The problem is simple: Romania doesn't want to force anyone to declare he's romanian. If you want to be a "vlach", that's your problem. We just want that the people who do declare themselves ROMANIAN to have acces to basic Church and School rights. That's all.
By the way, a big part of Romania used to be called "Valachia or Vlachia". What do we do about it? Is it serbian teritory?:) Or maybe, Bulgarian?
It is really impossible in this part of Europe to have people calmed down on ethnic principles.
If one calls a dutch, a person from Netherlands,
If one calls a hungarian, a magyiar
If one calls a greek, a hellas
Aren't they the same thing ?
Serbians are forging history, and this is unacceptable, Vlah is the same thing as Romanian, before the Romanian state formed, the southern region of modern day country was called Valahia.
No one can force anyone to declare himself part of something, but why do serbians try to impose cyrillic alphabet, why don't they allow churches, why don't they allow the people to learn their maternal language, when they all want this ?
And what do you know, this country, Serbia, has it specified in their constitution to protect the minorities and offer them their minimal demands, they don't even respect their own constitution ...
There is no one in Romania against the serbs joining the EU, not even the external affairs ministry, which appreciates and likes very much, his counterpart in Serbia, but when he tries to bring this "minor" minority issue to his serbian counterpart, that person doesn't use his reason, his mind blocks.
Probably this is understandable, as serbs might have a deep wound caused by so many wars .. and so recent.
Is it such a big deal to allow churches and schools, what harm does it make ?
Many romanians were forced to change their romanian last name to a serbian last name during Tito. That explains why they have serbian last names.
But of course no croats or albanians would know that since their knowledge doesn't go beyond what is happening in thier mountain village.
"This is a song in Vlach. I am half Romanian and I can understand 100% of it. The conclusion is simple: Vlach=Romanian. "
---------------
Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks have practically the same language, but their identities are different.
ian warrior: RomanLatin LANGUAGES in Cyrillic, the worst joke. Well, go no further than the old churches in Buchurest and see the old inscriptions in cyrilic! The Latin alphabet was introduced in Romania in the mid 19th century. Before that your predecessores wrote in Cyrilic for centuries!
People may name their kids what they want. Tarzan is not a traditional Roma name, yet they can name their children Tarzan. Vlad comes from Slavonic Vladimir, yet Vlad is also a Romanian name. Sarkozy is a Hungarian name, yet he's president of France.
If a Vlach decides to marry a Serb and their children have Serbian names, it neither takes away from their Vlachness or their Serbness.
How can so many of you be so short sighted? States of entirely mixed people like the USA, Canada, and Australia have existed now for over 200 years.
Furthermore, if anyone thinks their blood is 'pure,' I challenge them think back to the pre-national past, before the 19th century, hell, before the 1st century. We all have ancestors who have been breeding with whomsoever they wished since the dawn of our species. In the Balkans, like anywhere in Europe, there have been a lot of migrating peoples who have mingled their genetics, or blood, with everyone else.
I highly doubt it is possible that any people, even Romanian or Albanian ancestral peoples, remained entirely in such remote regions that they did not interbreed with Greeks, Romans, Sarmatians, Goths, Gepids, Alans, Huns, Avars, Bulgars, Slavs, Armenians, Jews, Roma, Italians, Normans, Turks, you name it. Just look at Byzantine history and their policy of removing and resettling populations, which the Turks continued. Realize we are all agglomerations of various peoples and ancestries and then this wont be an issue!
Why else would the European Union take money for structural funds from nation states to redistribute as funding to regions for regional development? Brussels learned from the USA, Canada, and Australia's examples as well as a little conflict scholars have dubbed WWII. They want to develop regional identities and breakdown such ardent loyalty and fanaticism to national identities.
Get with the present and try to set an example, Romanians, since you're in the European Union and should have already settled these issues.
Radisa is not a Vlach name. This Quisling reminds me that two hundred years ago, the writer Dimitrie Tichindeal was removed from the ranks of the Orthodox Church and from his church in Arad because he was writing in Romanian and that disappointed his Serbian bosses. Who appointed Radisa? Is this approach Milosevic tried with the Albanians, Montenegrins, Bosniaks, Croats, Slovenes etc? Nobody debates whether Vlachs belong to Serbia. It is a free world, and they chose to stay there, so they obviously belong there. That doesn't mean they must be forced into this mocekry, where their church is forced to use a different language, their alphabet is chosen by Belgrade etc.
As so-called "Vlach language" in Cyrillic, will suffer the same fate with other "Bolshevik invention " made in ussr, "moldovan" language, fantasies and rewrites history immediately canceled and despised in the academic world. Latin LANGUAGES in Cyrillic, the worst joke I could be heard ever!!!
Germany's Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle: "From a German point of view it would have been appropriate and right to take a final decision today. This is not the European spirit," he said.
Conclusions:
1) Romania is not Germany slave. At least in this case:)
2) It's funny how germans think when it comes to the national minorities in Romania: they support every request they make, way bigger then what Romania is asking from Serbia. But when we do it, "it's not european".
This is the EU. Serbians, are you sure you want to join?
Dear Romanians, welcome to the Balkans. If you didn't realize Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, Montenegrins, and even Slovenes can all speak among each other without translators, yet they all have their own languages, states, and nations. Is that ludicrous? Possibly, but that's the state of the world, accept it.
All you must do to see how Vlachs are is go to Eastern Serbia. They have their own cultural center/museum in Petrovac-na-Mlavi, where the mayor is also a Vlach. They have surnames like Negrić as well, which came from the 19th century when the Serbian government ruled all people must have last names, so most last names, even Vlach ones, end in -ić.
If you want to persist in claiming them as your national property, go ahead, but don't expect sympathy from the rest of the EU, who has states like Austria, which speak German and at one point were claimed as Germans, and one of those Austrian-Germans was really fanatical about protecting Germans outside of Germany. It didn't end well.
Oh and by the way, to Albanian readers speculating about blood, it comes in types A, B, AB, O, with +/-, not Illyrian, Trojan, or Atlantian. Welcome to the 21st century where the majority of the civilized word has ceased discussion over the purity of blood. That kind of logic is okay if you want to hang out with Jim Bob and his buddies of the Ku Klux Klan, but I think even they would question the purity of Illyrian blood.
This is a song in Vlach. I am half Romanian and I can understand 100% of it. The conclusion is simple: Vlach=Romanian. And the Romanian government only wants for them the possibility to have schools, churches in their own language, so they do not forget it. What is your problem? If you are to come into EU, you should also be ready to respect the others you have to live with. Do not forget that it is you that came on our land, not the other way around.
You say that south of the Danube romanian speakers never contributed to the creation of the Romanian state.False! Even if we don't take into acount the middle ages, when romanian families from the South of The Danube went North and later had rulers of the Romanian throne, the contribution of the Southern Romanians is still imense. For instance, Michael The Brave's mother family( our bigest national Hero) came from south of the Danube. Let me just give modern exemples: Nicolae Iorga, who's family had ancestors in the south, became one of biggest influences in modern Romania and had many functions in the Romanian state. And Eugeniu Carada, a man from South of the Danube was one the most important figures in the Great Romania, and an architecht of the ties between the Romanian Royal Family and the Serbian One.
Concerning Radiša Dragojević: she's not even Romanian. She declared herself vlach, just to get elected into this council. And she still had to use fraud to do that. How? She got people who were serbs at the last census, to declare the're "vlach". You can tell by their names how "vlach" are they.The romanian comunity does even recognize the legimity of her council.
@all
There is also a romanian comunity in Bulgaria. The bulgarian state don't recognize them as romanian, calling them "vlach". They have no rights. The situation is the same in Albania, Greece and Macedonia. Of course, no rights for them. Greece even gives 300 euros to each "latinized greek"(romanian), if he declares himself greek.
Romanians feel that they are responsible over the faith of the Vlach community as they have the same language with them.
Romanians wish that this community is given the same rights as the Romanian Minority in Serbia. That education is provided for them so they do not forget their language. That Religious services are provided in their language, that they be free to go and come from Romania whenever they please. Romanians have a long standing friendship with the serbs and it is not a move against the serbs, but against those elements of the Serbian politics that insist in preventing Vlachs to conserve their identity.
Who is this man who talks on behalf of the Vlachs? Who named him in that position? Where is Predrag Balašević from the Vlach Party, a man who was elected in the position, not named by some relative in the government?
Treat Vlachs in Serbia with the same measure that we treat serbs in Romania, we ask nothing more than this.
"Vlachs are not Romanians" really? Well, how come we communicate with them without a translator (which is NOT the case with other "Latin"-speaking people)?
Serbia in Europe is not alone in denying minorities, but the case is difficult because the country has an important number of minority people. Denial and delusion cannot be beneficial, suppression cannot work in the XXI-st century.
Nik, your history lesson is amazing (particularly the "gradual" thing). Fortunately it does not really matter and those who actually matter know history better. Just remind me: when was it that the Slavs arrived in the Balkans?
Interesting to see Mr. Radisa whoever speaking for the Vlachs!
I think Romania and Serbia are good neighbours and friends and this won't change any time soon.
Serbs never wanted your land either. Our countries are similar and fought in the past for similar reasons.
What the issue is now about is whether the Vlach community really want to be incorporated under the Romanian minority umbrella.
Are you aware of the Vlach national council in Serbia and how many Vlach leaders want the Romanian minority tag?
Without knowing these facts it sounds so extreme that you are giving up a "friendship" so easily over.
It is so easy for you to accuse and make threats but why don't you show investigative numbers into their national council and their votes to switch jurisdiction?
I have Romanian friends and this is not something that would separate us and our beliefs of one another and our countries.
You will see in the end how this will pan out and I think you may have well jumped the gun.
What about all the Vlachs in Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia, etc. - are they considered Romanians?
I've heard people say that Vlachs are the descendants of Illyrians - or at least have a lot of Illyrian blood.
And it is true that Croats and Bosniaks have called Serbs Vlachs as an insult.
"Vlachs are not Romanians"
Ok. But where are then the schools, cultural institutions etc. in "vlach language" ? If they are a recognized minority those should exist.
It is an interesting media MANIPULATION :"Tadic said Romania, Serbia's eastern neighbor, had raised objections during ministerial discussions to the status of the Vlach ethnic minority in eastern Serbia. Bucharest wants Belgrade to incorporate the Vlachs into the Romanian national minority in Serbia. But this is opposed by many of the Vlachs who don't consider themselves to be of Romanian origin.
Tadic said Serbia could not force those people to join the Romanian national minority."
If we'll go at various sources:"Vlach is a blanket term covering several modern Latin peoples descending from the Latinised population in Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe. English variations on the name include: Wallachians, Walla, Wlachs, Wallachs, Vlahs, Olahs or Ulahs. Groups that have historically been called Vlachs include: modern-day Romanians or Daco-Romanians, Aromanians or Macedo-Romanians, Morlachs, Megleno-Romanians and Istro-Romanians. Since the creation of the Romanian state, the term in English has mostly been used for those living outside Romania."
ENJOY.VLACHS are ROMANIANS and we Romanians want just reciprocity, equal treatment to Romanian minority in Timoc as well in Vojvodina, for example. ROMANIA is a model in EU for how WE treat minorities , Serbs including. Or do you think it's time to lose the last sincere friend in this area, WHO NEVER WANTED YOUR EARTH or from other ???
Lenard, as usual you're talking out of your backside. I doubt you even know who or what a Vlach is. So what if this man has a Serbian sounding name, does that make him any less a member of his own community. I mean what kind of a name is Lenard for a Croat fanatic. Stick to observations about your own tribe chum, and leave politics to the grown ups.
He also noted that the number of Serbian citizens who declared themselves as Vlachs had significantly increased in last year's census compared to 2002, and now stands at some 64,000 people.
I suggest you try again with that figure,bc, you may end up with over 1 mil Vlachs.
Serbian Radiša Dragojević yore name is even Serbian your a Serb amazing Serb propaganda lol. Their go the weird Serbs Bosniaks are Serbs Montenegrin are Serbs now the Vlach maybe the maybe even the hole world Belgrade to Tokyo. you Serbs have been to long under warped Turk tutelage you act behave like them even.
There were many pockets of Latin vernacular speakers all over the Balkans: Vlachs Aromanians etc. Yet it was only north of the Danube where due to a strange vacuum created in the 14th century that the Latin language speakers created states and gradually became a majority of the population. After the unification of two such principalities: Walachia and Moldova in mid 19th century a country called Romania was created. Romanians became a collective mane for their people. Transylvania and the Russian occupied Moldova joint after WWI, but the Latin language speakers south of the Danube never participated in the creation of the Romanian nation. That does not mean that they were isolated or repressed. They were active members of their respective countries: Serbia, Bulgaria and Macedonia, even Greece. The claim that a part of the Romanian people lives across the border in Serbia is mildly said absurd. But the failure of Serbia during the last 20 years to reconcile with its neighbors, to make concessions when needed in order to preserve what is essential, led to the sad situation of being seen “up for grabs”. So logically a new and unexpected claimant has arrived!
Lenard, as usual you're talking out of your backside. I doubt you even know who or what a Vlach is. So what if this man has a Serbian sounding name, does that make him any less a member of his own community. I mean what kind of a name is Lenard for a Croat fanatic. Stick to observations about your own tribe chum, and leave politics to the grown ups.
Serbian Radiša Dragojević yore name is even Serbian your a Serb amazing Serb propaganda lol. Their go the weird Serbs Bosniaks are Serbs Montenegrin are Serbs now the Vlach maybe the maybe even the hole world Belgrade to Tokyo. you Serbs have been to long under warped Turk tutelage you act behave like them even.
It is an interesting media MANIPULATION :"Tadic said Romania, Serbia's eastern neighbor, had raised objections during ministerial discussions to the status of the Vlach ethnic minority in eastern Serbia. Bucharest wants Belgrade to incorporate the Vlachs into the Romanian national minority in Serbia. But this is opposed by many of the Vlachs who don't consider themselves to be of Romanian origin.
Tadic said Serbia could not force those people to join the Romanian national minority."
If we'll go at various sources:"Vlach is a blanket term covering several modern Latin peoples descending from the Latinised population in Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe. English variations on the name include: Wallachians, Walla, Wlachs, Wallachs, Vlahs, Olahs or Ulahs. Groups that have historically been called Vlachs include: modern-day Romanians or Daco-Romanians, Aromanians or Macedo-Romanians, Morlachs, Megleno-Romanians and Istro-Romanians. Since the creation of the Romanian state, the term in English has mostly been used for those living outside Romania."
ENJOY.VLACHS are ROMANIANS and we Romanians want just reciprocity, equal treatment to Romanian minority in Timoc as well in Vojvodina, for example. ROMANIA is a model in EU for how WE treat minorities , Serbs including. Or do you think it's time to lose the last sincere friend in this area, WHO NEVER WANTED YOUR EARTH or from other ???
There were many pockets of Latin vernacular speakers all over the Balkans: Vlachs Aromanians etc. Yet it was only north of the Danube where due to a strange vacuum created in the 14th century that the Latin language speakers created states and gradually became a majority of the population. After the unification of two such principalities: Walachia and Moldova in mid 19th century a country called Romania was created. Romanians became a collective mane for their people. Transylvania and the Russian occupied Moldova joint after WWI, but the Latin language speakers south of the Danube never participated in the creation of the Romanian nation. That does not mean that they were isolated or repressed. They were active members of their respective countries: Serbia, Bulgaria and Macedonia, even Greece. The claim that a part of the Romanian people lives across the border in Serbia is mildly said absurd. But the failure of Serbia during the last 20 years to reconcile with its neighbors, to make concessions when needed in order to preserve what is essential, led to the sad situation of being seen “up for grabs”. So logically a new and unexpected claimant has arrived!
He also noted that the number of Serbian citizens who declared themselves as Vlachs had significantly increased in last year's census compared to 2002, and now stands at some 64,000 people.
I suggest you try again with that figure,bc, you may end up with over 1 mil Vlachs.
Dear Romanians, welcome to the Balkans. If you didn't realize Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, Montenegrins, and even Slovenes can all speak among each other without translators, yet they all have their own languages, states, and nations. Is that ludicrous? Possibly, but that's the state of the world, accept it.
All you must do to see how Vlachs are is go to Eastern Serbia. They have their own cultural center/museum in Petrovac-na-Mlavi, where the mayor is also a Vlach. They have surnames like Negrić as well, which came from the 19th century when the Serbian government ruled all people must have last names, so most last names, even Vlach ones, end in -ić.
If you want to persist in claiming them as your national property, go ahead, but don't expect sympathy from the rest of the EU, who has states like Austria, which speak German and at one point were claimed as Germans, and one of those Austrian-Germans was really fanatical about protecting Germans outside of Germany. It didn't end well.
Oh and by the way, to Albanian readers speculating about blood, it comes in types A, B, AB, O, with +/-, not Illyrian, Trojan, or Atlantian. Welcome to the 21st century where the majority of the civilized word has ceased discussion over the purity of blood. That kind of logic is okay if you want to hang out with Jim Bob and his buddies of the Ku Klux Klan, but I think even they would question the purity of Illyrian blood.
Romanians feel that they are responsible over the faith of the Vlach community as they have the same language with them.
Romanians wish that this community is given the same rights as the Romanian Minority in Serbia. That education is provided for them so they do not forget their language. That Religious services are provided in their language, that they be free to go and come from Romania whenever they please. Romanians have a long standing friendship with the serbs and it is not a move against the serbs, but against those elements of the Serbian politics that insist in preventing Vlachs to conserve their identity.
Who is this man who talks on behalf of the Vlachs? Who named him in that position? Where is Predrag Balašević from the Vlach Party, a man who was elected in the position, not named by some relative in the government?
Treat Vlachs in Serbia with the same measure that we treat serbs in Romania, we ask nothing more than this.
"Vlachs are not Romanians"
Ok. But where are then the schools, cultural institutions etc. in "vlach language" ? If they are a recognized minority those should exist.
What about all the Vlachs in Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia, etc. - are they considered Romanians?
I've heard people say that Vlachs are the descendants of Illyrians - or at least have a lot of Illyrian blood.
And it is true that Croats and Bosniaks have called Serbs Vlachs as an insult.
"Vlachs are not Romanians" really? Well, how come we communicate with them without a translator (which is NOT the case with other "Latin"-speaking people)?
Serbia in Europe is not alone in denying minorities, but the case is difficult because the country has an important number of minority people. Denial and delusion cannot be beneficial, suppression cannot work in the XXI-st century.
Nik, your history lesson is amazing (particularly the "gradual" thing). Fortunately it does not really matter and those who actually matter know history better. Just remind me: when was it that the Slavs arrived in the Balkans?
Interesting to see Mr. Radisa whoever speaking for the Vlachs!
I think Romania and Serbia are good neighbours and friends and this won't change any time soon.
This is a song in Vlach. I am half Romanian and I can understand 100% of it. The conclusion is simple: Vlach=Romanian. And the Romanian government only wants for them the possibility to have schools, churches in their own language, so they do not forget it. What is your problem? If you are to come into EU, you should also be ready to respect the others you have to live with. Do not forget that it is you that came on our land, not the other way around.
Germany's Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle: "From a German point of view it would have been appropriate and right to take a final decision today. This is not the European spirit," he said.
Conclusions:
1) Romania is not Germany slave. At least in this case:)
2) It's funny how germans think when it comes to the national minorities in Romania: they support every request they make, way bigger then what Romania is asking from Serbia. But when we do it, "it's not european".
This is the EU. Serbians, are you sure you want to join?
Many romanians were forced to change their romanian last name to a serbian last name during Tito. That explains why they have serbian last names.
But of course no croats or albanians would know that since their knowledge doesn't go beyond what is happening in thier mountain village.
People may name their kids what they want. Tarzan is not a traditional Roma name, yet they can name their children Tarzan. Vlad comes from Slavonic Vladimir, yet Vlad is also a Romanian name. Sarkozy is a Hungarian name, yet he's president of France.
If a Vlach decides to marry a Serb and their children have Serbian names, it neither takes away from their Vlachness or their Serbness.
How can so many of you be so short sighted? States of entirely mixed people like the USA, Canada, and Australia have existed now for over 200 years.
Furthermore, if anyone thinks their blood is 'pure,' I challenge them think back to the pre-national past, before the 19th century, hell, before the 1st century. We all have ancestors who have been breeding with whomsoever they wished since the dawn of our species. In the Balkans, like anywhere in Europe, there have been a lot of migrating peoples who have mingled their genetics, or blood, with everyone else.
I highly doubt it is possible that any people, even Romanian or Albanian ancestral peoples, remained entirely in such remote regions that they did not interbreed with Greeks, Romans, Sarmatians, Goths, Gepids, Alans, Huns, Avars, Bulgars, Slavs, Armenians, Jews, Roma, Italians, Normans, Turks, you name it. Just look at Byzantine history and their policy of removing and resettling populations, which the Turks continued. Realize we are all agglomerations of various peoples and ancestries and then this wont be an issue!
Why else would the European Union take money for structural funds from nation states to redistribute as funding to regions for regional development? Brussels learned from the USA, Canada, and Australia's examples as well as a little conflict scholars have dubbed WWII. They want to develop regional identities and breakdown such ardent loyalty and fanaticism to national identities.
Get with the present and try to set an example, Romanians, since you're in the European Union and should have already settled these issues.
It is really impossible in this part of Europe to have people calmed down on ethnic principles.
If one calls a dutch, a person from Netherlands,
If one calls a hungarian, a magyiar
If one calls a greek, a hellas
Aren't they the same thing ?
Serbians are forging history, and this is unacceptable, Vlah is the same thing as Romanian, before the Romanian state formed, the southern region of modern day country was called Valahia.
No one can force anyone to declare himself part of something, but why do serbians try to impose cyrillic alphabet, why don't they allow churches, why don't they allow the people to learn their maternal language, when they all want this ?
And what do you know, this country, Serbia, has it specified in their constitution to protect the minorities and offer them their minimal demands, they don't even respect their own constitution ...
There is no one in Romania against the serbs joining the EU, not even the external affairs ministry, which appreciates and likes very much, his counterpart in Serbia, but when he tries to bring this "minor" minority issue to his serbian counterpart, that person doesn't use his reason, his mind blocks.
Probably this is understandable, as serbs might have a deep wound caused by so many wars .. and so recent.
Is it such a big deal to allow churches and schools, what harm does it make ?
Serbs never wanted your land either. Our countries are similar and fought in the past for similar reasons.
What the issue is now about is whether the Vlach community really want to be incorporated under the Romanian minority umbrella.
Are you aware of the Vlach national council in Serbia and how many Vlach leaders want the Romanian minority tag?
Without knowing these facts it sounds so extreme that you are giving up a "friendship" so easily over.
It is so easy for you to accuse and make threats but why don't you show investigative numbers into their national council and their votes to switch jurisdiction?
I have Romanian friends and this is not something that would separate us and our beliefs of one another and our countries.
You will see in the end how this will pan out and I think you may have well jumped the gun.
You say that south of the Danube romanian speakers never contributed to the creation of the Romanian state.False! Even if we don't take into acount the middle ages, when romanian families from the South of The Danube went North and later had rulers of the Romanian throne, the contribution of the Southern Romanians is still imense. For instance, Michael The Brave's mother family( our bigest national Hero) came from south of the Danube. Let me just give modern exemples: Nicolae Iorga, who's family had ancestors in the south, became one of biggest influences in modern Romania and had many functions in the Romanian state. And Eugeniu Carada, a man from South of the Danube was one the most important figures in the Great Romania, and an architecht of the ties between the Romanian Royal Family and the Serbian One.
Concerning Radiša Dragojević: she's not even Romanian. She declared herself vlach, just to get elected into this council. And she still had to use fraud to do that. How? She got people who were serbs at the last census, to declare the're "vlach". You can tell by their names how "vlach" are they.The romanian comunity does even recognize the legimity of her council.
@all
There is also a romanian comunity in Bulgaria. The bulgarian state don't recognize them as romanian, calling them "vlach". They have no rights. The situation is the same in Albania, Greece and Macedonia. Of course, no rights for them. Greece even gives 300 euros to each "latinized greek"(romanian), if he declares himself greek.
As so-called "Vlach language" in Cyrillic, will suffer the same fate with other "Bolshevik invention " made in ussr, "moldovan" language, fantasies and rewrites history immediately canceled and despised in the academic world. Latin LANGUAGES in Cyrillic, the worst joke I could be heard ever!!!
Radisa is not a Vlach name. This Quisling reminds me that two hundred years ago, the writer Dimitrie Tichindeal was removed from the ranks of the Orthodox Church and from his church in Arad because he was writing in Romanian and that disappointed his Serbian bosses. Who appointed Radisa? Is this approach Milosevic tried with the Albanians, Montenegrins, Bosniaks, Croats, Slovenes etc? Nobody debates whether Vlachs belong to Serbia. It is a free world, and they chose to stay there, so they obviously belong there. That doesn't mean they must be forced into this mocekry, where their church is forced to use a different language, their alphabet is chosen by Belgrade etc.
ian warrior: RomanLatin LANGUAGES in Cyrillic, the worst joke. Well, go no further than the old churches in Buchurest and see the old inscriptions in cyrilic! The Latin alphabet was introduced in Romania in the mid 19th century. Before that your predecessores wrote in Cyrilic for centuries!
"This is a song in Vlach. I am half Romanian and I can understand 100% of it. The conclusion is simple: Vlach=Romanian. "
---------------
Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks have practically the same language, but their identities are different.
The problem is simple: Romania doesn't want to force anyone to declare he's romanian. If you want to be a "vlach", that's your problem. We just want that the people who do declare themselves ROMANIAN to have acces to basic Church and School rights. That's all.
By the way, a big part of Romania used to be called "Valachia or Vlachia". What do we do about it? Is it serbian teritory?:) Or maybe, Bulgarian?
Serbian Radiša Dragojević yore name is even Serbian your a Serb amazing Serb propaganda lol. Their go the weird Serbs Bosniaks are Serbs Montenegrin are Serbs now the Vlach maybe the maybe even the hole world Belgrade to Tokyo. you Serbs have been to long under warped Turk tutelage you act behave like them even.
It is an interesting media MANIPULATION :"Tadic said Romania, Serbia's eastern neighbor, had raised objections during ministerial discussions to the status of the Vlach ethnic minority in eastern Serbia. Bucharest wants Belgrade to incorporate the Vlachs into the Romanian national minority in Serbia. But this is opposed by many of the Vlachs who don't consider themselves to be of Romanian origin.
Tadic said Serbia could not force those people to join the Romanian national minority."
If we'll go at various sources:"Vlach is a blanket term covering several modern Latin peoples descending from the Latinised population in Central, Eastern and Southeastern Europe. English variations on the name include: Wallachians, Walla, Wlachs, Wallachs, Vlahs, Olahs or Ulahs. Groups that have historically been called Vlachs include: modern-day Romanians or Daco-Romanians, Aromanians or Macedo-Romanians, Morlachs, Megleno-Romanians and Istro-Romanians. Since the creation of the Romanian state, the term in English has mostly been used for those living outside Romania."
ENJOY.VLACHS are ROMANIANS and we Romanians want just reciprocity, equal treatment to Romanian minority in Timoc as well in Vojvodina, for example. ROMANIA is a model in EU for how WE treat minorities , Serbs including. Or do you think it's time to lose the last sincere friend in this area, WHO NEVER WANTED YOUR EARTH or from other ???
Lenard, as usual you're talking out of your backside. I doubt you even know who or what a Vlach is. So what if this man has a Serbian sounding name, does that make him any less a member of his own community. I mean what kind of a name is Lenard for a Croat fanatic. Stick to observations about your own tribe chum, and leave politics to the grown ups.
He also noted that the number of Serbian citizens who declared themselves as Vlachs had significantly increased in last year's census compared to 2002, and now stands at some 64,000 people.
I suggest you try again with that figure,bc, you may end up with over 1 mil Vlachs.
There were many pockets of Latin vernacular speakers all over the Balkans: Vlachs Aromanians etc. Yet it was only north of the Danube where due to a strange vacuum created in the 14th century that the Latin language speakers created states and gradually became a majority of the population. After the unification of two such principalities: Walachia and Moldova in mid 19th century a country called Romania was created. Romanians became a collective mane for their people. Transylvania and the Russian occupied Moldova joint after WWI, but the Latin language speakers south of the Danube never participated in the creation of the Romanian nation. That does not mean that they were isolated or repressed. They were active members of their respective countries: Serbia, Bulgaria and Macedonia, even Greece. The claim that a part of the Romanian people lives across the border in Serbia is mildly said absurd. But the failure of Serbia during the last 20 years to reconcile with its neighbors, to make concessions when needed in order to preserve what is essential, led to the sad situation of being seen “up for grabs”. So logically a new and unexpected claimant has arrived!
This is a song in Vlach. I am half Romanian and I can understand 100% of it. The conclusion is simple: Vlach=Romanian. And the Romanian government only wants for them the possibility to have schools, churches in their own language, so they do not forget it. What is your problem? If you are to come into EU, you should also be ready to respect the others you have to live with. Do not forget that it is you that came on our land, not the other way around.
Serbs never wanted your land either. Our countries are similar and fought in the past for similar reasons.
What the issue is now about is whether the Vlach community really want to be incorporated under the Romanian minority umbrella.
Are you aware of the Vlach national council in Serbia and how many Vlach leaders want the Romanian minority tag?
Without knowing these facts it sounds so extreme that you are giving up a "friendship" so easily over.
It is so easy for you to accuse and make threats but why don't you show investigative numbers into their national council and their votes to switch jurisdiction?
I have Romanian friends and this is not something that would separate us and our beliefs of one another and our countries.
You will see in the end how this will pan out and I think you may have well jumped the gun.
"Vlachs are not Romanians"
Ok. But where are then the schools, cultural institutions etc. in "vlach language" ? If they are a recognized minority those should exist.
What about all the Vlachs in Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia, etc. - are they considered Romanians?
I've heard people say that Vlachs are the descendants of Illyrians - or at least have a lot of Illyrian blood.
And it is true that Croats and Bosniaks have called Serbs Vlachs as an insult.
Radisa is not a Vlach name. This Quisling reminds me that two hundred years ago, the writer Dimitrie Tichindeal was removed from the ranks of the Orthodox Church and from his church in Arad because he was writing in Romanian and that disappointed his Serbian bosses. Who appointed Radisa? Is this approach Milosevic tried with the Albanians, Montenegrins, Bosniaks, Croats, Slovenes etc? Nobody debates whether Vlachs belong to Serbia. It is a free world, and they chose to stay there, so they obviously belong there. That doesn't mean they must be forced into this mocekry, where their church is forced to use a different language, their alphabet is chosen by Belgrade etc.
ian warrior: RomanLatin LANGUAGES in Cyrillic, the worst joke. Well, go no further than the old churches in Buchurest and see the old inscriptions in cyrilic! The Latin alphabet was introduced in Romania in the mid 19th century. Before that your predecessores wrote in Cyrilic for centuries!
Romanians feel that they are responsible over the faith of the Vlach community as they have the same language with them.
Romanians wish that this community is given the same rights as the Romanian Minority in Serbia. That education is provided for them so they do not forget their language. That Religious services are provided in their language, that they be free to go and come from Romania whenever they please. Romanians have a long standing friendship with the serbs and it is not a move against the serbs, but against those elements of the Serbian politics that insist in preventing Vlachs to conserve their identity.
Who is this man who talks on behalf of the Vlachs? Who named him in that position? Where is Predrag Balašević from the Vlach Party, a man who was elected in the position, not named by some relative in the government?
Treat Vlachs in Serbia with the same measure that we treat serbs in Romania, we ask nothing more than this.
Dear Romanians, welcome to the Balkans. If you didn't realize Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, Montenegrins, and even Slovenes can all speak among each other without translators, yet they all have their own languages, states, and nations. Is that ludicrous? Possibly, but that's the state of the world, accept it.
All you must do to see how Vlachs are is go to Eastern Serbia. They have their own cultural center/museum in Petrovac-na-Mlavi, where the mayor is also a Vlach. They have surnames like Negrić as well, which came from the 19th century when the Serbian government ruled all people must have last names, so most last names, even Vlach ones, end in -ić.
If you want to persist in claiming them as your national property, go ahead, but don't expect sympathy from the rest of the EU, who has states like Austria, which speak German and at one point were claimed as Germans, and one of those Austrian-Germans was really fanatical about protecting Germans outside of Germany. It didn't end well.
Oh and by the way, to Albanian readers speculating about blood, it comes in types A, B, AB, O, with +/-, not Illyrian, Trojan, or Atlantian. Welcome to the 21st century where the majority of the civilized word has ceased discussion over the purity of blood. That kind of logic is okay if you want to hang out with Jim Bob and his buddies of the Ku Klux Klan, but I think even they would question the purity of Illyrian blood.
Germany's Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle: "From a German point of view it would have been appropriate and right to take a final decision today. This is not the European spirit," he said.
Conclusions:
1) Romania is not Germany slave. At least in this case:)
2) It's funny how germans think when it comes to the national minorities in Romania: they support every request they make, way bigger then what Romania is asking from Serbia. But when we do it, "it's not european".
This is the EU. Serbians, are you sure you want to join?
As so-called "Vlach language" in Cyrillic, will suffer the same fate with other "Bolshevik invention " made in ussr, "moldovan" language, fantasies and rewrites history immediately canceled and despised in the academic world. Latin LANGUAGES in Cyrillic, the worst joke I could be heard ever!!!
People may name their kids what they want. Tarzan is not a traditional Roma name, yet they can name their children Tarzan. Vlad comes from Slavonic Vladimir, yet Vlad is also a Romanian name. Sarkozy is a Hungarian name, yet he's president of France.
If a Vlach decides to marry a Serb and their children have Serbian names, it neither takes away from their Vlachness or their Serbness.
How can so many of you be so short sighted? States of entirely mixed people like the USA, Canada, and Australia have existed now for over 200 years.
Furthermore, if anyone thinks their blood is 'pure,' I challenge them think back to the pre-national past, before the 19th century, hell, before the 1st century. We all have ancestors who have been breeding with whomsoever they wished since the dawn of our species. In the Balkans, like anywhere in Europe, there have been a lot of migrating peoples who have mingled their genetics, or blood, with everyone else.
I highly doubt it is possible that any people, even Romanian or Albanian ancestral peoples, remained entirely in such remote regions that they did not interbreed with Greeks, Romans, Sarmatians, Goths, Gepids, Alans, Huns, Avars, Bulgars, Slavs, Armenians, Jews, Roma, Italians, Normans, Turks, you name it. Just look at Byzantine history and their policy of removing and resettling populations, which the Turks continued. Realize we are all agglomerations of various peoples and ancestries and then this wont be an issue!
Why else would the European Union take money for structural funds from nation states to redistribute as funding to regions for regional development? Brussels learned from the USA, Canada, and Australia's examples as well as a little conflict scholars have dubbed WWII. They want to develop regional identities and breakdown such ardent loyalty and fanaticism to national identities.
Get with the present and try to set an example, Romanians, since you're in the European Union and should have already settled these issues.
"This is a song in Vlach. I am half Romanian and I can understand 100% of it. The conclusion is simple: Vlach=Romanian. "
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Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks have practically the same language, but their identities are different.
Many romanians were forced to change their romanian last name to a serbian last name during Tito. That explains why they have serbian last names.
But of course no croats or albanians would know that since their knowledge doesn't go beyond what is happening in thier mountain village.
The problem is simple: Romania doesn't want to force anyone to declare he's romanian. If you want to be a "vlach", that's your problem. We just want that the people who do declare themselves ROMANIAN to have acces to basic Church and School rights. That's all.
By the way, a big part of Romania used to be called "Valachia or Vlachia". What do we do about it? Is it serbian teritory?:) Or maybe, Bulgarian?
"Vlachs are not Romanians" really? Well, how come we communicate with them without a translator (which is NOT the case with other "Latin"-speaking people)?
Serbia in Europe is not alone in denying minorities, but the case is difficult because the country has an important number of minority people. Denial and delusion cannot be beneficial, suppression cannot work in the XXI-st century.
Nik, your history lesson is amazing (particularly the "gradual" thing). Fortunately it does not really matter and those who actually matter know history better. Just remind me: when was it that the Slavs arrived in the Balkans?
Interesting to see Mr. Radisa whoever speaking for the Vlachs!
I think Romania and Serbia are good neighbours and friends and this won't change any time soon.
You say that south of the Danube romanian speakers never contributed to the creation of the Romanian state.False! Even if we don't take into acount the middle ages, when romanian families from the South of The Danube went North and later had rulers of the Romanian throne, the contribution of the Southern Romanians is still imense. For instance, Michael The Brave's mother family( our bigest national Hero) came from south of the Danube. Let me just give modern exemples: Nicolae Iorga, who's family had ancestors in the south, became one of biggest influences in modern Romania and had many functions in the Romanian state. And Eugeniu Carada, a man from South of the Danube was one the most important figures in the Great Romania, and an architecht of the ties between the Romanian Royal Family and the Serbian One.
Concerning Radiša Dragojević: she's not even Romanian. She declared herself vlach, just to get elected into this council. And she still had to use fraud to do that. How? She got people who were serbs at the last census, to declare the're "vlach". You can tell by their names how "vlach" are they.The romanian comunity does even recognize the legimity of her council.
@all
There is also a romanian comunity in Bulgaria. The bulgarian state don't recognize them as romanian, calling them "vlach". They have no rights. The situation is the same in Albania, Greece and Macedonia. Of course, no rights for them. Greece even gives 300 euros to each "latinized greek"(romanian), if he declares himself greek.
It is really impossible in this part of Europe to have people calmed down on ethnic principles.
If one calls a dutch, a person from Netherlands,
If one calls a hungarian, a magyiar
If one calls a greek, a hellas
Aren't they the same thing ?
Serbians are forging history, and this is unacceptable, Vlah is the same thing as Romanian, before the Romanian state formed, the southern region of modern day country was called Valahia.
No one can force anyone to declare himself part of something, but why do serbians try to impose cyrillic alphabet, why don't they allow churches, why don't they allow the people to learn their maternal language, when they all want this ?
And what do you know, this country, Serbia, has it specified in their constitution to protect the minorities and offer them their minimal demands, they don't even respect their own constitution ...
There is no one in Romania against the serbs joining the EU, not even the external affairs ministry, which appreciates and likes very much, his counterpart in Serbia, but when he tries to bring this "minor" minority issue to his serbian counterpart, that person doesn't use his reason, his mind blocks.
Probably this is understandable, as serbs might have a deep wound caused by so many wars .. and so recent.
Is it such a big deal to allow churches and schools, what harm does it make ?
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