RS president, LDP leader spar in TV debate

Jovanovic should not have accepted the invitation with men-monster like Dodik. The latter KNOWS that pure genocide took place and tries to become a HERO by hidding it.
Jovanovic is the ONLY choice in Serbia, because he is brave to tell the truth in the face of anyone, no matter how radicals and nationalist hate it.

”The RS was created in 1992, three years before Srebrenica,” what a load of rubbish! The so-called "Republika Srpska" is another unfortunate offshoot from the failures of the international community to deal with the Bosnian crisis all of which is sadly portrayed in the Dayton Agreement which has made Bosnia today what it is signed in 1995.
The notion of 'Republika Srpska' was not even considered by the most cunning Serbian nationalists in 1992. We know exactly what they were trying to achieve then.... Greater Serbia at the expense of other non-Serbs!

"I never admitted that genocide was committed in Srebrenica and I never will."

oh no its true...all those bodies were results of car crashes! you do not have to admit anything, the world has already condemned you for it. there are people who don't admit the holocaust as well

Dodik had a good response to everything and Jovanovic just cemented his position as a CIA employee.

Jovanovic has buried himself with this,Dodik was logical and countered with clear cut arguments while Jovanovic was hysterically screaming...
These foreign funded NGO politicians and parties must be chased out as soon as possible from Serbia!

BTW Very interesting to see that most of these "liberals" working for NGOs or expressing their anti Serb views were former communist establishment figures from the old SFRJ!

These people were in power when Serbs were terrorized in Kosovo during the 60s until the 80s and they did at that time nothing but to support Albanian extremists against their own people...

This guy needs to be thrown out of this country as soon as possible,I hope everybody understands now that Serb jugocommunists are the biggest enemy of the Serbian people,even more than all Albanian extremists put together!
They are the virus inside the national body!

"I am taking care of my country that is three months away from the elections...

So he says this only for votes. How cynically like... a politician. It was a major mistake for Dodik to do this tv program. It has only given free extra media exposure to Jovanovic who like leaders of all tiny parties, rely on controversy to protect their position as head of the party and get free media coverage abroad. I sometimes suspect that Jovanovic does his job because he is not employable anywhere else in serbia apart for in foreign funded NGOs and think tanks.

So the trolls want to open this can of worms again...so be it...

The murder of over 3,000 Serbian villagers surrounding Srebrenica - men, women and children - by muslim forces commanded by Oric in the supposed de-militarized town of Srebrenica was dismissed by western powers with hardly a shrug of their hypocritical shoulders...

...yet, when Serb forces rolled into Srebrenica seeking revenge, bused all women and children - that wanted to leave - out of the town then battled Oric's well armed 8th Army that sought to break out towards Tuzla - killing up to 5,000 of these murderers - they are accused of genocide!?!

What blinding hypocrisy! The death of muslim soldiers that committed atrocities is lamented above the killing of defensless Serb women and children.

Shame on all of you.

A storm in a teacup really. We've heard and seen it all before and my sense is that nobody learns anything from these duels.

After watching it for over an hour I was reminded of how much time was wasted on debates between politicians in the past that everybody watched. These days most people (like myself) just don't bother wasting our time on them.

So Jovanovic will get some election coverage, so Dodik can return to Republika Srpska as a defender of Serb interests? So B92 managed to get good viewing figures for a midday slot, and perhaps if they are good enough this slot can be used for special 'duels' in the future, as advertisers will be interested.

On a final note I'm left wondering why some people have an obsession with Jovanovic. I know its like the old US Mcarthyism, but fixation and hatred are very unhealthy. We live in a democracy (sort of) and people have the right to express their views, whether we agree with them or not.

Can someone tell me which restaurant in Belgrade Jovanovic owns?

I'd like to eat dinner there.

@bganon

You cannot blame those Serbs who express hate towards Jovanovic, the things that he comes out with are offensive and outright disrespectful to those who died in fighting for RS, and Kosovo for that matter. It does seem that people should be able to say what they want, but the LDP shouldn't be legal, the fact that it openly supports Kosovo's independence is an outright breach of Serbia's very constitution, and therefore an illegal act and political party. He paints the picture that Serbia and RS are completely different, yet the people speak the same language, have the same Orthodox Christian religion, same culture, and even the same colours in the same order on their flags, this man is a disgrace for making such ridiculous suggestions.

But all credit to Dodik, he is clearly the better debater, and more presentable. While Jovanovic sits there having a tantrum and getting angry with the shadows under his eyes and unshaved face, Dodik keeps composed and stays civil, while appearing like a decent political figure, Jovanovic is an utter joke with his 'facts' that he fails to back up.

Jovanović responded that his statement that the RS had been created on genocide was a part of his "concern for his own country". What an embarrassment he (Jovanovic) and the LDP are for Serbia. If he was so concerned for his country, he would try and search for the truth in what actually happened in RS, Croatia, BiH, and Kosovo - and not just make CNN headline statements out of "concern". This former, I hope, drug addict is not even newsworthy, but since B92 likes to quote this person, please write a little about Jovanovic's background, B92. This former activist has done quite well for himself in the years since. He owns one of the most exclusive restaurants in BG, has numerous homes, villas, and even paved a road to his mother in laws house, on public funds. Did he accomplish all of this from his salary as a politician? Of course not! He is funded to say the things he says. I find him despicable, a sellout for profit, and with little concern about where Serbia is headed, unlike what he claims. I do admire Mr. Dodik though. He is a straight shooting politician, that says it like it is. Long live the RS, and all my Bosnian family and friends there.

Shame on all of you.
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 1 February 2012 17:13) No wonder Serbia will be going no where only peddling backwards here how the world sees it and the courts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre . The truth is never popular with criminals they are all innocent framed that is why well over 90% of the convicted are Serbs by ICTY. "A third accusation levelled at the Bosniak defenders of Srebrenica is that they provoked the Serb offensive by attacking out of that safe area. Even though this accusation is often repeated by international sources, there is no credible evidence to support it. Dutchbat personnel on the ground at the time assessed that the few "raids" the Bosniaks mounted out of Srebrenica were of little or no military significance. These raids were often organised in order to gather food, as the Serbs had refused access for humanitarian convoys into the enclave. Even Serb sources approached in the context of this report acknowledged that the Bosniak forces in Srebrenica posed no significant military threat to them. The biggest attack the Bosniaks launched out of Srebrenica during the more than two years during which it was designated a safe area appears to have been the raid on the village of Višnjica, on 26 June 1995, in which several houses were burned, up to four Serbs were killed and approximately 100 sheep were stolen. In contrast, the Serbs overran the enclave two weeks later, driving tens of thousands from their homes, and summarily executing thousands of men and boys. The Serbs repeatedly exaggerated the extent of the raids out of Srebrenica as a pretext for the prosecution of a central war aim: to create a geographically contiguous and ethnically pure territory along the Drina, while freeing their troops to fight in other parts of the country. The extent to which this pretext was accepted at face value by international actors and observers reflected the prism of "moral equivalency" through which the conflict in Bosnia was viewed by too many for too long.

Mission impossible for Serbs to hear and accept the truth.

''...Jovanovic just cemented his position as a CIA employee.''
(mike, 1 February 2012 14:34)

Upssssssss..,here is another CIA employee i personally know:Dimitrije Tucović,Димитрије Туцовић,13 May 1881, Gostilje, Čajetina – November 1914, Vrače Brdo.
''We have carried out the attempted premeditated murder of an entire nation. We were caught in that criminal act and have been obstructed. Now we have to suffer the punishment.... In the Balkan Wars, Serbia not only DOUBLED its territory, but also its EXTERNAL ENEMIES''
Another Serbian Soldier(CIA employee)
The second Luma massacre (1913).
After the London Ambassador Conference decided that Luma should be within the Albanian state, the Serbian army initially refused to withdraw. Albanians raised a great rebellion in September 1913, after which Luma once again suffered harsh retaliation from the Serbian army. A report of the International Commission cited a letter of a Serbian soldier, who described the punitive expedition against the rebel Albanians:
"My dear Friend, I have no time to write to you at length, but I can tell you that appalling things are going on here. I am terrified by them, and constantly ask myself HOW MAN CAN BE SO barbarous as to commit such cruelties. It is horrible. I dare not tell you more, but I may say that Luma (an Albanian region along the river of the same name,Luma=River in ALBANIAN), no longer exists. There is nothing but CORPSES, DUST and ASHES. There are villages of 100, 150, 200 houses, where there is no longer a single man, literally not one. We collect them in bodies of forty to fifty, and then we pierce them with our bayonets to the last man. Pillage is going on everywhere. The officers told the soldiers to go to Prizren and sell the things they had stolen."
Source:Wikipedia
Hiding the Face behind the Finger,it seems that it is Serbian SPECIALITY,however,We,ALBANIANS,will Never Forgive,We will Never Forget.
At least,my kids are fully aware of the CRIMES u have committed against us.They will grow up 1 day.And before thumbing down my comment,start learning ur Proper History,no matter how UGLY it is.
DEAN the Great,from the most beautiful city in the whole world:BERAT,ALBANIA.

LOL um Dean?

1. "It is impossible 4 me 2 have meet Tucovic in person.DON'T U THINK LIKE ME???

Certainly not, thank God :)

2. You still didn't explain the relevance of your Balkan Wars copy/paste argument. What does that have to do with Ceda-Dodik? Doesn't Ceda's opinions contradict your "Finger before the Face" whatever whatever you're trying to say? I don't know what you're trying to say other than throw in something completely off topic with the belief you actually have a point to make in relation to the article or a someone else's comment. So ok, I'll make you happy: yes this article had nothing to do with Albanian suffering at the hands of Serbs. It's good that someone like you came around to bring that topic up :)

3. I never really thought where the northern boundaries of Northern Epirus was. I always thought Gjirokastër was certainly part of it, but seeing all the "Byzantine" churches there makes me wonder how much Greek civilization existed in Albania before Hoxha turned it into a little North Korea.

Seriously "bro", calm down. Mashing out an emotional rant with lots of caps and punctuation marks, not to mention frequent use of SMS-text typing makes you appear like some angry little 16 year old. Please refrain from telling anyone from learning history or getting an education until you sound slightly more mature, or at least know how not to butcher the English language :)

Cedomir Jovanovic works for the United States-and the United States is a country founded on the genocide of its indigenous population and upon the enslavement of countless of millions of African people. Who has killed more muslims the United States or the Bosnian Serbs?
(Budimir, 1 February 2012 19:04)

I thought Slavs (Serbs) did the same when they moved to Balkans.

Cedomir Jovanovic works for the United States-and the United States is a country founded on the genocide of its indigenous population and upon the enslavement of countless of millions of African people. Who has killed more muslims the United States or the Bosnian Serbs?

"...the Toronto Star's Bill Schiller disagrees...."

ha ha...i love this, a newspaper article has more credebiltiy than an actual investigation in the case. only a very paranoid individual (ahem, in this case a hard nationalist) would suggest such a thing. what next, Lincoln was assasinated by Albanians? p.s. RS WAS the product of genocide and it will FOREVER be linked to Srebrenica, no matter your denials, your protestations and whatnot. history has already condemned you for it. p.s. look at the prinores in the Hague, guess which nationality they mostly come form? oh i ofrget, its all propaganda right?

It is true that what Mr. Jovanovic said, about RS in Bosnia and Hercegovina, and its artificial creation of the genocide, and still has the same purpose in Kosovo.

Jovanovic should absolutely be free to declare his views -- however cynical they might be -- on the foundations of RS. In the end, it will simply be up to Serbian voters to decide whether to back his political platform.

It is interesting that he continues to rankle so many nerves with comments that many Serbs treat as rubbish. Why so much sensitivity? Why not simply write him off as a lunatic and ignore what he says? Or is it that he gnaws at some uncomfortable truth lurking deep within the Serbian psyche?

A comment was made earlier that this particular debate is getting old and uninteresting but I rather like that the subject is still alive and kicking nearly two decades later. For the people of the region to move on and live in peace, we must arrive at the truth. It's true that many of us have watched and listened to what politicians have to say on these matters over and over again, but what about our children? Our grandchildren? What about those whose notions might change over time on the arrival of new information?

On the topic of Srebrenica in particular, all of the events in that area were horrible, whether the massacre led by Mladic in 1995 or the ones led by Oric in earlier years. And there were many other atrocities committed by all side on other fronts. Please, let us conjure up all the logic and objectivity we can muster and examine FACTS, not MYTHS. And let us start with the rise of nationalist figures in the 1980s, and not specific events that happened in one corner of Bosnia starting in 1992.

Let's even go back further than the 1980s. What conditions existed in Balkan society before that period which could allow the prospect of a violent dissolution of Yugoslavia to become acceptable to so many of her citizens?

It's a long, complicated, sad, ugly riddle that needs to be solved in order for peace, healing and prosperity to really take root.

Serbia was the biggest and most influential republic in the former Yugoslavia. In Yugoslavia they controlled almost everything, from army to money to writing of history. That was not enough, they wanted it all. Today, Serbia is politically isolated, financially weaker, much smaller in size. Nationalists still run Serbia and their policy is going to force the region of Sandzak to ask for its independence. Kosovo is forever gone.
Jovanovic (meaning-people who think like him) is the only hope for Serbia and Serbians as people.

DEAN the Great,from the most beautiful city in the whole world:BERAT,ALBANIA.
(Dean, 1 February 2012 18:25)

Um Dean?

1. How do you personally know someone born in 1881?
2. What does Luma have to do with the Ceda-Dodik debate? In fact what does your entire copy/paste rant have to do with the Ceda-Dodik debate?
3. I've been to Berat. Lots of lovely Greek Orthodox churches there. Reminds me once again that many landmarks in Albania belong to other civilizations and mercifully survived the Dark Ages of Hoxha :)

The Toronto Star story offered up by Nemanja was intended to make Oric out to be the villain, but I have to say, it does little to flatter the Serb forces holding Srebrenica under siege. Choking off food supplies? So, what? Starve civilians to death in the cold of winter? I'd rather a bullet. And why hadn't Karadzic permitted journalists into the pocket for more than three months? What was he trying to hide?

Peggy do you see the difference between expressing an opinion on a policy, advocating or opposing that policy and expressing hatred for that person because of their opinion?

If you want to make it about personalities or essentially dumb down the argument by making people and not issues the important thing that is your choice, but its my perogative to not bother with that hate thing. Its a little creepy to be talking about my feelings for a man I've never met. And if you are asking me if I'm going to believe everything written about him in the media then answer is no. I don't believe them either.

As for what he said, he said the same thing he's been saying for years, just as Dodik said the same thing. Its tedious to talk about the same things over and it got them (and gets us) nowhere. Frankly I think my time was wasted watching and I'm not going to go into depth any more than this.

It was a duel after all, it wasn't even designed to help us come to an educated opinion. This was a battle between politicians to see who would win, for our entertainment. For much of the show it looked as if Jovanovic was getting the upper hand, as he's quicker than Dodik, but Dodik always managed to deliver a few heavy blows towards the end of each conversation.

As I said in the end its nothing to do with reality of Republika Srpska and Kosovo, it was everything to do with Jovanovic and Dodik. Both men will come away reasonably happy.

Milorad Dodik is one uneducated person he has no clue what he was talking about. I wish he goes home and watch's the interview so he can see what he was saying it didn’t make any sense , first of all I was in Sarajevo last year and there is lots of Serbs living there and working there and there is lots Serbian Churches untouched. There was lots of Serbs who fought for the Sarajevo and lost there loved ones in the war, second of all there is lots Bosnjaks who helped Serbs and saved them from getting killed. I just can’t believe that people still listen someone like Dodik , just like Cedomir said he is the one that’s spreading negative attitude and hate between Bosnjaks , Hrvats , Srbes. I wish someone steps in there and takes control in RS and Bosnia as well because in Bosnia there is lots of bad Bosnjaks running the country and bad politics. And Cedomir is not working for USA and he is not CIA agent. He is one smart and Jung person trying to help people and take them to the right direction. Thank You from NEW YORK.

On a final note I'm left wondering why some people have an obsession with Jovanovic. I know its like the old US Mcarthyism, but fixation and hatred are very unhealthy. We live in a democracy (sort of) and people have the right to express their views, whether we agree with them or not.
(bganon, 1 February 2012 15:09)
=============================

You really can't see past your own nose but try to appear well educated on all matters.
Yes, people do have the right to express their opinions and that's why this traitor is given too much air but what he said is unforgivable and highly offensive.
I am so surprised that as a Serb you don't find him offensive, or if you do you say nothing about that. All you do is condemn us for expressing our feeling towards him. Like he has right to express his opinion on almost everything, we too have our right to express our opinion of him and our feelings towards him. Why do you fight so hard to silence us by trying to insinuate that somehow we are wrong to express our strong views?

So for once do take a stand of what is actually said in the news and tell us how you feel about this man and what he says instead of just trying to sound on so superior to us. Yes, we know you are civilized and smart but do you have an opinion on what he said?

Why all the hoopla some wonder about Ceda? Perhaps because he says things that doesn't jive with collective opinion. Perhaps because he gets more attention and media coverage saying something provocative than saying something intelligent. Perhaps he gained a few more supporters and a few more enemies battling it out with Dodik. Watching the debate reminded me of the senseless "debates" that happen in the US, where two diametrically opposed people shout at each other for an hour. Dodik "won" as far as I'm concerned because Ceda offers nothing other than scripted criticisms and the same blame-us-ignore-others rhetoric he always does, which is why his party barely gets 5% of the popular vote. Yet Ceda reminds me that Serbia is light years ahead of its more so-called "democratic" neighbors. Can anyone ever imagine someone in Croatia breaking away from the HDZero story and saying Storm was "ethnic cleansing", or calling Gotovina what he is, a war criminal? Can any Bosniak openly call Oric a war criminal? Can any Albanian condemn the 2004 pogroms, or call for an honest investigation into the organ trafficking case? No. Any one of these parallel Cedas would be forcibly silenced. In Kosovo's case, he'd end up with a bullet in his head by the end of the week. So cheer for Ceda not because he's intelligent (he's not) but because he can speak his mind in Serbia and only be laughed at.

Bill,

Kosovo is still part of Serbia according to UN1244,Kosovo can only be represented under this resolution,nothing else...

As for the EU keeping Serbia alive,don`t be ridiculous,they cant keep themselves alive...

The export to Russia and third countries this year alonne grew 50%,what the hell do we want with Europe which has closed its market for our agrocultural goods but wants free access to the Serbian market to dump their junk here..

We have no benefits from Europe,credits should be rolled over to Chinese and Russian lenders so we don`t depend on the MMF!

No compromises,Stevanovic!

Judging by the space devoted by this article to Jovanovic's statements and the continously self-contradictory cretinous crap of Dodik, respectively, it would seem that the former hardly got a word in. Interesting way of covering what is supposed to have been a two-way discussion.

Lenard,

Convicted by what? The NATO-sponsored kangaroo court of the ICTY? The organiztion that led the dismemberment of Yugoslavia? That fought the Serbs and supported their enemies at every opportunity?

What a shocker?!?

It's a matter of your point of reference. In Serbia, Greece, Russia and China, its the U.S., Germany and their stooges that were the aggressor in the former Yugoslavia.

Naser Oric is documented for the murder of thousands of innocent Serbs yet the ICTY saw fit to dismiss all charges levied against...as their masters commanded.

It - like your silly post - is a sham.

Some sheep stolen and four Serbs killed? Really...

...the Toronto Star's Bill Schiller disagrees....

The Toronto Star
July 16, 1995, Sunday, Sunday Second Edition
Section: NEWS; Pg. A1
Length: 816 Words
Headline: Fearsome Muslim warlord eludes Bosnian Serb forces
Byline: Bill Schiller Toronto Star
Dateline: Belgrade, Yugoslavia

BELGRADE, Yugoslavia - When Bosnian Serb commander Gen. Ratko Mladic swept triumphantly into Srebrenica last week, he not only wanted to sweep Srebrenica clean of Muslims - he wanted Nasir Oric.

In Mladic's view, the powerfully built Muslim commander had made life too difficult and too deadly for Serb communities nearby.

Even though the Serbs had Srebrenica surrounded, Oric was still mounting commando raids by night against Serb targets.

Oric, as blood-thirsty a warrior as ever crossed a battlefield, escaped Srebrenica before it fell. Some believe he may be leading the Bosnian Muslim forces in the nearby enclaves of Zepa and Gorazde. Last night these forces seized armored personnel carriers and other weapons from U.N. peacekeepers in order to better protect themselves.

Oric is a fearsome man, and proud of it.

I met him in January, 1994, in his own home in Serb-surrounded Srebrenica.

On a cold and snowy night, I sat in his living room watching a shocking video version of what might have been called Nasir Oric's Greatest Hits.

There were burning houses, dead bodies, severed heads, and people fleeing.

Oric grinned throughout, admiring his handiwork.

"We ambushed them," he said when a number of dead Serbs appeared on the screen.

The next sequence of dead bodies had been done in by explosives: "We launched those guys to the moon," he boasted.

When footage of a bullet-marked ghost town appeared without any visible bodies, Oric hastened to announce: "We killed 114 Serbs there."

Later there were celebrations, with singers with wobbly voices chanting his praises.

These video reminiscences, apparently, were from what Muslims regard as Oric's glory days. That was before most of eastern Bosnia fell and Srebrenica became a "safe zone" with U.N. peacekeepers inside - and Serbs on the outside.

Lately, however, Oric increased his hit-and-run attacks at night. And in Mladic's view, it was far too successful for a community that was supposed to be suppressed.

The Serbs regard Oric, once Serb President Slobodan Milosevic's personal bodyguard, as a war criminal.

But they don't want to send him to the international war crimes tribunal in The Hague, Netherlands. They want to track him down and kill him.

The only songs they want sung of Nasir Oric are funeral dirges.

But that hasn't happened.

Srebrenica, surrounded by 3,000 armed Serbs as it was then, was a strange town. It held a desperate kind of life - a life in suspended animation.

People talked about what they used to do, or used to be. Or about what they would do or would become once they were free again.

Sleeping beneath the sheltering sky near Tuzla as Srebrenica's surviving residents did last week - after having been driven from their homes - was not in their catalogue of expectations.

I remember steep streets lined with snow and, everywhere, firewood.

Srebrenica, an old silver mining town, was built to hold 4,500 residents, but was then crammed with 22,500. And the overall pocket, some 14 kilometres wide by 16 kilometres long, had swelled to 46,000 in all.

It had the look and feel of an overcrowded, somewhat dilapidated, ski resort town.

But it was anything but.

Still, people were friendly. The face of an outsider, an unexplained newcomer, came as a pleasant surprise to them and I was welcomed into their homes, served tea brewed on makeshift firewood stoves, and treated with kindness.

There was, even then, some tension in the air about our Canadian peacekeepers there. But they were still doing a good job - even an excellent one - despite extraordinarily high expectations.

I got into Srebrenica by convincing Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic that the time was right for a journalist to visit. None had been allowed for more than 100 days. People were wondering what was going on behind the curtain.

In the end, another journalist asked to come along. He had a vehicle, and I didn't. It was a good trade-off.

But what we smelled there, besides the smoke of a thousand and one cooking fires, was the slow death of hope.

No one wanted to admit it was a hopeless situation. They wanted to believe that someone, something, perhaps some extraordinary act of fate, was going to save them and their town.

They just didn't know what it was. And that not knowing ate away at them, just as their thinning food supplies, having been choked off by the Serbs, did.

At the very end of the only real street that led all the way down into the town and became, in effect, main street, I'll always remember dozens of kids taking turns whizzing across a pool of sheer ice, their bottoms protected by worn pieces of thin cardboard.

We don't use the word "glee" anymore. But that's what it was then. Glee on Main Street, Downtown Srebrenica.

A bit of laughter against the cold. A bit of glee in the face of inevitable doom.

DEAN the Great,from the most beautiful city in the whole world:BERAT,ALBANIA.
(Dean, 1 February 2012 18:25)
=======================
This statement alone confirms you ridiculous and delusional you are.
I think your kids won't be able to see anything else but this statement and try to distance themselves from your thinking.
On the other hand they may not but whatever it won't matter to us.

Dodik is the only sane politician in that region.

The statements of both politicians were correct. The RS was created in 1992 when Bosnia was still part of Yugoslavia, and the genocide was only in Srebrenica committed by General Krstic and his man according to the hague tribunal, and genocide was not committed by the people and/of the Republic Srpska.

I hope Mr Dodik will lead the RS to a prosperous path in the future. And I hope Mr Jovanovic will also follow the path of progress and love for Serbia instead of the money path!

The Israeli Foreign Affairs Minister visited RS and issued an invitation to Milorad Dodik to officially visit the state of Israel, the Bosniaks wrote to Israel demanding that they revoke such invitation because Dodik was a denier of the Srebrenica holocaust.

The reply was that the Srebrenica incident was NOT genocide but at best a war crime and nothing else. In actual fact the Israeli representative stopped short of calling it an outright lie.

Now for all these people calling it genocide go and buy yourself a good dictionary and look up the word genocide then you maybe able to move on in your lives.

Any who relies on the wording from the Tribunal in the Hague as a guide to words is a first class idiot. The judiciary that sit on those benches are the scrapings of the bottom of the legal fraternity barrel who could not spell their own names let alone give an interpretation on a complex matter – why do you think that not one judge that sat or currently sits on that Tribunal is a person of note in the legal field?

Cedo is a pathetic fool who trying to get points with his western masters.

Peggy can't you just accept that not everybody gets as emotional as you do?
As I said this was for our 'entertainment' and the aim of the politicians was to play on our feelings, if you want to fall for that this is your choice. I have seen too much to keep falling for the same stuff over and over.

If 'someone' accuses my brother of something? You mean if my brother accuses another brother of something, don't you? Anyway these are not my brothers, these are politicians for God's sake! Finally, I might just reply if you actually raise a specific point from their discussion rather than just lecture me on what I should be thinking.

Um Dean?

1. How do you personally know someone born in 1881?
2. What does Luma have to do with the Ceda-Dodik debate? In fact what does your entire copy/paste rant have to do with the Ceda-Dodik debate?
3. I've been to Berat. Lots of lovely Greek Orthodox churches there. Reminds me once again that many landmarks in Albania belong to other civilizations and mercifully survived the Dark Ages of Hoxha :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 1 February 2012 21:55)
1-His theoretical work,i meant.Be smart.It is impossible 4 me 2 have meet Tucovic in person.DON'T U THINK LIKE ME???
2-I guess u didn't read the letter sent by a Serbian soldier,the ''CIA employee''.Nothing 2 do with '' Ceda-Dodik debate'',but ironically replying to ''mike''.However,as i wrote on my previous comment:If u Serbs like 2 hide the Face behind the Finger,there is nothing i can do.It might be something of culture trait 2 You.But what i can do is to REMIND you the crimes u have committed throughout the History,which in very Elegant or Brutal way,CEDA is doing right now in ur country.
My ''Copy&Paste attitude''???I already stressed the source of information,as i am sure that Serbs don't like reading an entire book.Just 4 practical reasons.
3-You are going further than the ''Greek Patriots''themselves.
Not even THEM consider BERAT as their own territory.And guess what,i am talking about Greeks,who still believe in ''talking snakes'' and ''flying horses'',let alone if they see a ''Greek church'' in BERAT city.They will take the ''matter''to UN.However,when it comes to ''Greek churches'',it seems that You,my ''dear'' friend,can't make the difference between Byzantine Empire and Greek civilization.It is a similar problem with greeks as well.Read and learn,''bro''.
Hoxha?!,i don't care about him.But i am surprized u said nothing about my Beautiful city,BERAT.

(Peggy, 1 February 2012 21:27)
''Peggy''?!?!?!?,ZOTI/God is a witness,But i am telling u girl,You are a source of Dark Energy to me.I have met so many ''Bad'' people in my life,of different nationalities,Liars,Lunatics,Idiots,Killers,Nationalists,people who like Horror movies and Voodoo Rituals..etc.,but no 1 ever archived to make me feel so Depressed and Scared,like u do.HONESTLY.Even tho.,i never met or spoke to You,i have 2 admit that i am afraid of you.There is 2 much HATRED on you,girl,and honestly i don't like 2 establish any form of communication with You.
Despite saying that,u might be a Lovely human being,but this is the feeling i experience every time i read ur comments,and i do Trust my Instinct more than the theory of Relativity itself.
DEAN the Great,from the most beautiful city in the world,BERAT,ALBANIA.

Mission impossible for Serbs to hear and accept the truth.
(dori tirana, 1 February 2012 23:23)

Wow, how sad that you have to come and read about Serbian news articles that have nothing to do with you.

How sad that you just come to disparage Serbs on a Serbian/English news website.

We don't even care about your Tirana news websites or whatever is happening in your crappy country. So why do you come read our news and comment on Serbs?

It's really pathetic and I hope you can see this.

PS: c) you deep down inside feel inferior to Serbs and Serbia and you suffer from tall poppy syndrome. By cutting down those who you envy to make yourselves feel bigger and stronger and more valid.

Boring Albanians have nothing better to do than come hate on a Serbian/English news website. Really says a lot about your people and the issues you carry & will inevitably carry with you forever.

3. I've been to Berat. Lots of lovely Greek Orthodox churches there. Reminds me once again that many landmarks in Albania belong to other civilizations and mercifully survived the Dark Ages of Hoxha :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 1 February 2012 21:55)
From Serbian point of view but only Serbian you are right. The Albanian civilization has never existed. We hope that Serbs civilize us. Don’t feel too bad the day that you will learn and accept that we are Illyrian. I have only one question for you. When Albanian comes to Balkan? Please prepare and don’t tell me this ridiculous story of George Maniac.

Sorry Bgannon, but what Cedo said was very inflammatory and insulting.
I feel sad that you don't see that and that a statement of that magnitude does nothing for you.
You keep dancing around the issue, but how do you feel about that statement?
Do you agree with Cedo and as a Serb how can it not stir up any emotion in you?
When someone says lies about you or your ethnic brothers across the river do you not care and only worry about entertainment value of what is said?
If someone accuses your brothers unjustly do you have no feelings toward that person? Geez, you must be a very cool cucumber indeed or just don't give a damn about Serbs in RS or simply don't care about the truth.
Which is it? Pick one. I have asked you direct questions and it would only be fair to answer them directly.

If Serbs were smart enough not to fall for fools who speak the nationalist language, they'd still have Kosovo today and probably would be ruling over most of Yugoslavia.
But words of victimization are music to your ears, you can't help it. And you'll be forever stuck with morons wrapped with a flag leading you to nowhere land where they rule and get rich while you're drunk in imaginary glory.
Sorry for those, who don't deserve to share the same fate with you.

Cedomir Jovanovic works for the United States-and the United States is a country founded on the genocide of its indigenous population and upon the enslavement of countless of millions of African people. Who has killed more muslims the United States or the Bosnian Serbs?
(Budimir, 1 February 2012 19:04)

I thought Slavs (Serbs) did the same when they moved to Balkans.
(Avni, 1 February 2012 23:04)

Africans lived in the Balkans?

If 'someone' accuses my brother of something? You mean if my brother accuses another brother of something, don't you? Anyway these are not my brothers, these are politicians for God's sake! Finally, I might just reply if you actually raise a specific point from their discussion rather than just lecture me on what I should be thinking.
(bganon, 2 February 2012 11:14)
==============================

You really are something bganon. You belong in politics yourself because again you totally ignored direct questions.
I did not say that either Dodik or Cedo were your brothers. I referred to Serbian people in RS as your brothers but if you don't see that then fine you don't consider other Serbs your brothers.

You know very well that it is the people of RS who Cedo accused of genocide because saying that RS was created on genocide is accusing the people of RS.

So again, for the last time, will you answer my questions or not? Don't try to fob me off with rubbish like this was only entertainment. It was not for many and it is a very serious accusation and matter for many.
Bgannon, it is YOU who was lecturing all of us that prompted me to respond with my own questions as you have not said one way or the other if you agree with Cedo and if it upsets you that Serbs (ok not your brothers) in RS are accused of such things.

Unless you are prepared to answer the questions, don't bother giving me the spin which you are obviously so good at.

Dino Nezirevic I can tell you that you are lying about it all.
I am in constant contact with people who had to flee and lost everything and they tell me that there are no Serbs living there. A few Serbs who are still around does not mean that Serbian population is well and still there.
I have relatives there and even some Muslims who have come from there before the war and who I know have said that there are cafes in Sarajevo they would not go to again because of fear of guns present even though they were their favourite when then lived there.
All the Serbs we knew when we used to live there way before the war ( I was a child when we left) are no longer there. They are either dead or driven out.
So don't preach to me who has access to information from people who were there and no longer age and some who are still there.

Avni
Have in mind that according to Russian history Russians came from the Balkans) So how can Slavs come from the north if they where not living there? also think about Swedish people similar genetics like western Balkan people/Sardinia and Moldova), and they call themselves Sverige where Finns call them Rutsi (S(v)erbi/rusi) :P
According to German history Slavs even came in Ukraine in the 6th century, Slavs suddenly appeared in the 6th century as if they never excited before.. (History is total wrong and needs to be revised)
(check this: the word hi"STORY" has no meaning in greek and ancient greek, in Slavic it means "it(past) happened" And history mean and it happened or better: something that has happened (in the past), would fit for that word ;)

Slavs lived and still are living in whole Europe!
(for many people their language is lost but in genetics they live forth)
(english is a made language celtic/latin/german mix) Everyone who speaks a latin language lost thier celtic/latin language. For example any slav can read galic without problems!
Slavic means in English "GLORIOUS" Every Slav should be proud of it like our Celtic brothers! (Celt also means Glorious) So both people are Glorious people and let these two people be the ancestors of most modern Europeans :)

The original founding "genocide" would be the Ottoman occupation. That was some five hundred years of slavery. If this self-hating fool from the LDP thinks he is a good "Western" boy for saying nasty things about his people, he's over ten years late. I understand he is the member of a minor party that needs to be provocative to get attention. Once again: the RS is an accomplished fact, the Croats want their own entity and the Bosnian Moslems are viewed with suspicion by the West. I'm sure the LDP's masters in Germany, Turkey and the US are not interested in a real debate about "genocide. I am disgusted that Bosnia's Moslems continue to pressure for the destruction of the RS. That is an incitement to genocide. Have we had enough "genocide" talk? Now let's move on. Hands off the RS.

Dodik is a very ignorant man and politician, what a fool!

Serbia was the biggest and most influential republic in the former Yugoslavia. In Yugoslavia they controlled almost everything, from army to money to writing of history...
(fajko, 1 February 2012 21:06)

Would you mind listing the backgrounds of the heads of the army, airforce and navy at the end of the SFRY? Or maybe the backgrounds of the Prime Minister and Minsters at the end of the SFRY? To write so much yet know so little of who did what and where in the SFRY is an indictment of your ability to separate reality from opinion. There's this thing called the 'Internet' (here's a clue, you've been already using it) and most of this stuff can be easily checked. Why can't you?

http://danieltoljaga.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/the-1992-suha-massacre-one-of-reasons-why-naser-oric-attacked-kravica-in-1993/

Dodik as always is playing with history, amongst other things- his version of RS was declared before Srebrenica's horrors but it was not until the Accord was signed that RS was given any territorial or constitutional significance, in effect Dayton 'created' RS as the RS of Dodik's fantasy was somewhat larger and cruder in structure.
By banging the 'what is and what is not genocide in Srebrenica' he skilfully distracts from the reality of his compatriot's 'ethnic culling' plan that devastated eastern and northern Bosnia. The concentration and time frame of numbers of dead in Srebrenica are shameful but the accumulation of similar numbers from the separate horrors of places like Foca, Prijedor,Visegrad, Zvornik,Brcko is equally as shameful and indicative of a grand plan that smells to us ordinary folk like genocide.

I note the Bill Schiller's article from the Toronto Star gets a special feature- please also note that his claims were never corroborated with a photo or log or any evidence beyond his claims. Nor has he ever accepted to appear at a hearing where perjury is an option nor has the mysterious damning tape he referred to ever surfaced.

As for the numbers of pravoslavci fatalities; “The allegations that Serb casualties in Bratunac, between April 1992 and December 1995 amount to over three thousand is an evident falsification of facts…. After all the sources have been processed, cross-referenced and reviewed, the results showed that 119 civilians and 424 soldiers… died in Bratunac during the war.“ and
“Under the Dayton Peace Accords, the suburbs of Sarajevo held by the VRS [Bosnian Serb Army] were to be re-integrated into the city of Sarajevo. The then leadership of the RS [Republika Srpska] called on the local Serb population to leave Sarajevo and even take the graves of their loved ones with them. In fact, such a large majority followed the instructions that parts of the city of Sarajevo remained deserted for months. The remnants of their loved ones have been buried in Bratunac after the war, but their deaths are presented as the result of actions taken by the Bosnian Army [ARBiH] units from Srebrenica.”(( Research and Documentation Center, “The Myth of Bratunac: A Blatant Numbers Game”, 7 June 2010, www.idc.org.ba.

And Aleks practice what you preach-but be prepared you're in for a shock.

Jovanovic should not have accepted the invitation with men-monster like Dodik. The latter KNOWS that pure genocide took place and tries to become a HERO by hidding it.
Jovanovic is the ONLY choice in Serbia, because he is brave to tell the truth in the face of anyone, no matter how radicals and nationalist hate it.

”The RS was created in 1992, three years before Srebrenica,” what a load of rubbish! The so-called "Republika Srpska" is another unfortunate offshoot from the failures of the international community to deal with the Bosnian crisis all of which is sadly portrayed in the Dayton Agreement which has made Bosnia today what it is signed in 1995.
The notion of 'Republika Srpska' was not even considered by the most cunning Serbian nationalists in 1992. We know exactly what they were trying to achieve then.... Greater Serbia at the expense of other non-Serbs!

Jovanovic has buried himself with this,Dodik was logical and countered with clear cut arguments while Jovanovic was hysterically screaming...
These foreign funded NGO politicians and parties must be chased out as soon as possible from Serbia!

BTW Very interesting to see that most of these "liberals" working for NGOs or expressing their anti Serb views were former communist establishment figures from the old SFRJ!

These people were in power when Serbs were terrorized in Kosovo during the 60s until the 80s and they did at that time nothing but to support Albanian extremists against their own people...

This guy needs to be thrown out of this country as soon as possible,I hope everybody understands now that Serb jugocommunists are the biggest enemy of the Serbian people,even more than all Albanian extremists put together!
They are the virus inside the national body!

Dodik had a good response to everything and Jovanovic just cemented his position as a CIA employee.

@bganon

You cannot blame those Serbs who express hate towards Jovanovic, the things that he comes out with are offensive and outright disrespectful to those who died in fighting for RS, and Kosovo for that matter. It does seem that people should be able to say what they want, but the LDP shouldn't be legal, the fact that it openly supports Kosovo's independence is an outright breach of Serbia's very constitution, and therefore an illegal act and political party. He paints the picture that Serbia and RS are completely different, yet the people speak the same language, have the same Orthodox Christian religion, same culture, and even the same colours in the same order on their flags, this man is a disgrace for making such ridiculous suggestions.

But all credit to Dodik, he is clearly the better debater, and more presentable. While Jovanovic sits there having a tantrum and getting angry with the shadows under his eyes and unshaved face, Dodik keeps composed and stays civil, while appearing like a decent political figure, Jovanovic is an utter joke with his 'facts' that he fails to back up.

"I am taking care of my country that is three months away from the elections...

So he says this only for votes. How cynically like... a politician. It was a major mistake for Dodik to do this tv program. It has only given free extra media exposure to Jovanovic who like leaders of all tiny parties, rely on controversy to protect their position as head of the party and get free media coverage abroad. I sometimes suspect that Jovanovic does his job because he is not employable anywhere else in serbia apart for in foreign funded NGOs and think tanks.

"I never admitted that genocide was committed in Srebrenica and I never will."

oh no its true...all those bodies were results of car crashes! you do not have to admit anything, the world has already condemned you for it. there are people who don't admit the holocaust as well

Jovanović responded that his statement that the RS had been created on genocide was a part of his "concern for his own country". What an embarrassment he (Jovanovic) and the LDP are for Serbia. If he was so concerned for his country, he would try and search for the truth in what actually happened in RS, Croatia, BiH, and Kosovo - and not just make CNN headline statements out of "concern". This former, I hope, drug addict is not even newsworthy, but since B92 likes to quote this person, please write a little about Jovanovic's background, B92. This former activist has done quite well for himself in the years since. He owns one of the most exclusive restaurants in BG, has numerous homes, villas, and even paved a road to his mother in laws house, on public funds. Did he accomplish all of this from his salary as a politician? Of course not! He is funded to say the things he says. I find him despicable, a sellout for profit, and with little concern about where Serbia is headed, unlike what he claims. I do admire Mr. Dodik though. He is a straight shooting politician, that says it like it is. Long live the RS, and all my Bosnian family and friends there.

So the trolls want to open this can of worms again...so be it...

The murder of over 3,000 Serbian villagers surrounding Srebrenica - men, women and children - by muslim forces commanded by Oric in the supposed de-militarized town of Srebrenica was dismissed by western powers with hardly a shrug of their hypocritical shoulders...

...yet, when Serb forces rolled into Srebrenica seeking revenge, bused all women and children - that wanted to leave - out of the town then battled Oric's well armed 8th Army that sought to break out towards Tuzla - killing up to 5,000 of these murderers - they are accused of genocide!?!

What blinding hypocrisy! The death of muslim soldiers that committed atrocities is lamented above the killing of defensless Serb women and children.

Shame on all of you.

On a final note I'm left wondering why some people have an obsession with Jovanovic. I know its like the old US Mcarthyism, but fixation and hatred are very unhealthy. We live in a democracy (sort of) and people have the right to express their views, whether we agree with them or not.
(bganon, 1 February 2012 15:09)
=============================

You really can't see past your own nose but try to appear well educated on all matters.
Yes, people do have the right to express their opinions and that's why this traitor is given too much air but what he said is unforgivable and highly offensive.
I am so surprised that as a Serb you don't find him offensive, or if you do you say nothing about that. All you do is condemn us for expressing our feeling towards him. Like he has right to express his opinion on almost everything, we too have our right to express our opinion of him and our feelings towards him. Why do you fight so hard to silence us by trying to insinuate that somehow we are wrong to express our strong views?

So for once do take a stand of what is actually said in the news and tell us how you feel about this man and what he says instead of just trying to sound on so superior to us. Yes, we know you are civilized and smart but do you have an opinion on what he said?

DEAN the Great,from the most beautiful city in the whole world:BERAT,ALBANIA.
(Dean, 1 February 2012 18:25)
=======================
This statement alone confirms you ridiculous and delusional you are.
I think your kids won't be able to see anything else but this statement and try to distance themselves from your thinking.
On the other hand they may not but whatever it won't matter to us.

Dodik is the only sane politician in that region.

Cedomir Jovanovic works for the United States-and the United States is a country founded on the genocide of its indigenous population and upon the enslavement of countless of millions of African people. Who has killed more muslims the United States or the Bosnian Serbs?

DEAN the Great,from the most beautiful city in the whole world:BERAT,ALBANIA.
(Dean, 1 February 2012 18:25)

Um Dean?

1. How do you personally know someone born in 1881?
2. What does Luma have to do with the Ceda-Dodik debate? In fact what does your entire copy/paste rant have to do with the Ceda-Dodik debate?
3. I've been to Berat. Lots of lovely Greek Orthodox churches there. Reminds me once again that many landmarks in Albania belong to other civilizations and mercifully survived the Dark Ages of Hoxha :)

Shame on all of you.
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 1 February 2012 17:13) No wonder Serbia will be going no where only peddling backwards here how the world sees it and the courts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre . The truth is never popular with criminals they are all innocent framed that is why well over 90% of the convicted are Serbs by ICTY. "A third accusation levelled at the Bosniak defenders of Srebrenica is that they provoked the Serb offensive by attacking out of that safe area. Even though this accusation is often repeated by international sources, there is no credible evidence to support it. Dutchbat personnel on the ground at the time assessed that the few "raids" the Bosniaks mounted out of Srebrenica were of little or no military significance. These raids were often organised in order to gather food, as the Serbs had refused access for humanitarian convoys into the enclave. Even Serb sources approached in the context of this report acknowledged that the Bosniak forces in Srebrenica posed no significant military threat to them. The biggest attack the Bosniaks launched out of Srebrenica during the more than two years during which it was designated a safe area appears to have been the raid on the village of Višnjica, on 26 June 1995, in which several houses were burned, up to four Serbs were killed and approximately 100 sheep were stolen. In contrast, the Serbs overran the enclave two weeks later, driving tens of thousands from their homes, and summarily executing thousands of men and boys. The Serbs repeatedly exaggerated the extent of the raids out of Srebrenica as a pretext for the prosecution of a central war aim: to create a geographically contiguous and ethnically pure territory along the Drina, while freeing their troops to fight in other parts of the country. The extent to which this pretext was accepted at face value by international actors and observers reflected the prism of "moral equivalency" through which the conflict in Bosnia was viewed by too many for too long.

Bill,

Kosovo is still part of Serbia according to UN1244,Kosovo can only be represented under this resolution,nothing else...

As for the EU keeping Serbia alive,don`t be ridiculous,they cant keep themselves alive...

The export to Russia and third countries this year alonne grew 50%,what the hell do we want with Europe which has closed its market for our agrocultural goods but wants free access to the Serbian market to dump their junk here..

We have no benefits from Europe,credits should be rolled over to Chinese and Russian lenders so we don`t depend on the MMF!

No compromises,Stevanovic!

Why all the hoopla some wonder about Ceda? Perhaps because he says things that doesn't jive with collective opinion. Perhaps because he gets more attention and media coverage saying something provocative than saying something intelligent. Perhaps he gained a few more supporters and a few more enemies battling it out with Dodik. Watching the debate reminded me of the senseless "debates" that happen in the US, where two diametrically opposed people shout at each other for an hour. Dodik "won" as far as I'm concerned because Ceda offers nothing other than scripted criticisms and the same blame-us-ignore-others rhetoric he always does, which is why his party barely gets 5% of the popular vote. Yet Ceda reminds me that Serbia is light years ahead of its more so-called "democratic" neighbors. Can anyone ever imagine someone in Croatia breaking away from the HDZero story and saying Storm was "ethnic cleansing", or calling Gotovina what he is, a war criminal? Can any Bosniak openly call Oric a war criminal? Can any Albanian condemn the 2004 pogroms, or call for an honest investigation into the organ trafficking case? No. Any one of these parallel Cedas would be forcibly silenced. In Kosovo's case, he'd end up with a bullet in his head by the end of the week. So cheer for Ceda not because he's intelligent (he's not) but because he can speak his mind in Serbia and only be laughed at.

A storm in a teacup really. We've heard and seen it all before and my sense is that nobody learns anything from these duels.

After watching it for over an hour I was reminded of how much time was wasted on debates between politicians in the past that everybody watched. These days most people (like myself) just don't bother wasting our time on them.

So Jovanovic will get some election coverage, so Dodik can return to Republika Srpska as a defender of Serb interests? So B92 managed to get good viewing figures for a midday slot, and perhaps if they are good enough this slot can be used for special 'duels' in the future, as advertisers will be interested.

On a final note I'm left wondering why some people have an obsession with Jovanovic. I know its like the old US Mcarthyism, but fixation and hatred are very unhealthy. We live in a democracy (sort of) and people have the right to express their views, whether we agree with them or not.

Mission impossible for Serbs to hear and accept the truth.

The statements of both politicians were correct. The RS was created in 1992 when Bosnia was still part of Yugoslavia, and the genocide was only in Srebrenica committed by General Krstic and his man according to the hague tribunal, and genocide was not committed by the people and/of the Republic Srpska.

I hope Mr Dodik will lead the RS to a prosperous path in the future. And I hope Mr Jovanovic will also follow the path of progress and love for Serbia instead of the money path!

Can someone tell me which restaurant in Belgrade Jovanovic owns?

I'd like to eat dinner there.

''...Jovanovic just cemented his position as a CIA employee.''
(mike, 1 February 2012 14:34)

Upssssssss..,here is another CIA employee i personally know:Dimitrije Tucović,Димитрије Туцовић,13 May 1881, Gostilje, Čajetina – November 1914, Vrače Brdo.
''We have carried out the attempted premeditated murder of an entire nation. We were caught in that criminal act and have been obstructed. Now we have to suffer the punishment.... In the Balkan Wars, Serbia not only DOUBLED its territory, but also its EXTERNAL ENEMIES''
Another Serbian Soldier(CIA employee)
The second Luma massacre (1913).
After the London Ambassador Conference decided that Luma should be within the Albanian state, the Serbian army initially refused to withdraw. Albanians raised a great rebellion in September 1913, after which Luma once again suffered harsh retaliation from the Serbian army. A report of the International Commission cited a letter of a Serbian soldier, who described the punitive expedition against the rebel Albanians:
"My dear Friend, I have no time to write to you at length, but I can tell you that appalling things are going on here. I am terrified by them, and constantly ask myself HOW MAN CAN BE SO barbarous as to commit such cruelties. It is horrible. I dare not tell you more, but I may say that Luma (an Albanian region along the river of the same name,Luma=River in ALBANIAN), no longer exists. There is nothing but CORPSES, DUST and ASHES. There are villages of 100, 150, 200 houses, where there is no longer a single man, literally not one. We collect them in bodies of forty to fifty, and then we pierce them with our bayonets to the last man. Pillage is going on everywhere. The officers told the soldiers to go to Prizren and sell the things they had stolen."
Source:Wikipedia
Hiding the Face behind the Finger,it seems that it is Serbian SPECIALITY,however,We,ALBANIANS,will Never Forgive,We will Never Forget.
At least,my kids are fully aware of the CRIMES u have committed against us.They will grow up 1 day.And before thumbing down my comment,start learning ur Proper History,no matter how UGLY it is.
DEAN the Great,from the most beautiful city in the whole world:BERAT,ALBANIA.

Lenard,

Convicted by what? The NATO-sponsored kangaroo court of the ICTY? The organiztion that led the dismemberment of Yugoslavia? That fought the Serbs and supported their enemies at every opportunity?

What a shocker?!?

It's a matter of your point of reference. In Serbia, Greece, Russia and China, its the U.S., Germany and their stooges that were the aggressor in the former Yugoslavia.

Naser Oric is documented for the murder of thousands of innocent Serbs yet the ICTY saw fit to dismiss all charges levied against...as their masters commanded.

It - like your silly post - is a sham.

Some sheep stolen and four Serbs killed? Really...

...the Toronto Star's Bill Schiller disagrees....

The Toronto Star
July 16, 1995, Sunday, Sunday Second Edition
Section: NEWS; Pg. A1
Length: 816 Words
Headline: Fearsome Muslim warlord eludes Bosnian Serb forces
Byline: Bill Schiller Toronto Star
Dateline: Belgrade, Yugoslavia

BELGRADE, Yugoslavia - When Bosnian Serb commander Gen. Ratko Mladic swept triumphantly into Srebrenica last week, he not only wanted to sweep Srebrenica clean of Muslims - he wanted Nasir Oric.

In Mladic's view, the powerfully built Muslim commander had made life too difficult and too deadly for Serb communities nearby.

Even though the Serbs had Srebrenica surrounded, Oric was still mounting commando raids by night against Serb targets.

Oric, as blood-thirsty a warrior as ever crossed a battlefield, escaped Srebrenica before it fell. Some believe he may be leading the Bosnian Muslim forces in the nearby enclaves of Zepa and Gorazde. Last night these forces seized armored personnel carriers and other weapons from U.N. peacekeepers in order to better protect themselves.

Oric is a fearsome man, and proud of it.

I met him in January, 1994, in his own home in Serb-surrounded Srebrenica.

On a cold and snowy night, I sat in his living room watching a shocking video version of what might have been called Nasir Oric's Greatest Hits.

There were burning houses, dead bodies, severed heads, and people fleeing.

Oric grinned throughout, admiring his handiwork.

"We ambushed them," he said when a number of dead Serbs appeared on the screen.

The next sequence of dead bodies had been done in by explosives: "We launched those guys to the moon," he boasted.

When footage of a bullet-marked ghost town appeared without any visible bodies, Oric hastened to announce: "We killed 114 Serbs there."

Later there were celebrations, with singers with wobbly voices chanting his praises.

These video reminiscences, apparently, were from what Muslims regard as Oric's glory days. That was before most of eastern Bosnia fell and Srebrenica became a "safe zone" with U.N. peacekeepers inside - and Serbs on the outside.

Lately, however, Oric increased his hit-and-run attacks at night. And in Mladic's view, it was far too successful for a community that was supposed to be suppressed.

The Serbs regard Oric, once Serb President Slobodan Milosevic's personal bodyguard, as a war criminal.

But they don't want to send him to the international war crimes tribunal in The Hague, Netherlands. They want to track him down and kill him.

The only songs they want sung of Nasir Oric are funeral dirges.

But that hasn't happened.

Srebrenica, surrounded by 3,000 armed Serbs as it was then, was a strange town. It held a desperate kind of life - a life in suspended animation.

People talked about what they used to do, or used to be. Or about what they would do or would become once they were free again.

Sleeping beneath the sheltering sky near Tuzla as Srebrenica's surviving residents did last week - after having been driven from their homes - was not in their catalogue of expectations.

I remember steep streets lined with snow and, everywhere, firewood.

Srebrenica, an old silver mining town, was built to hold 4,500 residents, but was then crammed with 22,500. And the overall pocket, some 14 kilometres wide by 16 kilometres long, had swelled to 46,000 in all.

It had the look and feel of an overcrowded, somewhat dilapidated, ski resort town.

But it was anything but.

Still, people were friendly. The face of an outsider, an unexplained newcomer, came as a pleasant surprise to them and I was welcomed into their homes, served tea brewed on makeshift firewood stoves, and treated with kindness.

There was, even then, some tension in the air about our Canadian peacekeepers there. But they were still doing a good job - even an excellent one - despite extraordinarily high expectations.

I got into Srebrenica by convincing Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic that the time was right for a journalist to visit. None had been allowed for more than 100 days. People were wondering what was going on behind the curtain.

In the end, another journalist asked to come along. He had a vehicle, and I didn't. It was a good trade-off.

But what we smelled there, besides the smoke of a thousand and one cooking fires, was the slow death of hope.

No one wanted to admit it was a hopeless situation. They wanted to believe that someone, something, perhaps some extraordinary act of fate, was going to save them and their town.

They just didn't know what it was. And that not knowing ate away at them, just as their thinning food supplies, having been choked off by the Serbs, did.

At the very end of the only real street that led all the way down into the town and became, in effect, main street, I'll always remember dozens of kids taking turns whizzing across a pool of sheer ice, their bottoms protected by worn pieces of thin cardboard.

We don't use the word "glee" anymore. But that's what it was then. Glee on Main Street, Downtown Srebrenica.

A bit of laughter against the cold. A bit of glee in the face of inevitable doom.

If 'someone' accuses my brother of something? You mean if my brother accuses another brother of something, don't you? Anyway these are not my brothers, these are politicians for God's sake! Finally, I might just reply if you actually raise a specific point from their discussion rather than just lecture me on what I should be thinking.
(bganon, 2 February 2012 11:14)
==============================

You really are something bganon. You belong in politics yourself because again you totally ignored direct questions.
I did not say that either Dodik or Cedo were your brothers. I referred to Serbian people in RS as your brothers but if you don't see that then fine you don't consider other Serbs your brothers.

You know very well that it is the people of RS who Cedo accused of genocide because saying that RS was created on genocide is accusing the people of RS.

So again, for the last time, will you answer my questions or not? Don't try to fob me off with rubbish like this was only entertainment. It was not for many and it is a very serious accusation and matter for many.
Bgannon, it is YOU who was lecturing all of us that prompted me to respond with my own questions as you have not said one way or the other if you agree with Cedo and if it upsets you that Serbs (ok not your brothers) in RS are accused of such things.

Unless you are prepared to answer the questions, don't bother giving me the spin which you are obviously so good at.

Sorry Bgannon, but what Cedo said was very inflammatory and insulting.
I feel sad that you don't see that and that a statement of that magnitude does nothing for you.
You keep dancing around the issue, but how do you feel about that statement?
Do you agree with Cedo and as a Serb how can it not stir up any emotion in you?
When someone says lies about you or your ethnic brothers across the river do you not care and only worry about entertainment value of what is said?
If someone accuses your brothers unjustly do you have no feelings toward that person? Geez, you must be a very cool cucumber indeed or just don't give a damn about Serbs in RS or simply don't care about the truth.
Which is it? Pick one. I have asked you direct questions and it would only be fair to answer them directly.

It is true that what Mr. Jovanovic said, about RS in Bosnia and Hercegovina, and its artificial creation of the genocide, and still has the same purpose in Kosovo.

Serbia was the biggest and most influential republic in the former Yugoslavia. In Yugoslavia they controlled almost everything, from army to money to writing of history. That was not enough, they wanted it all. Today, Serbia is politically isolated, financially weaker, much smaller in size. Nationalists still run Serbia and their policy is going to force the region of Sandzak to ask for its independence. Kosovo is forever gone.
Jovanovic (meaning-people who think like him) is the only hope for Serbia and Serbians as people.

Cedomir Jovanovic works for the United States-and the United States is a country founded on the genocide of its indigenous population and upon the enslavement of countless of millions of African people. Who has killed more muslims the United States or the Bosnian Serbs?
(Budimir, 1 February 2012 19:04)

I thought Slavs (Serbs) did the same when they moved to Balkans.

Mission impossible for Serbs to hear and accept the truth.
(dori tirana, 1 February 2012 23:23)

Wow, how sad that you have to come and read about Serbian news articles that have nothing to do with you.

How sad that you just come to disparage Serbs on a Serbian/English news website.

We don't even care about your Tirana news websites or whatever is happening in your crappy country. So why do you come read our news and comment on Serbs?

It's really pathetic and I hope you can see this.

PS: c) you deep down inside feel inferior to Serbs and Serbia and you suffer from tall poppy syndrome. By cutting down those who you envy to make yourselves feel bigger and stronger and more valid.

Boring Albanians have nothing better to do than come hate on a Serbian/English news website. Really says a lot about your people and the issues you carry & will inevitably carry with you forever.

The Toronto Star story offered up by Nemanja was intended to make Oric out to be the villain, but I have to say, it does little to flatter the Serb forces holding Srebrenica under siege. Choking off food supplies? So, what? Starve civilians to death in the cold of winter? I'd rather a bullet. And why hadn't Karadzic permitted journalists into the pocket for more than three months? What was he trying to hide?

The Israeli Foreign Affairs Minister visited RS and issued an invitation to Milorad Dodik to officially visit the state of Israel, the Bosniaks wrote to Israel demanding that they revoke such invitation because Dodik was a denier of the Srebrenica holocaust.

The reply was that the Srebrenica incident was NOT genocide but at best a war crime and nothing else. In actual fact the Israeli representative stopped short of calling it an outright lie.

Now for all these people calling it genocide go and buy yourself a good dictionary and look up the word genocide then you maybe able to move on in your lives.

Any who relies on the wording from the Tribunal in the Hague as a guide to words is a first class idiot. The judiciary that sit on those benches are the scrapings of the bottom of the legal fraternity barrel who could not spell their own names let alone give an interpretation on a complex matter – why do you think that not one judge that sat or currently sits on that Tribunal is a person of note in the legal field?

Cedo is a pathetic fool who trying to get points with his western masters.

Judging by the space devoted by this article to Jovanovic's statements and the continously self-contradictory cretinous crap of Dodik, respectively, it would seem that the former hardly got a word in. Interesting way of covering what is supposed to have been a two-way discussion.

Jovanovic should absolutely be free to declare his views -- however cynical they might be -- on the foundations of RS. In the end, it will simply be up to Serbian voters to decide whether to back his political platform.

It is interesting that he continues to rankle so many nerves with comments that many Serbs treat as rubbish. Why so much sensitivity? Why not simply write him off as a lunatic and ignore what he says? Or is it that he gnaws at some uncomfortable truth lurking deep within the Serbian psyche?

A comment was made earlier that this particular debate is getting old and uninteresting but I rather like that the subject is still alive and kicking nearly two decades later. For the people of the region to move on and live in peace, we must arrive at the truth. It's true that many of us have watched and listened to what politicians have to say on these matters over and over again, but what about our children? Our grandchildren? What about those whose notions might change over time on the arrival of new information?

On the topic of Srebrenica in particular, all of the events in that area were horrible, whether the massacre led by Mladic in 1995 or the ones led by Oric in earlier years. And there were many other atrocities committed by all side on other fronts. Please, let us conjure up all the logic and objectivity we can muster and examine FACTS, not MYTHS. And let us start with the rise of nationalist figures in the 1980s, and not specific events that happened in one corner of Bosnia starting in 1992.

Let's even go back further than the 1980s. What conditions existed in Balkan society before that period which could allow the prospect of a violent dissolution of Yugoslavia to become acceptable to so many of her citizens?

It's a long, complicated, sad, ugly riddle that needs to be solved in order for peace, healing and prosperity to really take root.

The original founding "genocide" would be the Ottoman occupation. That was some five hundred years of slavery. If this self-hating fool from the LDP thinks he is a good "Western" boy for saying nasty things about his people, he's over ten years late. I understand he is the member of a minor party that needs to be provocative to get attention. Once again: the RS is an accomplished fact, the Croats want their own entity and the Bosnian Moslems are viewed with suspicion by the West. I'm sure the LDP's masters in Germany, Turkey and the US are not interested in a real debate about "genocide. I am disgusted that Bosnia's Moslems continue to pressure for the destruction of the RS. That is an incitement to genocide. Have we had enough "genocide" talk? Now let's move on. Hands off the RS.

Avni
Have in mind that according to Russian history Russians came from the Balkans) So how can Slavs come from the north if they where not living there? also think about Swedish people similar genetics like western Balkan people/Sardinia and Moldova), and they call themselves Sverige where Finns call them Rutsi (S(v)erbi/rusi) :P
According to German history Slavs even came in Ukraine in the 6th century, Slavs suddenly appeared in the 6th century as if they never excited before.. (History is total wrong and needs to be revised)
(check this: the word hi"STORY" has no meaning in greek and ancient greek, in Slavic it means "it(past) happened" And history mean and it happened or better: something that has happened (in the past), would fit for that word ;)

Slavs lived and still are living in whole Europe!
(for many people their language is lost but in genetics they live forth)
(english is a made language celtic/latin/german mix) Everyone who speaks a latin language lost thier celtic/latin language. For example any slav can read galic without problems!
Slavic means in English "GLORIOUS" Every Slav should be proud of it like our Celtic brothers! (Celt also means Glorious) So both people are Glorious people and let these two people be the ancestors of most modern Europeans :)

Milorad Dodik is one uneducated person he has no clue what he was talking about. I wish he goes home and watch's the interview so he can see what he was saying it didn’t make any sense , first of all I was in Sarajevo last year and there is lots of Serbs living there and working there and there is lots Serbian Churches untouched. There was lots of Serbs who fought for the Sarajevo and lost there loved ones in the war, second of all there is lots Bosnjaks who helped Serbs and saved them from getting killed. I just can’t believe that people still listen someone like Dodik , just like Cedomir said he is the one that’s spreading negative attitude and hate between Bosnjaks , Hrvats , Srbes. I wish someone steps in there and takes control in RS and Bosnia as well because in Bosnia there is lots of bad Bosnjaks running the country and bad politics. And Cedomir is not working for USA and he is not CIA agent. He is one smart and Jung person trying to help people and take them to the right direction. Thank You from NEW YORK.

"...the Toronto Star's Bill Schiller disagrees...."

ha ha...i love this, a newspaper article has more credebiltiy than an actual investigation in the case. only a very paranoid individual (ahem, in this case a hard nationalist) would suggest such a thing. what next, Lincoln was assasinated by Albanians? p.s. RS WAS the product of genocide and it will FOREVER be linked to Srebrenica, no matter your denials, your protestations and whatnot. history has already condemned you for it. p.s. look at the prinores in the Hague, guess which nationality they mostly come form? oh i ofrget, its all propaganda right?

Dino Nezirevic I can tell you that you are lying about it all.
I am in constant contact with people who had to flee and lost everything and they tell me that there are no Serbs living there. A few Serbs who are still around does not mean that Serbian population is well and still there.
I have relatives there and even some Muslims who have come from there before the war and who I know have said that there are cafes in Sarajevo they would not go to again because of fear of guns present even though they were their favourite when then lived there.
All the Serbs we knew when we used to live there way before the war ( I was a child when we left) are no longer there. They are either dead or driven out.
So don't preach to me who has access to information from people who were there and no longer age and some who are still there.

Cedomir Jovanovic works for the United States-and the United States is a country founded on the genocide of its indigenous population and upon the enslavement of countless of millions of African people. Who has killed more muslims the United States or the Bosnian Serbs?
(Budimir, 1 February 2012 19:04)

I thought Slavs (Serbs) did the same when they moved to Balkans.
(Avni, 1 February 2012 23:04)

Africans lived in the Balkans?

LOL um Dean?

1. "It is impossible 4 me 2 have meet Tucovic in person.DON'T U THINK LIKE ME???

Certainly not, thank God :)

2. You still didn't explain the relevance of your Balkan Wars copy/paste argument. What does that have to do with Ceda-Dodik? Doesn't Ceda's opinions contradict your "Finger before the Face" whatever whatever you're trying to say? I don't know what you're trying to say other than throw in something completely off topic with the belief you actually have a point to make in relation to the article or a someone else's comment. So ok, I'll make you happy: yes this article had nothing to do with Albanian suffering at the hands of Serbs. It's good that someone like you came around to bring that topic up :)

3. I never really thought where the northern boundaries of Northern Epirus was. I always thought Gjirokastër was certainly part of it, but seeing all the "Byzantine" churches there makes me wonder how much Greek civilization existed in Albania before Hoxha turned it into a little North Korea.

Seriously "bro", calm down. Mashing out an emotional rant with lots of caps and punctuation marks, not to mention frequent use of SMS-text typing makes you appear like some angry little 16 year old. Please refrain from telling anyone from learning history or getting an education until you sound slightly more mature, or at least know how not to butcher the English language :)

Peggy do you see the difference between expressing an opinion on a policy, advocating or opposing that policy and expressing hatred for that person because of their opinion?

If you want to make it about personalities or essentially dumb down the argument by making people and not issues the important thing that is your choice, but its my perogative to not bother with that hate thing. Its a little creepy to be talking about my feelings for a man I've never met. And if you are asking me if I'm going to believe everything written about him in the media then answer is no. I don't believe them either.

As for what he said, he said the same thing he's been saying for years, just as Dodik said the same thing. Its tedious to talk about the same things over and it got them (and gets us) nowhere. Frankly I think my time was wasted watching and I'm not going to go into depth any more than this.

It was a duel after all, it wasn't even designed to help us come to an educated opinion. This was a battle between politicians to see who would win, for our entertainment. For much of the show it looked as if Jovanovic was getting the upper hand, as he's quicker than Dodik, but Dodik always managed to deliver a few heavy blows towards the end of each conversation.

As I said in the end its nothing to do with reality of Republika Srpska and Kosovo, it was everything to do with Jovanovic and Dodik. Both men will come away reasonably happy.

Peggy can't you just accept that not everybody gets as emotional as you do?
As I said this was for our 'entertainment' and the aim of the politicians was to play on our feelings, if you want to fall for that this is your choice. I have seen too much to keep falling for the same stuff over and over.

If 'someone' accuses my brother of something? You mean if my brother accuses another brother of something, don't you? Anyway these are not my brothers, these are politicians for God's sake! Finally, I might just reply if you actually raise a specific point from their discussion rather than just lecture me on what I should be thinking.

Dodik is a very ignorant man and politician, what a fool!

3. I've been to Berat. Lots of lovely Greek Orthodox churches there. Reminds me once again that many landmarks in Albania belong to other civilizations and mercifully survived the Dark Ages of Hoxha :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 1 February 2012 21:55)
From Serbian point of view but only Serbian you are right. The Albanian civilization has never existed. We hope that Serbs civilize us. Don’t feel too bad the day that you will learn and accept that we are Illyrian. I have only one question for you. When Albanian comes to Balkan? Please prepare and don’t tell me this ridiculous story of George Maniac.

If Serbs were smart enough not to fall for fools who speak the nationalist language, they'd still have Kosovo today and probably would be ruling over most of Yugoslavia.
But words of victimization are music to your ears, you can't help it. And you'll be forever stuck with morons wrapped with a flag leading you to nowhere land where they rule and get rich while you're drunk in imaginary glory.
Sorry for those, who don't deserve to share the same fate with you.

Um Dean?

1. How do you personally know someone born in 1881?
2. What does Luma have to do with the Ceda-Dodik debate? In fact what does your entire copy/paste rant have to do with the Ceda-Dodik debate?
3. I've been to Berat. Lots of lovely Greek Orthodox churches there. Reminds me once again that many landmarks in Albania belong to other civilizations and mercifully survived the Dark Ages of Hoxha :)
(Balkan Anthropologist, 1 February 2012 21:55)
1-His theoretical work,i meant.Be smart.It is impossible 4 me 2 have meet Tucovic in person.DON'T U THINK LIKE ME???
2-I guess u didn't read the letter sent by a Serbian soldier,the ''CIA employee''.Nothing 2 do with '' Ceda-Dodik debate'',but ironically replying to ''mike''.However,as i wrote on my previous comment:If u Serbs like 2 hide the Face behind the Finger,there is nothing i can do.It might be something of culture trait 2 You.But what i can do is to REMIND you the crimes u have committed throughout the History,which in very Elegant or Brutal way,CEDA is doing right now in ur country.
My ''Copy&Paste attitude''???I already stressed the source of information,as i am sure that Serbs don't like reading an entire book.Just 4 practical reasons.
3-You are going further than the ''Greek Patriots''themselves.
Not even THEM consider BERAT as their own territory.And guess what,i am talking about Greeks,who still believe in ''talking snakes'' and ''flying horses'',let alone if they see a ''Greek church'' in BERAT city.They will take the ''matter''to UN.However,when it comes to ''Greek churches'',it seems that You,my ''dear'' friend,can't make the difference between Byzantine Empire and Greek civilization.It is a similar problem with greeks as well.Read and learn,''bro''.
Hoxha?!,i don't care about him.But i am surprized u said nothing about my Beautiful city,BERAT.

(Peggy, 1 February 2012 21:27)
''Peggy''?!?!?!?,ZOTI/God is a witness,But i am telling u girl,You are a source of Dark Energy to me.I have met so many ''Bad'' people in my life,of different nationalities,Liars,Lunatics,Idiots,Killers,Nationalists,people who like Horror movies and Voodoo Rituals..etc.,but no 1 ever archived to make me feel so Depressed and Scared,like u do.HONESTLY.Even tho.,i never met or spoke to You,i have 2 admit that i am afraid of you.There is 2 much HATRED on you,girl,and honestly i don't like 2 establish any form of communication with You.
Despite saying that,u might be a Lovely human being,but this is the feeling i experience every time i read ur comments,and i do Trust my Instinct more than the theory of Relativity itself.
DEAN the Great,from the most beautiful city in the world,BERAT,ALBANIA.

Serbia was the biggest and most influential republic in the former Yugoslavia. In Yugoslavia they controlled almost everything, from army to money to writing of history...
(fajko, 1 February 2012 21:06)

Would you mind listing the backgrounds of the heads of the army, airforce and navy at the end of the SFRY? Or maybe the backgrounds of the Prime Minister and Minsters at the end of the SFRY? To write so much yet know so little of who did what and where in the SFRY is an indictment of your ability to separate reality from opinion. There's this thing called the 'Internet' (here's a clue, you've been already using it) and most of this stuff can be easily checked. Why can't you?

http://danieltoljaga.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/the-1992-suha-massacre-one-of-reasons-why-naser-oric-attacked-kravica-in-1993/

Dodik as always is playing with history, amongst other things- his version of RS was declared before Srebrenica's horrors but it was not until the Accord was signed that RS was given any territorial or constitutional significance, in effect Dayton 'created' RS as the RS of Dodik's fantasy was somewhat larger and cruder in structure.
By banging the 'what is and what is not genocide in Srebrenica' he skilfully distracts from the reality of his compatriot's 'ethnic culling' plan that devastated eastern and northern Bosnia. The concentration and time frame of numbers of dead in Srebrenica are shameful but the accumulation of similar numbers from the separate horrors of places like Foca, Prijedor,Visegrad, Zvornik,Brcko is equally as shameful and indicative of a grand plan that smells to us ordinary folk like genocide.

I note the Bill Schiller's article from the Toronto Star gets a special feature- please also note that his claims were never corroborated with a photo or log or any evidence beyond his claims. Nor has he ever accepted to appear at a hearing where perjury is an option nor has the mysterious damning tape he referred to ever surfaced.

As for the numbers of pravoslavci fatalities; “The allegations that Serb casualties in Bratunac, between April 1992 and December 1995 amount to over three thousand is an evident falsification of facts…. After all the sources have been processed, cross-referenced and reviewed, the results showed that 119 civilians and 424 soldiers… died in Bratunac during the war.“ and
“Under the Dayton Peace Accords, the suburbs of Sarajevo held by the VRS [Bosnian Serb Army] were to be re-integrated into the city of Sarajevo. The then leadership of the RS [Republika Srpska] called on the local Serb population to leave Sarajevo and even take the graves of their loved ones with them. In fact, such a large majority followed the instructions that parts of the city of Sarajevo remained deserted for months. The remnants of their loved ones have been buried in Bratunac after the war, but their deaths are presented as the result of actions taken by the Bosnian Army [ARBiH] units from Srebrenica.”(( Research and Documentation Center, “The Myth of Bratunac: A Blatant Numbers Game”, 7 June 2010, www.idc.org.ba.

And Aleks practice what you preach-but be prepared you're in for a shock.