Russians brave cold in pro- and anti-Putin rallies

I live in Moscow and I too dislike many things happening here. I thought of attending one of the rallies but failed to choose one. Both on Bolotnaya and Poklonnaya there were politicians whom I respect. Bolotnaya rally called for bigger changes and it is exactly what I think. But the organizers are liberals mud with cooperation with the West. Though the Communists and some other patriots joined them I feel never dying disgust and hatred to those who has destroyed my country. So I sustained from going there.

On my way to my job ( we work on Saturdays) there was a very big plug because of the rally on Poklonnaya. Rap music and multiple policemen showed it was serious. But I support only the foreign policy of Mr.Putin and dislike the internal one. So I changed my route and went to my office. By the way the meeting here had been advertised as an anti orange one. Here it sounds as Anti American. And many of the interviewed said they were not going to vote for Putin. But in the evening all of them were declared to support Putin.
I think both of the rallies were attended by about equal crowds of about 100 000 men. Though Putin publicly estimated it as 140 000 – 190 000 against 34 000 in his favor. Viewed from helicopters the rallies were equal. On Poklonnaya there was more space and they stood free while on Bolotnaya people had to stand much closer. Besides on Bolotnaya they all were free in their choice while at pro Putin rally many were obliged to attend. But in any case the West has zero chances in Russia. They have discredited themselves here for decades and even on Bolotnaya patriots composed the absolute majority.

I did not see any mention of the pro-Putin supporters in the western propaganda today. The real idiots are those anti-Putin supporters who showed up to the freezing rally and weren't paid american dollars for their service to the usa. america relies on such morons in light of its national debt.

"pro- and anti-Putin rallies"

Putin as a "liberal democrat" is facing against "progressive liberals"


Communists are funny, they can come up with so many names that are all the same receipt for a totalitarian control since the marxist days.

20 million less people in 20 years really shows the silent death and genocide attrition in that dictatorship.

"The average salary in Moscow is about three times what an average salary in Hungary is.
(Ataman, 5 February 2012 11:15)

This might be true, but you cannot compare the average salary in Moscow is not the average Salary in Russia. If you look at the whole country, it's quite the opposite: Hungarian salary about twice the average of Russia. If you compare the average salary of London instead of whole GB, the numbers are misleading.

It should be up to Russians what their future government may be. But note relations between the White House and the Kremlin are so bad now, the American government outlets and their followers (much of the mainstream media) are rigidly anti-Putin and unreliable. Here's an example : Radio Free Europe/ Radio Liberty deliberately inverted numbers from a BBC report to inflate the opposition numbers and minimize the pro-Putin crowd just today. Although less dishonest than that, the American press has generally swallowed whole whatever Westernized "Russian" liberals tell them in Moscow cafes. Of course, the Russian press swallowed for too long the fantasy that Obama sought a real "re-set" and penned all sorts of warm nonsense about him. The American government is now actively trying to overthrow Putin. It's too open to miss. They're spending millions. It won't work. In fact, the blundering effort is just helping Putin. Maybe the Kremlin should send Ron Paul some money and trained agitators. Just sadly kidding.

That's all nice but is there any alternative to Putin aside from the kooky Communists, the dimwitted "liberals", the drunken Zhirinovskys, or the crazy "National Bolsheviks"? Don't call for the end of the regime if you have nothing intelligent to replace it with :)

"Up to 138,000 took part in the pro-Putin rally just a few kilometers away, police said. The Kremlin has a reputation of boosting their numbers in protests by bussing in sympathizers from surrounding areas, and teachers have said trade unions pressured them to turn out in support of Putin."

Must sound familiar to people from ex-YU, where a former president used the very same methods for the organized 'rallies'.

Don't call for the end of the regime if you have nothing intelligent to replace it with :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 4 February 2012 20:20)

That is precisely the problem. I did watch the TV (obviously!) and at one point there was a young man very energically supporting Putin. I really do not like Putin but there was something the man said I have no answer for. He said, he just married and want children and he wants someone who can promise him stability and that he can plan his future.

I might have some ideas but I can't promise him what he wants. The current regime - as bad or immoral it could be (from my point of view) - does already deliver what he wants. That pretty much mean I have to bow to the majority and that's it.

@Szemi: the Russian-Polish-Ukrainian-Jewish relations had their ups and downs in last few hundred years, my position is to have an open dialogue without any taboos. I also clearly differentiate between Вулица Тютюная, the people whom it might represent, the clergy whom it might represent, the business what it might represent and the politics it might represent.

BTW... since you are talking about cossacks, what is your opinion about the famous cossack family names like:

Перекрестов-Осипов
Герцик
Маркович
Беркович

and of course (while technically not a cossack) Nakhimov. ;)

I guess, what you say: "they have nothing to do with Вулица Тютюная - regardless of their ethnic background", aha, I say the same.

I did not see any mention of the pro-Putin supporters in the western propaganda today. The real idiots are those anti-Putin supporters who showed up to the freezing rally and weren't paid american dollars for their service to the usa. america relies on such morons in light of its national debt.
(JohnBoy, 4 February 2012 21:08)

People are not that rich to allow more "social experiments" of 90-s. At this moment Russia and Czech Republc have the highest salaries in all ex-Socialist countries. The average salary in Moscow is about three times what an average salary in Hungary is. The prices are not three times as high. For instance the prices in Auchan supermarket are about the same. People have some basic average math skills and if they apply these - that unfortunately (I am NOT Putin-fanboy!) favors Putin. That spells doom to the competition.

The "western" fanboys (Yabloko, Apple) sound OK... as long as they do not begin to sing "E.U. has no alternative" song. They do that and it just does not make much sense at this moment, at least not with that E.U.

To Albanian trollercoasters: (un)fortunately for them Russia's population now is on increase, thanks to strong domestic birthrates of Slavic population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia

"In 2011, the population of Russia grew by 160,000 people, and reached a total of more than 143 million"

I know, Wiki is written by Putin agents, New Kosova Report or Koha Ditore are what insiders of Russian life do read.

@Szemi: the Russian-Polish-Ukrainian-Jewish relations had their ups and downs in last few hundred years, my position is to have an open dialogue without any taboos. I also clearly differentiate between Вулица Тютюная, the people whom it might represent, the clergy whom it might represent, the business what it might represent and the politics it might represent.

BTW... since you are talking about cossacks, what is your opinion about the famous cossack family names like:

Перекрестов-Осипов
Герцик
Маркович
Беркович

and of course (while technically not a cossack) Nakhimov. ;)

I guess, what you say: "they have nothing to do with Вулица Тютюная - regardless of their ethnic background", aha, I say the same.
(Ataman, 5 February 2012 09:57)

As to dialogue I completle agree and already myself have organized several polish-russian and polish-ukrainian mini meetings.(The forth mentioned ethnicity is unable to engage any civilized discussion.Of course there are exapctions but as you may know they usualy confirm the general rule.I mean they will never get rid of extreme greed which caused the main controversies among above mentioned nations.As to Poles a litttle stronger immunity to brainwashing coming from Vatican would help a lot as well.Regarding families mentioned in your post I think they are the rare examptions I have just refred to and they would be the first to make order in Tytoniowa.

am sure, the West and Albanians here would be delighted if the next flag of Russia would be black-yellow-white because there was quite some out there today. :)

Just to give some idea what black-yellow-white does mean...

[link]

Any objection to the top comments, by the way?

So you got the idea, now your time to pray that Putin will win and the Russian tricolor stays as it is now.
(Ataman, 4 February 2012 17:12)

Yes it is only a matter of time and cossacs will rule russia.They are proud people whose moral has not been spoilt by gang from ulica tytoniowa .They have large families(6-8 kids per family) so in some decades their proportion compared to russian population will be so big that they wiull reverse the negative demographic trend in russia and will become the majority.They have beautiful women,big heart,dynamism and high respect for horses and weapons.I also hope that long time spoilt polish cossack
relationship will imrove.After all they are no so distant relatives and it is always better to have them as friends than enemies.After all polish history got on declining slope only after deterirating relations with cossacks.Must be mentined that we have some common enemies.http://kozacy.com.pl/

This might be true, but you cannot compare the average salary in Moscow is not the average Salary in Russia. If you look at the whole country, it's quite the opposite: Hungarian salary about twice the average of Russia. If you compare the average salary of London instead of whole GB, the numbers are misleading.
(Analyst, 5 February 2012 14:07)

Dude once you chose such nickname as Analyst then try to anylize based on real data and not the sitation 15 years ago.In 1990s it was true that hungary had dobuble or even bigger avrage salery than averyga russiabn including poor rural areas.Today the net salary in these two countries is pretty much the same the only difference is that hungarians pay much more for utilities,food and foreign exchange based credits.So what is left in pocket is much less than in case of an average russian.And to my best knowlage Aeroflot is not on a brink of total collapse .

I am sure, the West and Albanians here would be delighted if the next flag of Russia would be black-yellow-white because there was quite some out there today. :)

Just to give some idea what black-yellow-white does mean...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVgVVAfpDjc

Any objection to the top comments, by the way?

So you got the idea, now your time to pray that Putin will win and the Russian tricolor stays as it is now.

"The average salary in Moscow is about three times what an average salary in Hungary is.
(Ataman, 5 February 2012 11:15)

This might be true, but you cannot compare the average salary in Moscow is not the average Salary in Russia. If you look at the whole country, it's quite the opposite: Hungarian salary about twice the average of Russia. If you compare the average salary of London instead of whole GB, the numbers are misleading.

I did not see any mention of the pro-Putin supporters in the western propaganda today. The real idiots are those anti-Putin supporters who showed up to the freezing rally and weren't paid american dollars for their service to the usa. america relies on such morons in light of its national debt.

I am sure, the West and Albanians here would be delighted if the next flag of Russia would be black-yellow-white because there was quite some out there today. :)

Just to give some idea what black-yellow-white does mean...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVgVVAfpDjc

Any objection to the top comments, by the way?

So you got the idea, now your time to pray that Putin will win and the Russian tricolor stays as it is now.

That's all nice but is there any alternative to Putin aside from the kooky Communists, the dimwitted "liberals", the drunken Zhirinovskys, or the crazy "National Bolsheviks"? Don't call for the end of the regime if you have nothing intelligent to replace it with :)

This might be true, but you cannot compare the average salary in Moscow is not the average Salary in Russia. If you look at the whole country, it's quite the opposite: Hungarian salary about twice the average of Russia. If you compare the average salary of London instead of whole GB, the numbers are misleading.
(Analyst, 5 February 2012 14:07)

Dude once you chose such nickname as Analyst then try to anylize based on real data and not the sitation 15 years ago.In 1990s it was true that hungary had dobuble or even bigger avrage salery than averyga russiabn including poor rural areas.Today the net salary in these two countries is pretty much the same the only difference is that hungarians pay much more for utilities,food and foreign exchange based credits.So what is left in pocket is much less than in case of an average russian.And to my best knowlage Aeroflot is not on a brink of total collapse .

am sure, the West and Albanians here would be delighted if the next flag of Russia would be black-yellow-white because there was quite some out there today. :)

Just to give some idea what black-yellow-white does mean...

[link]

Any objection to the top comments, by the way?

So you got the idea, now your time to pray that Putin will win and the Russian tricolor stays as it is now.
(Ataman, 4 February 2012 17:12)

Yes it is only a matter of time and cossacs will rule russia.They are proud people whose moral has not been spoilt by gang from ulica tytoniowa .They have large families(6-8 kids per family) so in some decades their proportion compared to russian population will be so big that they wiull reverse the negative demographic trend in russia and will become the majority.They have beautiful women,big heart,dynamism and high respect for horses and weapons.I also hope that long time spoilt polish cossack
relationship will imrove.After all they are no so distant relatives and it is always better to have them as friends than enemies.After all polish history got on declining slope only after deterirating relations with cossacks.Must be mentined that we have some common enemies.http://kozacy.com.pl/

I did not see any mention of the pro-Putin supporters in the western propaganda today. The real idiots are those anti-Putin supporters who showed up to the freezing rally and weren't paid american dollars for their service to the usa. america relies on such morons in light of its national debt.
(JohnBoy, 4 February 2012 21:08)

People are not that rich to allow more "social experiments" of 90-s. At this moment Russia and Czech Republc have the highest salaries in all ex-Socialist countries. The average salary in Moscow is about three times what an average salary in Hungary is. The prices are not three times as high. For instance the prices in Auchan supermarket are about the same. People have some basic average math skills and if they apply these - that unfortunately (I am NOT Putin-fanboy!) favors Putin. That spells doom to the competition.

The "western" fanboys (Yabloko, Apple) sound OK... as long as they do not begin to sing "E.U. has no alternative" song. They do that and it just does not make much sense at this moment, at least not with that E.U.

To Albanian trollercoasters: (un)fortunately for them Russia's population now is on increase, thanks to strong domestic birthrates of Slavic population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia

"In 2011, the population of Russia grew by 160,000 people, and reached a total of more than 143 million"

I know, Wiki is written by Putin agents, New Kosova Report or Koha Ditore are what insiders of Russian life do read.

@Szemi: the Russian-Polish-Ukrainian-Jewish relations had their ups and downs in last few hundred years, my position is to have an open dialogue without any taboos. I also clearly differentiate between Вулица Тютюная, the people whom it might represent, the clergy whom it might represent, the business what it might represent and the politics it might represent.

BTW... since you are talking about cossacks, what is your opinion about the famous cossack family names like:

Перекрестов-Осипов
Герцик
Маркович
Беркович

and of course (while technically not a cossack) Nakhimov. ;)

I guess, what you say: "they have nothing to do with Вулица Тютюная - regardless of their ethnic background", aha, I say the same.
(Ataman, 5 February 2012 09:57)

As to dialogue I completle agree and already myself have organized several polish-russian and polish-ukrainian mini meetings.(The forth mentioned ethnicity is unable to engage any civilized discussion.Of course there are exapctions but as you may know they usualy confirm the general rule.I mean they will never get rid of extreme greed which caused the main controversies among above mentioned nations.As to Poles a litttle stronger immunity to brainwashing coming from Vatican would help a lot as well.Regarding families mentioned in your post I think they are the rare examptions I have just refred to and they would be the first to make order in Tytoniowa.

Don't call for the end of the regime if you have nothing intelligent to replace it with :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 4 February 2012 20:20)

That is precisely the problem. I did watch the TV (obviously!) and at one point there was a young man very energically supporting Putin. I really do not like Putin but there was something the man said I have no answer for. He said, he just married and want children and he wants someone who can promise him stability and that he can plan his future.

I might have some ideas but I can't promise him what he wants. The current regime - as bad or immoral it could be (from my point of view) - does already deliver what he wants. That pretty much mean I have to bow to the majority and that's it.

@Szemi: the Russian-Polish-Ukrainian-Jewish relations had their ups and downs in last few hundred years, my position is to have an open dialogue without any taboos. I also clearly differentiate between Вулица Тютюная, the people whom it might represent, the clergy whom it might represent, the business what it might represent and the politics it might represent.

BTW... since you are talking about cossacks, what is your opinion about the famous cossack family names like:

Перекрестов-Осипов
Герцик
Маркович
Беркович

and of course (while technically not a cossack) Nakhimov. ;)

I guess, what you say: "they have nothing to do with Вулица Тютюная - regardless of their ethnic background", aha, I say the same.

"pro- and anti-Putin rallies"

Putin as a "liberal democrat" is facing against "progressive liberals"


Communists are funny, they can come up with so many names that are all the same receipt for a totalitarian control since the marxist days.

20 million less people in 20 years really shows the silent death and genocide attrition in that dictatorship.

It should be up to Russians what their future government may be. But note relations between the White House and the Kremlin are so bad now, the American government outlets and their followers (much of the mainstream media) are rigidly anti-Putin and unreliable. Here's an example : Radio Free Europe/ Radio Liberty deliberately inverted numbers from a BBC report to inflate the opposition numbers and minimize the pro-Putin crowd just today. Although less dishonest than that, the American press has generally swallowed whole whatever Westernized "Russian" liberals tell them in Moscow cafes. Of course, the Russian press swallowed for too long the fantasy that Obama sought a real "re-set" and penned all sorts of warm nonsense about him. The American government is now actively trying to overthrow Putin. It's too open to miss. They're spending millions. It won't work. In fact, the blundering effort is just helping Putin. Maybe the Kremlin should send Ron Paul some money and trained agitators. Just sadly kidding.

I live in Moscow and I too dislike many things happening here. I thought of attending one of the rallies but failed to choose one. Both on Bolotnaya and Poklonnaya there were politicians whom I respect. Bolotnaya rally called for bigger changes and it is exactly what I think. But the organizers are liberals mud with cooperation with the West. Though the Communists and some other patriots joined them I feel never dying disgust and hatred to those who has destroyed my country. So I sustained from going there.

On my way to my job ( we work on Saturdays) there was a very big plug because of the rally on Poklonnaya. Rap music and multiple policemen showed it was serious. But I support only the foreign policy of Mr.Putin and dislike the internal one. So I changed my route and went to my office. By the way the meeting here had been advertised as an anti orange one. Here it sounds as Anti American. And many of the interviewed said they were not going to vote for Putin. But in the evening all of them were declared to support Putin.
I think both of the rallies were attended by about equal crowds of about 100 000 men. Though Putin publicly estimated it as 140 000 – 190 000 against 34 000 in his favor. Viewed from helicopters the rallies were equal. On Poklonnaya there was more space and they stood free while on Bolotnaya people had to stand much closer. Besides on Bolotnaya they all were free in their choice while at pro Putin rally many were obliged to attend. But in any case the West has zero chances in Russia. They have discredited themselves here for decades and even on Bolotnaya patriots composed the absolute majority.

"Up to 138,000 took part in the pro-Putin rally just a few kilometers away, police said. The Kremlin has a reputation of boosting their numbers in protests by bussing in sympathizers from surrounding areas, and teachers have said trade unions pressured them to turn out in support of Putin."

Must sound familiar to people from ex-YU, where a former president used the very same methods for the organized 'rallies'.