"Agreement reached on EU candidate status"

It's interesting that the hypotheses of various troll-like persons who inhabit these pages has not come true.

The jury is out whether the EU is a good thing or a bad thing (most things in life shouldn't be viewed so simplistically) but this should be viewed as a win for Serbia as they have not relented to external pressure to recognize Kosovo.

Certainly ridicules one posters constant rantings about "reciprocity". In this situation it is Kosovo who has been told to behave and their naming is to be in accordance with UN resolutions.

The way this is being reported is that Germany will be persuaded to drop objections to candidate status due to Tadic's deal on Kosovo. This deal involves letting Kosovo participate at international organisations that Serbia has blocked thus far, although as we know there has been some jostling between Serbia and Kosovo about how Kosovo is described at these organisations.

On the one hand I can see that Serbia letting Kosovo Albanians participate can be seen as a form of creeping recognition, but on the other the truth is that this deal changes very little and provided that Serbia gains candidate status the cost will be considered worth it - certainly by the Serbian governing parties that may pick up just enough votes for an election victory (not many for sure) by getting candidate status.

I also read a comment today by editor of Vreme, Zarkovic stating that it may be no bad thing that Kosovo Albanian authorities will be answerable and have to operate in the open now. Up until now the lobbying for recognitions has gone on behind closed doors involving deals that nobody (including the Kosovo Albanian public) knows the fine details of. Kosovo government delegations would have to be more accountable.

And yes we all know that the EU still has major problems of its own and that full membership of the EU may not be in Serbia's interest. The proof of this point is the situation of Croatia - it is only now (TOO LATE!) that a debate is taking place in Croatia on whether it was sensible to join the EU from a business point of view. From now on Croatian goods sold to their primary market of the former Jugoslavija will be taxed heavily, in short those companies are screwed. Either the Croatian government pays something to compensate them in some way or some Croatian firms will relocate to Bosnia and Serbia.

Great news that could create hundreds of jobs for Serbians and Bosnians but bad for Croatia.

In summary, its the right thing to get candidate status, to be able to tap into more EU funds and to ensure that standards (consumer protection for example) are improved. Looking at it another way once we are comfortably warm in the waiting room, knowing there is a long wait other countries won't be able to impose their will upon Serbia so easily. Knowing this it is probably why Germany has been playing hardball until now.

Romania has objected because of the alleged discrimination of the Vlach community in Serbia. Some of my best friends are from this community, and I have never heard so much 'clap trap' in all my born days. Serbia has been accused of many things, but this is totally unjustified and will be treated as such I suspect by all right thinking people who know Serbia and its various communities. I welcome this news its long overdue. But I do hope that Serbia's policians now serve the people they represent rather than their own personal interests.

Colin - All I have to say is... See you at the regional and international forums in equal representation! You hold on to your tiny footnote with dear life if that makes you guys feel better, and we will hold on to the land, military, police, customs, trade, policies of the entire country, regional AND international representation, elections and voting. By the way...you're lucky that Kosova is only holding on to your illegally implanted MUP only for a month. ROSU needs a few extra punching bags.

If EU candidate status is received, it will be received at the expanse of KSerbs destiny, so IMHO it is Serbia's and other EU/US countries moral obligation to grant them refugee status and provide them with comfortable apartments in their respective countries if they decide to leave Kosovo.

Now it is up to the serbian people to rise against this candidature and the pact that is about to be made. Joining the EU is more of a downfall deal in the long run. Do not join the EU. Period.

"... Kosovo Albanian authorities will be answerable and have to operate in the open now. Up until now the lobbying for recognitions has gone on behind closed doors involving deals that nobody (including the Kosovo Albanian public) knows the fine details of. Kosovo government delegations would have to be more accountable. "

Why would anyone expect this? There's hardly any information coming out about the pressures being exerted by Serbia's delegations and those acting on its behalf, after all. There's a fellow "Flying for Kosovo" to encourage more recognitions, and he's quoted some countries (I only remember Uruguay, specifically) saying they'd be happy to recognize Kosovo, but China has threatened loss of trade if they do. More light everywhere would be welcome, but I doubt we'll see it simply because Kosovo will be participating in more regional meetings.

Amer, don't be such a tool. BGanon is saying that Pristina will have to be more transparent now, understand? The Albanians have lost their favorable status when the chubby Albanian chick signed on the dotted line last week. There is no demand from the US/EU that Kosovo be referred to as a "Republic", meaning, they do not give a rat's ass if you are independent or not. Tables have turned, my Albanian trolls, diplomacy is a bitch, and Pristina LOST! See you in the EU, NOT!
(SerbiaRules, 27 February 2012 22:34)
Dear Ruler as an Albanian from Tirana I’m happy with the status for Serbia. More European Serbia becomes is better for the entire region. A European Serbia means a good neighbor for us. I wish European success to Serbia. See you in EU, YES!

Whoever thinks that joining the EU is going to open the coffers and gold will pour out endlessly you’re in for a very disappointing time. It has only recently made known that Serbia will not access any benefits for another 20 years after joining.

Serbia need not go any further but Croatia and see how well things have improved since being given the green light for the EU. It now has to reduce the price of milk to match EU standards and meanwhile back at the ranch the farmers go broke and out of business.

That is the real price of joining the EU; if you are a small unit then you get goods dumped on your market to the point that your local economy goes up in smoke, but the politicians tell you how wonderful things are.

In the meantime the locals have to look at jobs outside their place of birth and so they go and clean toilets and hotel rooms in Germany or France etc and they keep telling you how wonderful and how far you have progressed. Ask the Poles how well they are going. As jobs vanish in paradise, large numbers have been returning to Poland, but there are no jobs there either. However, the freedom-loving western press somehow does not report on this at all but keeps singing the praises of ………….

I have seen many things in my life but it never fails to amaze me at human beings capacity to believe in BS.

The fact that Serbia will get this status was a foregone conclusion in that if Germany rejected it again then joining the EU would be over for ever as far as Serbia is concerned. So you see the Germens were more than keen to get a good result in these negotiations between Belgrade and Pristina. Hence Thaci had to give up many positions.

As far as the ordinary Albanians are concerned, they have paid a very high price – no recognition and status quo continues and so does stagnation and poverty. The demonstrations in Kosovo are proof of that fact.

Amer, don't be such a tool. BGanon is saying that Pristina will have to be more transparent now, understand? The Albanians have lost their favorable status when the chubby Albanian chick signed on the dotted line last week. There is no demand from the US/EU that Kosovo be referred to as a "Republic", meaning, they do not give a rat's ass if you are independent or not. Tables have turned, my Albanian trolls, diplomacy is a bitch, and Pristina LOST! See you in the EU, NOT!

The proof of this point is the situation of Croatia - it is only now (TOO LATE!) that a debate is taking place in Croatia on whether it was sensible to join the EU from a business point of view. From now on Croatian goods sold to their primary market of the former Jugoslavija will be taxed heavily, in short those companies are screwed. Either the Croatian government pays something to compensate them in some way or some Croatian firms will relocate to Bosnia and Serbia.
(bganon)

Now Croatia has visa-free regime for Russian tourists, but as a member of EU Croatia will have to abolish such facility, which could change Russian tourists preferences.

Bravo, Colin, all posts after yours have little significance. It will only be chimpanzee chest pounding.

...comfortable apartments and good working places...

"Ask the Poles how well they are going. As jobs vanish in paradise, large numbers have been returning to Poland, but there are no jobs there either. However, the freedom-loving western press somehow does not report on this at all but keeps singing the praises of …………. "
(sj, 27 February 2012 22:31)

Good that you mention Poland. A good example. It had an unemployment ratio of about 20% (similar to Serbia) when it joined the EU in 2004. In 2011, it was below 12%, in 2008 even below 9%. So much about 'number of jobs'

I read some Serbs believe it will be much easier to struggle for Kosovo being EU member with improved economy.

Just to exhibit the obsurdity of the Serbian mindset I found this article pertaining to the USA helping Montenegrins that are stranded due to the crazy weather insightful. The USA is ferrying life saving supplies to residents who have no connection to help on the outside. Leave it up to a Serb to be negative as usual and to ruin the party by stating that they are upset that the USA is in Montenegro to help. Read below and then read the article at the link I provided.

"Given what had happened during the violent breakup of Serb-led Yugoslavia in the 1990s, not everyone was happy about the rescue effort."

"The American presence triggered anger among Serb nationalists in Montenegro who say the 72-day U.S.-led air war in Yugoslavia must not be forgotten."

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/52120

In the future "Serbs" please check mark the box on the sheet of paper that asks do you want "help" or "no help". Your people are better off freezing to death! Unbelievable that this is a life and death situation in Montenegro and these so called "Serbs" are putting politics before the well being of the citizens in need. This stance just shows you have more concern with hatred rather than the good of the people.

The leadership of Serbia is prostituting the country...for what? For EU status? Look at Croatia. Look at Greece. Look at Bulgaria. Look at Romania? Why join a ship that is sinking? Why give an inch on anything? If the politicians would concentrate on creating a great environment for investment instead of lining their own pockets (and those of their friends), Serbia wouldn't need the EU to attract investment.

Bganon, I agree with your post entirely, but what is going to happen when the waiting is over and it's Serbia's turn to get screwed?
Candidate status is wonderful provided it stays that way but we all know that all good things must come to an end and comes the time when we have to pay the piper.

(bganon, 27 February 2012 16:42)

You totally get it, kudos to ya.

Being a candidate is like the best of both worlds. Money to develop EU standardisation and laws to attract more established and higher tech companies from Europe. Flexible enough not to downsize or quota successful domestic industry and the ability through the non-aligned movement, BRICS, EEU etc to sign off for more FTA's creating a valuable and important bridge for growth both ways. This has now the chance to create an industrial and later independent economic hub on the crossroads if played right.

If Serbia is fit, many in time will change allegiances to manufactured States and think about welfare first. Soft power works.

Peggy I'm glad you agree with me on something! Its a wait and see policy. It may be that the face of the EU changes and that powerful EU countries won't be able to have the leverage they had in the past. For example if there is a so called two speed Europe, or if the Euro is abandoned. In the meantime watch, wait and devise strategy. Of course our political leaders are awful so they can usually be trusted to make poor decisions, but thats not so much to do with the EU.

Amer I don't agree. The policies of Kosovo Albanian authorities is more or less unquestioned - with the exception of the vocal Kurti and company. At international meetings and conferences other countries will have the opportunity to openly (and behind closed doors as well) pose questions concerning their policy. They will be forced to state their position on an international forum - up until now its been a case of dignitaries listening to Jeremic bemoan western policy, now there will be an opportunity to put reasonable concerns to Kosovo Albanian representatives.

On balance this is probably better for everybody.

To SJ....

You say there won't be any benefits in the next 20 years... What about easier access and security for foreign investors? Do you think that anybody will invest in Serbia if it stays out of the EU and if local energy suppliers continue to increase water and energy prices by 200% if an investor builds a factory in a municipality? If there is no security to enforce contracts? The EU and especially Germany is the biggest investor in greenfield FDIs. Do you think it is for the benefit of Serbia to stay isolated? Take a look at Cuba or North Korea and you will see what happens in case of insecurity and isolation. Apart from that, check the "European Regional Fund", there are huge development projects for poorer regions. Besides, the EU runs huge infrastructure projects by setting up trade corridors throughout the EU. Please provide a source for "It has only recently made known that Serbia will not access any benefits for another 20 years of joining".

Milk prices in Croatia... Indeed, you have always winners and loosers of any change. But if you look on any developed country, you will see that the agriculture sector contributes only with 1 or 2% to GDP with the same amount of people working in this sector. This is simply because you cannot run a country and pay for good education, health care, security, social care, R&D projects if you have 5% of the population owning ten cows to produce milk. On the other side of the coin, people have less money for food, clothes, education, .... if they spend most of their money on expensive milk from unproductive production. By joining the EU those farmers have for example the possibility to sell huge amounts of organic milk to the EU, if they change their farms or their children have the possibility to work in more productive sectors.

It is funny that you mention the Poles. Indeed, there were and are a lot of Poles coming to Western Europe. A lot of students went for example to London and received excellent education, they learned to speak perfectly english, and so on. Other were working in Germany, UK, Netherlands wherever, they learned the local languages (good for trade), gained experiences, they send money home, they gained respect for hard work... And now there are jobs in Poland, at least by far more than ten years ago when unemployment in Poland was around 35%. Now it is below 10%, the Polish economy is flourishing (Poland was the only country in Europe that was growing during crisis and did not face recession), Western Europe invests a lot in Poland and the Polish economy became competitive. On average they gain twice as much money compared to Serbia.
With their stronger economy their power and saying within the EU increased as well.
Many Poles do not return because they cannot find a job "in paradise" as you say. Many return because things are going better in Poland and there are more chances for a good future. Imagine all the millions of Serbs living in the diaspora coming back to Serbia, with money and their education they gained around the globe at good universities, Mercedes factories in Stuttgart, and so on. But if Serbia stays out of the EU and develops back into an agriculture country with insecurities, no freedom and a few cows running around, they will definitely not come back.

Moreover, Serbia will have even less bargaining power if it does not develop and relies on a protective agricultural sector. You get bargaining power through economic power, cultural power or a respected political system, otherwise you are the playball of the bigger countries. Many really overestimate the power of Serbia to influence something. As long as the Serbian economy produces only 0.3% (GDP of Serbia: GDP EU x100) of the GDP of the EU, it will not be able to defend any position in the long-run. Being a member of “the club” increases the bargaining power and security a lot. The EU is not a second Sovjet Union with so called “top down” structures (a central government or party dictates the regions what to do) but also with great possibilities for “bottom up” mechanisms and small countries have great possibilities to announce it and settle things if they feel disadvantaged. Or if they have trade or political issues with a third country in an area that does not affect the other member states, they can still rely on them as partners.

Good that you mention Poland. A good example. It had an unemployment ratio of about 20% (similar to Serbia) when it joined the EU in 2004. In 2011, it was below 12%, in 2008 even below 9%. So much about 'number of jobs'
(Comm. Parrisson, 28 February 2012 07:25)

Yes that is all true in what you have said, but the US had a 14 trillion dollar economy prior to the GFC and today despite being in its 4th year of a depression and its real estate, manufacturing etc is continuing to fall, but it now has a 15 trillion dollar economy. It’s called a “pea and thimble” trick – all done with a stroke of a pen. Same with Montenegro, it has a greater GDP than Serbia but 80% live on or below the poverty line.

On the matter of Poland, just ask yourself how many people from France or Germany or even Hungary have sought and found work there or have moved following getting a job. Why would Poles rather stay in the UK than return? I have nothing against the Poles they are lovely people but the truth is the truth.

For your information the unemployment rate in Poland is about 30%. It’s just that they now use western systems to hide it. Much like the US; its so called unemployment level is supposed to be 8.5% when even the academics now openly state that its more like 22%+.



Observer, 28 February 2012 17:44

The first holy rule of finance is that investment has nothing to do with wether you are in out of the EU. Corporations invest because there is profit and they will make a deal with Satan himself if there is money in it for them.

Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Slovenia etc and I see no real gain has been made since joining the EU Utopia. Don t kid your self investment comes if they can find CHEAP labour and resources not because your one of the “family”.

The second rule of finance is don’t be small because you will be eaten by the big fish. All of these little countries are only sources of cheap workers and dumping grounds for EU subsidised goods made by larger EU members. Its called capitalism or law of the financial jungle.

Look you have to wean yourselves off this GDP crap. As I said before the US had a GDP of 14 trillion prior to the GFC but today its 15 Trillion and its in its 4 year of a depression. It is now known that it has another 4 years before a Greek-style tsunami hits the US and this may be brought on much sooner if the EU goes into a recession.

Everything you have said here is straight out of material produced by the EU propaganda machinery. Not one piece is reality. On the infrastructure issue the EU has given money to Serbia for certain projects such as roads but it’s more for the EU’s benefit than Serbia’s. Yes it is true that due to the present economic crises in the EU Serbia will not access the benefits for another 20 years after joining – there is no more money.

Serbia’s economy was destroyed by the freedom-loving west so let’s not dwell too long there, but it has the potential to live extremely well outside the EU. I have listened with amusement on how once in Serbia will have access to all of the EU for its products. A nation of 10 million people can only produce so much so what is the point there?
The real power in Europe will not be the Germans, but the suppliers of energy i.e. the Russians.

The machinery is already being put into place for tighter controls by the EU central government (Germany) and as most dictatorship start, they are generally installed for the benefit of the people such as in the Soviet Union where for the first few years they had a democratic and open society that even the US could not come close to matching, but then came the changes and the same will happen to the EU.

Stick around and watch and see the changes – look at the US. Its now has laws on its books that even Stalin could not get passed in the Duma because of opposition. I’m not joking about this either, it’s a fact.

SJ, thank you for your long reply!
You are right with the GDP issue. You can have a great GDP and still most people live below the poverty line. This is measured with the gini-coefficient (between 0 and 1, while 0 means perfect equality in incomes and 1 perfect inequality = one owns all). But if you look at the country from the outside, it doesn't really matter if only a few own the wealth or not. A high GDP makes a powerful country. Though, it is quite hillarious and very sad that in a country rich as the US, every fourth children depends on meal vouchers. The gini coefficient of the US is heading towards o.5. A value of a third world country and the reason for the occupy movement. If you look at Europe, wealth is shared by far more equal, with Sweden leading the list with 0.23, Hungary next with 24.7, Germany 0.27 and so on. Even if you take the entire European Union as a whole with all its poorer but fast developing new Member States from the huge enlargement round, you have a value of 0.3.
Labour market in Poland... Where did you get those unemployment numbers from? I think they are outdated... And indeed, not that many "normal" workers from France or Germany go to Poland, because salaries are much lower. BUT, there are huge investments by those countries in Poland, and Germany for example produces a lot in Poland and many companies have sub-companies in Poland. There is also new and competetitive industry in Poland, for example busses (I forgot the name of the company). The new busses in Berlin and other cities are all of Polish production. The issue why there are more Poles in the UK or Germany is because and not the other way round is because you do not receive the same salary for the same work as it might be in the US.
About the "western systems to hide it", if the labour market in the US would be measured according to European standards it would be indeed above 20% as you say. Apart from that, check Eurostat, they measure unemployment according to ILO-standards.

I think you are wrong with your "holy rule of finance" and that it doesn't matter if you are in or out the EU. From the things you write you seem to be well educated in the area of finance and economy and then it might make sense what you write, though I dought it. The most important thing for investments is security. The EU is not just a common market, the EU legislature is above national legislature. This has tremendous effects; as a foreign investor you can settle trade disputes in front of the European Court of Justice and member states have to comply. If you invest for example in Japan, you can be more or less sure, that you won't face bigger suprises, because otherwise the reputation of the Japanese economy would fall and investments become more a kind of speculation. But in the case of Serbia, you have no great guarantees. Municipalities and local providers might increase taxes and costs by up to 50 times, after you invested for example in a factory. Since most investments in Serbia come from EU countries, this is a great obstacle for the development of the local economy.
You say there is no more money and infrastructure projects do not help the local economy. Of course there is money. Only because the governments might be in debt, does not mean that there is no money. Private savings in the EU are much higher than the state debts and this money has to be invested. Every coin you do not have under your pillow and which is at the bank is invested in something. Transportation routes, harbours (e.g. in Constanta in Romania) have a significant impact on the local economy because they attract investors and industry. The faster, cheaper and efficient a transportation route, the "closer" is the production site. If it takes 3 days and 100€ to transport a car part from Slovakia to Germany the benefit of lower salaries will be outweighted, but if it takes only 6 hours and 10€ (e.g. due to a fast railway network and no border controls), Slovakia becomes the most efficient place to produce (just to give an example) and Germany can sell a cheaper car to China. Jobs and income in Slovakia and Germany.
The point of the accession of the EU market for Serbian products is simple. It is the closest market. If Serbia wants to ship its vegetables, machinery or whatever to Russia or China or Brazil, prices of those products rise due to high costs of transportation. Serbia has nothing really unique to offer, that such transportation costs could be more or less excluded (e.g. Bananas, world leading high-tech products or something like that).
About Russia: Indeed, Europe is heavily dependent on Russia as an energy supplier and this will not change remarkably in the next 50 years I guess... But there are others as well such as Norway or the other oil producing countries and the EU is pushing renewable energies a lot. Germany produces already more than 25% of its energy from wind, water and solar energy. Some smaller states even more. What is left of Russia is a huge amount of nuclear bombs, veto power in the UN and a huge landmass. There is almost no industry left and 80% of exports are coal, oil, gas and timber. And this money is not invested in the development of the local industry or education. Besides the Russian elites emmigrate often to the US or EU. So you can see it from the other side, that Russia is also very dependant on Europe.
About democracy; you forget that you have long democratic traditions in Western Europe, Russia has never been a democracy before and most people do not have the awareness to keep their democratic rights. An example are the millions of people in every EU country against the ACTA laws. They have been quickly ratiefied by the elite in the US and Japan, but the Polish students (also a country with a huge awareness of democratic rights - e.g. Solidarity Movement) stood up, went on the streets and protests with several million protestors quickly spread all over Europe and they succeeded.
"EU central government (Germany)" - You really overestimate the power of Germany. Germans are just 17% of EU population and if you think that France, UK or other small but strong members such as the (economically even more successful) Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Austria or whoever simply receives orders from Berlin and follows them without any opposition you are really wrong. France set for example the condition for Germany's unifaction to introduce the Euro. Germany was not convinced by the Euro, but it made the best out of it. And also smaller and "weaker" members have a strong saying. For example when Russia blocked Polish imports, Poland made it an EU issue and the EU pressured Russia to accept Polish products again. It is a powerful community and not a central state and it would be highly beneficial for Serbia to be a part of it. And indeed, there is a call for tighter controls of the Southern states, but nor only by Germany, but by all Eurozone countries. What effect should it have if they pump money into Greece and nobody pays taxes and the money goes straight to some tax shelter?

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and maybe an answer.

(Observer, 29 February 2012 13:26)
Our postings are getting a little too long. I agree that wealth is much better distributed in Europe than the US. I have been saying for a long time that in the US poverty has skyrocketed in the last couple of years. In fact in 2009 the Department of Agriculture issued a statement where 60 million Americans could only afford to eat once per day and this figure would have ballooned to anywhere from 80 to 100 million today. The occupy movement has reasons for concern because they know that once the profit making stops the ordinary people will end up carrying the debt much like what has happened in Greece.
Although on paper joining the EU does sound very good but when put into practice it is a very different story. If it was done in a fair manner I wholeheartly agree with you statement without any reservations, but it sad to say it’s never done that way. Let’s look at Hungary for example. When they joined the EU there was great rejoicing as it would open markets to their farmers and manufacturers etc. After a year the local farmers started to complain that they were being sent broke because the EU countries were dumping their goods cheaper than a farmer living only a couple of kilometers outside of Budapest and when you take into account that these farmers are paid much less then their French counterparts it’s a worry.
As I have had some experience in unemployment statistics let me tell you something about them. Since the 1970s the methodology of collecting and classifying unemployment has changed dramatically. It can be traced back to moving of manufacturing overseas and this affects all western countries.
Since Australia is the only western country that has not fallen into a recession to date let me use it to explain. The official unemployment is 5.3%. In fact it is more like 11% to 12%. You see if you are unemployed but work ONLY 1 hour per week you are considered as fully employed. If you are being paid social security but are being retrained, you are not considered as unemployed and so it goes on. No matter what method you use no government employee is going to be brave enough to ask its Minister/Secretary to tell the world that its unemployment is much higher and they have been lying. The only country so far to have that courage is Spain which claims 20% unemployment.
Yes I agree with what you have said about buses being made in Poland and other manufacturers moving there, but here is the problem why do many Poles prefer to stay in the UK rather than go back home? There is a gap between the official storyline and reality. There is another method that you can use to see just how good life is in Poland. How many non Poles have managed to get a job there and have moved to Poland (not including senior management of companies that have moved there such as possible the bus manufacture)? Look at Turkey and how they are being praised as the next economic power etc and how manufacturing is jumping in leaps and bounds, but why doesn’t the EU open their doors to allow the Turks to move freely and see how many remain in Turkey. In essence propaganda material is usually better than reality.
Yes the EU has some very good institutions such as EU Court etc and yes it is difficult at the moment to invest in Serbia. However, this is a hangover from Tito days, but you see some of the investors also demand that they pay little to nothing and take all the profits outside the country. Nevertheless Serbia still has a long way to go. Just because Serbia joins the EU will not guarantee success as big corporations manipulate governments to suit their own goals.
I have been in finance industry for now 38 years and can tell you that it’s no better than a shark with a smile.
Let me say this again. The EU has run out of money and there is no better example that what is going on in Greece. All those loans are not even reaching Athens as they are stabilizing the banks only. So where does the EU get its money you ask? They have asked China and Russia to buy their bonds to maintain a fighting fund. The IMF has gone to these same countries asking greater investment in the bank. All EU money now comes from borrowings.
As far as transportation is concerned you will find that Australian farmers fly their fresh produce to places like Japan and Hong Kong. While Chinese manufacturing travels half way around the world and sells in Europe. Goods being transported these days are not stopped for inspection at every border crossing. Serbia is a small country but its important to the EU as its on the crossroads to Asia and that is why they want it in.
It will take a hundred years to achieve renewal energy that is as cheap as coal produced energy because the oil companies have an interest in keeping it so. Have you asked yourself why a place like California has such a poor public transport system? The oil companies and car manufacturers lobbied for this to happen. In fact in some cities in the US GM went and bought bus and tram companies and closed them.

Its not as clear cut as what you say in the case of Russia. It is a known fact that Mitsubishi, Toyota and Nissan have closed manufacturing in other parts of the world and opened up in Russia. Yes Russia has more to go before it can come up to your and my standards but its on the right path. The only Russians elites thasn have gone to the US or EU are thieves escaping prison. The greatest number of well educated that are seeking to leave their country come from the US and the greatest numbers seeking to go to the US are the poor who believe Hollywood movies.
How to rest if it’s a true democracy – if you have the same parties in power every couple of years then its not democracy, but if you have a variety of parties then it is a democracy. Let me start you on this, the US is not a democracy. People mix up democracy and a good standard of living.

Thank you for your answer.
I have just six short points.
1) I think language skills are an important factor for migration. Every student in Europe learns English in school. So it is easier for Poles to move to the UK, than for others to move to Poland. You ask why Poles prefer to stay in the UK: Because living standards are still much higher in the UK compared to Poland. Don't forget that Poland is still a young market economy and decades of "communism" left their footsteps in every part of the society and economy. You can see that very well in Germany. The eastern parts are still below the living standards of the west, although they have the same legal and economic system for more than 20 years... You say that Australia is the only western country that has not fallen into recession so far. Again, Poland has also not suffered from recession. Their economy was even growing in 2008, when all economies suffered from recession. Other western countries are flourishing again (Sweden 4.5%, Germany 3.5%, ....).
2) I know that they were asking China and Russia for money. But why not? The only reason not to do this could be "pride". You could also ask why the northern countries of Europe should spent money for Greece. Every coin that is given by Russia or China means a coin less for the northern countries. And they would be affected as well, if Greece falls. There are no United States of Europe so far and it is really hard to explain Finnish, Danish, Dutch or German tax payers, why they should spend their money on a corrupt country in which the rich elite is not paying their taxes.
3) I agree with you, if you have just two extremly dominating parties and never coalitions, the system is maybe not extremly democratic. Though, parties change during times. But I agree, I think multi-party systems with coalitions as in many European countries seem to be a bit more democratic.
4) I just read an article about some companies coming back to the US, because transportation costs become to expensive (as well as labour costs in China) and production deadlines expire more often. We will see..
5) I know that farmers often suffer from accession, but I think they are victims of a general economic development in the country. Agriculture is simply not efficient if you have only 10 cows. In Romania you have still farmers who do their fieldwork with bulls. This has no future if you want to develop the country. Their children are more productive if they become physicians instead of farmers. Those countries have a high population density (compared to the US or Russia), so it is not efficient to have 30 percent of the population working in the agricultural sector. In every developed country agriculture contributes only with 1,2 or 3% to GDP.
6) It depends how you calculate the costs for coal. If you include the costs for medical care for asthma, destroyed forests because of acid rain and so on, renewable energy becomes very competitive. Again, Europe has in most parts very high population densities, if you produce energy from coal, you have massive side-costs. But as far as I know, the US started to invest a lot in this sector and if you look at Europe, those lobbies have power, but still you have huge programms on renewable energy and even the car nation Germany has one of the best public transportation systems. This is the task of the government and politics; to internalise external production costs. Somebody always gets the bill for polluted rivers (fishers, increased costs for portable water), destroyed rain forrests (desertification, rising sea levels), oil disasters... Coal is the dirtiest way of producing energy (maybe next to nuclear energy) with the highest external costs.

Colin - All I have to say is... See you at the regional and international forums in equal representation! You hold on to your tiny footnote with dear life if that makes you guys feel better, and we will hold on to the land, military, police, customs, trade, policies of the entire country, regional AND international representation, elections and voting. By the way...you're lucky that Kosova is only holding on to your illegally implanted MUP only for a month. ROSU needs a few extra punching bags.

The way this is being reported is that Germany will be persuaded to drop objections to candidate status due to Tadic's deal on Kosovo. This deal involves letting Kosovo participate at international organisations that Serbia has blocked thus far, although as we know there has been some jostling between Serbia and Kosovo about how Kosovo is described at these organisations.

On the one hand I can see that Serbia letting Kosovo Albanians participate can be seen as a form of creeping recognition, but on the other the truth is that this deal changes very little and provided that Serbia gains candidate status the cost will be considered worth it - certainly by the Serbian governing parties that may pick up just enough votes for an election victory (not many for sure) by getting candidate status.

I also read a comment today by editor of Vreme, Zarkovic stating that it may be no bad thing that Kosovo Albanian authorities will be answerable and have to operate in the open now. Up until now the lobbying for recognitions has gone on behind closed doors involving deals that nobody (including the Kosovo Albanian public) knows the fine details of. Kosovo government delegations would have to be more accountable.

And yes we all know that the EU still has major problems of its own and that full membership of the EU may not be in Serbia's interest. The proof of this point is the situation of Croatia - it is only now (TOO LATE!) that a debate is taking place in Croatia on whether it was sensible to join the EU from a business point of view. From now on Croatian goods sold to their primary market of the former Jugoslavija will be taxed heavily, in short those companies are screwed. Either the Croatian government pays something to compensate them in some way or some Croatian firms will relocate to Bosnia and Serbia.

Great news that could create hundreds of jobs for Serbians and Bosnians but bad for Croatia.

In summary, its the right thing to get candidate status, to be able to tap into more EU funds and to ensure that standards (consumer protection for example) are improved. Looking at it another way once we are comfortably warm in the waiting room, knowing there is a long wait other countries won't be able to impose their will upon Serbia so easily. Knowing this it is probably why Germany has been playing hardball until now.

Just to exhibit the obsurdity of the Serbian mindset I found this article pertaining to the USA helping Montenegrins that are stranded due to the crazy weather insightful. The USA is ferrying life saving supplies to residents who have no connection to help on the outside. Leave it up to a Serb to be negative as usual and to ruin the party by stating that they are upset that the USA is in Montenegro to help. Read below and then read the article at the link I provided.

"Given what had happened during the violent breakup of Serb-led Yugoslavia in the 1990s, not everyone was happy about the rescue effort."

"The American presence triggered anger among Serb nationalists in Montenegro who say the 72-day U.S.-led air war in Yugoslavia must not be forgotten."

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/52120

In the future "Serbs" please check mark the box on the sheet of paper that asks do you want "help" or "no help". Your people are better off freezing to death! Unbelievable that this is a life and death situation in Montenegro and these so called "Serbs" are putting politics before the well being of the citizens in need. This stance just shows you have more concern with hatred rather than the good of the people.

Amer, don't be such a tool. BGanon is saying that Pristina will have to be more transparent now, understand? The Albanians have lost their favorable status when the chubby Albanian chick signed on the dotted line last week. There is no demand from the US/EU that Kosovo be referred to as a "Republic", meaning, they do not give a rat's ass if you are independent or not. Tables have turned, my Albanian trolls, diplomacy is a bitch, and Pristina LOST! See you in the EU, NOT!

"... Kosovo Albanian authorities will be answerable and have to operate in the open now. Up until now the lobbying for recognitions has gone on behind closed doors involving deals that nobody (including the Kosovo Albanian public) knows the fine details of. Kosovo government delegations would have to be more accountable. "

Why would anyone expect this? There's hardly any information coming out about the pressures being exerted by Serbia's delegations and those acting on its behalf, after all. There's a fellow "Flying for Kosovo" to encourage more recognitions, and he's quoted some countries (I only remember Uruguay, specifically) saying they'd be happy to recognize Kosovo, but China has threatened loss of trade if they do. More light everywhere would be welcome, but I doubt we'll see it simply because Kosovo will be participating in more regional meetings.

It's interesting that the hypotheses of various troll-like persons who inhabit these pages has not come true.

The jury is out whether the EU is a good thing or a bad thing (most things in life shouldn't be viewed so simplistically) but this should be viewed as a win for Serbia as they have not relented to external pressure to recognize Kosovo.

Certainly ridicules one posters constant rantings about "reciprocity". In this situation it is Kosovo who has been told to behave and their naming is to be in accordance with UN resolutions.

Amer, don't be such a tool. BGanon is saying that Pristina will have to be more transparent now, understand? The Albanians have lost their favorable status when the chubby Albanian chick signed on the dotted line last week. There is no demand from the US/EU that Kosovo be referred to as a "Republic", meaning, they do not give a rat's ass if you are independent or not. Tables have turned, my Albanian trolls, diplomacy is a bitch, and Pristina LOST! See you in the EU, NOT!
(SerbiaRules, 27 February 2012 22:34)
Dear Ruler as an Albanian from Tirana I’m happy with the status for Serbia. More European Serbia becomes is better for the entire region. A European Serbia means a good neighbor for us. I wish European success to Serbia. See you in EU, YES!

If EU candidate status is received, it will be received at the expanse of KSerbs destiny, so IMHO it is Serbia's and other EU/US countries moral obligation to grant them refugee status and provide them with comfortable apartments in their respective countries if they decide to leave Kosovo.

...comfortable apartments and good working places...

Romania has objected because of the alleged discrimination of the Vlach community in Serbia. Some of my best friends are from this community, and I have never heard so much 'clap trap' in all my born days. Serbia has been accused of many things, but this is totally unjustified and will be treated as such I suspect by all right thinking people who know Serbia and its various communities. I welcome this news its long overdue. But I do hope that Serbia's policians now serve the people they represent rather than their own personal interests.

Now it is up to the serbian people to rise against this candidature and the pact that is about to be made. Joining the EU is more of a downfall deal in the long run. Do not join the EU. Period.

Whoever thinks that joining the EU is going to open the coffers and gold will pour out endlessly you’re in for a very disappointing time. It has only recently made known that Serbia will not access any benefits for another 20 years after joining.

Serbia need not go any further but Croatia and see how well things have improved since being given the green light for the EU. It now has to reduce the price of milk to match EU standards and meanwhile back at the ranch the farmers go broke and out of business.

That is the real price of joining the EU; if you are a small unit then you get goods dumped on your market to the point that your local economy goes up in smoke, but the politicians tell you how wonderful things are.

In the meantime the locals have to look at jobs outside their place of birth and so they go and clean toilets and hotel rooms in Germany or France etc and they keep telling you how wonderful and how far you have progressed. Ask the Poles how well they are going. As jobs vanish in paradise, large numbers have been returning to Poland, but there are no jobs there either. However, the freedom-loving western press somehow does not report on this at all but keeps singing the praises of ………….

I have seen many things in my life but it never fails to amaze me at human beings capacity to believe in BS.

The fact that Serbia will get this status was a foregone conclusion in that if Germany rejected it again then joining the EU would be over for ever as far as Serbia is concerned. So you see the Germens were more than keen to get a good result in these negotiations between Belgrade and Pristina. Hence Thaci had to give up many positions.

As far as the ordinary Albanians are concerned, they have paid a very high price – no recognition and status quo continues and so does stagnation and poverty. The demonstrations in Kosovo are proof of that fact.

The leadership of Serbia is prostituting the country...for what? For EU status? Look at Croatia. Look at Greece. Look at Bulgaria. Look at Romania? Why join a ship that is sinking? Why give an inch on anything? If the politicians would concentrate on creating a great environment for investment instead of lining their own pockets (and those of their friends), Serbia wouldn't need the EU to attract investment.

Bravo, Colin, all posts after yours have little significance. It will only be chimpanzee chest pounding.

The proof of this point is the situation of Croatia - it is only now (TOO LATE!) that a debate is taking place in Croatia on whether it was sensible to join the EU from a business point of view. From now on Croatian goods sold to their primary market of the former Jugoslavija will be taxed heavily, in short those companies are screwed. Either the Croatian government pays something to compensate them in some way or some Croatian firms will relocate to Bosnia and Serbia.
(bganon)

Now Croatia has visa-free regime for Russian tourists, but as a member of EU Croatia will have to abolish such facility, which could change Russian tourists preferences.

I read some Serbs believe it will be much easier to struggle for Kosovo being EU member with improved economy.

(bganon, 27 February 2012 16:42)

You totally get it, kudos to ya.

Being a candidate is like the best of both worlds. Money to develop EU standardisation and laws to attract more established and higher tech companies from Europe. Flexible enough not to downsize or quota successful domestic industry and the ability through the non-aligned movement, BRICS, EEU etc to sign off for more FTA's creating a valuable and important bridge for growth both ways. This has now the chance to create an industrial and later independent economic hub on the crossroads if played right.

If Serbia is fit, many in time will change allegiances to manufactured States and think about welfare first. Soft power works.

"Ask the Poles how well they are going. As jobs vanish in paradise, large numbers have been returning to Poland, but there are no jobs there either. However, the freedom-loving western press somehow does not report on this at all but keeps singing the praises of …………. "
(sj, 27 February 2012 22:31)

Good that you mention Poland. A good example. It had an unemployment ratio of about 20% (similar to Serbia) when it joined the EU in 2004. In 2011, it was below 12%, in 2008 even below 9%. So much about 'number of jobs'

Peggy I'm glad you agree with me on something! Its a wait and see policy. It may be that the face of the EU changes and that powerful EU countries won't be able to have the leverage they had in the past. For example if there is a so called two speed Europe, or if the Euro is abandoned. In the meantime watch, wait and devise strategy. Of course our political leaders are awful so they can usually be trusted to make poor decisions, but thats not so much to do with the EU.

Amer I don't agree. The policies of Kosovo Albanian authorities is more or less unquestioned - with the exception of the vocal Kurti and company. At international meetings and conferences other countries will have the opportunity to openly (and behind closed doors as well) pose questions concerning their policy. They will be forced to state their position on an international forum - up until now its been a case of dignitaries listening to Jeremic bemoan western policy, now there will be an opportunity to put reasonable concerns to Kosovo Albanian representatives.

On balance this is probably better for everybody.

Bganon, I agree with your post entirely, but what is going to happen when the waiting is over and it's Serbia's turn to get screwed?
Candidate status is wonderful provided it stays that way but we all know that all good things must come to an end and comes the time when we have to pay the piper.

To SJ....

You say there won't be any benefits in the next 20 years... What about easier access and security for foreign investors? Do you think that anybody will invest in Serbia if it stays out of the EU and if local energy suppliers continue to increase water and energy prices by 200% if an investor builds a factory in a municipality? If there is no security to enforce contracts? The EU and especially Germany is the biggest investor in greenfield FDIs. Do you think it is for the benefit of Serbia to stay isolated? Take a look at Cuba or North Korea and you will see what happens in case of insecurity and isolation. Apart from that, check the "European Regional Fund", there are huge development projects for poorer regions. Besides, the EU runs huge infrastructure projects by setting up trade corridors throughout the EU. Please provide a source for "It has only recently made known that Serbia will not access any benefits for another 20 years of joining".

Milk prices in Croatia... Indeed, you have always winners and loosers of any change. But if you look on any developed country, you will see that the agriculture sector contributes only with 1 or 2% to GDP with the same amount of people working in this sector. This is simply because you cannot run a country and pay for good education, health care, security, social care, R&D projects if you have 5% of the population owning ten cows to produce milk. On the other side of the coin, people have less money for food, clothes, education, .... if they spend most of their money on expensive milk from unproductive production. By joining the EU those farmers have for example the possibility to sell huge amounts of organic milk to the EU, if they change their farms or their children have the possibility to work in more productive sectors.

It is funny that you mention the Poles. Indeed, there were and are a lot of Poles coming to Western Europe. A lot of students went for example to London and received excellent education, they learned to speak perfectly english, and so on. Other were working in Germany, UK, Netherlands wherever, they learned the local languages (good for trade), gained experiences, they send money home, they gained respect for hard work... And now there are jobs in Poland, at least by far more than ten years ago when unemployment in Poland was around 35%. Now it is below 10%, the Polish economy is flourishing (Poland was the only country in Europe that was growing during crisis and did not face recession), Western Europe invests a lot in Poland and the Polish economy became competitive. On average they gain twice as much money compared to Serbia.
With their stronger economy their power and saying within the EU increased as well.
Many Poles do not return because they cannot find a job "in paradise" as you say. Many return because things are going better in Poland and there are more chances for a good future. Imagine all the millions of Serbs living in the diaspora coming back to Serbia, with money and their education they gained around the globe at good universities, Mercedes factories in Stuttgart, and so on. But if Serbia stays out of the EU and develops back into an agriculture country with insecurities, no freedom and a few cows running around, they will definitely not come back.

Moreover, Serbia will have even less bargaining power if it does not develop and relies on a protective agricultural sector. You get bargaining power through economic power, cultural power or a respected political system, otherwise you are the playball of the bigger countries. Many really overestimate the power of Serbia to influence something. As long as the Serbian economy produces only 0.3% (GDP of Serbia: GDP EU x100) of the GDP of the EU, it will not be able to defend any position in the long-run. Being a member of “the club” increases the bargaining power and security a lot. The EU is not a second Sovjet Union with so called “top down” structures (a central government or party dictates the regions what to do) but also with great possibilities for “bottom up” mechanisms and small countries have great possibilities to announce it and settle things if they feel disadvantaged. Or if they have trade or political issues with a third country in an area that does not affect the other member states, they can still rely on them as partners.

Good that you mention Poland. A good example. It had an unemployment ratio of about 20% (similar to Serbia) when it joined the EU in 2004. In 2011, it was below 12%, in 2008 even below 9%. So much about 'number of jobs'
(Comm. Parrisson, 28 February 2012 07:25)

Yes that is all true in what you have said, but the US had a 14 trillion dollar economy prior to the GFC and today despite being in its 4th year of a depression and its real estate, manufacturing etc is continuing to fall, but it now has a 15 trillion dollar economy. It’s called a “pea and thimble” trick – all done with a stroke of a pen. Same with Montenegro, it has a greater GDP than Serbia but 80% live on or below the poverty line.

On the matter of Poland, just ask yourself how many people from France or Germany or even Hungary have sought and found work there or have moved following getting a job. Why would Poles rather stay in the UK than return? I have nothing against the Poles they are lovely people but the truth is the truth.

For your information the unemployment rate in Poland is about 30%. It’s just that they now use western systems to hide it. Much like the US; its so called unemployment level is supposed to be 8.5% when even the academics now openly state that its more like 22%+.



Observer, 28 February 2012 17:44

The first holy rule of finance is that investment has nothing to do with wether you are in out of the EU. Corporations invest because there is profit and they will make a deal with Satan himself if there is money in it for them.

Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Slovenia etc and I see no real gain has been made since joining the EU Utopia. Don t kid your self investment comes if they can find CHEAP labour and resources not because your one of the “family”.

The second rule of finance is don’t be small because you will be eaten by the big fish. All of these little countries are only sources of cheap workers and dumping grounds for EU subsidised goods made by larger EU members. Its called capitalism or law of the financial jungle.

Look you have to wean yourselves off this GDP crap. As I said before the US had a GDP of 14 trillion prior to the GFC but today its 15 Trillion and its in its 4 year of a depression. It is now known that it has another 4 years before a Greek-style tsunami hits the US and this may be brought on much sooner if the EU goes into a recession.

Everything you have said here is straight out of material produced by the EU propaganda machinery. Not one piece is reality. On the infrastructure issue the EU has given money to Serbia for certain projects such as roads but it’s more for the EU’s benefit than Serbia’s. Yes it is true that due to the present economic crises in the EU Serbia will not access the benefits for another 20 years after joining – there is no more money.

Serbia’s economy was destroyed by the freedom-loving west so let’s not dwell too long there, but it has the potential to live extremely well outside the EU. I have listened with amusement on how once in Serbia will have access to all of the EU for its products. A nation of 10 million people can only produce so much so what is the point there?
The real power in Europe will not be the Germans, but the suppliers of energy i.e. the Russians.

The machinery is already being put into place for tighter controls by the EU central government (Germany) and as most dictatorship start, they are generally installed for the benefit of the people such as in the Soviet Union where for the first few years they had a democratic and open society that even the US could not come close to matching, but then came the changes and the same will happen to the EU.

Stick around and watch and see the changes – look at the US. Its now has laws on its books that even Stalin could not get passed in the Duma because of opposition. I’m not joking about this either, it’s a fact.

SJ, thank you for your long reply!
You are right with the GDP issue. You can have a great GDP and still most people live below the poverty line. This is measured with the gini-coefficient (between 0 and 1, while 0 means perfect equality in incomes and 1 perfect inequality = one owns all). But if you look at the country from the outside, it doesn't really matter if only a few own the wealth or not. A high GDP makes a powerful country. Though, it is quite hillarious and very sad that in a country rich as the US, every fourth children depends on meal vouchers. The gini coefficient of the US is heading towards o.5. A value of a third world country and the reason for the occupy movement. If you look at Europe, wealth is shared by far more equal, with Sweden leading the list with 0.23, Hungary next with 24.7, Germany 0.27 and so on. Even if you take the entire European Union as a whole with all its poorer but fast developing new Member States from the huge enlargement round, you have a value of 0.3.
Labour market in Poland... Where did you get those unemployment numbers from? I think they are outdated... And indeed, not that many "normal" workers from France or Germany go to Poland, because salaries are much lower. BUT, there are huge investments by those countries in Poland, and Germany for example produces a lot in Poland and many companies have sub-companies in Poland. There is also new and competetitive industry in Poland, for example busses (I forgot the name of the company). The new busses in Berlin and other cities are all of Polish production. The issue why there are more Poles in the UK or Germany is because and not the other way round is because you do not receive the same salary for the same work as it might be in the US.
About the "western systems to hide it", if the labour market in the US would be measured according to European standards it would be indeed above 20% as you say. Apart from that, check Eurostat, they measure unemployment according to ILO-standards.

I think you are wrong with your "holy rule of finance" and that it doesn't matter if you are in or out the EU. From the things you write you seem to be well educated in the area of finance and economy and then it might make sense what you write, though I dought it. The most important thing for investments is security. The EU is not just a common market, the EU legislature is above national legislature. This has tremendous effects; as a foreign investor you can settle trade disputes in front of the European Court of Justice and member states have to comply. If you invest for example in Japan, you can be more or less sure, that you won't face bigger suprises, because otherwise the reputation of the Japanese economy would fall and investments become more a kind of speculation. But in the case of Serbia, you have no great guarantees. Municipalities and local providers might increase taxes and costs by up to 50 times, after you invested for example in a factory. Since most investments in Serbia come from EU countries, this is a great obstacle for the development of the local economy.
You say there is no more money and infrastructure projects do not help the local economy. Of course there is money. Only because the governments might be in debt, does not mean that there is no money. Private savings in the EU are much higher than the state debts and this money has to be invested. Every coin you do not have under your pillow and which is at the bank is invested in something. Transportation routes, harbours (e.g. in Constanta in Romania) have a significant impact on the local economy because they attract investors and industry. The faster, cheaper and efficient a transportation route, the "closer" is the production site. If it takes 3 days and 100€ to transport a car part from Slovakia to Germany the benefit of lower salaries will be outweighted, but if it takes only 6 hours and 10€ (e.g. due to a fast railway network and no border controls), Slovakia becomes the most efficient place to produce (just to give an example) and Germany can sell a cheaper car to China. Jobs and income in Slovakia and Germany.
The point of the accession of the EU market for Serbian products is simple. It is the closest market. If Serbia wants to ship its vegetables, machinery or whatever to Russia or China or Brazil, prices of those products rise due to high costs of transportation. Serbia has nothing really unique to offer, that such transportation costs could be more or less excluded (e.g. Bananas, world leading high-tech products or something like that).
About Russia: Indeed, Europe is heavily dependent on Russia as an energy supplier and this will not change remarkably in the next 50 years I guess... But there are others as well such as Norway or the other oil producing countries and the EU is pushing renewable energies a lot. Germany produces already more than 25% of its energy from wind, water and solar energy. Some smaller states even more. What is left of Russia is a huge amount of nuclear bombs, veto power in the UN and a huge landmass. There is almost no industry left and 80% of exports are coal, oil, gas and timber. And this money is not invested in the development of the local industry or education. Besides the Russian elites emmigrate often to the US or EU. So you can see it from the other side, that Russia is also very dependant on Europe.
About democracy; you forget that you have long democratic traditions in Western Europe, Russia has never been a democracy before and most people do not have the awareness to keep their democratic rights. An example are the millions of people in every EU country against the ACTA laws. They have been quickly ratiefied by the elite in the US and Japan, but the Polish students (also a country with a huge awareness of democratic rights - e.g. Solidarity Movement) stood up, went on the streets and protests with several million protestors quickly spread all over Europe and they succeeded.
"EU central government (Germany)" - You really overestimate the power of Germany. Germans are just 17% of EU population and if you think that France, UK or other small but strong members such as the (economically even more successful) Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Austria or whoever simply receives orders from Berlin and follows them without any opposition you are really wrong. France set for example the condition for Germany's unifaction to introduce the Euro. Germany was not convinced by the Euro, but it made the best out of it. And also smaller and "weaker" members have a strong saying. For example when Russia blocked Polish imports, Poland made it an EU issue and the EU pressured Russia to accept Polish products again. It is a powerful community and not a central state and it would be highly beneficial for Serbia to be a part of it. And indeed, there is a call for tighter controls of the Southern states, but nor only by Germany, but by all Eurozone countries. What effect should it have if they pump money into Greece and nobody pays taxes and the money goes straight to some tax shelter?

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and maybe an answer.

(Observer, 29 February 2012 13:26)
Our postings are getting a little too long. I agree that wealth is much better distributed in Europe than the US. I have been saying for a long time that in the US poverty has skyrocketed in the last couple of years. In fact in 2009 the Department of Agriculture issued a statement where 60 million Americans could only afford to eat once per day and this figure would have ballooned to anywhere from 80 to 100 million today. The occupy movement has reasons for concern because they know that once the profit making stops the ordinary people will end up carrying the debt much like what has happened in Greece.
Although on paper joining the EU does sound very good but when put into practice it is a very different story. If it was done in a fair manner I wholeheartly agree with you statement without any reservations, but it sad to say it’s never done that way. Let’s look at Hungary for example. When they joined the EU there was great rejoicing as it would open markets to their farmers and manufacturers etc. After a year the local farmers started to complain that they were being sent broke because the EU countries were dumping their goods cheaper than a farmer living only a couple of kilometers outside of Budapest and when you take into account that these farmers are paid much less then their French counterparts it’s a worry.
As I have had some experience in unemployment statistics let me tell you something about them. Since the 1970s the methodology of collecting and classifying unemployment has changed dramatically. It can be traced back to moving of manufacturing overseas and this affects all western countries.
Since Australia is the only western country that has not fallen into a recession to date let me use it to explain. The official unemployment is 5.3%. In fact it is more like 11% to 12%. You see if you are unemployed but work ONLY 1 hour per week you are considered as fully employed. If you are being paid social security but are being retrained, you are not considered as unemployed and so it goes on. No matter what method you use no government employee is going to be brave enough to ask its Minister/Secretary to tell the world that its unemployment is much higher and they have been lying. The only country so far to have that courage is Spain which claims 20% unemployment.
Yes I agree with what you have said about buses being made in Poland and other manufacturers moving there, but here is the problem why do many Poles prefer to stay in the UK rather than go back home? There is a gap between the official storyline and reality. There is another method that you can use to see just how good life is in Poland. How many non Poles have managed to get a job there and have moved to Poland (not including senior management of companies that have moved there such as possible the bus manufacture)? Look at Turkey and how they are being praised as the next economic power etc and how manufacturing is jumping in leaps and bounds, but why doesn’t the EU open their doors to allow the Turks to move freely and see how many remain in Turkey. In essence propaganda material is usually better than reality.
Yes the EU has some very good institutions such as EU Court etc and yes it is difficult at the moment to invest in Serbia. However, this is a hangover from Tito days, but you see some of the investors also demand that they pay little to nothing and take all the profits outside the country. Nevertheless Serbia still has a long way to go. Just because Serbia joins the EU will not guarantee success as big corporations manipulate governments to suit their own goals.
I have been in finance industry for now 38 years and can tell you that it’s no better than a shark with a smile.
Let me say this again. The EU has run out of money and there is no better example that what is going on in Greece. All those loans are not even reaching Athens as they are stabilizing the banks only. So where does the EU get its money you ask? They have asked China and Russia to buy their bonds to maintain a fighting fund. The IMF has gone to these same countries asking greater investment in the bank. All EU money now comes from borrowings.
As far as transportation is concerned you will find that Australian farmers fly their fresh produce to places like Japan and Hong Kong. While Chinese manufacturing travels half way around the world and sells in Europe. Goods being transported these days are not stopped for inspection at every border crossing. Serbia is a small country but its important to the EU as its on the crossroads to Asia and that is why they want it in.
It will take a hundred years to achieve renewal energy that is as cheap as coal produced energy because the oil companies have an interest in keeping it so. Have you asked yourself why a place like California has such a poor public transport system? The oil companies and car manufacturers lobbied for this to happen. In fact in some cities in the US GM went and bought bus and tram companies and closed them.

Its not as clear cut as what you say in the case of Russia. It is a known fact that Mitsubishi, Toyota and Nissan have closed manufacturing in other parts of the world and opened up in Russia. Yes Russia has more to go before it can come up to your and my standards but its on the right path. The only Russians elites thasn have gone to the US or EU are thieves escaping prison. The greatest number of well educated that are seeking to leave their country come from the US and the greatest numbers seeking to go to the US are the poor who believe Hollywood movies.
How to rest if it’s a true democracy – if you have the same parties in power every couple of years then its not democracy, but if you have a variety of parties then it is a democracy. Let me start you on this, the US is not a democracy. People mix up democracy and a good standard of living.

Thank you for your answer.
I have just six short points.
1) I think language skills are an important factor for migration. Every student in Europe learns English in school. So it is easier for Poles to move to the UK, than for others to move to Poland. You ask why Poles prefer to stay in the UK: Because living standards are still much higher in the UK compared to Poland. Don't forget that Poland is still a young market economy and decades of "communism" left their footsteps in every part of the society and economy. You can see that very well in Germany. The eastern parts are still below the living standards of the west, although they have the same legal and economic system for more than 20 years... You say that Australia is the only western country that has not fallen into recession so far. Again, Poland has also not suffered from recession. Their economy was even growing in 2008, when all economies suffered from recession. Other western countries are flourishing again (Sweden 4.5%, Germany 3.5%, ....).
2) I know that they were asking China and Russia for money. But why not? The only reason not to do this could be "pride". You could also ask why the northern countries of Europe should spent money for Greece. Every coin that is given by Russia or China means a coin less for the northern countries. And they would be affected as well, if Greece falls. There are no United States of Europe so far and it is really hard to explain Finnish, Danish, Dutch or German tax payers, why they should spend their money on a corrupt country in which the rich elite is not paying their taxes.
3) I agree with you, if you have just two extremly dominating parties and never coalitions, the system is maybe not extremly democratic. Though, parties change during times. But I agree, I think multi-party systems with coalitions as in many European countries seem to be a bit more democratic.
4) I just read an article about some companies coming back to the US, because transportation costs become to expensive (as well as labour costs in China) and production deadlines expire more often. We will see..
5) I know that farmers often suffer from accession, but I think they are victims of a general economic development in the country. Agriculture is simply not efficient if you have only 10 cows. In Romania you have still farmers who do their fieldwork with bulls. This has no future if you want to develop the country. Their children are more productive if they become physicians instead of farmers. Those countries have a high population density (compared to the US or Russia), so it is not efficient to have 30 percent of the population working in the agricultural sector. In every developed country agriculture contributes only with 1,2 or 3% to GDP.
6) It depends how you calculate the costs for coal. If you include the costs for medical care for asthma, destroyed forests because of acid rain and so on, renewable energy becomes very competitive. Again, Europe has in most parts very high population densities, if you produce energy from coal, you have massive side-costs. But as far as I know, the US started to invest a lot in this sector and if you look at Europe, those lobbies have power, but still you have huge programms on renewable energy and even the car nation Germany has one of the best public transportation systems. This is the task of the government and politics; to internalise external production costs. Somebody always gets the bill for polluted rivers (fishers, increased costs for portable water), destroyed rain forrests (desertification, rising sea levels), oil disasters... Coal is the dirtiest way of producing energy (maybe next to nuclear energy) with the highest external costs.