Vuk Draskovic was a windbag and buffoon in 1999 and still is.
He quotes trade figures as endorsement of his EU or Nowhere stance
when in fact they're partly the result of that very outlook.
The government is too afraid to build better trade with anyone the EU might not approve of.
And I believe it highly unlikely that Milosevic ordered his murder.
Considering that British intelligence had toyed with assassinating Milosevic in exactly the same way gives a pretty good clue as to who was really behind the Draskovic incident.
In the Nineties Draskovic was a chronic disaster, forever frustrating opposition unity, always tangling the sponsor's strings, and so had to be put away.
He was certainly no danger to Milosevic. Quite the opposite.
That's my opinion.
As for Stambolic, I'm not so sure.
Regarding emigration, sure, people aspire to a better life.
Some make that leap.
Many later regret it too.
The British were also kind enough to sponsor communism to power in Yugoslavia, with it's inherent corruption and 'correctness', so my family moved to Australia in the early sixties.
Materially it was a good move, but they've certainly paid for it in other ways.
And like the USA, it's a country built on the bones and property of the original inhabitants whose survivors today rarely have the means to enjoy good teeth.
Well, you do make a good point about Brits' teeth, but I have to say, quite a few Brits have shown up on our shores, too -- my wife one of them -- and even they seem to think they're getting a better deal over here. But that's not such a huge step up for them, and I think the level of emigration we see to the UK bears that out. I rather doubt that you would find similar migratory trends when looking at Russia.
I agree that today's Serbia is still heavily corrupt, but the Ibar Highway incident to which you're referring occurred in 1999, so how is your point relevant?
In case all these facts mentioned are correct, it's a good summary for the Europhobes.
About the 'turning to Russia'. You can see on the 'balance' of Serbian imports/exports from/to Russia where Russia's interests in the region is coming from.
Wow, I'm surprised that anyone is still left in Russia, or the UK for that matter, when they could be enjoying white teeth in Boston.
Why is it that the British tend to have such bad teeth despite being members of the EU?
Folks have different priorities I guess . . . some people would sell their motherland for white teeth.
Or for a yellow button.
So nice to hear that Serbia is no longer corrupt, no doubt largely due to the selfless stewardship of Vuk and the other house slavs with the yellow buttons.
As for the truck full of sand, you're right of course, the British would never do such a thing.
Have a nice day.
Serbia exports and imports very little (about 10% of its economy). Montenegro and Republika Srpska are its most important export markets. Russia is its most important import market. These will remain unaffected if Serbia keeps out of the EU.
In Britain and Germany, exports and imports account for 60% of their economies. The EU is important for these countries, but not for Serbia.
Romania and Bulgaria had similar economies to Serbia before joining the EU. Are they any better today than Serbia? Remember Serbia has been attacked for the past 25 years with economic sanctions and by NATO bombs. Both Romania and Bulgaria should be far ahead of Serbia, but they are not.
The EU, despite all its pitfalls and short comings is still the best option for Serbia. There is more to be gained by joining the EU than by not. The alternative to the EU is to be in a state of limbo, nor here nor there. This is for Serbia to decide.
However, the current stumbling bloc for both the EU and Serbia is the lingering issue of independence for Kosovo. While for the Serbs it is a matter of national pride as well as giving up the cradle of 'Serbness' (if there is such a word), for the EU it is a simple matter of human rights and upholding international law,all of which is available on the internet.
There are two key points
1) The declaration of independence (by Kosovo) of the 17th of February 2008 did not violate general international law because international law contains no 'prohibition on declarations of independence.
2) In the last legitimate Yugoslav Constitution, Kosovo had the same legal right to self-determination (as has Vojvodina) that was the basis for independence of five of the six Yugoslav Republics: Croatia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Bosnia and Herzegovina.
The point I am trying to make is that Serbia lost Kosovo a long time ago but is living in denial. The only solution is to wake up to reality. Face it, The EU is within your grasp but this problem with Kosovo will not go away unless you make it go away.
Kosovo wants to be independent, it has a right to be, so let it be and everybody lives happily ever after.
The End.
(T, 25 February 2012 21:19)
"The average debt in the EU is still below the debt of the USA, the economy is recovering, maybe not in the south yet, but there soon as well."
(Observer)
First off everything you said sounds wonderful, it's a paradise... of course the Greeks are about to starve to death and you continue to strip them of everything they have because you can. On that point alone Serbs should be very cautious. As soon as they are done with Greece the Germans will move on to Portugal, and then Spain, and probably Italy and then France. All comparisons to the US are null and void since the US probably hasn't got much time left its own self. There's nothing made or grown in Serbia that won't be done better by another member of the EU. All the loans they are going to give you to fix your agricultural sector had better work, although, taking loans to become "even" with the EU (and the EU, meaning the Germans, will judge when you're ready to export) leaves a small country even further behind. This giant shell game has benefited Germany certainly, but every other EU country has suffered a lot from this. I've seen my country run this game in South America for a lot of years. What has saved them from complete destruction is having their own currency. We keep them afloat for their natural resources (Hello Greece!) but until we became mad and shipped all our manufacturing to Asia no small country could compete.
Just goes to show this man isnt mentally all there. Anyone with half a brain can see the situation of the EU can see that it is in its latter stage of existence and is on its way out, if Serbia was a part of it then Serbia would be dragged down with it. This man either isnt sane or he is motivated by money, he needs to go or someone needs to make him go before his wrecklessness actually starts to cause some damage.
(SCP UK, 25 February 2012 14:40)
===================================
Correct. All these China and Russia haters out there seem to forget that it's China who's been bailing out the US and EU not the other way around.
I have never bumped into an albanian in any stadium,museum,theatre or around any tourist sight.
(szemi, 25 February 2012 22:50)
Just look better - in particular for Henel Józsi, their group-leader (SS-Gruppenführer), he is always near some French cathedrals because he is a great, rich man and everyone on B92 has to know, he has money to visit cathedrals all over France.
Yeah, Serbia was such a corrupt-free society in the Milosevic years...how could ANYONE be so foolish as to suspect Sloba of being connected to the attempts on Vuk's life, or the murders of people like Ivan Stambolic and Slavko Curuvija. Just like it's totally foolish of any Serbian citizen to question the wisdom of choosing the EU over Russia, a shining example of a nation to which people all over the world are emigrating in search of greater freedom and prosperity. For instance, all these Russian immigrants I meet here in Boston just CAN'T WAIT to return to their wonderful homeland. When they break into huge smiles as they talk about the old-soon-to-become-new country, their beautiful white teeth speak volumes of the tremendous quality of life they've so stupidly left behind.
Uh-oh, he also hides a little thing. If you want to see the EC games this year in Poland, do not make a reservation on Pristina - Budapest - Warsaw MALÉV flight, that won't take you where you want, don't know, why but that's the rumor here. Also that is largely due EU's generous help.
BTW: a good reason why do we pay more to ENI (the Italian utility company) for the gas in Hungary than Italians do in Italy is because the Hungarian salaries are bigger than Italian. So good news for you regarding EU, just don't book MALÉV for now. Not even from Skopje.
(Ataman, 25 February 2012 21:00)
An albanian going to EC.What an idea?I have never bumped into an albanian in any stadium,museum,theatre or around any tourist sight.While going abroad they are interested in selling more drugs stealing more cars or visting their relatives running bordel rings.Their comments on this forum very well reflect their IQ level and very linear limited way of thinking.
They also hide the fact that Chinese loans are three times more expensive then European ones and we don’t even get donations from those countries,” the SPO leader concluded.
Sincerely,
(KOSO, 25 February 2012 16:19)
Uh-oh, he also hides a little thing. If you want to see the EC games this year in Poland, do not make a reservation on Pristina - Budapest - Warsaw MALÉV flight, that won't take you where you want, don't know, why but that's the rumor here. Also that is largely due EU's generous help.
BTW: a good reason why do we pay more to ENI (the Italian utility company) for the gas in Hungary than Italians do in Italy is because the Hungarian salaries are bigger than Italian. So good news for you regarding EU, just don't book MALÉV for now. Not even from Skopje.
To add something, take a look at these polls conducted every year by the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2011/03_march/07/brazil.shtml
And check out the pdf for more detailed information. You will see, that the EU and the biggest European countries are highly appreciated (and even more in 2011 than 2010) on an international scale. So I think the way the European countries go, can't be too bad...
“Of course, the EU has an alternative and many people here advocate that Serbia should turn its strategic interests toward Russia, China, India, Brazil, Azerbaijan and the non-aligned. And those Europhobes hide from the citizens that Serbia’s export to Montenegro is greater than export to Russia and that export to Kosovo is 150 times greater than export to China and that our export to Croatia is ten times greater than export to India, Azerbaijan and India combined. They also hide the fact that Chinese loans are three times more expensive then European ones and we don’t even get donations from those countries,” the SPO leader concluded.
The man speaks sense and I couldnt agree more! Of course all those EU haters, crazy nationalists, and Russian fantasists would naturally think otherwise. Those that advokate Serbia trying to make it with the non-aligned movement again and keeping cosy with Russia are ignoring the end results of such a ludicrous policy which has been followed in the past - it only takes a short visit today to Serbia to see the result: An impoverished, litter strewn, broken-down country.
to SCP UK:
Right. Do you think this crisis will "destroy" the EU and the MS will give up their achievements of the last 60 years? There were many crisis before, oil crisis, external crisis, whatever. The EU always became stronger. The average debt in the EU is still below the debt of the USA, the economy is recovering, maybe not in the south yet, but there soon as well. The Euro is appreciating again, while inflation is far below the inflation in the UK and US, and especially in Serbia. Exports are increasing, there is a growing sense of common values (anti ACTA protests), people can travel without border controls and exchanging money in the Eurozone, every year more students study abroad, living standards are by far higher compared to Serbia, new member states benefit a lot from the internal market and develop even faster since accession (Romania, Bulgaria), cross-border investments can rely on a common legal framework, more and more policies are harmonised, the EU becomes an ever stronger negotiator in international talks (because single states have no great bargaining power, EU's carbon emission scheme for flights), the European countries run giant cross-border research programmes, they have cross-border companies (Airbus, many others), they secure each others democracies, common security and production standards make the European economy more efficient, economies of scale, no war for 67 years, opinion polls show, that the support for and trust in the neighbours is increasing, cross-border traveling and working becomes easier and cheaper (huge infrastructure projects to establish transportation corridors, banking standards, decreasing costs for inter-EU phone calls, ...), just to name a few things and achievements. Of course the EU is not perfect or anything, it's an ongoing process. But do you think there wouldn't be any crisis without the EU?
Do you think the member states would like to give up these achievements? In an ever more globalised world with new players? Do you really the biggest economy of the world will fall back in the stone age? The EU bears an enormous human capital and experience, not just well educated people, but also people which are experienced in keeping up a society with press freedom, democratic rights, social systems, rational thinking, secularisation, humanistic background, and so on. If you think this will fall with the crisis right now, you are really naive.
Just goes to show this man isnt mentally all there. Anyone with half a brain can see the situation of the EU can see that it is in its latter stage of existence and is on its way out, if Serbia was a part of it then Serbia would be dragged down with it. This man either isnt sane or he is motivated by money, he needs to go or someone needs to make him go before his wrecklessness actually starts to cause some damage.
Gee, that third class ticket aboard the Titanic sounds sooo good!
All this coming from a guy who still thinks Milosevic arranged to have him killed in an accident with a truck full of sand.
The very same method previously considered by the British to assassinate Milosevic.
Coincidence?
Draskovic obviously doesn't see any connection.
He was so inept and divisive as an opponent to Milosevic that his foreign masters decided they had to put him down for their plans to ever succeed.
To Milosevic he would have been a valuable asset, a treasure, to be protected at all costs.
to SCP UK:
Right. Do you think this crisis will "destroy" the EU and the MS will give up their achievements of the last 60 years? There were many crisis before, oil crisis, external crisis, whatever. The EU always became stronger. The average debt in the EU is still below the debt of the USA, the economy is recovering, maybe not in the south yet, but there soon as well. The Euro is appreciating again, while inflation is far below the inflation in the UK and US, and especially in Serbia. Exports are increasing, there is a growing sense of common values (anti ACTA protests), people can travel without border controls and exchanging money in the Eurozone, every year more students study abroad, living standards are by far higher compared to Serbia, new member states benefit a lot from the internal market and develop even faster since accession (Romania, Bulgaria), cross-border investments can rely on a common legal framework, more and more policies are harmonised, the EU becomes an ever stronger negotiator in international talks (because single states have no great bargaining power, EU's carbon emission scheme for flights), the European countries run giant cross-border research programmes, they have cross-border companies (Airbus, many others), they secure each others democracies, common security and production standards make the European economy more efficient, economies of scale, no war for 67 years, opinion polls show, that the support for and trust in the neighbours is increasing, cross-border traveling and working becomes easier and cheaper (huge infrastructure projects to establish transportation corridors, banking standards, decreasing costs for inter-EU phone calls, ...), just to name a few things and achievements. Of course the EU is not perfect or anything, it's an ongoing process. But do you think there wouldn't be any crisis without the EU?
Do you think the member states would like to give up these achievements? In an ever more globalised world with new players? Do you really the biggest economy of the world will fall back in the stone age? The EU bears an enormous human capital and experience, not just well educated people, but also people which are experienced in keeping up a society with press freedom, democratic rights, social systems, rational thinking, secularisation, humanistic background, and so on. If you think this will fall with the crisis right now, you are really naive.
The man speaks sense and I couldnt agree more! Of course all those EU haters, crazy nationalists, and Russian fantasists would naturally think otherwise. Those that advokate Serbia trying to make it with the non-aligned movement again and keeping cosy with Russia are ignoring the end results of such a ludicrous policy which has been followed in the past - it only takes a short visit today to Serbia to see the result: An impoverished, litter strewn, broken-down country.
To add something, take a look at these polls conducted every year by the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2011/03_march/07/brazil.shtml
And check out the pdf for more detailed information. You will see, that the EU and the biggest European countries are highly appreciated (and even more in 2011 than 2010) on an international scale. So I think the way the European countries go, can't be too bad...
Gee, that third class ticket aboard the Titanic sounds sooo good!
All this coming from a guy who still thinks Milosevic arranged to have him killed in an accident with a truck full of sand.
The very same method previously considered by the British to assassinate Milosevic.
Coincidence?
Draskovic obviously doesn't see any connection.
He was so inept and divisive as an opponent to Milosevic that his foreign masters decided they had to put him down for their plans to ever succeed.
To Milosevic he would have been a valuable asset, a treasure, to be protected at all costs.
Yeah, Serbia was such a corrupt-free society in the Milosevic years...how could ANYONE be so foolish as to suspect Sloba of being connected to the attempts on Vuk's life, or the murders of people like Ivan Stambolic and Slavko Curuvija. Just like it's totally foolish of any Serbian citizen to question the wisdom of choosing the EU over Russia, a shining example of a nation to which people all over the world are emigrating in search of greater freedom and prosperity. For instance, all these Russian immigrants I meet here in Boston just CAN'T WAIT to return to their wonderful homeland. When they break into huge smiles as they talk about the old-soon-to-become-new country, their beautiful white teeth speak volumes of the tremendous quality of life they've so stupidly left behind.
The EU, despite all its pitfalls and short comings is still the best option for Serbia. There is more to be gained by joining the EU than by not. The alternative to the EU is to be in a state of limbo, nor here nor there. This is for Serbia to decide.
However, the current stumbling bloc for both the EU and Serbia is the lingering issue of independence for Kosovo. While for the Serbs it is a matter of national pride as well as giving up the cradle of 'Serbness' (if there is such a word), for the EU it is a simple matter of human rights and upholding international law,all of which is available on the internet.
There are two key points
1) The declaration of independence (by Kosovo) of the 17th of February 2008 did not violate general international law because international law contains no 'prohibition on declarations of independence.
2) In the last legitimate Yugoslav Constitution, Kosovo had the same legal right to self-determination (as has Vojvodina) that was the basis for independence of five of the six Yugoslav Republics: Croatia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Bosnia and Herzegovina.
The point I am trying to make is that Serbia lost Kosovo a long time ago but is living in denial. The only solution is to wake up to reality. Face it, The EU is within your grasp but this problem with Kosovo will not go away unless you make it go away.
Kosovo wants to be independent, it has a right to be, so let it be and everybody lives happily ever after.
The End.
(T, 25 February 2012 21:19)
Just goes to show this man isnt mentally all there. Anyone with half a brain can see the situation of the EU can see that it is in its latter stage of existence and is on its way out, if Serbia was a part of it then Serbia would be dragged down with it. This man either isnt sane or he is motivated by money, he needs to go or someone needs to make him go before his wrecklessness actually starts to cause some damage.
Just goes to show this man isnt mentally all there. Anyone with half a brain can see the situation of the EU can see that it is in its latter stage of existence and is on its way out, if Serbia was a part of it then Serbia would be dragged down with it. This man either isnt sane or he is motivated by money, he needs to go or someone needs to make him go before his wrecklessness actually starts to cause some damage.
(SCP UK, 25 February 2012 14:40)
===================================
Correct. All these China and Russia haters out there seem to forget that it's China who's been bailing out the US and EU not the other way around.
“Of course, the EU has an alternative and many people here advocate that Serbia should turn its strategic interests toward Russia, China, India, Brazil, Azerbaijan and the non-aligned. And those Europhobes hide from the citizens that Serbia’s export to Montenegro is greater than export to Russia and that export to Kosovo is 150 times greater than export to China and that our export to Croatia is ten times greater than export to India, Azerbaijan and India combined. They also hide the fact that Chinese loans are three times more expensive then European ones and we don’t even get donations from those countries,” the SPO leader concluded.
Uh-oh, he also hides a little thing. If you want to see the EC games this year in Poland, do not make a reservation on Pristina - Budapest - Warsaw MALÉV flight, that won't take you where you want, don't know, why but that's the rumor here. Also that is largely due EU's generous help.
BTW: a good reason why do we pay more to ENI (the Italian utility company) for the gas in Hungary than Italians do in Italy is because the Hungarian salaries are bigger than Italian. So good news for you regarding EU, just don't book MALÉV for now. Not even from Skopje.
(Ataman, 25 February 2012 21:00)
An albanian going to EC.What an idea?I have never bumped into an albanian in any stadium,museum,theatre or around any tourist sight.While going abroad they are interested in selling more drugs stealing more cars or visting their relatives running bordel rings.Their comments on this forum very well reflect their IQ level and very linear limited way of thinking.
Serbia exports and imports very little (about 10% of its economy). Montenegro and Republika Srpska are its most important export markets. Russia is its most important import market. These will remain unaffected if Serbia keeps out of the EU.
In Britain and Germany, exports and imports account for 60% of their economies. The EU is important for these countries, but not for Serbia.
Romania and Bulgaria had similar economies to Serbia before joining the EU. Are they any better today than Serbia? Remember Serbia has been attacked for the past 25 years with economic sanctions and by NATO bombs. Both Romania and Bulgaria should be far ahead of Serbia, but they are not.
They also hide the fact that Chinese loans are three times more expensive then European ones and we don’t even get donations from those countries,” the SPO leader concluded.
Sincerely,
(KOSO, 25 February 2012 16:19)
Uh-oh, he also hides a little thing. If you want to see the EC games this year in Poland, do not make a reservation on Pristina - Budapest - Warsaw MALÉV flight, that won't take you where you want, don't know, why but that's the rumor here. Also that is largely due EU's generous help.
BTW: a good reason why do we pay more to ENI (the Italian utility company) for the gas in Hungary than Italians do in Italy is because the Hungarian salaries are bigger than Italian. So good news for you regarding EU, just don't book MALÉV for now. Not even from Skopje.
I have never bumped into an albanian in any stadium,museum,theatre or around any tourist sight.
(szemi, 25 February 2012 22:50)
Just look better - in particular for Henel Józsi, their group-leader (SS-Gruppenführer), he is always near some French cathedrals because he is a great, rich man and everyone on B92 has to know, he has money to visit cathedrals all over France.
"The average debt in the EU is still below the debt of the USA, the economy is recovering, maybe not in the south yet, but there soon as well."
(Observer)
First off everything you said sounds wonderful, it's a paradise... of course the Greeks are about to starve to death and you continue to strip them of everything they have because you can. On that point alone Serbs should be very cautious. As soon as they are done with Greece the Germans will move on to Portugal, and then Spain, and probably Italy and then France. All comparisons to the US are null and void since the US probably hasn't got much time left its own self. There's nothing made or grown in Serbia that won't be done better by another member of the EU. All the loans they are going to give you to fix your agricultural sector had better work, although, taking loans to become "even" with the EU (and the EU, meaning the Germans, will judge when you're ready to export) leaves a small country even further behind. This giant shell game has benefited Germany certainly, but every other EU country has suffered a lot from this. I've seen my country run this game in South America for a lot of years. What has saved them from complete destruction is having their own currency. We keep them afloat for their natural resources (Hello Greece!) but until we became mad and shipped all our manufacturing to Asia no small country could compete.
Wow, I'm surprised that anyone is still left in Russia, or the UK for that matter, when they could be enjoying white teeth in Boston.
Why is it that the British tend to have such bad teeth despite being members of the EU?
Folks have different priorities I guess . . . some people would sell their motherland for white teeth.
Or for a yellow button.
So nice to hear that Serbia is no longer corrupt, no doubt largely due to the selfless stewardship of Vuk and the other house slavs with the yellow buttons.
As for the truck full of sand, you're right of course, the British would never do such a thing.
Have a nice day.
In case all these facts mentioned are correct, it's a good summary for the Europhobes.
About the 'turning to Russia'. You can see on the 'balance' of Serbian imports/exports from/to Russia where Russia's interests in the region is coming from.
Vuk Draskovic was a windbag and buffoon in 1999 and still is.
He quotes trade figures as endorsement of his EU or Nowhere stance
when in fact they're partly the result of that very outlook.
The government is too afraid to build better trade with anyone the EU might not approve of.
And I believe it highly unlikely that Milosevic ordered his murder.
Considering that British intelligence had toyed with assassinating Milosevic in exactly the same way gives a pretty good clue as to who was really behind the Draskovic incident.
In the Nineties Draskovic was a chronic disaster, forever frustrating opposition unity, always tangling the sponsor's strings, and so had to be put away.
He was certainly no danger to Milosevic. Quite the opposite.
That's my opinion.
As for Stambolic, I'm not so sure.
Regarding emigration, sure, people aspire to a better life.
Some make that leap.
Many later regret it too.
The British were also kind enough to sponsor communism to power in Yugoslavia, with it's inherent corruption and 'correctness', so my family moved to Australia in the early sixties.
Materially it was a good move, but they've certainly paid for it in other ways.
And like the USA, it's a country built on the bones and property of the original inhabitants whose survivors today rarely have the means to enjoy good teeth.
Well, you do make a good point about Brits' teeth, but I have to say, quite a few Brits have shown up on our shores, too -- my wife one of them -- and even they seem to think they're getting a better deal over here. But that's not such a huge step up for them, and I think the level of emigration we see to the UK bears that out. I rather doubt that you would find similar migratory trends when looking at Russia.
I agree that today's Serbia is still heavily corrupt, but the Ibar Highway incident to which you're referring occurred in 1999, so how is your point relevant?
Just goes to show this man isnt mentally all there. Anyone with half a brain can see the situation of the EU can see that it is in its latter stage of existence and is on its way out, if Serbia was a part of it then Serbia would be dragged down with it. This man either isnt sane or he is motivated by money, he needs to go or someone needs to make him go before his wrecklessness actually starts to cause some damage.
Gee, that third class ticket aboard the Titanic sounds sooo good!
All this coming from a guy who still thinks Milosevic arranged to have him killed in an accident with a truck full of sand.
The very same method previously considered by the British to assassinate Milosevic.
Coincidence?
Draskovic obviously doesn't see any connection.
He was so inept and divisive as an opponent to Milosevic that his foreign masters decided they had to put him down for their plans to ever succeed.
To Milosevic he would have been a valuable asset, a treasure, to be protected at all costs.
Uh-oh, he also hides a little thing. If you want to see the EC games this year in Poland, do not make a reservation on Pristina - Budapest - Warsaw MALÉV flight, that won't take you where you want, don't know, why but that's the rumor here. Also that is largely due EU's generous help.
BTW: a good reason why do we pay more to ENI (the Italian utility company) for the gas in Hungary than Italians do in Italy is because the Hungarian salaries are bigger than Italian. So good news for you regarding EU, just don't book MALÉV for now. Not even from Skopje.
(Ataman, 25 February 2012 21:00)
An albanian going to EC.What an idea?I have never bumped into an albanian in any stadium,museum,theatre or around any tourist sight.While going abroad they are interested in selling more drugs stealing more cars or visting their relatives running bordel rings.Their comments on this forum very well reflect their IQ level and very linear limited way of thinking.
to SCP UK:
Right. Do you think this crisis will "destroy" the EU and the MS will give up their achievements of the last 60 years? There were many crisis before, oil crisis, external crisis, whatever. The EU always became stronger. The average debt in the EU is still below the debt of the USA, the economy is recovering, maybe not in the south yet, but there soon as well. The Euro is appreciating again, while inflation is far below the inflation in the UK and US, and especially in Serbia. Exports are increasing, there is a growing sense of common values (anti ACTA protests), people can travel without border controls and exchanging money in the Eurozone, every year more students study abroad, living standards are by far higher compared to Serbia, new member states benefit a lot from the internal market and develop even faster since accession (Romania, Bulgaria), cross-border investments can rely on a common legal framework, more and more policies are harmonised, the EU becomes an ever stronger negotiator in international talks (because single states have no great bargaining power, EU's carbon emission scheme for flights), the European countries run giant cross-border research programmes, they have cross-border companies (Airbus, many others), they secure each others democracies, common security and production standards make the European economy more efficient, economies of scale, no war for 67 years, opinion polls show, that the support for and trust in the neighbours is increasing, cross-border traveling and working becomes easier and cheaper (huge infrastructure projects to establish transportation corridors, banking standards, decreasing costs for inter-EU phone calls, ...), just to name a few things and achievements. Of course the EU is not perfect or anything, it's an ongoing process. But do you think there wouldn't be any crisis without the EU?
Do you think the member states would like to give up these achievements? In an ever more globalised world with new players? Do you really the biggest economy of the world will fall back in the stone age? The EU bears an enormous human capital and experience, not just well educated people, but also people which are experienced in keeping up a society with press freedom, democratic rights, social systems, rational thinking, secularisation, humanistic background, and so on. If you think this will fall with the crisis right now, you are really naive.
The man speaks sense and I couldnt agree more! Of course all those EU haters, crazy nationalists, and Russian fantasists would naturally think otherwise. Those that advokate Serbia trying to make it with the non-aligned movement again and keeping cosy with Russia are ignoring the end results of such a ludicrous policy which has been followed in the past - it only takes a short visit today to Serbia to see the result: An impoverished, litter strewn, broken-down country.
To add something, take a look at these polls conducted every year by the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2011/03_march/07/brazil.shtml
And check out the pdf for more detailed information. You will see, that the EU and the biggest European countries are highly appreciated (and even more in 2011 than 2010) on an international scale. So I think the way the European countries go, can't be too bad...
They also hide the fact that Chinese loans are three times more expensive then European ones and we don’t even get donations from those countries,” the SPO leader concluded.
Sincerely,
(KOSO, 25 February 2012 16:19)
Uh-oh, he also hides a little thing. If you want to see the EC games this year in Poland, do not make a reservation on Pristina - Budapest - Warsaw MALÉV flight, that won't take you where you want, don't know, why but that's the rumor here. Also that is largely due EU's generous help.
BTW: a good reason why do we pay more to ENI (the Italian utility company) for the gas in Hungary than Italians do in Italy is because the Hungarian salaries are bigger than Italian. So good news for you regarding EU, just don't book MALÉV for now. Not even from Skopje.
Just goes to show this man isnt mentally all there. Anyone with half a brain can see the situation of the EU can see that it is in its latter stage of existence and is on its way out, if Serbia was a part of it then Serbia would be dragged down with it. This man either isnt sane or he is motivated by money, he needs to go or someone needs to make him go before his wrecklessness actually starts to cause some damage.
(SCP UK, 25 February 2012 14:40)
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Correct. All these China and Russia haters out there seem to forget that it's China who's been bailing out the US and EU not the other way around.
Serbia exports and imports very little (about 10% of its economy). Montenegro and Republika Srpska are its most important export markets. Russia is its most important import market. These will remain unaffected if Serbia keeps out of the EU.
In Britain and Germany, exports and imports account for 60% of their economies. The EU is important for these countries, but not for Serbia.
Romania and Bulgaria had similar economies to Serbia before joining the EU. Are they any better today than Serbia? Remember Serbia has been attacked for the past 25 years with economic sanctions and by NATO bombs. Both Romania and Bulgaria should be far ahead of Serbia, but they are not.
“Of course, the EU has an alternative and many people here advocate that Serbia should turn its strategic interests toward Russia, China, India, Brazil, Azerbaijan and the non-aligned. And those Europhobes hide from the citizens that Serbia’s export to Montenegro is greater than export to Russia and that export to Kosovo is 150 times greater than export to China and that our export to Croatia is ten times greater than export to India, Azerbaijan and India combined. They also hide the fact that Chinese loans are three times more expensive then European ones and we don’t even get donations from those countries,” the SPO leader concluded.
Yeah, Serbia was such a corrupt-free society in the Milosevic years...how could ANYONE be so foolish as to suspect Sloba of being connected to the attempts on Vuk's life, or the murders of people like Ivan Stambolic and Slavko Curuvija. Just like it's totally foolish of any Serbian citizen to question the wisdom of choosing the EU over Russia, a shining example of a nation to which people all over the world are emigrating in search of greater freedom and prosperity. For instance, all these Russian immigrants I meet here in Boston just CAN'T WAIT to return to their wonderful homeland. When they break into huge smiles as they talk about the old-soon-to-become-new country, their beautiful white teeth speak volumes of the tremendous quality of life they've so stupidly left behind.
I have never bumped into an albanian in any stadium,museum,theatre or around any tourist sight.
(szemi, 25 February 2012 22:50)
Just look better - in particular for Henel Józsi, their group-leader (SS-Gruppenführer), he is always near some French cathedrals because he is a great, rich man and everyone on B92 has to know, he has money to visit cathedrals all over France.
"The average debt in the EU is still below the debt of the USA, the economy is recovering, maybe not in the south yet, but there soon as well."
(Observer)
First off everything you said sounds wonderful, it's a paradise... of course the Greeks are about to starve to death and you continue to strip them of everything they have because you can. On that point alone Serbs should be very cautious. As soon as they are done with Greece the Germans will move on to Portugal, and then Spain, and probably Italy and then France. All comparisons to the US are null and void since the US probably hasn't got much time left its own self. There's nothing made or grown in Serbia that won't be done better by another member of the EU. All the loans they are going to give you to fix your agricultural sector had better work, although, taking loans to become "even" with the EU (and the EU, meaning the Germans, will judge when you're ready to export) leaves a small country even further behind. This giant shell game has benefited Germany certainly, but every other EU country has suffered a lot from this. I've seen my country run this game in South America for a lot of years. What has saved them from complete destruction is having their own currency. We keep them afloat for their natural resources (Hello Greece!) but until we became mad and shipped all our manufacturing to Asia no small country could compete.
The EU, despite all its pitfalls and short comings is still the best option for Serbia. There is more to be gained by joining the EU than by not. The alternative to the EU is to be in a state of limbo, nor here nor there. This is for Serbia to decide.
However, the current stumbling bloc for both the EU and Serbia is the lingering issue of independence for Kosovo. While for the Serbs it is a matter of national pride as well as giving up the cradle of 'Serbness' (if there is such a word), for the EU it is a simple matter of human rights and upholding international law,all of which is available on the internet.
There are two key points
1) The declaration of independence (by Kosovo) of the 17th of February 2008 did not violate general international law because international law contains no 'prohibition on declarations of independence.
2) In the last legitimate Yugoslav Constitution, Kosovo had the same legal right to self-determination (as has Vojvodina) that was the basis for independence of five of the six Yugoslav Republics: Croatia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Bosnia and Herzegovina.
The point I am trying to make is that Serbia lost Kosovo a long time ago but is living in denial. The only solution is to wake up to reality. Face it, The EU is within your grasp but this problem with Kosovo will not go away unless you make it go away.
Kosovo wants to be independent, it has a right to be, so let it be and everybody lives happily ever after.
The End.
(T, 25 February 2012 21:19)
Wow, I'm surprised that anyone is still left in Russia, or the UK for that matter, when they could be enjoying white teeth in Boston.
Why is it that the British tend to have such bad teeth despite being members of the EU?
Folks have different priorities I guess . . . some people would sell their motherland for white teeth.
Or for a yellow button.
So nice to hear that Serbia is no longer corrupt, no doubt largely due to the selfless stewardship of Vuk and the other house slavs with the yellow buttons.
As for the truck full of sand, you're right of course, the British would never do such a thing.
Have a nice day.
In case all these facts mentioned are correct, it's a good summary for the Europhobes.
About the 'turning to Russia'. You can see on the 'balance' of Serbian imports/exports from/to Russia where Russia's interests in the region is coming from.
Well, you do make a good point about Brits' teeth, but I have to say, quite a few Brits have shown up on our shores, too -- my wife one of them -- and even they seem to think they're getting a better deal over here. But that's not such a huge step up for them, and I think the level of emigration we see to the UK bears that out. I rather doubt that you would find similar migratory trends when looking at Russia.
I agree that today's Serbia is still heavily corrupt, but the Ibar Highway incident to which you're referring occurred in 1999, so how is your point relevant?
Vuk Draskovic was a windbag and buffoon in 1999 and still is.
He quotes trade figures as endorsement of his EU or Nowhere stance
when in fact they're partly the result of that very outlook.
The government is too afraid to build better trade with anyone the EU might not approve of.
And I believe it highly unlikely that Milosevic ordered his murder.
Considering that British intelligence had toyed with assassinating Milosevic in exactly the same way gives a pretty good clue as to who was really behind the Draskovic incident.
In the Nineties Draskovic was a chronic disaster, forever frustrating opposition unity, always tangling the sponsor's strings, and so had to be put away.
He was certainly no danger to Milosevic. Quite the opposite.
That's my opinion.
As for Stambolic, I'm not so sure.
Regarding emigration, sure, people aspire to a better life.
Some make that leap.
Many later regret it too.
The British were also kind enough to sponsor communism to power in Yugoslavia, with it's inherent corruption and 'correctness', so my family moved to Australia in the early sixties.
Materially it was a good move, but they've certainly paid for it in other ways.
And like the USA, it's a country built on the bones and property of the original inhabitants whose survivors today rarely have the means to enjoy good teeth.
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