Kosovo anniversary goes largely ignored in Belgrade

"The solution the DSS proposes to this situation is - frozen conflict:

"Frozen conflict means an exit from the dialogue. It means freezing that free fall into the abyss, stopping it somehow. It can be done if the dialogue is abandoned." "

It is exactly this policy that lead to Kosovo's Self-Determination move on 17 February 2008. Under this leadership, Serbia refused to dialogue, so the solution was shoved down its throat. This is the government that pushed Serbia into the abyss, and if re-elected, more stuff will definitely be shoved down its throat...

In the age of the internet and instantaneous real-time information, your Soviet era tactics do not work!

The anniversary will begin when we see an independent SCOTLAND!

"Serbia refused to dialogue"

Who offered a dialodue to Serbia? Serbia was presented Ahtisaary plan to be signed.

Yawn, Klasiku, Serbia will eventually do what is best for Serbia. I think that day is coming. The EU is slowly rotting away, please read the news. No, EU policy will not change, but it will become a lot more pro-Serbian, than pro-Albanian - mark my words. Think about it, what does the EU have in common with Albanian muslims?
(winston, 17 February 2012 21:01)
Wiston this song of Albanian Muslim is an old one. If you don’t have a new song you don’t have alternative.I’m an Albanian muslim and I’m an Eureopan. Be sure for this.

The USA/EU gives Serbia an ultimatum on Serbian/Kosovo talks - well, Serbia should just say, f-off, Kosovo is a Serbian issue! We say no to your ultimatum, US/EU, we will place Kosovo in a frozen conflict - end of story. There is nothing the world powers can do to make KiM an independent Muslim Albanian State without Serbia saying, OK. Let the Western fools spend billions funding the narco's in Pristina, Serbia must never give in. Kosovo Je Srbija - it has such a beautiful ring, only because it is true. The Albanians in KiM are free to live there, Serbs will never drive them away, like Albanians tried to rid Kosovo of Serbs (pogrom of 2004). CCCC

"Serbs will never drive them away..."
(winston, 17 February 2012 21:17)

Have you ever been to Kosovo winston? Do you know where Kosovo is? What do you think of Slobodan Milosevic? Where was he from and what country represented?

Yawn, Klasiku, Serbia will eventually do what is best for Serbia. I think that day is coming. The EU is slowly rotting away, please read the news. No, EU policy will not change, but it will become a lot more pro-Serbian, than pro-Albanian - mark my words. Think about it, what does the EU have in common with Albanian muslims?

"Thank you for your comment, but what is your main point? From the very beginning Ahtisaari worked toward Kosovo independence, which had been promised for Albanians several years before.
KAlbanians knew that eventually the West would support their independence, so it didn't make sense for them to actually negitiate with Serbia and make some compromise.
(aaayyy, 17 February 2012 21:43)"

You guys never learn, don't you.

Serbia had a chance to accept the Rambuillet solution, that would've kept Kosovo within Yugoslavia, but refused.

You lost a war as a result.

Serbia had a chance to fully participate, in the Ahtisaari dialogue, but the "Kosovo is Serbia" rhetoric didn't work again.

What do you expect, seriously? After your military machines killed thousands, you yet hope to ever rule those areas?

You all act like nothing happened, whereas one of the worst genocidal atrocities on the European continent since World War II was penetrated by Serbia in the Balkans in the 1990's.

I am sorry, this is reality, not a bad dream that you can wake up from. Serbia's current generation has been stigmatized by the actions of its leaders and will suffer as a result for years to come.

The collective ignorance puzzles me more than anything else. Man up and take responsibility! Apologize for once, for the sake of your future generations, so this stigma does not follow them into history!

The USA/EU gives Serbia an ultimatum on Serbian/Kosovo talks - well, Serbia should just say, f-off, Kosovo is a Serbian issue! We say no to your ultimatum, US/EU, we will place Kosovo in a frozen conflict - end of story. There is nothing the world powers can do to make KiM an independent Muslim Albanian State without Serbia saying, OK. Let the Western fools spend billions funding the narco's in Pristina, Serbia must never give in. Kosovo Je Srbija - it has such a beautiful ring, only because it is true. The Albanians in KiM are free to live there, Serbs will never drive them away, like Albanians tried to rid Kosovo of Serbs (pogrom of 2004). CCCC

Who offered a dialodue to Serbia? Serbia was presented Ahtisaary plan to be signed.
(aaayyy, 17 February 2012 19:45)

UNSC authorized the initiation of the Kosovo status process in 2005. The UN-facilitated Kosovo future status process was led by UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari, former president of Finland; Austrian diplomat Albert Rohan is his deputy.

The initial status negotiations in Vienna focused on technical issues important for Kosovo's long-term stability, particularly the rights and protection of Kosovo's minorities (especially the Kosovo Serbs). Ahtisaari brought the parties together for the first direct dialogue in February 2006 to discuss decentralization of local government, which is an important measure to protect Kosovo Serb communities.

Subsequent meetings addressed economic issues, property rights, protection of Serbian Orthodox Church heritage and institutional guarantees for the rights of Kosovo's minorities.

On 24 July 2006, Ahtisaari brought the parties together in Vienna for the first high-level talks on the status outcome itself. Serbian President Boris Tadić, Prime Minister Vojislav Koštunica, Kosovo President Fatmir Sejdiu and Prime Minister Agim Çeku attended and presented their respective platforms for Kosovo's future status.

Ahtisaari later told the press that the meeting resulted in no breakthroughs, but added that the discussion was "frank and candid" and the atmosphere was better than he could have expected.

Ahtisaari briefed Contact Group foreign ministers on 20 September 2006, in New York City at a meeting chaired by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. At that meeting, the Contact Group released a press statement that reaffirmed its desire to work towards a negotiated settlement in the course of 2006 and also endorsed Ahtisaari's plans to develop a comprehensive proposal for a status settlement.

The anniversary will begin when we see an independent SCOTLAND!
(FIREWORK, 17 February 2012 23:47)

And if Scotland voted to secede from the UK then the BRITS should blamed themselves for supporting separatists like the kosovo albanians.:D

"The English version of the UN charter says nowhere that Russia has the power to not allow applications for membership in the UN."
(icj, 18 February 2012 03:32)

Correct. Kosovo could apply. But even Thaci is smart enough not to even try it, to avoid the embarrassment to be refused, because Russia and China would veto it (just like the USA didn't allow Palestine to become an UN member, though they applied)

Damn, looking at the picture there is a lot of people in prison camp Kosova, they even keep children there. How cruel.

Yawn, Klasiku, Serbia will eventually do what is best for Serbia. I think that day is coming. The EU is slowly rotting away, please read the news. No, EU policy will not change, but it will become a lot more pro-Serbian, than pro-Albanian - mark my words. Think about it, what does the EU have in common with Albanian muslims?
(winston, 17 February 2012 21:01)

Well, we agree on something at least; Serbia will eventually do what is best for Serbia. They will recognize Kosovo, either explicitly or implicitly, and join the EU.

Now, what does the EU have in common with Albanian Muslims? Both are tired of Serbia...

In Belgrade on Friday, Serbia's chief negotiator in the ongoing Belgrade-Priština dialogue Borislav Stefanović, offered his view on the subject, saying that the country's diplomacy "prevented Kosovo from becoming fully independent, because it is not a completely internationally recognized state".
...yes DUDE you and your government is working hard every time and every same thing has a ending and kosovo is causing you billions in loses and still Kosovo will be a fully independent state and yes you country will be sued for crimes and destruction of the property during the war ...forgeting Serbian Army and MUB involvment in Kosovo ..in the time in court of law your government cant say as they say in case of bosnia we "didn't do it" !!??

From the very beginning Ahtisaari worked toward Kosovo independence, which had been promised for Albanians several years before.
(aaayyy, 17 February 2012 21:43)

Of course... the world works based on pragmatism not memories of 600-year old battles. Given two options (a) forcing 2M Albanians back under Serbia or (b) Kosovo's independence, obviously (b) was much easier to achieve (it was not because the West loves Albanians or stupidities like that). In regards to status, Antisaari was faced with a fait accompli in 1999 - so his job was just to wake up some Serbs who were still dreaming in 2007 that Kosovo was part of Serbia because somebody wrote that in Serbia's Constitution LOL

It is a give and take ... process.
It seems that albanians only want to take.

"Irrelevant of the number of countries that recognize Kosovo, said Stefanović, "that will not bring a truly high, desired level of independence, that the authorities in Priština want"."

This is so non-sense. No wonder Serbia always looses because people like this are in power.

So let's assume that the levels of independence go from 0 to 10, and according to Stefanovic Kosovo will never be more than, say, 6. And than what ? Should Kosovo feel better to go to 0 because they can't achieve the 10 ?!!!

(Fluid, 17 February 2012 21:11)

Thank you for your comment, but what is your main point? From the very beginning Ahtisaari worked toward Kosovo independence, which had been promised for Albanians several years before.
KAlbanians knew that eventually the West would support their independence, so it didn't make sense for them to actually negitiate with Serbia and make some compromise.

"Yawn, Klasiku, Serbia will eventually do what is best for Serbia"

winston, are you talking about the real Serbia, or the "Greater Serbia"?

You could do as you please, as long as it does not interfere with the internal affairs of the neighboring countries such as, Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia, and so on.

Recognizing the risk of oversimplification, one could say that Serbs have been emotionally hurt because of Kosovo's separation. The Balkan's "inat" is in its full speed for sure. Keep in mind that as the old adage goes...the passage of time heals the wound and/or lessens the pain.

"But Russian support for Serbia at the UN meant that Priština could not apply for membership in the world organization"

Now we also have a Serbian version of the UN charter (in addition to the Serbian versions of 1244, ICJ's opinion, etc). The English version of the UN charter says nowhere that Russia has the power to not allow applications for membership in the UN.

Correct. Kosovo could apply.
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 13:22)

Great, that was my point that B92 was wrong.
----------

But even Thaci is smart enough not to even try it, to avoid the embarrassment to be refused, because Russia and China would veto it (just like the USA didn't allow Palestine to become an UN member, though they applied)
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 13:22)

The rest is speculation :)

So let's assume that the levels of independence go from 0 to 10, and according to Stefanovic Kosovo will never be more than, say, 6. And than what ? Should Kosovo feel better to go to 0 because they can't achieve the 10 ?!!!
(icj1, 18 February 2012 16:11)

No, I think he meant that the 'government' in Pristina should stop dreaming that Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country, realize that an UDI doesn't make you a state (even the ICJ said exactly that), stop living with the illusion that 'Kosovo's status is solved' but instead work on a mutually agreed solution, whatever it might look like.

"That's something that is evident as a confirmed fact every day. If that were not so, Brussels and Washington would not be exerting such pressure on Belgrade to recognize Kosovo. If that were not so, they would have recognized Kosovo, they would have created that state of theirs, do what they like, and everything would be alright. Well, everything is not alright as long as Serbia isn't recognizing Kosovo," DSS official and former Minister for Kosovo Slobodan Samardžić stated.

The EU doesn't recognize countries, since that is a sovereign power that each country has. However, 22 of the 27 EU countries (pretty much all the ones that are not teetering on the brink of collapse) have recognized Kosovo. As for Washington, they did recognize Kosovo immediately after the declaration of independence. Now, Washington and Brussels have "created that state of theirs," they do whatever they want, and everything is alright...

From the very beginning Ahtisaari worked toward Kosovo independence, which had been promised for Albanians several years before.
(aaayyy, 17 February 2012 21:43)

Of course... the world works based on pragmatism
(icj)

Where is the world's pragmatism on RS and Northern Kosovo issues?

B92, shouldn't there be a quote of how many posts you can make on any one subject?
This ICJ person seems to hijack every discussion here and just keeps post on and on and on.
I have never seen anyone suffering from so much verbal d**$@@ea in my life. Just wondering if others are happy to see him/her post multiple times on every subject.

"...one could say that Serbs have been emotionally hurt because of Kosovo's separation. The Balkan's "inat" is in its full speed for sure."
(Eugene, 18 February 2012 15:26)

Not really. The title of the article is "Kosovo largely ignored in Belgrade". No full speed or "inat" anywhere. Only a couple of commentators here on B92 and that's pretty much it.

No, I think he meant that the 'government' in Pristina should stop dreaming that Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country, realize that an UDI doesn't make you a state (even the ICJ said exactly that), stop living with the illusion that 'Kosovo's status is solved' but instead work on a mutually agreed solution, whatever it might look like.
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 17:04)

You're right and onto something that the ICJ stated a couple years ago. Kosovo's DOI didn't make it a country but the action that Pristina took and the recognitions that it is receiving increases the legitimate claims to govern Kosovars.

Since you're on a roll this "mutually agreed solution" has a name, and it's called the constitution (based on Ahtisaari Proposal). It's time to enforce it in all corners of Kosovo, from E-W, and N-S.

Sincerely,

No, I think he meant that the 'government' in Pristina should stop dreaming that Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country,
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 17:04)

Of course; but Kosovo Serbs disagree and think that is not a dream; assuming of course that you are not saying that Kosovo Serbs are hallucinating and holding referendums about dreams :)
----------

realize that an UDI doesn't make you a state (even the ICJ said exactly that)
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 17:04)

The ICJ did not say that, unless of course you are referring to the Serbian version of the ICJ opinion.
----------

top living with the illusion that 'Kosovo's status is solved' but instead work on a mutually agreed solution, whatever it might look like.
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 17:04)

Well, for the people concerned, i.e. the Kosovo inhabitants, it is solved. If Zimbabwe or some other country think that is not solved, by all means they are free to go ahead and discuss about solutions among themselves, to eternity if they want :)
----------

Where is the world's pragmatism on RS and Northern Kosovo issues?
(aaayyy, 18 February 2012 21:08)

Is just there. Anything that the world is doing in respect to RS and Northern Kosovo that is not pragmatic ?!

Anyway, we were speaking about Kosovo; I think Kosovo Albanians couldn't care less about the world actions in regards to RS....

Where is the world's pragmatism on RS and Northern Kosovo issues?
(aaayyy, 18 February 2012 21:08)

It's there. The way RS came to be, it is only through pragmatism. If it wasn't there wouldn't be any RS at all.
Northen Kosova- Pragmatism will only happen once the mentality of the Serb population changes. You guys behave as if gave us candy and flowers and didn't like them. Once you set the whole region on fire, you shouldn't be expecting anything. You should consider yourself lucky they had some mercy on you. You can't go around piss off half of the world and act as if nothing happened. Once you realize that, then you can expect pragmatism. Then you can also expect sympathy. Until then you should be treated, at best, the way they're treating you now.

"Kosovo's status is solved' but instead work on a mutually agreed solution, whatever it might look like."

- No, mutual agreement can't be reached here. Serbia not only has broken the social contract but it has rapped and massacred it. Until Serbia realizes that, there is nothing to talk about. Especially since this current situation is 100 times better than any mutual agreement reached with Serbia. What Albanian in their right fvkng mind would want to live under Serbia, be it nominally or not. Look at the Serbs here. Who in their right mind would want to have Peggys, Winstons and Jovans make life altering decisions for them; even being suicidal that sort of thing doesn't fly. That is your average Serb for you. Now imagine the Kostunica's, Seseljs, Nikolic's that have that power; and these are not even the fringe thinkers in Serbia. These are your mainstream garden variety. Are you nuts to even suggest to us that we accommodate the will of these kind of people to alter our lives, to live under their power so we can make them happy? Until that species of people which comprises the masses today in Serbia has disappeared, a mutual decision is the worst decision possible. Several generations need to pass before there is even a slight chance that this sort of mentality that today suffocates Serbia, disappears. Until then the current situation is the best way forward.

P.S Tadic is no better. A hardcore nationalist hiding under the mask of a moderate. When the Jovanovic's are mainstream you may have a point. Until then...

B92, shouldn't there be a quote of how many posts you can make on any one subject?
This ICJ person seems to hijack every discussion here and just keeps post on and on and on.
I have never seen anyone suffering from so much verbal d**$@@ea in my life. Just wondering if others are happy to see him/her post multiple times on every subject.
(Peggy, 20 February 2012 02:58)

Sorry, Peggy... I'm trying to compete with the likes of Zoran, aayyyyy, sj... but it's hard LOL

But I do understand your point that opinions contrary to yours are not welcome :)

Yawn, Klasiku, Serbia will eventually do what is best for Serbia. I think that day is coming. The EU is slowly rotting away, please read the news. No, EU policy will not change, but it will become a lot more pro-Serbian, than pro-Albanian - mark my words. Think about it, what does the EU have in common with Albanian muslims?

The USA/EU gives Serbia an ultimatum on Serbian/Kosovo talks - well, Serbia should just say, f-off, Kosovo is a Serbian issue! We say no to your ultimatum, US/EU, we will place Kosovo in a frozen conflict - end of story. There is nothing the world powers can do to make KiM an independent Muslim Albanian State without Serbia saying, OK. Let the Western fools spend billions funding the narco's in Pristina, Serbia must never give in. Kosovo Je Srbija - it has such a beautiful ring, only because it is true. The Albanians in KiM are free to live there, Serbs will never drive them away, like Albanians tried to rid Kosovo of Serbs (pogrom of 2004). CCCC

Damn, looking at the picture there is a lot of people in prison camp Kosova, they even keep children there. How cruel.

"Serbia refused to dialogue"

Who offered a dialodue to Serbia? Serbia was presented Ahtisaary plan to be signed.

"The solution the DSS proposes to this situation is - frozen conflict:

"Frozen conflict means an exit from the dialogue. It means freezing that free fall into the abyss, stopping it somehow. It can be done if the dialogue is abandoned." "

It is exactly this policy that lead to Kosovo's Self-Determination move on 17 February 2008. Under this leadership, Serbia refused to dialogue, so the solution was shoved down its throat. This is the government that pushed Serbia into the abyss, and if re-elected, more stuff will definitely be shoved down its throat...

In the age of the internet and instantaneous real-time information, your Soviet era tactics do not work!

"Serbs will never drive them away..."
(winston, 17 February 2012 21:17)

Have you ever been to Kosovo winston? Do you know where Kosovo is? What do you think of Slobodan Milosevic? Where was he from and what country represented?

The USA/EU gives Serbia an ultimatum on Serbian/Kosovo talks - well, Serbia should just say, f-off, Kosovo is a Serbian issue! We say no to your ultimatum, US/EU, we will place Kosovo in a frozen conflict - end of story. There is nothing the world powers can do to make KiM an independent Muslim Albanian State without Serbia saying, OK. Let the Western fools spend billions funding the narco's in Pristina, Serbia must never give in. Kosovo Je Srbija - it has such a beautiful ring, only because it is true. The Albanians in KiM are free to live there, Serbs will never drive them away, like Albanians tried to rid Kosovo of Serbs (pogrom of 2004). CCCC

(Fluid, 17 February 2012 21:11)

Thank you for your comment, but what is your main point? From the very beginning Ahtisaari worked toward Kosovo independence, which had been promised for Albanians several years before.
KAlbanians knew that eventually the West would support their independence, so it didn't make sense for them to actually negitiate with Serbia and make some compromise.

Yawn, Klasiku, Serbia will eventually do what is best for Serbia. I think that day is coming. The EU is slowly rotting away, please read the news. No, EU policy will not change, but it will become a lot more pro-Serbian, than pro-Albanian - mark my words. Think about it, what does the EU have in common with Albanian muslims?
(winston, 17 February 2012 21:01)
Wiston this song of Albanian Muslim is an old one. If you don’t have a new song you don’t have alternative.I’m an Albanian muslim and I’m an Eureopan. Be sure for this.

The anniversary will begin when we see an independent SCOTLAND!

The anniversary will begin when we see an independent SCOTLAND!
(FIREWORK, 17 February 2012 23:47)

And if Scotland voted to secede from the UK then the BRITS should blamed themselves for supporting separatists like the kosovo albanians.:D

Yawn, Klasiku, Serbia will eventually do what is best for Serbia. I think that day is coming. The EU is slowly rotting away, please read the news. No, EU policy will not change, but it will become a lot more pro-Serbian, than pro-Albanian - mark my words. Think about it, what does the EU have in common with Albanian muslims?
(winston, 17 February 2012 21:01)

Well, we agree on something at least; Serbia will eventually do what is best for Serbia. They will recognize Kosovo, either explicitly or implicitly, and join the EU.

Now, what does the EU have in common with Albanian Muslims? Both are tired of Serbia...

"...one could say that Serbs have been emotionally hurt because of Kosovo's separation. The Balkan's "inat" is in its full speed for sure."
(Eugene, 18 February 2012 15:26)

Not really. The title of the article is "Kosovo largely ignored in Belgrade". No full speed or "inat" anywhere. Only a couple of commentators here on B92 and that's pretty much it.

Who offered a dialodue to Serbia? Serbia was presented Ahtisaary plan to be signed.
(aaayyy, 17 February 2012 19:45)

UNSC authorized the initiation of the Kosovo status process in 2005. The UN-facilitated Kosovo future status process was led by UN Special Envoy Martti Ahtisaari, former president of Finland; Austrian diplomat Albert Rohan is his deputy.

The initial status negotiations in Vienna focused on technical issues important for Kosovo's long-term stability, particularly the rights and protection of Kosovo's minorities (especially the Kosovo Serbs). Ahtisaari brought the parties together for the first direct dialogue in February 2006 to discuss decentralization of local government, which is an important measure to protect Kosovo Serb communities.

Subsequent meetings addressed economic issues, property rights, protection of Serbian Orthodox Church heritage and institutional guarantees for the rights of Kosovo's minorities.

On 24 July 2006, Ahtisaari brought the parties together in Vienna for the first high-level talks on the status outcome itself. Serbian President Boris Tadić, Prime Minister Vojislav Koštunica, Kosovo President Fatmir Sejdiu and Prime Minister Agim Çeku attended and presented their respective platforms for Kosovo's future status.

Ahtisaari later told the press that the meeting resulted in no breakthroughs, but added that the discussion was "frank and candid" and the atmosphere was better than he could have expected.

Ahtisaari briefed Contact Group foreign ministers on 20 September 2006, in New York City at a meeting chaired by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. At that meeting, the Contact Group released a press statement that reaffirmed its desire to work towards a negotiated settlement in the course of 2006 and also endorsed Ahtisaari's plans to develop a comprehensive proposal for a status settlement.

So let's assume that the levels of independence go from 0 to 10, and according to Stefanovic Kosovo will never be more than, say, 6. And than what ? Should Kosovo feel better to go to 0 because they can't achieve the 10 ?!!!
(icj1, 18 February 2012 16:11)

No, I think he meant that the 'government' in Pristina should stop dreaming that Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country, realize that an UDI doesn't make you a state (even the ICJ said exactly that), stop living with the illusion that 'Kosovo's status is solved' but instead work on a mutually agreed solution, whatever it might look like.

In Belgrade on Friday, Serbia's chief negotiator in the ongoing Belgrade-Priština dialogue Borislav Stefanović, offered his view on the subject, saying that the country's diplomacy "prevented Kosovo from becoming fully independent, because it is not a completely internationally recognized state".
...yes DUDE you and your government is working hard every time and every same thing has a ending and kosovo is causing you billions in loses and still Kosovo will be a fully independent state and yes you country will be sued for crimes and destruction of the property during the war ...forgeting Serbian Army and MUB involvment in Kosovo ..in the time in court of law your government cant say as they say in case of bosnia we "didn't do it" !!??

It is a give and take ... process.
It seems that albanians only want to take.

From the very beginning Ahtisaari worked toward Kosovo independence, which had been promised for Albanians several years before.
(aaayyy, 17 February 2012 21:43)

Of course... the world works based on pragmatism
(icj)

Where is the world's pragmatism on RS and Northern Kosovo issues?

"Yawn, Klasiku, Serbia will eventually do what is best for Serbia"

winston, are you talking about the real Serbia, or the "Greater Serbia"?

You could do as you please, as long as it does not interfere with the internal affairs of the neighboring countries such as, Montenegro, Kosovo, Macedonia, and so on.

"Irrelevant of the number of countries that recognize Kosovo, said Stefanović, "that will not bring a truly high, desired level of independence, that the authorities in Priština want"."

This is so non-sense. No wonder Serbia always looses because people like this are in power.

So let's assume that the levels of independence go from 0 to 10, and according to Stefanovic Kosovo will never be more than, say, 6. And than what ? Should Kosovo feel better to go to 0 because they can't achieve the 10 ?!!!

Where is the world's pragmatism on RS and Northern Kosovo issues?
(aaayyy, 18 February 2012 21:08)

It's there. The way RS came to be, it is only through pragmatism. If it wasn't there wouldn't be any RS at all.
Northen Kosova- Pragmatism will only happen once the mentality of the Serb population changes. You guys behave as if gave us candy and flowers and didn't like them. Once you set the whole region on fire, you shouldn't be expecting anything. You should consider yourself lucky they had some mercy on you. You can't go around piss off half of the world and act as if nothing happened. Once you realize that, then you can expect pragmatism. Then you can also expect sympathy. Until then you should be treated, at best, the way they're treating you now.

"Thank you for your comment, but what is your main point? From the very beginning Ahtisaari worked toward Kosovo independence, which had been promised for Albanians several years before.
KAlbanians knew that eventually the West would support their independence, so it didn't make sense for them to actually negitiate with Serbia and make some compromise.
(aaayyy, 17 February 2012 21:43)"

You guys never learn, don't you.

Serbia had a chance to accept the Rambuillet solution, that would've kept Kosovo within Yugoslavia, but refused.

You lost a war as a result.

Serbia had a chance to fully participate, in the Ahtisaari dialogue, but the "Kosovo is Serbia" rhetoric didn't work again.

What do you expect, seriously? After your military machines killed thousands, you yet hope to ever rule those areas?

You all act like nothing happened, whereas one of the worst genocidal atrocities on the European continent since World War II was penetrated by Serbia in the Balkans in the 1990's.

I am sorry, this is reality, not a bad dream that you can wake up from. Serbia's current generation has been stigmatized by the actions of its leaders and will suffer as a result for years to come.

The collective ignorance puzzles me more than anything else. Man up and take responsibility! Apologize for once, for the sake of your future generations, so this stigma does not follow them into history!

"That's something that is evident as a confirmed fact every day. If that were not so, Brussels and Washington would not be exerting such pressure on Belgrade to recognize Kosovo. If that were not so, they would have recognized Kosovo, they would have created that state of theirs, do what they like, and everything would be alright. Well, everything is not alright as long as Serbia isn't recognizing Kosovo," DSS official and former Minister for Kosovo Slobodan Samardžić stated.

The EU doesn't recognize countries, since that is a sovereign power that each country has. However, 22 of the 27 EU countries (pretty much all the ones that are not teetering on the brink of collapse) have recognized Kosovo. As for Washington, they did recognize Kosovo immediately after the declaration of independence. Now, Washington and Brussels have "created that state of theirs," they do whatever they want, and everything is alright...

No, I think he meant that the 'government' in Pristina should stop dreaming that Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country,
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 17:04)

Of course; but Kosovo Serbs disagree and think that is not a dream; assuming of course that you are not saying that Kosovo Serbs are hallucinating and holding referendums about dreams :)
----------

realize that an UDI doesn't make you a state (even the ICJ said exactly that)
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 17:04)

The ICJ did not say that, unless of course you are referring to the Serbian version of the ICJ opinion.
----------

top living with the illusion that 'Kosovo's status is solved' but instead work on a mutually agreed solution, whatever it might look like.
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 17:04)

Well, for the people concerned, i.e. the Kosovo inhabitants, it is solved. If Zimbabwe or some other country think that is not solved, by all means they are free to go ahead and discuss about solutions among themselves, to eternity if they want :)
----------

Where is the world's pragmatism on RS and Northern Kosovo issues?
(aaayyy, 18 February 2012 21:08)

Is just there. Anything that the world is doing in respect to RS and Northern Kosovo that is not pragmatic ?!

Anyway, we were speaking about Kosovo; I think Kosovo Albanians couldn't care less about the world actions in regards to RS....

"Kosovo's status is solved' but instead work on a mutually agreed solution, whatever it might look like."

- No, mutual agreement can't be reached here. Serbia not only has broken the social contract but it has rapped and massacred it. Until Serbia realizes that, there is nothing to talk about. Especially since this current situation is 100 times better than any mutual agreement reached with Serbia. What Albanian in their right fvkng mind would want to live under Serbia, be it nominally or not. Look at the Serbs here. Who in their right mind would want to have Peggys, Winstons and Jovans make life altering decisions for them; even being suicidal that sort of thing doesn't fly. That is your average Serb for you. Now imagine the Kostunica's, Seseljs, Nikolic's that have that power; and these are not even the fringe thinkers in Serbia. These are your mainstream garden variety. Are you nuts to even suggest to us that we accommodate the will of these kind of people to alter our lives, to live under their power so we can make them happy? Until that species of people which comprises the masses today in Serbia has disappeared, a mutual decision is the worst decision possible. Several generations need to pass before there is even a slight chance that this sort of mentality that today suffocates Serbia, disappears. Until then the current situation is the best way forward.

P.S Tadic is no better. A hardcore nationalist hiding under the mask of a moderate. When the Jovanovic's are mainstream you may have a point. Until then...

Correct. Kosovo could apply.
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 13:22)

Great, that was my point that B92 was wrong.
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But even Thaci is smart enough not to even try it, to avoid the embarrassment to be refused, because Russia and China would veto it (just like the USA didn't allow Palestine to become an UN member, though they applied)
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 13:22)

The rest is speculation :)

No, I think he meant that the 'government' in Pristina should stop dreaming that Kosovo is an independent and sovereign country, realize that an UDI doesn't make you a state (even the ICJ said exactly that), stop living with the illusion that 'Kosovo's status is solved' but instead work on a mutually agreed solution, whatever it might look like.
(Analyst, 18 February 2012 17:04)

You're right and onto something that the ICJ stated a couple years ago. Kosovo's DOI didn't make it a country but the action that Pristina took and the recognitions that it is receiving increases the legitimate claims to govern Kosovars.

Since you're on a roll this "mutually agreed solution" has a name, and it's called the constitution (based on Ahtisaari Proposal). It's time to enforce it in all corners of Kosovo, from E-W, and N-S.

Sincerely,

"But Russian support for Serbia at the UN meant that Priština could not apply for membership in the world organization"

Now we also have a Serbian version of the UN charter (in addition to the Serbian versions of 1244, ICJ's opinion, etc). The English version of the UN charter says nowhere that Russia has the power to not allow applications for membership in the UN.

From the very beginning Ahtisaari worked toward Kosovo independence, which had been promised for Albanians several years before.
(aaayyy, 17 February 2012 21:43)

Of course... the world works based on pragmatism not memories of 600-year old battles. Given two options (a) forcing 2M Albanians back under Serbia or (b) Kosovo's independence, obviously (b) was much easier to achieve (it was not because the West loves Albanians or stupidities like that). In regards to status, Antisaari was faced with a fait accompli in 1999 - so his job was just to wake up some Serbs who were still dreaming in 2007 that Kosovo was part of Serbia because somebody wrote that in Serbia's Constitution LOL

B92, shouldn't there be a quote of how many posts you can make on any one subject?
This ICJ person seems to hijack every discussion here and just keeps post on and on and on.
I have never seen anyone suffering from so much verbal d**$@@ea in my life. Just wondering if others are happy to see him/her post multiple times on every subject.
(Peggy, 20 February 2012 02:58)

Sorry, Peggy... I'm trying to compete with the likes of Zoran, aayyyyy, sj... but it's hard LOL

But I do understand your point that opinions contrary to yours are not welcome :)

"The English version of the UN charter says nowhere that Russia has the power to not allow applications for membership in the UN."
(icj, 18 February 2012 03:32)

Correct. Kosovo could apply. But even Thaci is smart enough not to even try it, to avoid the embarrassment to be refused, because Russia and China would veto it (just like the USA didn't allow Palestine to become an UN member, though they applied)

Recognizing the risk of oversimplification, one could say that Serbs have been emotionally hurt because of Kosovo's separation. The Balkan's "inat" is in its full speed for sure. Keep in mind that as the old adage goes...the passage of time heals the wound and/or lessens the pain.

B92, shouldn't there be a quote of how many posts you can make on any one subject?
This ICJ person seems to hijack every discussion here and just keeps post on and on and on.
I have never seen anyone suffering from so much verbal d**$@@ea in my life. Just wondering if others are happy to see him/her post multiple times on every subject.