UNSC to debate Kosovo on February 8

"Vuk Jeremić said on the occasion in New York that Serbia would continue to call for peace and security, and advocated dialogue as a solution to the problem."

All right....) A solution according to Serbian constitution which was approved unilateraly if you like. The differences are so far....and growing more and more apart....

Yes, Winston, I do believe that Kosovo is still a UN protectorate. I assume it will take some sort of resolution to change that. I expect that it will be a protectorate for some time, at least in the purest sense of the word "protectorate" where the UN is protecting Kosovo and providing for the security of the country through KFOR.

However, there are several things that indicate many people are either in denial of or wishing to ignore regarding Kosovo being a UN protectorate.

What is said: Serbia is loving to parade 1244 around, as if somehow it was something that they insisted upon, and that it first and foremost protects Serbia's interests.

Reality: Resolution 1244 was meant to protect Albanians in Kosovo from Serbia, and signing it was a bitter pill for Serbia to swallow. However, one consequence of losing a war, particularly one that you started and that ends up in your own country, is that you sometimes have to make peace, however painful it might be, so signing 1244 was better than having the bombing continue. As for 1244 protecting Serbia's interests, it actually removed Serbian forces and police from the ground in Kosovo. This was done to provide a path forward to later find a solution for Kosovo.

What is said: The UN administers Kosovo.

Reality: The UN is largely gone, with the exception of some of the humanitarian parts (it is now less than 1/10 the size that it was). As far as administration, the UN has handed that task off to EULEX and the ICO (which is ran by the International Steering Group). EULEX is going to reduce staff dramatically this summer (about 50%), and the ICO is closing by the end of 2012, so it is looking like less and less international administration for Kosovo. I have mixed feelings about this, since on the one hand, I think that the international presence prevents the Kosovo government from growing up and acting responsibly, but on the other hand, I am not sure that they are ready for this yet.

All right....) A solution according to Serbian constitution which was approved unilateraly if you like. The differences are so far....and growing more and more apart....EA
Well, I do believe that Pristina came up with a unilateral constitution of its own, Ben. Who's is the real and legal one? That's what these talks are about. Just because Pristina says, we are independent, and the US and accomplices say OK, does not make KiM independent Albanian land. Have you obtained a UN seat, like a real country? This is a real new nation, Kosovo is a UN protectorate. http://www.christianpost.com/news/south-sudan-inducted-in-united-nations-52450/

Kosovo is a UN protectorate. [link]/
(winston, 27 January 2012 14:35)
You say this so proudly, do you not realize what it says. The UN is protecting Kosovo from ....YOU. How is it that Serbs can be proud of this fact?
"Demands in particular that the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia put an immediate and verifiable end to violence and repression in Kosovo, and begin and complete verifiable phased withdrawal from Kosovo of all military, police and paramilitary forces"

Not only France, UK and US felt that Kosovo had to be protected from YOUR fellow countrymen, but also Russia and the rest of the Security Council, the only country that did not vote for it was China and they abstained.
And YOU want to remind the world everyday that the UN had to come together to protect almost 2 million people from violence that YOUR country was responsible for.
Glenn, a most excellent post!

"territorial integrity and sovereignty of Serbia."

I chuckled at this text from the article. Serbia is far from a sovereign nation.

Serbia is a partially recognized territory, full stop.


Sincerely,

Glenn, UNSCR1244 was not a bitter pill to swallow for Serbia. If it had been offered instead of Rambouillet then there wouldn't have been any bombing because the two unacceptable terms in Rambouillet, being NATO to occupy all of Serbia and independence for KiM, were removed from UNSCR1244.

It was NATO who approached Russia to negotiate with Serbia to find a solution as Germany was heading for political disaster internally and they needed to end the bombing of Yugoslavia quickly.

What is clear now is that this resolution gets in the way of NATO, Germany and "Kosova". Serbia does have a say about it via Russia and China (our allies).

"I have mixed feelings about this, since on the one hand, I think that the international presence prevents the Kosovo government from growing up and acting responsibly, but on the other hand, I am not sure that they are ready for this yet."
(Glenn, 27 January 2012 18:01)

Ehh? The international presence STOPS the 'democratically elected' Kosovo government from acting responsible? Isn't it quite the opposite: Without EULEX and international presence, there would be even less rule of law, even more corruption and wasting of donor money, more unilateral actions which incite violence.

Actually UN should separate warring sides.

If Kosovo is an independent country then why the UN is doing this?

Switzerland did not want to join UN.
Kosovo wants to join UN (but can't as it is a Serbian province).

Quite a difference, I would say!

Have you obtained a UN seat, like a real country?
(winston, 27 January 2012 14:35)

Vatican is not a real country ?! Switzerland was not a real country until 2003 ?! No real countries existed before 1945 ?! Dear, are you having hallucinations ?
----------

This is a real new nation, Kosovo is a UN protectorate. [link]/
(winston, 27 January 2012 14:35)

Kosovo is much better than that new nation, dear. That new nation in only recognized by a fraction of the number of countries which do recognize Kosovo.
----------

Glenn, UNSCR1244 was not a bitter pill to swallow for Serbia.
(Zoran, 27 January 2012 18:57)

Really ?! Should we believe you or Serbia who said that 1244 is one of the darkest pages of UNSC’s history and is instrumental in the de facto dismemberment of a sovereign European State
----------

If Kosovo is an independent country then why the UN is doing this?
(Ron, 28 January 2012 04:35)

Ok, we don’t have to argue about it. All Albanians in Kosovo cared about is to be independent from Serbia. So, if it makes you happy, we can agree that Kosovo is independent from Serbia but is not independent from UN.

Switzerland did not want to join UN.
Kosovo wants to join UN (but can't as it is a Serbian province).

Quite a difference, I would say!
(Ron, 28 January 2012 19:21)

Kosovo has not applied for UN membership, exactly as Switzerland until 2003. No difference at all.

In any case the criteria we are speaking about is UN membership, not wishes about UN membership :)

These meetings are futile, because of the veto-wielding actors on both sides of the table and they have ended up being mere propaganda.

If you compare the talking points and the transcripts of these meetings over the last four years, it is evident that Kosovo has been progressing. Tiny steps, I agree, but with every passing day, the independent Kosovo is cemented as an established reality.

In the end of the day, reality is what matters as this is becoming a clash between symbolic and common sense.

"territorial integrity and sovereignty of Serbia."

I chuckled at this text from the article. Serbia is far from a sovereign nation.

Serbia is a partially recognized territory, full stop.


Sincerely,

Glenn, UNSCR1244 was not a bitter pill to swallow for Serbia. If it had been offered instead of Rambouillet then there wouldn't have been any bombing because the two unacceptable terms in Rambouillet, being NATO to occupy all of Serbia and independence for KiM, were removed from UNSCR1244.

It was NATO who approached Russia to negotiate with Serbia to find a solution as Germany was heading for political disaster internally and they needed to end the bombing of Yugoslavia quickly.

What is clear now is that this resolution gets in the way of NATO, Germany and "Kosova". Serbia does have a say about it via Russia and China (our allies).

All right....) A solution according to Serbian constitution which was approved unilateraly if you like. The differences are so far....and growing more and more apart....EA
Well, I do believe that Pristina came up with a unilateral constitution of its own, Ben. Who's is the real and legal one? That's what these talks are about. Just because Pristina says, we are independent, and the US and accomplices say OK, does not make KiM independent Albanian land. Have you obtained a UN seat, like a real country? This is a real new nation, Kosovo is a UN protectorate. http://www.christianpost.com/news/south-sudan-inducted-in-united-nations-52450/

"I have mixed feelings about this, since on the one hand, I think that the international presence prevents the Kosovo government from growing up and acting responsibly, but on the other hand, I am not sure that they are ready for this yet."
(Glenn, 27 January 2012 18:01)

Ehh? The international presence STOPS the 'democratically elected' Kosovo government from acting responsible? Isn't it quite the opposite: Without EULEX and international presence, there would be even less rule of law, even more corruption and wasting of donor money, more unilateral actions which incite violence.

Kosovo is a UN protectorate. [link]/
(winston, 27 January 2012 14:35)
You say this so proudly, do you not realize what it says. The UN is protecting Kosovo from ....YOU. How is it that Serbs can be proud of this fact?
"Demands in particular that the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia put an immediate and verifiable end to violence and repression in Kosovo, and begin and complete verifiable phased withdrawal from Kosovo of all military, police and paramilitary forces"

Not only France, UK and US felt that Kosovo had to be protected from YOUR fellow countrymen, but also Russia and the rest of the Security Council, the only country that did not vote for it was China and they abstained.
And YOU want to remind the world everyday that the UN had to come together to protect almost 2 million people from violence that YOUR country was responsible for.
Glenn, a most excellent post!

Actually UN should separate warring sides.

Yes, Winston, I do believe that Kosovo is still a UN protectorate. I assume it will take some sort of resolution to change that. I expect that it will be a protectorate for some time, at least in the purest sense of the word "protectorate" where the UN is protecting Kosovo and providing for the security of the country through KFOR.

However, there are several things that indicate many people are either in denial of or wishing to ignore regarding Kosovo being a UN protectorate.

What is said: Serbia is loving to parade 1244 around, as if somehow it was something that they insisted upon, and that it first and foremost protects Serbia's interests.

Reality: Resolution 1244 was meant to protect Albanians in Kosovo from Serbia, and signing it was a bitter pill for Serbia to swallow. However, one consequence of losing a war, particularly one that you started and that ends up in your own country, is that you sometimes have to make peace, however painful it might be, so signing 1244 was better than having the bombing continue. As for 1244 protecting Serbia's interests, it actually removed Serbian forces and police from the ground in Kosovo. This was done to provide a path forward to later find a solution for Kosovo.

What is said: The UN administers Kosovo.

Reality: The UN is largely gone, with the exception of some of the humanitarian parts (it is now less than 1/10 the size that it was). As far as administration, the UN has handed that task off to EULEX and the ICO (which is ran by the International Steering Group). EULEX is going to reduce staff dramatically this summer (about 50%), and the ICO is closing by the end of 2012, so it is looking like less and less international administration for Kosovo. I have mixed feelings about this, since on the one hand, I think that the international presence prevents the Kosovo government from growing up and acting responsibly, but on the other hand, I am not sure that they are ready for this yet.

"Vuk Jeremić said on the occasion in New York that Serbia would continue to call for peace and security, and advocated dialogue as a solution to the problem."

All right....) A solution according to Serbian constitution which was approved unilateraly if you like. The differences are so far....and growing more and more apart....

If Kosovo is an independent country then why the UN is doing this?

Have you obtained a UN seat, like a real country?
(winston, 27 January 2012 14:35)

Vatican is not a real country ?! Switzerland was not a real country until 2003 ?! No real countries existed before 1945 ?! Dear, are you having hallucinations ?
----------

This is a real new nation, Kosovo is a UN protectorate. [link]/
(winston, 27 January 2012 14:35)

Kosovo is much better than that new nation, dear. That new nation in only recognized by a fraction of the number of countries which do recognize Kosovo.
----------

Glenn, UNSCR1244 was not a bitter pill to swallow for Serbia.
(Zoran, 27 January 2012 18:57)

Really ?! Should we believe you or Serbia who said that 1244 is one of the darkest pages of UNSC’s history and is instrumental in the de facto dismemberment of a sovereign European State
----------

If Kosovo is an independent country then why the UN is doing this?
(Ron, 28 January 2012 04:35)

Ok, we don’t have to argue about it. All Albanians in Kosovo cared about is to be independent from Serbia. So, if it makes you happy, we can agree that Kosovo is independent from Serbia but is not independent from UN.

Switzerland did not want to join UN.
Kosovo wants to join UN (but can't as it is a Serbian province).

Quite a difference, I would say!

Switzerland did not want to join UN.
Kosovo wants to join UN (but can't as it is a Serbian province).

Quite a difference, I would say!
(Ron, 28 January 2012 19:21)

Kosovo has not applied for UN membership, exactly as Switzerland until 2003. No difference at all.

In any case the criteria we are speaking about is UN membership, not wishes about UN membership :)

These meetings are futile, because of the veto-wielding actors on both sides of the table and they have ended up being mere propaganda.

If you compare the talking points and the transcripts of these meetings over the last four years, it is evident that Kosovo has been progressing. Tiny steps, I agree, but with every passing day, the independent Kosovo is cemented as an established reality.

In the end of the day, reality is what matters as this is becoming a clash between symbolic and common sense.