Serbs, Croats “have most similar DNA”

Again poor Serbs want to be Croatians it is good but DNA speaks for its self our descendents live and are Scandinavians moved their after the last ice age http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=haplogroup+i&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=VN3&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&biw=1280&bih=530&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=JKEALV3jUVspNM:&imgrefurl=http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I1d/default.aspx%3Fsection%3Dresults&docid=jJnPgVbji6mfUM&imgurl=http://webperso.mediom.qc.ca/~steeve21/I1d/I_Distribution.jpg&w=904&h=558&ei=ZFccT_CxMeOwiQL317CxCA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=516&sig=100319921593858655768&page=1&tbnh=121&tbnw=196&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0&tx=76&ty=89 . Croatians brought you civilization and the Greeks poor Serb interlopers barbarians still have those deranged criminal thieving tendencies. Just look at their barbarian criminality of the 1990s on unarmed children ,women ,men civilians never seem to learn anything.

K Damir, had they included Turkish DNA in the test they would have shown that Albs are recent immigrants who arrived with the Turkish army. The Illyrians are a long dead race, who are spinning in their graves at the thought that Albos claim to be their descendants.

Oh no! What's Lenard and Jadranka Kosor gonna do now?????

Both Serbs and Croats have known this for long enough. Bam bam may be tearing his hair out at this truth, but thats the way it is, you people are just catholosised Serbs, when it comes down to it you are just like us ;)

Of course Albanians don't have similarities with slavic people,they are the descendants of the ancient Illyrians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

Most interesting of the whole article is: The national name Albania is derived from Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by Ptolemy about 150 A.D.
From what we know from the old Balkan populations territories (Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians), Albanian language is spoken in the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.
Many of what remain as attested words to Illyrian have an Albanian explanation and also a number of Illyrian lexical items (toponyms, hydronyms, oronyms, anthroponyms, etc.) have been linked to Albanian.

Also if you don't know the origin of the name Aleksander here is the explanation from old Gheg dialect. "A-le-ksi-ander" any Albanian kid in the elementary school can tell you that it means "Born as a dream". Cities such as Ulqin(Ulcinj) Shkup(Skopje) Nish and many more have Albanian meaning. You all know that these 3 cities in particular are among the ancient ones.

This is not the first genetic study undertaken on the Balkan people and Europeans in general. These studies are not conducted for political or racist purposes, as seem to be the general understanding of the participants here, rather it is to help a variety of other fields of science like medicine (hereditary diseases). Of course there are other ramifications stemming from them that help historians put some perspective to the wealth of information deriving from archeology and linguistics.

The findings of this study are not surprising and need not be an issue of renewed divide between people (humans). Instead the study underlines the commonalities of the southern Slavs and their blood relations. It doesn't say that Serbs are Croats or vice versa. Nor does it say anything about religion because that is a personal belief that has nothing to do with nationality. Instead of reflecting on the ignorance that caused the Ustasha to kill Serbs and other minorities during WW2, or Serbs killing of Croats and Bosnians, most people here still love to continue the cycle of hatred and violence between brothers who share one blood, language, territory and history. This is backward and ignorant.

Since brothers can't seem to agree, what chance is there to find common grounds with the other non-Slavs in the Balkans, namely the Albanians? If you don't understand and recognize a brother, how can you recognize your neighbor, who will be your neighbor for many, many centuries to come? Has anyone read a genetic study by non Balkan scientists (and there are plenty published on he internet)? Is it more convenient for some of you to slender than to search for knowledge and understanding? What if you learn that genetics, linguistics and archeology state that southern Slavs are also related to the Albanians, who by the way, are the central carriers of the E-V13 and J2b haplogroups? These have been unanimously identified by geneticists as the originators of Indo - Europeans that moved to Europe from Africa at the end of the Ice Age, to colonize the continent and bring with them agriculture. All people of Europe are their descendants except the Irish, Basques, Finns, Hungarians and least of all the Turks.

Deep reflection and reconciliation is the only way out, if the people of the Balkans do not want to burry anymore of their children! Ignorance is not bliss! It kills.

(Those of you are confused, please don't bother to make a racist comment on me cause I am not from the Balkans!)

while Kosovo Albanians have the fewest similarities with the others,” says Forensics Medicine Institute’s Dr Zlatko Jakovski.

We similarities with our own kind only. Wish they had included Albania in this research, so it will show that K-Albos are the same people with A-Albos and we are unique in Europe, even with language(only one tree , and that is old Indo-Europen language that no one else speaks it in Europe).

Again poor Serbs want to be Croatians it is good but DNA speaks for its self our descendents live and are Scandinavians moved their after the last ice age [link] . Croatians brought you civilization and the Greeks poor Serb interlopers barbarians still have those deranged criminal thieving tendencies. Just look at their barbarian criminality of the 1990s on unarmed children ,women ,men civilians never seem to learn anything.
(Lenard, 22 January 2012 20:11)

LOL So let me see if I understand you. According to your "logic" (and I use quotes because no sane individual can take you for more than a village idiot), Croats are somehow Scandinavians who one day went out for a walk and suddenly got lost in the Balkans and never decided to go home. Within that time period they apparently became Slavs considering the language they speak and the customs they have.

Even if that were true, it's a bit rich for you to say that Croats brought civilization when the so-called Scandinavian Croats now speak a Slavic language completely identical to Serbs. I must say Lenard, your Scandinavian Croats have had a horrible track record avoiding assimilation and acculturation by those lesser races around them. Obviously whatever "civilization" Croats brought was certainly not comprehenbible grammar as your linguistic butchery shows once again.

You're a shining example of the dangers of mixing alcohol and drugs :)

Most interesting of the whole article is: The national name Albania is derived from Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by Ptolemy about 150 A.D.
(Nelli_Canada, 22 January 2012 19:49)

Perhaps. If you believe that. Nice that you referenced one opinionated theory in Wikipedia. Too bad you didn't scroll down a little further to note the counterargument:

"Although the Illyrian tribe of the Albanoi and the place Albanopolis could be located near Krujë, nothing proves a relation of this tribe to the Albanians, whose name appears for the first time in the eleventh century in Byzantine sources"

So unfortunately you can't make the argument that Albanians today are direct descendents of a long-dead race of people.

As for your argument of the original name for "Aleksander", again, too bad you couldn't reference that in Wikipedia, which, oh look, gives you this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander

Maybe your theory works in Albania, but the rest of the world thinks differently :)

Are you telling me Bulgarians from FYROM and Bulgarians from Bulgaria are very similar, I would have never thought of that......LOL

'...you people are just catholosised Serbs, when it comes down to it you are just like us...'
(SCP UK)

True, and Serbs are also Orthodoxified Croats.

It works both ways.

Tell us something we don't know :)

They have the fewest similarities so they try to take our body parts??

On Greece not taking part in this 'study', do you think Greece is stupid enough to take part in something that is being controlled by FYROM, it would simply be another chance for FYROM to show off its propogandist tendencies and fuel its irredentist fantasies

What a surprising result. Nobody would have guessed that, right? Even though Montenegrin population wasn't included, I guess they have most similar DNA with Serbs and Croatians, too.

To Nelli Canada.

Yes. Albanians seem to be descendant of Illyrians after all. This is what study done by Swiss based genetic research IGENEA suggests. This was disputed in the past, as many believed that Albanians are descendant of Thracians.
While dominant Albanian gene is Illyrian ( 30%), they are still less Illyrs then Bosnian Muslims ( 40% Illyrian ) and Croats ( 34% Illyrian ). No surprise there as one of the biggest ancient Illyrian settlements was near today's Zagreb, for example.

Here is part of the study relevant to Balkans, on Bosnian site.

http://www.bosniafacts.info/web/genetic_makeup_of_the_balkans.php

It's interesting that dominant gene in Macedonians is "Antic Macedonian" ( 30% ).
Slovenia is Teutonic - surprise, surprise.
This is Bosnian site so it took only data about the people from former Yu. Many here mentioned Greece...
Here is more data taken from the same source (IGENEA)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHcK790GcaY

Greeks truly are Greeks ( 35% ) while Bulgarians are 49% Thracians.
In Serbia and in Montenegro Slavic gene is most dominant one.

No surprise, Today's Macedonians are Bulgarians.. As for the Serb and Croat, take away religion Serb and Croats are the same..

Surely Vardar Macedonia will be one with Bulgaria again..

"K Damir, had they included Turkish DNA in the test they would have shown that Albs are recent immigrants who arrived with the Turkish army. The Illyrians are a long dead race, who are spinning in their graves at the thought that Albos claim to be their descendants.
(Michael Thomas, 22 January 2012 15:46) "

Actually, DNA tests on Albanians were done long ago, and showed they are an ancient Indo-European people who have been living in the Balkans for millenia.

Illyrian blood was all over the Balkans and both Croats and Serbs were calling themselves Illyrian long before the Germans and Austrians started putting the notion that Albanians were Illyrians in their heads. The Austrians didn't like either the Illyrian movement among Croats nor the Pan-Slavic one. They saw it as a threat if the Croats, Serbs and others worked together, so that's why they suppressed that and came up with the Albanians are Illyrians push.

"Again poor Serbs want to be Croatians it is good but DNA speaks for its self"
(Lenard, 22 January 2012 20:11)

Reading skills seems to be a problem for some people. It's not about Serbs wanna be Croatians. These results of these DNS analysis of the people living in the balkans show that Serbs and Croats are most similar - which means they are of the same origin. Knowing that their languages is the same, the region they live in is adjacent, it cannot be surprising for anyone.

Where is Leonidas today?
The reason Greece declined to participate is due to the large number of non-Greeks that live in Greece. Oh, I forgot... Greece claims that all Greeks are pure Greek.

This is science. Science doesn't care about religion or politics. It's odd how two people whom are essentially the same people can diverge so much. Croats and Serbs look alike yet they treat each other like different races.

The Serbo-Bulgarian conflict, inapired by Austrian intrigue was the greatest disaster that befell the Balkans for the last 137 years. It is so obvious that the Macedonians and the Bulgarians were one nation, and so were the Serbs and the Montenegrins. Foreign inspired anti-Bulgarian propaganda in Macedonia and anti-Serbian propaganda in Montenegro caused among all other harm, a deep suspicion between Belgrade and Sofia. A true Serbo-Bulgarian reconciliation, on the basis of the historical truth and mutual apology (both sides have a lot to appologiuze)will change dramatically the fabric of the whole region.

Duh, you think maybe because they are all slavs and Kosovars descend from the Illyrians? Nothing ground breaking about this study. If serbs and Croats are more related, then it's terrible how serb chetniks kill their own relatives in Croatia and Bosnia, at 3 different points within last 100 years. Mostly not on the front lines, but by attacking sleeping villages, looting, raping, and killing in the middle of the night while their men were on the front lines defending their country.

In a previous study it was shown that the Roma have the most similar DNA with the Serbs as opposed to other groups in the region.

Croats & Serbs with similar DNA. I don't think so... To compare the 2 as equals is utter nonsense and stupity.

@TP, no it doesn't, the Serbs existed as a people and as a nation long before the Croats did.

@Lenard, Croats like you make me laugh when you begin to fool yourselves into thinking that you are of some ancient race of people, that isn't the case, most of your routes lie with us Serbs, like it or not.

The study is not surprising considering that "Croats" are Serbs who don't know any better.

Duh, you think maybe because they are all slavs and Kosovars descend from the Illyrians? Nothing ground breaking about this study. If serbs and Croats are more related, then it's terrible how serb chetniks kill their own relatives in Croatia and Bosnia, at 3 different points within last 100 years. Mostly not on the front lines, but by attacking sleeping villages, looting, raping, and killing in the middle of the night while their men were on the front lines defending their country.
(King Damir, 22 January 2012 14:23)

Is that the bed time story your mamma and your daddy raised you on?
Next time you get that hate spewing feeling,take your hateful poisoned ooze somewhere and bury it deep. Consider whether or not It's time for you and those that think like you to wake up from your dark dreams and fears--or y'all will continue to live in the hell of your mind that y'all created. Wake up, and let the dead bury their dead!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbYSbaInp04&feature=related

To some degree, this lines up with the data about Slavic haplogroups posted on Wikipedia. There, you will find that South Slavs are largely divided into two main categories: R1a1a, which is common amongst all Slavic ethnic groups located in central and eastern Europe, plus Slovenes and northwestern Croats; and I2a1b1 (or I2a2), a unique "Dinaric" group centered on the area around Hercegovina that includes Bosnians (all types), Montenegrins, Serbs, Dalmatian Croats, Macedonians, Bulgarians and some Ukranians through a link stretching through Romania and Moldova.

At any rate, the genetic landscape across the Balkans seems a bit complex, but that's not much of a surprise. It would be interesting to see a matrix comparing people from various regions in the former Yugoslavia -- Serbs with Montenegrins (the latter group is conspicuously absent from the Macedonian study), Croats from Zagreb with Croats from Mostar, Slovenes with Macedonians, and so on.

"The Macedonian scientists received samples and data from most of the Balkan countries, except from Greece, who refused to take part in the project."

I wonder if it has to do with them not recognizing their name or if they don't want people to know that they are most similar to Turks

Duh, they're the same people! What next? "Bosniaks" and "Montenegrins" are the same too? The horror! :)

(Truth Speaker, 23 January 2012 03:10)

Considering that Albanians contributed NOTHING in ancient art, science or religion, it is hard to believe that they were the first inhabitants of the entire European continent.
For people who claim to be more ancient than the Greeks, and claiming uniqueness of their language, I must say, for a civilization that old, it is difficult to comprehend that not a single word of Albanian language is used elsewhere.
Greek, Latin, Arabic, Hebrew, Persian, Chinese, Slavic, Sanskrit..etc - at least few words of all of these languages are found in almost every language in the world.
Yet...which of the words that we use have been contributed by the ancient Albanian civilization and ancient Albanian language?

This is not a provocation, I would genuinely like to know.

"The Macedonian scientists received samples and data from most of the Balkan countries, except from Greece, who refused to take part in the project. "

Because only the Arvanitas are different from the Slavic Ic Ski and Os prefixes. Otherwise we have 340 million near identical Slavs, some thinking that their roots start in Kosovo and end by North Korea lol.


Truth is coming out slowly but surely.

That's why they hate each other so much. Some family members can't get along at all. I see more problems in the future.

Serbs, Croats “have most similar DNA”

That's more proof there that these folks been at each others
throats for quiet some time.

i would believe this research if it was from outside balkan. since it is done in macedonia, i have no reason to believe that the results are anything but corrupt. croats descent from illyrians as bosnians do together with albanians. serbs may be partially illyrian but that doesnt change anything on their deep rooted slavic culture. unfortunately, the conflict will remain for centuries. from a dardanian citizen, prishtina.

Those on this forum who are determined to prove that their origins are somehow apart and exclusive only prove one thing, that fascism is still alive and kicking in the Balkans.
The rascist theories peddled by the likes of Nelli, Lenard and co. are frankly sickening. Hitler would be proud. Ordinary people couldn't care less about the Illyrians, Aryans, Thracians or any other pseudo tribe that may or may not have existed. Ordinary people want peace, jobs, and a life free of violence, ethnic hatred, and crime. Concentrate on that and the world would be a better place.

Macedonian Feta cheese is creamier than either Greek or Bulgarian Feta cheese definitely making it tastier. This makes the dryer Greek Feta more crumbly and better suited for salads.

Research done in Macedonia, most likely by serb/slavs 'researchers',,,research done elsewhere without political influence shows Albanians are the first settlers in the Balkans, possibly in the whole continent, have people wondered why are slavs speak same language as Russians or similar?? Yet Albanians speak a language that is different to others, the silly theory that Albanians came with the ottomans, can't believe people still go along with that silly theory, ask yourself why would we travel with the Ottomans to Balkans only to war with them once arrived, you think it was some bizare conspiracy that once arrived in the Balkans we fight the Ottomans to make the world believe that we are not related? Albanians have never been related to Turks in Genetics or language, it is just a desperate theory developed by Serbs trying to claim they have been in the Balkans before Albanians. Research shows first settlement to have been in Kosova and dna research shows it was Albanians..........As for Greece not taking part in the research, not surprise considering most modern greeks have no relations to Ancient Greeks.

Everyone knew that anyway,when are montenegrins goin to realize they have similiar dna with northern albanians,they sure look alike

For those of you supporting the Albanian/Illyrian relationship. Just what Illyrian DNA was used to compare "current Albanian DNA" to "extinct Illyrian DNA" ???????????

How come the Greeks were so proud of their feta cheese DNA and lineage which they were all too eager to show off and bore the world with.
Their non participation in this "highly credible" scientific study leads me to wondering that they might could have some unwanted skeletons in their DNA that they rather not parade around like they do their feta cheese. What say you?

Beyond all this silly (and frankly: embarrassing) shouting and bragging about the "genetic purity" and superiority/inferiority of one Balkan race over another lies a very simple and unequivocal SCIENTIFIC argument: except for Albanians, ALL other nations of the former Yugoslavia share the same common lineage, genetic foundation and biological, cultural AND historical traits.

ALL of them. From Slovenia to Macedonia, and all in between.

Whether this study is sufficient for our (now merrily divorced) tribes to be called "brothers", I doubt very much, but it certainly proves beyond any doubt that they are all very, very close relatives. And if there is anything that conclusively proves their inextricably close kinship, it is their ability to mutually hate each other with passionate and wildly irrational abandon.

If the genetic variations found in this study prove anything, it is NOT that different Yugo-Slavic "tribes" came from different European bloodlines and genomes or from the different parts of the continent; the study merely shows how much time each segment of our common, ancestral people had spent under different foreign yokes and foreign occupations and how intensely it had mixed its primordial Slavic blood with that of its foreign masters over the centuries. The "Teutonic" gene found in Slovenians does not prove much except that the Langobard/Frankic/German upper class which dominated much of the Slovenian history liked what it saw in indigenous population and preferred to sow its wild oats (genetic material) in Slovenia rather than go back to Germany and procreate there (and frankly, who could blame them -- even Donald Trump and Roger Federer prefer to have Slovenian wives)

Likewise, the presence of Turkish / Near Eastern genes in Bosnian population is rather self-explanatory, just as is the presence of Bulgarian genetic material - which, after all, is not significantly different from Serbian - in Macedonian blood.

To those who had lived in Yugoslavia when it was a happy and multiethnic community, the results of this study should come as no surprise. However, to those still claiming that their particular tribe came from the mythical "Aryan" mists of ancient Persia or from the frozen Walhallas of the land of the Norse, this will most likely come as a huge shock. I hope they get as rude an awakening as possible.

Why Montenegrians are not incuded in the study. Montenegrian nation does not exist. There are Croats, Albanians and Bosnians. They should study for DNA from all parts of Albania. North Albanian Catholics shows that Albanians are 100% Illirians. Even today, they have Illyrian custums. That the reason they are attacket by Slavs and and not supported by Albanian muslims.

Huma DNA and DNA from apes and other primates are for 97% identical.
Can you imagine the little differences in DNA between people? That is what this study proves. Better to focus on differences in cognitive capacities which for a large part is determined by culture.

Was Crngora part of this test, or they were excluded in purpose ,so as not to embarrass Serbs, since they have no similarities?

How is it surprising that Serbs west of Drina, that have adopted different religions, have similar DNA to Serbs east of Drina?

Thanks, Sreten, for the links.

I wonder what the DNA similarity between Albanians and people in Sicily is like. Just like the 'Illyrian' theory, there's another theory that claims Albanians came from Sicily, originally. Evil tongues could say that this would explain why there's so much mafia in Kosovo :)

Everyone knew that anyway,when are montenegrins goin to realize they have similiar dna with northern albanians,they sure look alike
(bill, 23 January 2012 03:20)

No, maybe you were mislead by Djukanovic and Thaci looking like brothers :)

'@TP, no it doesn't, the Serbs existed as a people and as a nation long before the Croats did.'
(SCP UK)

As a nation, yes, but as a people - a tribe - then no.

I believe that the Serbs and Croats, much like my English ancestors, the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, came south to the Balkans as separate tribes or clans of the same nation.

As usual, it was outside medieval powers such as the Franks and Byzantines who interfered and created the divisions that still plague Yugoslavs today.

Hey Lenard, why aren't you going along with the Poglavnik's lies written to his master Hitler that the Croats are not actually Slavs, but are instead descendants of the Germanic Goths? It sure pays to kiss der Fuehrer's arse, no?

Doing this test among Serbs,Croats,Bosnians,Bulgarians is so stupid .

A SLAV IS A SLAV IS A SLAV simple as that

And Greece being involved in such a study/test would be CATASTROPHIC !
because it would show much Slavic and Albanian DNA


PelasgianIllyrianAlbanian

"So unfortunately you can't make the argument that Albanians today are direct descendents of a long-dead race of people."

Since you happen to know so much about the Illyrians why don't you share with us how and when that ancient race of people ceased to exist?

P.S. It's common knowledge that Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information.

The differences are based on selfish arrogance, bigotry and ignorance - not on actual ethnicity.

That is the reasonable conclusion.

The voting for neighbouring countries in the Eurovision Song Contest is strong evidence that most people are aware of this and are not overly persuaded by nationalist rhetoric.

Huma DNA and DNA from apes and other primates are for 97% identical.
Can you imagine the little differences in DNA between people? That is what this study proves. Better to focus on differences in cognitive capacities which for a large part is determined by culture.
(Joe A, 23 January 2012 10:38)

Exactly what I was thinking. What is the method and criteria? They chose some genes (which ones?), took some samples from people (which people?villagers that have not moved from Serbia/Croatia for hundreds of years or Croatian tourists in Serbia?) in different countries, put the samples in the machines (which are slow I hear, even though there are much faster machines that can sequence the DNA of a human in a matter of days, but then how do you justify 6 years of salary?), and got some numbers. Now these numbers I suspect say things like, 25% of DNA samples collected from Serbs have gene A, 19% has gene B, 5% has gene C, etc etc. Then, 24% of samples collected from Croats has gene A, 22% has gene B, 15% has gene C, etc etc. Then they came up with some formula to compute similarity from those numbers (how? there are many ways you can compute a similarity value). That formula produced some numbers: (Serbs, Croats)= 21%; (Serbs, Albanians)= 20.5%; (Serbs, Macedonians)= 20.6%. Therefore Serbs and Croats are more similar. Not sure about these genetics studies. At every step of the way there is a ton of information lost. It is obvious, when you want to reduce relationship between two sequences of 100 thousand genes to only one number. A very lossy transformation. One needs to really be an expert to understand its significance and interpret results correctly. Giving them to general public (without details on the method of course) will of course produce crap about races and illyrians etc etc.

Again poor Serbs want to be Croatians it is good but DNA speaks for its self our descendents live and are Scandinavians moved their after the last ice age http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=haplogroup+i&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=VN3&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&biw=1280&bih=530&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=JKEALV3jUVspNM:&imgrefurl=http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I1d/default.aspx%3Fsection%3Dresults&docid=jJnPgVbji6mfUM&imgurl=http://webperso.mediom.qc.ca/~steeve21/I1d/I_Distribution.jpg&w=904&h=558&ei=ZFccT_CxMeOwiQL317CxCA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=516&sig=100319921593858655768&page=1&tbnh=121&tbnw=196&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0&tx=76&ty=89 . Croatians brought you civilization and the Greeks poor Serb interlopers barbarians still have those deranged criminal thieving tendencies. Just look at their barbarian criminality of the 1990s on unarmed children ,women ,men civilians never seem to learn anything.

Duh, you think maybe because they are all slavs and Kosovars descend from the Illyrians? Nothing ground breaking about this study. If serbs and Croats are more related, then it's terrible how serb chetniks kill their own relatives in Croatia and Bosnia, at 3 different points within last 100 years. Mostly not on the front lines, but by attacking sleeping villages, looting, raping, and killing in the middle of the night while their men were on the front lines defending their country.

Croats & Serbs with similar DNA. I don't think so... To compare the 2 as equals is utter nonsense and stupity.

Of course Albanians don't have similarities with slavic people,they are the descendants of the ancient Illyrians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

Most interesting of the whole article is: The national name Albania is derived from Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by Ptolemy about 150 A.D.
From what we know from the old Balkan populations territories (Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians), Albanian language is spoken in the same region where Illyrian was spoken in ancient times.
Many of what remain as attested words to Illyrian have an Albanian explanation and also a number of Illyrian lexical items (toponyms, hydronyms, oronyms, anthroponyms, etc.) have been linked to Albanian.

Also if you don't know the origin of the name Aleksander here is the explanation from old Gheg dialect. "A-le-ksi-ander" any Albanian kid in the elementary school can tell you that it means "Born as a dream". Cities such as Ulqin(Ulcinj) Shkup(Skopje) Nish and many more have Albanian meaning. You all know that these 3 cities in particular are among the ancient ones.

while Kosovo Albanians have the fewest similarities with the others,” says Forensics Medicine Institute’s Dr Zlatko Jakovski.

We similarities with our own kind only. Wish they had included Albania in this research, so it will show that K-Albos are the same people with A-Albos and we are unique in Europe, even with language(only one tree , and that is old Indo-Europen language that no one else speaks it in Europe).

K Damir, had they included Turkish DNA in the test they would have shown that Albs are recent immigrants who arrived with the Turkish army. The Illyrians are a long dead race, who are spinning in their graves at the thought that Albos claim to be their descendants.

Where is Leonidas today?
The reason Greece declined to participate is due to the large number of non-Greeks that live in Greece. Oh, I forgot... Greece claims that all Greeks are pure Greek.

Illyrian blood was all over the Balkans and both Croats and Serbs were calling themselves Illyrian long before the Germans and Austrians started putting the notion that Albanians were Illyrians in their heads. The Austrians didn't like either the Illyrian movement among Croats nor the Pan-Slavic one. They saw it as a threat if the Croats, Serbs and others worked together, so that's why they suppressed that and came up with the Albanians are Illyrians push.

To Nelli Canada.

Yes. Albanians seem to be descendant of Illyrians after all. This is what study done by Swiss based genetic research IGENEA suggests. This was disputed in the past, as many believed that Albanians are descendant of Thracians.
While dominant Albanian gene is Illyrian ( 30%), they are still less Illyrs then Bosnian Muslims ( 40% Illyrian ) and Croats ( 34% Illyrian ). No surprise there as one of the biggest ancient Illyrian settlements was near today's Zagreb, for example.

Here is part of the study relevant to Balkans, on Bosnian site.

http://www.bosniafacts.info/web/genetic_makeup_of_the_balkans.php

It's interesting that dominant gene in Macedonians is "Antic Macedonian" ( 30% ).
Slovenia is Teutonic - surprise, surprise.
This is Bosnian site so it took only data about the people from former Yu. Many here mentioned Greece...
Here is more data taken from the same source (IGENEA)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHcK790GcaY

Greeks truly are Greeks ( 35% ) while Bulgarians are 49% Thracians.
In Serbia and in Montenegro Slavic gene is most dominant one.

Was Crngora part of this test, or they were excluded in purpose ,so as not to embarrass Serbs, since they have no similarities?

Again poor Serbs want to be Croatians it is good but DNA speaks for its self our descendents live and are Scandinavians moved their after the last ice age [link] . Croatians brought you civilization and the Greeks poor Serb interlopers barbarians still have those deranged criminal thieving tendencies. Just look at their barbarian criminality of the 1990s on unarmed children ,women ,men civilians never seem to learn anything.
(Lenard, 22 January 2012 20:11)

LOL So let me see if I understand you. According to your "logic" (and I use quotes because no sane individual can take you for more than a village idiot), Croats are somehow Scandinavians who one day went out for a walk and suddenly got lost in the Balkans and never decided to go home. Within that time period they apparently became Slavs considering the language they speak and the customs they have.

Even if that were true, it's a bit rich for you to say that Croats brought civilization when the so-called Scandinavian Croats now speak a Slavic language completely identical to Serbs. I must say Lenard, your Scandinavian Croats have had a horrible track record avoiding assimilation and acculturation by those lesser races around them. Obviously whatever "civilization" Croats brought was certainly not comprehenbible grammar as your linguistic butchery shows once again.

You're a shining example of the dangers of mixing alcohol and drugs :)

Most interesting of the whole article is: The national name Albania is derived from Albanoi, an Illyrian tribe mentioned by Ptolemy about 150 A.D.
(Nelli_Canada, 22 January 2012 19:49)

Perhaps. If you believe that. Nice that you referenced one opinionated theory in Wikipedia. Too bad you didn't scroll down a little further to note the counterargument:

"Although the Illyrian tribe of the Albanoi and the place Albanopolis could be located near Krujë, nothing proves a relation of this tribe to the Albanians, whose name appears for the first time in the eleventh century in Byzantine sources"

So unfortunately you can't make the argument that Albanians today are direct descendents of a long-dead race of people.

As for your argument of the original name for "Aleksander", again, too bad you couldn't reference that in Wikipedia, which, oh look, gives you this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksander

Maybe your theory works in Albania, but the rest of the world thinks differently :)

Both Serbs and Croats have known this for long enough. Bam bam may be tearing his hair out at this truth, but thats the way it is, you people are just catholosised Serbs, when it comes down to it you are just like us ;)

"The Macedonian scientists received samples and data from most of the Balkan countries, except from Greece, who refused to take part in the project."

I wonder if it has to do with them not recognizing their name or if they don't want people to know that they are most similar to Turks

In a previous study it was shown that the Roma have the most similar DNA with the Serbs as opposed to other groups in the region.

The study is not surprising considering that "Croats" are Serbs who don't know any better.

@TP, no it doesn't, the Serbs existed as a people and as a nation long before the Croats did.

@Lenard, Croats like you make me laugh when you begin to fool yourselves into thinking that you are of some ancient race of people, that isn't the case, most of your routes lie with us Serbs, like it or not.

Oh no! What's Lenard and Jadranka Kosor gonna do now?????

Tell us something we don't know :)

They have the fewest similarities so they try to take our body parts??

Doing this test among Serbs,Croats,Bosnians,Bulgarians is so stupid .

A SLAV IS A SLAV IS A SLAV simple as that

And Greece being involved in such a study/test would be CATASTROPHIC !
because it would show much Slavic and Albanian DNA


PelasgianIllyrianAlbanian

How come the Greeks were so proud of their feta cheese DNA and lineage which they were all too eager to show off and bore the world with.
Their non participation in this "highly credible" scientific study leads me to wondering that they might could have some unwanted skeletons in their DNA that they rather not parade around like they do their feta cheese. What say you?

No surprise, Today's Macedonians are Bulgarians.. As for the Serb and Croat, take away religion Serb and Croats are the same..

Surely Vardar Macedonia will be one with Bulgaria again..

'...you people are just catholosised Serbs, when it comes down to it you are just like us...'
(SCP UK)

True, and Serbs are also Orthodoxified Croats.

It works both ways.

This is not the first genetic study undertaken on the Balkan people and Europeans in general. These studies are not conducted for political or racist purposes, as seem to be the general understanding of the participants here, rather it is to help a variety of other fields of science like medicine (hereditary diseases). Of course there are other ramifications stemming from them that help historians put some perspective to the wealth of information deriving from archeology and linguistics.

The findings of this study are not surprising and need not be an issue of renewed divide between people (humans). Instead the study underlines the commonalities of the southern Slavs and their blood relations. It doesn't say that Serbs are Croats or vice versa. Nor does it say anything about religion because that is a personal belief that has nothing to do with nationality. Instead of reflecting on the ignorance that caused the Ustasha to kill Serbs and other minorities during WW2, or Serbs killing of Croats and Bosnians, most people here still love to continue the cycle of hatred and violence between brothers who share one blood, language, territory and history. This is backward and ignorant.

Since brothers can't seem to agree, what chance is there to find common grounds with the other non-Slavs in the Balkans, namely the Albanians? If you don't understand and recognize a brother, how can you recognize your neighbor, who will be your neighbor for many, many centuries to come? Has anyone read a genetic study by non Balkan scientists (and there are plenty published on he internet)? Is it more convenient for some of you to slender than to search for knowledge and understanding? What if you learn that genetics, linguistics and archeology state that southern Slavs are also related to the Albanians, who by the way, are the central carriers of the E-V13 and J2b haplogroups? These have been unanimously identified by geneticists as the originators of Indo - Europeans that moved to Europe from Africa at the end of the Ice Age, to colonize the continent and bring with them agriculture. All people of Europe are their descendants except the Irish, Basques, Finns, Hungarians and least of all the Turks.

Deep reflection and reconciliation is the only way out, if the people of the Balkans do not want to burry anymore of their children! Ignorance is not bliss! It kills.

(Those of you are confused, please don't bother to make a racist comment on me cause I am not from the Balkans!)

Duh, they're the same people! What next? "Bosniaks" and "Montenegrins" are the same too? The horror! :)

"Again poor Serbs want to be Croatians it is good but DNA speaks for its self"
(Lenard, 22 January 2012 20:11)

Reading skills seems to be a problem for some people. It's not about Serbs wanna be Croatians. These results of these DNS analysis of the people living in the balkans show that Serbs and Croats are most similar - which means they are of the same origin. Knowing that their languages is the same, the region they live in is adjacent, it cannot be surprising for anyone.

Research done in Macedonia, most likely by serb/slavs 'researchers',,,research done elsewhere without political influence shows Albanians are the first settlers in the Balkans, possibly in the whole continent, have people wondered why are slavs speak same language as Russians or similar?? Yet Albanians speak a language that is different to others, the silly theory that Albanians came with the ottomans, can't believe people still go along with that silly theory, ask yourself why would we travel with the Ottomans to Balkans only to war with them once arrived, you think it was some bizare conspiracy that once arrived in the Balkans we fight the Ottomans to make the world believe that we are not related? Albanians have never been related to Turks in Genetics or language, it is just a desperate theory developed by Serbs trying to claim they have been in the Balkans before Albanians. Research shows first settlement to have been in Kosova and dna research shows it was Albanians..........As for Greece not taking part in the research, not surprise considering most modern greeks have no relations to Ancient Greeks.

Thanks, Sreten, for the links.

I wonder what the DNA similarity between Albanians and people in Sicily is like. Just like the 'Illyrian' theory, there's another theory that claims Albanians came from Sicily, originally. Evil tongues could say that this would explain why there's so much mafia in Kosovo :)

Beyond all this silly (and frankly: embarrassing) shouting and bragging about the "genetic purity" and superiority/inferiority of one Balkan race over another lies a very simple and unequivocal SCIENTIFIC argument: except for Albanians, ALL other nations of the former Yugoslavia share the same common lineage, genetic foundation and biological, cultural AND historical traits.

ALL of them. From Slovenia to Macedonia, and all in between.

Whether this study is sufficient for our (now merrily divorced) tribes to be called "brothers", I doubt very much, but it certainly proves beyond any doubt that they are all very, very close relatives. And if there is anything that conclusively proves their inextricably close kinship, it is their ability to mutually hate each other with passionate and wildly irrational abandon.

If the genetic variations found in this study prove anything, it is NOT that different Yugo-Slavic "tribes" came from different European bloodlines and genomes or from the different parts of the continent; the study merely shows how much time each segment of our common, ancestral people had spent under different foreign yokes and foreign occupations and how intensely it had mixed its primordial Slavic blood with that of its foreign masters over the centuries. The "Teutonic" gene found in Slovenians does not prove much except that the Langobard/Frankic/German upper class which dominated much of the Slovenian history liked what it saw in indigenous population and preferred to sow its wild oats (genetic material) in Slovenia rather than go back to Germany and procreate there (and frankly, who could blame them -- even Donald Trump and Roger Federer prefer to have Slovenian wives)

Likewise, the presence of Turkish / Near Eastern genes in Bosnian population is rather self-explanatory, just as is the presence of Bulgarian genetic material - which, after all, is not significantly different from Serbian - in Macedonian blood.

To those who had lived in Yugoslavia when it was a happy and multiethnic community, the results of this study should come as no surprise. However, to those still claiming that their particular tribe came from the mythical "Aryan" mists of ancient Persia or from the frozen Walhallas of the land of the Norse, this will most likely come as a huge shock. I hope they get as rude an awakening as possible.

On Greece not taking part in this 'study', do you think Greece is stupid enough to take part in something that is being controlled by FYROM, it would simply be another chance for FYROM to show off its propogandist tendencies and fuel its irredentist fantasies

Duh, you think maybe because they are all slavs and Kosovars descend from the Illyrians? Nothing ground breaking about this study. If serbs and Croats are more related, then it's terrible how serb chetniks kill their own relatives in Croatia and Bosnia, at 3 different points within last 100 years. Mostly not on the front lines, but by attacking sleeping villages, looting, raping, and killing in the middle of the night while their men were on the front lines defending their country.
(King Damir, 22 January 2012 14:23)

Is that the bed time story your mamma and your daddy raised you on?
Next time you get that hate spewing feeling,take your hateful poisoned ooze somewhere and bury it deep. Consider whether or not It's time for you and those that think like you to wake up from your dark dreams and fears--or y'all will continue to live in the hell of your mind that y'all created. Wake up, and let the dead bury their dead!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbYSbaInp04&feature=related

Serbs, Croats “have most similar DNA”

That's more proof there that these folks been at each others
throats for quiet some time.

"K Damir, had they included Turkish DNA in the test they would have shown that Albs are recent immigrants who arrived with the Turkish army. The Illyrians are a long dead race, who are spinning in their graves at the thought that Albos claim to be their descendants.
(Michael Thomas, 22 January 2012 15:46) "

Actually, DNA tests on Albanians were done long ago, and showed they are an ancient Indo-European people who have been living in the Balkans for millenia.

Huma DNA and DNA from apes and other primates are for 97% identical.
Can you imagine the little differences in DNA between people? That is what this study proves. Better to focus on differences in cognitive capacities which for a large part is determined by culture.

What a surprising result. Nobody would have guessed that, right? Even though Montenegrin population wasn't included, I guess they have most similar DNA with Serbs and Croatians, too.

i would believe this research if it was from outside balkan. since it is done in macedonia, i have no reason to believe that the results are anything but corrupt. croats descent from illyrians as bosnians do together with albanians. serbs may be partially illyrian but that doesnt change anything on their deep rooted slavic culture. unfortunately, the conflict will remain for centuries. from a dardanian citizen, prishtina.

How is it surprising that Serbs west of Drina, that have adopted different religions, have similar DNA to Serbs east of Drina?

Those on this forum who are determined to prove that their origins are somehow apart and exclusive only prove one thing, that fascism is still alive and kicking in the Balkans.
The rascist theories peddled by the likes of Nelli, Lenard and co. are frankly sickening. Hitler would be proud. Ordinary people couldn't care less about the Illyrians, Aryans, Thracians or any other pseudo tribe that may or may not have existed. Ordinary people want peace, jobs, and a life free of violence, ethnic hatred, and crime. Concentrate on that and the world would be a better place.

"The Macedonian scientists received samples and data from most of the Balkan countries, except from Greece, who refused to take part in the project. "

Because only the Arvanitas are different from the Slavic Ic Ski and Os prefixes. Otherwise we have 340 million near identical Slavs, some thinking that their roots start in Kosovo and end by North Korea lol.


Truth is coming out slowly but surely.

That's why they hate each other so much. Some family members can't get along at all. I see more problems in the future.

Why Montenegrians are not incuded in the study. Montenegrian nation does not exist. There are Croats, Albanians and Bosnians. They should study for DNA from all parts of Albania. North Albanian Catholics shows that Albanians are 100% Illirians. Even today, they have Illyrian custums. That the reason they are attacket by Slavs and and not supported by Albanian muslims.

Are you telling me Bulgarians from FYROM and Bulgarians from Bulgaria are very similar, I would have never thought of that......LOL

The Serbo-Bulgarian conflict, inapired by Austrian intrigue was the greatest disaster that befell the Balkans for the last 137 years. It is so obvious that the Macedonians and the Bulgarians were one nation, and so were the Serbs and the Montenegrins. Foreign inspired anti-Bulgarian propaganda in Macedonia and anti-Serbian propaganda in Montenegro caused among all other harm, a deep suspicion between Belgrade and Sofia. A true Serbo-Bulgarian reconciliation, on the basis of the historical truth and mutual apology (both sides have a lot to appologiuze)will change dramatically the fabric of the whole region.

"So unfortunately you can't make the argument that Albanians today are direct descendents of a long-dead race of people."

Since you happen to know so much about the Illyrians why don't you share with us how and when that ancient race of people ceased to exist?

P.S. It's common knowledge that Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information.

Macedonian Feta cheese is creamier than either Greek or Bulgarian Feta cheese definitely making it tastier. This makes the dryer Greek Feta more crumbly and better suited for salads.

(Truth Speaker, 23 January 2012 03:10)

Considering that Albanians contributed NOTHING in ancient art, science or religion, it is hard to believe that they were the first inhabitants of the entire European continent.
For people who claim to be more ancient than the Greeks, and claiming uniqueness of their language, I must say, for a civilization that old, it is difficult to comprehend that not a single word of Albanian language is used elsewhere.
Greek, Latin, Arabic, Hebrew, Persian, Chinese, Slavic, Sanskrit..etc - at least few words of all of these languages are found in almost every language in the world.
Yet...which of the words that we use have been contributed by the ancient Albanian civilization and ancient Albanian language?

This is not a provocation, I would genuinely like to know.

For those of you supporting the Albanian/Illyrian relationship. Just what Illyrian DNA was used to compare "current Albanian DNA" to "extinct Illyrian DNA" ???????????

'@TP, no it doesn't, the Serbs existed as a people and as a nation long before the Croats did.'
(SCP UK)

As a nation, yes, but as a people - a tribe - then no.

I believe that the Serbs and Croats, much like my English ancestors, the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, came south to the Balkans as separate tribes or clans of the same nation.

As usual, it was outside medieval powers such as the Franks and Byzantines who interfered and created the divisions that still plague Yugoslavs today.

To some degree, this lines up with the data about Slavic haplogroups posted on Wikipedia. There, you will find that South Slavs are largely divided into two main categories: R1a1a, which is common amongst all Slavic ethnic groups located in central and eastern Europe, plus Slovenes and northwestern Croats; and I2a1b1 (or I2a2), a unique "Dinaric" group centered on the area around Hercegovina that includes Bosnians (all types), Montenegrins, Serbs, Dalmatian Croats, Macedonians, Bulgarians and some Ukranians through a link stretching through Romania and Moldova.

At any rate, the genetic landscape across the Balkans seems a bit complex, but that's not much of a surprise. It would be interesting to see a matrix comparing people from various regions in the former Yugoslavia -- Serbs with Montenegrins (the latter group is conspicuously absent from the Macedonian study), Croats from Zagreb with Croats from Mostar, Slovenes with Macedonians, and so on.

Huma DNA and DNA from apes and other primates are for 97% identical.
Can you imagine the little differences in DNA between people? That is what this study proves. Better to focus on differences in cognitive capacities which for a large part is determined by culture.
(Joe A, 23 January 2012 10:38)

Exactly what I was thinking. What is the method and criteria? They chose some genes (which ones?), took some samples from people (which people?villagers that have not moved from Serbia/Croatia for hundreds of years or Croatian tourists in Serbia?) in different countries, put the samples in the machines (which are slow I hear, even though there are much faster machines that can sequence the DNA of a human in a matter of days, but then how do you justify 6 years of salary?), and got some numbers. Now these numbers I suspect say things like, 25% of DNA samples collected from Serbs have gene A, 19% has gene B, 5% has gene C, etc etc. Then, 24% of samples collected from Croats has gene A, 22% has gene B, 15% has gene C, etc etc. Then they came up with some formula to compute similarity from those numbers (how? there are many ways you can compute a similarity value). That formula produced some numbers: (Serbs, Croats)= 21%; (Serbs, Albanians)= 20.5%; (Serbs, Macedonians)= 20.6%. Therefore Serbs and Croats are more similar. Not sure about these genetics studies. At every step of the way there is a ton of information lost. It is obvious, when you want to reduce relationship between two sequences of 100 thousand genes to only one number. A very lossy transformation. One needs to really be an expert to understand its significance and interpret results correctly. Giving them to general public (without details on the method of course) will of course produce crap about races and illyrians etc etc.

Hey Lenard, why aren't you going along with the Poglavnik's lies written to his master Hitler that the Croats are not actually Slavs, but are instead descendants of the Germanic Goths? It sure pays to kiss der Fuehrer's arse, no?

Everyone knew that anyway,when are montenegrins goin to realize they have similiar dna with northern albanians,they sure look alike

This is science. Science doesn't care about religion or politics. It's odd how two people whom are essentially the same people can diverge so much. Croats and Serbs look alike yet they treat each other like different races.

Everyone knew that anyway,when are montenegrins goin to realize they have similiar dna with northern albanians,they sure look alike
(bill, 23 January 2012 03:20)

No, maybe you were mislead by Djukanovic and Thaci looking like brothers :)

The differences are based on selfish arrogance, bigotry and ignorance - not on actual ethnicity.

That is the reasonable conclusion.

The voting for neighbouring countries in the Eurovision Song Contest is strong evidence that most people are aware of this and are not overly persuaded by nationalist rhetoric.