Serbs to consider postponing referendum

@Ardi Arsllani;

You obviously suffer from a short memory span. Given that 'Kosova' violently seceded from Serbia, what makes you think the Serbs of northern Kosmet can't peacefully secede from your artificial creation. A case of the pot calling the kettle black me thinks.

Very likely the minister will tell these guys "Listen let Serbia get the candidate status first and then do whatever you like. In other words suspend the so-called referendum for the time being, EU will see it good will gesture from the Serbs and then accuse Kosovo Albanians for not being flexible in the coming talks..."

According to Bogdanović, the referendum is a waste of time and resources because it would only prove what the entire world already knows – that northern Kosovo Serbs do not recognize the Kosovo institutions.

Actually it will prove to entire world that these municipalities are in Kosova and not Serbia, and they are trying to secede if they can get away with it.

Have they recieved an invitation or arrest warrants after yesterdays headlines. Interesting news!!!

Just what I thought. PREDAJ!!!

The Serbs and their endless referendums...it's a real tragicomedy

It would seem that the Serbs north of Mitrovica will never accept rule by Albanians, while the Albanians south of Mitrovica will equally surely never accept rule again from Belgrade.

Aren't these the best prerequisites for a really stable, strong border?

Of course, the EU would have great difficulties accepting secession of North Kosovo due to problems of secession in Bosnia, while the Russians will only accept it if they can score some points against the West...

"... what makes you think the Serbs of northern Kosmet can't peacefully secede from your artificial creation. ...

(PEN, 19 January 2012 14:51)

Kfor/NATO.

Just what I thought. PREDAJ!!!
(USA United States of Albania, 19 January 2012 19:23)

How many times do you have to be told that all of this is just going around and around in circles and leading the Albanians nowhere?

If it’s not in the interests of Moscow it is not going to happen.

It just amazes me very time all you read Pristina states “we are not going to this or that conference under 1244…..” but in the end they just do that. This referendum was to make a point… get it?? Make a point.

Now as far as people like Dacic are concerned he is worried that there will be no bonuses for him from the EU. The pure facts are out in that the EU is f…. and no amount of spin is going to “kiss it and make it better’.

I have no idea what you Albanians are joyous about because you lose either way. Just wait when this current Recession starts to bite in that region – this summer should be a real hot spot in old Pristina when civil unrest takes a hold. In fact watch all of Europe, but the best is always saved for last, watch the US as they democratically use force with freedom loving batons on their citizens and then blame Milosevic opps Al Quaeda opps Saddam Hussein, opps, who else is left; oh yes North Koreans, Iran.

"According to Bogdanović, the referendum is a waste of time and resources because it would only prove what the entire world already knows – that northern Kosovo Serbs do not recognize the Kosovo institutions"

The problem is the whole world know it but doesn't want to admit it.

"... what makes you think the Serbs of northern Kosmet can't peacefully secede from your artificial creation. ...

(PEN, 19 January 2012 14:51)

Kfor/NATO.
(Amer, 19 January 2012 16:29)

OK, could you give any moral reason as to why KSerbs should live under Prishtina control if they don't want it?

As for KFOR/NATO - everything can change. See, in 1918 Czechoslovakia was given the Sudets by big powers, but just in 20 years the same big powers agreed to Hitler's capture of the Sudets on the base that ethnic Germans lived there.

Very likely the minister will tell these guys "Listen let Serbia get the candidate status first and then do whatever you like. In other words suspend the so-called referendum for the time being, EU will see it good will gesture from the Serbs and then accuse Kosovo Albanians for not being flexible in the coming talks..."
(EA, 19 January 2012 11:06)

You are not a million miles off in that analysis ;)

It just amazes me very time all you read Pristina states “we are not going to this or that conference under 1244…..” but in the end they just do that. This referendum was to make a point… get it?? Make a point.
(sj, 19 January 2012 22:25)

Like the point they made with the Russian passports ? You are correct; in case anybody had doubts about how much Russia cares for Serbs, they clear got the point after the Russian passports story :)
----------

Now as far as people like Dacic are concerned he is worried that there will be no bonuses for him from the EU. The pure facts are out in that the EU is f…. and no amount of spin is going to “kiss it and make it better’.
(sj, 19 January 2012 22:25)

You are right dear. Hopefully the majority of Serbs thinks like you and Albanians in Kosovo don’t have to deal with headaches like Serbia becoming an EU member.
----------

I have no idea what you Albanians are joyous about because you lose either way. Just wait when this current Recession starts to bite in that region – this summer should be a real hot spot in old Pristina when civil unrest takes a hold.
(sj, 19 January 2012 22:25)

Sj, I think we are not doing a better job to make Albanians feel miserable. We need to get more creative. Any idea ?
----------

In fact watch all of Europe, but the best is always saved for last, watch the US as they democratically use force with freedom loving batons on their citizens and then blame Milosevic opps Al Quaeda opps Saddam Hussein, opps, who else is left; oh yes North Koreans, Iran.
(sj, 19 January 2012 22:25)

Hmmmm, when did Milosevic , Sadam or the North-Korean guy went with batons to the US ?! I missed that news – as usual, the Western media keeps us in the dark of these interesting developments.

Just as EA already stated, Serbs just play political games with big mouth. Now they will postpone referendum until after election. Germany will honor Serbia's so-called "cooperation" and will give in. What a sharade..

Well said, sj.

Just as EA already stated, Serbs just play political games with big mouth. Now they will postpone referendum until after election. Germany will honor Serbia's so-called "cooperation" and will give in. What a sharade..
(Berk., 19 January 2012 22:30)

EU are smarter than you think. Just because you are a candidate member means nothing, ask Turkey, they've been at it since 90s. Candidateship to nowhere.

Sincerely,

You, conveniently, are forgetting the rest of the story. What happened to Germany as a result of their brutal aggression at the end of WW II? You would like not to remember since it only brings back recent memories of Serbia being crushed for its aggression against its neighbors during the 1990's. Or, does History end for you at 1939.
(The Count of Kosova, 20 January 2012 07:31)

If Germany had restricted its ambitions by the Sudets, it would still posessess the Sudets.

"The upcoming elections in Serbia were also discussed during the meeting. Northern Kosovo mayors told Bogdanović that in line with the Constitution, the elections in Kosovo should be called at the same time as in other parts of central Serbia"


Well, this guy appears to have forgotten that Resolution 1244 is still in force in Kosovo and elections in Kosovo are called in line with Resolution 1244 not in line with the Serbian, Albanian or Zimbabwe's constitution.

Kosovo serb leaders are now like Serbia leaders and are working for kosovo independence

As for KFOR/NATO - everything can change. See, in 1918 Czechoslovakia was given the Sudets by big powers, but just in 20 years the same big powers agreed to Hitler's capture of the Sudets on the base that ethnic Germans lived there.
(aaayyy, 19 January 2012 17:09)

aaayyy,

You, conveniently, are forgetting the rest of the story. What happened to Germany as a result of their brutal aggression at the end of WW II? You would like not to remember since it only brings back recent memories of Serbia being crushed for its aggression against its neighbors during the 1990's. Or, does History end for you at 1939.

You, conveniently, are forgetting the rest of the story. What happened to Germany as a result of their brutal aggression at the end of WW II? You would like not to remember since it only brings back recent memories of Serbia being crushed for its aggression against its neighbors during the 1990's. Or, does History end for you at 1939.
(The Count of Kosova, 20 January 2012 07:31)

Actualy my post wasn't about Germany, but about big powers ability to change their stance.

Well how much does the US or EU care for your Albanians? How many industries have they moved to Kosovo? How has their standard of living improved in the last 12 years? Why force these negations on the Albanians with Belgrade?
(sj, 20 January 2012 23:29)

I’ve said it many times; none at all. US/EU/Russia don’t care about Serbs and/or Albanians. But some people continue to have illusions about that.
----------

The Russians are there and will NEVER and let’s hear that one agin NEVER allow NATO/EU/EULEX/EFLUX/DULUX to lift a finger.
(sj, 20 January 2012 23:29)

Of course Russians are in Russia and will NEVER, and let’s hear that one again, NEVER allow NATO/EU/EULEX/EFLUX/DULUX to lift a finger. And then what ?! NATO/EU/EULEX/EFLUX/DULUX will continue to do whatever they want.
----------

The difference between me and your lot, with some very few but brave exceptions, I call a spade a spade and fear not criticizing anyone at all whereas you guys even defend a person like Thaci. Dacic is a man of little to no principles like most western politicians who would sell out his entire family for a Euro. He talks about the EU as if it’s the Holy Grail, but at night visits Milosevic’s grave and people like that I would not wipe my dirty boots on.
As far as the EU is concerned you must live in the US as it’s the only place where little outside news reaches their people, but I’ll tell you. The EU is FINISHED and dying of an agonizing death with it now entering a deeper recession than the one of 2008. We have civil unrest in most parts of Europe due to poorer and poorer living conditions.
AS I have said to a relative in Kragurevac, the EU is falling apart but Serb politicians are still keen to have their application to join the club approved. We both had a good laugh.
(sj, 20 January 2012 23:29)

I’m happy we agree. That’s why I said before that hopefully the majority of the Serbs think link you and so the Albanians in Kosovo don’t have to deal with complications like Serbia becoming an EU member.
----------

I can’t think of anything beyond what is occurring now – I don’t think you can make a people any more miserable – caged like animals with having to travel “around the world” toleave. Then the EU’s idea of returning Albanians to Kosovo as their applications for refugee status is no longer valid (about 300 000 so far but my sources say it’s probably as high as 450,000)
Ruled by thugs who would not blink in killing anyone who objects to their rule. Liivng standards that would make Nigeria look good.
No I cannt think of anything.
(sj, 20 January 2012 23:29)

I know, but we have to try. Because with all of the above, they still think they are better than being in the same country with Serbia.
----------

I did not say that Milosevic,,Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, North Korean or Iran went into the US with batons. It’s what the US authorities will do to its citizens if they get to uppity for their own good and then they will try and blame the forces of evil and darkness.
(sj, 20 January 2012 23:29)

But how can they blame the forces of evil for using the batons if the forces of evil are not physically in the US with the batons. You are now getting confusing, sj....

icj1, 20 January 2012 04:00)

“Like the point they made with the Russian passports ? You are correct; in case anybody had doubts about how much Russia cares for Serbs, they clear got the point after the Russian passports story”
Well how much does the US or EU care for your Albanians? How many industries have they moved to Kosovo? How has their standard of living improved in the last 12 years? Why force these negations on the Albanians with Belgrade?
The Russians are there and will NEVER and let’s hear that one agin NEVER allow NATO/EU/EULEX/EFLUX/DULUX to lift a finger. Can you give a guarantee that your allies in Wahington and Burssels will not sell you out lock stock and barrel??????

“You are right dear. Hopefully the majority of Serbs thinks like you and Albanians in Kosovo don’t have to deal with headaches like Serbia becoming an EU member. “

The difference between me and your lot, with some very few but brave exceptions, I call a spade a spade and fear not criticizing anyone at all whereas you guys even defend a person like Thaci. Dacic is a man of little to no principles like most western politicians who would sell out his entire family for a Euro. He talks about the EU as if it’s the Holy Grail, but at night visits Milosevic’s grave and people like that I would not wipe my dirty boots on.
As far as the EU is concerned you must live in the US as it’s the only place where little outside news reaches their people, but I’ll tell you. The EU is FINISHED and dying of an agonizing death with it now entering a deeper recession than the one of 2008. We have civil unrest in most parts of Europe due to poorer and poorer living conditions.
AS I have said to a relative in Kragurevac, the EU is falling apart but Serb politicians are still keen to have their application to join the club approved. We both had a good laugh.

“Sj, I think we are not doing a better job to make Albanians feel miserable. We need to get more creative. Any idea ?”

I can’t think of anything beyond what is occurring now – I don’t think you can make a people any more miserable – caged like animals with having to travel “around the world” toleave. Then the EU’s idea of returning Albanians to Kosovo as their applications for refugee status is no longer valid (about 300 000 so far but my sources say it’s probably as high as 450,000)
Ruled by thugs who would not blink in killing anyone who objects to their rule. Liivng standards that would make Nigeria look good.
No I cannt think of anything.

“Hmmmm, when did Milosevic , Sadam or the North-Korean guy went with batons to the US ?! I missed that news – as usual, the Western media keeps us in the dark of these interesting developments.”
I did not say that Milosevic,,Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, North Korean or Iran went into the US with batons. It’s what the US authorities will do to its citizens if they get to uppity for their own good and then they will try and blame the forces of evil and darkness.

According to Bogdanović, the referendum is a waste of time and resources because it would only prove what the entire world already knows – that northern Kosovo Serbs do not recognize the Kosovo institutions.

Actually it will prove to entire world that these municipalities are in Kosova and not Serbia, and they are trying to secede if they can get away with it.

Just what I thought. PREDAJ!!!

@Ardi Arsllani;

You obviously suffer from a short memory span. Given that 'Kosova' violently seceded from Serbia, what makes you think the Serbs of northern Kosmet can't peacefully secede from your artificial creation. A case of the pot calling the kettle black me thinks.

Very likely the minister will tell these guys "Listen let Serbia get the candidate status first and then do whatever you like. In other words suspend the so-called referendum for the time being, EU will see it good will gesture from the Serbs and then accuse Kosovo Albanians for not being flexible in the coming talks..."

"... what makes you think the Serbs of northern Kosmet can't peacefully secede from your artificial creation. ...

(PEN, 19 January 2012 14:51)

Kfor/NATO.
(Amer, 19 January 2012 16:29)

OK, could you give any moral reason as to why KSerbs should live under Prishtina control if they don't want it?

As for KFOR/NATO - everything can change. See, in 1918 Czechoslovakia was given the Sudets by big powers, but just in 20 years the same big powers agreed to Hitler's capture of the Sudets on the base that ethnic Germans lived there.

Have they recieved an invitation or arrest warrants after yesterdays headlines. Interesting news!!!

The Serbs and their endless referendums...it's a real tragicomedy

Just what I thought. PREDAJ!!!
(USA United States of Albania, 19 January 2012 19:23)

How many times do you have to be told that all of this is just going around and around in circles and leading the Albanians nowhere?

If it’s not in the interests of Moscow it is not going to happen.

It just amazes me very time all you read Pristina states “we are not going to this or that conference under 1244…..” but in the end they just do that. This referendum was to make a point… get it?? Make a point.

Now as far as people like Dacic are concerned he is worried that there will be no bonuses for him from the EU. The pure facts are out in that the EU is f…. and no amount of spin is going to “kiss it and make it better’.

I have no idea what you Albanians are joyous about because you lose either way. Just wait when this current Recession starts to bite in that region – this summer should be a real hot spot in old Pristina when civil unrest takes a hold. In fact watch all of Europe, but the best is always saved for last, watch the US as they democratically use force with freedom loving batons on their citizens and then blame Milosevic opps Al Quaeda opps Saddam Hussein, opps, who else is left; oh yes North Koreans, Iran.

Just as EA already stated, Serbs just play political games with big mouth. Now they will postpone referendum until after election. Germany will honor Serbia's so-called "cooperation" and will give in. What a sharade..

"... what makes you think the Serbs of northern Kosmet can't peacefully secede from your artificial creation. ...

(PEN, 19 January 2012 14:51)

Kfor/NATO.

"According to Bogdanović, the referendum is a waste of time and resources because it would only prove what the entire world already knows – that northern Kosovo Serbs do not recognize the Kosovo institutions"

The problem is the whole world know it but doesn't want to admit it.

Very likely the minister will tell these guys "Listen let Serbia get the candidate status first and then do whatever you like. In other words suspend the so-called referendum for the time being, EU will see it good will gesture from the Serbs and then accuse Kosovo Albanians for not being flexible in the coming talks..."
(EA, 19 January 2012 11:06)

You are not a million miles off in that analysis ;)

As for KFOR/NATO - everything can change. See, in 1918 Czechoslovakia was given the Sudets by big powers, but just in 20 years the same big powers agreed to Hitler's capture of the Sudets on the base that ethnic Germans lived there.
(aaayyy, 19 January 2012 17:09)

aaayyy,

You, conveniently, are forgetting the rest of the story. What happened to Germany as a result of their brutal aggression at the end of WW II? You would like not to remember since it only brings back recent memories of Serbia being crushed for its aggression against its neighbors during the 1990's. Or, does History end for you at 1939.

It would seem that the Serbs north of Mitrovica will never accept rule by Albanians, while the Albanians south of Mitrovica will equally surely never accept rule again from Belgrade.

Aren't these the best prerequisites for a really stable, strong border?

Of course, the EU would have great difficulties accepting secession of North Kosovo due to problems of secession in Bosnia, while the Russians will only accept it if they can score some points against the West...

"The upcoming elections in Serbia were also discussed during the meeting. Northern Kosovo mayors told Bogdanović that in line with the Constitution, the elections in Kosovo should be called at the same time as in other parts of central Serbia"


Well, this guy appears to have forgotten that Resolution 1244 is still in force in Kosovo and elections in Kosovo are called in line with Resolution 1244 not in line with the Serbian, Albanian or Zimbabwe's constitution.

It just amazes me very time all you read Pristina states “we are not going to this or that conference under 1244…..” but in the end they just do that. This referendum was to make a point… get it?? Make a point.
(sj, 19 January 2012 22:25)

Like the point they made with the Russian passports ? You are correct; in case anybody had doubts about how much Russia cares for Serbs, they clear got the point after the Russian passports story :)
----------

Now as far as people like Dacic are concerned he is worried that there will be no bonuses for him from the EU. The pure facts are out in that the EU is f…. and no amount of spin is going to “kiss it and make it better’.
(sj, 19 January 2012 22:25)

You are right dear. Hopefully the majority of Serbs thinks like you and Albanians in Kosovo don’t have to deal with headaches like Serbia becoming an EU member.
----------

I have no idea what you Albanians are joyous about because you lose either way. Just wait when this current Recession starts to bite in that region – this summer should be a real hot spot in old Pristina when civil unrest takes a hold.
(sj, 19 January 2012 22:25)

Sj, I think we are not doing a better job to make Albanians feel miserable. We need to get more creative. Any idea ?
----------

In fact watch all of Europe, but the best is always saved for last, watch the US as they democratically use force with freedom loving batons on their citizens and then blame Milosevic opps Al Quaeda opps Saddam Hussein, opps, who else is left; oh yes North Koreans, Iran.
(sj, 19 January 2012 22:25)

Hmmmm, when did Milosevic , Sadam or the North-Korean guy went with batons to the US ?! I missed that news – as usual, the Western media keeps us in the dark of these interesting developments.

Well said, sj.

Just as EA already stated, Serbs just play political games with big mouth. Now they will postpone referendum until after election. Germany will honor Serbia's so-called "cooperation" and will give in. What a sharade..
(Berk., 19 January 2012 22:30)

EU are smarter than you think. Just because you are a candidate member means nothing, ask Turkey, they've been at it since 90s. Candidateship to nowhere.

Sincerely,

Kosovo serb leaders are now like Serbia leaders and are working for kosovo independence

You, conveniently, are forgetting the rest of the story. What happened to Germany as a result of their brutal aggression at the end of WW II? You would like not to remember since it only brings back recent memories of Serbia being crushed for its aggression against its neighbors during the 1990's. Or, does History end for you at 1939.
(The Count of Kosova, 20 January 2012 07:31)

If Germany had restricted its ambitions by the Sudets, it would still posessess the Sudets.

You, conveniently, are forgetting the rest of the story. What happened to Germany as a result of their brutal aggression at the end of WW II? You would like not to remember since it only brings back recent memories of Serbia being crushed for its aggression against its neighbors during the 1990's. Or, does History end for you at 1939.
(The Count of Kosova, 20 January 2012 07:31)

Actualy my post wasn't about Germany, but about big powers ability to change their stance.

icj1, 20 January 2012 04:00)

“Like the point they made with the Russian passports ? You are correct; in case anybody had doubts about how much Russia cares for Serbs, they clear got the point after the Russian passports story”
Well how much does the US or EU care for your Albanians? How many industries have they moved to Kosovo? How has their standard of living improved in the last 12 years? Why force these negations on the Albanians with Belgrade?
The Russians are there and will NEVER and let’s hear that one agin NEVER allow NATO/EU/EULEX/EFLUX/DULUX to lift a finger. Can you give a guarantee that your allies in Wahington and Burssels will not sell you out lock stock and barrel??????

“You are right dear. Hopefully the majority of Serbs thinks like you and Albanians in Kosovo don’t have to deal with headaches like Serbia becoming an EU member. “

The difference between me and your lot, with some very few but brave exceptions, I call a spade a spade and fear not criticizing anyone at all whereas you guys even defend a person like Thaci. Dacic is a man of little to no principles like most western politicians who would sell out his entire family for a Euro. He talks about the EU as if it’s the Holy Grail, but at night visits Milosevic’s grave and people like that I would not wipe my dirty boots on.
As far as the EU is concerned you must live in the US as it’s the only place where little outside news reaches their people, but I’ll tell you. The EU is FINISHED and dying of an agonizing death with it now entering a deeper recession than the one of 2008. We have civil unrest in most parts of Europe due to poorer and poorer living conditions.
AS I have said to a relative in Kragurevac, the EU is falling apart but Serb politicians are still keen to have their application to join the club approved. We both had a good laugh.

“Sj, I think we are not doing a better job to make Albanians feel miserable. We need to get more creative. Any idea ?”

I can’t think of anything beyond what is occurring now – I don’t think you can make a people any more miserable – caged like animals with having to travel “around the world” toleave. Then the EU’s idea of returning Albanians to Kosovo as their applications for refugee status is no longer valid (about 300 000 so far but my sources say it’s probably as high as 450,000)
Ruled by thugs who would not blink in killing anyone who objects to their rule. Liivng standards that would make Nigeria look good.
No I cannt think of anything.

“Hmmmm, when did Milosevic , Sadam or the North-Korean guy went with batons to the US ?! I missed that news – as usual, the Western media keeps us in the dark of these interesting developments.”
I did not say that Milosevic,,Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, North Korean or Iran went into the US with batons. It’s what the US authorities will do to its citizens if they get to uppity for their own good and then they will try and blame the forces of evil and darkness.

Well how much does the US or EU care for your Albanians? How many industries have they moved to Kosovo? How has their standard of living improved in the last 12 years? Why force these negations on the Albanians with Belgrade?
(sj, 20 January 2012 23:29)

I’ve said it many times; none at all. US/EU/Russia don’t care about Serbs and/or Albanians. But some people continue to have illusions about that.
----------

The Russians are there and will NEVER and let’s hear that one agin NEVER allow NATO/EU/EULEX/EFLUX/DULUX to lift a finger.
(sj, 20 January 2012 23:29)

Of course Russians are in Russia and will NEVER, and let’s hear that one again, NEVER allow NATO/EU/EULEX/EFLUX/DULUX to lift a finger. And then what ?! NATO/EU/EULEX/EFLUX/DULUX will continue to do whatever they want.
----------

The difference between me and your lot, with some very few but brave exceptions, I call a spade a spade and fear not criticizing anyone at all whereas you guys even defend a person like Thaci. Dacic is a man of little to no principles like most western politicians who would sell out his entire family for a Euro. He talks about the EU as if it’s the Holy Grail, but at night visits Milosevic’s grave and people like that I would not wipe my dirty boots on.
As far as the EU is concerned you must live in the US as it’s the only place where little outside news reaches their people, but I’ll tell you. The EU is FINISHED and dying of an agonizing death with it now entering a deeper recession than the one of 2008. We have civil unrest in most parts of Europe due to poorer and poorer living conditions.
AS I have said to a relative in Kragurevac, the EU is falling apart but Serb politicians are still keen to have their application to join the club approved. We both had a good laugh.
(sj, 20 January 2012 23:29)

I’m happy we agree. That’s why I said before that hopefully the majority of the Serbs think link you and so the Albanians in Kosovo don’t have to deal with complications like Serbia becoming an EU member.
----------

I can’t think of anything beyond what is occurring now – I don’t think you can make a people any more miserable – caged like animals with having to travel “around the world” toleave. Then the EU’s idea of returning Albanians to Kosovo as their applications for refugee status is no longer valid (about 300 000 so far but my sources say it’s probably as high as 450,000)
Ruled by thugs who would not blink in killing anyone who objects to their rule. Liivng standards that would make Nigeria look good.
No I cannt think of anything.
(sj, 20 January 2012 23:29)

I know, but we have to try. Because with all of the above, they still think they are better than being in the same country with Serbia.
----------

I did not say that Milosevic,,Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, North Korean or Iran went into the US with batons. It’s what the US authorities will do to its citizens if they get to uppity for their own good and then they will try and blame the forces of evil and darkness.
(sj, 20 January 2012 23:29)

But how can they blame the forces of evil for using the batons if the forces of evil are not physically in the US with the batons. You are now getting confusing, sj....