Top Serbian officials meet with German foreign minister

I hope you are right, Lenard. I have some things I could say to him, regarding the crimes his forefathers, and yours from the Ustashe, did against the civilian population in the Balkans. Now these offspring of the Third Reich come to the Balkans again to conquer and rule. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same old thing. Try a new hobby, like pulling wings off of insects.

Guido, who attended Angelina Jolie's garbage propoganda anti-Serb movie (which is a complete flop - there is karma) with his husband, has pumped himself up to spit on Serbia again. Go home Guido, you are not welcome on Serbian soil. I suggest you go to Croatia, muslim Bosnia, or albania, where they will kiss your feet and shine your shoes. Serbia is not part of your Fourth Reich, and it never will be.
Cheers!!

"If Serbia really want to join EU at some points it MUST recognise Kosovo independence first. I can not see any other way" . . . EA with his daily cut and paste spam. You too, EA, don't you ever get tired of the same old crap? You know that Serbia will not recognize an independent narco-state, operated by ex-KLA organ-harvestors, on its own territory, not in your lifetime any way, so why waste bandwidth on a daily basis? Read the attached link, and be honest, does this hell hole deserve independence? http://www.vesti-online.com/Vesti/Srbija/204331/Evropol-Kosovo-je-crna-rupa-Evrope
And this is the guy at helm of the Newborn sewer http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2011&mm=10&dd=21&nav_id=76970

Oh dear winston, when are you going to get rid of this victim mentality? Out of curiosity, does the suffering of Serbs in say WW2 justify the massacres that were done by Serbs in the wars of Yugoslavia? I'm now thinking of Srebrenica, Croatia, Kosova? Oh and kudos for somehow believing that Albanians killed millions in the 1940's. I'd love to read the books you've been reading.

p.s. yes the Nazis were guilty of horrendous crimes, but Germans that cafe after them, denounce those actions and admit them. Can't say the same for most Serbs posters here, after all, according to most, Srebrenica was not a genocide

I hope Germany will make it clearer to Serbia that the EU doesn't want another frozen conflict in its ranks ie Cyprus, Macedonia name issue with Greece.

If Serbia really want to join EU at some points it MUST recognise Kosovo independence first. I can not see any other way.

The words "compromise", "red lines", "Serbian constitution" "asymetric representation" are full of nonsenses when it comes to Kosovo issue.

Someone must be INSANE even to think the Serbian sovereignity and territorial integrity over Kosovo.

@ winston,

That is no new hobby. In fact, that hobby was the catalyst for causing terror across the Balkans. It all started when a group of Germans & Austrians were playing in the field and caught some insects. Instead of admiring the very beauty of nature, they started to pull the wings one by one until the insect died a slow & painful death.

@ Guido Westerwelle,
Please don't visit Serbia. Can't you send a telegram or something? At least then we wouldn't have to give you our hospitality and allow your dirty feet into our country.

So.. the Germans are taking the reigns of the EU in the case of Serbia's EU candidacy. I think it's time that Germany stop acting like the head of the EU.

Merkel denied Serbia candidate status because a German soldier was shot in Kosovo. Well we are not stupid. You cannot provoke the residents in Kosovo for something they are rightfully defending and then go crying when one of the big bad tough Germans suffered a NON life threatening wound.

The media should just give no attention to Guido Westerwelle when he comes to Belgrade.

The Germans are highly aware of their past and no one (except of maybe less than one percent) would deny the Holocaust or the other horrors of WWII. It is still a daily topic in the news and schools
(Observer)

Germans are tought that Holocaust was their horrific crime against Jews not to be repeated, but they are not tought that their aggression against sovereign countries including Yugoslavia was also horrific crime.

I did not say that, Haris. But Serbs did not kill on the same scale as the Nazi's, Ustashe, and Albanians did during WWII, when millions were exterminated.

Sorry Lenny, if I hit a nerve, but the Croats have a legacy of genocide in the Balkans. Read some history about how Croatian Ustashe, and Albanian Skenderbegs were more than happy to do Hitler's extermination work at their concentration camps in the former Yugoslavia. It's all free on the internet. Just write in "Croatian War Crimes" in the Google search window, and Voila! You must know the old saying about throwing stones and living in glass houses?

Lenard

Keep taking the tablets and lay off the clown corneflakes and magic mushrooms.

He looks very angry I think you Serbs really pissed him off you should not of said all those mean things of the reformed Dutch and Dutchland no schnitzel for you.

People... Why do you always speak about the past (in some cases 70 years old past), if the article is about the future of Serbia? It is a fact that every country did some horrorful actions in the past. The way is to accept that, to figure out what happened, to say sorry, to change the system that those things NEVER happen again. This victim and shaming others mentality leads to nothing but the next war. Take Germany as an example: France was an arc enemy for centuries and it became a best friend for Germany with about 90% of French people saying that France has good or very good relations with Germany. The result is enormous prosperity and peace for 67 years by now. Free border trade and travel, huge amounts of student exchanges and so on. And it is the same with other neighbouring countries. The Germans are highly aware of their past and no one (except of maybe less than one percent) would deny the Holocaust or the other horrors of WWII. It is still a daily topic in the news and schools to make people aware that these structures do not come back and that people are aware of the dangers of populism and propaganda. It is obvious, that only democracy, education and an open discussion about the past without constantly blaming the others leads to the well-going of a society. Do you really think that other nations are angels (colonies, gulags, Napoleon, this Yugoslav island where they killed and imprisoned opponents, ....)? But those countries which are aware of their past, which discuss it and who do not deny it, wo changed themselves and made friends again with their neighbours are those which can feed their people and guarantee a certain standard of living and security. Of course it was not only some Serbs who did horrorful things during the Balkan Wars. Every side has its victims and those who committed these crimes. Usually everybody looses from a war. But only blaming the others does not lead you anywhere. The latter is addressed to everybody. Peace, friendship and prosperity to the Balkans! :)

@Dragan: I'm pretty sure you never watched this movie and you simply repeat some populistic articles from the Serbian media, right? Otherwise you would know, that it does not blame the Serbs, but war in general. It is a social study about the behaviour of people in times of war and how war occurs. And besides, it was no flop.
(Outsider, 23 February 2012 15:07)

Are you kiddin me? LOL That movie is pure amateurish garbage. Ms. Jolie is a complete airhead and should be acting in adult movies, she has no business behind the camera directing. For that you need a brain.
http://1389blog.com/2012/01/12/peter-brock-angelina-jolies-blood-and-honey-directorial-debut-a-flop/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+1389Blog+%281389+Blog%29
Peter Brock sums it up very well.
Cheers!!

Winsome your one sad person as if you Serbs haven't many skeletons in your closet. Always some Serbian BS for a idiotic criminal Greater Belgrade Serbia. What the heck is Serbophobia is it some kind of foam you Serbs like to wash your self's down with.

(metrod, 23 February 2012 20:51)

Metrod, you're a joke and so are your links. Draza Mihajlovic was awarded the Legion of Merit by the US of A, the highest award possible for non-US citizens.
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/ww2/Felman/snf-speech.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEa_Mihailovi%C4%87
http://www.teslasociety.com/500_2.htm

Your education, if you have any, obviously comes from albania or the fictitious 'Kosova', which explains your attempts to falsify and fabricate history. First educate yourself if you want to have a serious debate, otherwise don't waste my time.
Cheers!!

To windson...your comment has no sens at all like serbs did thathing in balkan
Get real.....
(Haris, 23 February 2012 12:22)

Haha poor guy

I did not say that, Haris. But Serbs did not kill on the same scale as the Nazi's, Ustashe, and Albanians did during WWII, when millions were exterminated.
(winston, 23 February 2012 12:54)

What about Serbias Chetniks (Serbian nationalists) pro-Nazi during World War II how do you deffend them or this is propaganda by Croats and Albanins :)

"p.s. yes the Nazis were guilty of horrendous crimes, but Germans that cafe after them, denounce those actions and admit them."

Nikolle

Since you and your albanian countrymen colaborated with the nazis I just wonder when albanians are going to appologize for your crimes against humanity? Do what your nazi friends in germany did. Appologize! I have yet to hear an albanian, croat or muslim appologize for siding with nazi Germany and the killing of 700.000 serbs during WW2.

To windson...your comment has no sens at all like serbs did thathing in balkan
Get real.....

What about the Chetniks, Bilbao? They were basically involved in a civil war with Tito's Parizans, and the Germans, during the WWII. If there was any involvement between certain Chetniks and the Germans, it was not of a homogeneous consensus, but rather "using the enemy", when the opportunity arose. Chetniks were loyalists to the Serbian Crown. You must know that. But enough of this blather, do Google searches and come to your own conclusions. But no one, is going to say bad about serbs, without looking at themselves, sorry.

p.s. yes the Nazis were guilty of horrendous crimes, but Germans that cafe after them, denounce those actions and admit them.
(Nikolle, 23 February 2012 13:09)

Germans feel guilty about their crimes against Jews, not about anything else.

What about the Chetniks, Bilbao? They were basically involved in a civil war with Tito's Parizans, and the Germans, during the WWII. If there was any involvement between certain Chetniks and the Germans, it was not of a homogeneous consensus, but rather "using the enemy", when the opportunity arose. Chetniks were loyalists to the Serbian Crown. You must know that. But enough of this blather, do Google searches and come to your own conclusions. But no one, is going to say bad about serbs, without looking at themselves, sorry.
(winston, 23 February 2012 13:56)

Winston as well for Albanins they liberated them selves and fought with Partizans against Nazis, However it is true that a small portion had aligance to Germans as did French as did portion of Hungarians, etc.

Why I brought that to your attention is that you only see the bad in other nationalities, go see how many Jews were saved by Albanins there is a book showing their work. Many times I see in this website a one stroke brush for all nation.

And as far as I know Tito was Croatian so I am sure many Croats did fight against Nazis.
Lets try to mend bridges as focusing in 1945 will hurt us to work together in 2045, I hope Serbia Joins EU where people start working together like Germans and French not against each other as Nationalisam is only good when you are poor unless you show pride in sports and as a Serb you should have many happy joyful moments as you have great athleats.But as a country in Europ you have to start being a European of 2000s and lets leave last century behind with all the wars and all the uprooting it brought.

When a person points a finger there are 3 pointing on his direction.

The Germans (i.e. their past, current and future) governments cannot be trusted. OTOH they want to sell their products in the Balkans and german business leaders have recently said that they also want to double their business in Serbia, OTOH, Westerwelle (a gay, a grey, hairier, stridently vocal and german version of the evil gunslinging robot of Westworld played by the marvellous Yul Brynner) comes to Belgrade to make threats. Blocking Serbia will be bad business for german companies who are lobbying very hard behind the scenes for Candidate Status. Even Gorenje wants to build a second factory in Serbia (oh, those slovenes!).

Westerwelle didn't bring his panzer, but a mercedes is a modern day equivalent.

Read the book "The forgotten 500", Metrod, if you want to see Chetnik alliances with America during WWII. Please tell me what the Kosovo Albanians were doing during the same time. Does the Skanderbeg Albanian Nazi Division have any meaning to you?

In light of Tadic's comments yesterday where he accepted reality, which is Serbia will not get in, it seemed politically wise for the Germans to do something beyond the usual of sending other EU lackeys forward to say, "we think Serbia deserves this". The only power that Germany really has in Serbia is the EU carrot. But they have unlimited power over all other EU member. Now that it's starting to sink into Serbs in general that this entire process has been a "scam", Germany's boy Tadic was likely not to be around for long... unless Germany can stop the election like they did to the Greeks. Tadic getting thrown out on his EU pipe-dream ear could end up causing Germany many headaches. They needed to do something. Of course nothing has changed, Serbia won't get in. I noticed Romania is now saying they will block Serbia's bid. The important thing is for Serbia to accept that one way or another there's no EU in your future and Germany will always apply pressure on someone to keep you out. And don't be delusional on this score. If Germany wanted you in, you'd be in. Isn't it possible that you could rebuild your own country with your own resources? If Serbia doesn't do this, then you'll live in this limbo of waiting on the EU fantasy land to fall from the sky. That's not much of a life.

@Dragan: I'm pretty sure you never watched this movie and you simply repeat some populistic articles from the Serbian media, right? Otherwise you would know, that it does not blame the Serbs, but war in general. It is a social study about the behaviour of people in times of war and how war occurs. And besides, it was no flop.
Simply assume that you have families on all sides, no one better than the other, everybody wants to feed their children, offer them good education and safety. War is simply a tool by a little elite to maximize their power and wealth. Hatred and propaganda (hurt "pride") are their tools and you just became a part of it. Like the little farmers in a chess game.

Nikolle

Since you and your albanian countrymen colaborated with the nazis I just wonder when albanians are going to appologize for your crimes against humanity? Do what your nazi friends in germany did. Appologize! I have yet to hear an albanian, croat or muslim appologize for siding with nazi Germany and the killing of 700.000 serbs during WW2.
(MikeC, 23 February 2012 16:00)


Nikolle, u must apologise to serbs, especially to mikeC because he said that you collaborated with the nazis.

Hey Serbs, since you hate Germany so much, why are there currently 500,000 Serbs living in Germany? Why not go to Russia for jobs? I guess Nazi, WWII, Ustashe, are allll forgotten when given the chance to live in a first world country! So much hatred for Germany, yet sooo many Serbs itching to live there! Ha!

Dragan,
You're getting your review from 1389 blog?
That's a very unbiased and credible source, don't you think/

Speaking of Nazi collaborators, here evidence from your brethren showing that Draza Mihajlovic collaborated with Nazis
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=draza+mihajlovic+picture+with+nazis&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1010&bih=636&tbm=isch&tbnid=pL4QwRrbajDFlM:&imgrefurl=http://espressostalinist.wordpress.com/genocide/chetniks-collaboration-genocide/&docid=SwB1S6xsnfcO0M&imgurl=http://espressostalinist.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/serbian-gen-draza-mihailovic-collaborated-with-nazi-germans-fascists.png&w=588&h=678&ei=H5dGT4fxKKLy0gHu7N24Dg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=437&vpy=261&dur=5906&hovh=241&hovw=209&tx=91&ty=191&sig=109145149100767296317&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=120&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0

And, here's some photos of other Chetnik heroes:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=draza+mihajlovic+picture+with+nazis&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1010&bih=636&tbm=isch&tbnid=gKnHv0Q84i7gBM:&imgrefurl=http://bosniakandjewishfriendship.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/serbian-involvement-in-the-genocide-of-jewish-people/&docid=qn6c4aIi5zRyiM&imgurl=http://bosniakandjewishfriendship.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/serbian-draza-mihajlovic-nazi-fascist-collaborator-world-war-ii-holocaust.jpg%253Fw%253D614&w=400&h=358&ei=H5dGT4fxKKLy0gHu7N24Dg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=203&sig=109145149100767296317&page=1&tbnh=130&tbnw=160&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=61&ty=52

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=draza+mihajlovic+picture+with+nazis&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1010&bih=636&tbm=isch&tbnid=31xSYPVa7haXcM:&imgrefurl=http://mprofaca.cro.net/draza_mihailovic.html&docid=uGzqsqvQG0vjRM&imgurl=http://mprofaca.cro.net/nazichetniks.gif&w=284&h=362&ei=H5dGT4fxKKLy0gHu7N24Dg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=125&sig=109145149100767296317&page=1&tbnh=142&tbnw=115&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0&tx=59&ty=74

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=draza+mihajlovic+picture+with+nazis&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1010&bih=636&tbm=isch&tbnid=UUEJ4iqfz9684M:&imgrefurl=http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/2007/12/serbian-photo-propaganda-fascistic.html&docid=PRFancsieBPVvM&imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_s6zY8-yAuYc/R1eIgLNR6nI/AAAAAAAAAn8/FUY2oOpJxdw/s400/draza%252Bmihajlovic%252Badolf%252Bhitler%252Bmeating.jpg&w=300&h=208&ei=H5dGT4fxKKLy0gHu7N24Dg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=125&sig=109145149100767296317&page=2&tbnh=142&tbnw=195&start=15&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:15&tx=94&ty=86

Most likely, they're Thaqi's men dressed as Chetnicks and photoshoped later. Western conspiracy to bring down freedom loving chetnicks.

to aaayyy: Not true, Germans are not only aware of the crimes the Nazis did against the Jewish people. It is only the biggest group of victims, so it is most discussed. Crimes against other groups such as Sinti&Roma, political opponents, homosexuals, Polish, whoever have their place in the public debate as well.
Crimes against Yugoslavia in which times? You have to differentiate a bit. But do not forget while you talk about Yugoslavia after WWII, that it was not the huge paradise as some people try to make it. There must have been a reason, that so many people left the country (seven million Serbs are spread around the world – most left in the 60s/70s/80s). It was not Germany which destroyed Yugoslavia, it was the nationalism in Yugoslavia - on all sides. And the atmosphere of nationalism could only spread so fast, because people were not able to democratically participate in the Yugoslavian state. Yugoslavia was still a dictatorship. You cannot force people to live together forever if they don't want to and especially if they don't have the right of democratic participation.

"Hey Serbs, since you hate Germany so much, why are there currently 500,000 Serbs living in Germany?"

Anka

Hey Anka, since you albanians hate Serbia so much why is there over 2 million albanians living in Serbia? Why do albanians from Albania keep coming to Serbia? Move back to Albania if you want jobs and education.

Germany is playing games. If they thought it would be better to keep Serbia out of the EU they certainly would. They want it in for financial reasons. They think it is making Serbians perspire and they enjoy that. If they do not go with the EU they could go with Russia and maybe be better off.
______________
How? The Russian economy is about the size of Spain's, slightly bigger than the Dutch, while 3/4 of the GDP derive from oil exports. The GDP per capita is about the same as in Serbia, while the country is highly corrupt and faces massive political tensions right now and inequality is at a striking level and the gap between the rich and the poor is increasing. How should Serbia be better of with Russia? Do you think Serbia, as an island in the EU will prosper? The decision between East and West is over, thanks to the end of the cold war and globalisation.
____________

As far as giving up Kosovo? Would Germany ever give up a part of their country?
___________
Germany gave up parts of its country twice. Take a look at a map pre-WWI and pre-WWII.
___________
Serbs did not start the Yugo war, outsiders did, Serbs wanted Yugo held together.
___________

Indeed, the Serbs wanted to hold Yugo together, but they were dominating the other countries and they did not want to live in a state with Serbia. Yugo's economy was going bad in the 80's and Croatia and Slovenia did not want to continue sending money to Belgrade and the other (poorer) states.
_____________

Who started it? Outsiders and Germany persuaded Croatia to go independent. The people of Yugo were victims of these outsiders.
(Kathryn, 24 February 2012 18:50)
_____________
Victims, victims, victims.... I really can't hear it anymore. Read a Croatian history book or some international books about the break up of Yugoslavia and the already existing independence movements in the 70's. Yugo was still a dictatorship and every movement that was not in line with the official agenda was shut down with force. One of the reasons why so many left Yugo. Try to get a more objective view on the topic and do not romantizise things which you only know from Serbian history books. History is always a matter of perspective and if you check Serbian history books against Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian other books, you will see how different people can experience the world.

@Dragan: I'm pretty sure you never watched this movie and you simply repeat some populistic articles from the Serbian media, right? Otherwise you would know, that it does not blame the Serbs, but war in general. It is a social study about the behaviour of people in times of war and how war occurs. And besides, it was no flop.
(Outsider, 23 February 2012 15:07)
==========================

If you call this a success, then it was a success.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1714209/

"But it seems Germans are not aware that attacks/invading of sovereign countries were/are also horrific crimes.
(aaayyy, 24 February 2012 09:53) "

First of all, if you point towards the happenings of 1999: It was and is highly discussed in Germany if these actions were justified. Originally most German people were against it. There is a famous saying in Germany which can be translated as: "Never war again!". To change the mood of the people, the foreign minister said at this time: "Yes, we said "Never war again!" but we also said "never Holocaust again!".
Leaving aside what I personally think, I would like to give you the thoughts of the other side: Is a country that tries to extinct some groups in its society still sovereign? Isn't the concept of "sovereignty" connected to "responsibility for the well-being of the people in a country"?
Go back more than 70 years in history and think about Germany: What if other countries would have intervened in time and stopped the Nazis? Would you still say: This is a sovereign state, we cannot do anything. Let them kill millions of people, it's on their soil? Or think about the Tutsi and Hutu?
A state is always only a constructed thing to serve the people and to ensure a better living.
Of course, there is a huge dilemma: When did a state reached the point where it looses its sovereignty? When is the point reached to say "enough is enough"?

Hey Serbs, since you hate Germany so much, why are there currently 500,000 Serbs living in Germany? Why not go to Russia for jobs? I guess Nazi, WWII, Ustashe, are allll forgotten when given the chance to live in a first world country! So much hatred for Germany, yet sooo many Serbs itching to live there! Ha!
(Anka, 23 February 2012 19:51)
======================

Hey Albanians, if you hate Serbia so much where are there so many of you living in Serbia then? Why don't you all pack up and leave and go to Albania seeing how you love it so much? Why did so many of you jump the border and enter Kosovo?

Germany can say whatever it wants but I don't buy any of it. It seems odd that now we have Romania wanting to block Serbia. Could it be that Germany wants to have it's hands clean and let Romania do it's dirty work?

On the other hand it might even be Russia's influence. We really don't have any information of any value.

"Dragan, You're getting your review from 1389 blog?
That's a very unbiased and credible source, don't you think?"
(metrod, 23 February 2012 20:51)

1389 blog? Well, makes sense, and it explains a lot of his postings, opinions, view of the world and attitude :)

"Germany can say whatever it wants but I don't buy any of it. It seems odd that now we have Romania wanting to block Serbia. Could it be that Germany wants to have it's hands clean and let Romania do it's dirty work? On the other hand it might even be Russia's influence. We really don't have any information of any value."
(Peggy, 24 February 2012 07:41)

Oh, new conspiracy theories. Haven't the exact reasons for a possible Romanian vetoes been given? Maybe you should read the article about it here on B92 a bit more thoroughly.

"Dragan, You're getting your review from 1389 blog?
That's a very unbiased and credible source, don't you think?"
(metrod, 23 February 2012 20:51)

1389 blog? Well, makes sense, and it explains a lot of his postings, opinions, view of the world and attitude :)
(Comm. Parrisson, 24 February 2012 09:09)

Attacking the medium and not the actual content of the post (which provided links to the quotes by various critics) is about as dishonest as you can get. So, what was the point of your comment? Vanity?

Attacking the medium and not the actual content of the post (which provided links to the quotes by various critics) is about as dishonest as you can get. So, what was the point of your comment? Vanity?
(Dumb & Dumber, 24 February 2012 16:50)

Thank you for saving me the effort to respond to these simpletons. I think the point of his comment is to be anti-Serbian, and nothing else. They don't let the facts get in the way of their bias.

Germany is playing games. If they thought it would be better to keep Serbia out of the EU they certainly would. They want it in for financial reasons. They think it is making Serbians perspire and they enjoy that. If they do not go with the EU they could go with Russia and maybe be better off. As far as giving up Kosovo? Would Germany ever give up a part of their country?Serbs did not start the Yugo war, outsiders did, Serbs wanted Yugo held together. Who started it? Outsiders and Germany persuaded Croatia to go independent. The people of Yugo were victims of these outsiders.

"Would Germany ever give up a part of their country?"
Simply check some old maps from 1920 and some from nowadays, and your question will be answered, immediately.

"Serbs did not start the Yugo war, outsiders did, Serbs wanted Yugo held together. Who started it? Outsiders and Germany persuaded Croatia to go independent"
(Kathryn, 24 February 2012 18:50)

You contradict yourself. Serbs wanted to keep Yugo together, but some other people in YU didn't want that. Do you think keeping a country together with violence against (a part of) the population is something positive? If there would have been smarter politicians in YU than Tudjman, Milosevic and similar-minded persons, YU would have gone the way of Czechoslovakia or the former Soviet Union, i.e. split (more or less) peacefully.

Do you think keeping a country together with violence against (a part of) the population is something positive?
(Comm. Parrisson)

It can be applied to Croatia, Bosnia, and if somebody believe Kosovo is a state, to "Kosovo".

Metrod, you're a joke and so are your links. Draza Mihajlovic was awarded the Legion of Merit by the US of A, the highest award possible for non-US citizens.
[link]
[link]
[link]

Your education, if you have any, obviously comes from albania or the fictitious 'Kosova', which explains your attempts to falsify and fabricate history. First educate yourself if you want to have a serious debate, otherwise don't waste my time.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 23 February 2012 21:28)

So being a friend of America is good when it suits Serbs right but America being Friend of Kosovo is horrible hahaha funny Dragan. How many Nazis lived in USA after WWII many please man do not hide behind us skirt a portion of Serbias population did support Nazis you dont ike it as it does not suit your poor me personality syndrom your nation has taken.

Hey Serbs, since you hate Germany so much, why are there currently 500,000 Serbs living in Germany? Why not go to Russia for jobs?
(Anka, 23 February 2012 19:51)

Don't be surprised, dear! Serbs are smart people and are able to distinguish between words and actions. Don't be confused by some people in these forums and those 22k naives who applied for Russian passports who are fed with words :)

Read the book "The forgotten 500", Metrod, if you want to see Chetnik alliances with America during WWII. Please tell me what the Kosovo Albanians were doing during the same time. Does the Skanderbeg Albanian Nazi Division have any meaning to you?
(winston, 23 February 2012 22:46
_______________

Its interesting how serbs are generaly farmiliar with the nazi collaborator elements of Albania, and not with the Albanian partizans who fought against fascists and liberated Albania without foerign help.

Albanian partizans also fought to liberate jugoslavia but apparently some serbs conviently forget/ dont know a part of this Ballkan history.(thanks to the propaganda machine)

During WW2 the Jewish population were being prosecuted all over Europe. After WW2 Albania was the only state in Europe to have more Jews than pre WW2.
The general population refused to hand over the Jewish population to the nazis while generally other Europeans did.

Thats what the majority non-nazi collaborating Albanians were doing in WW2 just so you know Winston, and some others who to paint all Albanians as nazi collaborators.

to aaayyy: Not true, Germans are not only aware of the crimes the Nazis did against the Jewish people. It is only the biggest group of victims, so it is most discussed. Crimes against other groups such as Sinti&Roma, political opponents, homosexuals, Polish, whoever have their place in the public debate as well.
(Observer)

But it seems Germans are not aware that attacks/invading of sovereign countries were/are also horrific crimes.

"Germany can say whatever it wants but I don't buy any of it. It seems odd that now we have Romania wanting to block Serbia. Could it be that Germany wants to have it's hands clean and let Romania do it's dirty work? On the other hand it might even be Russia's influence. We really don't have any information of any value."
(Peggy, 24 February 2012 07:41)

Oh, new conspiracy theories. Haven't the exact reasons for a possible Romanian vetoes been given? Maybe you should read the article about it here on B92 a bit more thoroughly.
(Comm. Parrisson, 24 February 2012 12:36)

To Peggy - How could it be Russian influence? Do you think that Russia doesn't want Serbia to become EU member and influences Romania to rise Vlah question? Why would Romania listen to Russia? We can understand why Romania would listen to Germany - they are their EU bosses, but why to Russia?

To Comm. Parrisson - why would this question be risen quite of a sudden right before decision on Serbia candidate status?

But it seems Germans are not aware that attacks/invading of sovereign countries were/are also horrific crimes.
(aaayyy, 24 February 2012 09:53)

Participating in an international intervention in a country where a 'president' is running amok and slaughtering his own people is not such horrific.

"But it seems Germans are not aware that attacks/invading of sovereign countries were/are also horrific crimes.
(aaayyy, 24 February 2012 09:53) "

First of all, if you point towards the happenings of 1999: It was and is highly discussed in Germany if these actions were justified. Originally most German people were against it. There is a famous saying in Germany which can be translated as: "Never war again!". To change the mood of the people, the foreign minister said at this time: "Yes, we said "Never war again!" but we also said "never Holocaust again!".
Leaving aside what I personally think, I would like to give you the thoughts of the other side: Is a country that tries to extinct some groups in its society still sovereign? Isn't the concept of "sovereignty" connected to "responsibility for the well-being of the people in a country"?
Go back more than 70 years in history and think about Germany: What if other countries would have intervened in time and stopped the Nazis? Would you still say: This is a sovereign state, we cannot do anything. Let them kill millions of people, it's on their soil? Or think about the Tutsi and Hutu?
A state is always only a constructed thing to serve the people and to ensure a better living.
Of course, there is a huge dilemma: When did a state reached the point where it looses its sovereignty? When is the point reached to say "enough is enough"?
(Observer, 24 February 2012 13:34)

I've been reading about thoughts of the other side for many years. You try to portray Milosevic as a dictator, who got mad and started killing his own citizens, but actually it wasn't like that. Actually it was old ethnic conflict coming to war over disputed territory. Both sides should have been pressed to start real negotiation or at least to apply better methods of war. For example during the war Serbs needed modern technology to fight against guerilla.

Indeed, the Serbs wanted to hold Yugo together, but they were dominating the other countries and they did not want to live in a state with Serbia. Yugo's economy was going bad in the 80's and Croatia and Slovenia did not want to continue sending money to Belgrade and the other (poorer) states.
=========================

Let's say that is true then answer me this question. What was their reason for wanting an independent Croatian state during WW2? Did Belgrade try to rip them off then too?
Croatians have always hated Serbs and the only reason they joined Yugoslavia was because they knew who liberated them from occupiers. They joined freely, even welcomed Serbs with flowers. Then they started dreaming of breaking away and their Ustashi started exterminating the Serbs.
Now you tell me it was always all Serbs' fault? Take the blinkers off.

Do you think keeping a country together with violence against (a part of) the population is something positive? If there would have been smarter politicians in YU than Tudjman, Milosevic and similar-minded persons, YU would have gone the way of Czechoslovakia or the former Soviet Union, i.e. split (more or less) peacefully.
(Comm. Parrisson, 24 February 2012 20:37)
=================

Do as I say and not as I do. If you really believe what you have just said don't hold onto the north so tightly. Allow all Serbian enclaves to leave and join their brothers.
Doesn't work in Kosovo because it's a "unique case"?

dori tirana, All the link proves is that Serbs have been getting systematically cleansed from Kosovo for a very long time.

Seeing how once upon a time there were more Serbs than Albanians how do you figure that Serbs have come from Belgrade while Albanians were there and all of a sudden all that started changing? Where did the extra Albanians come from and where did the Serbs go?

@ MikeC I friendly suggest not to use more this big colonials lies, because you damage Serb reputation. But if you want to joke let’s joke. Here is my link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kosovo#20th_century
Just click it and search the word colon. I’m waiting your link please.
At the end of our joke you will understand that Serbs from Belgrade has come to Kosova, Albanian from Kosovo has come to Albania, and no one Albanian from Albania has gone to Kosovo, at least from 1912.

"Croatians have always hated Serbs and the only reason they joined Yugoslavia was because they knew who liberated them from occupiers. They joined freely, even welcomed Serbs with flowers. Then they started dreaming of breaking away and their Ustashi started exterminating the Serbs.
Now you tell me it was always all Serbs' fault? Take the blinkers off." (Peggy)
___________

I did not say that it was always all Serbs' fault. I said nationalism on all sides was the reason for the break up of Yugoslavia. As you say: "Croatians have always hated Serbs" - I would be careful with generalisations, I'm pretty sure not "all the Croatians" hated Serbs. But apart from that, you answer your questions yourself about the break up of Yugoslavia. Nationalism (and I think patriotism is nationalism as well) involves always feelings that you are better than others. Not a good condition to build a state upon.
You don't have to draw new borders, you can have a multi ethnic state with democratic rights, proper civil participation and minority rights. As long as no one thinks they have disadvantages because of their identity and if they are not hunted by the majority, you can easily build a state with them. But that is not given in some reasons. Take Kosovo. If they would be properly integrated, you would have almost a quarter of Albanians sitting in the parliament in Belgrade...

Seeing how once upon a time there were more Serbs than Albanians how do you figure that Serbs have come from Belgrade while Albanians were there and all of a sudden all that started changing? Where did the extra Albanians come from and where did the Serbs go?
(Peggy, 25 February 2012 01:20)


Very fascinating questions
I have a question of my own. Where did the serbs come from? Where are the rest of Illyrian clans besides the Albani and Dradani?

Response is not necessary i've already made my point.

I hope Germany will make it clearer to Serbia that the EU doesn't want another frozen conflict in its ranks ie Cyprus, Macedonia name issue with Greece.

If Serbia really want to join EU at some points it MUST recognise Kosovo independence first. I can not see any other way.

The words "compromise", "red lines", "Serbian constitution" "asymetric representation" are full of nonsenses when it comes to Kosovo issue.

Someone must be INSANE even to think the Serbian sovereignity and territorial integrity over Kosovo.

Winsome your one sad person as if you Serbs haven't many skeletons in your closet. Always some Serbian BS for a idiotic criminal Greater Belgrade Serbia. What the heck is Serbophobia is it some kind of foam you Serbs like to wash your self's down with.

He looks very angry I think you Serbs really pissed him off you should not of said all those mean things of the reformed Dutch and Dutchland no schnitzel for you.

To windson...your comment has no sens at all like serbs did thathing in balkan
Get real.....

I did not say that, Haris. But Serbs did not kill on the same scale as the Nazi's, Ustashe, and Albanians did during WWII, when millions were exterminated.

I did not say that, Haris. But Serbs did not kill on the same scale as the Nazi's, Ustashe, and Albanians did during WWII, when millions were exterminated.
(winston, 23 February 2012 12:54)

What about Serbias Chetniks (Serbian nationalists) pro-Nazi during World War II how do you deffend them or this is propaganda by Croats and Albanins :)

I hope you are right, Lenard. I have some things I could say to him, regarding the crimes his forefathers, and yours from the Ustashe, did against the civilian population in the Balkans. Now these offspring of the Third Reich come to the Balkans again to conquer and rule. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same old thing. Try a new hobby, like pulling wings off of insects.

Sorry Lenny, if I hit a nerve, but the Croats have a legacy of genocide in the Balkans. Read some history about how Croatian Ustashe, and Albanian Skenderbegs were more than happy to do Hitler's extermination work at their concentration camps in the former Yugoslavia. It's all free on the internet. Just write in "Croatian War Crimes" in the Google search window, and Voila! You must know the old saying about throwing stones and living in glass houses?

Guido, who attended Angelina Jolie's garbage propoganda anti-Serb movie (which is a complete flop - there is karma) with his husband, has pumped himself up to spit on Serbia again. Go home Guido, you are not welcome on Serbian soil. I suggest you go to Croatia, muslim Bosnia, or albania, where they will kiss your feet and shine your shoes. Serbia is not part of your Fourth Reich, and it never will be.
Cheers!!

@ winston,

That is no new hobby. In fact, that hobby was the catalyst for causing terror across the Balkans. It all started when a group of Germans & Austrians were playing in the field and caught some insects. Instead of admiring the very beauty of nature, they started to pull the wings one by one until the insect died a slow & painful death.

@ Guido Westerwelle,
Please don't visit Serbia. Can't you send a telegram or something? At least then we wouldn't have to give you our hospitality and allow your dirty feet into our country.

So.. the Germans are taking the reigns of the EU in the case of Serbia's EU candidacy. I think it's time that Germany stop acting like the head of the EU.

Merkel denied Serbia candidate status because a German soldier was shot in Kosovo. Well we are not stupid. You cannot provoke the residents in Kosovo for something they are rightfully defending and then go crying when one of the big bad tough Germans suffered a NON life threatening wound.

The media should just give no attention to Guido Westerwelle when he comes to Belgrade.

"If Serbia really want to join EU at some points it MUST recognise Kosovo independence first. I can not see any other way" . . . EA with his daily cut and paste spam. You too, EA, don't you ever get tired of the same old crap? You know that Serbia will not recognize an independent narco-state, operated by ex-KLA organ-harvestors, on its own territory, not in your lifetime any way, so why waste bandwidth on a daily basis? Read the attached link, and be honest, does this hell hole deserve independence? http://www.vesti-online.com/Vesti/Srbija/204331/Evropol-Kosovo-je-crna-rupa-Evrope
And this is the guy at helm of the Newborn sewer http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2011&mm=10&dd=21&nav_id=76970

Oh dear winston, when are you going to get rid of this victim mentality? Out of curiosity, does the suffering of Serbs in say WW2 justify the massacres that were done by Serbs in the wars of Yugoslavia? I'm now thinking of Srebrenica, Croatia, Kosova? Oh and kudos for somehow believing that Albanians killed millions in the 1940's. I'd love to read the books you've been reading.

p.s. yes the Nazis were guilty of horrendous crimes, but Germans that cafe after them, denounce those actions and admit them. Can't say the same for most Serbs posters here, after all, according to most, Srebrenica was not a genocide

"p.s. yes the Nazis were guilty of horrendous crimes, but Germans that cafe after them, denounce those actions and admit them."

Nikolle

Since you and your albanian countrymen colaborated with the nazis I just wonder when albanians are going to appologize for your crimes against humanity? Do what your nazi friends in germany did. Appologize! I have yet to hear an albanian, croat or muslim appologize for siding with nazi Germany and the killing of 700.000 serbs during WW2.

Hey Serbs, since you hate Germany so much, why are there currently 500,000 Serbs living in Germany? Why not go to Russia for jobs? I guess Nazi, WWII, Ustashe, are allll forgotten when given the chance to live in a first world country! So much hatred for Germany, yet sooo many Serbs itching to live there! Ha!

Dragan,
You're getting your review from 1389 blog?
That's a very unbiased and credible source, don't you think/

Speaking of Nazi collaborators, here evidence from your brethren showing that Draza Mihajlovic collaborated with Nazis
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=draza+mihajlovic+picture+with+nazis&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1010&bih=636&tbm=isch&tbnid=pL4QwRrbajDFlM:&imgrefurl=http://espressostalinist.wordpress.com/genocide/chetniks-collaboration-genocide/&docid=SwB1S6xsnfcO0M&imgurl=http://espressostalinist.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/serbian-gen-draza-mihailovic-collaborated-with-nazi-germans-fascists.png&w=588&h=678&ei=H5dGT4fxKKLy0gHu7N24Dg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=437&vpy=261&dur=5906&hovh=241&hovw=209&tx=91&ty=191&sig=109145149100767296317&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=120&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0

And, here's some photos of other Chetnik heroes:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=draza+mihajlovic+picture+with+nazis&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1010&bih=636&tbm=isch&tbnid=gKnHv0Q84i7gBM:&imgrefurl=http://bosniakandjewishfriendship.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/serbian-involvement-in-the-genocide-of-jewish-people/&docid=qn6c4aIi5zRyiM&imgurl=http://bosniakandjewishfriendship.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/serbian-draza-mihajlovic-nazi-fascist-collaborator-world-war-ii-holocaust.jpg%253Fw%253D614&w=400&h=358&ei=H5dGT4fxKKLy0gHu7N24Dg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=203&sig=109145149100767296317&page=1&tbnh=130&tbnw=160&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=61&ty=52

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=draza+mihajlovic+picture+with+nazis&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1010&bih=636&tbm=isch&tbnid=31xSYPVa7haXcM:&imgrefurl=http://mprofaca.cro.net/draza_mihailovic.html&docid=uGzqsqvQG0vjRM&imgurl=http://mprofaca.cro.net/nazichetniks.gif&w=284&h=362&ei=H5dGT4fxKKLy0gHu7N24Dg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=125&sig=109145149100767296317&page=1&tbnh=142&tbnw=115&start=0&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0&tx=59&ty=74

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=draza+mihajlovic+picture+with+nazis&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1010&bih=636&tbm=isch&tbnid=UUEJ4iqfz9684M:&imgrefurl=http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/2007/12/serbian-photo-propaganda-fascistic.html&docid=PRFancsieBPVvM&imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_s6zY8-yAuYc/R1eIgLNR6nI/AAAAAAAAAn8/FUY2oOpJxdw/s400/draza%252Bmihajlovic%252Badolf%252Bhitler%252Bmeating.jpg&w=300&h=208&ei=H5dGT4fxKKLy0gHu7N24Dg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=125&sig=109145149100767296317&page=2&tbnh=142&tbnw=195&start=15&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:15&tx=94&ty=86

Most likely, they're Thaqi's men dressed as Chetnicks and photoshoped later. Western conspiracy to bring down freedom loving chetnicks.

What about the Chetniks, Bilbao? They were basically involved in a civil war with Tito's Parizans, and the Germans, during the WWII. If there was any involvement between certain Chetniks and the Germans, it was not of a homogeneous consensus, but rather "using the enemy", when the opportunity arose. Chetniks were loyalists to the Serbian Crown. You must know that. But enough of this blather, do Google searches and come to your own conclusions. But no one, is going to say bad about serbs, without looking at themselves, sorry.

Nikolle

Since you and your albanian countrymen colaborated with the nazis I just wonder when albanians are going to appologize for your crimes against humanity? Do what your nazi friends in germany did. Appologize! I have yet to hear an albanian, croat or muslim appologize for siding with nazi Germany and the killing of 700.000 serbs during WW2.
(MikeC, 23 February 2012 16:00)


Nikolle, u must apologise to serbs, especially to mikeC because he said that you collaborated with the nazis.

To windson...your comment has no sens at all like serbs did thathing in balkan
Get real.....
(Haris, 23 February 2012 12:22)

Haha poor guy

The Germans are highly aware of their past and no one (except of maybe less than one percent) would deny the Holocaust or the other horrors of WWII. It is still a daily topic in the news and schools
(Observer)

Germans are tought that Holocaust was their horrific crime against Jews not to be repeated, but they are not tought that their aggression against sovereign countries including Yugoslavia was also horrific crime.

@Dragan: I'm pretty sure you never watched this movie and you simply repeat some populistic articles from the Serbian media, right? Otherwise you would know, that it does not blame the Serbs, but war in general. It is a social study about the behaviour of people in times of war and how war occurs. And besides, it was no flop.
(Outsider, 23 February 2012 15:07)

Are you kiddin me? LOL That movie is pure amateurish garbage. Ms. Jolie is a complete airhead and should be acting in adult movies, she has no business behind the camera directing. For that you need a brain.
http://1389blog.com/2012/01/12/peter-brock-angelina-jolies-blood-and-honey-directorial-debut-a-flop/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+1389Blog+%281389+Blog%29
Peter Brock sums it up very well.
Cheers!!

p.s. yes the Nazis were guilty of horrendous crimes, but Germans that cafe after them, denounce those actions and admit them.
(Nikolle, 23 February 2012 13:09)

Germans feel guilty about their crimes against Jews, not about anything else.

@Dragan: I'm pretty sure you never watched this movie and you simply repeat some populistic articles from the Serbian media, right? Otherwise you would know, that it does not blame the Serbs, but war in general. It is a social study about the behaviour of people in times of war and how war occurs. And besides, it was no flop.
Simply assume that you have families on all sides, no one better than the other, everybody wants to feed their children, offer them good education and safety. War is simply a tool by a little elite to maximize their power and wealth. Hatred and propaganda (hurt "pride") are their tools and you just became a part of it. Like the little farmers in a chess game.

What about the Chetniks, Bilbao? They were basically involved in a civil war with Tito's Parizans, and the Germans, during the WWII. If there was any involvement between certain Chetniks and the Germans, it was not of a homogeneous consensus, but rather "using the enemy", when the opportunity arose. Chetniks were loyalists to the Serbian Crown. You must know that. But enough of this blather, do Google searches and come to your own conclusions. But no one, is going to say bad about serbs, without looking at themselves, sorry.
(winston, 23 February 2012 13:56)

Winston as well for Albanins they liberated them selves and fought with Partizans against Nazis, However it is true that a small portion had aligance to Germans as did French as did portion of Hungarians, etc.

Why I brought that to your attention is that you only see the bad in other nationalities, go see how many Jews were saved by Albanins there is a book showing their work. Many times I see in this website a one stroke brush for all nation.

And as far as I know Tito was Croatian so I am sure many Croats did fight against Nazis.
Lets try to mend bridges as focusing in 1945 will hurt us to work together in 2045, I hope Serbia Joins EU where people start working together like Germans and French not against each other as Nationalisam is only good when you are poor unless you show pride in sports and as a Serb you should have many happy joyful moments as you have great athleats.But as a country in Europ you have to start being a European of 2000s and lets leave last century behind with all the wars and all the uprooting it brought.

When a person points a finger there are 3 pointing on his direction.

The Germans (i.e. their past, current and future) governments cannot be trusted. OTOH they want to sell their products in the Balkans and german business leaders have recently said that they also want to double their business in Serbia, OTOH, Westerwelle (a gay, a grey, hairier, stridently vocal and german version of the evil gunslinging robot of Westworld played by the marvellous Yul Brynner) comes to Belgrade to make threats. Blocking Serbia will be bad business for german companies who are lobbying very hard behind the scenes for Candidate Status. Even Gorenje wants to build a second factory in Serbia (oh, those slovenes!).

Westerwelle didn't bring his panzer, but a mercedes is a modern day equivalent.

to aaayyy: Not true, Germans are not only aware of the crimes the Nazis did against the Jewish people. It is only the biggest group of victims, so it is most discussed. Crimes against other groups such as Sinti&Roma, political opponents, homosexuals, Polish, whoever have their place in the public debate as well.
Crimes against Yugoslavia in which times? You have to differentiate a bit. But do not forget while you talk about Yugoslavia after WWII, that it was not the huge paradise as some people try to make it. There must have been a reason, that so many people left the country (seven million Serbs are spread around the world – most left in the 60s/70s/80s). It was not Germany which destroyed Yugoslavia, it was the nationalism in Yugoslavia - on all sides. And the atmosphere of nationalism could only spread so fast, because people were not able to democratically participate in the Yugoslavian state. Yugoslavia was still a dictatorship. You cannot force people to live together forever if they don't want to and especially if they don't have the right of democratic participation.

Lenard

Keep taking the tablets and lay off the clown corneflakes and magic mushrooms.

People... Why do you always speak about the past (in some cases 70 years old past), if the article is about the future of Serbia? It is a fact that every country did some horrorful actions in the past. The way is to accept that, to figure out what happened, to say sorry, to change the system that those things NEVER happen again. This victim and shaming others mentality leads to nothing but the next war. Take Germany as an example: France was an arc enemy for centuries and it became a best friend for Germany with about 90% of French people saying that France has good or very good relations with Germany. The result is enormous prosperity and peace for 67 years by now. Free border trade and travel, huge amounts of student exchanges and so on. And it is the same with other neighbouring countries. The Germans are highly aware of their past and no one (except of maybe less than one percent) would deny the Holocaust or the other horrors of WWII. It is still a daily topic in the news and schools to make people aware that these structures do not come back and that people are aware of the dangers of populism and propaganda. It is obvious, that only democracy, education and an open discussion about the past without constantly blaming the others leads to the well-going of a society. Do you really think that other nations are angels (colonies, gulags, Napoleon, this Yugoslav island where they killed and imprisoned opponents, ....)? But those countries which are aware of their past, which discuss it and who do not deny it, wo changed themselves and made friends again with their neighbours are those which can feed their people and guarantee a certain standard of living and security. Of course it was not only some Serbs who did horrorful things during the Balkan Wars. Every side has its victims and those who committed these crimes. Usually everybody looses from a war. But only blaming the others does not lead you anywhere. The latter is addressed to everybody. Peace, friendship and prosperity to the Balkans! :)

Read the book "The forgotten 500", Metrod, if you want to see Chetnik alliances with America during WWII. Please tell me what the Kosovo Albanians were doing during the same time. Does the Skanderbeg Albanian Nazi Division have any meaning to you?

Attacking the medium and not the actual content of the post (which provided links to the quotes by various critics) is about as dishonest as you can get. So, what was the point of your comment? Vanity?
(Dumb & Dumber, 24 February 2012 16:50)

Thank you for saving me the effort to respond to these simpletons. I think the point of his comment is to be anti-Serbian, and nothing else. They don't let the facts get in the way of their bias.

(metrod, 23 February 2012 20:51)

Metrod, you're a joke and so are your links. Draza Mihajlovic was awarded the Legion of Merit by the US of A, the highest award possible for non-US citizens.
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/ww2/Felman/snf-speech.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEa_Mihailovi%C4%87
http://www.teslasociety.com/500_2.htm

Your education, if you have any, obviously comes from albania or the fictitious 'Kosova', which explains your attempts to falsify and fabricate history. First educate yourself if you want to have a serious debate, otherwise don't waste my time.
Cheers!!

In light of Tadic's comments yesterday where he accepted reality, which is Serbia will not get in, it seemed politically wise for the Germans to do something beyond the usual of sending other EU lackeys forward to say, "we think Serbia deserves this". The only power that Germany really has in Serbia is the EU carrot. But they have unlimited power over all other EU member. Now that it's starting to sink into Serbs in general that this entire process has been a "scam", Germany's boy Tadic was likely not to be around for long... unless Germany can stop the election like they did to the Greeks. Tadic getting thrown out on his EU pipe-dream ear could end up causing Germany many headaches. They needed to do something. Of course nothing has changed, Serbia won't get in. I noticed Romania is now saying they will block Serbia's bid. The important thing is for Serbia to accept that one way or another there's no EU in your future and Germany will always apply pressure on someone to keep you out. And don't be delusional on this score. If Germany wanted you in, you'd be in. Isn't it possible that you could rebuild your own country with your own resources? If Serbia doesn't do this, then you'll live in this limbo of waiting on the EU fantasy land to fall from the sky. That's not much of a life.

Hey Serbs, since you hate Germany so much, why are there currently 500,000 Serbs living in Germany? Why not go to Russia for jobs? I guess Nazi, WWII, Ustashe, are allll forgotten when given the chance to live in a first world country! So much hatred for Germany, yet sooo many Serbs itching to live there! Ha!
(Anka, 23 February 2012 19:51)
======================

Hey Albanians, if you hate Serbia so much where are there so many of you living in Serbia then? Why don't you all pack up and leave and go to Albania seeing how you love it so much? Why did so many of you jump the border and enter Kosovo?

Germany can say whatever it wants but I don't buy any of it. It seems odd that now we have Romania wanting to block Serbia. Could it be that Germany wants to have it's hands clean and let Romania do it's dirty work?

On the other hand it might even be Russia's influence. We really don't have any information of any value.

"Hey Serbs, since you hate Germany so much, why are there currently 500,000 Serbs living in Germany?"

Anka

Hey Anka, since you albanians hate Serbia so much why is there over 2 million albanians living in Serbia? Why do albanians from Albania keep coming to Serbia? Move back to Albania if you want jobs and education.

"Dragan, You're getting your review from 1389 blog?
That's a very unbiased and credible source, don't you think?"
(metrod, 23 February 2012 20:51)

1389 blog? Well, makes sense, and it explains a lot of his postings, opinions, view of the world and attitude :)

"Germany can say whatever it wants but I don't buy any of it. It seems odd that now we have Romania wanting to block Serbia. Could it be that Germany wants to have it's hands clean and let Romania do it's dirty work? On the other hand it might even be Russia's influence. We really don't have any information of any value."
(Peggy, 24 February 2012 07:41)

Oh, new conspiracy theories. Haven't the exact reasons for a possible Romanian vetoes been given? Maybe you should read the article about it here on B92 a bit more thoroughly.

But it seems Germans are not aware that attacks/invading of sovereign countries were/are also horrific crimes.
(aaayyy, 24 February 2012 09:53)

Participating in an international intervention in a country where a 'president' is running amok and slaughtering his own people is not such horrific.

"Dragan, You're getting your review from 1389 blog?
That's a very unbiased and credible source, don't you think?"
(metrod, 23 February 2012 20:51)

1389 blog? Well, makes sense, and it explains a lot of his postings, opinions, view of the world and attitude :)
(Comm. Parrisson, 24 February 2012 09:09)

Attacking the medium and not the actual content of the post (which provided links to the quotes by various critics) is about as dishonest as you can get. So, what was the point of your comment? Vanity?

@ MikeC I friendly suggest not to use more this big colonials lies, because you damage Serb reputation. But if you want to joke let’s joke. Here is my link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kosovo#20th_century
Just click it and search the word colon. I’m waiting your link please.
At the end of our joke you will understand that Serbs from Belgrade has come to Kosova, Albanian from Kosovo has come to Albania, and no one Albanian from Albania has gone to Kosovo, at least from 1912.

Metrod, you're a joke and so are your links. Draza Mihajlovic was awarded the Legion of Merit by the US of A, the highest award possible for non-US citizens.
[link]
[link]
[link]

Your education, if you have any, obviously comes from albania or the fictitious 'Kosova', which explains your attempts to falsify and fabricate history. First educate yourself if you want to have a serious debate, otherwise don't waste my time.
Cheers!!
(Dragan, 23 February 2012 21:28)

So being a friend of America is good when it suits Serbs right but America being Friend of Kosovo is horrible hahaha funny Dragan. How many Nazis lived in USA after WWII many please man do not hide behind us skirt a portion of Serbias population did support Nazis you dont ike it as it does not suit your poor me personality syndrom your nation has taken.

Hey Serbs, since you hate Germany so much, why are there currently 500,000 Serbs living in Germany? Why not go to Russia for jobs?
(Anka, 23 February 2012 19:51)

Don't be surprised, dear! Serbs are smart people and are able to distinguish between words and actions. Don't be confused by some people in these forums and those 22k naives who applied for Russian passports who are fed with words :)

Read the book "The forgotten 500", Metrod, if you want to see Chetnik alliances with America during WWII. Please tell me what the Kosovo Albanians were doing during the same time. Does the Skanderbeg Albanian Nazi Division have any meaning to you?
(winston, 23 February 2012 22:46
_______________

Its interesting how serbs are generaly farmiliar with the nazi collaborator elements of Albania, and not with the Albanian partizans who fought against fascists and liberated Albania without foerign help.

Albanian partizans also fought to liberate jugoslavia but apparently some serbs conviently forget/ dont know a part of this Ballkan history.(thanks to the propaganda machine)

During WW2 the Jewish population were being prosecuted all over Europe. After WW2 Albania was the only state in Europe to have more Jews than pre WW2.
The general population refused to hand over the Jewish population to the nazis while generally other Europeans did.

Thats what the majority non-nazi collaborating Albanians were doing in WW2 just so you know Winston, and some others who to paint all Albanians as nazi collaborators.

Germany is playing games. If they thought it would be better to keep Serbia out of the EU they certainly would. They want it in for financial reasons. They think it is making Serbians perspire and they enjoy that. If they do not go with the EU they could go with Russia and maybe be better off. As far as giving up Kosovo? Would Germany ever give up a part of their country?Serbs did not start the Yugo war, outsiders did, Serbs wanted Yugo held together. Who started it? Outsiders and Germany persuaded Croatia to go independent. The people of Yugo were victims of these outsiders.

"Would Germany ever give up a part of their country?"
Simply check some old maps from 1920 and some from nowadays, and your question will be answered, immediately.

"Serbs did not start the Yugo war, outsiders did, Serbs wanted Yugo held together. Who started it? Outsiders and Germany persuaded Croatia to go independent"
(Kathryn, 24 February 2012 18:50)

You contradict yourself. Serbs wanted to keep Yugo together, but some other people in YU didn't want that. Do you think keeping a country together with violence against (a part of) the population is something positive? If there would have been smarter politicians in YU than Tudjman, Milosevic and similar-minded persons, YU would have gone the way of Czechoslovakia or the former Soviet Union, i.e. split (more or less) peacefully.

to aaayyy: Not true, Germans are not only aware of the crimes the Nazis did against the Jewish people. It is only the biggest group of victims, so it is most discussed. Crimes against other groups such as Sinti&Roma, political opponents, homosexuals, Polish, whoever have their place in the public debate as well.
(Observer)

But it seems Germans are not aware that attacks/invading of sovereign countries were/are also horrific crimes.

"But it seems Germans are not aware that attacks/invading of sovereign countries were/are also horrific crimes.
(aaayyy, 24 February 2012 09:53) "

First of all, if you point towards the happenings of 1999: It was and is highly discussed in Germany if these actions were justified. Originally most German people were against it. There is a famous saying in Germany which can be translated as: "Never war again!". To change the mood of the people, the foreign minister said at this time: "Yes, we said "Never war again!" but we also said "never Holocaust again!".
Leaving aside what I personally think, I would like to give you the thoughts of the other side: Is a country that tries to extinct some groups in its society still sovereign? Isn't the concept of "sovereignty" connected to "responsibility for the well-being of the people in a country"?
Go back more than 70 years in history and think about Germany: What if other countries would have intervened in time and stopped the Nazis? Would you still say: This is a sovereign state, we cannot do anything. Let them kill millions of people, it's on their soil? Or think about the Tutsi and Hutu?
A state is always only a constructed thing to serve the people and to ensure a better living.
Of course, there is a huge dilemma: When did a state reached the point where it looses its sovereignty? When is the point reached to say "enough is enough"?

"But it seems Germans are not aware that attacks/invading of sovereign countries were/are also horrific crimes.
(aaayyy, 24 February 2012 09:53) "

First of all, if you point towards the happenings of 1999: It was and is highly discussed in Germany if these actions were justified. Originally most German people were against it. There is a famous saying in Germany which can be translated as: "Never war again!". To change the mood of the people, the foreign minister said at this time: "Yes, we said "Never war again!" but we also said "never Holocaust again!".
Leaving aside what I personally think, I would like to give you the thoughts of the other side: Is a country that tries to extinct some groups in its society still sovereign? Isn't the concept of "sovereignty" connected to "responsibility for the well-being of the people in a country"?
Go back more than 70 years in history and think about Germany: What if other countries would have intervened in time and stopped the Nazis? Would you still say: This is a sovereign state, we cannot do anything. Let them kill millions of people, it's on their soil? Or think about the Tutsi and Hutu?
A state is always only a constructed thing to serve the people and to ensure a better living.
Of course, there is a huge dilemma: When did a state reached the point where it looses its sovereignty? When is the point reached to say "enough is enough"?
(Observer, 24 February 2012 13:34)

I've been reading about thoughts of the other side for many years. You try to portray Milosevic as a dictator, who got mad and started killing his own citizens, but actually it wasn't like that. Actually it was old ethnic conflict coming to war over disputed territory. Both sides should have been pressed to start real negotiation or at least to apply better methods of war. For example during the war Serbs needed modern technology to fight against guerilla.

Germany is playing games. If they thought it would be better to keep Serbia out of the EU they certainly would. They want it in for financial reasons. They think it is making Serbians perspire and they enjoy that. If they do not go with the EU they could go with Russia and maybe be better off.
______________
How? The Russian economy is about the size of Spain's, slightly bigger than the Dutch, while 3/4 of the GDP derive from oil exports. The GDP per capita is about the same as in Serbia, while the country is highly corrupt and faces massive political tensions right now and inequality is at a striking level and the gap between the rich and the poor is increasing. How should Serbia be better of with Russia? Do you think Serbia, as an island in the EU will prosper? The decision between East and West is over, thanks to the end of the cold war and globalisation.
____________

As far as giving up Kosovo? Would Germany ever give up a part of their country?
___________
Germany gave up parts of its country twice. Take a look at a map pre-WWI and pre-WWII.
___________
Serbs did not start the Yugo war, outsiders did, Serbs wanted Yugo held together.
___________

Indeed, the Serbs wanted to hold Yugo together, but they were dominating the other countries and they did not want to live in a state with Serbia. Yugo's economy was going bad in the 80's and Croatia and Slovenia did not want to continue sending money to Belgrade and the other (poorer) states.
_____________

Who started it? Outsiders and Germany persuaded Croatia to go independent. The people of Yugo were victims of these outsiders.
(Kathryn, 24 February 2012 18:50)
_____________
Victims, victims, victims.... I really can't hear it anymore. Read a Croatian history book or some international books about the break up of Yugoslavia and the already existing independence movements in the 70's. Yugo was still a dictatorship and every movement that was not in line with the official agenda was shut down with force. One of the reasons why so many left Yugo. Try to get a more objective view on the topic and do not romantizise things which you only know from Serbian history books. History is always a matter of perspective and if you check Serbian history books against Croatian, Bosnian, Slovenian other books, you will see how different people can experience the world.

Do you think keeping a country together with violence against (a part of) the population is something positive?
(Comm. Parrisson)

It can be applied to Croatia, Bosnia, and if somebody believe Kosovo is a state, to "Kosovo".

@Dragan: I'm pretty sure you never watched this movie and you simply repeat some populistic articles from the Serbian media, right? Otherwise you would know, that it does not blame the Serbs, but war in general. It is a social study about the behaviour of people in times of war and how war occurs. And besides, it was no flop.
(Outsider, 23 February 2012 15:07)
==========================

If you call this a success, then it was a success.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1714209/

"Germany can say whatever it wants but I don't buy any of it. It seems odd that now we have Romania wanting to block Serbia. Could it be that Germany wants to have it's hands clean and let Romania do it's dirty work? On the other hand it might even be Russia's influence. We really don't have any information of any value."
(Peggy, 24 February 2012 07:41)

Oh, new conspiracy theories. Haven't the exact reasons for a possible Romanian vetoes been given? Maybe you should read the article about it here on B92 a bit more thoroughly.
(Comm. Parrisson, 24 February 2012 12:36)

To Peggy - How could it be Russian influence? Do you think that Russia doesn't want Serbia to become EU member and influences Romania to rise Vlah question? Why would Romania listen to Russia? We can understand why Romania would listen to Germany - they are their EU bosses, but why to Russia?

To Comm. Parrisson - why would this question be risen quite of a sudden right before decision on Serbia candidate status?

"Croatians have always hated Serbs and the only reason they joined Yugoslavia was because they knew who liberated them from occupiers. They joined freely, even welcomed Serbs with flowers. Then they started dreaming of breaking away and their Ustashi started exterminating the Serbs.
Now you tell me it was always all Serbs' fault? Take the blinkers off." (Peggy)
___________

I did not say that it was always all Serbs' fault. I said nationalism on all sides was the reason for the break up of Yugoslavia. As you say: "Croatians have always hated Serbs" - I would be careful with generalisations, I'm pretty sure not "all the Croatians" hated Serbs. But apart from that, you answer your questions yourself about the break up of Yugoslavia. Nationalism (and I think patriotism is nationalism as well) involves always feelings that you are better than others. Not a good condition to build a state upon.
You don't have to draw new borders, you can have a multi ethnic state with democratic rights, proper civil participation and minority rights. As long as no one thinks they have disadvantages because of their identity and if they are not hunted by the majority, you can easily build a state with them. But that is not given in some reasons. Take Kosovo. If they would be properly integrated, you would have almost a quarter of Albanians sitting in the parliament in Belgrade...

Indeed, the Serbs wanted to hold Yugo together, but they were dominating the other countries and they did not want to live in a state with Serbia. Yugo's economy was going bad in the 80's and Croatia and Slovenia did not want to continue sending money to Belgrade and the other (poorer) states.
=========================

Let's say that is true then answer me this question. What was their reason for wanting an independent Croatian state during WW2? Did Belgrade try to rip them off then too?
Croatians have always hated Serbs and the only reason they joined Yugoslavia was because they knew who liberated them from occupiers. They joined freely, even welcomed Serbs with flowers. Then they started dreaming of breaking away and their Ustashi started exterminating the Serbs.
Now you tell me it was always all Serbs' fault? Take the blinkers off.

Do you think keeping a country together with violence against (a part of) the population is something positive? If there would have been smarter politicians in YU than Tudjman, Milosevic and similar-minded persons, YU would have gone the way of Czechoslovakia or the former Soviet Union, i.e. split (more or less) peacefully.
(Comm. Parrisson, 24 February 2012 20:37)
=================

Do as I say and not as I do. If you really believe what you have just said don't hold onto the north so tightly. Allow all Serbian enclaves to leave and join their brothers.
Doesn't work in Kosovo because it's a "unique case"?

dori tirana, All the link proves is that Serbs have been getting systematically cleansed from Kosovo for a very long time.

Seeing how once upon a time there were more Serbs than Albanians how do you figure that Serbs have come from Belgrade while Albanians were there and all of a sudden all that started changing? Where did the extra Albanians come from and where did the Serbs go?

Seeing how once upon a time there were more Serbs than Albanians how do you figure that Serbs have come from Belgrade while Albanians were there and all of a sudden all that started changing? Where did the extra Albanians come from and where did the Serbs go?
(Peggy, 25 February 2012 01:20)


Very fascinating questions
I have a question of my own. Where did the serbs come from? Where are the rest of Illyrian clans besides the Albani and Dradani?

Response is not necessary i've already made my point.