Russia, China back UN-led organ trafficking probe

'He noted that Marty's report implicates "some incumbent Kosovo officials".

The investigation must be impartial and instill confidence, which is why we ask that it be turned over the the UNSC, Churkin said.

"Right now the investigation into the involvement of Kosovo leaders is being conducted by the countries which, in the past, have helped these people come to power in Kosovo," he added.'

That's the US of A and Germany. Churkin is giving them a big slap here.

"We know the United States has a leading role in the investigation and that, what a coincidence, an American citizen (Clint Williamson) is in charge," Churkin added.'

Ouch, another slap! Well done Vitaly!!


'The Russian diplomat also talked about the bad situation in Kosovo when it comes to witness protection, which has been confirmed by the Council of Europe.'

The US and ze Germans don't like to talk about this or hear it, so thank you Vitaly for rubbing their nose in the truth.

"We call on UNSC member countries to support Serbia's proposal and set up an investigative mechanism under the auspices on the SC, which will guarantee neutrality," Churkin said.'

Hard to argue against that.

'The Russian ambassador expressed suspicions about the neutrality of KFOR and EULEX, criticizing their treatment of a Russian humanitarian convoy sent to the northern part of Kosovo.'

Indeed, the behaviour of KFOR and EULEX has been dispicable. They are basicaly acting as the army for the KLA organ snatchers.

'Churkin noted that Serbs continued to leave Kosovo and do not feel protected, and assessed that these issues, of key importance to security in Kosovo, have been only partially considered in the report by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.'

Partially considered. Yes, well ze Geeermans and the yanks want to keep it a secret that what is going on now is a slow ethnic cleansing of all Serbs from Kosovo. Luckily there are people like Churkin who are calling them out and spreading the truth. Churkin is making it very clear who the good guys are (Serbs) and who the bad guys are (the organ snatchers). Thank you Mr. Ambassador for spreading the truth. I wish I could say the same for the yellow traitors in power in Serbia, who are keeping quiet on all this. That was a very thorough b...h slapping excercise by Russia, well done!!
Cheers!!

The Chinese representative to the UN expressed "great concern" over the allegations of human organ trafficking in Kosovo, and said his country considered Serbia's concern to be justified. China supports the initiative for the United Nations to lead the investigation into the case. China what a pathetic fascist/Marxist joke Russia China just using it for their own wicked criminal political purposes to take the glaring light off their pathetic criminal doings http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/27/chinese-accused-of-vast-trade-in-organs/?page=all .

"We know the United States has a leading role in the investigation and that, what a coincidence, an American citizen (Clint Williamson) is in charge," Churkin added.


ok Mr Churkin, the entire Arab League, including all western countries is/are against the devil "Bashi Al Asad", yet you are siding with DEVIL, what we should expect of you?
No further comment.

To me it is very clear what China and Russia stand for. Look at their disgusted veto in the Security Council regarding the Al Asad regime. Dp they really care how many innocent people are killed. Not at all. They love autocratic/dictatorial regimes. Look at their friendly relationships with Cuba of Fidel Castro, Iran, Venezuela... That is what the world is facing. China a self declared (modern) communist country, a one party state and Russia of comrade Putin former KGB spy who supress its opponents. To me the Security Council is turned into a joke.

We all know that Russia and China do not vote based on existing realities, but more on reflexive attitude against West. Regime change in both China and Russia is needed for long lasting world peace.

(Dragan, 8 February 2012 21:58)
Do you not see Russia's reaction as the rest of the world. An attempt to draw attention away from its support for the murdering Syrian regime in contrast to the very countries that occupy that part of the world?
Russian and China veto of the Syrian resolution in opposition of the Arab league is heavily condemned by the USA. Russia's support for Serbia in view of the international documentation of the war crimes committed by Serbia only cements the position of Russia as a supporter of countries that use violence and cleansing of any opposing people to the regimes in charge. A reflection of Russia's internal return to the days of heavily KGB(of which Putin was a member) controlled state in which human rights do not exist.
Russia continues to make Kosovo an embarassment, highlighting the impotence of the former powerful country. It was unable to complete any military blocking to the western efforts in 1999. It has been unable to advance any agenda before the Security Council. It invaded Georgia trying to make the world think that Kosovo had spurred a seperatist movement globally, nothing happened and while Russia and one or two countries recognized the newly created countries, their band wagon remained pretty much empty. It uses rhetoric to condemn the west but has been forced to allow the control of Kosovo to shift to countries in the west. The UNSC meets once a quarter to discuss Kosovo but directives and policies are made by the EU(Eulex) and NATO(KFOR).
It is further embarassing itself with things like standing at the door waiting on permission to enter Kosovo and claiming it is delivering much needed humanitarian aid, and forcing the head of the UN to tell the world it is a sham, that there was NO humanitarian crisis in Kosovo at the time.
The best

What is notable is the laughable words coming from the Chinese delegation. It has been confirmed that all executed Chinese prisoners are disemboweled by their organs like animals. We are talking about up to 10 000 executed and there is no way the family can object to that. In the contrary, they even pay for the bullet which killed convict. Human organizations already noted that the usage of death sentences is many cases way out of proportion and fuels the suspicion that is only executed to keep the organ flow for the new rich Chinese upper class flowing, but also for the selling to foreign nation. In any way, it cannot be take serious what they say.

Short, pure charade.

Did anyone read the link Lenard provided?. OMG it's horrible.

It is a bit 'rich' of Russia and China getting involved in this issue. Russia is perhaps understandable, as the Orthodox church would be a major player in the row. China of course is simply involved because it is another opportunity to attack America.

Help those who may or may not have been involved to be exposed. Better still, find out first if a crime has been committed.


Kosova belongs to the people of Kosova. It always has done, and the fact they are ethnic Albanian is a fact of life. Serbia caused the conditions that led to the majority seeking to be independent. So they can't now complain that the people have said they want freedom.

not even those who have made this allegation have been able to show even the SMALLEST shred of proof to support their accusations. there's nothing in it

Kosova belongs to the people of Kosova. It always has done, and the fact they are ethnic Albanian is a fact of life. Serbia caused the conditions that led to the majority seeking to be independent. So they can't now complain that the people have said they want freedom.
(Pete Hodge, 9 February 2012 09:58)

Selective memory and falsification of history. You need a dose of truth Mr. Hodge, because you clearly don't have a clue. Albanians have been ethnicaly cleansing Serbs from Kosovo for decades, even centuries.

http://www.fair.org/extra/9905/kosovo.html

Bye the way, it's Kosovo, not Kosova. Kosova are Bantu speaking people who inhabit western Kenya.
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/Kosovo/kosova.html
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bantu-Kosova/144192295597992?sk=wiki
Kosovo is the cradle of Serbian civilization, and Albanians have no right to amputate it from Serbia, and they never will.
Cheers!!

I asked you to provide objective evidence to back what you have written so that we can all evaluate your assertions about China. You have not only not done so but instead now made more claims -- that China ha actually admitted partly about it. So, once again, are you able to substantiate all your claims? I would put it to you that you are unable to do so, which doesn't do anything for your credibility here.
(lowe, 9 February 2012 13:13)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8222732.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1411247.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5386720.stm

Those are from BBC only, but you can go to Amnesty International as well. There are actually plenty of useful sources. Here another:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2006/s1751561.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-14-death-van_x.htm

For more information, just check Google or Wikipedia. There is tons material.

"good to know... all I need to do in the future is to publish online a news report (say in twitter) from reliable sources (like sj's Malaysian friend). Thanks lowe for clarifying :)
(icj1, 11 February 2012 05:51)"

Don't you ever read anything carefully? I stated a RELIABLE online news report as an exmaple. So whether you will meet my requirements in the future would depend on whether I find your news report reliable enough.

By the way, how do you know that sj has a Malaysian friend who publishes news reports online? Can you show us evidence of online reports published by this person and that he/she is indeed sj's Malaysian friend? Thanks in advance!

Russia and China are supporting Syria. USA, Britain and France will veto any resolution.

The Albanians and their Croatian one man cheer squad are working overtime to discredit Russia and China.
Now THAT is pathetic and well as desperate.

"What is notable is the laughable words coming from the Chinese delegation. It has been confirmed that all executed Chinese prisoners are disemboweled by their organs like animals. We are talking about up to 10 000 executed and there is no way the family can object to that. In the contrary, they even pay for the bullet which killed convict. Human organizations already noted that the usage of death sentences is many cases way out of proportion and fuels the suspicion that is only executed to keep the organ flow for the new rich Chinese upper class flowing, but also for the selling to foreign nation. In any way, it cannot be take serious what they say.

Short, pure charade.
(Berk., 8 February 2012 22:51) "

Wow, such serious accusations from you -- "It has been confirmed that all executed Chinese prisoners are disemboweled by their organs like animals. We are talking about up to 10 000 executed ....." -- can you provide us with the proof (eg. a reliable online news report) to substantiate your claim so that we know for sure that what you say is not "pure charade"? Thanks in advance.

You're all used to invading other territories and bombing them because you believe that what you think is right, is right. Well the world has changed and you can't do this anymore, sorry.

Just like the US and NATO did in Libya. Where did that get anyone? Nowhere. Now it's run by extremists funded by Saudi Arabia. Thanks NATO. Once again your bombing campaign (outside your mandate) has ruined another country.
(trizo, 8 February 2012 23:58)

Trizo you are so pathetic and nervous that in this your short post contest yourself. You just say that NATO has done this in Libya. This happens 6 month before. So this 6 month has changed the world? But as I see in this type of wish_comments you have too many proSerb friends.
Friendly I suggest you a visit in Serbia, Kosova and Albania in order to be in touch with reality.

so all i've read here by the detractors of this initiative by russia and china is that they call russia and china bad, no fair world players, bullies etc. i wonder if these detractors are interested in truth or perceptions?
if there is nothing to be found by these investigations one would imagine a defendor against these alligations would be more than happy to encourage the investigation in order to vindicate themselves. if there is something to be found by these investigations then it is understandable why one would wish it never to see the light of day.

so i ask these haters of russia and china, without prediduce do you wish for truth or to further your own world view?

and every time i read a negative remark about either of these two nations i wonder if the author of said comment has bothered to investigate the current state of illegal and autrocious behavior of nato based nations. there was a time when most of the world recognized the western world as honorable, but alas times have changed, true attitudes of the west have changed (not the message, but the behavior) into what they were known to have once stood against.
secret prisons for people who are not convicted in a fair court, but rather simply accused.
popular protests are squashed with police forces through the use of "safe" violence and unconstitutional legal injections (in the us atleast)

Churkin is preparing the Russian response to the findings by claiming that if there isn't UNSC (i.e., Russian) involvement in an all-inclusive process, "there will always be questions." Meaning, they want all that "evidence" that the Serbian Special Prosecutor has accumulated and that Dick Marty said was useless to be disproved, newspaper article by newspaper article, while the Russians keep complaining in the UNSC about Eulex taking too long. Not to mention, letting in a lot of additional persons with an interest in how the case turns out may not be the best thing for a case where witness protection is supposed to be of prime importance.

Wow, such serious accusations from you -- "It has been confirmed that all executed Chinese prisoners are disemboweled by their organs like animals. We are talking about up to 10 000 executed ....." -- can you provide us with the proof (eg. a reliable online news report) to substantiate your claim so that we know for sure that what you say is not "pure charade"? Thanks in advance.
(lowe, 9 February 2012 04:06)

Organ trade in China is very active and even China admitted partly that there were abuses while still keeping the number of all execution a state secret. Since organs are used as a commodity, it is one of the reasons why China keeps a secret. There are plenty of reports, like this when where members of the Falungong religion have been used for organ extraction.

Like I said, China's hypocrisy is so obvious in that case. There are floods of proofs about organ harvesting in China and now Beijing wants to see an investigation in a case which has been checked several times with no results at all? Ridicilous.

"Stop bothering all of us with your silly requests as to proofs about organ snatching in China since YOU SERBS have not yet been able to show the beginning of the first slightest proof of that having happened in KS.

Where are ur proofs ???? except 2 pages of farytale in Del Ponte's book ...lol
(hans, 11 February 2012 04:54) "

How is it a silly request to seek clarification? And talking about silliness, isn't it utterly silly of you to assume thata anyone who asked about China is Serb????? And show me when did I ever produced "2 pages of farytale in Del Ponte's book"?????? The only one is into silliness here is none other than YOURSELF!

“Ah, Ok, I got it now… so you are the judge of reliability. So, if, hypothetically, I state that 1+1 = 2, you may or may not judge that as reliable and may require additional evidence. I should have thought about that – it’s indeed one of the jobs of a forum’s moderator :) “

If I had asked you to produce evidence, and assuming that you are able to produce them, then of course I shall judge whether your submissions are reliable or not. Other readers can also judge your evidence and come to their own conclusions too. Yes, judging is the job of forum moderators and they probably get paid to judge anyway. Readers like me however derive pleasure from evaluating evidence from you and others -- and I get a real kick each time I uncover flaws in the evidence and reveal them to other readers (and of course to B92’s moderators too who must have been impressed enough to publish them) -- won’t you agree that I’m just about the sweetest person around here?

“I did not say that sj’s Malaysian friend publishes news reports online. I said, *I* will publish news reports online and will use as a source sj’s reliable Malaysian friend :). So the whole thing will produce reliable news reports online LOL.
(icj1, 11 February 2012 19:53) “

Then we shall all look forward to your online publication of news reports – whether they are reliable or not is still left to be seen after we have evaluated them. By the way, I still don’t understand how “sj’s reliable Malaysian friend” will be your source who will provide your news reports with reliable evidence. He/She may be reliable as a friend to sj but not necessarily reliable when it comes to being a source who provides reliable evidence for your news report, right? And of course, you will also have to prove to our satisfaction that he/she is indeed both a Malaysian and sj’s reliable friend in the first place.

"Organ trade in China is very active and even China admitted partly that there were abuses while still keeping the number of all execution a state secret. Since organs are used as a commodity, it is one of the reasons why China keeps a secret. There are plenty of reports, like this when where members of the Falungong religion have been used for organ extraction.

Like I said, China's hypocrisy is so obvious in that case. There are floods of proofs about organ harvesting in China and now Beijing wants to see an investigation in a case which has been checked several times with no results at all? Ridicilous.
(Berk., 9 February 2012 12:22) "

I asked you to provide objective evidence to back what you have written so that we can all evaluate your assertions about China. You have not only not done so but instead now made more claims -- that China ha actually admitted partly about it. So, once again, are you able to substantiate all your claims? I would put it to you that you are unable to do so, which doesn't do anything for your credibility here.

WOw so many Albanians and Croatians coming here with western propaganda and hate speeches.

Actually, the only reason the violence in Syria is about to stop is because of the Russians. Even the opposition welcomes the Russian mediated dialogue with the Syrian government.

All of your western powers withdrew their ambassadors. Why? So they can start bombing them into oblivion? I suppose that is the norm for folk like you.

You're all used to invading other territories and bombing them because you believe that what you think is right, is right. Well the world has changed and you can't do this anymore, sorry.

Just like the US and NATO did in Libya. Where did that get anyone? Nowhere. Now it's run by extremists funded by Saudi Arabia. Thanks NATO. Once again your bombing campaign (outside your mandate) has ruined another country.

“[link]
[link]
[link]

Those are from BBC only, but you can go to Amnesty International as well. There are actually plenty of useful sources. Here another:

[link]
[link]

For more information, just check Google or Wikipedia. There is tons material.
(Berk., 9 February 2012 16:21)”

Thank you for your links, some of which were from 2006. While they do show that the organs of executed convicts were used, they do not show that these convicts were “only executed to keep the organ flow for the new rich Chinese upper class flowing” as alleged by you on 8 Feb.

While it is a point of debate whether a convict’s consent should be obtained before his/her organs are removed after execution, none of your links support your assertion that prisoners in China were executed solely for the purpose of selling their organs and not because their crimes required captial punishment.

"proof = reliable online news report ????!!!!!

sorry, but who is the judge of "reliability" of that "online news report" ?
(icj1, 10 February 2012 05:54) "

A reliable online news report is good enough for me if it supports all the points that Berk raised. I didn't say that it has to be good enough for you. Nor did I say that it must be the only type of proof that Berk must submit. You do know the meaning of "eg" which is the common short form for "example" in the English language, right? You are also free to ask Berk to give other types of proof if an online report ain't good enough for you, nobody stopping you as far as I'm aware. As for judging, obviously the individual readers will have to assess whatever that Berk submits and decide whether it is reliable.

(if i understand, 9 February 2012 17:07)
Let me ask you this question. If you knew that an investigation would lead no where but you wanted the issue to do the most damage possible, how would you go about that?
Maybe
1. Create doubt about the ability of the investigators.
2. Demand the investigation be shifted to other sections, causing great delays, and keeping the issue in the limelight.

3. Claiming to have evidence but refusing to share it for various reasons.

Russia and Serbia seem to have taken some pages out of the Clinton Whitewater investigation playbook. For more than 6 years there was an investigation and every few days we would hear of more compelling evidence being uncovered but they were unable to share the specifics. At the end of Clinton's presidency then it was disbanded with the statement..there was overwhelming evidence but we choose not to go forward at this time.

can you provide us with the proof (eg. a reliable online news report) to substantiate your claim so that we know for sure that what you say is not "pure charade"? Thanks in advance.
(lowe, 9 February 2012 04:06)

proof = reliable online news report ????!!!!!

sorry, but who is the judge of "reliability" of that "online news report" ?

I wonder if Russia and China would be open to forming an international Court on Human Organ Trafficking with jurisdiction in all UN member countries withthe ability to investigate and prosecute globally. If we are serious about this being a horrible crime, it is even more important to look into accusations of today more than what happened 13 years ago.
It could have prosecutors from each of the 5 permanent members with the restriction that each prosecutor is not in charge of cases related to their own country.
Hopefully we can get the US to suggest this and see how quickly the vetoes are reversed.

new day, though you paint a pretty picture full of conspiracies and treachery, if you are of the mindset that you're fighting a lie, then these examples of dragging through the mud don't really make a difference in the end. at the end of clinton's presidency people have forgotten about the false accusations the truth came out. see, clinton was remembered for what he did (moreover who he did) and not some woven web of lies.
so though you may have legitimate concerns about these organ trafficing investigations, i would suggest that if you know that they are false, and in fact they turn up to be wispers in the wind then no one will remember this, and it will fade away much like clinton's problems. if they are true, wouldn't you wish it to be exposed, have those individual monsters (not a whole state) thouroughly punished for their inhuman transgressions?

its one conspriacy after another on this site. and it seems that nobody truly cares for the truth.

i thank you for your mature response, but you offered me counter conspiracy theroies in stead of answering the basic question. is it truth or continuation of perception that you wish to promote? i'll agree that if it is all a conspriacy than certainly your imaginative points make perfect sense. i'm sure that there are other theories which might also fit the current state of information, but i still choose truth.

A reliable online news report is good enough for me if it supports all the points that Berk raised. I didn't say that it has to be good enough for you. Nor did I say that it must be the only type of proof that Berk must submit. You do know the meaning of "eg" which is the common short form for "example" in the English language, right? You are also free to ask Berk to give other types of proof if an online report ain't good enough for you, nobody stopping you as far as I'm aware. As for judging, obviously the individual readers will have to assess whatever that Berk submits and decide whether it is reliable.
(lowe, 10 February 2012 11:00)

Stop bothering all of us with your silly requests as to proofs about organ snatching in China since YOU SERBS have not yet been able to show the beginning of the first slightest proof of that having happened in KS.

Where are ur proofs ???? except 2 pages of farytale in Del Ponte's book ...lol

A reliable online news report is good enough for me if it supports all the points that Berk raised. I didn't say that it has to be good enough for you. Nor did I say that it must be the only type of proof that Berk must submit. You do know the meaning of "eg" which is the common short form for "example" in the English language, right? You are also free to ask Berk to give other types of proof if an online report ain't good enough for you, nobody stopping you as far as I'm aware. As for judging, obviously the individual readers will have to assess whatever that Berk submits and decide whether it is reliable.
(lowe, 10 February 2012 11:00)

good to know... all I need to do in the future is to publish online a news report (say in twitter) from reliable sources (like sj's Malaysian friend). Thanks lowe for clarifying :)

Don't you ever read anything carefully? I stated a RELIABLE online news report as an exmaple. So whether you will meet my requirements in the future would depend on whether I find your news report reliable enough.
(lowe, 11 February 2012 13:31)

Ah, Ok, I got it now… so you are the judge of reliability. So, if, hypothetically, I state that 1+1 = 2, you may or may not judge that as reliable and may require additional evidence. I should have thought about that – it’s indeed one of the jobs of a forum’s moderator :)
----------

By the way, how do you know that sj has a Malaysian friend who publishes news reports online? Can you show us evidence of online reports published by this person and that he/she is indeed sj's Malaysian friend? Thanks in advance!
(lowe, 11 February 2012 13:31)

I did not say that sj’s Malaysian friend publishes news reports online. I said, *I* will publish news reports online and will use as a source sj’s reliable Malaysian friend :). So the whole thing will produce reliable news reports online LOL.

The Chinese representative to the UN expressed "great concern" over the allegations of human organ trafficking in Kosovo, and said his country considered Serbia's concern to be justified. China supports the initiative for the United Nations to lead the investigation into the case. China what a pathetic fascist/Marxist joke Russia China just using it for their own wicked criminal political purposes to take the glaring light off their pathetic criminal doings http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/27/chinese-accused-of-vast-trade-in-organs/?page=all .

"We know the United States has a leading role in the investigation and that, what a coincidence, an American citizen (Clint Williamson) is in charge," Churkin added.


ok Mr Churkin, the entire Arab League, including all western countries is/are against the devil "Bashi Al Asad", yet you are siding with DEVIL, what we should expect of you?
No further comment.

To me it is very clear what China and Russia stand for. Look at their disgusted veto in the Security Council regarding the Al Asad regime. Dp they really care how many innocent people are killed. Not at all. They love autocratic/dictatorial regimes. Look at their friendly relationships with Cuba of Fidel Castro, Iran, Venezuela... That is what the world is facing. China a self declared (modern) communist country, a one party state and Russia of comrade Putin former KGB spy who supress its opponents. To me the Security Council is turned into a joke.

'He noted that Marty's report implicates "some incumbent Kosovo officials".

The investigation must be impartial and instill confidence, which is why we ask that it be turned over the the UNSC, Churkin said.

"Right now the investigation into the involvement of Kosovo leaders is being conducted by the countries which, in the past, have helped these people come to power in Kosovo," he added.'

That's the US of A and Germany. Churkin is giving them a big slap here.

"We know the United States has a leading role in the investigation and that, what a coincidence, an American citizen (Clint Williamson) is in charge," Churkin added.'

Ouch, another slap! Well done Vitaly!!


'The Russian diplomat also talked about the bad situation in Kosovo when it comes to witness protection, which has been confirmed by the Council of Europe.'

The US and ze Germans don't like to talk about this or hear it, so thank you Vitaly for rubbing their nose in the truth.

"We call on UNSC member countries to support Serbia's proposal and set up an investigative mechanism under the auspices on the SC, which will guarantee neutrality," Churkin said.'

Hard to argue against that.

'The Russian ambassador expressed suspicions about the neutrality of KFOR and EULEX, criticizing their treatment of a Russian humanitarian convoy sent to the northern part of Kosovo.'

Indeed, the behaviour of KFOR and EULEX has been dispicable. They are basicaly acting as the army for the KLA organ snatchers.

'Churkin noted that Serbs continued to leave Kosovo and do not feel protected, and assessed that these issues, of key importance to security in Kosovo, have been only partially considered in the report by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.'

Partially considered. Yes, well ze Geeermans and the yanks want to keep it a secret that what is going on now is a slow ethnic cleansing of all Serbs from Kosovo. Luckily there are people like Churkin who are calling them out and spreading the truth. Churkin is making it very clear who the good guys are (Serbs) and who the bad guys are (the organ snatchers). Thank you Mr. Ambassador for spreading the truth. I wish I could say the same for the yellow traitors in power in Serbia, who are keeping quiet on all this. That was a very thorough b...h slapping excercise by Russia, well done!!
Cheers!!

What is notable is the laughable words coming from the Chinese delegation. It has been confirmed that all executed Chinese prisoners are disemboweled by their organs like animals. We are talking about up to 10 000 executed and there is no way the family can object to that. In the contrary, they even pay for the bullet which killed convict. Human organizations already noted that the usage of death sentences is many cases way out of proportion and fuels the suspicion that is only executed to keep the organ flow for the new rich Chinese upper class flowing, but also for the selling to foreign nation. In any way, it cannot be take serious what they say.

Short, pure charade.

We all know that Russia and China do not vote based on existing realities, but more on reflexive attitude against West. Regime change in both China and Russia is needed for long lasting world peace.

not even those who have made this allegation have been able to show even the SMALLEST shred of proof to support their accusations. there's nothing in it

(Dragan, 8 February 2012 21:58)
Do you not see Russia's reaction as the rest of the world. An attempt to draw attention away from its support for the murdering Syrian regime in contrast to the very countries that occupy that part of the world?
Russian and China veto of the Syrian resolution in opposition of the Arab league is heavily condemned by the USA. Russia's support for Serbia in view of the international documentation of the war crimes committed by Serbia only cements the position of Russia as a supporter of countries that use violence and cleansing of any opposing people to the regimes in charge. A reflection of Russia's internal return to the days of heavily KGB(of which Putin was a member) controlled state in which human rights do not exist.
Russia continues to make Kosovo an embarassment, highlighting the impotence of the former powerful country. It was unable to complete any military blocking to the western efforts in 1999. It has been unable to advance any agenda before the Security Council. It invaded Georgia trying to make the world think that Kosovo had spurred a seperatist movement globally, nothing happened and while Russia and one or two countries recognized the newly created countries, their band wagon remained pretty much empty. It uses rhetoric to condemn the west but has been forced to allow the control of Kosovo to shift to countries in the west. The UNSC meets once a quarter to discuss Kosovo but directives and policies are made by the EU(Eulex) and NATO(KFOR).
It is further embarassing itself with things like standing at the door waiting on permission to enter Kosovo and claiming it is delivering much needed humanitarian aid, and forcing the head of the UN to tell the world it is a sham, that there was NO humanitarian crisis in Kosovo at the time.
The best

The Albanians and their Croatian one man cheer squad are working overtime to discredit Russia and China.
Now THAT is pathetic and well as desperate.

Don't you ever read anything carefully? I stated a RELIABLE online news report as an exmaple. So whether you will meet my requirements in the future would depend on whether I find your news report reliable enough.
(lowe, 11 February 2012 13:31)

Ah, Ok, I got it now… so you are the judge of reliability. So, if, hypothetically, I state that 1+1 = 2, you may or may not judge that as reliable and may require additional evidence. I should have thought about that – it’s indeed one of the jobs of a forum’s moderator :)
----------

By the way, how do you know that sj has a Malaysian friend who publishes news reports online? Can you show us evidence of online reports published by this person and that he/she is indeed sj's Malaysian friend? Thanks in advance!
(lowe, 11 February 2012 13:31)

I did not say that sj’s Malaysian friend publishes news reports online. I said, *I* will publish news reports online and will use as a source sj’s reliable Malaysian friend :). So the whole thing will produce reliable news reports online LOL.

Churkin is preparing the Russian response to the findings by claiming that if there isn't UNSC (i.e., Russian) involvement in an all-inclusive process, "there will always be questions." Meaning, they want all that "evidence" that the Serbian Special Prosecutor has accumulated and that Dick Marty said was useless to be disproved, newspaper article by newspaper article, while the Russians keep complaining in the UNSC about Eulex taking too long. Not to mention, letting in a lot of additional persons with an interest in how the case turns out may not be the best thing for a case where witness protection is supposed to be of prime importance.

"What is notable is the laughable words coming from the Chinese delegation. It has been confirmed that all executed Chinese prisoners are disemboweled by their organs like animals. We are talking about up to 10 000 executed and there is no way the family can object to that. In the contrary, they even pay for the bullet which killed convict. Human organizations already noted that the usage of death sentences is many cases way out of proportion and fuels the suspicion that is only executed to keep the organ flow for the new rich Chinese upper class flowing, but also for the selling to foreign nation. In any way, it cannot be take serious what they say.

Short, pure charade.
(Berk., 8 February 2012 22:51) "

Wow, such serious accusations from you -- "It has been confirmed that all executed Chinese prisoners are disemboweled by their organs like animals. We are talking about up to 10 000 executed ....." -- can you provide us with the proof (eg. a reliable online news report) to substantiate your claim so that we know for sure that what you say is not "pure charade"? Thanks in advance.

It is a bit 'rich' of Russia and China getting involved in this issue. Russia is perhaps understandable, as the Orthodox church would be a major player in the row. China of course is simply involved because it is another opportunity to attack America.

Help those who may or may not have been involved to be exposed. Better still, find out first if a crime has been committed.


Kosova belongs to the people of Kosova. It always has done, and the fact they are ethnic Albanian is a fact of life. Serbia caused the conditions that led to the majority seeking to be independent. So they can't now complain that the people have said they want freedom.

WOw so many Albanians and Croatians coming here with western propaganda and hate speeches.

Actually, the only reason the violence in Syria is about to stop is because of the Russians. Even the opposition welcomes the Russian mediated dialogue with the Syrian government.

All of your western powers withdrew their ambassadors. Why? So they can start bombing them into oblivion? I suppose that is the norm for folk like you.

You're all used to invading other territories and bombing them because you believe that what you think is right, is right. Well the world has changed and you can't do this anymore, sorry.

Just like the US and NATO did in Libya. Where did that get anyone? Nowhere. Now it's run by extremists funded by Saudi Arabia. Thanks NATO. Once again your bombing campaign (outside your mandate) has ruined another country.

"Organ trade in China is very active and even China admitted partly that there were abuses while still keeping the number of all execution a state secret. Since organs are used as a commodity, it is one of the reasons why China keeps a secret. There are plenty of reports, like this when where members of the Falungong religion have been used for organ extraction.

Like I said, China's hypocrisy is so obvious in that case. There are floods of proofs about organ harvesting in China and now Beijing wants to see an investigation in a case which has been checked several times with no results at all? Ridicilous.
(Berk., 9 February 2012 12:22) "

I asked you to provide objective evidence to back what you have written so that we can all evaluate your assertions about China. You have not only not done so but instead now made more claims -- that China ha actually admitted partly about it. So, once again, are you able to substantiate all your claims? I would put it to you that you are unable to do so, which doesn't do anything for your credibility here.

Kosova belongs to the people of Kosova. It always has done, and the fact they are ethnic Albanian is a fact of life. Serbia caused the conditions that led to the majority seeking to be independent. So they can't now complain that the people have said they want freedom.
(Pete Hodge, 9 February 2012 09:58)

Selective memory and falsification of history. You need a dose of truth Mr. Hodge, because you clearly don't have a clue. Albanians have been ethnicaly cleansing Serbs from Kosovo for decades, even centuries.

http://www.fair.org/extra/9905/kosovo.html

Bye the way, it's Kosovo, not Kosova. Kosova are Bantu speaking people who inhabit western Kenya.
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/Kosovo/kosova.html
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bantu-Kosova/144192295597992?sk=wiki
Kosovo is the cradle of Serbian civilization, and Albanians have no right to amputate it from Serbia, and they never will.
Cheers!!

I asked you to provide objective evidence to back what you have written so that we can all evaluate your assertions about China. You have not only not done so but instead now made more claims -- that China ha actually admitted partly about it. So, once again, are you able to substantiate all your claims? I would put it to you that you are unable to do so, which doesn't do anything for your credibility here.
(lowe, 9 February 2012 13:13)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8222732.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1411247.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5386720.stm

Those are from BBC only, but you can go to Amnesty International as well. There are actually plenty of useful sources. Here another:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2006/s1751561.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-14-death-van_x.htm

For more information, just check Google or Wikipedia. There is tons material.

A reliable online news report is good enough for me if it supports all the points that Berk raised. I didn't say that it has to be good enough for you. Nor did I say that it must be the only type of proof that Berk must submit. You do know the meaning of "eg" which is the common short form for "example" in the English language, right? You are also free to ask Berk to give other types of proof if an online report ain't good enough for you, nobody stopping you as far as I'm aware. As for judging, obviously the individual readers will have to assess whatever that Berk submits and decide whether it is reliable.
(lowe, 10 February 2012 11:00)

Stop bothering all of us with your silly requests as to proofs about organ snatching in China since YOU SERBS have not yet been able to show the beginning of the first slightest proof of that having happened in KS.

Where are ur proofs ???? except 2 pages of farytale in Del Ponte's book ...lol

Did anyone read the link Lenard provided?. OMG it's horrible.

so all i've read here by the detractors of this initiative by russia and china is that they call russia and china bad, no fair world players, bullies etc. i wonder if these detractors are interested in truth or perceptions?
if there is nothing to be found by these investigations one would imagine a defendor against these alligations would be more than happy to encourage the investigation in order to vindicate themselves. if there is something to be found by these investigations then it is understandable why one would wish it never to see the light of day.

so i ask these haters of russia and china, without prediduce do you wish for truth or to further your own world view?

and every time i read a negative remark about either of these two nations i wonder if the author of said comment has bothered to investigate the current state of illegal and autrocious behavior of nato based nations. there was a time when most of the world recognized the western world as honorable, but alas times have changed, true attitudes of the west have changed (not the message, but the behavior) into what they were known to have once stood against.
secret prisons for people who are not convicted in a fair court, but rather simply accused.
popular protests are squashed with police forces through the use of "safe" violence and unconstitutional legal injections (in the us atleast)

A reliable online news report is good enough for me if it supports all the points that Berk raised. I didn't say that it has to be good enough for you. Nor did I say that it must be the only type of proof that Berk must submit. You do know the meaning of "eg" which is the common short form for "example" in the English language, right? You are also free to ask Berk to give other types of proof if an online report ain't good enough for you, nobody stopping you as far as I'm aware. As for judging, obviously the individual readers will have to assess whatever that Berk submits and decide whether it is reliable.
(lowe, 10 February 2012 11:00)

good to know... all I need to do in the future is to publish online a news report (say in twitter) from reliable sources (like sj's Malaysian friend). Thanks lowe for clarifying :)

You're all used to invading other territories and bombing them because you believe that what you think is right, is right. Well the world has changed and you can't do this anymore, sorry.

Just like the US and NATO did in Libya. Where did that get anyone? Nowhere. Now it's run by extremists funded by Saudi Arabia. Thanks NATO. Once again your bombing campaign (outside your mandate) has ruined another country.
(trizo, 8 February 2012 23:58)

Trizo you are so pathetic and nervous that in this your short post contest yourself. You just say that NATO has done this in Libya. This happens 6 month before. So this 6 month has changed the world? But as I see in this type of wish_comments you have too many proSerb friends.
Friendly I suggest you a visit in Serbia, Kosova and Albania in order to be in touch with reality.

can you provide us with the proof (eg. a reliable online news report) to substantiate your claim so that we know for sure that what you say is not "pure charade"? Thanks in advance.
(lowe, 9 February 2012 04:06)

proof = reliable online news report ????!!!!!

sorry, but who is the judge of "reliability" of that "online news report" ?

Russia and China are supporting Syria. USA, Britain and France will veto any resolution.

Wow, such serious accusations from you -- "It has been confirmed that all executed Chinese prisoners are disemboweled by their organs like animals. We are talking about up to 10 000 executed ....." -- can you provide us with the proof (eg. a reliable online news report) to substantiate your claim so that we know for sure that what you say is not "pure charade"? Thanks in advance.
(lowe, 9 February 2012 04:06)

Organ trade in China is very active and even China admitted partly that there were abuses while still keeping the number of all execution a state secret. Since organs are used as a commodity, it is one of the reasons why China keeps a secret. There are plenty of reports, like this when where members of the Falungong religion have been used for organ extraction.

Like I said, China's hypocrisy is so obvious in that case. There are floods of proofs about organ harvesting in China and now Beijing wants to see an investigation in a case which has been checked several times with no results at all? Ridicilous.

(if i understand, 9 February 2012 17:07)
Let me ask you this question. If you knew that an investigation would lead no where but you wanted the issue to do the most damage possible, how would you go about that?
Maybe
1. Create doubt about the ability of the investigators.
2. Demand the investigation be shifted to other sections, causing great delays, and keeping the issue in the limelight.

3. Claiming to have evidence but refusing to share it for various reasons.

Russia and Serbia seem to have taken some pages out of the Clinton Whitewater investigation playbook. For more than 6 years there was an investigation and every few days we would hear of more compelling evidence being uncovered but they were unable to share the specifics. At the end of Clinton's presidency then it was disbanded with the statement..there was overwhelming evidence but we choose not to go forward at this time.

“[link]
[link]
[link]

Those are from BBC only, but you can go to Amnesty International as well. There are actually plenty of useful sources. Here another:

[link]
[link]

For more information, just check Google or Wikipedia. There is tons material.
(Berk., 9 February 2012 16:21)”

Thank you for your links, some of which were from 2006. While they do show that the organs of executed convicts were used, they do not show that these convicts were “only executed to keep the organ flow for the new rich Chinese upper class flowing” as alleged by you on 8 Feb.

While it is a point of debate whether a convict’s consent should be obtained before his/her organs are removed after execution, none of your links support your assertion that prisoners in China were executed solely for the purpose of selling their organs and not because their crimes required captial punishment.

I wonder if Russia and China would be open to forming an international Court on Human Organ Trafficking with jurisdiction in all UN member countries withthe ability to investigate and prosecute globally. If we are serious about this being a horrible crime, it is even more important to look into accusations of today more than what happened 13 years ago.
It could have prosecutors from each of the 5 permanent members with the restriction that each prosecutor is not in charge of cases related to their own country.
Hopefully we can get the US to suggest this and see how quickly the vetoes are reversed.

"proof = reliable online news report ????!!!!!

sorry, but who is the judge of "reliability" of that "online news report" ?
(icj1, 10 February 2012 05:54) "

A reliable online news report is good enough for me if it supports all the points that Berk raised. I didn't say that it has to be good enough for you. Nor did I say that it must be the only type of proof that Berk must submit. You do know the meaning of "eg" which is the common short form for "example" in the English language, right? You are also free to ask Berk to give other types of proof if an online report ain't good enough for you, nobody stopping you as far as I'm aware. As for judging, obviously the individual readers will have to assess whatever that Berk submits and decide whether it is reliable.

new day, though you paint a pretty picture full of conspiracies and treachery, if you are of the mindset that you're fighting a lie, then these examples of dragging through the mud don't really make a difference in the end. at the end of clinton's presidency people have forgotten about the false accusations the truth came out. see, clinton was remembered for what he did (moreover who he did) and not some woven web of lies.
so though you may have legitimate concerns about these organ trafficing investigations, i would suggest that if you know that they are false, and in fact they turn up to be wispers in the wind then no one will remember this, and it will fade away much like clinton's problems. if they are true, wouldn't you wish it to be exposed, have those individual monsters (not a whole state) thouroughly punished for their inhuman transgressions?

its one conspriacy after another on this site. and it seems that nobody truly cares for the truth.

i thank you for your mature response, but you offered me counter conspiracy theroies in stead of answering the basic question. is it truth or continuation of perception that you wish to promote? i'll agree that if it is all a conspriacy than certainly your imaginative points make perfect sense. i'm sure that there are other theories which might also fit the current state of information, but i still choose truth.

"Stop bothering all of us with your silly requests as to proofs about organ snatching in China since YOU SERBS have not yet been able to show the beginning of the first slightest proof of that having happened in KS.

Where are ur proofs ???? except 2 pages of farytale in Del Ponte's book ...lol
(hans, 11 February 2012 04:54) "

How is it a silly request to seek clarification? And talking about silliness, isn't it utterly silly of you to assume thata anyone who asked about China is Serb????? And show me when did I ever produced "2 pages of farytale in Del Ponte's book"?????? The only one is into silliness here is none other than YOURSELF!

"good to know... all I need to do in the future is to publish online a news report (say in twitter) from reliable sources (like sj's Malaysian friend). Thanks lowe for clarifying :)
(icj1, 11 February 2012 05:51)"

Don't you ever read anything carefully? I stated a RELIABLE online news report as an exmaple. So whether you will meet my requirements in the future would depend on whether I find your news report reliable enough.

By the way, how do you know that sj has a Malaysian friend who publishes news reports online? Can you show us evidence of online reports published by this person and that he/she is indeed sj's Malaysian friend? Thanks in advance!

“Ah, Ok, I got it now… so you are the judge of reliability. So, if, hypothetically, I state that 1+1 = 2, you may or may not judge that as reliable and may require additional evidence. I should have thought about that – it’s indeed one of the jobs of a forum’s moderator :) “

If I had asked you to produce evidence, and assuming that you are able to produce them, then of course I shall judge whether your submissions are reliable or not. Other readers can also judge your evidence and come to their own conclusions too. Yes, judging is the job of forum moderators and they probably get paid to judge anyway. Readers like me however derive pleasure from evaluating evidence from you and others -- and I get a real kick each time I uncover flaws in the evidence and reveal them to other readers (and of course to B92’s moderators too who must have been impressed enough to publish them) -- won’t you agree that I’m just about the sweetest person around here?

“I did not say that sj’s Malaysian friend publishes news reports online. I said, *I* will publish news reports online and will use as a source sj’s reliable Malaysian friend :). So the whole thing will produce reliable news reports online LOL.
(icj1, 11 February 2012 19:53) “

Then we shall all look forward to your online publication of news reports – whether they are reliable or not is still left to be seen after we have evaluated them. By the way, I still don’t understand how “sj’s reliable Malaysian friend” will be your source who will provide your news reports with reliable evidence. He/She may be reliable as a friend to sj but not necessarily reliable when it comes to being a source who provides reliable evidence for your news report, right? And of course, you will also have to prove to our satisfaction that he/she is indeed both a Malaysian and sj’s reliable friend in the first place.