“Serbia will not accept impossible conditions”

I am glad things are moving on regarding Serbia's future in EU.

However, among many other things, EU stands for certain standards in protecting minorities in member countries. President Tadic is right, Romania cannot ask for Belgrade to force Vlachs to declare themselves Romanians. What Romania asks is that those Vlachs who want to declare themselves Romanians to be permitted to do this, freely, and their rights as Romanians to be recognized and protected.

"Vlach" is derivated from the word Valah/Wallach/Olah, used by people in Europe to designate the Latin-language speakers in the Danube-basin. Germans were using Wallachs/Wallachians, Hungarians were reffering to Olahs, Italians were talking about Vlachi etc. But always, our ancestors were calling themselves Romanians (Rumani), not Vlachs. For example, Wallachia was the name used by foreigners for the Romanian principality between Carpathian Mountains and Danube + Black Sea, but the inhabitans were using the term "Tara Romaneasca", in Latin: "Terra Romana".
South of Danube, there are populations of Latin-language speakers, their languages being dialects of the Romanian language. These people are peacefully living in Greece, Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Serbia - as loyal citizens of their countries, but still trying to keep their language, traditions and Orthodox faith.

Regarding Serbia, what Romania hopes to get is just that the so-called Vlachs from Timok Valley will have the right to declare themselves as Romanians, if so they want, without fear of persecution and denial of their language (which is Romanian - there is no Vlach language). By the way, the farther one goes South of Balkans, the Romanian dialects spoken are getting more distant from the standard Romanian, therefore the language spoken by Vlachs in Timok is practically Romanian, the region being so close to Romania (closer is just Voivodina). So, Romania asks only that Serbia accept the free will of some of its citizens, without imposing them a name ("Vlachs") if they feel that "Romanian" reflects better their identity. It is exactly what we, Romanians, are doing in our country, supporting the national identity of Serbs and the other 17 minorities, from Hungarians, Armenians and Slovaks to Greeks and Albanians, and from Turks and Tatars to Serbs, Germans and Italians (yes, indeed).
Unfortunately, so far Serbia has only recognized the rights of the Romanian minority in the autonomous Vojvodina Province. The designation of "Vlachs" as different from Romanians is inherited from Communist Yugoslavia, when was serving the goal of splitting the Romanian minority in half. There were complicated times, not here the place to discuss it in detail. However, after the fall of Communism and Milosevic, it was normal that Romanians in Timok Valley to feel free to assume their Romanian identity. Are they wrong? Isn't Serbia a democracy? Aren't we, Serbs and Romanians, the best friends in the area? Isn't Romania opposing Kosovo UDI? Even yesterday, in Bruxelles,(quote) "the EU countries that have not recognized the Kosovo Albanian unilateral declaration of independence made it clear they were against the EC proposal to produce the Stabilization and Association Agreement feasibility study for Kosovo, as has been demanded by some member-states."

So, to conclude, Romania does not want any territory from Serbia, and nothing more than what EU standards are granting in terms of minority rights: we only want Romanians in Serbia (those who consider themselves as such) to live normal lives. Of course, if somebody wants to call himself or herself "Vlach", so be it, but those who consider themselves as Romanians should be allowed this, without pressure or discrimination. And Serbia can be sure - there will never be citizens more loyal to Belgrade than Serb citizens of Romanian nationality - as we consider the Romanian citizens of Serbian nationality as most loyal to Bucharest.


Last but not least: all this issue described above should have remained a matter of discussion between Romania and Serbia, in the old tradition of friendly relations between our countries. It seems that Belgrade, being focused so much on Kosovo issue, has neglected to uphold the promises made, in recent past, to Bucharest. It is OK, we understand how important is Kosovo for Serbia. However, Romanian diplomats thought that a good moment to signal that they still expect results from Belgrade, not only words, was the meeting in Bruxelles. It may be that another signal was given to some countries in Western Europe (Holland) regarding their rejection of Schengen inclusion for Romania (and Bulgaria). All this diplomatic ballet is normal business in EU - each country must protect and advance its interests. Some countries are bullying others in doing this or that; some others are forced to wait for opportunities. One may notice that Western diplomats did not rejected Romania's demands, but only complained that these issues "were not expressed until now" by Romania - which is correct, Bucharest didn't want to embarrass Belgrade, but waited for Serbia to fulfill its engagements (last time, expressed when president Basescu visited president Tadic, in Belgrade).
However, I am sure that it will not be Romania the obstacle for Serbia's path towards EU. The big issue is Kosovo, but this is the playground of the 'big ones' in EU, and it seems they act mostly on behalf of Pristina, since they have recognized the "Kosovo Republic".

Serbia is seen here in Romania as one of our best friends in the region and Serbian people is regarded as very brave.
All this issue has nothing to do with the access of Serbia to EU, and we should apologize if this is seen like that.
The issue raised yesterday by Romania has nothing to do with Serbia and its access to Romania but it was only about tactics needed to force EU member states and especially the Nederlands to accept Romania into the Schengen region. The Nederlands is the only EU country that is against Romania into Schengen. The game is like this : You don't accept Romania into Schengen, then we will impose various barriers for Serbia to enter EU. Nothing to do with Serbia for real, only to put some pressure on EU and especially the Nederlands.
This is what most of the Romanian newspapers see things and even some ministers form the Romanian government.
Now, guess what?
After yesterday's pressure imposed by Romania regarding Serbia's access to EU, the Schengen agenda for Romania was taken serious and will be discussed at the EU Summit on 1-2 March.
Hopefully both objectives will be achieved, access of Romania into Schengen and access of Serbia into EU.
Sorry for this, it was nothing personal.

Catalin from Romania

@Olli
The problem with vlahs-romanians from Serbia is the double standard used by Serbian govs. In Voivodina region the Romanian community (30.000 aprox) has schools and religious service in their native language, also they have radio programms in Romanian (even we are talking about fiew hours per week) and newspapers. Nobody died because of that.
In Timoc area (NE Serbia) they don't have any of those. Furthermore, they are forced to put Serbian names to their own kids.
They had big problems in building the first two romanian churches.
Recently, the Serbian gov. invented "the Vlach alphabet", with some kirilik letters, when nobody asked that. Romanians use the latin alphabet.
Is is a wrong idea that Romania never told anything about Vlachs issue and suddenly popped up now. There are more than 20 years of negociations with Serbian govs. but it was like we talked to the walls.
We simply ask Serbia to give them same rights they gave to Romanians in Voivodina. We are not even asking to give them same rights that Serbian minority has in Romania (beyond UE requests).
Why is so difficult to do the right thing?

“Serbia will not accept impossible conditions''??!?!?!?
Lol
It seems that some people in Brussels granted You the permission to use such a rhetoric for domestic consumption.
Election time President,isn't it???

@ trizo
and Olli

Cristian has answered already to your questions. I just want to add some clarifications:

Romanians in Voivodina are considered a nationality, and as such they receive support from the Belgrade Government, as granted by law. Vlachs in Timoc Valley are considered just an ethnic group, therefore they receive no support from the Govt. The only difference between Romanians in Voivodina and Vlachs in Timoc Valley is the place - Voivodina is in Northern Serbia, while Timoc Valley is in the East. Despite the fact they speak same language (Romanian) and are of same Orthodox faith, local and federal Serb authorities are persecuting those in Timoc valley who affirm their Romanian identity - probably out of sensitivity on national issues (something understandable, after Kosovo debacle). However, in Timoc Valley people were beaten, their houses were targeted with firearms, priests who tried to service in Romanian were threatened, churches did not receive construction permit etc. It may be that such actions are the work of extremists. However, authorities should take appropriate measures, because this is not normal. And this is not to be accepted in EU.

We understand, in Romania, that it is difficult for Serb people to overcome nationalist prejudices aquired during decades of Communism. We had the same problems in Romania, in the beginning of 90s, when we started to accept that 5% of Romanian citizens are ethnic Hungarians, and gradually we and them negociated (sometimes we even fought, thanks God nobody died!) and finally their political party joined the government, and they've got all necessary rights and local power to upheld their identity in the regions they are in majority (two out of 40 Romanian counties). All this Kosovo complication is not helping, I'm sure. But Serbia has to accept that the only way to receive is to give. Serbs cannot seriously ask Kosovo Albanians to grant rights for Kosovo Serbs if Belgrade is not ready to acknowledge same rights for minorities in Serbia.

One development I consider to be a sad one was the announcement, in Belgrade, of the "Vlach" language. This is stupid. Let's say Americans will baptize their language "Americanish", just to offend the Britons... This is the Communist-style strategy to deal with minorities: divide them, pressure them, invent them (if necessary). Mr. Tadic says "everybody is free to declare himself Romanian or Vlach, we cannot forcefully change all Vlachs in Romanians". OK, BUT Bucharest is asking NOT for this; only that those Vlachs who consider themselves Romanian to be permitted and recognized as such. Instead, Serbs (with the cooperation of some Vlachs, who maybe are having good intentions) proclaim the "Vlach language", and keep all Romanian-speakers in Timoc Valley under this label. Is this a solution? With all due respect, no.


@ bganon
What I am telling here is based on discussions with several Romanian diplomats (I am journalist), starting with 1997. The issue of Vlachs rights was discussed with Belgrade for the last 20 years. Most of the time, Serbia promised to do various things, and Romania got only words. We postponed and postponed to adopt stronger discourse, in order not to jeopardize our friendship (and also, last years were tough for Serbia, and a friend should take this into consideration). But, as the time passed and with the Kosovo UDI crisis in 2008, we got a feeling that for Serbs, Romania is good only when we oppose Kosovo independence. It is frustrating to meet such lack of understanding coming from exactly those you befriend and support. On the other hand, Romanian media also let things to be delayed: it took a long time for the issue to enter the public agenda in Romania, because Romanians really consider Serbs as friends and we are not used with unfriendly gestures from Belgrade. But the pressure is real upon the Romanian/Vlach activists in Timoc valley, and they complain more and more; things started to show up in media, and politicians cannot ignore it. We understand that Kosovo is important, but we think everybody is important, especially in EU - Serbs, Romanians, Vlachs. And everybody should enjoy the possibility to develop his or her own identity.

On the other hand, we have this situation with Schengen agenda for Romania - as my fellow Catalin said, Romanian media speculates that Bucharest wanted to give a signal to Netherlands (and not only). I believe that a fair assumption may be that Romanian diplomats have seen and used an opportunity to both remind Belgrade that things need to be done in Timoc Valley, and also show Netherlands that Romania has a voice in EU (as everybody should have, not only the big, powerfull countries).

Do you remember Slovenia 2 YEARS AGO with Croatia ? Do you remember Poland during the Kaczinsky regime ? ...The new rules in EU is ..How much is worthy my yes vote ?...this is one of the reason why all is falling apart...
(Luigi, 29 February 2012 15:18)

You are certainly correct. This has to be the largest shortcoming of the EU, and will absolutely prevent greatness. This idea that everything must be unanimous and everyone can veto everything is crazy in an organization with as many members as the EU. They need to switch to some sort of super-majority (2/3 vote) for major things such as accepting new countries.

There are People wondering why a friend of Serbia like Romania is blocking Serbia’s European Union Candidate Status, and the reason is because Romania is Serbia’s friend.

Romania knows that if Tadic and Company are re-elected, then they will give up Kosovo, and whether Serbia joins the European Union for that or is tricked, is another story.

We know that there is a United Nations Six Point Plan for Kosovo, which is the Law, but that the Kosovo Albanians wanted a Four Point Plan, and now Tadic and Company want a Four Point Plan.

Of Course the wording of Tadic’s Four Point Plan is different to the Kosovo Albanians’ Four Point Plan, which we all know is the Ahtisaari Plan in disguise.

We know that the Serbian Negotiator Borislav Stefanovic said that there was no pitfall in the footnote for Pristina’s regional representation, because after the Election is will be dropped or changed, and Serbia will recognize Kosovo.

The European Union has said that Serbia has fulfilled all of the Conditions, and this is true, as far as they are concerned.

Those Conditions are that Serbia’s Constitution Demands an Election, and the European Union want their Puppets who will give away Kosovo to be the next Serbian Government.

The SPS has said that they are very comfortable with having the LDP in a Coalition Government, and we know that the LDP would give away Kosovo very easily and sweetly to please their European Union Masters.

We know that the European Union Negotiator does not want any more negotiations between Belgrade and Pristina until after the next Election.

This is because the European Union are happy with this false display of Serbian Victory before the Election to help their Puppets, but after the Election Tadic and Company will give away Kosovo.

Tadic said that Serbia will not accept impossible conditions, but Tadic and company know that is very possible to give away Kosovo if they win the next Election, but they will not tell you that.

A question for our Romanian posters. Why did the friendly Romanian government wait until the last minute to issue this demand to Serbia?

Was it a friendly gesture, or an attempt through blackmail to force another country into changing position without any cost?

Secondly how will it be possible to force the Vlachs into agreeing they are in fact Romanian and not Vlachs? Surely that is a question for the Vlachs in Serbia?

For a 'friendly' gesture from an EU country, this kind of stinks like Balkan tactics.

Tadic crashed on KSerbs and implicitly recognized Kosovo to fulfill EU (Germany) demands and increase a little bit Serbia's probability to get candidate status...

KSerbs are pure victims of all this activity, I feel for them...

“We understand Romania. However, we cannot give up on our principles,” Tadić noted.
If we'll go at various sources:"Vlach is a blanket term covering several modern Latin peoples descending from the Latinised population in Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe. English variations on the name include: Wallachians, Walla, Wlachs, Wallachs, Vlahs, Olahs or Ulahs. Groups that have historically been called Vlachs include: modern-day Romanians or Daco-Romanians, Aromanians or Macedo-Romanians, Morlachs, Megleno-Romanians and Istro-Romanians. Since the creation of the Romanian state, the term in English has mostly been used for those living outside Romania."
ROMANIA is a model in EU for how WE treat minorities , Serbs including.VLACHS are ROMANIANS and we Romanians want just reciprocity, equal treatment to Romanian minority in Timoc as well in Vojvodina, for example. ROMANIA is a model in EU for how WE treat minorities , Serbs including. Or do you think it's time to lose the last sincere friend in this area, WHO NEVER WANTED YOUR EARTH or from other ???Serbs , our neighbors, if you want to be respected, you need to respect others, ESPECIALLY Romanian minority from Serbia with the SAME CHRISTIANITY ORTHODOX FAITH...we don't want block your next accession in EU,we Romanians want just reciprocity, equal treatment to Romanian minority in Timoc as well in Vojvodina, for example.And ROMANIA when he became an EU candidate country in 1999 made ​​a lot of sacrifices and compromises that meet standards integration,treatment of minorities(9,5% of total population)included...we entered in "the club" in 2007.We ROMANIANS have built and Holocaust Memorial in Bucharest!!!!!, for jews and gypsies!!!!WHERE IS DISCRIMINATION against jews and gypsies in ROMANIA????As well party of the Hungarian minority(5% official census 2011 from total population) named udmr it was and it's in various Romanian
governments from 1996 till now.SANATATE!

Alexandru M.,

I thank you for the best writing this far about the problem.

Your text suggests me to ask you:

Is someone forbidding / stopping so willing Vlachs to register themselves as of Romanian ethnicity?

If so, is this a problem between Vlachs and the state of Serbia, or between Vlachs who want to registered as of Romanian and Vlachs who don't want, or between Vlachs and those who already are registered as Serbia's Romanians?

What concretely is the problem?

Olli

(Alexandru M., 29 February 2012 09:48)

Can you please explain the actual issue?

What is the REAL problem? Are they beaten up or abused or mistreated?

Romania wants the Vlachs who want to be called Romanian, recognised as Romanian? And....?

How do you believe they are treated differently as being called Vlach minority or Romanian minority?

Is it just over a name or is there a lot more involved in terms of "rights"??

The issue is that Serbian government refuses any rights for the Romanian minority in Timoc Valley. No schools, no religion services, no newspapers, no radiso, no television, imposing to use only serbian names after all family names have been serbianised. After 1945 the Serbians imposed the name Vlachs after using Romanians til 1945, in a region that NEVER belonged to Serbia until 1830 and where the religous souvereignity was practiced by the Metropolia in Bucharest for centuries till 1830.
These rights are DENIED by Serbian Governement and although Serbian Government promised improvements to Vlachs/Romanians and Romanian Government, this never happened and thought this would go throu again...
The Serbian government infiltartaed agents in the newly created Concil of Vlachs who declared themselves Romanias and are asking all these rights. This is a typical dictatorial antidemocratic action. The „Vlachs”, who do not feel Romanian, do not need the rights above, do not need to be in any organization to claim this. Continuing this antidemocratic politics, the Serbian government following a russian-soviet stalinistic methodod overnight invented a new language with a new alphabet and called it ”Vlach language”. The Governments who are using such russian-soviet stalinistic methods do not have a place in EU.
The Serbian Government has to grant all claimed rights mentioned above to whose Vlachs who are asking this and not to artificially create or manipulate organisations, languages to prove that the Vlachs are not Romanian.

What are in fact the „principles” of the Serbian Government?
Those which led to the bloody war in Yugoslavia? Those which led that even their brothers in Montenegro separated from the Government in Belgrade?

It is time to wake up, Serbia and see yourself in a true mirror.... cure yourself from the cancer which infested your society and mind so that EVERYBODY who could, SEPARATED from Serbia. Revise your principles, the ones recognised till now produced a disaster.

I am glad things are moving on regarding Serbia's future in EU.

However, among many other things, EU stands for certain standards in protecting minorities in member countries. President Tadic is right, Romania cannot ask for Belgrade to force Vlachs to declare themselves Romanians. What Romania asks is that those Vlachs who want to declare themselves Romanians to be permitted to do this, freely, and their rights as Romanians to be recognized and protected.

"Vlach" is derivated from the word Valah/Wallach/Olah, used by people in Europe to designate the Latin-language speakers in the Danube-basin. Germans were using Wallachs/Wallachians, Hungarians were reffering to Olahs, Italians were talking about Vlachi etc. But always, our ancestors were calling themselves Romanians (Rumani), not Vlachs. For example, Wallachia was the name used by foreigners for the Romanian principality between Carpathian Mountains and Danube + Black Sea, but the inhabitans were using the term "Tara Romaneasca", in Latin: "Terra Romana".
South of Danube, there are populations of Latin-language speakers, their languages being dialects of the Romanian language. These people are peacefully living in Greece, Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Serbia - as loyal citizens of their countries, but still trying to keep their language, traditions and Orthodox faith.

Regarding Serbia, what Romania hopes to get is just that the so-called Vlachs from Timok Valley will have the right to declare themselves as Romanians, if so they want, without fear of persecution and denial of their language (which is Romanian - there is no Vlach language). By the way, the farther one goes South of Balkans, the Romanian dialects spoken are getting more distant from the standard Romanian, therefore the language spoken by Vlachs in Timok is practically Romanian, the region being so close to Romania (closer is just Voivodina). So, Romania asks only that Serbia accept the free will of some of its citizens, without imposing them a name ("Vlachs") if they feel that "Romanian" reflects better their identity. It is exactly what we, Romanians, are doing in our country, supporting the national identity of Serbs and the other 17 minorities, from Hungarians, Armenians and Slovaks to Greeks and Albanians, and from Turks and Tatars to Serbs, Germans and Italians (yes, indeed).
Unfortunately, so far Serbia has only recognized the rights of the Romanian minority in the autonomous Vojvodina Province. The designation of "Vlachs" as different from Romanians is inherited from Communist Yugoslavia, when was serving the goal of splitting the Romanian minority in half. There were complicated times, not here the place to discuss it in detail. However, after the fall of Communism and Milosevic, it was normal that Romanians in Timok Valley to feel free to assume their Romanian identity. Are they wrong? Isn't Serbia a democracy? Aren't we, Serbs and Romanians, the best friends in the area? Isn't Romania opposing Kosovo UDI? Even yesterday, in Bruxelles,(quote) "the EU countries that have not recognized the Kosovo Albanian unilateral declaration of independence made it clear they were against the EC proposal to produce the Stabilization and Association Agreement feasibility study for Kosovo, as has been demanded by some member-states."

So, to conclude, Romania does not want any territory from Serbia, and nothing more than what EU standards are granting in terms of minority rights: we only want Romanians in Serbia (those who consider themselves as such) to live normal lives. Of course, if somebody wants to call himself or herself "Vlach", so be it, but those who consider themselves as Romanians should be allowed this, without pressure or discrimination. And Serbia can be sure - there will never be citizens more loyal to Belgrade than Serb citizens of Romanian nationality - as we consider the Romanian citizens of Serbian nationality as most loyal to Bucharest.


Last but not least: all this issue described above should have remained a matter of discussion between Romania and Serbia, in the old tradition of friendly relations between our countries. It seems that Belgrade, being focused so much on Kosovo issue, has neglected to uphold the promises made, in recent past, to Bucharest. It is OK, we understand how important is Kosovo for Serbia. However, Romanian diplomats thought that a good moment to signal that they still expect results from Belgrade, not only words, was the meeting in Bruxelles. It may be that another signal was given to some countries in Western Europe (Holland) regarding their rejection of Schengen inclusion for Romania (and Bulgaria). All this diplomatic ballet is normal business in EU - each country must protect and advance its interests. Some countries are bullying others in doing this or that; some others are forced to wait for opportunities. One may notice that Western diplomats did not rejected Romania's demands, but only complained that these issues "were not expressed until now" by Romania - which is correct, Bucharest didn't want to embarrass Belgrade, but waited for Serbia to fulfill its engagements (last time, expressed when president Basescu visited president Tadic, in Belgrade).
However, I am sure that it will not be Romania the obstacle for Serbia's path towards EU. The big issue is Kosovo, but this is the playground of the 'big ones' in EU, and it seems they act mostly on behalf of Pristina, since they have recognized the "Kosovo Republic".

@bganon,

Romania waited until the last minute to threaten to block to draw attention to the issue. It is clear that it will receive more publicity and more attention if they upheld the decision to grant Serbia EU candidate status.

I believe this was a genuine reason and a common tactic to get results.

The Romanians feel this issue has been neglected recently.


Now, what I don't understand is what the real problem is. I think that the Vlachs who want to be Serbs or Vlachs can do so. The ones who want to be considered Romanian can do so. Serbia houses both ethnic minorities.

So what is the real problem???

@ aaayyy
"IMHO most Moldavians are quite satisfied with their Moldavian identity".

I know for sure that MOST of Romanians are, also, very happy with the existence of the Moldavian identity (these are the result of public opinion polls, for several years already). The idea of re-uniting Romania with Moldavia is absent from Romanian public discourse, save some crazy nationalists that are not even represented in the parliament (the so-called "Greater Romania Party"). We are confortable with the existence of the sister-country Moldavia Republic, and we support its territorial integrity and sovereignty, also over the territory of the Eastern, separatist, Moscow-encouraged, self-proclaimed "Transdniestr Republic". In fact, most of Romanian opposition towards Kosovo UDI is due to the need to protect Moldavia Republic borders (if we recognize Kosovo, we will give Russians arguments to ask for recognition of the "Transdniestr Republic", their puppet-state).
On the other hand, from a practical perspective, nobody in Romania wants couple hundred thousands of Rusofon population in its borders (which will come through any scenario of uniting Moldavia Republic and Romania). The decision to recognize Moldavia Republic as sovereign and separate, and abandon any goal of changing the borders was the best decision taken by Romania in the beginning of 90s. One may see the results: today, Romania is in NATO, EU, and so on.

Regarding the churches (or schools) for Vlachs in Timoc Valley:

It is customary in a democracy, for the state to cover the needs of all his citizens, because all of them are paying taxes (directly, such as local taxes or the revenue tax, or indirectly, e.g. the VAT tax). I believe Serbia is a democratic country 9otherwise it would not seek EU membership), therefore I am sure its Govt. will do the best for all its citizens, regardless their nationality, language, ethnicity etc. As long as Romanians/Vlachs are paying taxes to Serbia budget, I believe it's normal for them to expect to get some support in building schools and churches in Timoc Valley, in which to use their language freely. If this support will prove to be too much burden for Serbia (since it is a poor country, like Romania, and also has to take care of the financial needs of Kosovo Serbs), I am sure that alternative options will be found (donations from local people, sponsorship from Romania etc.). However, from my information (I am journalist) in Romania we cover such expenses from the public budget, in which all citizens, including the Serbs and the other 17 minorities citizens are contributing. Actually, the 18 minority deputies present in the lower chamber of the Romanian parliament (they are appointed directly by their communities) are quite active in lobbying for this Museum of X Minority to be renovated or that Cultural center of Y Minority to be erected etc. I understand that such deputies with reserved seats representing minorities do not exist in Serbian parliament (although, funny enough, the system of reserved seats was imposed to Kosovo Assembly), but I am sure that Belgrade has all necessary information regarding the needs of Romanians/Vlachs from Timoc Valley. After all, we do not speak of millions of people here, but something under 100,000 persons.

EU ministers should ask themselves...How serbia is gaiven preliminary approval to Serbia's Union candidacy and BiH, Kosovo,and Macedonia are left behind .... when was the last time any other politician said the same….Republika Srpska was not formed in 1991 but was forming its self between 1991 and 1995 on Murder, rape, and war crimes against humanity against citizens of BiH by help from Serbia and Milosevic and his Government and same people today run Serbian army and government....….The only military economy in Balkan’s is Serbia…..and that is why 1990’s wars in Balkans happened so the serbian economy can flourish…we people of balkans must ask our selves why? and start the new era of reconciliation and one day hope that one day world does not have REpublics like srpska that are founded on GENOCIDE…I guess by todey news we will wait long time...Peace to all

@Olli
If we are talking about the history of writing in Romania we should go further back, to Tartaria writing (5500 BC), believed to be the oldest writing on earth, but still subject of debates. That writing was related to Turdas(Ro)-Vinca (present Srb) neolitic culture. Of course, at that time there were no Serbs in this region.
Later, the Dacians used both latin and greek alpfabets and this continued in the first millenium AD.
The cyrilic alphabet (greek origin) came together with religious ortodox books.
The first cyrilic document on Romanian teritory is dated at 1392 a.d. in southern Romania (Valachia). In Moldova the latin alphabet was used till 1439 a.d. when Moldavian king Alexandru cel Bun officialised the use of cyrilic, trying to stop the influence of Catolic Church in that area.
In paralel, the greek and latin alphabet continued to be used, mostly in trading documents.
In Transilvania, cyrilic alphabet was never used excepting some ortodox monasteries under Valachian/Moldavian influence.
The return to latin alphabet was decided by king Alexandru Ioan Cuza in 1862; the cyrilic alphabet continued to be used in some monasteries.
So, in the last 2000 years Romanians used cyrilic alphabet some 450 years and only on half of our today teritory.

Comming back to Vlachs-Romanians, Serbian gov. didn't talk about cyrilic alphabet but an invented "Vlachian alphabet", with some cyrilic letters and some invented letters for the specific romanian phonetic.
If the Romanians from Timoc area will decide to use latin or other alphabet it should be their own free decision. With latin alphabet will be much easier for us to provide them the books they need.

Do you remember Slovenia 2 YEARS AGO with Croatia ? Do you remember Poland during the Kaczinsky regime ? ...The new rules in EU is ..How much is worthy my yes vote ?...this is one of the reason why all is falling apart...

Cristian & Alexandru M.,

I appreciate your thorough explanations of issues at hand.

It's difficult to understand Belgrade motives for not taking care of this very very small problem in due time. Or is the character of this problem a local one; are talking about a municipality level issue?

It's natural that solving the issue will bring some financial costs. But good agreements will always be cheaper than unsolved problems.

Also this matter of forcing Serbian names to people (children). Quite unbelievable! Especially as we talk about areas of very rich ethnic population -a matter that is a great resource.

Altogether this is a minor problem that Belgrade can take care of pretty quickly, in case there are no hidden issues on either side. One strength of Serbia is its ethnically rich population. When taken well care of, it's a fruitful ground for material and immaterial wealth.

Do Vlachs/Romanians in Serbia want Serbia to pay for Romanian schools and churches or do they want to pay themselves?

An interesting point in the issue:

I found a Romanian university professor who told me that before Romanian language started gradually to use Latin alphabets, around mid 19th century till the end of 19th century, cyrillic alphabets were used. And that very well is possible that some Vlach-Romanians have continued to use cyrillic alphabet. And therefore Romanian written in cyrillic is not a completely artificial creation.

So what's the role of Belgrade in this? Does Belgrade help keeping the old tradition or does it force an artificial one on people?

After learning more about this situation from the Romanians on this website I would like to say that I am of the opinion that Serbia's local government in the Timoc Valley area should do the right thing and provide minority assistance.

I think Romanians are our brothers and there should never be a problem to build a Romanian church or Romanian radio channel to maintain the Vlachs' cultural and social ties to their heritage.

I hope the issue is sorted out & residents in Timoc Valley feel a part of Serbia whilst also maintaining what is important to their culture.

In regards to what Caitlin the Romanian said, it sounds like this issue was more about Holland and the visa issue with Romania? I can understand using this moment for Romania's own political issues and to be honest I don't really care if the candidate status is awarded today, tomorrow or in 10 years. So no problems there.

Veliki pozdrav braci na Romaniji!

"following a russian-soviet stalinistic methodod"
--------------
I've always had a feeling that Romania is much more interested in Moldavians declaring themselves Romanians than Moldavians themselves. Romania is just a little bit jealous. IMHO most Moldavians are quite satisfied with their Moldavian identity.

Cristian,

Thanks for info. It's been good to learn about the issue.

Never visited the Timoc area this far. I think it's my project during the coming summer.

hope that one day world does not have REpublics like srpska that are founded on GENOCIDE…I guess by todey news we will wait long time...Peace to all
(Mile, Zagreb, 1 March 2012 07:12)

That would be bad for you,because in the very same moment Croatia,which is a country based upon the genocide on its Italian and Serb minority,should immediately disappear!
The fact that Croats ran the only concentration camp in WW2 outside Nazi Germany speaks volumes!

A question for our Romanian posters. Why did the friendly Romanian government wait until the last minute to issue this demand to Serbia?

Was it a friendly gesture, or an attempt through blackmail to force another country into changing position without any cost?

Secondly how will it be possible to force the Vlachs into agreeing they are in fact Romanian and not Vlachs? Surely that is a question for the Vlachs in Serbia?

For a 'friendly' gesture from an EU country, this kind of stinks like Balkan tactics.

(Alexandru M., 29 February 2012 09:48)

Can you please explain the actual issue?

What is the REAL problem? Are they beaten up or abused or mistreated?

Romania wants the Vlachs who want to be called Romanian, recognised as Romanian? And....?

How do you believe they are treated differently as being called Vlach minority or Romanian minority?

Is it just over a name or is there a lot more involved in terms of "rights"??

@bganon,

Romania waited until the last minute to threaten to block to draw attention to the issue. It is clear that it will receive more publicity and more attention if they upheld the decision to grant Serbia EU candidate status.

I believe this was a genuine reason and a common tactic to get results.

The Romanians feel this issue has been neglected recently.


Now, what I don't understand is what the real problem is. I think that the Vlachs who want to be Serbs or Vlachs can do so. The ones who want to be considered Romanian can do so. Serbia houses both ethnic minorities.

So what is the real problem???

“We understand Romania. However, we cannot give up on our principles,” Tadić noted.
If we'll go at various sources:"Vlach is a blanket term covering several modern Latin peoples descending from the Latinised population in Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe. English variations on the name include: Wallachians, Walla, Wlachs, Wallachs, Vlahs, Olahs or Ulahs. Groups that have historically been called Vlachs include: modern-day Romanians or Daco-Romanians, Aromanians or Macedo-Romanians, Morlachs, Megleno-Romanians and Istro-Romanians. Since the creation of the Romanian state, the term in English has mostly been used for those living outside Romania."
ROMANIA is a model in EU for how WE treat minorities , Serbs including.VLACHS are ROMANIANS and we Romanians want just reciprocity, equal treatment to Romanian minority in Timoc as well in Vojvodina, for example. ROMANIA is a model in EU for how WE treat minorities , Serbs including. Or do you think it's time to lose the last sincere friend in this area, WHO NEVER WANTED YOUR EARTH or from other ???Serbs , our neighbors, if you want to be respected, you need to respect others, ESPECIALLY Romanian minority from Serbia with the SAME CHRISTIANITY ORTHODOX FAITH...we don't want block your next accession in EU,we Romanians want just reciprocity, equal treatment to Romanian minority in Timoc as well in Vojvodina, for example.And ROMANIA when he became an EU candidate country in 1999 made ​​a lot of sacrifices and compromises that meet standards integration,treatment of minorities(9,5% of total population)included...we entered in "the club" in 2007.We ROMANIANS have built and Holocaust Memorial in Bucharest!!!!!, for jews and gypsies!!!!WHERE IS DISCRIMINATION against jews and gypsies in ROMANIA????As well party of the Hungarian minority(5% official census 2011 from total population) named udmr it was and it's in various Romanian
governments from 1996 till now.SANATATE!

There are People wondering why a friend of Serbia like Romania is blocking Serbia’s European Union Candidate Status, and the reason is because Romania is Serbia’s friend.

Romania knows that if Tadic and Company are re-elected, then they will give up Kosovo, and whether Serbia joins the European Union for that or is tricked, is another story.

We know that there is a United Nations Six Point Plan for Kosovo, which is the Law, but that the Kosovo Albanians wanted a Four Point Plan, and now Tadic and Company want a Four Point Plan.

Of Course the wording of Tadic’s Four Point Plan is different to the Kosovo Albanians’ Four Point Plan, which we all know is the Ahtisaari Plan in disguise.

We know that the Serbian Negotiator Borislav Stefanovic said that there was no pitfall in the footnote for Pristina’s regional representation, because after the Election is will be dropped or changed, and Serbia will recognize Kosovo.

The European Union has said that Serbia has fulfilled all of the Conditions, and this is true, as far as they are concerned.

Those Conditions are that Serbia’s Constitution Demands an Election, and the European Union want their Puppets who will give away Kosovo to be the next Serbian Government.

The SPS has said that they are very comfortable with having the LDP in a Coalition Government, and we know that the LDP would give away Kosovo very easily and sweetly to please their European Union Masters.

We know that the European Union Negotiator does not want any more negotiations between Belgrade and Pristina until after the next Election.

This is because the European Union are happy with this false display of Serbian Victory before the Election to help their Puppets, but after the Election Tadic and Company will give away Kosovo.

Tadic said that Serbia will not accept impossible conditions, but Tadic and company know that is very possible to give away Kosovo if they win the next Election, but they will not tell you that.

Alexandru M.,

I thank you for the best writing this far about the problem.

Your text suggests me to ask you:

Is someone forbidding / stopping so willing Vlachs to register themselves as of Romanian ethnicity?

If so, is this a problem between Vlachs and the state of Serbia, or between Vlachs who want to registered as of Romanian and Vlachs who don't want, or between Vlachs and those who already are registered as Serbia's Romanians?

What concretely is the problem?

Olli

Tadic crashed on KSerbs and implicitly recognized Kosovo to fulfill EU (Germany) demands and increase a little bit Serbia's probability to get candidate status...

KSerbs are pure victims of all this activity, I feel for them...

I am glad things are moving on regarding Serbia's future in EU.

However, among many other things, EU stands for certain standards in protecting minorities in member countries. President Tadic is right, Romania cannot ask for Belgrade to force Vlachs to declare themselves Romanians. What Romania asks is that those Vlachs who want to declare themselves Romanians to be permitted to do this, freely, and their rights as Romanians to be recognized and protected.

"Vlach" is derivated from the word Valah/Wallach/Olah, used by people in Europe to designate the Latin-language speakers in the Danube-basin. Germans were using Wallachs/Wallachians, Hungarians were reffering to Olahs, Italians were talking about Vlachi etc. But always, our ancestors were calling themselves Romanians (Rumani), not Vlachs. For example, Wallachia was the name used by foreigners for the Romanian principality between Carpathian Mountains and Danube + Black Sea, but the inhabitans were using the term "Tara Romaneasca", in Latin: "Terra Romana".
South of Danube, there are populations of Latin-language speakers, their languages being dialects of the Romanian language. These people are peacefully living in Greece, Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Serbia - as loyal citizens of their countries, but still trying to keep their language, traditions and Orthodox faith.

Regarding Serbia, what Romania hopes to get is just that the so-called Vlachs from Timok Valley will have the right to declare themselves as Romanians, if so they want, without fear of persecution and denial of their language (which is Romanian - there is no Vlach language). By the way, the farther one goes South of Balkans, the Romanian dialects spoken are getting more distant from the standard Romanian, therefore the language spoken by Vlachs in Timok is practically Romanian, the region being so close to Romania (closer is just Voivodina). So, Romania asks only that Serbia accept the free will of some of its citizens, without imposing them a name ("Vlachs") if they feel that "Romanian" reflects better their identity. It is exactly what we, Romanians, are doing in our country, supporting the national identity of Serbs and the other 17 minorities, from Hungarians, Armenians and Slovaks to Greeks and Albanians, and from Turks and Tatars to Serbs, Germans and Italians (yes, indeed).
Unfortunately, so far Serbia has only recognized the rights of the Romanian minority in the autonomous Vojvodina Province. The designation of "Vlachs" as different from Romanians is inherited from Communist Yugoslavia, when was serving the goal of splitting the Romanian minority in half. There were complicated times, not here the place to discuss it in detail. However, after the fall of Communism and Milosevic, it was normal that Romanians in Timok Valley to feel free to assume their Romanian identity. Are they wrong? Isn't Serbia a democracy? Aren't we, Serbs and Romanians, the best friends in the area? Isn't Romania opposing Kosovo UDI? Even yesterday, in Bruxelles,(quote) "the EU countries that have not recognized the Kosovo Albanian unilateral declaration of independence made it clear they were against the EC proposal to produce the Stabilization and Association Agreement feasibility study for Kosovo, as has been demanded by some member-states."

So, to conclude, Romania does not want any territory from Serbia, and nothing more than what EU standards are granting in terms of minority rights: we only want Romanians in Serbia (those who consider themselves as such) to live normal lives. Of course, if somebody wants to call himself or herself "Vlach", so be it, but those who consider themselves as Romanians should be allowed this, without pressure or discrimination. And Serbia can be sure - there will never be citizens more loyal to Belgrade than Serb citizens of Romanian nationality - as we consider the Romanian citizens of Serbian nationality as most loyal to Bucharest.


Last but not least: all this issue described above should have remained a matter of discussion between Romania and Serbia, in the old tradition of friendly relations between our countries. It seems that Belgrade, being focused so much on Kosovo issue, has neglected to uphold the promises made, in recent past, to Bucharest. It is OK, we understand how important is Kosovo for Serbia. However, Romanian diplomats thought that a good moment to signal that they still expect results from Belgrade, not only words, was the meeting in Bruxelles. It may be that another signal was given to some countries in Western Europe (Holland) regarding their rejection of Schengen inclusion for Romania (and Bulgaria). All this diplomatic ballet is normal business in EU - each country must protect and advance its interests. Some countries are bullying others in doing this or that; some others are forced to wait for opportunities. One may notice that Western diplomats did not rejected Romania's demands, but only complained that these issues "were not expressed until now" by Romania - which is correct, Bucharest didn't want to embarrass Belgrade, but waited for Serbia to fulfill its engagements (last time, expressed when president Basescu visited president Tadic, in Belgrade).
However, I am sure that it will not be Romania the obstacle for Serbia's path towards EU. The big issue is Kosovo, but this is the playground of the 'big ones' in EU, and it seems they act mostly on behalf of Pristina, since they have recognized the "Kosovo Republic".

I am glad things are moving on regarding Serbia's future in EU.

However, among many other things, EU stands for certain standards in protecting minorities in member countries. President Tadic is right, Romania cannot ask for Belgrade to force Vlachs to declare themselves Romanians. What Romania asks is that those Vlachs who want to declare themselves Romanians to be permitted to do this, freely, and their rights as Romanians to be recognized and protected.

"Vlach" is derivated from the word Valah/Wallach/Olah, used by people in Europe to designate the Latin-language speakers in the Danube-basin. Germans were using Wallachs/Wallachians, Hungarians were reffering to Olahs, Italians were talking about Vlachi etc. But always, our ancestors were calling themselves Romanians (Rumani), not Vlachs. For example, Wallachia was the name used by foreigners for the Romanian principality between Carpathian Mountains and Danube + Black Sea, but the inhabitans were using the term "Tara Romaneasca", in Latin: "Terra Romana".
South of Danube, there are populations of Latin-language speakers, their languages being dialects of the Romanian language. These people are peacefully living in Greece, Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Serbia - as loyal citizens of their countries, but still trying to keep their language, traditions and Orthodox faith.

Regarding Serbia, what Romania hopes to get is just that the so-called Vlachs from Timok Valley will have the right to declare themselves as Romanians, if so they want, without fear of persecution and denial of their language (which is Romanian - there is no Vlach language). By the way, the farther one goes South of Balkans, the Romanian dialects spoken are getting more distant from the standard Romanian, therefore the language spoken by Vlachs in Timok is practically Romanian, the region being so close to Romania (closer is just Voivodina). So, Romania asks only that Serbia accept the free will of some of its citizens, without imposing them a name ("Vlachs") if they feel that "Romanian" reflects better their identity. It is exactly what we, Romanians, are doing in our country, supporting the national identity of Serbs and the other 17 minorities, from Hungarians, Armenians and Slovaks to Greeks and Albanians, and from Turks and Tatars to Serbs, Germans and Italians (yes, indeed).
Unfortunately, so far Serbia has only recognized the rights of the Romanian minority in the autonomous Vojvodina Province. The designation of "Vlachs" as different from Romanians is inherited from Communist Yugoslavia, when was serving the goal of splitting the Romanian minority in half. There were complicated times, not here the place to discuss it in detail. However, after the fall of Communism and Milosevic, it was normal that Romanians in Timok Valley to feel free to assume their Romanian identity. Are they wrong? Isn't Serbia a democracy? Aren't we, Serbs and Romanians, the best friends in the area? Isn't Romania opposing Kosovo UDI? Even yesterday, in Bruxelles,(quote) "the EU countries that have not recognized the Kosovo Albanian unilateral declaration of independence made it clear they were against the EC proposal to produce the Stabilization and Association Agreement feasibility study for Kosovo, as has been demanded by some member-states."

So, to conclude, Romania does not want any territory from Serbia, and nothing more than what EU standards are granting in terms of minority rights: we only want Romanians in Serbia (those who consider themselves as such) to live normal lives. Of course, if somebody wants to call himself or herself "Vlach", so be it, but those who consider themselves as Romanians should be allowed this, without pressure or discrimination. And Serbia can be sure - there will never be citizens more loyal to Belgrade than Serb citizens of Romanian nationality - as we consider the Romanian citizens of Serbian nationality as most loyal to Bucharest.


Last but not least: all this issue described above should have remained a matter of discussion between Romania and Serbia, in the old tradition of friendly relations between our countries. It seems that Belgrade, being focused so much on Kosovo issue, has neglected to uphold the promises made, in recent past, to Bucharest. It is OK, we understand how important is Kosovo for Serbia. However, Romanian diplomats thought that a good moment to signal that they still expect results from Belgrade, not only words, was the meeting in Bruxelles. It may be that another signal was given to some countries in Western Europe (Holland) regarding their rejection of Schengen inclusion for Romania (and Bulgaria). All this diplomatic ballet is normal business in EU - each country must protect and advance its interests. Some countries are bullying others in doing this or that; some others are forced to wait for opportunities. One may notice that Western diplomats did not rejected Romania's demands, but only complained that these issues "were not expressed until now" by Romania - which is correct, Bucharest didn't want to embarrass Belgrade, but waited for Serbia to fulfill its engagements (last time, expressed when president Basescu visited president Tadic, in Belgrade).
However, I am sure that it will not be Romania the obstacle for Serbia's path towards EU. The big issue is Kosovo, but this is the playground of the 'big ones' in EU, and it seems they act mostly on behalf of Pristina, since they have recognized the "Kosovo Republic".

@Olli
The problem with vlahs-romanians from Serbia is the double standard used by Serbian govs. In Voivodina region the Romanian community (30.000 aprox) has schools and religious service in their native language, also they have radio programms in Romanian (even we are talking about fiew hours per week) and newspapers. Nobody died because of that.
In Timoc area (NE Serbia) they don't have any of those. Furthermore, they are forced to put Serbian names to their own kids.
They had big problems in building the first two romanian churches.
Recently, the Serbian gov. invented "the Vlach alphabet", with some kirilik letters, when nobody asked that. Romanians use the latin alphabet.
Is is a wrong idea that Romania never told anything about Vlachs issue and suddenly popped up now. There are more than 20 years of negociations with Serbian govs. but it was like we talked to the walls.
We simply ask Serbia to give them same rights they gave to Romanians in Voivodina. We are not even asking to give them same rights that Serbian minority has in Romania (beyond UE requests).
Why is so difficult to do the right thing?

Serbia is seen here in Romania as one of our best friends in the region and Serbian people is regarded as very brave.
All this issue has nothing to do with the access of Serbia to EU, and we should apologize if this is seen like that.
The issue raised yesterday by Romania has nothing to do with Serbia and its access to Romania but it was only about tactics needed to force EU member states and especially the Nederlands to accept Romania into the Schengen region. The Nederlands is the only EU country that is against Romania into Schengen. The game is like this : You don't accept Romania into Schengen, then we will impose various barriers for Serbia to enter EU. Nothing to do with Serbia for real, only to put some pressure on EU and especially the Nederlands.
This is what most of the Romanian newspapers see things and even some ministers form the Romanian government.
Now, guess what?
After yesterday's pressure imposed by Romania regarding Serbia's access to EU, the Schengen agenda for Romania was taken serious and will be discussed at the EU Summit on 1-2 March.
Hopefully both objectives will be achieved, access of Romania into Schengen and access of Serbia into EU.
Sorry for this, it was nothing personal.

Catalin from Romania

The issue is that Serbian government refuses any rights for the Romanian minority in Timoc Valley. No schools, no religion services, no newspapers, no radiso, no television, imposing to use only serbian names after all family names have been serbianised. After 1945 the Serbians imposed the name Vlachs after using Romanians til 1945, in a region that NEVER belonged to Serbia until 1830 and where the religous souvereignity was practiced by the Metropolia in Bucharest for centuries till 1830.
These rights are DENIED by Serbian Governement and although Serbian Government promised improvements to Vlachs/Romanians and Romanian Government, this never happened and thought this would go throu again...
The Serbian government infiltartaed agents in the newly created Concil of Vlachs who declared themselves Romanias and are asking all these rights. This is a typical dictatorial antidemocratic action. The „Vlachs”, who do not feel Romanian, do not need the rights above, do not need to be in any organization to claim this. Continuing this antidemocratic politics, the Serbian government following a russian-soviet stalinistic methodod overnight invented a new language with a new alphabet and called it ”Vlach language”. The Governments who are using such russian-soviet stalinistic methods do not have a place in EU.
The Serbian Government has to grant all claimed rights mentioned above to whose Vlachs who are asking this and not to artificially create or manipulate organisations, languages to prove that the Vlachs are not Romanian.

What are in fact the „principles” of the Serbian Government?
Those which led to the bloody war in Yugoslavia? Those which led that even their brothers in Montenegro separated from the Government in Belgrade?

It is time to wake up, Serbia and see yourself in a true mirror.... cure yourself from the cancer which infested your society and mind so that EVERYBODY who could, SEPARATED from Serbia. Revise your principles, the ones recognised till now produced a disaster.

Do you remember Slovenia 2 YEARS AGO with Croatia ? Do you remember Poland during the Kaczinsky regime ? ...The new rules in EU is ..How much is worthy my yes vote ?...this is one of the reason why all is falling apart...

Do you remember Slovenia 2 YEARS AGO with Croatia ? Do you remember Poland during the Kaczinsky regime ? ...The new rules in EU is ..How much is worthy my yes vote ?...this is one of the reason why all is falling apart...
(Luigi, 29 February 2012 15:18)

You are certainly correct. This has to be the largest shortcoming of the EU, and will absolutely prevent greatness. This idea that everything must be unanimous and everyone can veto everything is crazy in an organization with as many members as the EU. They need to switch to some sort of super-majority (2/3 vote) for major things such as accepting new countries.

Do Vlachs/Romanians in Serbia want Serbia to pay for Romanian schools and churches or do they want to pay themselves?

EU ministers should ask themselves...How serbia is gaiven preliminary approval to Serbia's Union candidacy and BiH, Kosovo,and Macedonia are left behind .... when was the last time any other politician said the same….Republika Srpska was not formed in 1991 but was forming its self between 1991 and 1995 on Murder, rape, and war crimes against humanity against citizens of BiH by help from Serbia and Milosevic and his Government and same people today run Serbian army and government....….The only military economy in Balkan’s is Serbia…..and that is why 1990’s wars in Balkans happened so the serbian economy can flourish…we people of balkans must ask our selves why? and start the new era of reconciliation and one day hope that one day world does not have REpublics like srpska that are founded on GENOCIDE…I guess by todey news we will wait long time...Peace to all

"following a russian-soviet stalinistic methodod"
--------------
I've always had a feeling that Romania is much more interested in Moldavians declaring themselves Romanians than Moldavians themselves. Romania is just a little bit jealous. IMHO most Moldavians are quite satisfied with their Moldavian identity.

An interesting point in the issue:

I found a Romanian university professor who told me that before Romanian language started gradually to use Latin alphabets, around mid 19th century till the end of 19th century, cyrillic alphabets were used. And that very well is possible that some Vlach-Romanians have continued to use cyrillic alphabet. And therefore Romanian written in cyrillic is not a completely artificial creation.

So what's the role of Belgrade in this? Does Belgrade help keeping the old tradition or does it force an artificial one on people?

After learning more about this situation from the Romanians on this website I would like to say that I am of the opinion that Serbia's local government in the Timoc Valley area should do the right thing and provide minority assistance.

I think Romanians are our brothers and there should never be a problem to build a Romanian church or Romanian radio channel to maintain the Vlachs' cultural and social ties to their heritage.

I hope the issue is sorted out & residents in Timoc Valley feel a part of Serbia whilst also maintaining what is important to their culture.

In regards to what Caitlin the Romanian said, it sounds like this issue was more about Holland and the visa issue with Romania? I can understand using this moment for Romania's own political issues and to be honest I don't really care if the candidate status is awarded today, tomorrow or in 10 years. So no problems there.

Veliki pozdrav braci na Romaniji!

“Serbia will not accept impossible conditions''??!?!?!?
Lol
It seems that some people in Brussels granted You the permission to use such a rhetoric for domestic consumption.
Election time President,isn't it???

Cristian & Alexandru M.,

I appreciate your thorough explanations of issues at hand.

It's difficult to understand Belgrade motives for not taking care of this very very small problem in due time. Or is the character of this problem a local one; are talking about a municipality level issue?

It's natural that solving the issue will bring some financial costs. But good agreements will always be cheaper than unsolved problems.

Also this matter of forcing Serbian names to people (children). Quite unbelievable! Especially as we talk about areas of very rich ethnic population -a matter that is a great resource.

Altogether this is a minor problem that Belgrade can take care of pretty quickly, in case there are no hidden issues on either side. One strength of Serbia is its ethnically rich population. When taken well care of, it's a fruitful ground for material and immaterial wealth.

@ trizo
and Olli

Cristian has answered already to your questions. I just want to add some clarifications:

Romanians in Voivodina are considered a nationality, and as such they receive support from the Belgrade Government, as granted by law. Vlachs in Timoc Valley are considered just an ethnic group, therefore they receive no support from the Govt. The only difference between Romanians in Voivodina and Vlachs in Timoc Valley is the place - Voivodina is in Northern Serbia, while Timoc Valley is in the East. Despite the fact they speak same language (Romanian) and are of same Orthodox faith, local and federal Serb authorities are persecuting those in Timoc valley who affirm their Romanian identity - probably out of sensitivity on national issues (something understandable, after Kosovo debacle). However, in Timoc Valley people were beaten, their houses were targeted with firearms, priests who tried to service in Romanian were threatened, churches did not receive construction permit etc. It may be that such actions are the work of extremists. However, authorities should take appropriate measures, because this is not normal. And this is not to be accepted in EU.

We understand, in Romania, that it is difficult for Serb people to overcome nationalist prejudices aquired during decades of Communism. We had the same problems in Romania, in the beginning of 90s, when we started to accept that 5% of Romanian citizens are ethnic Hungarians, and gradually we and them negociated (sometimes we even fought, thanks God nobody died!) and finally their political party joined the government, and they've got all necessary rights and local power to upheld their identity in the regions they are in majority (two out of 40 Romanian counties). All this Kosovo complication is not helping, I'm sure. But Serbia has to accept that the only way to receive is to give. Serbs cannot seriously ask Kosovo Albanians to grant rights for Kosovo Serbs if Belgrade is not ready to acknowledge same rights for minorities in Serbia.

One development I consider to be a sad one was the announcement, in Belgrade, of the "Vlach" language. This is stupid. Let's say Americans will baptize their language "Americanish", just to offend the Britons... This is the Communist-style strategy to deal with minorities: divide them, pressure them, invent them (if necessary). Mr. Tadic says "everybody is free to declare himself Romanian or Vlach, we cannot forcefully change all Vlachs in Romanians". OK, BUT Bucharest is asking NOT for this; only that those Vlachs who consider themselves Romanian to be permitted and recognized as such. Instead, Serbs (with the cooperation of some Vlachs, who maybe are having good intentions) proclaim the "Vlach language", and keep all Romanian-speakers in Timoc Valley under this label. Is this a solution? With all due respect, no.


@ bganon
What I am telling here is based on discussions with several Romanian diplomats (I am journalist), starting with 1997. The issue of Vlachs rights was discussed with Belgrade for the last 20 years. Most of the time, Serbia promised to do various things, and Romania got only words. We postponed and postponed to adopt stronger discourse, in order not to jeopardize our friendship (and also, last years were tough for Serbia, and a friend should take this into consideration). But, as the time passed and with the Kosovo UDI crisis in 2008, we got a feeling that for Serbs, Romania is good only when we oppose Kosovo independence. It is frustrating to meet such lack of understanding coming from exactly those you befriend and support. On the other hand, Romanian media also let things to be delayed: it took a long time for the issue to enter the public agenda in Romania, because Romanians really consider Serbs as friends and we are not used with unfriendly gestures from Belgrade. But the pressure is real upon the Romanian/Vlach activists in Timoc valley, and they complain more and more; things started to show up in media, and politicians cannot ignore it. We understand that Kosovo is important, but we think everybody is important, especially in EU - Serbs, Romanians, Vlachs. And everybody should enjoy the possibility to develop his or her own identity.

On the other hand, we have this situation with Schengen agenda for Romania - as my fellow Catalin said, Romanian media speculates that Bucharest wanted to give a signal to Netherlands (and not only). I believe that a fair assumption may be that Romanian diplomats have seen and used an opportunity to both remind Belgrade that things need to be done in Timoc Valley, and also show Netherlands that Romania has a voice in EU (as everybody should have, not only the big, powerfull countries).

@ aaayyy
"IMHO most Moldavians are quite satisfied with their Moldavian identity".

I know for sure that MOST of Romanians are, also, very happy with the existence of the Moldavian identity (these are the result of public opinion polls, for several years already). The idea of re-uniting Romania with Moldavia is absent from Romanian public discourse, save some crazy nationalists that are not even represented in the parliament (the so-called "Greater Romania Party"). We are confortable with the existence of the sister-country Moldavia Republic, and we support its territorial integrity and sovereignty, also over the territory of the Eastern, separatist, Moscow-encouraged, self-proclaimed "Transdniestr Republic". In fact, most of Romanian opposition towards Kosovo UDI is due to the need to protect Moldavia Republic borders (if we recognize Kosovo, we will give Russians arguments to ask for recognition of the "Transdniestr Republic", their puppet-state).
On the other hand, from a practical perspective, nobody in Romania wants couple hundred thousands of Rusofon population in its borders (which will come through any scenario of uniting Moldavia Republic and Romania). The decision to recognize Moldavia Republic as sovereign and separate, and abandon any goal of changing the borders was the best decision taken by Romania in the beginning of 90s. One may see the results: today, Romania is in NATO, EU, and so on.

Regarding the churches (or schools) for Vlachs in Timoc Valley:

It is customary in a democracy, for the state to cover the needs of all his citizens, because all of them are paying taxes (directly, such as local taxes or the revenue tax, or indirectly, e.g. the VAT tax). I believe Serbia is a democratic country 9otherwise it would not seek EU membership), therefore I am sure its Govt. will do the best for all its citizens, regardless their nationality, language, ethnicity etc. As long as Romanians/Vlachs are paying taxes to Serbia budget, I believe it's normal for them to expect to get some support in building schools and churches in Timoc Valley, in which to use their language freely. If this support will prove to be too much burden for Serbia (since it is a poor country, like Romania, and also has to take care of the financial needs of Kosovo Serbs), I am sure that alternative options will be found (donations from local people, sponsorship from Romania etc.). However, from my information (I am journalist) in Romania we cover such expenses from the public budget, in which all citizens, including the Serbs and the other 17 minorities citizens are contributing. Actually, the 18 minority deputies present in the lower chamber of the Romanian parliament (they are appointed directly by their communities) are quite active in lobbying for this Museum of X Minority to be renovated or that Cultural center of Y Minority to be erected etc. I understand that such deputies with reserved seats representing minorities do not exist in Serbian parliament (although, funny enough, the system of reserved seats was imposed to Kosovo Assembly), but I am sure that Belgrade has all necessary information regarding the needs of Romanians/Vlachs from Timoc Valley. After all, we do not speak of millions of people here, but something under 100,000 persons.

@Olli
If we are talking about the history of writing in Romania we should go further back, to Tartaria writing (5500 BC), believed to be the oldest writing on earth, but still subject of debates. That writing was related to Turdas(Ro)-Vinca (present Srb) neolitic culture. Of course, at that time there were no Serbs in this region.
Later, the Dacians used both latin and greek alpfabets and this continued in the first millenium AD.
The cyrilic alphabet (greek origin) came together with religious ortodox books.
The first cyrilic document on Romanian teritory is dated at 1392 a.d. in southern Romania (Valachia). In Moldova the latin alphabet was used till 1439 a.d. when Moldavian king Alexandru cel Bun officialised the use of cyrilic, trying to stop the influence of Catolic Church in that area.
In paralel, the greek and latin alphabet continued to be used, mostly in trading documents.
In Transilvania, cyrilic alphabet was never used excepting some ortodox monasteries under Valachian/Moldavian influence.
The return to latin alphabet was decided by king Alexandru Ioan Cuza in 1862; the cyrilic alphabet continued to be used in some monasteries.
So, in the last 2000 years Romanians used cyrilic alphabet some 450 years and only on half of our today teritory.

Comming back to Vlachs-Romanians, Serbian gov. didn't talk about cyrilic alphabet but an invented "Vlachian alphabet", with some cyrilic letters and some invented letters for the specific romanian phonetic.
If the Romanians from Timoc area will decide to use latin or other alphabet it should be their own free decision. With latin alphabet will be much easier for us to provide them the books they need.

Cristian,

Thanks for info. It's been good to learn about the issue.

Never visited the Timoc area this far. I think it's my project during the coming summer.

hope that one day world does not have REpublics like srpska that are founded on GENOCIDE…I guess by todey news we will wait long time...Peace to all
(Mile, Zagreb, 1 March 2012 07:12)

That would be bad for you,because in the very same moment Croatia,which is a country based upon the genocide on its Italian and Serb minority,should immediately disappear!
The fact that Croats ran the only concentration camp in WW2 outside Nazi Germany speaks volumes!