgiveness. whatever bits they have offered have all been forced or coerced by the west, incl and especially the arrest and extradition of all the worst and biggest war criminal villains. otherwise they'd all still be sitting in belgade or banja luka, fat and not so pretty...

meanwhile thousands of war criminals remain there, free and easy, and will never be prosecuted unless a democratic form of govt comes to serbia and so called rs.

a great shame upon you and your malicious historical relativism and genocide denial!

there are individuals in serbia that continue to fight the fascism -- god knows it isn't easy for them, and we know some of them and offer our support.

and for the beautiful ppl of sarajevo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh_AQUYvRvg

"In turn RTS was running non stop propaganda pieces on how Sarajevan Serbs were being held as hostages by Bosnian Muslums"

There were many, many concentration camps and illegal prisons run by the Muslims in Sarajevo. Did you ever do research of people like Jusuf Prazina and Ismet "Ćelo" Bajramović? They were just a few ex-cons and hardened criminals who ran paramilitaries in Sarajevo.

Also Sarajevo was DIVIDED and the front lines were fairly constant throughout the war. It was more of a stand-off than a siege. The UN, foreign media, diplomats, and Muslim politicians, were jetting in and out throughout the whole war and the UN was able to fuel and feed all their soldiers stationed there. Plus the Muslim army within Sarajevo became more organized and got more weapons despite the so-called siege.

It was the Muslim government which had their soldiers and police seal all the entrance and exits in the territory which they controlled.
People were trapped by the Muslims. On the Serbian-held territory of Sarajevo (which included some suburbs) people were free to leave.

Such a tragedy.
There is another tragedy: pan-islamism is extending, or as per a Bosnian Nasheed "tece islam na sve strane".
This is the enemy of the future, where all our freedoms and rights are awaiting replacement by Sharia.
But thanks to its behaviour in Visegrad, Srebrenica and Sarajevo, to quote just a few examples, Serbia and Serbs have been demonised for at least a generation to come, just when Christian Europe is at its most threatened.
Never was there a greater need for unity!

One view that seems to be lacking amongst western media reports are the positive implications of Bosnia (and also Mali) breaking apart. Afterall; Bosnia cannot function properly as it stands, and trying to centralise the current system will only marginalize the Serbs and Croats of Bosnia. Furthermore, Bosnia is the only nation on the planet (with the possible exception of North Korea) where the majority of its own population do not want it to exist. If Bosnia were dismantled, the remaining Bosniak state would finally gain an independence it has never experienced, and be able to create their own future, as of course would the Serbs and Croats.

Just a note to say that many Serbs had deep reservations about the bombardment of Sarajevo. In turn RTS was running non stop propaganda pieces on how Sarajevan Serbs were being held as hostages by Bosnian Muslums and how bombing Sarajevo was the only way to defend Christianity against Islamic fundamentalism.

Of course Serbia was never officially at war in Bosnia, at the same time we all knew that this was going on in a country that most of us still considered to be ours - Jugoslavija, so it was impossible that our state was not involved.

Those closer to the ground knew for example that as the J(N)A had retreated it had left heavy weapons to be used by the Bosnian Serbs, that many officers simply just transferred from the JA to the Bosnian Serb army.

In my opinion the bombardment of Sarajevo was a disgrace, as I don't support bombardment of civilian targets. Even excluding some high profile disputed bombings aside there were many instances of civilans being targeted in Sarajevo by bombs and snipers.

“There are some people in Bosnia-Herzegovina, even on the highest level, who will keep going and continue to want to see the state break apart, which was Radovan Karadžić’s original goal. "

No, his goal was to ethnically cleanse towns and regions and get more of the area for Serbs. But there are officials today who want to keep the status quo, of Bosnia being a federation of two entities with a lot of autonomy (and not much of a central government, due to all the quarrels and political fights)

n my opinion the bombardment of Sarajevo was a disgrace, as I don't support bombardment of civilian targets. Even excluding some high profile disputed bombings aside there were many instances of civilans being targeted in Sarajevo by bombs and snipers.
(bganon, 6 April 2012 13:22)
===============================

Just to clarify here, who do you blame for the civilians being targeted?
Is it only the Serbs or do you think others did the same? By your statement you imply it was only the Serbs so if this is not what you intended please clarify.
Take Markele for instance, do you think this was done by the Serbian side or do you agree with some that it was done by the Muslims themselves in order to gain sympathy?
Also the officers you refer to who stayed behind as part of the Serbian forces in Bosnia, were they officers from Serbia or were they locals who would've stayed there anyway because they lived there?
You don't seem to clarify very much indeed but you do bring in your righteous comments.
It would be great for once to hear from you if Serbs were to blame for the war in Bosnia or not.
Who do you blame? Was it Serb aggression or was is survival? What would you have the Serbs do? All the weapons they had were VJ weapons but Yugoslavia was also Bosnia so the weapons were theirs. Would you have the Serbs share those weapons with Muslims and Croats just to be fair?
This is a lot more complicated than just simply saying that the Serbs had a siege on Sarajevo and acted as aggressors.

If I understand the serbs correctly judging by the comments on one side you want to split up Bosnia because the majority of the population is against this creation, but in the same time serbs are willing to allow Kosovo it´s own independence even if over 90% of the population dont want to be part of Serbia? How does this equation go together? Why this hipocrisy?

"meanwhile thousands of war criminals remain there, free and easy, and will never be prosecuted unless a democratic form of govt comes to serbia and so called rs."
=========================

Thousands Roberto? Thousands? Who are these war criminals? Are you perhaps talking about every Serbs who took up arms in order to survive? So everyone who was part of Serbian forces is a criminal?
You really must stop taking the stuff from Thaci and Co. It will warp your mind even more.

Just a note to say that many Serbs had deep reservations about the bombardment of Sarajevo. In turn RTS was running non stop propaganda pieces on how Sarajevan Serbs were being held as hostages by Bosnian Muslums and how bombing Sarajevo was the only way to defend Christianity against Islamic fundamentalism.
================================

Was it propaganda bganon or was there truth in this?
If Serbia was not going to show what was happening to their brothers in Bosnia who was? Do you think that Serbs should not have had a voice?
You call it propaganda. Why? Was it all a lie?

If I understand the serbs correctly judging by the comments on one side you want to split up Bosnia because the majority of the population is against this creation, but in the same time serbs are willing to allow Kosovo it´s own independence even if over 90% of the population dont want to be part of Serbia? How does this equation go together? Why this hipocrisy?
(D, 6 April 2012 18:27)

Now Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro, BiH and Kosovo can break away from Yugoslvia, but the Serb must stay in all of these countries and be quiet; now why this hypocracy? I personally have absolutely nothing against the Albanians breaking away, but pray tell me how is Kosovo going to survive? Where are they going to find work? When you answer those questions then you will understand why Kosovo has to stay with Serbia.

Strange, no comment from Comm. Parrisson.

Those civilians killed in besieged Sarajevo about 25% were that Serbs did not want to leave their families and friends were killed by the criminal rebel Serb "army". The rebel Serbs had 172 criminal snipers shooting down civilian children ,women ,men in besieged Sarajevo for years we all know about it. Why Dodo of "Srpska" entity aka greater warmongering Serbia is not going after them he knows who they are that was a war crime and so many more pathetic. Like Radovan criminal leader of the minority Serbs said "Without Serbia, nothing would have happened, we don't have the resources and we would not have been able to make war."
Radovan Karadzic, former president of Republika Srpska, to the Assembly of the Republika Srpska, May 10, 1994. The day of the aggression on the country of Bosnia is getting world wide attention is remembered these past few days and unanimous it puts the blame squarely on the Serbs/Serbia check it for your self's.

So, you are saying that if Kosova/o is to be brought under Serbia again, Kosova/o citizens will all have jobs. Sign me up.
(Kosovo/a Serb, 7 April 2012 18:11)
The projection is that industry will open up in Serbia and by 2014 skilled and non skilled labour shortage will start to occur. So if the Kosovo burden is to be lightened on the EU Serbia has to allow these same Albanians to work for Serbs or work alongside them. That is what I am saying. Kosovo has nothing of value and what little there is will be used up and they will have to look after 1.2 million people. The EU is jerking the Albanians chain as they are going now where fast and this year will be the crunch time as the EU is no0 officially in a recession and that means bad news everywhere on that continent, but it means even worse news for the US. Ask yourself why didn’t Obama meet with Thaci? What he had no time; what not 5 minutes for a chat in the corridor? – no one is that busy - No the ship is turning and so must US policy – I’m not joking about this nor am I writing this for some type of propaganda as I have seen this at work before.

Now what happens to the Albanians in Serbia proper is another matter. They will look for work but who will give them a job? If it’s a multinational they might but where do they live? Is it safe for them to stay there? There are many more questions that need to be answered, but the EU will abandon the Albanians and leave them to their fate much like the Serbs in Kosovo.

Now Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro, BiH and Kosovo can break away from Yugoslvia, but the Serb must stay in all of these countries and be quiet; now why this hypocracy? I personally have absolutely nothing against the Albanians breaking away, but pray tell me how is Kosovo going to survive? Where are they going to find work? When you answer those questions then you will understand why Kosovo has to stay with Serbia.
(sj, 7 April 2012 01:46)

So, you are saying that if Kosova/o is to be brought under Serbia again, Kosova/o citizens will all have jobs. Sign me up.

"The projection is that industry will open up in Serbia and by 2014 skilled and non skilled labour shortage will start to occur. So if the Kosovo burden is to be lightened on the EU Serbia has to allow these same Albanians to work for Serbs or work alongside them. That is what I am saying. Kosovo has nothing of value and what little there is will be used up and they will have to look after 1.2 million people. The EU is jerking the Albanians chain as they are going now where fast and this year will be the crunch time as the EU is no0 officially in a recession and that means bad news everywhere on that continent, but it means even worse news for the US. Ask yourself why didn’t Obama meet with Thaci? What he had no time; what not 5 minutes for a chat in the corridor? – no one is that busy - No the ship is turning and so must US policy – I’m not joking about this nor am I writing this for some type of propaganda as I have seen this at work before.

Now what happens to the Albanians in Serbia proper is another matter. They will look for work but who will give them a job? If it’s a multinational they might but where do they live? Is it safe for them to stay there? There are many more questions that need to be answered, but the EU will abandon the Albanians and leave them to their fate much like the Serbs in Kosovo."
(sj, 8 April 2012 09:48)

Wow, I had never looked at it from that point of view. Never considered the Kosovo burden on the EU and the Serbian willingness to share that burden. 1.2 million mouths to feed at 85% unemployment, that makes 1.02 million unemployed. Who should all go to Serbia to look for jobs. Starting 2014 you said? Where exactly? Belgrade, Nis, Novi Sad? If you have more detailed info on jobs opening up in Serbia, be a sport and tell us where to send those 1.02 million unemployed Albanians.