aaay a few things here:
1) Kosovo wasn't/isn't only Albanian land and a lot of Serbs opposed giving it to Albanians in Tito time and for good reason
- True but Kosovo isn't only Serbian land either. If Albanians according to you can't have it all why should the Serbs? You know it and every single Serb knows it. There is no logical reason. The only excuse Sebs use is that they simply are entitled because they feel they're better people. This view the Serbs have for themselves is recognized by almost all other Balkan Nations. Too be frank it's the same attitude that Russians have; and while Russians may be excused due to their past glory days as a superpower, the Serbs and for that matter just about every other Balkan Nation have done nothing in the past 2 thousand years that would justify their holier than thou attitudes.
2) If you look at 60-70-80 statistics you will see dramatic changes in Kosovo ethnic composition - sharp increase of Albanian population (probably there couldn't be such increase without migrants from Albania) and decrease of Serbian population with perspective of ethnically pure Albanian Kosovo and there was natural reaction on it from Serbian side.
- You've become pray of Serbian propaganda and here's why
- Kosova was the poorest region in Jugoslavia. What would motivate a Slav Speaking people such as Kosova Serb to suffer poverty in Kosova rather than migrate to another richer slav speaking region of jugoslavia.
- in the period you are speaking of Albania had less than 2 million people. Yet you maintain that we populated Kosova, Macedonia, Montenegro, and even sizable communities in Switzerland, Germany,NYC, Boston, Michigan. All of this while reaching a population of roughly 2.5 million by the mid eighties. The math simply doesn't add up especially when considering that all these communities outside Albania add up roughly 4-5 million.
- Could it be that it was politically beneficial for Serbia to under-report the number of Albanians in Kosova?
- at the time you're describing if your sheep grazed on the other side of the border, you and your extensive family were executed.
3) Tito's smart solution was an autonomy for Kosovo, even Milosevic agreed to it in Ranbulette. Tadic agreed even to "more than autonomy", yet it didn't help and Kosovo Albanians were encouraged by US to declare UDI with promise of support from Western side.
- You're right that was a smart solution. Smart if you're a Serb that is. If as you said earlier Kosova is not all Serb then why should Serbia have it all if you don't agree that we should have it all. Autonomy was the smart solution but not the just solution. If you think it indeed was a just solution then there is no reason whatsover you should disagree with an independent Kosova where Serbs are given autonomy. We will even throw "more than autonomy and less then independence" that only the enlightened minds of Serbs an Russians seem to understand. How about that?
Is independence the just solution. For me it is but I'm biased. However I have the clarity of the mind to see that to an outsider with no beef on this issue neither autonomy under any label nor independence may seem just. In the end maybe they are right but act like a smart a.. s here embellishing a situation which effectively rewards Serbia with all of Kosova when you don't want Albanians to have it all. That is not only overly hypocritical but an insult to the intelligence of any uninstitutionolized human being.
Serbs and Albanians live in terribly brainwashing myths. Whatever happens to Kosovo, Serbs and Albanians will have to live together - whether it is a country or a province.
(Rados, 22 January 2012 20:42)
===========================
Really?
How many Albanians live in Serbia? What do you think will happen there?
Another takeover by Albanians?
@T, You say "An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess,".
============================
You obviously belong to some ethnic group from the former Yugoslavia and therefore not unbiased but you won't be telling us which one.
Clinton wants to help Albanians and Serbs???
Clinton only wants to help Clinton.
Without Milosevic existing we Serbs would still feel exactly the same and you won't realise it until you LEARN about the history and our people in Kosovo.
You can't just keep saying we're war mongers... we just don't put up with crap and we look after our people, like a brotherhood.
Like SPC said about 60s and 70s you see the population of Serbs decrease dramatically whilst Albanian population rose dramatically until the 90s.
We will never step backwards on Kosovo until the West show some REAL understanding of the situation and not just an understanding of the past 10 years.
The US are not welcome in Serbia by 99.99% of the population (excluding Cedomir et al).
They bombed us without UN approval. They found a reason to build Camp Bondsteel. The only naive people here are the ones that can't see the bigger picture and understand the geo-political game US plays with everyone.
Don't think for a second that one Serb will turn back and just give in to the demands of people they don't even care about. People from the Balkans don't forget and that is fact.
The only problem is that when outsiders get involved and play games with the heads of politics in the Balkans and turn each other against one another then it is not a good recipe for "people who don't forget".
It looks like Serbia is setting itself up for another humiliation. Apparently, Serbia has learned nothing from its recent history. The unfounded economic reasons our resident "economist", sj, uses to argue that financial ruin is right around the corner for Serbia's Western enemies is just an infantile desire derived from countless prayers during his frequent bouts with insomnia. Once again, "sj" has greatly underestimated the power and resolve of the West, much to his chagrin.
Let me be frank but brief, everyone but a few delusional Serbs realize Serbia has no alternative but to join the EU. However, before this happens it must relinquish all claims on Kosovo. In any event, Serbia will not become a member EU for at least ten years. Serbia owes it to its suffering masses to do the right thing by facing West.
Tadic, Clinton confer on Kosovo...What in the world is there to confer. Kosova is a recognised independent state with its own constitution and laws. The Serbs have 2 options, accept Kosova as there new and prosperous homeland or head to Serbia where unemployment is at 22% and rising. Tadic is really making a fool out of himself by prentending that he can really make a difference, it's the same situation when Slobo promised change in TZV. Krajina, yeah they got change all right on the back of tractor on a way ticket to the backstreets of Beograd.
An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess, but didn't Tito concede Kosovo to the Albanian population back in the glory days of Yugoslavia. He gave them autonomy and even allowed them to fly their own flag. Things started to go wrong when Milosevic stirred up nationalistic feelings within the Serbs, of course to serve his own interests. Now Tadic is back to square one, trying to undo Milosevic's destructive policies and to reenforce Tito's smart solution. There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
(T, 22 January 2012 17:06)
The simplistic story that everything was hunky dory before Milosevic came along is a well worn lie perpetrated by the Western media. Actually, Kosovo was restless a long time before Slobo and these articles shows up that lazy sterotype.
Davidian, why stop the dialog? What do you want? No one from both sides will give in unless concessions on both sides are made...There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
(T, 22 January 2012 17:06)
I agree with you except that so far only the Serbian side has given in and made concessions. The Albanian side must also make concessions. I think in the end, the healthiest solution would be an independent Albanian part of Kosovo which Serbia must accept, as well as a Serbian part of it, integrated back into Serbia. Actually, this is inevitable and it will happen, no matter what anyone wants, and that includes you and I.
No one from both sides will give in unless concessions on both sides are made. This can only be achieved through dialog. This is not a conspiracy. The EU and America are simply doing their bit by helping to mediate.
An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess, but didn't Tito concede Kosovo to the Albanian population back in the glory days of Yugoslavia. He gave them autonomy and even allowed them to fly their own flag. Things started to go wrong when Milosevic stirred up nationalistic feelings within the Serbs, of course to serve his own interests. Now Tadic is back to square one, trying to undo Milosevic's destructive policies and to reenforce Tito's smart solution. There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
(T, 22 January 2012 17:06)
1) Kosovo wasn't/isn't only Albanian land and a lot of Serbs opposed giving it to Albanians in Tito time and for good reason
2) If you look at 60-70-80 statistics you will see dramatic changes in Kosovo ethnic composition - sharp increase of Albanian population (probably there couldn't be such increase without migrants from Albania) and decrease of Serbian population with perspective of ethnically pure Albanian Kosovo and there was natural reaction on it from Serbian side.
3) Tito's smart solution was an autonomy for Kosovo, even Milosevic agreed to it in Ranbulette. Tadic agreed even to "more than autonomy", yet it didn't help and Kosovo Albanians were encouraged by US to declare UDI with promise of support from Western side.
Your view is extremely naive. You talk about concessions, one thing that needs to be made clear to you is that the Americans never make concessions, they always pressure others to do so. Also if you honestly think that the EU and Americans are just doing their bit to mediate then you are hugely mistaken, both the EU and Americans never take a middle ground and when they do get involved they do so only for their own benefit. I think you need to see the bigger picture here.
T,ask yourself a Question do you want a Dialog with this People?Tito was a Dictator He somehow managed to keep the people quiet,but after his Death we have all seen what happens.And now to blame Milosevic is exakt what the west showed us in the Media,the,Serbs are the Bad ones and no one else.They lie to us in almost every article and the Serbs was shown us as the Aggressors simply untrue.I am against War but if the Serbs want to take their part of Land back in this Way,the have all the right to do this,because its their Land and everybody know that.
Serbs and Albanians live in terribly brainwashing myths. Whatever happens to Kosovo, Serbs and Albanians will have to live together - whether it is a country or a province.
Davidian, why stop the dialog? What do you want? No one from both sides will give in unless concessions on both sides are made. This can only be achieved through dialog. This is not a conspiracy. The EU and America are simply doing their bit by helping to mediate.
An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess, but didn't Tito concede Kosovo to the Albanian population back in the glory days of Yugoslavia. He gave them autonomy and even allowed them to fly their own flag. Things started to go wrong when Milosevic stirred up nationalistic feelings within the Serbs, of course to serve his own interests. Now Tadic is back to square one, trying to undo Milosevic's destructive policies and to reenforce Tito's smart solution. There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
Davidian, why stop the dialog? What do you want? No one from both sides will give in unless concessions on both sides are made. This can only be achieved through dialog. This is not a conspiracy. The EU and America are simply doing their bit by helping to mediate.
An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess, but didn't Tito concede Kosovo to the Albanian population back in the glory days of Yugoslavia. He gave them autonomy and even allowed them to fly their own flag. Things started to go wrong when Milosevic stirred up nationalistic feelings within the Serbs, of course to serve his own interests. Now Tadic is back to square one, trying to undo Milosevic's destructive policies and to reenforce Tito's smart solution. There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
Your view is extremely naive. You talk about concessions, one thing that needs to be made clear to you is that the Americans never make concessions, they always pressure others to do so. Also if you honestly think that the EU and Americans are just doing their bit to mediate then you are hugely mistaken, both the EU and Americans never take a middle ground and when they do get involved they do so only for their own benefit. I think you need to see the bigger picture here.
T,ask yourself a Question do you want a Dialog with this People?Tito was a Dictator He somehow managed to keep the people quiet,but after his Death we have all seen what happens.And now to blame Milosevic is exakt what the west showed us in the Media,the,Serbs are the Bad ones and no one else.They lie to us in almost every article and the Serbs was shown us as the Aggressors simply untrue.I am against War but if the Serbs want to take their part of Land back in this Way,the have all the right to do this,because its their Land and everybody know that.
An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess, but didn't Tito concede Kosovo to the Albanian population back in the glory days of Yugoslavia. He gave them autonomy and even allowed them to fly their own flag. Things started to go wrong when Milosevic stirred up nationalistic feelings within the Serbs, of course to serve his own interests. Now Tadic is back to square one, trying to undo Milosevic's destructive policies and to reenforce Tito's smart solution. There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
(T, 22 January 2012 17:06)
The simplistic story that everything was hunky dory before Milosevic came along is a well worn lie perpetrated by the Western media. Actually, Kosovo was restless a long time before Slobo and these articles shows up that lazy sterotype.
No one from both sides will give in unless concessions on both sides are made. This can only be achieved through dialog. This is not a conspiracy. The EU and America are simply doing their bit by helping to mediate.
An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess, but didn't Tito concede Kosovo to the Albanian population back in the glory days of Yugoslavia. He gave them autonomy and even allowed them to fly their own flag. Things started to go wrong when Milosevic stirred up nationalistic feelings within the Serbs, of course to serve his own interests. Now Tadic is back to square one, trying to undo Milosevic's destructive policies and to reenforce Tito's smart solution. There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
(T, 22 January 2012 17:06)
1) Kosovo wasn't/isn't only Albanian land and a lot of Serbs opposed giving it to Albanians in Tito time and for good reason
2) If you look at 60-70-80 statistics you will see dramatic changes in Kosovo ethnic composition - sharp increase of Albanian population (probably there couldn't be such increase without migrants from Albania) and decrease of Serbian population with perspective of ethnically pure Albanian Kosovo and there was natural reaction on it from Serbian side.
3) Tito's smart solution was an autonomy for Kosovo, even Milosevic agreed to it in Ranbulette. Tadic agreed even to "more than autonomy", yet it didn't help and Kosovo Albanians were encouraged by US to declare UDI with promise of support from Western side.
Davidian, why stop the dialog? What do you want? No one from both sides will give in unless concessions on both sides are made...There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
(T, 22 January 2012 17:06)
I agree with you except that so far only the Serbian side has given in and made concessions. The Albanian side must also make concessions. I think in the end, the healthiest solution would be an independent Albanian part of Kosovo which Serbia must accept, as well as a Serbian part of it, integrated back into Serbia. Actually, this is inevitable and it will happen, no matter what anyone wants, and that includes you and I.
Serbs and Albanians live in terribly brainwashing myths. Whatever happens to Kosovo, Serbs and Albanians will have to live together - whether it is a country or a province.
Tadic, Clinton confer on Kosovo...What in the world is there to confer. Kosova is a recognised independent state with its own constitution and laws. The Serbs have 2 options, accept Kosova as there new and prosperous homeland or head to Serbia where unemployment is at 22% and rising. Tadic is really making a fool out of himself by prentending that he can really make a difference, it's the same situation when Slobo promised change in TZV. Krajina, yeah they got change all right on the back of tractor on a way ticket to the backstreets of Beograd.
It looks like Serbia is setting itself up for another humiliation. Apparently, Serbia has learned nothing from its recent history. The unfounded economic reasons our resident "economist", sj, uses to argue that financial ruin is right around the corner for Serbia's Western enemies is just an infantile desire derived from countless prayers during his frequent bouts with insomnia. Once again, "sj" has greatly underestimated the power and resolve of the West, much to his chagrin.
Let me be frank but brief, everyone but a few delusional Serbs realize Serbia has no alternative but to join the EU. However, before this happens it must relinquish all claims on Kosovo. In any event, Serbia will not become a member EU for at least ten years. Serbia owes it to its suffering masses to do the right thing by facing West.
@T, You say "An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess,".
============================
You obviously belong to some ethnic group from the former Yugoslavia and therefore not unbiased but you won't be telling us which one.
Clinton wants to help Albanians and Serbs???
Clinton only wants to help Clinton.
Without Milosevic existing we Serbs would still feel exactly the same and you won't realise it until you LEARN about the history and our people in Kosovo.
You can't just keep saying we're war mongers... we just don't put up with crap and we look after our people, like a brotherhood.
Like SPC said about 60s and 70s you see the population of Serbs decrease dramatically whilst Albanian population rose dramatically until the 90s.
We will never step backwards on Kosovo until the West show some REAL understanding of the situation and not just an understanding of the past 10 years.
The US are not welcome in Serbia by 99.99% of the population (excluding Cedomir et al).
They bombed us without UN approval. They found a reason to build Camp Bondsteel. The only naive people here are the ones that can't see the bigger picture and understand the geo-political game US plays with everyone.
Don't think for a second that one Serb will turn back and just give in to the demands of people they don't even care about. People from the Balkans don't forget and that is fact.
The only problem is that when outsiders get involved and play games with the heads of politics in the Balkans and turn each other against one another then it is not a good recipe for "people who don't forget".
Serbs and Albanians live in terribly brainwashing myths. Whatever happens to Kosovo, Serbs and Albanians will have to live together - whether it is a country or a province.
(Rados, 22 January 2012 20:42)
===========================
Really?
How many Albanians live in Serbia? What do you think will happen there?
Another takeover by Albanians?
aaay a few things here:
1) Kosovo wasn't/isn't only Albanian land and a lot of Serbs opposed giving it to Albanians in Tito time and for good reason
- True but Kosovo isn't only Serbian land either. If Albanians according to you can't have it all why should the Serbs? You know it and every single Serb knows it. There is no logical reason. The only excuse Sebs use is that they simply are entitled because they feel they're better people. This view the Serbs have for themselves is recognized by almost all other Balkan Nations. Too be frank it's the same attitude that Russians have; and while Russians may be excused due to their past glory days as a superpower, the Serbs and for that matter just about every other Balkan Nation have done nothing in the past 2 thousand years that would justify their holier than thou attitudes.
2) If you look at 60-70-80 statistics you will see dramatic changes in Kosovo ethnic composition - sharp increase of Albanian population (probably there couldn't be such increase without migrants from Albania) and decrease of Serbian population with perspective of ethnically pure Albanian Kosovo and there was natural reaction on it from Serbian side.
- You've become pray of Serbian propaganda and here's why
- Kosova was the poorest region in Jugoslavia. What would motivate a Slav Speaking people such as Kosova Serb to suffer poverty in Kosova rather than migrate to another richer slav speaking region of jugoslavia.
- in the period you are speaking of Albania had less than 2 million people. Yet you maintain that we populated Kosova, Macedonia, Montenegro, and even sizable communities in Switzerland, Germany,NYC, Boston, Michigan. All of this while reaching a population of roughly 2.5 million by the mid eighties. The math simply doesn't add up especially when considering that all these communities outside Albania add up roughly 4-5 million.
- Could it be that it was politically beneficial for Serbia to under-report the number of Albanians in Kosova?
- at the time you're describing if your sheep grazed on the other side of the border, you and your extensive family were executed.
3) Tito's smart solution was an autonomy for Kosovo, even Milosevic agreed to it in Ranbulette. Tadic agreed even to "more than autonomy", yet it didn't help and Kosovo Albanians were encouraged by US to declare UDI with promise of support from Western side.
- You're right that was a smart solution. Smart if you're a Serb that is. If as you said earlier Kosova is not all Serb then why should Serbia have it all if you don't agree that we should have it all. Autonomy was the smart solution but not the just solution. If you think it indeed was a just solution then there is no reason whatsover you should disagree with an independent Kosova where Serbs are given autonomy. We will even throw "more than autonomy and less then independence" that only the enlightened minds of Serbs an Russians seem to understand. How about that?
Is independence the just solution. For me it is but I'm biased. However I have the clarity of the mind to see that to an outsider with no beef on this issue neither autonomy under any label nor independence may seem just. In the end maybe they are right but act like a smart a.. s here embellishing a situation which effectively rewards Serbia with all of Kosova when you don't want Albanians to have it all. That is not only overly hypocritical but an insult to the intelligence of any uninstitutionolized human being.
Davidian, why stop the dialog? What do you want? No one from both sides will give in unless concessions on both sides are made. This can only be achieved through dialog. This is not a conspiracy. The EU and America are simply doing their bit by helping to mediate.
An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess, but didn't Tito concede Kosovo to the Albanian population back in the glory days of Yugoslavia. He gave them autonomy and even allowed them to fly their own flag. Things started to go wrong when Milosevic stirred up nationalistic feelings within the Serbs, of course to serve his own interests. Now Tadic is back to square one, trying to undo Milosevic's destructive policies and to reenforce Tito's smart solution. There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess, but didn't Tito concede Kosovo to the Albanian population back in the glory days of Yugoslavia. He gave them autonomy and even allowed them to fly their own flag. Things started to go wrong when Milosevic stirred up nationalistic feelings within the Serbs, of course to serve his own interests. Now Tadic is back to square one, trying to undo Milosevic's destructive policies and to reenforce Tito's smart solution. There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
(T, 22 January 2012 17:06)
The simplistic story that everything was hunky dory before Milosevic came along is a well worn lie perpetrated by the Western media. Actually, Kosovo was restless a long time before Slobo and these articles shows up that lazy sterotype.
Your view is extremely naive. You talk about concessions, one thing that needs to be made clear to you is that the Americans never make concessions, they always pressure others to do so. Also if you honestly think that the EU and Americans are just doing their bit to mediate then you are hugely mistaken, both the EU and Americans never take a middle ground and when they do get involved they do so only for their own benefit. I think you need to see the bigger picture here.
No one from both sides will give in unless concessions on both sides are made. This can only be achieved through dialog. This is not a conspiracy. The EU and America are simply doing their bit by helping to mediate.
An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess, but didn't Tito concede Kosovo to the Albanian population back in the glory days of Yugoslavia. He gave them autonomy and even allowed them to fly their own flag. Things started to go wrong when Milosevic stirred up nationalistic feelings within the Serbs, of course to serve his own interests. Now Tadic is back to square one, trying to undo Milosevic's destructive policies and to reenforce Tito's smart solution. There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
(T, 22 January 2012 17:06)
1) Kosovo wasn't/isn't only Albanian land and a lot of Serbs opposed giving it to Albanians in Tito time and for good reason
2) If you look at 60-70-80 statistics you will see dramatic changes in Kosovo ethnic composition - sharp increase of Albanian population (probably there couldn't be such increase without migrants from Albania) and decrease of Serbian population with perspective of ethnically pure Albanian Kosovo and there was natural reaction on it from Serbian side.
3) Tito's smart solution was an autonomy for Kosovo, even Milosevic agreed to it in Ranbulette. Tadic agreed even to "more than autonomy", yet it didn't help and Kosovo Albanians were encouraged by US to declare UDI with promise of support from Western side.
Davidian, why stop the dialog? What do you want? No one from both sides will give in unless concessions on both sides are made...There is of course an alternative and that is war. Do you really want to go through that again?
(T, 22 January 2012 17:06)
I agree with you except that so far only the Serbian side has given in and made concessions. The Albanian side must also make concessions. I think in the end, the healthiest solution would be an independent Albanian part of Kosovo which Serbia must accept, as well as a Serbian part of it, integrated back into Serbia. Actually, this is inevitable and it will happen, no matter what anyone wants, and that includes you and I.
T,ask yourself a Question do you want a Dialog with this People?Tito was a Dictator He somehow managed to keep the people quiet,but after his Death we have all seen what happens.And now to blame Milosevic is exakt what the west showed us in the Media,the,Serbs are the Bad ones and no one else.They lie to us in almost every article and the Serbs was shown us as the Aggressors simply untrue.I am against War but if the Serbs want to take their part of Land back in this Way,the have all the right to do this,because its their Land and everybody know that.
Tadic, Clinton confer on Kosovo...What in the world is there to confer. Kosova is a recognised independent state with its own constitution and laws. The Serbs have 2 options, accept Kosova as there new and prosperous homeland or head to Serbia where unemployment is at 22% and rising. Tadic is really making a fool out of himself by prentending that he can really make a difference, it's the same situation when Slobo promised change in TZV. Krajina, yeah they got change all right on the back of tractor on a way ticket to the backstreets of Beograd.
Serbs and Albanians live in terribly brainwashing myths. Whatever happens to Kosovo, Serbs and Albanians will have to live together - whether it is a country or a province.
(Rados, 22 January 2012 20:42)
===========================
Really?
How many Albanians live in Serbia? What do you think will happen there?
Another takeover by Albanians?
Without Milosevic existing we Serbs would still feel exactly the same and you won't realise it until you LEARN about the history and our people in Kosovo.
You can't just keep saying we're war mongers... we just don't put up with crap and we look after our people, like a brotherhood.
Like SPC said about 60s and 70s you see the population of Serbs decrease dramatically whilst Albanian population rose dramatically until the 90s.
We will never step backwards on Kosovo until the West show some REAL understanding of the situation and not just an understanding of the past 10 years.
The US are not welcome in Serbia by 99.99% of the population (excluding Cedomir et al).
They bombed us without UN approval. They found a reason to build Camp Bondsteel. The only naive people here are the ones that can't see the bigger picture and understand the geo-political game US plays with everyone.
Don't think for a second that one Serb will turn back and just give in to the demands of people they don't even care about. People from the Balkans don't forget and that is fact.
The only problem is that when outsiders get involved and play games with the heads of politics in the Balkans and turn each other against one another then it is not a good recipe for "people who don't forget".
Serbs and Albanians live in terribly brainwashing myths. Whatever happens to Kosovo, Serbs and Albanians will have to live together - whether it is a country or a province.
It looks like Serbia is setting itself up for another humiliation. Apparently, Serbia has learned nothing from its recent history. The unfounded economic reasons our resident "economist", sj, uses to argue that financial ruin is right around the corner for Serbia's Western enemies is just an infantile desire derived from countless prayers during his frequent bouts with insomnia. Once again, "sj" has greatly underestimated the power and resolve of the West, much to his chagrin.
Let me be frank but brief, everyone but a few delusional Serbs realize Serbia has no alternative but to join the EU. However, before this happens it must relinquish all claims on Kosovo. In any event, Serbia will not become a member EU for at least ten years. Serbia owes it to its suffering masses to do the right thing by facing West.
@T, You say "An other thing; I am not Albanian, nor Serbian (nor American) and can therefore take an unbiased view towards this ugly mess,".
============================
You obviously belong to some ethnic group from the former Yugoslavia and therefore not unbiased but you won't be telling us which one.
Clinton wants to help Albanians and Serbs???
Clinton only wants to help Clinton.
aaay a few things here:
1) Kosovo wasn't/isn't only Albanian land and a lot of Serbs opposed giving it to Albanians in Tito time and for good reason
- True but Kosovo isn't only Serbian land either. If Albanians according to you can't have it all why should the Serbs? You know it and every single Serb knows it. There is no logical reason. The only excuse Sebs use is that they simply are entitled because they feel they're better people. This view the Serbs have for themselves is recognized by almost all other Balkan Nations. Too be frank it's the same attitude that Russians have; and while Russians may be excused due to their past glory days as a superpower, the Serbs and for that matter just about every other Balkan Nation have done nothing in the past 2 thousand years that would justify their holier than thou attitudes.
2) If you look at 60-70-80 statistics you will see dramatic changes in Kosovo ethnic composition - sharp increase of Albanian population (probably there couldn't be such increase without migrants from Albania) and decrease of Serbian population with perspective of ethnically pure Albanian Kosovo and there was natural reaction on it from Serbian side.
- You've become pray of Serbian propaganda and here's why
- Kosova was the poorest region in Jugoslavia. What would motivate a Slav Speaking people such as Kosova Serb to suffer poverty in Kosova rather than migrate to another richer slav speaking region of jugoslavia.
- in the period you are speaking of Albania had less than 2 million people. Yet you maintain that we populated Kosova, Macedonia, Montenegro, and even sizable communities in Switzerland, Germany,NYC, Boston, Michigan. All of this while reaching a population of roughly 2.5 million by the mid eighties. The math simply doesn't add up especially when considering that all these communities outside Albania add up roughly 4-5 million.
- Could it be that it was politically beneficial for Serbia to under-report the number of Albanians in Kosova?
- at the time you're describing if your sheep grazed on the other side of the border, you and your extensive family were executed.
3) Tito's smart solution was an autonomy for Kosovo, even Milosevic agreed to it in Ranbulette. Tadic agreed even to "more than autonomy", yet it didn't help and Kosovo Albanians were encouraged by US to declare UDI with promise of support from Western side.
- You're right that was a smart solution. Smart if you're a Serb that is. If as you said earlier Kosova is not all Serb then why should Serbia have it all if you don't agree that we should have it all. Autonomy was the smart solution but not the just solution. If you think it indeed was a just solution then there is no reason whatsover you should disagree with an independent Kosova where Serbs are given autonomy. We will even throw "more than autonomy and less then independence" that only the enlightened minds of Serbs an Russians seem to understand. How about that?
Is independence the just solution. For me it is but I'm biased. However I have the clarity of the mind to see that to an outsider with no beef on this issue neither autonomy under any label nor independence may seem just. In the end maybe they are right but act like a smart a.. s here embellishing a situation which effectively rewards Serbia with all of Kosova when you don't want Albanians to have it all. That is not only overly hypocritical but an insult to the intelligence of any uninstitutionolized human being.
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