13th anniversary of Rambouillet conference

Serbs thought Rambouillet conference is a joke. They laughed then. Now who's laughing?

...and let the conspiracy theories commence....

Serbia's 13-member delegation was headed by then Deputy PM Ratko Marković, while the Kosovo Albanian delegation was led by one of the commanders of the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) and current Prime Minister of Kosovo Hashim Thaci.

I have a question for the editor. What's the connotation behind the suffix "so-called" that you put in front of Kosovo Liberation Army? Are you doubting that it was called that way? Or do you think that by adding this suffix it will make the organization (KLA) less important? If any of these is true, then perhaps your mastering of English is in doubt.

" Today marks 13 years since the start of the unsuccessful international conference dedicated to the Kosovo crisis held in Chateau Rambouillet near Paris"

Shouldn't be that chateau bombed (humanitarian way, of course) and burned like the churches in Kosovo? If French do complain - they should ask Kouchner. Wouldn't be nice to see a smoking nuclear crater where that chateau used to be? Hope, who wold die - wold do that very-very humanitarian and very-very merciful way, like the bombing of Yugoslavia. Who would survive, would receive a pair of merciful, humanitarian rusty spoons. ;)

This conference was 'unsuccesful' since it was planned to fail. First of all Yugoslavia was confronted with Thaci as the representative of the Albanians instead of this moderate guy and at the last moment (when Serbs were about to agree to the agreement) there was the condition that Yugoslavia should open its territory and all her militrary facilities to unlimited access of Nato. That would have amounted to an occupation and no one would agree to that.

NATO representatives willingly admitted that the conditions for Yugoslavia were composed to surely being refused by YU.

Darn, I forgot the word "democratic", so all that (bombs, nukes, rusty spoons) have to be not only humanitarian and merciful - but of course, democratic, too.

So please read: democratic, merciful, humanitarian nuking and burning of the chateau and the survivors given democratic, merciful and humanitarian rusty spoons. Now that's really perfectly in the spirit of the conference: democratic, humanitarian and merciful spirit. Started with Indians in America, than Mexicans of California, than Dresden, than Hirishima, than Nagasaki, than Korea, than napalm bombing of VietNam: all humanitarian, merciful, democratic actions. ;)

They wanted to bomb us. This was like the 1914 Austrohungarian ultimatum, where conditions were given which were meant to be rejected by us, because they conditions of the ultimatum were totally unacceptable. Just like in 1914 we gave a counter offer which was very fair, but when the West wants to destroy an innocent country they will destroy.

This conference was 'unsuccesful' since it was planned to fail. First of all Yugoslavia was confronted with Thaci as the representative of the Albanians instead of this moderate guy (Joe A, 6 February 2012 13:13)

Ridiculous comment, Ibrahim Rugova persued a course of passive, peaceful resistance to Serbian tyranny for years. All that got him was a revocation of autonomy and further deterioration of the Albanian population at the hands of Serbia's ethnic cleansing policy.

...and let the conspiracy theories commence....
(Nikolle, 6 February 2012 13:58)
--
Check -> http://paranormalutopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ConspiracySheep.jpg

Are you sure it is 86 countries, whenever did it reach this figure. I do believe it is rather inflated.

If any of these is true, then perhaps your mastering of English is in doubt.
(miri, 6 February 2012 18:25)
--
Personally, I think it should have said "the Kosovo Terrorist Army (KTA) and current mafia boss of Kosovo Hashim Thaci."

Now that would be more accurate.

It is true that one of the requests was access to all the space of FRY. This was included in the document that was sent to Belgrade. However, those requests were never discussed by the Serbian delegation. The reply from the Serbian delegation was not: "look, you need to remove this request because unacceptable, then we can talk". Rather, that document was returned to Rambouillet with whole paragraphs blackened out, whole sentences changed to the opposite of what was in the original. A sort of "screw you" at the last moment from Belgrade. Some may call it pride, some may call it arrogance, it depends on the point of view. Only thing is that Russians too had participated in compiling the original version, so that was a "screw you" to the Russians as well. And I can imagine that had been a long and painful work on what words to put and so on, all wasted. "Part of the Serbian team was visibly embarrassed" writes Tim Judah in his book "Kosovo: War and Revenge". Milosevic had decided to try its fate and that of his people as well. It did not go well.

Very nice book by the way. Explains really well what went on at Rambouillet, the divisions in the Albanian team, Thaci almost crying at some points, the Serb delegation playing the piano loudly all night long, the reduction in the choice of cheeses for the delegates towards the end to take them by hunger and make them sign, the poor doctoral law student who was requested to join the Albanian team by members of the KLA because the lawyers of Bukoshi, Rugova and the LDK were not trusted, the threats of Adem Demaci from Kosovo, the threatening phone calls by unknown people to fund collectors of the KLA around the world to push Thaci to sign otherwise sh.t would happen, and other interesting details.

Reader, you are dead wrong. The Serbs said that what was offered was not acceptable because of the various outrageous things in it. They offered full autonomy to the Albanians, and many concessions. Further, the Serbs wanted a UN force to be there, not a NATO force. The Serbian side offered a very nice package, but the West wanted to bomb. In fact the West admits that it set the conditions to be unreasonable in the first place. They admitted that!

As for Judah, the guy is an idiot. I read some of his stuff. He's right about some stuff and insane about others. Keep in mind that he is part of the popular press, and so his primary goal is to write a nice story that sells. One example is that in his book the Serbs he purposely lied that the economy was doing great in 1990 under markovic who who was that guy... the economy in fact was screwed and continuing down in a spiral!

The reply from the Serbian delegation was not: "look, you need to remove this request because unacceptable, then we can talk".
(Reader)

It was said by the West that the ultimatum was unchangable. One was either to sign it as a whole or reject it as a whole.

At first Thaci refused to sign the accord. If the Western side had been honest negotiator, they would have said "OK, you don't want to sign, then we wash our hands, please continue fighting". But eventually Thaci was made to sign the "peace proposal" by Albright who came to Rambuilette with special purpose to persuade Thaci to agree with the conditions, because the Western goal was to get Albanian agreement and bomb Serbia.

I have a question for the editor. What's the connotation behind the suffix "so-called" that you put in front of Kosovo Liberation Army? Are you doubting that it was called that way? Or do you think that by adding this suffix it will make the organization (KLA) less important? If any of these is true, then perhaps your mastering of English is in doubt.
(miri, 6 February 2012 18:25)
==========================
Or maybe there is a third reason and that is KLA was not a liberation army but a terrorist organisation.

At first Thaci refused to sign the accord. If the Western side had been honest negotiator, they would have said "OK, you don't want to sign, then we wash our hands, please continue fighting". But eventually Thaci was made to sign the "peace proposal" by Albright who came to Rambuilette with special purpose to persuade Thaci to agree with the conditions, because the Western goal was to get Albanian agreement and bomb Serbia.
(aaayyy, 7 February 2012 16:52)
That is exactly what they did, either you sign if you want our continued support. That was the pressure used to get Thaci to sign. Your post makes no sense.

Rambouillet was a joke. All you need to do is read Appendix B. What is stipulates there is the same as what is written in the NATO association agreement, i.e. conditions you agree to when joining NATO. Now why would it be demanded that Serbia aceede to such conditions when it had no interest in joining NATO. As Albright admitted off the record to reporters, "the bar was deliberately set too high" for the serbs to agree.

Reader, you are wrong on many points. Rambulliet had nothing with the UN, only NATO. It was an occupation force where Serbia was to pay to be converted into a NATO colony. No thanks! Nobody will sign that.

You speak of bombing from the air referring to lives of Western soldiers as precious. I guess you don't consider our thousands of civilians who were killed to be precious. Interesting morals you got there.

The Western goal was not to stop any mess. It was to make the mess worse. The West was funding the KLA with great enthusiasm.

Go ahead and read appendix B. That was in there so that everyone in their right mind would reject it. It was designed with the goal for the serbs to reject it, and the West admitted that!

The goal was not peace, the goal was bombing civilian targets. You have to accept that. Just because you like someone does not mean that they always do good things. Open your eyes. The West did huge crimes against humanity in 1999! Not just there, but in helping escalate the horror that the Turks (a nato member) were doing against the kurds.

aaayyy,

that is incorrect. The Western goal was to stop the mess. It was tried in Autumn 1998 with an agreement with no troops on the ground. Only the KDOM observers were there but they did not have any power other than observing and they ended up mediating hostage releases among Serbs and Albanian local populations. It did not work because it was not enforceable. So, the whole point of Rambouillet was to get an agreement with troops on the ground that can enforce it and that can keep the two parties under control and separated. UN troops with a NATO core. Not just useless UN troops as in Bosnia. This was asked of Serbia. To the Albanians it was asked to renounce/postpone the independence claims and to have the KLA disarmed. In the end the mention of the independence was removed and postponed to something undefined in the future. Madeleine Albright went to Rambouillet to precisely force Thaci to do this: sign a vague document that did not mention independence and that would have the KLA disarmed. Otherwise the Albanian would be left to their own fate at the hands of people like Milosevic and Seselj. The KLA would have disappeared. That threat was made to Thaci. That is why he almost lost it under the pressure. His people on the ground would not accept those two points. The point on access to the whole of FRY was a small detail with respect to the main point: troops in Kosovo to enforce the agreement. Nobody in their right mind would have asked to actually keep NATO ground troops in, say, Belgrade. Even the war was fought only from the air not to have precious Western lives lost. Imagine some newspaper headlines of that possible scenario: "20 US soldiers die from an explosion in Belgrade, 30 German soldiers dead during armed fights with Serb 'patriots' in Novi Sad". It makes no sense. In the book I am taking all this from, NATO people said: "of course we would have removed that clause". Only it never got to that.

They wanted to bomb us. This was like the 1914 Austrohungarian ultimatum, where conditions were given which were meant to be rejected by us, because they conditions of the ultimatum were totally unacceptable. Just like in 1914 we gave a counter offer which was very fair, but when the West wants to destroy an innocent country they will destroy.

Darn, I forgot the word "democratic", so all that (bombs, nukes, rusty spoons) have to be not only humanitarian and merciful - but of course, democratic, too.

So please read: democratic, merciful, humanitarian nuking and burning of the chateau and the survivors given democratic, merciful and humanitarian rusty spoons. Now that's really perfectly in the spirit of the conference: democratic, humanitarian and merciful spirit. Started with Indians in America, than Mexicans of California, than Dresden, than Hirishima, than Nagasaki, than Korea, than napalm bombing of VietNam: all humanitarian, merciful, democratic actions. ;)

Are you sure it is 86 countries, whenever did it reach this figure. I do believe it is rather inflated.

" Today marks 13 years since the start of the unsuccessful international conference dedicated to the Kosovo crisis held in Chateau Rambouillet near Paris"

Shouldn't be that chateau bombed (humanitarian way, of course) and burned like the churches in Kosovo? If French do complain - they should ask Kouchner. Wouldn't be nice to see a smoking nuclear crater where that chateau used to be? Hope, who wold die - wold do that very-very humanitarian and very-very merciful way, like the bombing of Yugoslavia. Who would survive, would receive a pair of merciful, humanitarian rusty spoons. ;)

If any of these is true, then perhaps your mastering of English is in doubt.
(miri, 6 February 2012 18:25)
--
Personally, I think it should have said "the Kosovo Terrorist Army (KTA) and current mafia boss of Kosovo Hashim Thaci."

Now that would be more accurate.

Serbia's 13-member delegation was headed by then Deputy PM Ratko Marković, while the Kosovo Albanian delegation was led by one of the commanders of the so-called Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) and current Prime Minister of Kosovo Hashim Thaci.

I have a question for the editor. What's the connotation behind the suffix "so-called" that you put in front of Kosovo Liberation Army? Are you doubting that it was called that way? Or do you think that by adding this suffix it will make the organization (KLA) less important? If any of these is true, then perhaps your mastering of English is in doubt.

This conference was 'unsuccesful' since it was planned to fail. First of all Yugoslavia was confronted with Thaci as the representative of the Albanians instead of this moderate guy and at the last moment (when Serbs were about to agree to the agreement) there was the condition that Yugoslavia should open its territory and all her militrary facilities to unlimited access of Nato. That would have amounted to an occupation and no one would agree to that.

NATO representatives willingly admitted that the conditions for Yugoslavia were composed to surely being refused by YU.

...and let the conspiracy theories commence....
(Nikolle, 6 February 2012 13:58)
--
Check -> http://paranormalutopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ConspiracySheep.jpg

I have a question for the editor. What's the connotation behind the suffix "so-called" that you put in front of Kosovo Liberation Army? Are you doubting that it was called that way? Or do you think that by adding this suffix it will make the organization (KLA) less important? If any of these is true, then perhaps your mastering of English is in doubt.
(miri, 6 February 2012 18:25)
==========================
Or maybe there is a third reason and that is KLA was not a liberation army but a terrorist organisation.

Serbs thought Rambouillet conference is a joke. They laughed then. Now who's laughing?

...and let the conspiracy theories commence....

It is true that one of the requests was access to all the space of FRY. This was included in the document that was sent to Belgrade. However, those requests were never discussed by the Serbian delegation. The reply from the Serbian delegation was not: "look, you need to remove this request because unacceptable, then we can talk". Rather, that document was returned to Rambouillet with whole paragraphs blackened out, whole sentences changed to the opposite of what was in the original. A sort of "screw you" at the last moment from Belgrade. Some may call it pride, some may call it arrogance, it depends on the point of view. Only thing is that Russians too had participated in compiling the original version, so that was a "screw you" to the Russians as well. And I can imagine that had been a long and painful work on what words to put and so on, all wasted. "Part of the Serbian team was visibly embarrassed" writes Tim Judah in his book "Kosovo: War and Revenge". Milosevic had decided to try its fate and that of his people as well. It did not go well.

Very nice book by the way. Explains really well what went on at Rambouillet, the divisions in the Albanian team, Thaci almost crying at some points, the Serb delegation playing the piano loudly all night long, the reduction in the choice of cheeses for the delegates towards the end to take them by hunger and make them sign, the poor doctoral law student who was requested to join the Albanian team by members of the KLA because the lawyers of Bukoshi, Rugova and the LDK were not trusted, the threats of Adem Demaci from Kosovo, the threatening phone calls by unknown people to fund collectors of the KLA around the world to push Thaci to sign otherwise sh.t would happen, and other interesting details.

This conference was 'unsuccesful' since it was planned to fail. First of all Yugoslavia was confronted with Thaci as the representative of the Albanians instead of this moderate guy (Joe A, 6 February 2012 13:13)

Ridiculous comment, Ibrahim Rugova persued a course of passive, peaceful resistance to Serbian tyranny for years. All that got him was a revocation of autonomy and further deterioration of the Albanian population at the hands of Serbia's ethnic cleansing policy.

Reader, you are dead wrong. The Serbs said that what was offered was not acceptable because of the various outrageous things in it. They offered full autonomy to the Albanians, and many concessions. Further, the Serbs wanted a UN force to be there, not a NATO force. The Serbian side offered a very nice package, but the West wanted to bomb. In fact the West admits that it set the conditions to be unreasonable in the first place. They admitted that!

As for Judah, the guy is an idiot. I read some of his stuff. He's right about some stuff and insane about others. Keep in mind that he is part of the popular press, and so his primary goal is to write a nice story that sells. One example is that in his book the Serbs he purposely lied that the economy was doing great in 1990 under markovic who who was that guy... the economy in fact was screwed and continuing down in a spiral!

aaayyy,

that is incorrect. The Western goal was to stop the mess. It was tried in Autumn 1998 with an agreement with no troops on the ground. Only the KDOM observers were there but they did not have any power other than observing and they ended up mediating hostage releases among Serbs and Albanian local populations. It did not work because it was not enforceable. So, the whole point of Rambouillet was to get an agreement with troops on the ground that can enforce it and that can keep the two parties under control and separated. UN troops with a NATO core. Not just useless UN troops as in Bosnia. This was asked of Serbia. To the Albanians it was asked to renounce/postpone the independence claims and to have the KLA disarmed. In the end the mention of the independence was removed and postponed to something undefined in the future. Madeleine Albright went to Rambouillet to precisely force Thaci to do this: sign a vague document that did not mention independence and that would have the KLA disarmed. Otherwise the Albanian would be left to their own fate at the hands of people like Milosevic and Seselj. The KLA would have disappeared. That threat was made to Thaci. That is why he almost lost it under the pressure. His people on the ground would not accept those two points. The point on access to the whole of FRY was a small detail with respect to the main point: troops in Kosovo to enforce the agreement. Nobody in their right mind would have asked to actually keep NATO ground troops in, say, Belgrade. Even the war was fought only from the air not to have precious Western lives lost. Imagine some newspaper headlines of that possible scenario: "20 US soldiers die from an explosion in Belgrade, 30 German soldiers dead during armed fights with Serb 'patriots' in Novi Sad". It makes no sense. In the book I am taking all this from, NATO people said: "of course we would have removed that clause". Only it never got to that.

The reply from the Serbian delegation was not: "look, you need to remove this request because unacceptable, then we can talk".
(Reader)

It was said by the West that the ultimatum was unchangable. One was either to sign it as a whole or reject it as a whole.

At first Thaci refused to sign the accord. If the Western side had been honest negotiator, they would have said "OK, you don't want to sign, then we wash our hands, please continue fighting". But eventually Thaci was made to sign the "peace proposal" by Albright who came to Rambuilette with special purpose to persuade Thaci to agree with the conditions, because the Western goal was to get Albanian agreement and bomb Serbia.

Rambouillet was a joke. All you need to do is read Appendix B. What is stipulates there is the same as what is written in the NATO association agreement, i.e. conditions you agree to when joining NATO. Now why would it be demanded that Serbia aceede to such conditions when it had no interest in joining NATO. As Albright admitted off the record to reporters, "the bar was deliberately set too high" for the serbs to agree.

At first Thaci refused to sign the accord. If the Western side had been honest negotiator, they would have said "OK, you don't want to sign, then we wash our hands, please continue fighting". But eventually Thaci was made to sign the "peace proposal" by Albright who came to Rambuilette with special purpose to persuade Thaci to agree with the conditions, because the Western goal was to get Albanian agreement and bomb Serbia.
(aaayyy, 7 February 2012 16:52)
That is exactly what they did, either you sign if you want our continued support. That was the pressure used to get Thaci to sign. Your post makes no sense.

Reader, you are wrong on many points. Rambulliet had nothing with the UN, only NATO. It was an occupation force where Serbia was to pay to be converted into a NATO colony. No thanks! Nobody will sign that.

You speak of bombing from the air referring to lives of Western soldiers as precious. I guess you don't consider our thousands of civilians who were killed to be precious. Interesting morals you got there.

The Western goal was not to stop any mess. It was to make the mess worse. The West was funding the KLA with great enthusiasm.

Go ahead and read appendix B. That was in there so that everyone in their right mind would reject it. It was designed with the goal for the serbs to reject it, and the West admitted that!

The goal was not peace, the goal was bombing civilian targets. You have to accept that. Just because you like someone does not mean that they always do good things. Open your eyes. The West did huge crimes against humanity in 1999! Not just there, but in helping escalate the horror that the Turks (a nato member) were doing against the kurds.